outwit vs. stealth

[shanbo83]

i know this has been discussed before but i can't find the thread.
for clarity can you outwit a stealth power if your adjacent to someone using stealth in hindering terrain?

[Contingency Plan]

Only if your character with Outwit has Superman/Ultimates team ability or a power that lets them see through Stealth.

Basically they would have to draw LOF to the Stealth character, which they cannot. Even when based.

Hope that helps.

[Harpua]

i know this has been discussed before but i can't find the thread.
Ok, I have to ask what you used for your search.

[IceHot]

i know this has been discussed before but i can't find the thread.
for clarity can you outwit a stealth power if your adjacent to someone using stealth in hindering terrain?

a Hint....

Outwit requires Line of Fire, not Line of Sight.
Do you have Line of Fire?

[BigDaddyHub]

What is this Line of Sight of which you speak? I knowest it not.

[Terman8er]

Ok, I have to ask what you used for your search.

Three dogs, a hungry homeless man and a Jane Fonda blow up doll.







Ahem....no questions about the doll allowed.

[Hero_guy]

Ok, I have to ask what you used for your search.

Well to be fair, I had the same problem just now when I was trying to find an Outwit/Stealth thread. I used "Super Strength" and "Giant" keywords. I don't know where I went wrong...

Besides, saying things like "I know its been discussed, but..." is more of a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally. Much like the common greeting "How you doing?" doesn't really imply that the person asking cares about your actual physical/mental state. :p

[Munchoboy]

I really cannot believe there is a 1,374th thread on this topic. :tired:

I'm wondering when it will inevitably devolve into the (preumably requisite) "I want it to work this way" Vs "No one cares how you want it to work" Nerdrage debate. :rolleyes: :p

[Terman8er]

I really cannot believe there is a 1,374th thread on this topic. :tired:

I'm wondering when it will inevitably devolve into the (preumably requisite) "I want it to work this way" Vs "No one cares how you want it to work" Nerdrage debate. :rolleyes: :p

Well, now that you mention it I have always believed that....hold on one second there pal!!! You were baiting me weren't you?!??! Oh you sneaky sneaky man you!! ;)

[Munchoboy]

Well, now that you mention it I have always believed that....hold on one second there pal!!! You were baiting me weren't you?!??! Oh you sneaky sneaky man you!! ;)

LOL

/Rep. :classic:

[shanbo83]

Ok, I have to ask what you used for your search.

i just run through all the rules threads. im not very computer savvy. if its not on the front page im still trying to figure out how to do everything on this site. i only have so much time of day.

[shanbo83]

wow nevermind. its just not worth asking questions for help is it. i guess we all continue playing the game wrong and teaching other folks in the area how to play it wrong. thanks anyways.

[normalview]

i just run through all the rules threads. im not very computer savvy. if its not on the front page im still trying to figure out how to do everything on this site. i only have so much time of day.

In that bar that runs across the top of the thread list, there is an option to 'search this forum'. You can either type a keyword or two into that after clicking on that, or you can choose the 'advanced' option which allows you a few more bells and whistles.

[normalview]

wow nevermind. its just not worth asking questions for help is it. i guess we all continue playing the game wrong and teaching other folks in the area how to play it wrong. thanks anyways.

Where did this come from?

[Pepsirox08]

sick of this argument, sure it makes no sense that i cant outwit while im next to you... it also doesnt make sense that i cant see a fig but i also cant shoot past the fig to hit another fig... if its blocking me then i should be able to hit him!!!

[Munchoboy]

Where did this come from?

I think it is an overly-sensitive response to my post (and perhaps a few others). ;)

[normalview]

sick of this argument

Then close this thread and read another. No one is forcing you to read this ;)

[Munchoboy]

I'm wondering when it will inevitably devolve into the (preumably requisite) "I want it to work this way" Vs "No one cares how you want it to work" Nerdrage debate. :rolleyes: :p

Looks like post #15 may be the winner...

sick of this argument, sure it makes no sense that i cant outwit while im next to you... it also doesnt make sense that i cant see a fig but i also cant shoot past the fig to hit another fig... if its blocking me then i should be able to hit him!!!



:laugh:

[Clclix]

Its one of those things that to new or inexperienced players is hard to grasp, but we have seen the thread or argument on this one a million times, so it may be new to some, but to people who have been on here a while, its frustrating....I'm sure we will see this thread again, so prepare yor witty retort now.

[Ginormous]

1) Someone posts, "Can I outwit someone in stealth while adjacent?"
2) A resounding "no"
3) ...
4) Profit

[CutieBoy_103]

What is this Line of Sight of which you speak? I knowest it not.

@icehot: art thou the one who speakest of this, this, line of sight? then please tell me!

[bigbro911]

As far as the rules say, it is what it as...accept it please

This debate always reminds me of a similar issue back in my MechWarrior (DA) days. The special equipment Armor Piercing used to ignore the defensive equipment on the unit being attacked. That was fine and dandy for armors like light and heavy (similar to what penetrating is now). However there was a defensive equipment called Decoy, which basicly made your roll a second time to hit, and if you missed, no damage. Under the old rules AP ignored Decoy, which makes no sense from a practical/real world prospective. I heard this one a hundred times and it reminds me of the stealth/adjacent issue every time! :p

Then you must realize that this is a game with rules, and not everything can match your expectations for what is rational or expected. It just is what it is.

Note: When MW (AoD), a later rule set, came out they fixed AP to only work on defensive equipement that had "Armor" in the name, so there is always hope!!!

[CutieBoy_103]

I think it is an overly-sensitive response to my post (and perhaps a few others). ;)

umm, maybe we should go back to the thread "remember, you were a newbie once, too.."???

[IceHot]

What is this Line of Sight of which you speak? I knowest it not.

Bingo...the rules (particularly Outwit) use the term Line of Fire as opposed to Line of Sight.

If you think of the rules as Line of Fire and not as Line of Sight it may help you grasp the concepts better.

If you are adjacent to Batman you can see him to punch him, so I imagine you could argue that you have Line of Sight.

However, Line of Sight has nothing to do with Outwit. You are required to have Line of Fire. Unlike the ability to see Batman to throw a punch at him, Line of Fire is blocked by Stealth and Hindering terrain regardless of your proximity to the figure.

[Ginormous]

I think we need a FAQ sticky for common questions.

1) If adjacent, can I outwit someone in stealth? A: No
2) Can I pulse wave if the only character in range is in stealth? A: Yes

[Munchoboy]

umm, maybe we should go back to the thread "remember, you were a newbie once, too.."???

Agreed.

That said, I have a difficult time qualifying someone as a "newbie" if they've been a member here since Sep 2007. :rolleyes:

That may just be me though... ;)

[Harpua]

Ok, I have to ask what you used for your search.

@op: I wasn't trying to be snarky with this. I was asking to ascertain if you were doing what you said you did, or if you were using the search bar in order to provide some follow-up like what normalview stated already.

[nivlac713]

Dang guys. I understand it gets annoying to see the same stuff again and again, but you guys don't need to coment. We get you don't like it. Ignore it. Guy asks for help in understanding something and you chase him away. Bad form. Just don't post. If someones new they don't know a topics been brought up the upteenth time. They just have a question. Boo guys, just boo.

[Munchoboy]

Dang guys. I understand it gets annoying to see the same stuff again and again, but you guys don't need to coment. We get you don't like it. Ignore it. Guy asks for help in understanding something and you chase him away. Bad form. Just don't post. If someones new they don't know a topics been brought up the upteenth time. They just have a question. Boo guys, just boo.

What madness is this? You cannot shame satire into silence! :laugh:


In all seriousness, folk need to be touch less sensitive here (or the Internet in general really). Otherwise they won't last a week. :cry:

[nivlac713]

What madness is this? You cannot shame satire into silence! :laugh:


In all seriousness, folk need to be touch less sensitive here (or the Internet in general really). Otherwise they won't last a week. :cry:

Not trying to shame anyone into anything. People complain about people doing the same thing so they do the same thing. I have seen most of the people on this thread post the exact same thing in other threads. Just kinda funny. My issue is someone asked a question and got slammed for it. Just hate to see that is all. Sensitive or not, he got upset. Just think about that is all I ask. "With great power..." and all that jazz. :>

[IceHot]

Also for reference the answer is in the Player Guide page 2-2.

Its lengthy but if you need a link just let me know.
Depending on your search-fu skills the pdf can be a great resource.

For those not so computer savy...
download the Pdf.
Then you can search the document by pressing CTRL+F and type in a simple word like Stealth.
Then press Next until you get the relevant answer

[nivlac713]

Wow. Nice and constructive! Thanks much dude! Here comes the rep express! Woo woo!

[tyroclix]

Wow. Nice and constructive! Thanks much dude! Here comes the rep express! Woo woo!

I dunno. It seemed kind of sarcastic to me.

I mean, there weren't any smileys...

;)

[Questions]

Also for reference the answer is in the Player Guide page 2-2.

Its lengthy but if you need a link just let me know.
Depending on your search-fu skills the pdf can be a great resource.

For those not so computer savy...
download the Pdf.
Then you can search the document by pressing CTRL+F and type in a simple word like Stealth.
Then press Next until you get the relevant answer

Interesting. The page is different (Page 2-3) in the redlined Golden Age version.

[nivlac713]

I dunno. It seemed kind of sarcastic to me.

I mean, there weren't any smileys...

;)

Are you, my friend, an instigator? :>

[shanbo83]

im not arguing the rule, im actually fine with it, it makes outwit less of a factor in our games. i was just trying to show everybody i play with the actual way it works and they didn't believe me. that's all and sorry for making another thread about it. it won't hurt my feelings at all if you guys want to shut it down.

[IceHot]

im not arguing the rule, im actually fine with it, it makes outwit less of a factor in our games. i was just trying to show everybody i play with the actual way it works and they didn't believe me. that's all and sorry for making another thread about it. it won't hurt my feelings at all if you guys want to shut it down.

I suspected as much which is why I gave you that tidbit about LoF vs LoS. Ineviatbly one of your fellow-gamers will bring it into question. It can help you seperate out the "rules" from the "shortcuts"

Also why I recommend a download of one of the player guides. I tend to use the non-redlined Golden Age Version first.

Good Luck and Happy Gaming...

:) :classic: :cool: :p ;) :grin: :laugh: :cheeky: :knockedou

[Terman8er]

Only if your character with Outwit has Superman/Ultimates team ability or a power that lets them see through Stealth.

Basically they would have to draw LOF to the Stealth character, which they cannot. Even when based.

Hope that helps.

a Hint....

Outwit requires Line of Fire, not Line of Sight.
Do you have Line of Fire?

wow nevermind. its just not worth asking questions for help is it. i guess we all continue playing the game wrong and teaching other folks in the area how to play it wrong. thanks anyways.

Or you could have looked at post 2 (quoted above) or post 4 (also above) where the answer was given.

[shanbo83]

Or you could have looked at post 2 (quoted above) or post 4 (also above) where the answer was given.

which i did and rep'd for. just wish karma would go a little further around here.
also yeah ive being playing since the game came out (apparently just a little differently) never played in any tournaments or official play, never have i met a judge or any "official". all games have been with the same circle of friends consisting of 5 people besides myself. we read the rules and everybody has there own take on a few different subjects such as the outwit question. was i being a little sensitive? probably, especially since i knew that some people were going to be sarcastic about an subject i spoke of.

i CAN honestly say that i was sadly kinda surpised that the moderators were actually professional on the subject and they felt like i was complaining about them, sorry for the confusion, i was actually complaining about the folks who ping on a thread when they know what the thread is going to be about just to put a nonsense remark in to feed their own ego. ive learned my lesson and will be more choosy about the questions i ask. thanks to everybody who actually tried to help, we need more of you

[MaxFortune]

Where did this come from?

He was in hindering when he said it. I guess he had Stealth.

[Ribbon]

In all seriousness, folk need to be touch less sensitive here (or the Internet in general really). Otherwise they won't last a week. :cry:

Don't be a jerk??

[MaxFortune]

In all seriousness, folk need to be touch less sensitive here (or the Internet in general really). Otherwise they won't last a week. :cry:

Funny you say that, as I just whipped this up last night:

Usenet 1998 (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=753&pictureid=10940)

[Terman8er]

which i did and rep'd for. just wish karma would go a little further around here.
also yeah ive being playing since the game came out (apparently just a little differently) never played in any tournaments or official play, never have i met a judge or any "official". all games have been with the same circle of friends consisting of 5 people besides myself. we read the rules and everybody has there own take on a few different subjects such as the outwit question. was i being a little sensitive? probably, especially since i knew that some people were going to be sarcastic about an subject i spoke of.

i CAN honestly say that i was sadly kinda surpised that the moderators were actually professional on the subject and they felt like i was complaining about them, sorry for the confusion, i was actually complaining about the folks who ping on a thread when they know what the thread is going to be about just to put a nonsense remark in to feed their own ego. ive learned my lesson and will be more choosy about the questions i ask. thanks to everybody who actually tried to help, we need more of you

I can understand the harsh response to a Rules question from an Oranger but since the answer was given the rest of us were just goofin' around and no offense was meant.

And Karma? You mean her?

ff039 V Karma
Team: X-Men
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 59
Keywords: X-Men
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst71115171014169141681315813157121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

I did always like the Vet version. ;)

[shanbo83]

I can understand the harsh response to a Rules question from an Oranger but since the answer was given the rest of us were just goofin' around and no offense was meant.

And Karma? You mean her?

ff039 V Karma
Team: X-Men
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 59
Keywords: X-Men
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst71115171014169141681315813157121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

I did always like the Vet version. ;)

ahh, but did she warrant 59 points?

[Terman8er]

ahh, but did she warrant 59 points?

As she is probably one the most undercosted figs I know of....yeah, I'd pay 59 points for that. Proof positive that powers cost, numbers don't (see Ult Thor for more proof).

[shanbo83]

As she is probably one the most undercosted figs I know of....yeah, I'd pay 59 points for that. Proof positive that powers cost, numbers don't (see Ult Thor for more proof).

touch'e:devious:

[Harpua]

touch'e:devious:

Weren't you just complaining about people calling you touchy?!?!?!?

;)

[shanbo83]

Weren't you just complaining about people calling you touchy?!?!?!?

;)

see now thats humor:laugh: