single judge made house rules

[djlil787]

where i play there is one judge. that one judge decided to make a house rule all by himself. i smell a hiearchy. now to the main question. can one judge make his own rule and make the players play by that rule without confirming it with anyone else? idont think that this should be decided by one man.
this means that a could make a rule that could help a friend's stratigy win the judge promos fro himself.
anyways,
just curios

[AshenFang]

Just out of curiosity, what was the Rule he instated?

And as far as I know, yes, they can.

[1138]

As far as I know, as long as it's known by all before hand, it should be cool.

Now, if there's still some reason why it might be impartial (i.e., if it still unfairly affects some and not others) you might want to bring it up with the judge. Tell them your concern. If that doesn't work, you can always bring it up with WizKids.

[djlil787]

Originally posted by AshenFang
Just out of curiosity, what was the Rule he instated?

And as far as I know, yes, they can.



where i play they let us mix. and after we started the tournament an adult player complained about my army. so the judge made a new rule stating marvel widcard powers cant be crossed with dc powers. my army was based on a stratigy that required this crossing the wild card. this caused me to loose the tournement.

[Manchine]

Thats the second biggest arguement about DC/Marvel Hero Klix.

Biggest one is Dup's.

[Funky Jett]

If it was after the tourney started, then you got shafted. The judge should have made that ruling prior to the start of the tourney, or not at all. He did not offer you the chance to alter your team since you had already started playing. That is wrong.

The judge in question should be reported for this action if he had not announced this rule before the start.

[dmac7979]

What are the no wild cards gonna do when they intro the Legion?

[heroclixguru]

What's the judges id? I never want to play when he is a judge. Most house rules are lame. If you play anywhere else and you are used to house rules that leaves you at a disadvantage. They especially made heroclix rules adabtable so that rule is just plain sillinous. I mean what's next, a friend of the Judge complains that your too smart and you can't use flyers.. ok that's a little exagerated... but whens the lunacy going to end.

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by dmac7979
What are the no wild cards gonna do when they intro the Legion?

That's a different animal, dmac. He's talking about no crossover Wild Cards (Marvel can't copy DC and vice versa). When the Legion figures come out, then there will be Wild Cards in DC which should be fine for that judge.

[djlil787]

Originally posted by heroclixguru
What's the judges id? I never want to play when he is a judge.


there is only one judge for heroclix where i play

[AshenFang]

I've actually heard of a simular ruling. (Though not during a game.) And personally feel that it's alright.

Mind you, that is if you are allowing the two universes to intermingle. Otherwise the problem doesn't exist, heh.

[TheFallenOne]

Originally posted by Funky Jett
If it was after the tourney started, then you got shafted. The judge should have made that ruling prior to the start of the tourney, or not at all. He did not offer you the chance to alter your team since you had already started playing. That is wrong.

The judge in question should be reported for this action if he had not announced this rule before the start.

dont jump to far ahead. first confront the judge (nicely) about it. if you go screaming straight to wizkids they might just dump the guy altogether. thats what happened around here and now none of us get to play in real tournaments. explain to him that he needs to post all the house rules ahead of time, and that if he wants to change them then he needs to do it before the next tournament and make sure everyone knows them ahead of time

[djlil787]

Originally posted by Funky Jett


That's a different animal, dmac. He's talking about no crossover Wild Cards (Marvel can't copy DC and vice versa). When the Legion figures come out, then there will be Wild Cards in DC which should be fine for that judge.

i won 1st place with this army 4 times. i have also been beaten by this army 1 time. i never complained nor did the guys i beat. But when this "new guy" came to play he complained so the judge changed the rule right then and there, in the middle of the tournament.

[djlil787]

Originally posted by TheFallenOne


dont jump to far ahead. first confront the judge (nicely) about it.


i tried that. but me a 15 year old player vs. an adult player and a judge. im no match.

[scowlingone]

He's the judge; he can make any house rules he likes. This doesnt' sound like a house rule; it sounds like a rules ruling. A ruling on the rules does not have to be made ahead of time, nor should he give you an aopportunity to chang your team.

Most judges that allow mixing do not allow cross-company wild cards.

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.

[AshenFang]

Judges are there to make calls best they can, to interpret the rules for WizKids, as WizKids can't be there themselves.

At times Judges don't always know what's going on, until it's brought to their attention.

I allow players to play in a fashion that partly enables two players Mutually Agreeing on something, to allow it to be played in a seperate way. If a new player comes along, and doesn't what to do that, that's their right.

(Prime example for our guys is the set up. I allow my guys to do it how ever they like, I prefer them to be civil and just choose one, but if they can't, they roll as normal. I don't think it's ever come to rolling. Also, with setting up Objects, they do it face up. Not a big thing, but it's still going against the rules a bit. At any time that a player wants them face down, then so be it.)

In the end, I, as a Judge, try to make it as fun for the players as possible. When there is a disagreement, it comes down to what the rules state.(In other words, the Judges interpretation of the rules.) Now, I'm not saying this applies for all Judges, but still, give them a chance. There's a lot of different rules in a lot of different places they need to keep straight. ;)

In the end, take care.. have fun... Ta!:D


(P.S. Just a little note here, I don't think it's technically Legal to play DC and Marvel together in Sanctioned events.)

[Edited for Spelling Errors and Grammar.;) ]

[djlil787]

Originally posted by scowlingone
He's the judge; he can make any house rules he likes. This doesnt' sound like a house rule; it sounds like a rules ruling. A ruling on the rules does not have to be made ahead of time, nor should he give you an aopportunity to chang your team.

Most judges that allow mixing do not allow cross-company wild cards.

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.


but he never made the ruling until that guy complained. he even said it was ok tournements before that guy compained. by the way in the beging of your post you made the judge sound like a king. well he isnt

[scowlingone]

At a tourney, the judge has absolute authority. You can complain afterwards, but a judge can do what he likes during the event.

[heroclixguru]

Originally posted by scowlingone
He's the judge; he can make any house rules he likes. This doesnt' sound like a house rule; it sounds like a rules ruling. A ruling on the rules does not have to be made ahead of time, nor should he give you an aopportunity to chang your team.

Most judges that allow mixing do not allow cross-company wild cards.

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.

Is being a jugde a magical force field that says you can't be wrong? JK... I wouldn't let age stop you from arguing your point, djlil787. I absolutley agree with you that that ruling is silly. And as far as it being a rule, huh, wha, where? Find it.... There is no ruling about that. Most judges.... huh? where you from... cause I haven't met one about I've been to about 10+ different venues.

[djlil787]

Originally posted by heroclixguru


Is being a jugde a magical force field that says you can't be wrong? JK... I wouldn't let age stop you from arguing your point, djlil787. I absolutley agree with you that that ruling is silly. And as far as it being a rule, huh, wha, where? Find it.... There is no ruling about that. Most judges.... huh? where you from... cause I haven't met one about I've been to about 10+ different venues.

im from roanoke VA

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by scowlingone
At a tourney, the judge has absolute authority. You can complain afterwards, but a judge can do what he likes during the event.

By not announcing this house rule prior to the start of the tourney, this judge violated the tournament rules he is supposed to uphold. Also, he should have afforded this player the chance to change his team.

The judge changed the game rules DURING the tournament. That is wrong, no matter how you look at it.

[heroclixguru]

Do you play at Star City Comics & Games, djlil787?

[Xavier PhD]

i think even IF wizkids ever decides to patch the games rules up, another major hurdle will be the judges (but that being said there are very MANY high quality judges that make this game even better than it is)

obviously if he changes the house rules in the middle of a tournament then he was wrong.

but i think wizkids themselves are too flexible on tournaments with prize support. those tournaments should ALWAYS follow OFFICIAL rules IMO. that way there is less of a chance of confusion and mayhem.

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by scowlingone
He's the judge; he can make any house rules he likes. This doesnt' sound like a house rule; it sounds like a rules ruling. A ruling on the rules does not have to be made ahead of time, nor should he give you an aopportunity to chang your team.

Most judges that allow mixing do not allow cross-company wild cards.

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.

SO, clear something up for me... What is a "rules ruling"? What the difference between a house rule and this "rules ruling"?

Nowhere does it say you can't mix them, unless this is an official WK-ran tournament. It wasn't. So mixing is ok. Just because "most judges" do not allow mixing doesn't make it an official rule. It just makes it a highly used house rule.

[AshenFang]

We aren't talking about a Sanctioned Event?

If not, why listen to the Judge at all? Judges are there to run the Sanctioned Events and to help near players into the game..(For the most part..)

If this game wasn't a Sanctioned Event, why was the Judge even presiding over it? (Perhaps the Venue wanted him to?) Either way..

A "Rules Ruling" ..is when people have a question of a certain rule, people interpret a different rule different ways.. and in either case, the Judge Makes a Ruling. ..it's not a hard concept.

[Edited, added this below.]

And if it wasn't a Wizkids Sanctioned event, you might as well regard the Judge as some random Joe Blow running the event. In other words, he could make you do the Polka each time you knock out an enemy. In addition to changing the rules on the fly. The Judge only has to give the 'Weeks notice' for Official WizKids games. ;)

[heroclixguru]

LOL, coming from a dude who post his record in a signature... that isn't that impressive... I don't see how you can say most judges. It's full of assumptions, just as the rules rulings. As I said will the lunacy never end?

[trutildeth]

Originally posted by heroclixguru
LOL, coming from a dude who post his record in a signature...

Sounds like an inferiority complex. As in, his opponents are inferior and their strategy isn't very complex.

[scowlingone]

An inferiority complex displays itself when one belittles the other person in a discussion rather than answering their points.

It's is always sound advice to keep the warning levels in mind. Please keep it civil.

[heroclixguru]

With all due respect, I have been addressing your points. I told you that it is full of assumptions. I also asked if you could find the rules ruling, please address this.

And also, I have read your post before, and noticed a certain mark of sarcasm. If you want respect you should treat others the way you want to be treated. Even in this post you say this:

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.

If I have been sarcastic to you, its because I feel you deserve it. Secondly, as for warnings I have not insulted you with malicious intent. I'm just joking with you at your expense. I haven't used any vulgar words and blatently attacked you. I treated you with the same amount of respect you showed to a 13 old kid that has a problem. And I for one back him up....

[AshenFang]

Umm, that's not sarcasm actually..perhaps a bit rude(Not that I don't agree with it..it's a good bit of advice.)..but certainly not Sarcasm.

And he's 15, and doesn't seem to want his age to be a factor in this, so let's not allow it to be, eh?

Can we continue?

[shin-goji]

The house rules we have at our venue are discussed with the players and ONLY if all the players agree does it officially become a house rule. All my players asked for a No Dupes rule, so I made it a house rule. In exchange, I allowed V Firelord in tourneys which was previously banned.

[trutildeth]

Originally posted by scowlingone
An inferiority complex displays itself when one belittles the other person in a discussion rather than answering their points.

Like the way you've been telling a 15 year old to "suck it up"? The implication there is that he's being a pansy and whining. Your duplicity is transparent, learn how to take a joke.

It's is always sound advice to keep the warning levels in mind. Please keep it civil.

And please don't think you're going to push around anyone with veiled threats of "telling the teacher". A new email address, switch the old IP around and I'll be back faster than you can rat the next person out.

[AshenFang]

Originally posted by shin-goji
The house rules we have at our venue are discussed with the players and ONLY if all the players agree does it officially become a house rule. All my players asked for a No Dupes rule, so I made it a house rule. In exchange, I allowed V Firelord in tourneys which was previously banned.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I run things.. well.. if my players would ask for something. =p

We don't use any House Rules as it is.. ..but if they ever did want something implimented, as a whole, I would allow it.

[Xavier PhD]

Originally posted by trutildeth


your duplicity is transparent

wow... duplicity... that is a good word, i'm going to remember to use that.

[djlil787]

Originally posted by scowlingone

So make a different army for next week, and suck it up.

i apprieciate the bakup heroclixguru. but i wouldnt consider scowling ones quote sarcazm. i would consider it construtional critisism. and to scowling one, i already have suked it up and built a new army and won atournement with it. i just wanted some other opinions

[Mr. Pilkington]

Back to the original topic. Funky Jett has it correct in that all house rules must be made clear before the tournament begins. This judge mishandled the situation. If people objected then it should have been changed for the *next* event, period. As for mixing sets, there are no officially sanctioned mixed tournaments. When a judge schedules an event it is either Marvel or DC (and I assume Indy will become a third separate choice when it is released). You get prize support for the type you scheduled (i.e. Marvel or DC). Beyond that the judges have complete discretion on the rules as long as all players are made aware of all rule changes before the tournament starts. Since there technically are no rules for mixing the sets (it just isn't done in WizKids' eyes) *all* rules regarding such practices would be house rules. These must be spelled out at the beginning of the tournament. If cross-set wildcarding was allowed at the beginning of the game then it is supposed to stay in effect until the end of the event. That is specifically to keep someone from running into the situation described here, namely having a whole team strategy become nullified or illegal mid-stream. As I said, the judge mishandled the situation. Since it was started at the beginning that you could mix teams, and it was not stated that Marvel wildcards could not copy DC teams then the wildcards would be able to via the wording on the wildcard team (it allows the figure to copy a team ability from a friendly figure). Since it was ruled that Marvel and DC figures were allowed together then there is no need for a special case rule on wildcards.. unless you want to ban that particular usage. There is very little to be done after the fact except politely ask the judge to please stick to the WizKids rules for running as tournament and announce all house rules prior to starting. It this kind of thing happens repeatedly I'd contact WizKids on it, as the judge could then be seen as purposefully breaking their contract. All WizKids wants us to do is keep everything fair and impartial and to help facilitate people having fun with their products (and thereby buy more of them!). We have few rules to follow, but the main one is to run fair games.

Now, all that being said, the original poster stated that said team was used multiple times to win before this event without any question. To that I would recommend in an aside to try playing other teams. I always try to encourage growth in heroclix players. But I also understand limiting circumstances like number of figures owned or placing winning a prize as the top priority. I'm not trying to be judgemental, I'm just saying don't be afraid to try new teams and just have fun. :)

[heroclixguru]

AshenFang
A "Rules Ruling" ..is when people have a question of a certain rule, people interpret a different rule different ways.. and in either case, the Judge Makes a Ruling. ..it's not a hard concept.

Regarding THIS thread, what rule are we trying to interpret? There is no ruling for wildcards when playing IC and DC. Have seen the claim that all heroclix sets are inter-playable? In this case, it is not a rules ruling, unlike other circumstances. For example, picking up objects from underneath a person with charge and superstrength, requires a rules ruling because Chapeau has specified how to handle it, due to lack of clearity in the FAQ. This is plain and simple... that this ruling was a house rule. Do we agree? If you do not please provide any documentation that supports any of this rule.

House rules are not all bad. Especially when all players agree to it. However, in THIS case not all players agreed.

So the real issue is did the judge mis-use his abilities. The other secondary issue... was it a good ruling.

In regards to the first and the more important issue, is yes, in my opinion the Judge overstepped his bounds. That was not fair for THIS particular player in THAT circumstance.

In regards to second issue in my opinion it was a silly ruling. It is difficult to debate about a house rule because it is opinion vs. opinion. That is the problem with house rules. Unless everyone agrees.

We are on a tangent if we are debating the validity of house rules and the judges responsibilities for that is mostly common sense, and concurs with what Shin-Goji said.

[Spookythecat]

Well said, Mr. Pilkington. Bra-vo!

[outpost1]

Djlil787,

I am the owner of Star City Games. Please e-mail me *directly* at outpost1@starcitygames.com and explain what happened. I will do my best to resolve the situation in the fairest way possible. If my judge did something that he should not have done, I will also discuss the issue with him and make sure that he's doing things correctly.

In the future, please address any and all concerns to me directly. We do our best to support all of the WizKids games, but we are human and we do sometimes make mistakes. If you bring a problem to my attention, I can assure you that it will be looked into as quickly as possible.

[djlil787]

i dont play at star city comics. this happened out of town away from virginia