Brightest Day On Display [Archive]

thunderhole

08/05/2010, 19:32

I didn't see this posted and I am surprised no one has mentioned it. The Wizkids booth had all of the Brightest Day figs on display next to the Watchman figs.

Hawkgirl - 71 pts, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and toughness

Aquaman - 105 points, Aquatic Transporter, trait, starting click has charge, super strangth, and invulnerability

Deadman - Mystics TA, 67 points, 6 range, starting click has phasing/teleport, psychic blast/penetrating, and combat reflexes

Martian Manhunter - 158 points, 6 range, trait, starting click has phasing/teleoprt and impervious

Osiris - 127 points, 3 range, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and impervious

Captain Boomerang - 61 points, 6 range, sharpshooter

Firestorm - 141 points, 8 range, 2 targets, trait, starting click has phasing/teleport and poison

All of the sculpts looked great from what I saw. This is the information that I could see. The dials were on KOs, so the powers were what I could tell were peeking through. They should be 98% correct.

subliminalthreat

08/05/2010, 19:34

groovy sir....as much info on Osiris if at all possible...otherwise have fun and hope you do well!

Troma99

08/05/2010, 19:36

And Boomberbutt!

Blaiser

08/05/2010, 19:49

No one mentioned this because it was lost among the excitement for Web of Spider-Man!!

okay.. at some point I'll want to know so you might as well post what you find.

wonderboy8917

08/05/2010, 19:52

Someone did mention they had DC75 figs on display, but they did not allow you to take pics. Although someone out there had a video camera. Maybe the vid will surface.

chrisgo316

08/05/2010, 20:02

Please, please. please give some more info on the new Aquaman!!!

Rurouni KJS

08/05/2010, 23:35

Aquaman is over 100

[fistpump]YES.

Iron Man 49

08/05/2010, 23:52

Aquamania Is Gonna Run Wild On You.

chrisgo316

08/05/2010, 23:57

The new Aquaman is the main reason that I am buying this new set. I so hope that it does him some major justice.

Hatut Zeraze

08/06/2010, 00:41

Aquamania Is Gonna Run Wild On You.

This is our new Aquamantra!

Angafea

08/06/2010, 09:36

Want to see these for sure! Rep to you!

Blubeard

08/06/2010, 14:34

bah still missing the boat with no maxwell lord or hawk...but ill happy with a new boomerbutt and an osiris

Epicman

08/07/2010, 07:53

So, anyone got any pics or more info on this before Gen Con's over with? I mean, I'm thrilled for Web of Spidey but have you read the latest Brightest Day? Epic!

traitorarmor

08/07/2010, 09:44

bah still missing the boat with no maxwell lord or hawk...but ill happy with a new boomerbutt and an osiris

Becasue we already know, as it is written in stone, that they won't be in DC75.

I mean it's not confirmed in anyway what so ever....but still ...:cheeky:

:p :p

thunderhole

08/07/2010, 10:00

Updated with the info I could get. Speculate away! If you're counting, that's five traits out of seven figures.

Epicman

08/07/2010, 13:19

Aquaman's only 105? Well, here's to hoping he's one of those crazy good for his low cost characters.

Iron Man 49

08/07/2010, 19:25

Good work. Only one TA in the whole Set? Wow.

Miraclo

08/07/2010, 19:27

Thanks for trying to compile the info!

sol

08/07/2010, 19:31

Nice! This might be as close to a preview as we get with these figures, so thanks!

Wade Wilson

08/07/2010, 19:33

Any pics? I am thinking they are going to have a white body right?

MarshallXIII

08/07/2010, 19:34

158 point martian? ermmmmm....

Miraclo

08/07/2010, 19:38

sol

08/07/2010, 19:40

In the flurry of info earlier in the year (and for several months I was oblivious to almost everything) I've missed what we know about the Brightest Day set. It's going to be like an Action Pack or an alternate starter set?

Kind of like a starter with no rules. Comes with a map (lol..the 'first ever' double-sided map, specifically). No dice, I guess.

Hatut Zeraze

08/07/2010, 19:41

In the flurry of info earlier in the year (and for several months I was oblivious to almost everything) I've missed what we know about the Brightest Day set. It's going to be like an Action Pack or an alternate starter set?

Action pack, as I recall, but with a double-sided map. I remember hearing that somewhere.

Miraclo

08/07/2010, 19:41

Kind of like a starter with no rules. Comes with a map (lol..the 'first ever' double-sided map, specifically). No dice, I guess.

Okay, so it is in that Action Pack model, then. Thanks!

happyoptimistic88

08/07/2010, 20:08

Thank you for posting this, rep to you!:cool:

I didn't see this posted and I am surprised no one has mentioned it. The Wizkids booth had all of the Brightest Day figs on display next to the Watchman figs.

Hawkgirl - 71 pts, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and toughness

Aquaman - 105 points, Aquatic Transporter, trait, starting click has charge, super strangth, and invulnerability

Deadman - Mystics TA, 67 points, 6 range, starting click has phasing/teleport, psychic blast/penetrating, and combat reflexes

Martian Manhunter - 158 points, 6 range, trait, starting click has phasing/teleoprt and impervious

Osiris - 127 points, 3 range, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and impervious

Captain Boomerang - 61 points, 6 range, sharpshooter

Firestorm - 141 points, 8 range, 2 targets, trait, starting click has phasing/teleport and poison

All of the sculpts looked great from what I saw. This is the information that I could see. The dials were on KOs, so the powers were what I could tell were peeking through. They should be 98% correct.

happyoptimistic88

08/07/2010, 20:09

158 point martian? ermmmmm....

That's what I was thinking, 158???:ermm:

WhoaDirty

08/07/2010, 21:10

That's what I was thinking, 158???:ermm:

Why is 158 perplexing?

MarshallXIII

08/07/2010, 21:12

It is compared to 212 on a Martian from several comic years prior. you'd think (like myself) he'd get better with age.

sol

08/07/2010, 21:12

Why is 158 perplexing?

Seems lowish for Martian Manhunter.

Troma99

08/07/2010, 21:53

It is compared to 212 on a Martian from several comic years prior. you'd think (like myself) he'd get better with age.

Maybe He's disoriented with the whole dying and coming back to life. And if teh sculpt is any indication the Black lantern's still trying to come out in him.

Rurouni KJS

08/08/2010, 00:33

It is compared to 212 on a Martian from several comic years prior. you'd think (like myself) he'd get better with age.

Seems lowish for Martian Manhunter.

This is the first not wasting points on a near-useless team ability, so there's that. Probably also benefits from either the discounting power of combined SPs or vanilla clicks or both.

But on to the main piece I care about: AQUAMAN:classic:

105 points? That's a little bit lighter than I expected or hoped for, but only a little. The good thing is he'll be easy to fit on teams.

Aquatic Transporter? Both promising and troubling. Promising 'cause transporters are useful, esp. if his AV is better than 10. Troubling because it might bloat him with little to show for it.

Trait? Hope it's finally something to represent his marine swarm summon. (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/rurounikjs/aquamankingofthesea.jpg)

Charge? I've grown very fond of the Surge SP (Charge with +2 speed in water), so this feels like a loss. But Charge is Aquaman's main physical attack anyway...no version of him should ever have been without it after Hypertime.

Super Strength? Yup. He has it.

Invulnerability? YES. Bullets bounce off him now (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48602/1219845-kjjkjk.jpg).

Hopefully his numbers are 8, 11, 17 and 3 on that first click and he's got a decent bunch of keywords.

Danzig01

08/08/2010, 07:06

adam1der

08/08/2010, 07:34

That's what I was thinking, 158???:ermm:

Because for someone who is basically Superman with the extra powers of Kitty Pryde, Mr. Fantastic, The Invisible Woman, Giant Man, Mystique and Professor X, 158pts. makes him seem like half the Martian he should be. :classic:

Edit: I was replying to WhoaDirty but, quoted Happyoptimistic88 by accident. My bad.

RandomAtom

08/08/2010, 09:44

I am even more excited for Firestorm now...even if he is a little expensive.

Bat-Dude

08/09/2010, 10:21

But on to the main piece I care about: AQUAMAN:classic:

Aquatic Transporter? Both promising and troubling. Promising 'cause transporters are useful, esp. if his AV is better than 10. Troubling because it might bloat him with little to show for it.

Trait? Hope it's finally something to represent his marine swarm summon. (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/rurounikjs/aquamankingofthesea.jpg)

I was thinking the same thing about Charge, but then I got to wondering if the Trait will be +2 Speed while in Water. The marine swarm seems more fitting as a Special Power, IMO.

I'm glad to see he's a Transporter. He's no Aquaman on a giant sea horse that I've been signature-begging for for years now, but the octo-leg will do :classic:

I just really, really hope they don't skimp on the Keywords.

Silver Lantern

08/09/2010, 10:39

Aquaman's only 105? Well, here's to hoping he's one of those crazy good for his low cost characters.

I'm looking at you FF starter Thing...

I just really, really hope they don't skimp on the Keywords.

If BN is any indication, then he'll have... White Lantern...

Seriously, after the Keyword debacle of Blackest Night (really, no Gotham on Scarecrow???), don't hold your breath that Wizkids is keyword happy with these starter sets...

Although, if Nohr Varr is any indication, we should be getting a little more keyword love than we have been seeing, here's hoping anyhow...

chrisgo316

08/09/2010, 13:55

NO!!!! I was so hoping that the Aquaman would be closer to the 150 point range of Namor. ARGGGG!!! Hopefully he will be undercosted???

I didn't see this posted and I am surprised no one has mentioned it. The Wizkids booth had all of the Brightest Day figs on display next to the Watchman figs.

Hawkgirl - 71 pts, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and toughness

Aquaman - 105 points, Aquatic Transporter, trait, starting click has charge, super strangth, and invulnerability

Deadman - Mystics TA, 67 points, 6 range, starting click has phasing/teleport, psychic blast/penetrating, and combat reflexes

Martian Manhunter - 158 points, 6 range, trait, starting click has phasing/teleoprt and impervious

Osiris - 127 points, 3 range, trait, starting click has charge, super strength, and impervious

Captain Boomerang - 61 points, 6 range, sharpshooter

Firestorm - 141 points, 8 range, 2 targets, trait, starting click has phasing/teleport and poison

All of the sculpts looked great from what I saw. This is the information that I could see. The dials were on KOs, so the powers were what I could tell were peeking through. They should be 98% correct.

Xais

08/09/2010, 13:56

They all might actually have Black lantern corps as well, which opens more theme team capabillities with the chases.

Norym

08/09/2010, 13:59

NO!!!! I was so hoping that the Aquaman would be closer to the 150 point range of Namor. ARGGGG!!! Hopefully he will be undercosted???

Well Sea-man does not fly like Namor and that should have a lot to do with cost.

Kaitouace

08/09/2010, 14:12

I hope we finally have a Firestorm worth using.

herojoe

08/09/2010, 15:06

Hopefully Deadman has some crazy awesome ability.

Gentlegamer

08/09/2010, 15:12

Seems lowish for Martian Manhunter.
For ten points more, Ms. Skrull-vell stole one of his dials.

Troma99

08/09/2010, 15:49

Well Sea-man does not fly like Namor and that should have a lot to do with cost.

Swallow, Come.

GOd that joke never gets old.

Oh yeah Namor is like a Superman without the Range. I love Aquaman, I do but yeah...

Rurouni KJS

08/09/2010, 22:52

I was thinking the same thing about Charge, but then I got to wondering if the Trait will be +2 Speed while in Water. The marine swarm seems more fitting as a Special Power, IMO.

I'm glad to see he's a Transporter. He's no Aquaman on a giant sea horse that I've been signature-begging for for years now, but the octo-leg will do :classic:

I just really, really hope they don't skimp on the Keywords.

Y'know, I'll be OK even if they do. He's not a fan of Atlantis (yet) in Brightest Day, so it'd make sense for him maybe not to have that or the Ruler keywords. And then he'll be perfectly playable with JL Aquaman and his :m-dolphin: Perplex. :classic:

I do love the Transporter status, too. HSS is always good.

I'm looking at you FF starter Thing...

...and Rookie Origin Shazam!

NO!!!! I was so hoping that the Aquaman would be closer to the 150 point range of Namor. ARGGGG!!!

Sure, yeah, but why would he be? He's never been on Namor's level as a straight-up beast stick. As another noted, just lacking Flight would cut his cost down.

BattlinBichon

08/10/2010, 15:47

I am really looking forward to this set. Does anyone know the release date?

PsychoDan

08/10/2010, 16:57

October 2010

The Incredible Mate

08/10/2010, 17:35

I'll end up buying it just for new clix. I am excited for deadman, aquaman, firestorm and the manhunter. It would be cool if Manhunter had a pick/choose dial for white or black lantern. But then It would make my Black Lantern Chase manhunter go down in price. Ehhh not like I would trade him anyway.

Troma99

08/10/2010, 20:25

Not necessarily. I mean if we got an E-2 Superman in this set I doubt the Price of the Chase would drop significantly. Unless it was the EXACT Same Dial.

Morand

08/10/2010, 20:56

They had a box out as well, and that box had aquamans card behind some figures.

Myself and another gentleman were just able to make out aquaman's trait.

The undead sea. When a figure with the atlantis keyword is KO'd deal 2 damage to the figure that KO'd the atlantean figure and any other figure that damaged it (the atlantean figure) that round. (This is not the exact wording, but the gist)

It did not mention that you needed to be in water.

He has a special power, It looks like it's called tentacle whip and all I could make out was that he has a range of 8 for whatever it does

Grumpygoat

08/10/2010, 20:59

105 points? Low for Aquaman?

Thus the JLA remains a pain in the butt to build for. I was hoping for something in the 70-80 point range that was solidly effective, rather than yet another figure that makes putting together the JLA a huge frickin' problem.

Oh, and he's a transporter on top of that. So he can't be carried. That's super helpful on a team where many of the main members fly.

I hope he has a good, playable dial, but man. I do not need any more damn JLA members that come in at over 100 points. I want to see most of their point costs go down, not up. Give me a 175 point Superman. Give me a 150 point Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman - well, ok, we do have versions of those that are that much or less.

Random sidenote, but 158 points isn't too low for the Martian Manhunter - he could easily use Skrull Ms. Marvel's dial and it would be perfectly accurate. I rather wish he had Skrull Ms. Marvel's dial, so a major character would have it, rather than some obscure variant of a not particularly major character.

Still, I want to see a version of the JLA that can fit Aquaman, Wally, Kyle, and all the other 7 main members into a 700 point game. Right now it's a huge pain in the ### unless I want to use Alter Egos or less than spectacular pieces (and often without the theme bonus, too).

Troma99

08/10/2010, 20:59

And did you see what kind of Construct was on Larfleeze's Dial? was it his best pal Glommulus?

Also: Any Info On Boomer?

Rurouni KJS

08/12/2010, 09:13

The undead sea. When a figure with the atlantis keyword is KO'd deal 2 damage to the figure that KO'd the atlantean figure and any other figure that damaged it (the atlantean figure) that round. (This is not the exact wording, but the gist)

It did not mention that you needed to be in water.

He has a special power, It looks like it's called tentacle whip and all I could make out was that he has a range of 8 for whatever it does

Wowwww! I hope this is on the level! Suddenly SI Atlantean Warriors may become doubly effective as quasi-Mystics tie-up pieces. And Aqualads, even moreso. Atlantis teams FTW!

105 points? Low for Aquaman?

Thus the JLA remains a pain in the butt to build for. I was hoping for something in the 70-80 point range that was solidly effective, rather than yet another figure that makes putting together the JLA a huge frickin' problem.

You've got the Starro Aquaman for that. The new "Replace then Modify" rules make his Surge power even better, giving him a 6 Charge speed out of water instead of the old 5 speed. ('Course, you need water for him to work out that way, but whaddaya expect. He's Aquaman...and a Rookie one, at that.)

Oh, and he's a transporter on top of that. So he can't be carried. That's super helpful on a team where many of the main members fly.

That is an issue. Maybe he gets to carry Batman this time. :cool:

Still, I want to see a version of the JLA that can fit Aquaman, Wally, Kyle, and all the other 7 main members into a 700 point game. Right now it's a huge pain in the ### unless I want to use Alter Egos or less than spectacular pieces (and often without the theme bonus, too).

Well, yeah. You just can't expect to fit the Big 7 in just 700 points and still have spectacular pieces. They're all too BIG. Just look at your own wish list:

Superman at 175
M.Manhunter at 150
Wonder Woman at 150
...leaving only 225 points to cram in the other 4 members at an average of 56 points each. You could do an adequate Batman and maybe an undercosted Aquaman at that price point. But Kyle and Wally? Not so much.

Anyway, the pieces are out there to do a 700-point JLA.

Troma99

08/12/2010, 10:25

apparently munchoboy had this pic

http://hcrealms.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1104&pictureid=11458

Bat-Dude

08/12/2010, 11:18

apparently munchoboy had this pic

http://hcrealms.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1104&pictureid=11458

"Something...SHINY!"
- The Tick

Hatut Zeraze

08/12/2010, 13:10

Looks like somebody oiled them up for a super-sexy photoshoot.

RavenProject

08/12/2010, 13:59

The undead sea. When a figure with the atlantis keyword is KO'd deal 2 damage to the figure that KO'd the atlantean figure and any other figure that damaged it (the atlantean figure) that round. (This is not the exact wording, but the gist)
Hm, that's what I was afraid of. We're not getting an "iconic" Aquaman. (Or Martian Manhunter, or Hawkgirl, or Firestorm, or Boomerbutt...) We're getting one specific to the Brightest Day storyline.

I'll withhold judgment until I've seen the full dials, because it's possible I might be able to ignore the "official" description and they'll still feel right. But if it turns out that these guys are only good for playing Brightest Day I might have to pass.

-J

Rurouni KJS

08/12/2010, 14:04

Hm, that's what I was afraid of. We're not getting an "iconic" Aquaman. (Or Martian Manhunter, or Hawkgirl, or Firestorm, or Boomerbutt...) We're getting one specific to the Brightest Day storyline.

That much was plain when we saw the half-zombie'd Martian Manhunter sculpt. I'm hoping DC 75 will have the true iconic, trident-toting Aquaman we're looking for.

In the meantime, I'm quite stoked about the Brightest Day one.

RavenProject

08/12/2010, 14:30

That much was plain when we saw the half-zombie'd Martian Manhunter sculpt. I'm hoping DC 75 will have the true iconic, trident-toting Aquaman we're looking for.

In the meantime, I'm quite stoked about the Brightest Day one.
I'd hoped that would only apply to Martian Manhunter since he was just in BatB. Silly me.

It's going to come down to the exact powers granted each character. I can pretend Aquaman's power is just him commanding swarms of fish to attack on behalf of his fallen subjects, that doesn't bother me so bad.

Like I said, withholding judgment 'til I see the full dials.

-J

sol

08/12/2010, 14:56

I'd hoped that would only apply to Martian Manhunter since he was just in BatB. Silly me.

It's going to come down to the exact powers granted each character. I can pretend Aquaman's power is just him commanding swarms of fish to attack on behalf of his fallen subjects, that doesn't bother me so bad.

Like I said, withholding judgment 'til I see the full dials.

-J

I'dve wanted his power to somehow attack HIM...lol. Ala Killer Whale.

Troma99

08/12/2010, 17:05

Hm, that's what I was afraid of. We're not getting an "iconic" Aquaman. (Or Martian Manhunter, or Hawkgirl, or Firestorm, or Boomerbutt...) We're getting one specific to the Brightest Day storyline.

I'll withhold judgment until I've seen the full dials, because it's possible I might be able to ignore the "official" description and they'll still feel right. But if it turns out that these guys are only good for playing Brightest Day I might have to pass.

-J

I dont' know if it based off what the current "White Lanterns" are doing then they may be fairly the same.

at least I hope for boomberbutt. All he's been doing is making exploding Boomerang constructs, which in clix should translate the same as him just throwing normal Bomb-erangs.

Perplexinator

08/12/2010, 17:17

Since Deadman is a flyer, and his current state has no powers at all, I'm guessing this figure is of him empowered by the white ring (I hope).

Osiris has a trait. Same for Martian Manhunter.

Troma99

08/12/2010, 17:19

I have a feeling Martian manhunter's going to have a Superman/Flash esque "Choose" Power.
You know like you can choose or you'll have to roll to see if he's a Black Lantern or a Normal MM

Grumpygoat

08/12/2010, 20:49

Well, yeah. You just can't expect to fit the Big 7 in just 700 points and still have spectacular pieces. They're all too BIG. Just look at your own wish list:

Superman at 175
M.Manhunter at 150
Wonder Woman at 150
...leaving only 225 points to cram in the other 4 members at an average of 56 points each. You could do an adequate Batman and maybe an undercosted Aquaman at that price point. But Kyle and Wally? Not so much.

Anyway, the pieces are out there to do a 700-point JLA.

"Undercosting" is generally a myth and 105 points for Aquaman doesn't qualify for a moment as undercosting him - nor pegging him at 56. As it stands, Arkham Question's dial would be perfectly fitting for one take on Batman. At a whopping 37 points. We've got a truly ridiculous take on Nightcrawler at 86 points, with the Flash readily having that dial minus a few powers to lower his cost. Starro Hal's all of 90 points and that's with the mostly unnecessary JLA team ability.

Also note that I stated "less than spectacular pieces." There are a few ways to cram the JLA into a 700 point game, but it won't be a particularly playable team. It'd be nice if the JLA were made with a bit more synergy in mind, and designed more for working with other JLA members. The team should complement each other. 105 point transporters don't do a great job of that.

Terman8er

08/12/2010, 21:02

Why is 158 perplexing?

Becaues, IMHO, it is about 100 points too low. At least 50 points too low.

The man damn near has every power on the PAC.

spideyguy51

08/12/2010, 21:04

I love the new aquaman's sculpt. Maybe he will get some dead shark minions.

Rurouni KJS

08/12/2010, 21:57

"Undercosting" is generally a myth and 105 points for Aquaman doesn't qualify for a moment as undercosting him - nor pegging him at 56.

I think you misunderstood a little. You're right that so-called undercosting is a myth; it's really just a whiny euphemism for "crazy efficient and effective compared to how the point formula costs other less-effective pieces in the same range." And any proper Aquaman at that 56-or-so price point would have to be thus in order to be decent. (See HT Arthur Curry and E Icons for examples of inadequate versions.)

As it stands, Arkham Question's dial would be perfectly fitting for one take on Batman. At a whopping 37 points.

Ehhhh, I suppose so. I hate the idea of a Batman that can't L/C and stalk the shadows at the same time. That dial's mad short, too. No fewer than six clicks for Batman. That adds about 10 points.

We've got a truly ridiculous take on Nightcrawler at 86 points, with the Flash readily having that dial minus a few powers to lower his cost.

Nighty's only got two clicks of HSS. A proper 6-click Flash should have at least two more than that (or some sort of move+attack) and so would come to at least the same cost. Probably more...Stealth is cheap.

Starro Hal's all of 90 points and that's with the mostly unnecessary JLA team ability.

OK, so let's assume that losing the JLA TA costs him at 80 points. I've established that Nightcrawler ≠ Flash powers-wise but once you drop the Stealth, Shape Change, SoupedUp Senses and, most of all, the pricey X-Men TA off, I'll grant you've got an only 90-point fig even with the extra HSS a Flash would certainly have. And just for the sake of your argument, let's say AA Question equals Batman at 37 points. Add in your desired

Superman 175
Wonder Woman 150
M. Manhunter 150
= 682 points, leaving only 18 points for Aquaman.

Also note that I stated "less than spectacular pieces."

Yeah. And you'd still be stuck with such in any 700-point "Big 7 JLA" build. SOMEone's gonna come up short, and in your example up there, it's Aquaman. And as a diehard Aquafan, I'M OFFENDED!!!!!!! :angry:
:classic: I'm also used to it.

spike1138

08/12/2010, 22:05

Rep coming for the sneak peek...

Grumpygoat

08/12/2010, 22:57

Yeah. And you'd still be stuck with such in any 700-point "Big 7 JLA" build. SOMEone's gonna come up short, and in your example up there, it's Aquaman. And as a diehard Aquafan, I'M OFFENDED!!!!!!! :angry:
:classic: I'm also used to it.

There's a reason why I pointed to the Question as a good Batman stand-in. One, to allow Batman to work as the one who comes up short and two, to avoid coming across as biased (as a pretty blatant Batman fan, for the most part).

As it stands, there's a general sentiment of "Characters need to cost more, more, more!" And bully to that. The Aquaman you want, where 105 points is on the low side, isn't much of a team player. The same with folk saying the Martian Manhunter should be 250 or anything similar. Most characters don't need to have their point cost increased - they need it decreased. Especially with the JLA. It'd be nice if they were just as easy to build for as the Avengers, or close enough.

Build efficiently, not with point bloat.

Rurouni KJS

08/12/2010, 23:32

There's a reason why I pointed to the Question as a good Batman stand-in. One, to allow Batman to work as the one who comes up short and two, to avoid coming across as biased (as a pretty blatant Batman fan, for the most part).

And yet, not only does he come up short, but Aquaman does as well!

As it stands, there's a general sentiment of "Characters need to cost more, more, more!" And bully to that. The Aquaman you want, where 105 points is on the low side, isn't much of a team player.

Well, that depends on what the points are spent on, and what sort of team. My ideal Aquaman is more of a team leader, with some form of Perplex for fish-types and/or a power water-related SP (the simplest being a 1d6 version of Incap); I know those abilities would cost a bit. I also want him to be significantly physically stronger than existing Aquaman pieces. Ideally, the piece I'm wanting is in the 110-130 range. As AA Wonder Woman is to other WW pieces, that's what I'm hoping for in a truly iconic Aquaman.

The same with folk saying the Martian Manhunter should be 250 or anything similar. Most characters don't need to have their point cost increased - they need it decreased. Especially with the JLA. It'd be nice if they were just as easy to build for as the Avengers, or close enough.

I feel you. But the Avengers are a very different team from the "Big 7" JLA. They've always had very balanced lineups of mostly smaller hitters with just a couple of big boys (Thor and Iron Man, usually) while half the iconic JLA's roster should be 200+ weightclass monsters...and the other half is still around 100 points as well!

Build efficiently, not with point bloat.

Dangerous line to tread. Doing Superman or Martian Manhunter right leads to point bloat, every time (see JL Superman — both of 'em — and BB Supes). Their powers just cost too much.

Done wrong, you end up with unsatisfying renditions like Det. John Jones or Exp. OR MM. They're not bad, not really...just, as I said, mildly unsatisfying.

Done too efficiently, and you split teh interwebs in HALF with the falling sky of NERD RAGE. See Ms. Skrullvel and WoS Nighty.

Terman8er

08/13/2010, 01:38

There's a reason why I pointed to the Question as a good Batman stand-in.

You and I have always disagreed about this. Using the Question to "stand in" for Batman doesn't make it Batman...it makes it Question. And if you handicap a Batman figure with Question's dial you just made something that isn't Batman.

So...why bother? If you want to run the "Big 7" JLA guys then I recommend running a 1000 point game. :)

sol

08/13/2010, 09:03

You and I have always disagreed about this. Using the Question to "stand in" for Batman doesn't make it Batman...it makes it Question. And if you handicap a Batman figure with Question's dial you just made something that isn't Batman.

So...why bother? If you want to run the "Big 7" JLA guys then I recommend running a 1000 point game. :)

I agree. I'm generally against 'stand-ins' as KJS can attest. What's the point of having character names at all if the dial and character don't match? You want to call that the big 7? I say it's the big-six and the Question. No theme team. Not even 'comic-accurate'.:cheeky:

Now, if you say 'Icons Batman Starter' version instead of a higher point Batman, then we'd be getting somewhere. But, he definitely isn't as good as the Question...

And this is treading dangerously close to the dupes/no dupes comic accuracy mallarky...i digress.

MarshallXIII

08/13/2010, 09:13

Terman8er

08/14/2010, 00:42

Therr's no way to build a proper big 7 for 1000 points without scaling someone back

See:

222 IO047 Superman
202 BB036 Martian Manhunter
248 AA023 Wonder Woman
120 AA099 Batman
200 BB048 The Flash and Green Lantern
102 BD Aquaman

That's like 1100 points and thats economizing by scaling back Superman to Exp and combining Flash and Green Lantern. They're just too darn awesome to be contained to 1K without compromising the characters.

I ran this recently in a 1200 point tournament:

238 CR105 Superman
248 AA023 Wonder Woman
157 CR023 Green Lantern
75 JL001 Batman
70 JL101 Aquaman
202 BB036 Martian Manhunter
114 JL027 The Flash
50 CJ222 The Atom
44 JL015 Gypsy
1198

Take out the last two, reduce the Flash to 99 points and tweak Hal and J'onn and you get:

238 CR105 Superman
248 AA023 Wonder Woman
75 JL001 Batman
70 JL101 Aquaman
99 IO054 The Flash
90 JL104 Green Lantern
167 OR083 Martian Manhunter
987

So there is the big 7, under 1000 points. But, I don't think there should be a real Superman, Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman for under 200 points. Buuuuut...I know I am in the minority there.

Rurouni KJS

08/14/2010, 09:51

Using the Question to "stand in" for Batman doesn't make it Batman...it makes it Question. And if you handicap a Batman figure with Question's dial you just made something that isn't Batman.

Now, if you say 'Icons Batman Starter' version instead of a higher point Batman, then we'd be getting somewhere. But, he definitely isn't as good as the Question...

You guys are missing Grumpygoat's point a little here: that there ought to be lighter-pointed but still-effective versions of these characters. He highlighted AA Question to show that a lite version of Batman could be fairly accurate to the character and still be a dynamite fig.

Therr's no way to build a proper big 7 for 1000 points without scaling someone back

See:

222 IO047 Superman
202 BB036 Martian Manhunter
248 AA023 Wonder Woman
120 AA099 Batman
200 BB048 The Flash and Green Lantern
102 BD Aquaman

That's like 1100 points and thats economizing by scaling back Superman to Exp and combining Flash and Green Lantern. They're just too darn awesome to be contained to 1K without compromising the characters.

I'd grant that still more economizing could be done.

A very solid version of WW could be made under 200 points. (Heck, lose the range-oriented powers on the BN version and you've easily got a great <200 Diana!)
A 120-point Batman isn't necessary when we've got a similarly awesome 75-point one.
Ms. Skrullvel's dial is a lite version of Martian Manhunter. He could be done under 200 points (and will be, in BD).

So...

E Icons Supes 222
BN WW (hypothetically minus 8:bolt: and all range powers) 200 at most
BB Flash & GL 200
BD MM 158
BD Aquaman 105
OOTS Bats 75
= 960 points.* If you really want to upgrade Superman to the Vet, you could drop Aquaman to the Starro version (with the Hydrant and Submerged) or Icons Vet (with C.Plan for best results) and still have a decent sea king on the team.

My argument was that a 700-point Big 7 JLA could never be done without scaling the characters back severely, a la the Danger Room starter set. When it gets to that point...well, then there is no point in running the Big 7. That'd just be the Wee 7. :classic:

* Come to think of it, I ran a Big 7 in 1000 points circa Origin, and it didn't skimp.
V OR MM 218
Man of Steel 200
LE Kyle Rayner 135
V Icons WW 127
U Icons Flash 99
OOTS Batman 75
V Icons Aquaman 71
I know I had CP on Aquaman. I want to say I maybe had V Atom on it as well, but I can't recall.