Changing Support to be like Regeneration?

[eagletsi]

Our group has been seeing a lot of teams with multiple medics. We have been trying several rules such as 1 medic per team excetra. Now on this site the heroclix maker has said in his post medics are not being used they way they were meant to be.

Last week, a suggestion was made by one of our players who said lets make support like regeneration. Meaning you roll a D6 and subtract 2 from the roll. We tried last week and it seemed to work well, as now support was not as easy to use. Thus making it more like the comic books. Our group will probably use this rule as a house rule.

What does everyone else think?

eagletsi

[LurkMaster2000]

i think support is fine the way it is. i mean, you already have to roll to make a successful healing attempt.

i think they made regeneration be dice roll - 2 because it's automatic. if you want to regenerate, you regenerate -- but only if you roll 3 or more.

i would subtract 1 from support at most, but that's it.

[rabidroadkill]

I kind of like how healing is in Dungeons. Maybe not the ability to heal yourself, but how even if you are adjacent to an enemy, you can still heal, only at +2 to the targets defense. Other than that, yeah it sucks when someone flies FL away and heals back to full with a roll of 6, but thems the breaks. I wouldn't be opposed to a change, but I don't really care or think we NEED one.

[shin-goji]

Medics universally usually have low attack values, can be easily swatted by even the clumsiest thug, and occupy valuable points that could be spent on upgrading figures to E or V levels. Having multiple medics on a team is neither unbalancing nor cheesy. I like how they work as is. you're not guarenteed a successful medic roll, and you still have to roll for health which can end up being a measley 1. Personally, if you want to make up house rules, that's fine. I think they are ok as is :)

[webhead817]

If it were up to me, I'd halve the number of clicks that support heals, so a 1 or 2 would heal 1 click, 3 or 4 would heal 2, and a maximum of 3 clicks of healing for rolling a 5 or 6. That way, it would just as it does not, but would only be half as effective.

[drmood]

Originally posted by webhead817
If it were up to me, I'd halve the number of clicks that support heals, so a 1 or 2 would heal 1 click, 3 or 4 would heal 2, and a maximum of 3 clicks of healing for rolling a 5 or 6. That way, it would just as it does not, but would only be half as effective.

This one gets my vote. And while we're at it, why don't we change regeneration to be like leadership...you just roll at the beginning of your turn.

[Thomthemonk]

doctor mood is onto something. it could be like leadership but maybe drop it down to d6-3 because its not using an action.

[Thorgrin]

I think the d3 approach is probably the most balanced. It does take an attack roll to hit as opposed to regeneration of either working or not.

With that said, a little change to the rule may be needed. Again, I agree that you have to roll an attack roll, but by the time you're trying to heal someone up, their defense level is pretty low anyway, so it's almost a given you're going to get the roll done.

If you do it via the regeneration way (which would yield a potential of 4 clicks of healing), I would at least put a minimum of 1 to the roll.

[shin-goji]

What is everyone's problem with healing? If your reference involves the Firelord Yo-Yo tactics of fly up, shoot, take damage, run screaming back to a medic; use another argument. One figure does not call for an overhaul of the game. I'm not being abrasive, I just can't figure out why everyone [or at least the poster to this thread] want to change healing.

[eagletsi]

We are trying to add some realization to healing. Not everyone body can be healed by normal medicine. Superman, Vision, Ultron etc, our point is sometime you might not be able to heal the injured. Thats why we implement the D6-2 roll. If you roll 2 or less the healing is not able to work due to unique body structures, etc.

[DoomX]

support is much better than regeneration in my experiences. yes support does require a hit and THEN a roll to heal but as someone else pointed out by the time your trying to heal someone their defense is usually pretty low. and a checkmate medic having 8 atk isn't that low at all. if they all had 6 atk like the shield medic i think things would be much better but *shrugs* ah well.

regeneration is good, no need to change it. its just not as powerful as support used correctly. -2 from the support roll sounds pretty balanced to me. my gaming group and i won't use generic medics, but maybe this can sway it.

support as is isn't destroying the game, its just a tad much.

[bakija]

Eagletsi wrote:
>> Last week, a suggestion was made by one of our players who said lets make support like regeneration. Meaning you roll a D6 and subtract 2 from the roll. We tried last week and it seemed to work well, as now support was not as easy to use. Thus making it more like the comic books. Our group will probably use this rule as a house rule.>>

I've often thought that changing support from "roll to hit and fix 1-6 damage" to "don't roll to hit, but fix 1D6-2 damage" would be a good fix for the ability.

A) Rolling to hit with medics is kind of dumb, as it makes having a low defense, which is supposed to be *bad*, into a benefit, especially on figures that have a lot of clicks and a low defense on many of them. Healing 1d6-2 without a roll to hit is pretty similar to having to roll to hit in any case.

B) It reduces the amount of healing that gets thrown around, which is good.

-Peter

[bakija]

Shin-goji wrote:
>>I just can't figure out why everyone [or at least the poster to this thread] want to change healing.>>

Because it is not reflective of the source material for one and because the game tends to revolve around it for two.

In comics, it is very rare for heroes to go running to a medic in the middle of a fight--Thor or the Vision don't take a break from fighting Kang to run back for some morphine--stat! I'm the last guy to care about fanboy arguments about "comic realism", but the game is based on a specific source material, and the existance of medics makes game play very different from the what the source material portrays.

As medics are so powerful and create such a game swing, medics on the field tend to dominate play--the whole game revolves around who kills who's medic first, who gets the best use out of their medic, and who accidentally misses a healing roll.

Do medics make the game unplayable? Absolutely not--the game works just fine with healing, but many folks feel that the game would be more enjoyable if healing was less prevelant--harder to use, more expensive, less of a no brainer, whatever.

-Peter

[Mr. Pilkington]

My question on support is this: what the hell is in those medical kits? In a field dressing you could heal a hero up more than an average person even has? (assuming thugs are average)

I can see Dr. Strange's healing working like that... he is a magic user. But a Hydra Medic? It does not seem to fit well with the game. The Hulk can hit you (without an object) for 5 clicks, but a medic can heal you back up to more than that? And characters with insane healing factors (i.e. Regeneration) can only get back 4? And sometimes it just doesn't work? I understand that Support requires more than Regen (adjacency to medic, no enemies adjacent, successful attack roll) but I don't think that it should heal as much, regardless of what situation it is used in.

I like the d3 idea a lot. If you hit with the attack roll you are guarenteed to heal some amount (unlike Regen which does not have any other check in place) but you cannot heal them to as great an extent.

But that's just me. From a comics feel of it I personally don't think full-blown medics should be around. Limiting the amount of healing would make me less annoyed at them existing.

[eagletsi]

Our group has seen games where some teams have medic's that can dominate the game. In most comic books almost no one gets healed until after the battle. I just think something needs to be done to bring it in check. I like your idea of healing half of what you roll. Except for the fact as I stated above that Superman might not be able to be healed by normal doctors, because of his thick skin and alien body. Thus I like the D6-2 like regeneration.

Ex. Superman is fighting Doomday. Superman breaks and runs to the medic the medic takes out his stimulatant and tries to inject it into Sups, but the needle breaks.

Actions:
medic rolls a 2 on the Roll for healing 2-2=0 and thus can't heal that turn. I could see it happen with lots of characters. It's quite possible that the medic has some special needed that is tipped with Krytonyte, etc. Medic rolls a 4-2 = 2 sups is healed 2 etc.

Oh well let the debate continue.

eagletsi

[Thor665]

Greetings,

I'm not sure what the vast medic debate is for. I agree that the "source material" doesn't lend itself to medics. But neither does it lend itself to walk up -wait- then attack. Nor does it "lend" itself to taxis, Juggernaut teaming with Prof. X, a Vampire Lackey capable of doing more damage then Hulk, people with stealth hiding in microwaves, ect.

It's a stratagy game based around comic book characters, not a battle game to recreate comic book battles exactly as they happened in comic books.

Personaly I can play with a medic, or I can play without. Sometimes I like the possibility of easy healing. Sometimes I just want to upgrade my E Bullseye to V status. Sure I've dealt with teams that after a few blows go streaming back to the medics. I don't really care. If they're running they aren't fighting, and that means I can hunt them down and perform a dance of destruction till the game ends with me in my opponents starting area and a smile of victory on my face. I don't find them unbalancing. I admit if an opponent has one and a Firelord I make sure I inflict nine health levels of damage to cheese-boy in one turn *or* base him with a plasticity person after hitting him down to his "I'm-a-freakin'-wuss" clicks. (The joys of Clayface smacking Firelord silly is highly pleasant.

Is the support power unbalanced? I think not.
Yes they can roll a six, but I've seen (and rolled) manay a one or two in my day. (Gee, I wasted an action to run back here, an action to heal, I'm back up two clicks and the other team is tromping all over everyone else who I left at the front...oh pootie)

Does it adapt play style? Yes, I have to do different things to win.
By the by, I have to do the same thing to adjust for outwit, perplex, hypersonic, invulnerability, stealth, probability control, and a dozen other things.

Maybe I've just not played against people who play medics like some of you have faced. I *have* faced up to three medics at one time. But honestly that seems like a vast waste of points that could have bought somebody to be smacking my team around instead of sitting uselessly back at your start position. Sure sometimes being without a medic can blow if your two best characters have been slapped silly, but by that point in the game you've probably lost anyways and I'm not sure what a medic will do for ya.

In conclusion; I really don't feel much of a need to alter the way medics are handled. (unless maybe you get a medic with 10 attack and probability control too for about 20 points; *that* would annoy me)

My opinion on the matter,
Thor.