what is the big deal about shadowcat?

[LurkMaster2000]

not a big comics reader here, but why is shadowcat so popular?

e.g., why does the seemingly accurate pineapple have her listed as an R/E/V and unique, and then talk about her being a Limited Edition prize as well?

and i noticed quite a few of clix fans requesting her back during the "what figs do you want for the next marvel expansion set?" days.

from the little i've seen in the comics, she should have phasing. perhaps super senses. i have no clue if she's a brawler or not, but if she was, i would guess she'd be as strong as nightcrawler?

would she have outwit or something? if not, then i don't see the point of her. she would seem like just a cheaper version of ntcrwlr w/ phasing instead of HS speed because the whole point of ntcrwlr is being able to attack and move in the same round.

[Doctor Strange]

You pretty much got it. Shadowcat is not a powerhouse. If you were making an allstar team of the most powerfull people in comics, she wouldn't make the mark.

She's popular because of her personality and how cleverly she uses her abilities. Its really about how fun it is to read the character. She has stood there and chewed out Loki, an asgardian God, while the rest of the X-men were shaking in their boots. Needless to say, Loki was impressed. She's given countless cool moments (well, at least 3000 cool moments) and thats why she's a favorite.

[shin-goji]

I'm just curious to see if the marquee Shadowcat is lit up like a christmas tree. She should have phasing, but I can't even fathom what else she would have. Definitely a 0 range charatcer.

[LurkMaster2000]

Originally posted by Doctor Strange
She's popular because of her personality and how cleverly she uses her abilities. Its really about how fun it is to read the character. She has stood there and chewed out Loki, an asgardian God, while the rest of the X-men were shaking in their boots. Needless to say, Loki was impressed. She's given countless cool moments (well, at least 3000 cool moments) and thats why she's a favorite.

so... it sounds like a phasing perplexer to me, then. or willpower. i knew she either had to be a valuable powerhouse or a popular character to be getting all this "airtime", so it makes more sense to me now.

[Spidersense]

I think it could be interesting if they put Lockheed hovering around her. Remember him? That could add to her powers. But yeah, I went through the pineapple the other day trying to guess some powers and all I came up with was Phasing.

It may be one of those things that it will be a nice character to have around, even if it isnt Tourney useable. I am glad they have these kind of characters to better fulfill the comic scenarios.

[Doctor Strange]

Yeah.. She's just really tricky to pull off in clix form..

I could understand her with..
Defend
Flight
Outwit
Phasing

Supersenses
Perplex

Amazingly high def. Of course, all those powers would make her cost way more than she should so she's reaslly difficult to balance.

[DS-00-0, FSD]

I'm wondering if they will try to incorporate her ninja training. I know there was a mini-series with she and Wolverine and she is supposedly a fairly good hand to hand expert in it.

Also, her phasing ability also disrupts electronic equipment. Would this be an Outwit/Perplex sort of thing?

They gave Sue Storm a high defensive value and invul/toughness to represent her hard to hit "invisible" state. Will they so something similar for Kitty and her intangible state?

Will she fly?? That is a big deal, as she can carry another person in her phasing state. Since phasing lets you change elevations, it's not as big of a deal if she doesn't have flight, but she will not be able to carry, which would be kind of sad. She could have been the "cheap" X-taxi that everyone's been looking forward to.

I personally am hoping that the Unique is an innovative sculpt, perhaps with Lockheed the dragon (and then she can have a short ranged attack to represent the dragon's firey breath) or a half phased state, either in a translucent plastic, or a half fig on the base, like she's phasing up thru the floor (base).

[Noman]

The latter stories show Shadowcat to have developed some decent Martial Arts skills under Wolvie's tutalage, and also to have wealded a katana under certain circumstances.

She is not a Heavyweight, true, but her phasing powers are death to high tech machinary, power armour, etc.

She should certainly have Outwit and Perplex, Phasing, at least a click of BCF or similar, leap/climb and a few other bits and pieces.

We seem to be getting 5 versions - Rookie (Kitty as "Sprite") Experianced (Kitty and the New Mutants) Veteran (Kitty loves Colossus, faces down Stryker, Beats the Ngari Demon single handed, trashes the mansion etc etc) Katherine Pride (the LE, assumedly with low first couple of clix, and then into Kitty fights the Aliens etc mode) and the Unique (Kitty and Lockheed forever).

It'll be a Pirate Kitty LE next, you mark my words...

At least it's better than Hordes of Electras... LoL

All the Best

Noman

[Aron]

my venue has discussed this issue a few times

A) Lockheed would be cool with her but may wind up his own fig

B) Blades claws on the unique (something to do with logan) *shrug*

Flight, Phasing, Perplex possibly, High def, super senses (phase away before she gets hit) Unlike vision she tends to go intangible rather than become rock hard (since intangibility is her power while density changing is his), so I think that fits better, possibly stealth after she loses phasing....

[Psylockeslover]

Rumor is the U version has lockheed with her giving her a ranged attack. (possible with EE).

Otherwise, I hope she flies so she can cary people around. Thats what she did mostly, phase people through walls and such. Although perplex/outwit would be pretty good too.

[walksthestorm]

I would have to agree that Shadowcat has never been about fighting, more of a character that has the balls, or niavete, to do what others won't. I see her as our cheap Perplex character with phasing, and possibly a seven or eight movement. My question is, the Unique Shadowcat.......... are we looking at Lockheed, AoA, Shield, or Ninja Shadowcat? Personally I am routing for AoA Shadowcat when she was just plain malicious with her phasing and wolverine's claws. A point could also be made for a SHIELD Shadowcat, but the story was lame. I sure wouldn't mind a Lockheed Shadowcat though.

I do have a problem with someone's interpretation of her power levels. Rookie would be early X-Men and New Mutants, Experienced would be Excalibur, Veteran would be returned to the X-Men. Not that there really is that much differance between her levels in game play other than possibly better numbers. Though it would be cool if her Experienced had a short ranged attack to represent Lockheed. Who knows, maybe he will be on the mold from the start.

[de4dp00l]

It's all about the Phasing Taxi. Shadowcat is one of my favorite X-men, so I've wanted a figure of her since I started collecting the game, and my biggest hope for her is a low cost, flying, Phaser. I'm guessing her Rookie will have Phasing, and not much else, and will not have flight. Her Experienced version will probably add flight to the mix, and that's about it. Her Vet will likely add some enhanced damage and attack values. For some reason, I doubt they'll give her Perplex or Outwit, it's just a gut feeling (or maybe that's the pizza I ate for breakfast).

At any rate, I can't wait to see what they do with her.

[Doctor Strange]

The Shadowcat w/ Lockheed on her sholder would by like a dream for me.

So many times in the past I have started to make a custom figure for this, but realized that I don't have the skill level to pull it off.

[MarkFinn]

I never really liked her as a character. She was always kind of a Wesely Crusher for the X-Men. I thought the dragon was dumb, too.

However, she was a part of the John Byrne X-Men, so she may find herself on my team...even though she's not a favorite. We'll see how her dial shakes out.

I won't be interested in the U if she's the Ninja Master from Kitty Pryde and Wolverine. That lame series was part of what chased me away from Chris Claremont's work on the X-Men.

I guess we'll know soon enough, eh?

[LurkMaster2000]

wait wait wait....

shadowcat flies??? when/how did that happen?

[Psylockeslover]

She doesn't actually fly. It's just a way to get her to carry people (through walls, which was her main thing back when I was reading comics)

[LurkMaster2000]

i'd rather have shadowcat have "defend" with a 17 defense, then...

[Psylockeslover]

i'd rather have shadowcat have "defend" with a 17 defense, then...


Also a good possibility....

[Hack-n-slash]

wait wait wait....
shadowcat flies??? when/how did that happen?

She walks on air. She phases people through walls.

In HC, flight's the only way to do either of those.

[Drashia]

Doctor Strange: if Shadow cat with a dragon lurking around is a dream, I'd hate to know what your nightmares are! ;)

Shadowcat with a Soul sword would be nice, though highly improbable

[Psylockeslover]

must have been after i stopped reading...

[sluggo]

I think Shadowcat is going to be the cheap Taxi that the X-Men need - plus she will have phasing which makes her even better as a taxi. Add either super sense's or a high defense (18 or 19) and she'll stay around for a while, against only mkaing her more valuable as a taxi.

I think the Unique version will either be her in her very early days when she can't fly or much later on in her carrer when shes a bit more of a fighting (maybe make her with the claws she wore for a while).

I would personally love a Lockheed figure.

[LurkMaster2000]

Originally posted by Hack-n-slash


She walks on air. She phases people through walls.


okay, that's different then. walking on air definitely counts as "flight."

[Doctor Strange]

Originally posted by Drashia
Doctor Strange: if Shadow cat with a dragon lurking around is a dream, I'd hate to know what your nightmares are! ;)


LOL!

Speaking of the Soulsword, Illyana would be cool in clix form (she could also do a convincing crossover to makeknight)

[aceoswords]

hmmm, i see shadowcat with . . .

stealth - coz she can't be shot when she's "phased out"

defend (hit DV of cors) - coz she makes it hard for others to get hit

phasing - no doubt, but only after stealth to make her effective

and i think that's it, that's all she really needs anyway. flight is optional i guess (to simulate her carrying ability).

she'll be like an "invisible girl" for the x-men, and with that team ability of theirs, she'll be indeispensible!

in the words of butthead, "cool"

[sluggo]

"stealth" - No way. She should have phasing for her whole dial, so no stealth or any other movement power.

defend (hit DV of cors) - coz she makes it hard for others to get hit" - ya, that works

"phasing - no doubt, but only after stealth to make her effective" -She shouldn't have stealth, so Phasing the whole way.

If they want to give her a lower defense (liek 17 or 16) I would give her super senses to represent her becoming intangable as she sees a punch coming at her or something.

[Grinner]

Originally posted by sluggo
"stealth" - No way. She should have phasing for her whole dial, so no stealth or any other movement power.

defend (hit DV of cors) - coz she makes it hard for others to get hit" - ya, that works

"phasing - no doubt, but only after stealth to make her effective" -She shouldn't have stealth, so Phasing the whole way.

If they want to give her a lower defense (liek 17 or 16) I would give her super senses to represent her becoming intangable as she sees a punch coming at her or something.

Definitely agree. Defend with a high DV for a click or 2, then Super Senses the rest of the dial. Phasing the whole dial, flight on the exp & vet versions.

And I'm yet another vote for the "Lockheed on her shoulder" unique idea.

[sluggo]

I wouldn't say a really high def. with defend AND then super sense's - one or the other.

[Taibak]

I dunno, Super Senses somehow seems wrong to me. Yes, Shadowcat has been known to phase as she sees a punch coming, but there's very little reaction time involved. She just thinks intangible and the punch goes right through her. I think high defense is just as good.

On the other hand, I think Defend is a very good fit for her. I'm not that familiar with her time with the X-Men, but in Excalibur she was always using her intangibility to protect people around her. During the team's battle with Stryfe's hunter drones, for instance, she spent the whole time protecting two kids by keeping them phased.

Flight is a good fit for her more experienced versions, to represent her air walking. With Phasing, this should make her a REALLY good taxi. Willpower might not be a bad fit, but not quite as good as Defend. As for her ninja training, those can be represented pretty well just by giving her a semi-decent attributes. She should have a pretty good attack and a damage of around two - able to hold her own against average and above-average fighters, but not strong enough to do much damage to even a light heavyweight like Gatecrasher.

Outwit is a long shot - she's clever and tends to use her brains to get out of trouble, but I can't picture the model relying on this. Perplex just ain't gonna happen.

As for teams, what about making one version a member of S.H.I.E.L.D.? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a mini-series not too long ago where she worked with them? Make a good veteran version for her and give S.H.I.E.L.D. another option for higher point games. Kitty with the Soulsword wouldn't be bad either - no Phasing and no Defend, but turn her into a little brick with B/C/F and Invulnerable and/or Toughness to represent the sword and the armor.

And I really hope Lockheed is his own mini. :-)

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Taibak
I dunno, Super Senses somehow seems wrong to me. Yes, Shadowcat has been known to phase as she sees a punch coming, but there's very little reaction time involved. She just thinks intangible and the punch goes right through her. I think high defense is just as good.

I've said much the same thing on a different thread. My take on the Super Senses part was less "she sees a punch/shot/attack coming and phases to dodge" and more "what are the odds she's phasing when said punch/shot/attack hits," especially since she doesn't look any different when she's phasing, and regularly moves between tangible and intangible in a fight.

[Sartori]

Since (post Mutant Massacre) being intangible is her natural state, I'd give her invuln. or toughness after her clicks of defend run out to reflect her phasing protecting her from damage.

I agree with everyone else re: Phase the whole dial, flight's a must, defend makes complete sense as she makes those near her intangible too. Decent stats to represent the ninja brainwashing.

Maybe outwit when her level reflects her Excalbur years: anyone remember how she was pretty much instrumental in the success of almost ALL of their missions when Claremont wrote the series?

SHILED would be interesting, but for a figure who was only a semi-member for a 3 issue mini? Nah.

See my Kitty customs at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/sartori@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/Heroclix/X-Men&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/

Dave

[Grinner]

Originally posted by Sartori
Since (post Mutant Massacre) being intangible is her natural state

Actually, that was only from the Mutant Massacre until FF vs. X-men (early 1987), where Dr. Doom cured her.

I really like your Kitty mods, especially the one off of Black Widow.

[Ro-gan]

If memory recalls:

I don't think Doc Doom cured Kitty all the way. I believe Doom made the comment that she was cured but it would take time for her to become fully tangible again.

I have since sold the X-Men/FF mini series, so I can't check.

I also think that either in Mechanix or issues of the X-Men/Uncanny X-Men (when Chris Claremont was writing both again a couple or so years ago) she made the comment that intangibility was her "natural state."

And in the beginning issues of X-calibur (which occurred after X-Men/FF mini) she was still intangible and had to focus to become solid. I stopped reading X-calibur after the first 2 years so I don't know if this changed.

Then Again:

She might have made this comment of her natural state being intangible in Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men. In which case my point is moot since Ultimate is not "Mainstream Marvel."

On another note: (hops on Soapbox)

I think the issues from a couple or so years ago when Chris Claremont took over the fabled reigns again were great!

I have heard many detractors of Chris's return to his "family" in my local comic stores. When I read the issues as they came out monthly I did agree with them. BUT, out of respect for Chris, and being a reader of his since the 1980's, I re-read all of them in one sitting (okay, it took a couple days, but you get the idea). The stories made alot more sense this way and were really good. OK, ok, nothing can compare to the Claremont/Cockrum/early-Byrne days, but they were good and still way better than alot of comics out there!

To see how Chris feels about the X-Men pick up his first (?) novel from the late-1980's. The novel was "First Flight" and in the dedication portion of the novel Chris dedicates the novel not to family/friends but to the X-Men (past and present). He refers to all of them in their "real names" not super hero id's.

That shows his attachment to his characters that he made famous worldwide.

(hops off Soapbox)...

[the itsy bit]

like I have said in an earlier thread:
Shadowcat is part of the X-team !
unlike Boom and Jubilee she was an important part of the team (not in the very early years).

flying, no I don't think so. we will have a cheap flyer in another member of the first X-team (Warren Worthington III).

I see her as having phasing (high DV) and outwit.

now before you'll start the fanboy thing again let me explain:

perplex would've been a given (hey wouldn't you be perlexed if she moved out of the wall in front of you ?), she could phase out other figs (adding the +1).
but since Beast didn't get outwit I'd say she would have it.
because she would phase through opponents armour and that would disable there computer gadgets and stuff (even if only for the Vet. version).

[Heimdall]

Hi!

I would give her the following:

1. click: Def 15, Invulnerability, Phasing, Outwit
2. click: Def 13, Invulnerability, Phasing, Outwit
3. click: Def 17, Defend, Phasing, Outwit
4. click: Def 16, Defend, Phasing
5. click: Def 14, Supersenses, Phasing
6. click: K.O.

all versions X-Men beginning damage value 2, only vet. with flight base, unique with Lockheed (Range 6, RCE, standard damage value 1).

Heimdall

P.S.: I don't think the Rookie version will be Kitty in the beginning (so she can start with AV 7) because she took the name Shadowcat after being some time in business (wasn't she named Ariel and Sprite before?).

[Doctor Strange]

Of course Shadowcat does not fly.

Or course not. If you were making a roleplaying character of kitty she wouldnt have the flight superpower..

But this is clix my friend. In clix, flight lets you do 3 things..

A. Carry other people (please, please, never say that shadowcat does't move other people around in the comics)

B. Ignore terrain in regards to movement. check

C. soar. Now, Kitty can not "soar" of course not. But what does soaring do? it lets you completly avoid had to hand combat.. (thats what she does when phased) and it makes ranged attack almost imposible (check again)

On another note, If she has Lockheed: I would hope for 4 range, 2 arrows and energy explosion :D

[Psylockeslover]

Cyclopse-"Hey. We need to infiltrate this building. I know. Nightcrawler, teleport a couple of people in. Kitty, why don't you phase a couple more through the walls...."


Nuff said....

[urlmaker]

Nightcrawler, teleport a couple of people in.

You had to go and bring that up! You know that nightcrawler is forbidden from being a taxi in HC! Plus he can't go through walls on his first few clix! I love NC but those two machanics are hard to get over. :)