300pt Tourney team for criticism

[dolemite199]

Below is a tournament team I am wanting to use. Any comments, suggestions, or complaints will be appreciated.

Exp. Firelord (81pts)
Vet. Wasp (37pts)
Rok. Vulture (15pts)
Exp. Bullseye (31pts)
Uni. Nightcrawler (83pts)
Exp. Black Panther (36pts)
Vet. Aim Medic (17pts)

300pts exactly.

Thanks,

[Keleko]

Firelord, Wasp, Black Panther, Bullseye, Vulture, Medic. A "classic" and unoriginal tournament team. No doubt about its strengths. Nightcrawler is the only interesting twist to the generic forumla team. The problem is that lots of people have seen and figured out how to beat this team.

I challenge you to toss all the figures but Nightcrawler and come up with something else.

[dolemite199]

Keleko,

I challenge you to toss all the figures but Nightcrawler and come up with something else.

Be more than happy to try!

However, I choose to create and play with the original team I poated because of the raw power it has. Granted, this team has been done before. I am not being unoriginal when I create and play with this team. A lot of folks on this very site, and others who play HC competitively will agree that this is a very strong team. It uses the most cost effiecent figures in HC to maximum advantage. Just because this strategy has been emplyoed by many others does not make it bad. When you would like to do well at a tournament you should try and increase you chances by selecting the best options available. That is what I have done. I have seen you post on here a lot so I do not need to explain the strenghts and weaknesses of this team build to you. I added nightcrawler because he can ping support and stealth figures quite easily. I have no way to protect him, i.e. barrier, but he is pretty hard to kill anyways. Below is my answer to you challenge. I may even use it in a tournament.

Exp. White Queen (80pts)
Exp. Wasp (33pts)
Exp. Logan (60pts)
Rok. Doombot (27pts)
Vet. Aim Medic (17pts)
Uni. Nightcrawler (83pts)

300pts exactly. Is this more original for you Keleko?

[Keleko]

That's much more interesting. One minor goof, though. That should be V-Logan for 60 pts.

I wasn't saying the original team posted was not powerful. It definitely is. That's why so many people have used very similar teams for so many tournaments. It just doesn't seem like fun using or seeing the same teams over and over. I've yet to play the same team in a tournament, even when I've won with a team.

[AZS]

Originally posted by Keleko
Firelord, Wasp, Black Panther, Bullseye, Vulture, Medic. A "classic" and unoriginal tournament team. No doubt about its strengths. Nightcrawler is the only interesting twist to the generic forumla team. The problem is that lots of people have seen and figured out how to beat this team.

I challenge you to toss all the figures but Nightcrawler and come up with something else.That's just plain rude Keleko. If this is what he wants to play, give him some credit for at least putting night crawler on the team. I challenge you to build a sucessful team based around just nightcrawler, and NOT use Wasp, Black Panther, Bullseye, Vulture or ~any~ medic. I'll also toss in Black Cat, and Doombot as long as we're eliminating all popular figures.
Now, get to work. 300 pts, tournament worthy.

[Random]

ahhh yes, the challenge I myself have been contemplating. a tournament worthy 300 pointer without most of the popular figs, well I've got one that I am hesitant to even post, but I made it up, so I am gonna post it in just a little while and see what you guy's think.

[Keleko]

Originally posted by azs
That's just plain rude Keleko. If this is what he wants to play, give him some credit for at least putting night crawler on the team.

I didn't mean to come across as rude. Sorry if I did. I was trying to stir up some creativity. And, I did give him credit for putting in Nightcrawler by calling it the only interesting part of the lineup.

I challenge you to build a sucessful team based around just nightcrawler, and NOT use Wasp, Black Panther, Bullseye, Vulture or ~any~ medic. I'll also toss in Black Cat, and Doombot as long as we're eliminating all popular figures.
Now, get to work. 300 pts, tournament worthy.

My answer:
Nightcrawler
E-Logan
V-Cyclops
V-Wolfsbane
V-Jean Grey

My so-far favorite X-Menish team. I plan to use it in a my next tournament. It did pretty well in a for-fun game last night, except for the 3 critical misses in a row on my first 3 attacks. I managed to come back from losing Logan and Wolfsbane from that and get ahead in points, but then Magneto managed to hit Nightcrawler, and that was the end of it. (Opposing team - V-Magento, V-Robin, Titania, V-Hawkman, V&E Checkmate Medics)

I don't know if you count V-Jean Grey as a medic or not, but she's X-Men and useful beyond support. I'd be okay with dropping Jean to E and upping Logan to V, though, if she falls under the no medic rule.

[dolemite199]

Azs,

That's just plain rude Keleko. If this is what he wants to play, give him some credit for at least putting night crawler on the team.

Thanks for the support Azs!

Keleko,

I did not feel you were being rude, just a little judgemental is all. I can see you point about the redundant use of Firelord, Wasp, Bullseye, BP, and medic team. It gets old playing it. However, when I am playing at a tournament with others who are min-maxing their teams with power figures, I can only do the same to have a fair chance. Besides, some HC figures are just too good to pass up on in a constructed tournament, i.e. Exp. or Vet. Wasp!

Back to Azs,

You got me thinking about a new team design when you mentioned Black Cat. Below is what I am looking at trying soon.

Uni. Wolverine (64pts)
Vet. Logan (60pts)
Exp. Black Panther (36pts)
Exp. Wasp (33pts)
Exp. Doombot (33pts)
Exp. Black Cat (32pts)
Rok. Scarlet Witch (29pts)
Rok. Hydra Medic (12pts)

Lots of BCF, and lots of PC. Can't really go wrong with that!

[Keleko]

Your opponents will probably hate you. :) I'd replace Logan with Spiral, though, so you wouldn't have duplicate people (Wolverine and Logan together). Then you could get a better medic.

[dolemite199]

Keleko,

The problem with replacing Logan with Spiral is mobility. I would need to squeeze in a TK figure for her to be effective. But, I would definately like to try a team with Vet. Logan and Spiral. Man that is just mean. By the way, I just played a friend of mine with this team and he was a little irritated with the result. I KO'ed his Exp. Ultron with a six BCF attack by Wolverine followed up by a 3/5 flurried BCF attack from Logan. I did not even outwit or PC any rolls. I could probablly lose the Uni. Wolverine and replace him with Spiral. Outwit really is not needed to get ride of dmg reducing super powers with the amount of damage I can dish out, so BP can go. That would free up a space for Jean Grey. Hmm... this is starting to come together.

The main problem with a team like this ranged attackers taking out the taxis. Oh well, it is virtually impossible to make a team that is strong againts all types of strategies. I appreciate the responses. Gets the creative jucies flowing.

[Xavier PhD]

hey dolemite... use whatever team you want! just because the core of that first team has been used by a lot of people doesn't mean you shoudn't use it.

i have never used that combo of fl/bull/bp/wasp before and when (not if) i use it, it will be a very fun team for me because its a new team to me!

i think it is wise to use such a strong core with nightcrawler, because he is too weak to be the main player. nice team dolemite

:p

[dolemite199]

Xavier PhD,

i think it is wise to use such a strong core with nightcrawler, because he is too weak to be the main player. nice team dolemite

Thanks! Nightcrawler is definatley not the main player. However, his role on my first posted team helps shore up the problems that this team has, i.e. stealthed figures. Nightcrawler can ping those stealthed figures safely and get away. Plus he is more efficent at getting to the support based figures because he never stops moving, or has to break away while performing a drive by. Even on an outdoor map without mouch cover, Nightcrawler still has his 18 defense and super senses to fall back on. I have used the first team I posted before, and it works very effiecently.

Azs,

I would love to attend your tournament in Philly, but can't get the days off I need. I would have loved to try this team in a very competitive tournament. I guess I will have to wait until Gen-Con this year.

Everyone,

Thanks for the posts!

[Legacy]

why is wasp so great?

[dolemite199]

Legacy,

why is wasp so great?

The exp. and vet. versions are both free move flyers with an 18 defense. The unique has a 19 def, as well as being a free move flyer. The exp. Wasp is one of the cheapest free move taxi in HC, second to rok. Hawkman. That is why Wasp is so great. You really cannot ask for much more for 33pts. Decent move of 8, astronomical defense, and free move via the Avangers team ability. These are the reason why I feel she is great. Hope that answers your question.

[Spikor]

Originally posted by dolemite199
Legacy,



The exp. and vet. versions are both free move flyers with an 18 defense. The unique has a 19 def, as well as being a free move flyer. The exp. Wasp is the cheapest free move taxi in HC. That is why Wasp is so great. You really cannot ask for much more for 33pts. Decent move of 8, astronomical defense, and free move via the Avangers team ability. These are the reason why I feel she is great. Hope that answers your question.


I'm not gonna argue that Wasp isn't great, 'cause she is. But R-Hawkman is 1 point cheaper, and has free move. His charge is nice too. I realize that I'm now mixing sets, and that it's often considered to be evil. I'm just nitpicking your statement that she's the cheapest Free move taxi. My apologies for even mentioning it. :)

[dolemite199]

Spikor,

You are absolutely correct. I completely over looked him. I have edited my post to reflect this oversight!

[Spikor]

Is mixing legal in the tourney you're playing?

[dolemite199]

Spikor,

Nope. This is Marvel Only. If it had been mixed I would be playing the following.

Exp. Firelord (81pts)
Exp. Wasp (33pts)
Vet. Nightwing (72pts)
Rok. Hawkman (32pts)
Exp. Logan (49pts)
Rok. Vulture (15pts)
Vet. Aim Medic (17pts)

299pts

[Heretic]

Remember that U wasp also has leadership. This can be very handy in games w/ big teams.