Invincible (I felt he needed an update)

[thebigmanx]

So I decided to make a bad ### Invincible (cause I love him). I have no idea what his point value would be (I would say near 300 - 350, but I am bad at doing point values). Any advice or input is welcomed (especially the wording on the second special power, any idea to make it sound better would be appreciated.

Invincible
Team:
Range: 0 :bolt:
m-wing-transa-normald-indomitableg-normal1212195121118510111851010184910184910174891738916369163411155KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - "Get Out Of My Way": Invincible can use charge, flurry and automatically breaks away, If Invincible uses charge without flurry, do not half his movement for charge.
Defense - "I didn't say it hurt": Invincible can use Defend, When this character would take damage, roll a six sided dice, on a result of 4, 5, or 6, this character does not take damage. Penetrating damage dealt to Invincible is treated as non-penetrating, but this power only succeed on a 6 then.

Trait Invincible can use Invulnerability. Invincible's powers can not be canceled, countered, or ignored.

I really liked what Traitorarmor did with the dial, scroll down and look at his version of Invincible.

[Slade Wilson]

Feels a little too much for him.

[traitorarmor]

So I decided to make a bad ### Invincible (cause I love him). I have no idea what his point value would be (I would say near 300 - 350, but I am bad at doing point values). Any advice or input is welcomed (especially the wording on the second special power, any idea to make it sound better would be appreciated.

Invincible
Team:
Range: 0 :bolt:
m-wing-transa-normald-indomitableg-normal1212195121118510111851010184910184910174891738916369163411155KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - "Get Out Of My Way": Invincible can use charge, flurry and automatically breaks away, If Invincible uses charge without flurry, do not half his movement for charge.
Defense - "I didn't say it hurt": Invincible can use Defend, When this character would take damage, roll a six sided dice, on a result of 4, 5, or 6, this character does not take damage. Penetrating damage dealt to Invincible is treated as non-penetrating, but this power only succeed on a 6 then.

Trait Invincible can use Invulnerability. Invincible's powers can not be canceled, countered, or ignored.

What is the movement icon?

I like the SPs you have for him........maybe a bit on the 'too-powerful' side(looking at the defence one) but with a tweak or two they would be golden.

But I think the part that stand out to me as 'off' the most is the :star:.

This (http://imagecomics.com/gallery2/g2data_373ph4nt/albums/comics/2009-06/invincible63_cover.jpg) (warning for those with weak constitutions to Kirkman-style battle damage) does not look like someone who deserves that kind of :star: over 10 clicks of life.


I love me some Invincible though. :cool:

[thebigmanx]

Well do you think I should drop the part about him not being able to be countered, Ignored, or Canceled? Cause I think that the Invulnerability is good.

[traitorarmor]

It is your dial so you can do what ever you like but if i were to tweak it I would start with something like this..........




Invincible
Team:
Range: 0 :bolt:
m-winga-normald-indomitableg-normal1212195121118510111851010184910184910174891738916369163411155KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - "Get Out Of My Way": Invincible can use charge, flurry and automatically breaks away, If Invincible uses charge without flurry, do not half his movement for charge.
Defense - "I didn't say it hurt": Invincible can use Defend, When this character would take damage, roll a six sided dice, on a result of 4, 5, or 6, this character does not take damage. On a roll of 6, penetrating damage dealt to Invincible is treated as non-penetrating but still deals damage reduced by 2.
:star: Invincible's powers can not be canceled, countered, or ignored. Reworded and tweaked

1) Oh that was :m-wing-trans: on movement......yeah I'd drop that in favor of just :m-wing: If he can't have his powers countered it's kinda redundent for the first 7/10 clicks.

2) The Defence SP (not sure I made the wording any better :p) now just changes penetrating to normal damage, which is a big deal. Also I'm leary of 4,5,6 powers right now as I want to see Spiderman(Red/Blue) in practice and see how often people complain about him being too hard to hit (possibly serving large potions of humble pie for some members of the realms :p).

3) The trait.........I'd really look at that. The INV is redundent for 5/10 clicks where he has his Defence SP. So I'd take that out and add defence reducers to the dial.....some INV and some Tougn.

The powers can't be canceled, countered, or ignored part would do some kirkman-style violence to game balance but I like the concept.

Maybe something along the lines of....'Invincible's powers can not be countered. When any game effect (object, BFC, character powers, event dials, ect) would ignore Invincibles powers or abliities roll d6, on a result of 4-6 Invincible's powers/ablilities are not ignored. This effect lasts until the begining of Invincibles next turn.'.................but you know, worded much much better. :p

That is still all kinds of powerful, possibly still too much, but it would be a start IMHO.

Something like that and probably some more......but that would be a good start. I liked the general feel of the first dial........I'm a fan of Brick type figs with Defend tacked on to SPs........I think that would be really interesting as it would play slightly different than Defenders/JSA do, and I like them as well.

[W.I.T]

No offense, but that is way too powerful. That dial would smoke any other non-colossal dial in the game. Easily.

He can HSS in with a heavy object, and smoke a figure for 7 Damage. If he has any movement left, he can then pick up another object, and park himself next to a figure to wait. Pulse Wave doesn't affect him, he's got a 19 Defense, he can only be 'hurt' 50% of the time, and 1/6 he can shrug off Penetrating Damage. Next turn, parked next to a figure, he can do 5-7 clicks of Penetrating damage himself, without pushing.

I realize this is 'Dream and Desires', but that is a little bit excessive. Easily 400+ points.

[thebigmanx]

W.I.T
I see what you are talking about but I kinda based it off the Superman chase figure 100.
Impervious has a 33% chance of success. My special power is 50%, so yeah it is better. Superman does not take pushing damage, neither does mine. Superman can make a free close combat attack as a free action, mine has nothing like that, so Superman can deal with swarm teams better. Superman also has better defense than Invincible with higher attack (one more 12). I am thinking about changing the trait to what traitorarmor has but a little different.
Trait Invincible's powers and abilities can not be countered
That way he will be affected by pulse wave and if he is mind controlled, they can cancel his powers.

With all these things, I think that Invincible's point value would be near 340 or so, maybe even lower.

[W.I.T]

W.I.T
I see what you are talking about but I kinda based it off the Superman chase figure 100.
Impervious has a 33% chance of success. My special power is 50%, so yeah it is better. Superman does not take pushing damage, neither does mine. Superman can make a free close combat attack as a free action, mine has nothing like that, so Superman can deal with swarm teams better. Superman also has better defense than Invincible with higher attack (one more 12). I am thinking about changing the trait to what traitorarmor has but a little different.
Trait Invincible's powers and abilities can not be countered
That way he will be affected by pulse wave and if he is mind controlled, they can cancel his powers.

With all these things, I think that Invincible's point value would be near 340 or so, maybe even lower.

Admittedly, I haven't read 'Invincible' since about the 3rd trade came out. I don't know what his power levels should be at, but should he be better than E-2 Superman? I am not a Superman fan, so that's not the issue.

Even at 340 points, he takes E-2 apart. Add a cheap Outwit to Invincible's team, and it gets worse. Invincible get's first strike, due to his larger Movement. Superman takes 7 Damage. It's not pretty.

It's your dial, and your dream, so I won't say it's 'wrong'. If you made some changes to it, it would be less overpowered. Again, it's your dial, so you can do as you want. If that dial ever got made, I'd play it :p

[bill4935]

Invincible is not even the Superman-equivalent of his universe. He's the son of Earth's mightiest hero. Even right now, after 70-80 issues, he's not as strong as Omni-Man.

So I would give him a dial that's less powerful than what Omni-Man has right now. Maybe 9 clicks, 5 of INV, 4 of Toughness. Probably only a single special power, and it would replace HSS entirely, because I see him as slamming into his foes, but not flying away again after.

I wouldn't give him natural damage over 4, and 0 clicks of Exploit Weakness. I'd start with :a-fist:10, but maybe increase his defense a point or two from the current dial.

bigmanx, I like your enthusiasm, and you've got some good ideas, but what I'm getting from reading Invincible lately is that Mark gets beat up and hurt really badly, and it happens a lot. To me that means a dial around 140-150 points.

#008 E Invincible
Team: Guardians of Globe
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 151
Keywords: Guardians of the Globe, Teen, Viltrumite
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101018412111741010173991639915389172891627816288152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Flying Tackle: Invincible can use Charge. He can use it normally, or if he is not using the Carry ability, he can move up to his full speed value before making his attack.

[thebigmanx]

Well, yes he is the son of the Superman of his universe, but he has taken out all of the JLA of that universe as well. He even said he is almost as strong as his dad. Yes, Invincible gets hurt a lot, but it is because he fights the strongest and most vicious. Conquest was the last big fight, and I would say Conquest was at (maybe even stronger) the Strength of Superman, and he won (with a little help). I would also say that his father, Omniman has become stronger (he would need a new dial too). So I would honestly say that (while it may also be the fan boy in me) that Invincible should be near this level of power (ok, I understand that Invincible would/should be weaker, but come on, it's my dial).

[lasdiggy]

Cough, "fanboy", cough !

[MopedKid86]

He's WAY too powerful. Invincible should never be more powerful than the Omni-Man dial he came with. Period.

[darkjacen]

It's a bit too much even for Invincible. He deserves Invul but not a whole dial of it. Also it was shown more than once throughout the series that he can be outwitted. He's a hot head (just like most Viltrumites) and often because of that he takes on more than he can chew.

Try something along the lines of KC Supes. A lot cheaper in points but the sheer damage output is impressive.

[Dremak]

Also need a new Alan the Alien, who now approaches or surpasses Invincible and Omniman in damage output if not durability. He should have some sort of super regen after which he becomes stronger. Like:

Trait: At the end of each turn, if Alan has less than two action tokens, heal Alan one click of damage. If Alan was healed this way put a "saiyan?" token on his card. For every 3 tokens on Alan's card increase all of his combat values by 1.

Give him Invulnerability into toughness (no impervious), superstrength, hss/charge, etc. Lower attack values, highish damage values, lower defense values. Maybe I'll mock it up later...

[MopedKid86]

Also need a new Alan the Alien, who now approaches or surpasses Invincible and Omniman in damage output if not durability. He should have some sort of super regen after which he becomes stronger. Like:

Trait: At the end of each turn, if Alan has less than two action tokens, heal Alan one click of damage. If Alan was healed this way put a "saiyan?" token on his card. For every 3 tokens on Alan's card increase all of his combat values by 1.

Give him Invulnerability into toughness (no impervious), superstrength, hss/charge, etc. Lower attack values, highish damage values, lower defense values. Maybe I'll mock it up later...

If you really want an Allen, look no further than AA wonder Woman. Even has the Warrior Keyword in common.

aa023 V Wonder Woman
Team: Justice League
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 248
Keywords: Amazon, JLA, Justice League, Politician, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-indomitableg-starburst10121851012184811175811174711174710174710173891638916389153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Tie Up: Wonder Woman can use Super Strength and Incapacitate (as if she had a range of 6). When she uses Incapacitate and successfully hits a target opposing character, you can give an action token to a second opposing character that has zero or one token that is adjacent to the target, if the attack roll would also hit the second character.

(Defense) Bullets and Bracelets: Wonder Woman can use Invulnerability. When Wonder Woman is the target of a ranged combat attack, she can use Super Senses.

(Damage) Ambassador: Wonder Woman can use Leadership and Perplex (though she can target only other characters).

The Tie-Up power's not the best, but everything else checks out. And not only is he overall stronger than Omni-Man, he's a bit slower (Allen hasn't really performed any feats of ridiculous speed anyway.)

As far as Invincible, I'd still say 180 max.

[Rurouni KJS]

So I would honestly say that (while it may also be the fan boy in me) that Invincible should be near this level of power (ok, I understand that Invincible would/should be weaker, but come on, it's my dial).

Yes. But it should be a dial in keeping with the scale of the game we play. The dial you've created is more powerful than any ever seen in HeroClix short of a colossal.

I agree with others; a HC representation of Mark presently would be a little less powerful than the original Omni-Man dial. Lose that dial's EW, add a click of HSS and drop a couple clicks of life = Invincible now.

[BigSoph]

Mark has increased in power by a LOT over the last few years of the comic

How do you reflect, in game terms, the damage capacity of a Viltrumite? Maybe one option is "Invincible can use Toughness. All damage taken by Invincible is replaced by 1."

This would allow Mark to be hurt but it is really, really hard to drop him

Nolan has even remarked that Mark's power has increased. The Allen the Alien and Mark clix that exist are woefully inadequate to what they are now

Even Nolan should be, roughly, like the Crisis Black Adam click, less the 4 range

[Manchine]

Invincible is not even the Superman-equivalent of his universe. He's the son of Earth's mightiest hero. Even right now, after 70-80 issues, he's not as strong as Omni-Man.

So I would give him a dial that's less powerful than what Omni-Man has right now. Maybe 9 clicks, 5 of INV, 4 of Toughness. Probably only a single special power, and it would replace HSS entirely, because I see him as slamming into his foes, but not flying away again after.

I wouldn't give him natural damage over 4, and 0 clicks of Exploit Weakness. I'd start with :a-fist:10, but maybe increase his defense a point or two from the current dial.

bigmanx, I like your enthusiasm, and you've got some good ideas, but what I'm getting from reading Invincible lately is that Mark gets beat up and hurt really badly, and it happens a lot. To me that means a dial around 140-150 points.

#008 E Invincible
Team: Guardians of Globe
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 151
Keywords: Guardians of the Globe, Teen, Viltrumite
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101018412111741010173991639915389172891627816288152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Flying Tackle: Invincible can use Charge. He can use it normally, or if he is not using the Carry ability, he can move up to his full speed value before making his attack.

Its INVINCIBLE! I think the only thing I would change in this is an increase in attack, exploit weakness instead of Close Combat Expert and willpower at the end. As of late (when he has fought conquest) he has shown all this.

[BigSoph]

Omni-Man: should be around 200-210 (he is? Awesome!)
Invincible: should be around 175-185 now
Allen: should be around 195-205 now

I think Mark has demonstrated some degree of indomitable... especially in both of his fights with Conquest

I would be surprised if Kirkman did not have his own daily shipment of red ink for the fight scenes - in case you are wondering, Invincible is far more 'realistic' in combat than Marvel or DC. The Viltrumites use a kind of karate chop maneuver to sever arms off opponents and can take INCREDIBLE punishment. Supers in fights get broken limbs, severed limbs, torsos punched through, heads butted until they split, intestines pulled out, jaws punched off faces, etc.

[Manchine]

I don't know think he should have indomitable through his whole dial. It didn't seem like it was nonstop action until he got hurt some.