outwit and poison

[ReesesFeces]

ive been thinking about this for a while: if i had someone with poison and outwit (i.e. vet joker), at the very beginning of my turn could i outwit someone's toughness or invulnerability, and them still take the poison damage? thanx.

[TheFallenOne]

you bet your butt you can! I had that same question a few months ago so i emailed the Magister and he told me that it was ok to do that because poison takes affect at the beginning of your turn and outwit can be used at any point during your turn. therefore you can outwit and then poison. it works so well. were you thinking of building a team around it? heres my old d.c. team that went undefeated in five tournaments

vet nightwing
vet joker
vet manbat
vet robin
exp booster gold
roo aquaman
vet checkmate medic

[ReesesFeces]

awesome, thats just what i wanted to hear.
yea, im kind of thinking making a team on it. i had put one together just for kix the other day:

V Joker
V Metropolis SCU x 2
E Metropolis SCU x 2
E Booster Gold x 2
V Booster Gold

I pretty much just made it for fun tho. the team you have doesnt sound too bad. how did you use it?

[TheFallenOne]

well heres the pairings
joker and booster gold
nightwing and manbat
aquaman robin and medic go solo

basically joker and booster charged towards the most powerful characters and tied them up while poisoning them every round. booster can take one heck of a beating. manbat carried nightwing somewhere that he could hide in terrrain and double shot incapacitate people who were giving the joker too hard of a time. manbat then charged anyone who got too close to nightwing. aquaman would run around pick up an object and smash anyone that the joker had injured and would sometimes come in to be mastermind bait. robin usually jumped from terain to terrain trying to get at their medics or being jokers meatshield. it worked amazingly well and was fun to play.

[ReesesFeces]

awesome. i may try it out. poison has to be one of my favorite abilities. i once made an entire team of just read skull and every lackey i could fit on the board. it was awesome. it was only a 400pt game or so. so i had a lot of points to work with. it was great.

[double_a]

FYI
Sorry to correct you, Hero (I'm not sure if I've ever had to before!), but you can't use outwit before poison... Poison and Leadership must happen before anything else the player does on his/her turn. So once the outwit ends, the invulnerability springs to life, and is there for the poison, and then can be outwitted.

Chapeau
The original ruling was by Magister:

quote:
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Outwit
· HeroClix turns aren't divided into phases. "During your turn" means at any point during your turn. "At the beginning of your turn" means before you take your first action. Yes, your Outwit from last turn ends as this turn begins, but because Outwit doesn't require an action you can Outwit someone's Toughness at the beginning of your turn, before Poison takes effect. (Magister, August 24, 2002)
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Chapeau, are you over-riding this ruling (which we've been using since August)?
I hate over-turning rulings...however, as the rules are worded, nothing can be used before Leadership and Poison...I'll talk to Jon and James, see whats up. And yes, I meant invulnerability.

Chapeau
So it's not over but Chapeau has ruled no Outwit before Poison or Leadership.
Until it's in the FAQ or a confirmation from the designers, I'm ruling that Outwit is allowed but this "loophole" may get closed soon.