Would you support the idea of "Ultra Rare" figures?

[ProfessorShananigans]

With the announcement that there are no chase figures in Web of Spider-Man, I got to thinking. Some people love it and some people are bummed and miss the chases.

I thought of a new idea to propose that I think meets the debate right in the middle and should make most people happiest.

What if the next Heroclix set contained figures #061-#064, but rather than being Super Rares of chase figures they were "Ultra Rares". These figures could be approximately 1 in every 10 boosters. making them way easier to pull than any of the previous chase figures but significantly rarer than a Super Rare (approx. 1 in 3 boosters).

They could even give them a new colored tab (like say red, or blue) to denote their rarity. What does everyone think of this idea.

(p.s. Justin Z is watching this poll, so your vote may REALLY count for something):cool:

[Space Jawa]

I don't get the point, really. You might as well stick with Chases.

[commandercool]

Sure. Whatever is fine with me. I do wonder though why the chase model was abandoned (for this set at least) since it seemed to be working pretty well.

[doctor_x]

I thought that's what chase figures were supposed to be?

[Herrbrane]

I like the idea, however, you would need to make SRs 4 per brick and URs 1 per brick if we have 12 SRs and 4 URs. This is so that URs are more rare than SRs.

By the way I already miss chases and this would fill the void in my heart :cry:

By the way are we going to need Suttkus to go over proper poll decorum agian...

[red king]

No! Keep the WoS model.

[saturnflight]

1 in 10 would be cool, but might be a bit too common. That would mean that in 40 boosters you'd likely have a full 4-UR set, whereas a full SR set is 36 boosters.

I'd probably go to 2 URs and have 1 every 20 boosters.

[charlesx]

Ultra-Rares = Chases, in my book.

I don't like chases and am happy with the decision that WK chose to implement for WoS. I am hoping that the same applies to DC75th.

Thassall.

[saturnflight]

Overall, though, I'd prefer the 16Sr model, and the paint variant URs (chases) like Nightcrawler is. Leave the 'chasing' to collections, not gameplay.

[Herrbrane]

1 in 10 would be cool, but might be a bit too common. That would mean that in 40 boosters you'd likely have a full 4-UR set, whereas a full SR set is 36 boosters.

I'd probably go to 2 URs and have 1 every 20 boosters.

That would just be a new style chase (about what BatB chases were) and how would 4 in every 10 be different from 2 in every 20?

[Munchoboy]

I just want to go on the record and say that I have nothing against the inclusion of chases nor do I have anything against the exclusion of them. So long as I have more figs to collect, generally I'm pretty happy. :classic:

That would just be a new style chase (about what BatB chases were) and how would 4 in every 10 be different from 2 in every 20?

BatB chases worked out to be about 1 in every 30-40 boosters IIRC.

[nivlac713]

I like it the way it is. I don't like to "Chase" figs, I like to have a reasonable chance of pulling what I want. I think if they have 16 SR's and they always make the SR's fun and interesting there will be no shortage of people buying boosters to get all or even just the ones they want.

[aqhoffman]

WoS is a great model for future sets, imho. Its super early in the polling, but just reading earlier boards' comments, I think Super Rares being the max difficulty was a pretty popular decision. But a higher probability of pulling the "Ultra rare" does sound like it would sell boosters, but so will knowing you have a better chance of completing the entire set just through booster purchases.

[traitorarmor]

I think I'll wait until I see how the 16 SR format works out (trading/aquiring +buying).

Having said that, looking at the 1:10 booster ratio that was proposed it would take 40 boosters(average) of 2 cases to get them all in perfect coilation.

The SRs are 1:3 so it takes about 36 in perfect coilation to get the normal 12 SRs.

Under that system your should have the #s to have the full set at 40 boosters(again perfect coilation) while under the WoS modle it should take about 48 booster for the set.

That's making the same # of figs obtainable for almost 1 brick less (8 boosters really but a brick is easier to talk about).

That seems like a set backwards from a buisness perspective......good for the players/collectors, but still.

[Behemoth]

None of the options appeal to me. I want to see Masterpiece repaints brought back as Mail-Away/Internet code forms tucked in the boosters Chases.

If they do go Ultra Rare I would recommend 2-4 figures, 1 per case. 1 per brick is too common for Wizkids to gain any benefit.

I don't want Chases like in the past, but if Wizkids needs them for their business model to work, 1 per case is what I would like to see.

[commandercool]

Overall, though, I'd prefer the 16Sr model, and the paint variant URs (chases) like Nightcrawler is. Leave the 'chasing' to collections, not gameplay.

I like the idea of there being three or four figures in every set with a 1 in 10 paint or sculpt variant, but I'd like to see the difference being a bit more than the tiny variation between Nightcrawlers. Of course, Mage Knight had a system like that briefly and it was a total flop.

[flatmatt]

I say stick with the 16 SR model. The frustrating thing about chases is that I can't pull the figure I want, and I can't pull anything I can trade for the figure I want. With extra SRs, I'm less likely to get a particular SR, but I can trade the ones I do get for SRs I want.

Also, your math is off. If these "Ultra-Rares" were four per set and one in ten boosters, each one would only be slightly rarer than each super rare. Twelve SRs at 1 in 3 boosters means that a particular SR in 1 in 36 boosters. Four URs at 1 in 10 boosters makes each UR 1 in 40 boosters. Mostly what you're doing is keeping the 16 SR set but making all 16 SRs easier to get (assuming SRs are still 1 in 3 boosters in a 16 SR set).

[Granite Moose]

I'd prefer no chases at all like the WoS release, but barring that I have to agree with Space Jawa in the lack of reasoning.

I don't get the point, really. You might as well stick with Chases.

[Granite Moose]

Overall, though, I'd prefer the 16Sr model, and the paint variant URs (chases) like Nightcrawler is. Leave the 'chasing' to collections, not gameplay.

I obviously missed the notice, but what exactly is the "variant" of Nightcrawler?

[sphin]

I (tentatively) like the way they did WoS, so no chases, no ultra-rares. But, as others have said, it remains to be seen how it'll all pan out.

[elfholme]

WoS is perfect. It even has a "chase" with the alternate Nightcrawler.

[Ironman1994]

I thought that's what chase figures were supposed to be?
I thought it was 1 Chase:2 Cases. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But if it means we wont see chases again, go for it. Let's just not got the YGO route and have 22 established rarities. And that's just in the TCG, not counting the OCG.

[happyoptimistic88]

I vote: "No, I like it the way WoS did it, nothing more rare than a SR!"

With the announcement that there are no chase figures in Web of Spider-Man, I got to thinking. Some people love it and some people are bummed and miss the chases.

I thought of a new idea to propose that I think meets the debate right in the middle and should make most people happiest.

What if the next Heroclix set contained figures #061-#064, but rather than being Super Rares of chase figures they were "Ultra Rares". These figures could be approximately 1 in every 10 boosters. making them way easier to pull than any of the previous chase figures but significantly rarer than a Super Rare (approx. 1 in 3 boosters).

They could even give them a new colored tab (like say red, or blue) to denote their rarity. What does everyone think of this idea.

(p.s. Justin Z is watching this poll, so your vote may REALLY count for something):cool:

[larthosgrr8]

WOS hit the nail on the head. it'll still sell because you have figures ppl want in the sr slot. making 16 of each rarity =chase figure. only now you can buy 3-4 sr's for the price of 1 chase. thats the way i think it should stay. we have the power in this case. if ppl buy this set, it'll send a message. we don't need chase figures to actually like the set. i'm fine with a different paint job or something crazy like that. as long as i can still get the fig and dial i'm ok. have the ultra rare 'chase' version of NC. i think my regular version will play just fine!

[Shellhead's Pal]

Nice poll, dude. Though the model you're proposing is somewhat flawed in that Super-Rares would be almost as rare as a Ultra-Rare. Here's the math:

12 SR's at 1 in 3 = 2.7% chance of pulling a specific Super-Rare
4 UR's at 1 in 10 = 2.5% chance of pulling a specific Ultra-Rare

That being said, I do not like the 16 Super-Rare model. You wind up having to get too many boosters for a complete set (48 boosters in theory). I would prefer the model you've proposed, where you'd get a complete set in 40 boosters. 2 cases seems about right.

[larthosgrr8]

(p.s. Justin Z is watching this poll, so your vote may REALLY count for something):cool:

justin, we just want the figs man!! just make cool stuff and we'll buy it. WOS is soooooo good. chases would have ruined what is an excellent set. at gencon we got to see some really cool figures for the 75th set. imagine how many lantern fans would die if they found out that atrocitus, or guy gardner were chase!! the same would have been true is cosmic spidey would have been chase.

you"ll piss more ppl off then make happy for sure. not everyone can buy multiple cases every set to try and pull a chase. don't screw faithfull gamers by making some of our favorite characters and versions of those characters chase. when WOS drops you'll see. ppl will still buy even without chase figs. this game became so popular because it's fun and the figures look awesome. thats it in a nutshell!

[JoeGualtieri]

What if the next Heroclix set contained figures #061-#064, but rather than being Super Rares of chase figures they were "Ultra Rares". These figures could be approximately 1 in every 10 boosters. making them way easier to pull than any of the previous chase figures but significantly rarer than a Super Rare (approx. 1 in 3 boosters).:

Not really. If super rares are 1:3 , it'll take 36 packs to complete a set with the standard 12 SRs. At 1:10 with four figures, it'll take 40 packs to complete a set of URs, making them effectively just as rare as the SRs.

If there's going to be a worth rarity level, 1:20 makes the most sense, though 1:15 (meaning some cases would get two) would be preferable.

Oh, and that's another thing-- I'd like to see printed odds on packs. I know it makes me more likely to be buy packs of cards when I can see odds on the good stuff.

[Suttkus]

By the way are we going to need Suttkus to go over proper poll decorum agian...

I suspect I'm starting to develop a reputation. : - )

But, seriously, a sticky set of "good poll design" recommendations wouldn't be amiss, would it? Where does one suggest such a thing?

***

I obviously missed the notice, but what exactly is the "variant" of Nightcrawler?

The normal Nightcrawler comes with a plaque on the back of the wall with text that refers to Xavier's school. There's also a much rarer variant that records the name of the guy who designed the piece from winning that tournament.

This is the only kind of chase I can support: one that doesn't affect game play, or make it ridiculously hard to pick up a character you want. If you need a new Nightcrawler (and I certainly do!) I'll be happy with the normal version. If I get the rare version, very cool! I'd probably get a normal one and keep the rare safe in my collection.

[torontcollectr]

Hopefully lessons can be learned from another market which loves overkill rarities (sportscards).

Selling more boosters may initially bump the bottom line- but how long before having an abundance of commons detracts from the collecting aspect?

The chase appeals to the "gotta have it - completist" mentality - and while a chase is an interesting hook- the company has to watch out for the fall-out from those that don't/won't buy into it.

There are 2 aspects playability and collectibility. The company should be more concerned with growing market-share away from other game systems and other entertainment modes rather than just hosing its base customers.

[ophyjgjhnfn]

I like the idea, however, you would need to make SRs 4 per brick and URs 1 per brick if we have 12 SRs and 4 URs. This is so that URs are more rare than SRs.



I agree with this model of distribution. 4 SRs and 1 UR per brick makes it easier to get a 'chase' which you can then trade with your buddy across the table who bought a brick as well.

I do not miss Chases though. Not at all. More SRs? Cruddy. Reminds me of why I got out of Pokemon cards. When a 120 card set has 20 Holos and 20 Rares that are exactly the same, you spend way too much time and far too much money trying to "catch 'em all".

[Thrumble Funk]

I voted no, as I'm not sure how that'd work out collation-wise.

If they do insist on resuming chases, I'd prefer they become "case" figures (4 "case" figures, one per case - still gotta chase down the other 3).

[McFayne]

I've got to agree with larthosgrr8. I know my friends and I are going to buy more of WoS simply because we like the set and the dials. We REALLY wanted the Black Lanterns, but that didn't make us buy 3 cases of BatB. It just made us frustrated. So yeah, no chases is great for a lot of players like my self and the guys I play with.

[Beast]

No thanks.

No Ultra Rares. No Chases.

If they wanna do so-called "chase variants" like the upcoming Nightcrawler, that's fine.

At least that way people can get the pieces they want, and the chase fiends still get something to put value in. The best of both worlds for all parties involved.

But chases shouldn't be needed to increase sales. Just design good sets and people will buy. Don't deliver crap like B&TB and boost it's sales with hot chases.

[Granite Moose]

The normal Nightcrawler comes with a plaque on the back of the wall with text that refers to Xavier's school. There's also a much rarer variant that records the name of the guy who designed the piece from winning that tournament.

This is the only kind of chase I can support: one that doesn't affect game play, or make it ridiculously hard to pick up a character you want. If you need a new Nightcrawler (and I certainly do!) I'll be happy with the normal version. If I get the rare version, very cool! I'd probably get a normal one and keep the rare safe in my collection.

Thanks for the info. Rep coming your way.

I agree with your thoughts on this type of chase too.

[IceHot]

Nice poll, dude. Though the model you're proposing is somewhat flawed in that Super-Rares would be almost as rare as a Ultra-Rare. Here's the math:

12 SR's at 1 in 3 = 2.7% chance of pulling a specific Super-Rare
4 UR's at 1 in 10 = 2.5% chance of pulling a specific Ultra-Rare

That being said, I do not like the 16 Super-Rare model. You wind up having to get too many boosters for a complete set (48 boosters in theory). I would prefer the model you've proposed, where you'd get a complete set in 40 boosters. 2 cases seems about right.

What slot would they take up as well....

Right Now we get...
Slot A: 1 Common
Slot B: 1 Common
Slot C: 1 Uncommon
Slot D: 1 Rare
Slot E: 2 in 6 SR, 3 in 6 Common, 1 in 6 Uncommon

If we are talking just tweaking slot E then what would be the new ratio on that slot?

Slot E: 1 in 10 Ultra Rare, 3 in 10 Super Rare, 3 in 10 Uncommon, 2 in 10 Common, 1 in 10 Rare

That would yield on Average per Brick:
22 Commons over 16 possible
13 Uncommons over 16
11 Rares over 16
3 SRs over 12 (apx. 1 per 4)
1 UR over 4 (apx 1 per 4)

Wait thats basically the same thing as just upping the SR count to 4-in-10!

Now if they stayed at 16 SRs and 4 Ultra-Rares....
22 Commons over 16 possible
13 Uncommons over 16
11 Rares over 16
3 SRs over 16
1 UR over 4 (apx 4 over 16 which makes them less rare then the Super Rares)

Which would brings us to a more likely model
Now if they went to 20 Commons, 15 Uncommons, 15 Rares, 10 SRs, and 5 Ultra-Rares with the following distribution...

Slot A: 1 Common
Slot B: 8 in 10 Common, 2 in 10 Uncommon
Slot C: 1 Uncommon
Slot D: 1 Rare
Slot E: 3 in 10 Common, 2 in 10 Uncommon, 1 in 10 Rare, 3 in 10 SR, 1 in 10 Ultra Rare

then a brick would produce....
21 Commons over 20 possible
14 Uncommons over 15
11 Rares over 15
3 SRs over 10
1 UR over 5 (which makes them 1.5 time as rare as the SRs)

2.5 Cases to complete all URs
2.0 Cases short 1 UR however with all SRs +2 extra you should be able to trade to complete the set
1.5 Cases short 1 SR and 1 UR
1 Case All CURs, short 4 SRs and 3 URs

This leaves a nice balance for every level of collector, trader, competitive pieces only player, and speculators

[larthosgrr8]

i think the nightcrawler 'chase' is the best option really. you will still have the completest buying backs just to get that figure. you also give the normal buyer the same figure, and dial. i think if you released updated versions of all the chase figs with just unique rings you'd sell lots of them. ppl just want to play with the figs. super effective dials, and awesome sculpts shouldn't be the for chase figs only!

[W.I.T]

I'd like a 4th option:

I don't care either way.

That about sums up my feelings on the issue. I never had a problem with Chases. If I really wanted them badly enough, I'd acquire them. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother. Of the 20 Chase figures made so far, I've at one time or another owned all except the Zombies, and the KC Superman. 6 of those 15 are now gone. Chases never swayed my booster buying habits one way or the other. I'd buy between a Brick and a Case a set, then flesh out the rest via trades, E-Bay and the Sales Forums here.

BaTB was the only set since Avengers that this didn't hold true for. I bought a grand total of 6 boosters for that set, bought the CUR set, made a few trades, and bought all the Chases on the secondary market. I'm still 6 SR short of the full set (only set since Avengers that this also holds true for) but I really don't need/want most of the remaining SR, so I am fine with it.

WoS will be completely different for me. I need all the figures, and I would have acquired them all, one way or another, had the final 4 SR been Chases.

As long as the game continues, and they make cool figures, I'll keep buying, Chases or no.

[Miraclo]

I had to go with the middle option because anything else would be going backwards.

IMHO the rairty model still needs a little smoothing. I would like to see more of the value spread around in the set. Especially now that the already too difficult to complete SR level has been made even moreso with the addition of four more slots I'd like to see SRs made a little more common and the Rares made slightly more rare.

If this proves too difficult to do, then stick with the model used in WoS. I am not interested in seeing chases return... because the SRs are already a bit too much of a "chase" factor on their own.

[Nightrob]

I like the chase figures, but something like an ultra rare would be fine... I also like the 16 SR too... guess I am not that hard to please. What I would like to see is more "Rare" figures produced... Lets face it. Rares really aren't very rare at all. Upping rares to say 20 to 24 per set would at least make most boosters worth closer to what you paid for.

[Nightwing-fan]

G-RATED--"HECK NO!!!!!!!" I remember what Wizkids did the "Ultra-Rare" BS release in one of the last sets of Mage Knight. One of our players pulled one out of the 3 cases he normally bought of every release. All 4 of the monsters were impossible to get and when they did show up on ebay they ran from $150 -$200 apiece. He was a fanatic judge/player for both Mage Knight and Mechwarrior. He had every piece they put out and spent loads of money. He did spend almost $200 apiece for those remaining 3 figures. We only saw them one time in play in a MK Dungeons battle as the main villians. As far as anybody knows at my venue he still has all of it packed away at his house. You dont even see them listed on there anymore.

Leave heroclix alone and stop putting out bad ideas like this and leave them all as SRs and that way everyone gets a chance to have the entire set.

[Honorable1]

I say no chase or ultra-rares. Keep it at 16 super-rares. The variant Nightcrawler is fine with me, but thats it.

[No-Name]

Yeah, whatever happened to the Mail-Away figures? Those things were like, the only reason I'd ever buy Wizard Magazine anymore.

[larthosgrr8]

ok, i think the ppl have spoken! no more chases! the poll says it all! turn the lights off on this subject! lol. justin the ppl have spoken!!

[crownroyal578]

Chases were fine, they just need to limit it to 1 or 2 per set. Most of the collectors are only really getting upset when they start doing 4 per set like they did with Supernova, Origin, and BatB. Better yet, do a 1-per-case Chase so that those who buy by the case know that they will be getting one, and won't have to hunt for it.

[larthosgrr8]

Chases were fine, they just need to limit it to 1 or 2 per set. Most of the collectors are only really getting upset when they start doing 4 per set like they did with Supernova, Origin, and BatB. Better yet, do a 1-per-case Chase so that those who buy by the case know that they will be getting one, and won't have to hunt for it.

you still screw all the players who don't have the funds to buy a case with your option. some don't even have enough for a whole brick. no chases makes it so everyone can have a shot at a fig they want without it costing them an arm and a leg!

the red-hulk costs 35 bucks online. if he was a chase he's cost about 3 to 4 times as much. why make players pay insane amounts just to play characters hey like?? cosmic spidey is great. i shouldn't have to pay a bricks worth of money for one figure. crazy thing is, wizkids doesn't see that money most of the time. the shop owners who can afford to open 4-6 cases and sell the extras are the ones who reap those benifits. why screw the common buyer is all i'm asking??

[ChiRocker]

If you have 4 Ultra Rares and make them a definite 1 in every case (which most people would just call chases) it could work. Any less rare than that and they will be as easy or easier to pull than SR's (like if there was 1 in every 10 boosters, then it would take 40 boosters to get them all, which if you get 3 SR's in a brick, you are looking at 40 boosters to get all the SR's, at which point they have equal rarity). Any more rare than 1 per case they are back where they were. I think 4 Chases/Ultra Rares @ 1 per case is the way to go.

[Timeshadow]

I like the idea of Paint/Sculpt Variants as ultra or chase figures. That lets us normal players get the dial to play the game with and lets the "collectors" have fun spending money....:-)

[larthosgrr8]

I like the idea of Paint/Sculpt Variants as ultra or chase figures. That lets us normal players get the dial to play the game with and lets the "collectors" have fun spending money....:-)

QFT!! this idea will make both 'collectors' and players happy!

[Superfly]

Deja Vu. Didn't we just have a poll asking nearly the same thing? Yes we did!

http://hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284240

The results were overwhelmingly in favor of no chases. At least the realms' readers are consistent. Even more supportive of the current model being carried forward than I had expected.

[DSK007]

I'm fine with there being Ultra Rare figures as long as they are considered to be the same as Chase figures. Otherwise, what's the point of another type of Rarity really?

[anodejaninis]

I like Chases when they become a little easier to get, seriously, being that hard makes them easier to get on secondary markets, but if there is An UR that will be in every case then it would be much better.

[Komixfrk75]

Nope don't need them...Don't like chases and that basically what this is...

[Nightrob]

Chases sell cases. If the new 16 SR format works then that is probably how it will be kept... If old sets with chase fig sold more or sold out faster...Well, that is where WK will go. Again, I am fine with it either way.. But if I HAD to choose I would say have 2 chase figs per set. Not 4.

[malakim2099]

I don't get the point, really. You might as well stick with Chases.

I concur. Doesn't seem to be a point.

[Dikarika]

I like the idea of Paint/Sculpt Variants as ultra or chase figures. That lets us normal players get the dial to play the game with and lets the "collectors" have fun spending money....:-)

QFT!! this idea will make both 'collectors' and players happy!

+1

I love the idea of paint and sculpt variant chases.

Especially if it is like the old masterpiece figures.

[Surfer13]

At 1:10 these "Ultra Rares" would be more rare than any SR, but a given "ultra rare" would only be slightly less common than a given SR.

1:40 vs. 1:36.


I say make them 1:20 and make 6 or 8 of them.

Soooo.... Looking over the choices, I have no answer for your poll.

[Hellboy]

resounding!

second poll of this type, and last time aprox 60% polled said "I prefer no chase figures"

in this poll?

currently 70% polled prefer that Chases never return!

WIZKIDS! please listen to these numbers!

[AUKOS]

I don't get the point, really. You might as well stick with Chases.


agreed -

AUKOS

[CarlosMucha]

A new name for Chases?

what is this? Goberment corrupt companies? :p

Heck No! I Love like its on WoS :)

[Danzig01]

Ultra-Rare, by any other name is a Chase.

[XaresXedge]

No thanks.

No Ultra Rares. No Chases.

If they wanna do so-called "chase variants" like the upcoming Nightcrawler, that's fine.

At least that way people can get the pieces they want, and the chase fiends still get something to put value in. The best of both worlds for all parties involved.

But chases shouldn't be needed to increase sales. Just design good sets and people will buy. Don't deliver crap like B&TB and boost it's sales with hot chases.

100% agree here! I am a huge Gl fan and would love to run a theme team of the Blackest Night Comic and it is frustrating to know that I am going to have to buy an amazing amount of boosters to possibly get all of the Chase Lanterns or spend $400+ to just outright buy them.

Chase figures imho dont sell boosters being able to sit down and play a game with awesome pieces with new people, have them love the game and say man these guys are awesome but they"ve got to be really expensive, and for me to reply back with nah alot of these pieces are just common pieces that you can get in a few boosters packs......that kinda stuff sells boosters and gets people interested in the game again.

If you really want chase like figures or variant type figs, then I pray for the day when we have judges again and a solid tournament/prize support program in affect.

I love the new WOS system

[I Am The Game]

I think a few opinions will change once the set is out. Just you wait... Web of Spider-Man SR's are going to be expensive. You'll wish there was a chase to balance things out.

In all, 4 one-per-case figs would be my ideal, like Mech and Mage Knight used to do it. The games didn't last, but dang, did they sell cases and cases of the stuff at my venue, and the case chasers aren't what did them in.

[Hellboy]

I think a few opinions will change once the set is out. Just you wait... Web of Spider-Man SR's are going to be expensive. You'll wish there was a chase to balance things out.

In all, 4 one-per-case figs would be my ideal, like Mech and Mage Knight used to do it. The games didn't last, but dang, did they sell cases and cases of the stuff at my venue, and the case chasers aren't what did them in.


oh no! super rares will be worth something? The sky is falling! Seriously, returning value to the rest of the sets' units at the cost of chase figures is exactly what I HOPE happens!

[maddragon13]

I'm so sick of all the debate about wether there should be chase figures or not. I wanna see NECA/WizKids just do away with them so I never have to read about the pros and cons of chase figures ever again. :tired:

[ShadowMark]

< read first and last page only>

I would like it if they went back to Case Chase figures. one chase per case. It is slightly less rare than a chase, but harder/ rarer than a SR. I am more than fine with this.

[CarlosMucha]

I'm so sick of all the debate about wether there should be chase figures or not. I wanna see NECA/WizKids just do away with them so I never have to read about the pros and cons of chase figures ever again. :tired:

We can make a poll to see if people want to keep talking about chases or not. :)

[maddragon13]

We can make a poll to see if people want to keep talking about chases or not. :)

And to think I once respected what you had to say around here... :p

[IronRaptor]

I'm glad to see an overwhelming majority in favor for no UR/Chases.

[CarlosMucha]

I'm glad to see an overwhelming majority in favor for no UR/Chases.

That were part of Tuttle DARK age. I think we are in new Golden Age of Heroclix now without him, Neca is doing things in an awesome so far and we may don't see chases/hyper rares anymore. unless Tuttle comeback. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[profzoom]

I dont buy boosters. All i do is buy figures straight from ebay etc so chases mean 50-75 british pounds for each chase. All figures should be common.

[ShadowMark]

That were part of Tuttle DARK age. I think we are in new Golden Age of Heroclix now without him, Neca is doing things in an awesome so far and we may don't see chases/hyper rares anymore. unless Tuttle comeback. :mad: :mad: :mad:

didn't you hear, the Wonder Twins are a chase :laugh::laugh::laugh:;):cool:

[dariustad]

No more chases!

If WK adds Ultra Rares, what's next? Case Toppers? Foil Miniatures?

Leave it as it is. C/U/R/SR is fine. I'm tired of seeing figures I'd really like to own as chase figures.

I know I can handle the lack of chases. I'm actually considering buying a brick this set--something I haven't done since Justice League. Why? No chases and an array of SRs that would be fun to own.

[dariustad]

didn't you hear, the Wonder Twins are a chase :laugh::laugh::laugh:;):cool:

Only half of the figure is chase: Zan. Jayna, however, became something useful: Rare. ;)

[CarlosMucha]

didn't you hear, the Wonder Twins are a chase :laugh::laugh::laugh:;):cool:

They BETTER DON'T! :mad: :angry: :mad: :angry::mad: :angry: :mad:

[Benni K Rok]

I'm not a fan of the way the chase system turned out. Having much better luck than my friend,who struck out with 3 cases and no chases, to my 2 cases and 2 of the same chase, I can say I don't really like the chase system. I really don't like it with large numbers of chases.

I actually happen to think the idea of alternate artwork/style for a chase, with no difference in functionality is a much better solution. When I think of something else that could have been done for WoS as an alternate art style sculpt is make a lady deadpool, still called deadpool, with the exact same stat line, abilities, and cost. Give it a new number in the set, and package it much less often. Collectors still get their special toys to stick in a vault somewhere, and the rest of us don't miss out on anything.

I think an alternative would to go with two different, selectable mail ins per set. They could even go with two of each per household, and still make a ton of money.

[Wombatboy]

No chases and no ultra-rares! I'm still trying to hunt down the SR's from the older sets and that's hard enough.

[Thrumble Funk]

I'm so sick of all the debate about wether there should be chase figures or not. I wanna see NECA/WizKids just do away with them so I never have to read about the pros and cons of chase figures ever again. :tired:

You could always just not read/respond to threads pertaining to topics you don't care about...:noid:

[Beast]

I think a few opinions will change once the set is out. Just you wait... Web of Spider-Man SR's are going to be expensive. You'll wish there was a chase to balance things out.

In all, 4 one-per-case figs would be my ideal, like Mech and Mage Knight used to do it. The games didn't last, but dang, did they sell cases and cases of the stuff at my venue, and the case chasers aren't what did them in.
Only the really popular/powerful SRs are going to sell for a premium.

Much like how Ares sells for more than most of the other SRs in that set.

I expect Deadpool to top the price lists. Simply due to his unexplained popularity.

Most likely Cosmic Spidey, Bag-Man, and Red Hulk will be on the 2nd tier.

And then the others will settle into the usual SR pricing formula.

[krusticlese]

No chases again ever please!

I think 16 SR's will accomplish the same thing 12 SR's and 4 chases do... selling extra product. Online retailers who sell 'full sets' at release need to buy significantly more product to complete those sets as will the average Joe.

Chases that have a dial design unavailable in 'normal' rarity are not fair to people who just want to play all of the dials they can.

However, I would support the idea of a 'paint variant' like with the Nightcrawler figure. Pure collectors will still go nuts, but the average player will have access to the less common variant with the same dial.

Maybe these proposed ' ultra rares' or whatever can just be paint variants at the rarity of 1 per case and make 4 of them... as long as they have the same exact dial as an easier to obtain figure, I couldn't care less. The moment you start making unique dials that are only available if you buy over $500.00 worth of product is when you start pissing people off.



And it looks as if the players have spoken on the issue! Seems like the Pro Chase camp were the loudest barkers in the kennel, but their feelings aren't shared by a majority of Heroclix players on this site.

[malger]

I would support this if they used the old Masterpiece figure model. Let one each of the CUR figures be given a Masterpiece paint job or alternate paint job as well as a certificate of authenticity, with the same dial as the regular figure. Limit each one about 20 figures. Assuming 10000 cases are produced and 20 each of 3 figures there would be 1 masterpiece figure in every 166 cases or so. The rarity of the figure shouldn't be a problem for players because they would still have ready access to the figure and it would give collectors something to strive for.

Feel free to skewer me now.

[charlesx]

From looking at the poll results, I think that the overwhelming majority of responses fall into the "no chase" category. Imagine that.

:cool:

[KillerMothMan]

No chases and no ultra-rares! I'm still trying to hunt down the SR's from the older sets and that's hard enough.

Even taking rid of those will not work. With Chases (Temporarily) gone what becomes the next hardest thing to get? Super Rares, which people will now complain about. If those are gone? Then it would be Rares, and so on and so forth.

Taking rid of one hard thing to get will just raise the other up a notch, while Chases are indeed not on the same level of Super Rares (One in maybe two bricks?) It's removal won't really benefit, I'm sure the last four slots of SR's will be difficult to obtain. Plus it's a great feeling when you do pull a chase and know you have something special, even if it's not altogether fair (I have pulled three chases total and own four, one of my friends hasn't pulled any and I feel horrible for him.)

Hell, in BatB I pulled two Chases (Nekron and BL Superman), yet I still haven't pulled a Flash/GL, GL/GA, Batman/GA, or ShazAdam.

[Carabas]

Heh. I am opposed to even regular super rares, nevermind ultra rares.

Unrealistically speaking, I wish rarity would be done away with alltogether.

[Thrumble Funk]

Even taking rid of those will not work. With Chases (Temporarily) gone what becomes the next hardest thing to get? Super Rares, which people will now complain about.

I have no sympathy for people griping about SRs. SR is a perfectly acceptable rarity scheme, and more easily facilitates trading (even if some pieces are more desired than others).

[apov1]

web of spiderman does have chases 60-64, they just got smart and made them sr's. why would anyone want less of a chance to pull these figures? wizkids made a great choice. I personally find it cheaper to just buy chases on ebay for 90$ than hope to pull them; by making the chases more common I (a 100$ a month ebay buyer) have just become a booster buyer. good idea for wizkids sales, better chance to pull #61-#64 p.s. I know officaly 61-64 arent chases; but if you think about it--- they are in design, theyre just not as unavailable. Final point... the only reason I can see wanting hard to get figures(for a player) is so you can have them and others can't (those who can't afford them) and the only reason that makes sence, is if someone thinks they can't beat other players without their pocketbook backing them up. I'm glad the best of WoS will be available to everyone. Thanks wizkidz and thanks for cosmic spidey

[KillerMothMan]

I have no sympathy for people griping about SRs. SR is a perfectly acceptable rarity scheme, and more easily facilitates trading (even if some pieces are more desired than others).

And I agree, but there is always a fair few that would complain about it. We got a couple of people at our store with terrible luck, and when another player or I pull a SR of some sort they cry about how it's unfair and blah blah blah.

Take into account I buy three times as much as said person, which using the brilliant skill of Math, means I have a greater chance of pulling the figures. Just gets annoying after a while.

[comical]

web of spiderman does have chases 60-64, they just got smart and made them sr's.

They definitely made the right choice in changing them to SRs for this set. I say that based on character selection, though. If The Spot and Mr. Bagtastic were the two chase figures for this set it would have been fine, but not the 4 they had planned. Cosmic Spidey and The Weatherman (DopplerGangMember) would have been disastrous as chases.

[Beast]

Even taking rid of those will not work. With Chases (Temporarily) gone what becomes the next hardest thing to get? Super Rares, which people will now complain about. If those are gone? Then it would be Rares, and so on and so forth.

Taking rid of one hard thing to get will just raise the other up a notch, while Chases are indeed not on the same level of Super Rares (One in maybe two bricks?) It's removal won't really benefit, I'm sure the last four slots of SR's will be difficult to obtain. Plus it's a great feeling when you do pull a chase and know you have something special, even if it's not altogether fair (I have pulled three chases total and own four, one of my friends hasn't pulled any and I feel horrible for him.)

Hell, in BatB I pulled two Chases (Nekron and BL Superman), yet I still haven't pulled a Flash/GL, GL/GA, Batman/GA, or ShazAdam.
That logic makes no sense what so ever.

I really doubt everyone's annoyance and disgust over the Chase sales model is going to shift now to Super Rares. Sure, a few people may gripe that with 16 SRs, getting a whole set is gonna be a bit harder. But I doubt it's going to have a huge impact on SR prices for the set. Because unlike Chases, SR's have a sane ratio. Chases are a weak way for companies to boost sales on mediocre products. NECA/Wizkids don't need to depend on that if they deliver a product that people actually want to buy.

[Beast]

I have no sympathy for people griping about SRs. SR is a perfectly acceptable rarity scheme, and more easily facilitates trading (even if some pieces are more desired than others).
Exactly. SR's appear to be running roughly 1:3. Which is more than acceptable.

[Thrumble Funk]

We got a couple of people at our store with terrible luck, and when another player or I pull a SR of some sort they cry about how it's unfair and blah blah blah.

That's just irritating, IMO.

When people gripe about "fairness" in certain situations, I'm reminded of the greatest piece of advice that I've ever received: The world owes you nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[KillerMothMan]

That's just irritating, IMO.

When people gripe about "fairness" in certain situations, I'm reminded of the greatest piece of advice that I've ever received: The world owes you nothing. Absolutely nothing.

True, I don't mind trading them it, but if they make a big deal of me spending my hard earned cash to buy just a few boosters and pull one it bugs the hell out of me. I already spend way more than I need to on Heroclix and other hobbies, I don't need someone complaining when I pull something worth the money invested. /Rant lol

@ Beast: I could have worded it wrong, but I'm not making it out to be a cry doom and gloom thing. Just where people currently think Chases are the top clix that should be sought after, with them gone it'll just switch to SR's. Not necessarily that prices will skyrocket (Some figures should, look at what Superman Prime was going for for the longest time) just that people will bend over backwards to get these now.

I sorta liked chases, though I hadn't gotten one for the longest time. My first was in Arkham Asylum, pulled the pole Batman (The only figure in the set I REALLY wanted) and I was ecstatic, was a nice feeling. But then I see my friend who hasn't pulled any and how it makes him feel, and how I felt prior to getting one and I understand. I still want a freakin' E2 Superman, fat chance on getting that and Black Hand to complete my BL collection.

[Spider-Dave]

bring back chases and call it a day.

[Beast]

bring back chases and call it a day.
Yes. It's always wise to go against what the majority of consumers want.

[archmage78]

First, I don't have any problem with no chases. If WK was to continue chases, then they shouldn't be in every set and they shouldn't be announced and there shouldn't be 4 of them, there should be no more then 2. Chases would be a lot cooler if we didn't know we were pulling them. They shouldn't be the reason we are buying a case, the coolness of the set should be the reason. If there are chases, make them a happy surprise rather then an expected pull.

As for buying packs, bricks and cases, here is what needs to happen to sell more. Make better sets. I always by a case when a new set comes out, but BatB really made me think twice. I ended up deciding to buy one and was very unhappy with the result. Now with WoS it is totally the opposite, I can't wait to get my hands on it. That set looks awesome, where BatB was, in my opinion "A Total Dud". There was not more then 10 figures that I wanted or will play, and unfortunately 4 of them are the chases; of which 2 I have acquired. Pricing seems to support this opinion, as I have never see SRs go for so cheep on e-bay as they did for this set.

To sum up, the Set should be the reason we want to buy a case, I should want the figures, not just 2 or 4 of them.

[TheVagrantKing]

Looking back at it: I love chases.

Excitement level of pulling a 'Rare'::tired:

Excitment Level of pulling an 'SR': :cool:

Excitement level of pulling a 'chase': :bolt::laugh::bolt::bolt::laugh::grin::bolt::bolt::m-dolphin::m-dolphin::bolt::bolt::laugh:

Being that an 'Ultra Rare' would be in between 'SR' and 'Chase', but closer to SR than Chase, I'd give it a: :rolleyes:

[Thrumble Funk]

They shouldn't be the reason we are buying a case, the coolness of the set should be the reason. If there are chases, make them a happy surprise rather then an expected pull.

To sum up, the Set should be the reason we want to buy a case, I should want the figures, not just 2 or 4 of them.

Yep, 1000% agreed here.

WoS should be a good barometer of what drives sales: a solid set, or sales gimmicks.

[Nightrob]

I don't know why so many people are freaked out over this "Ultra Rare" question. A handful of clix that are about twice as rare than a SR, but maybe half as rare as a Chase? Sounds good to me. Maybe Wizkids should pick a set and give it a try. I don't think it would be the end of the world...unless they choose Dec 21, 2012 to give it a go... Anyway, it might be a happy medium. Will will never know unless it is tried. I wouldn't mind seeing if a system like that works...might be fun. If not, back to whatever way works best. Also, IMO we haven't seen the last of the standard chase format... or maybe we have... I really don't know anymore.

[tchipley]

Chases aren't necessary. This model will move more product since you have a better chance to pull an SR than a chase and you would need to buy at least 2 case to get all the SR's (provided that there are no duplicate SR.)

Being a chase hound myself I prefer this model much better.

Keep it.

[Suttkus]

You could always just not read/respond to threads pertaining to topics you don't care about...:noid:

Wha? Huh? What kind of crazy mad-talk is this? Check yourself into an asylum, man!

***

Looking back at it: I love chases.

Excitement level of pulling a 'Rare'::tired:

Excitment Level of pulling an 'SR': :cool:

Excitement level of pulling a 'chase': :bolt::laugh::bolt::bolt::laugh::grin::bolt::bolt::m-dolphin::m-dolphin::bolt::bolt::laugh:

Being that an 'Ultra Rare' would be in between 'SR' and 'Chase', but closer to SR than Chase, I'd give it a: :rolleyes:

I wouldn't know, I never pull the blasted things. I pulled one, way back in Origins. Not one since. So, really, the excitement of pulling them isn't doing much for me. (At least the Origins one was the one I really wanted.)

[Lord Logan]

No. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh where there are 16,000 different rarities!

[kzcmzd]

I would vote for the Ultra Rare figure if they hired PhoenixForce (Myke dela Paz) to create and paint the figure.

[Jarosa]

Like you get a guarantee of at least 1 Ultra Rare per case maybe 2. Better odds than a chase. Otherwise it's just a chase if there isn't a guarantee of at least 1. More than 4 Ultra rare figures wouldn't be cool either unless they're more available than a chase.

[ccs]

I like the idea of Paint/Sculpt Variants as ultra or chase figures. That lets us normal players get the dial to play the game with and lets the "collectors" have fun spending money....:-)

This is a fine aproach to take. But everyone (including WK) simply needs to be honest & call those paint/sculpt variants what they are - chase pieces.
There's nothing saying a chase item for a game has to be uniquely powerfull, niche, highly demanded, etc. Rarity alone is the sole criteria. Were the BL zombies commons? They'd still be cool & desired figs, they just wouldn't carry the price tag they do. Another great example is Queen Hyppolita{sp?} - she does nothing unique gamewise. At best she's only ever been OK. There's common figs that are more play worthy. We give/throw these commons away. But even today the Queen'll cost you $40-$50 average. Why? Rarity.

Right now we have a situation where WK has flat out lied to you.

They said there's no chases.
Their actions however - making a 1:10 paint variant of Nightcrawler - say something completely different & is exactly the same as when any other toy company does this. McFarlane, Hasbro, Mattel (think of the "Treasure Hunt" Hot Wheel cars), alternate "incentive" comic book covers, cards (gaming or otherwise), etc. Pick one. They all make "chase" pieces. And they admit it.
WK though....

Will the Nightcrawler variant be valuable? Maybe, maybe not.
(I'm predicting it to land right beside other weak chases such as Ultimate Giant Man, Steel, & the Bat-Sentry)

[Thrumble Funk]

Will the Nightcrawler variant be valuable? Maybe, maybe not. (I'm predicting it to land right beside other weak chases such as Ultimate Giant Man, Steel, & the Bat-Sentry)

Going for about $45 on eBay, last I checked. Granted, the card is signed, and it is a pre-release fig, but still.

I'm sure there will be some interest. Collectible games tend to have a lot of type-As.

[Beast]

Right now we have a situation where WK has flat out lied to you.
I wouldn't consider it a lie. It's not technically a chase.

It's a variant piece. Simple as that. No different than an action figure variant.

Yes, it's going to be hard to find most likely. But most people arn't going to care.

It's not a unique sculpt with a unique dial that only those lucky few will get to use.

[comical]

This is a fine aproach to take. But everyone (including WK) simply needs to be honest & call those paint/sculpt variants what they are - chase pieces.
There's nothing saying a chase item for a game has to be uniquely powerfull, niche, highly demanded, etc. Rarity alone is the sole criteria. Were the BL zombies commons? They'd still be cool & desired figs, they just wouldn't carry the price tag they do. Another great example is Queen Hyppolita{sp?} - she does nothing unique gamewise. At best she's only ever been OK. There's common figs that are more play worthy. We give/throw these commons away. But even today the Queen'll cost you $40-$50 average. Why? Rarity.

Right now we have a situation where WK has flat out lied to you.

They said there's no chases.
Their actions however - making a 1:10 paint variant of Nightcrawler - say something completely different & is exactly the same as when any other toy company does this. McFarlane, Hasbro, Mattel (think of the "Treasure Hunt" Hot Wheel cars), alternate "incentive" comic book covers, cards (gaming or otherwise), etc. Pick one. They all make "chase" pieces. And they admit it.
WK though....

Will the Nightcrawler variant be valuable? Maybe, maybe not.
(I'm predicting it to land right beside other weak chases such as Ultimate Giant Man, Steel, & the Bat-Sentry)

I disagree completely.
When they said that HoT sold out at SI numbers, that was a lie. Or a mistake that they refused to acknowledge when they found out. :)
This is not.
Chases are different from variants. The dials are the same, the figure is the same, with a different piece of printing on the plaque that is meaningless to game play or aesthetics.

"Chase" isn't only about rarity, but also desireability.

They also came out and told us why they were asked to do it that way. It wasn't even the way they planned the figure. It was Marvel that forced the issue. I don't know how Wizkids and Marvel came to agree on the 10% ratio, but unless you know that was a Wizkids idea, then you can't really call the no-chase declaration incorrect, and even if it were their idea it still wouldn't be an outright lie.

[comical]

This model will move more product since you have a better chance to pull an SR than a chase ...

But isn't this like saying that the lottery would sell more tickets if you had a 25% chance of winning, but would double your money when you do win?

I'm not yet convinced. I also think this is a great set, and would do really well either way so we won't really know even after it's released.

[Beast]

But isn't this like saying that the lottery would sell more tickets if you had a 25% chance of winning, but would double your money when you do win?

I'm not yet convinced. I also think this is a great set, and would do really well either way so we won't really know even after it's released.
And we won't even know then, cause they're not going to reveal sales numbers.

[Superfly]

To sum up, the Set should be the reason we want to buy a case, I should want the figures, not just 2 or 4 of them.

Exactly. My enthusiasnm for this set is at an all-time high because I love the theme and the characters included in this set. THAT is why I ordered two cases, not my desire or hope to pull a chase figure. That fact that this set has 16 SRs and 0 chases was just icing on the cake for me.





PS I also agree that TB&TB was an absolute dud in terms of appeal. Like you, I felt there were very few pieces in the set that I really wanted to pick up, and four of them were the chases. It was obvious to me that these four figures were included "last minute" to help drive sales of this weak set. There have only been two Heroclix releases that I did not buy a case of. TB&TB was one of them. I am very much hoping that the next DC release is all kids of spectacular fun and makes up for the disappointing TB&TB release.

[Ed0825]

Sure. Whatever is fine with me. I do wonder though why the chase model was abandoned (for this set at least) since it seemed to be working pretty well.

I hate to call forth a quote from Tuttle, but when chases were first introduced years ago, they said they wouldn't be in every set. A couple of sets did not have them, they had vouchers for Galactus and Starro instead. Chases might just be taking a set off. I do expect them to happen again in the future, just not every set. They want to keep us guessing.

[Nightrob]

I'm just going to make about 10 clix figures out of Playdough and write 10 cards out of line paper and crayon and when random shoppe keepers who sell Heroclix aren't looking I will rip open random boosters, shove my home-brew clix and quickly duck-tape the box closed! No one will ever know the difference!

Now there will be chase figures again!!!! Soooo, if/when you see one of these lumpy Duck-taped boxes there just might be a special surprise in it!