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anonym0use
09/06/2010, 11:33
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=11906" style="width:200px;">
Web of Spider-Man

Primer Review
Part 4:Super Rares
Groot (#049) to Cosmic Spider-Man (#064)
Click "full story" below to find out how the Super Rares fare!

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 11:53
Welcome to a Sealed Primer review of Web of Spider-Man.

Please read the set Overview (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286690) and the review of the Common (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286775), Uncommon (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286859), and Rare (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?&t=286928) figures, all of which contain information useful in determining how the set was reviewed.

Please note, for the purposes of this review it will be difficult to rate Alter Egos and Minion figures because there’s no guarantee a player will pull two corresponding AE figures to play together in a sealed event. Players lucky enough to make Army building figures and AE counterparts work, should consider their rating slightly (one shield?) higher.

I use shields to rate the figures.

:d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: - Unplayable in a 300 point format.
:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: - Think twice before committing to this figure.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: - There might be a better choice.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: - an all around average figure
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: - a good figure to build a team around
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: - a winning figure!

Finally, the review is based on the initial Gencon pull report threads, and the units section, which has been updated a few times since I started writing this piece. Please let me know of any discrepancies and I will correct them.

=========================================================

It's been mentioned before, but it bears repeating - these reviews are based on the Wizkids standard 300 point build.

Any figure can be great backed up with enough support. It's fine if you want to disagree with my rating, I encourage talking about how good a figure did for you - just be sure to clarify the circumstances behind your victory. What was your build total? How many people showed up at your venue? It's not saying much if you pop on and tell us you went undefeated with Red Hulk, leaving out that you only faced one opponent or played a 500 point team.

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ws049 V Groot
Team: Defenders
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 152
Keywords: Guardians of the Galaxy, Monster, Ruler
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-giant6101846101836101736101745917459174.13196.131964914249142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Plant Growth: Once during your turn, as a free action you may heal Groot 1 damage if he occupies hindering or water terrain.

(Damage) Floral Colossus Sprout: Non-optional. Groot has the Colossal damage symbol, a range of 4, and can't be moved.

Groot is difficult to KO, a die-hard in the truest sense of the term. Scads of damage reducers, stacked with two types of regeneration is going to frustrate many players. The only upside for opponents is the giant figure's lack of mobility. He can't be carried and that 6 movement all but guarantees a few free shots before this lumbering potato head enters combat - if you have range.

Groot eats up some Miracle-Gro for that amazing colossal status at the back of his dial, which you'd think would be a good thing, though really hinders him. Because his movement drops to 0, and his range maxes out at 4, AND because he's so big, an opposing force only needs to step back and snipe him into fertilizer.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws050 R Red Hulk
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 220
Keywords: Brute
m-boota-fistd-indomitableg-starburst1011173810173810184910184910184891848917589175109175KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Major Earthquake: Give Red Hulk a power action and make a close combat attack targeting each character within 3 squares. Each character hit is dealt damage equal to 4 minus the number of squares it is from red hulk. Characters who can use flight ability automatically evade this attack.

Rulk almost has everything necessary to stand as a one man army, fitting since he was revealed to be:

General Thunderbolt Ross!

At 220 points he'll need every edge he can get: strong combat values, powers that can damage multiple opponents at once (Uber-quake, Poison), move and attack, as well as Leap/Climb. Perhaps most importantly the red rager has Indomitable to avoid pushing damage allowing for consistent attacking.

One thing Red Hulk lacks is range, which may not be necessary, but is certainly helpful. Without it he has to chase down the opposition, and in the case of some figures in WoS that may be impossible. He's cost effective enough to fit one or two support figures (err on the side of Taxi), just beware the Outwit/PB/EW on the opposing side - a well rounded team could bust this Hulk.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws051 E The Spot
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 51
Keywords: M.O.D.O.K.'s 11, Scientist, Spider-Man Revenge Squad
m-transport-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst89181891818917189161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Out of the...Spots?: Once per turn, before The Spot is given a close combat action, you may place him in any square within 6 squares & line of fire that's also adjacent to a wall or to a square of terrain that's blocking for movement purposes.

(Speed) Trans-Dimensional Spots: The Spot can use Flurry and Phasing / Teleport.

Selling points: Taxi and Tie-Up. That's really all Spot is going to do without some serious help. Flurry and 1 damage in a set laden with Toughness makes him a glorified nurse-hunter. Transporter attack is crippled by the AV modifier, and the amount of hindering terrain on the map. Everything this mort offers is done better by someone else in the set, so save a Spot on your team for someone else.

:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

EDIT: I have been informed Spot's dial in the Units section is incorrect.

This is the actual dial.

ws051 E The Spot
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 51
Keywords: M.O.D.O.K.'s 11, Scientist, Spider-Man Revenge Squad
m-transport-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst89182891818917189161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Out of the...Spots?: Once per turn, before The Spot is given a close combat action, you may place him in any square within 6 squares & line of fire that's also adjacent to a wall or to a square of terrain that's blocking for movement purposes.

(Speed) Trans-Dimensional Spots: The Spot can use Flurry and Phasing / Teleport.


Not much has changed, except the 2 damage on top makes him slightly more viable in terms of Flurry and his Out of the Spots SP (just don't push him). It's not a great upgrade, and my complaints about his utility stand, but it is enough to make me give him...

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:


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ws052 U Morlun
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 180
Keywords: Animal, Brute, Monster
m-boota-fistd-indomitableg-starburst811184811184810184710173710173791737917369162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Relentless Pursuit: Give Morlun a power action. You may place him in a square adjacent to an opposing character within his line of fire who has a tracking token, then target that character with a close combat attack as a free action.

(Special) Psychic Vampire: Morlun can use Steal Energy. Whenever Morlun is healed using Steal Energy, you may place a tracking token on the targeted character's card.

Yikes, this guy's got a scary dial. Consistent combat values, scads of damage reducers, and the ability to Teleport across the map and smack someone - with Steal Energy to heal him. Keep in mind the Trait applies tokens only when Steal Energy is used, so it can't be activated on his top dial.

This is the type of figure that will eat a Nightcrawler team alive - literally, then laugh as the elf tries to damage him. At 180 points, he should have enough support to make him win a few rounds.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws053 R Red She-Hulk
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 139
Keywords: Brute
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst891738917389173810173710183710183710184611195KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

The more she's hit, the tougher she gets, compared to most figures in this set who crumble after a solid blow. More than a standard brick She-Rulk brings a little ranged prowess into the mix with RCE, Running Shot, and Psychic Blast giving her options all the way to the end of her dial.

Like her red comrade, she ends with Poison, eliminating weaker foes just by flexing next to them - who knew rage was so toxic? All that for under 150 points? Yowza.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable:

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ws054 U Doctor Octopus
Team: Sinister Syndicate
Range: 4 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 121
Keywords: Scientist, Sinister Syndicate
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst81017189161681628101728916268162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Four Arms and Four Eyes: Dr. Octopus can use perplex four times during your turn but only on himself.

(Damage) Tentacles: Dr. Octopus can use flurry.

(Special) Sinister Mastermind: Friendly characters adjacent to Dr. Octopus with the Sinister Syndicate team ability can't have their speed or attack powers countered

Is it bad that I prefer the dial on the Si Doc Oc? This guy isn't bad - mind you, old four-eyes has Four Arms allowing for an impressive distribution of self-Perplex, giving him a 13 AV or a 4 damage or a 20 Defense.

Really, the dial is great, it's the dial length and price point that has me hesitating. For that amount of investment you'll want to have some Mastermind fodder to back him up, which just inflates his cost further. Hesitations aside, you'll be hard pressed to find better mobile Outwit, and with the right support this Doc could rock.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws055 E Sandman
Team: Spider-Man and Sinister Syndicate
Range: 2 :bolt:
Points: 101
Keywords: Avengers, Frightful Four, Outlaws, Sinister Syndicate, Wild Pack
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst5918279173791737101636101736917358182KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Sand Smother: Sandman can use Stealth and Plasticity. Whenever an adjacent opposing character fails to break away, deal that character 1 unavoidable damage after the action resolves.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty - Sandman opens slow, with low damage and speed. He picks up some stones once pushed to Poison, which combined with Stealth and Plasticity should frighten a few adjacent opponents. Tied up figures really have no incentive to try and break away from him, beating the D6 roll is difficult enough much less knowing more damage is in store when they fail.

Sandy hits full stride towards the end of his dial, protected by Invulnerability and using EW to make tougher opponents take a dirt nap. He's got the dual TA thing going on, which is kind of neat, but at 101 points Flint Marko is a hefty investment for a glorified tie-up figure and secondary attacker that starts with 2 damage. You may want to wash your hands of this one.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

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anonym0use
09/06/2010, 11:54
ws056 E Mysterio
Team: Sinister Syndicate
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 75
Keywords: Sinister Syndicate
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst791717917179161681626816268162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Defense) The Grand Reveal: Give Mysterio a power action and choose a friendly character with a single base. Mysterio and the chosen character are plkaced in each other's squares. Niether character can be given another action this turn.

(Special) Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower if they begin the current turn in that square.

Mysterio is supposed to be one of those Silver Bullet figures - amazing against a few, mediocre when compared to most. Unfortunately his Trait needs some rewording to be effective, because Mysterio can't produce Smoke Cloud before the beginning of his turn, he won't be able to shut off Super Senses for someone else's attack. Even if the Smoke Cloud was worded in a way to deactivate Super Senses after it was placed, you'd be burning actions to use his Smoke Cloud, which means less attacking.

So what is the FX man good for? Probability Control for starters, Perplex on the back end, and a nifty "fooled you" power similar to Harbinger's "You are needed" but without the damage causing or range drawbacks. He's not completely horrible, though he could be priced better - committing 1/4 of your points to a figure that will struggle KO'ng J. Jonah Jameson may not be the best idea.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

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ws057 V Deadpool
Team: Spider-Man
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 158
Keywords: Agency X, Deadpool Corps, Frightful Four, Great Lakes Avengers, Martial Artist, Six Pack, Weapon X, X-Force
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst8121738111731011173101017361016210916269152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Ridiculous Regeneration: Whenever Deadpool would be dealt damage from an attack, roll a d6 instead. On a result of 1, he takes that damage plus 1. On a result of a 2-3 he takes the normal amount of damage. On a result of a 4-5 he takes 1 damage. On a result of a 6, he heals 1 damage instead.

KA-POW! KA-POW! KA-BLUEY! Are you feeling lucky, PUNK? Well, ARE YOU? Deadpool is a solid attacker, who avoids most damage 50% of the time. If you're lucky, you'll tell me I underrated him, if you're unlucky you'll tell me I overrated him.

Let's face it, players who never get Super Senses to work for them, or players who MUST WIN at all costs should avoid this figure. For everyone else he's going to be a fun piece to play with.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws058 Green Goblin
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 122
Keywords: Sinister Syndicate, Thunderbolts
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst9101739101739101639916389163891626815268142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Pumpkin Bomb Barrage: Green Goblin can use Energy Explosion. He can use it normally, or he can use it as if he had :bolt::bolt::bolt: and a range of 4.

(Defense) Goblin Glider: Green Goblin can use Combat Reflexes and Toughness.

The Green Goblin wins WoS's most mobile shooter award, with 4 clicks of Running Shot, and Perplex to back it all up. It's a little odd to see Combat Reflexes on such a range focused figure, but it just shows that Norman's not afraid to step in and snap a few necks to win the game.

Strangely enough, Goblin's worst enemy might be Iron Patriot - where GG excels in hand to hand defense, a strong ranged attacker will turn that glider into a sinker. Norman will sink, not swim, on the back half of his dial, and when he gets to those AE clicks, he's almost out of laughing gas. Hang back and blast or laugh in their face, this figure has a lot of potential, you can easily see why Gwen was so attracted to him. :cheeky:

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws059 U Iron Man/War Machine
Team: Avengers
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt::bolt:
Points: 300
Keywords: Armor, Avengers, Force Works, West Coast Avengers
m-winga-duod-indomitableg-starburst12121841211184101118410111831010183101018310101839917399173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Adaptive Response Armor: When Iron Man/War Machine uses the Duo Attack ability, they may choose Incapacitate, Penetrating/Psychic Blast, or Ranged Combat Expert and use that instead of one or both ranged combat attacks.

(Special) All-Out Assault: Once per game, give Iron Man/War Machine a power action that places two action tokens on them. Iron Man/War Machine possess [1 range] for this action. They can make up to 4 close and/or ranged combat attacks as free actions. An opposing character may only be targeted once during this action. After resolving this action, Iron Man/War Machine are dealt 1 unavoidable damage.

Full disclosure: I have been staring at this dial in the units section as if I were a kid, peering in the department store window display at an official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200 shot range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time. Everything I said about Rulk being a one man army doubles here for the obligatory summer movie tie-in figure.

With an incredible amount of ranged superiority, the Iron Twins hold their own with Outwit, Indomitable and high combat values. Adaptive Response Armor goes a long way in making the Duo attacks even better. The Trait might never come into play - and lets face it - if you only ever have two targets you may as well duo attack.

One final note: It's been asked if the Trait overlaps with the SP. Judging by the wording of the SP, specifically the part that says "When Iron Man/War Machine uses the Duo Attack ability" and not seeing the words "Duo attack ability" anywhere in the Trait, I'd have to say no. Kind of a bummer too. I'm usually against putting all your eggs in one carton, though this is one extremely armored and weaponized basket that could dominate with strategy and luck - or you could just shoot your eye out.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws060 E Vapor
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 79
Keywords: U-Foes
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst5917169171610171691716816158161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Defense) Gaseous State: Vapor can use Smoke Cloud. If she does, modify her defense value by +2 until the beginning of your next turn. Whenever a hindering terrain marker placed by her is removed from the map, you may place her in that square.

What's that smell? It's probably Vapor - doomed to the the SR Wasp of WoS. Gaseous State presents an interesting way to Poison opponents, since you remove Smoke Cloud tokens at the beginning of your turn, you can drop her adjacent and then apply damage (this might be a good way to force figures to push and move away).

However, consider that with the 'cloud gone, her defense drops leaving her adjacent to the enemy, where she's one failed Shape Change roll away from dissipation. Like Spot and Mysterio, Vapor just can't deal enough damage to justify taking up over a quarter of the team build.

:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

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ws061 U Spider-Hulk
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 141
Keywords: Brute, Monster
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst810173891638916499174991747918410101851010195108152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Spider-Smash: Spider-Hulk can use Leap/Climb. If he ends a move action adjacent to three or more opposing characters, he can use Quake as a free action.

(Attack) Roof Rip: Give Spider-Hulk a power action if he occupies elevated terrain. All elevated terrain within the same continuous border as Spider-Hulk becomes grounded hindering terrain, and deal each other character occupying an affected square 2 damage.

Spider-Hulk has a funky transition dial, starting as Peter but literally Hulking out when injured. Leap/Climb plus free Quake is amazing if you can make it work, and the Roof Rip could be a fun way to catch Nightcrawler off guard.

Lots of damage avoidance and damage reducers will make dealing with this gamma-crawler difficult, but sadly loss of control translates to relatively meek attack values - holding steady at 9, and never topping 10. Without some help Dr. Pete Banner here could be in for some trouble.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal:

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ws062 U Doppelganger
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 93
Keywords: Cosmic, Monster, Mystical
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst9111839101739917381017381017389162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Defense) Twisted Clone: Doppelganger can use Combat Reflexes and Leap/Climb.

(Damage) Minion: Mindless Pawn: Once per turn, if Doppelganger has exactly one action token, you may give a power action to a friendly character with a higher point value within 8 squares. You may now give Doppelganger one action as a free action.

(Special) Replace the Spider: Doppelganger can use Exploit Weakness, but only to target characters named "Spider-Man" or characters possessing the Spider-Man team ability. When he does, the target cannot use team abilitys and the attack cannot be evaded.

On the surface, Doppleganger appears to be a Silver Bullet Spider-killer. With low range and a defense that lends itself to close combat, this figure will want to tie up and engage opponents right away. This isn't a dial for a meek player - and there's very little strategy involved here. Step 1: move adjacent. Step 2: Punch them in the face. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Note the SP that allows him to pass a token to another figure - useful for moving in and attacking on the same turn. Of course this means you'll need a 93+ point figure to sit there and take the token, and the figures that actually qualify to take the token (Victor Mancha, Solo, Iron Man/Patriot, etc) are ones you'll probably want to use outright. :confused:

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

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ws063 U Bombastic Bag-Man
Team: Spider-Man & Fantastic Four
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 90
Keywords: Fantastic Four
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst910172910172991628916289152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Kick Me!: Whenever Bombastic Bag-Man takes damage from an attack, deal the attacker penetrating damage equal to the damage taken by Bombastic Bag-Man. Bombastic Bag-Man can't be healed except by the Fantastic Four team ability.

Bag-Man's name is a lot like his usefulness on the battlefield - like a lunch bag, you'll use him with the intention of eventually throwing him away. Send him directly at the biggest threat, and watch as the opponent either decides to eat 6 damage, or breaks away from the annoyance.

Bag-Man should always pull his own weight, even if he only gets KO'd. Chances are between Super Strength, Perplex, and a modest range he'll give out more damage than he takes. Beware his 3 distinct weaknesses found in this set - Incap, Poison and Force Blast, though a clever opponent could Mind Control an opposing figure to attack Bag-Man as well (a "play of the week," in my opinion).

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable:

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ws064 U Cosmic Spider-Man
Team: Spider-Man and Power Cosmic
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 319
Keywords: Cosmic
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst141219412121841211184101118510101751010174810174810173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Damage) Enigma Force Blast: Cosmic Spider-Man can use Force Blast. If he does so, he can then use Ranged Combat Expert as a free action targeting the same character.

(Attack) Psychic Webbing: Cosmic Spider-Man can use Force Blast. When he uses Force Blast, after the action is resolved he may use Ranged Combat Expert as a free action targeting the same character.

(Special) Uni-Vision: Cosmic Spider-Man's line of fire is never blocked.

Now, in a 400 point game, Cosmic Spider-Man is almost invincible on this map in the hands of a skilled player (reminiscent of the CoG final event featuring: Silver Surfer). Flying, HSS'ing, ignoring all terrain - he'll be sniping through the bridge towers with impunity and 80 points of back up. If ever there was an auto-win figure, this is it.

Ask yourself this - with 14 movement HSS, and the ability to see and shoot through any kind of terrain, why would you ever, ever, ever - and I mean EVER - waste an action to TK someone? If Telekinesis were a FREE action (once at the beginning of your turn if Spider-Man has no action tokens...), I could see it, but honestly, it's wasted on the most expensive single based figure ever. Bah.

Another complaint - no Probability Control? This is the all-knowing, all-seeing arachnid, right? Humbug. One final quibble - his SPs need some tinkering. It appears as though there's an obvious misprint, which could cause some headaches for 400 point venues on game day. Because the powers overlap, and with the way they're worded you could conceivably argue that Spidey gets two free RCE attacks after using Force Blast. Yuck.

Complaints aside this is a fantastic figure, one that certainly pulls his own weight, and I cannot wait to get one. If only he were 300 points, I could rate him for a 300 point sealed event...

:d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: - Unplayable in a 300 point sealed event.

lancelot
09/06/2010, 15:55
Thought today was a "holiday"?! Thanks for putting up the tail end of the reviews!

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 16:03
I thought discussion had determined that Mysterio's ability was requiring the figure have not been MOVED into the smoke, but was instead already in the square the smoke was now in...

Pepsirox08
09/06/2010, 16:04
Deadpool Groot Bagman and CSpidey... all 5 stars... all 3 hulks are 3 stars, the rest is meh... red she hulk will be great in bizarro match!

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 16:05
Love the looks of Dr. Octopus, so I might fight through all your concerns to use him if I pull one. I was totally tricked by Sandman, and thank you for pointing out what will probably be his undoing in sealed!

Thunderclese
09/06/2010, 16:16
Yay for marquee primers!

Mr. Cranberry
09/06/2010, 16:20
Ask yourself this - with 14 movement HSS, and the ability to see and shoot through any kind of terrain, why would you ever, ever, ever - and I mean EVER - waste an action to TK someone? If Telekinesis were a FREE action (once at the beginning of your turn if Spider-Man has no action tokens...), I could see it, but honestly, it's wasted on the most expensive single based figure ever. Bah.

Another complaint - no Probability Control? This is the all-knowing, all-seeing arachnid, right? Humbug. One final quibble - his SPs need some tinkering. It appears as though there's an obvious misprint, which could cause some headaches for 400 point venues on game day. Because the powers overlap, and with the way they're worded you could conceivably argue that Spidey gets two free RCE attacks after using Force Blast. Yuck.


Both things I had mentioned when his dial was released. Normal TK on a fig that expensive is a waste.

EvilTwinSkippy
09/06/2010, 16:24
Great reviews! I enjoyed them all. Thanks!

Thunderclese
09/06/2010, 16:27
Dang, I was planning on playing Sandman, too, if I pulled him. You're right though, and he may do better in constructed on an Avengers team.

I'm half tempted to play Spider-Hulk, but only because of the Rip the Roof power. The bridge map wouldn't really be ideal for that power, though, I suppose.

specialmagic
09/06/2010, 16:32
I would caution people against the Red Hulk, unless they have no better options. I don't think he faired well at GenCon, at least not against me or the other people I talked to.

Shellhead's Pal
09/06/2010, 16:37
I thought discussion had determined that Mysterio's ability was requiring the figure have not been MOVED into the smoke, but was instead already in the square the smoke was now in...Ditto! It says, "if they begin the current turn in that square". It doesn't say "if they begin the current turn in the hindering terrain created by Smoke Cloud".

RavenProject
09/06/2010, 16:42
Both things I had mentioned when his dial was released. Normal TK on a fig that expensive is a waste.
When azs reviewed Firelord he discussed the presence of certain powers which were almost never going to get used, like Barrier and Energy Explosion.

One point that he raised was that while those powers may rarely come up, could you imagine how much cheaper (and therefore more "broken") the piece would be without them?

The notion is that adding powers with limited utility is one way to make the cost of a figure more appropriate while respecting the point formula. In other words, it lets them "charge" for synergies without actually breaking the rules.

(Necessary caveat: This assumes one believes in the point formula, which I know a portion of the audience does not.)

-J

RavenProject
09/06/2010, 16:43
Dang, I was planning on playing Sandman, too, if I pulled him. You're right though, and he may do better in constructed on an Avengers team.

I'm half tempted to play Spider-Hulk, but only because of the Rip the Roof power. The bridge map wouldn't really be ideal for that power, though, I suppose.
There's no rule which says the sealed events must be played on the Bridge map. (Indeed, with the extremely limited number in the Prize Kits you're better off assuming you won't...)

-J

robedestroyer
09/06/2010, 16:47
I honestly believe that Cosmic Spider-Man will de-throne E-2 Superman as the best tentpole in the game. Being Power Cosmic + Wildcard and the ability to shoot through anything with a 14 speed and hypersonic will allow him to bring the pain to any opponent. Your only hope playing against him will to be to win map choice and pick a map like the Great Arena and then hopefully you can just overwhelm him. All that might work if you took your vitamins and said your prayers before the match.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 16:49
I thought discussion had determined that Mysterio's ability was requiring the figure have not been MOVED into the smoke, but was instead already in the square the smoke was now in...

Has it? News to me. All I see is an oddly worded SP. We all know what the intent is, but determining that through the wording is something else. :ermm:

CaptainNifty
09/06/2010, 16:50
I think either you or I are missing something on Morlun. Isn't his Steal Energy part of a trait? If so, won't all of his attacks be using Steal Energy?

rowdyoctopus
09/06/2010, 16:54
Um... Doppelganger's Special Power allows you to give a Power Action to another figure, meaning they get to do an action that requires a power action, not just take a token. This means:

Phasing/Teleport
Charge
Mind Control
Force Blast
HSS
Running Shot
Smoke Cloud
TK
Barrier
Regen
RCE
Support
CCE
And a plethora of specials


Point is, if you were going to be using one of those on a figure already, use Doppelganger's power to give him a free action afterward. If you want to do something else, then don't use his power. I see this having tons of uses.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 16:58
I would caution people against the Red Hulk, unless they have no better options. I don't think he faired well at GenCon, at least not against me or the other people I talked to.

I don't mean for anyone to take this the wrong way, but GenCon was GenCon which is to say it drew some of the biggest and best players from around the nation to the maps - people that know strategy and know how to handle, and dismantle tent poles like Red Hulk.

How many cases of boosters were opened at Gen Con? How many possible pairings were there? How many combinations of figures? I'm guessing lots. I'm guessing so many, that the 5 star figures really shined, and other figures that would normally do well didn't - because of the sheer diversity of teams with skilled players.

Now, you have to ask, will all the nations top players be descending on my venue for the Marquee? Probably not unless you live in Michigan. :laugh: So, given a little meta-game thinking - average players in a venue or tournament scene averaging 6-12 players total and/or pulling from only about 1 brick to 3 bricks may do well with Rulk, simply because there's not enough people pulling the perfect combos to stop him. :classic:

TheMoonMonster
09/06/2010, 16:58
I would caution people against the Red Hulk, unless they have no better options. I don't think he faired well at GenCon, at least not against me or the other people I talked to.

To be fair, one of the undefeated teams at the prerelease was a red hulk team. However, Vector was the support, and the player said without him, red hulk wouldn't have fared well at all.

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 16:58
Each of your listed powers says 'give x a power action'. Doppleganger's ability does the same: 'give x a power action'. So the power action given is Doppleganger's ability. Power action leads to result of Doppleganger going again.

You're reading would be the same as if you thought 'give x a power action' in Phasing let you use Smoke Cloud, which in turn thru saying 'give x a power action' would let you use Regen, which goes on and on in an endless loop...

Um... Doppleganger's Special Power allows you to give a Power Action to another figure, meaning they get to use one of their powers that requires a power action. This means:

Phasing/Teleport
Charge
Mind Control
Force Blast
HSS
Running Shot
Smoke Cloud
TK
Barrier
Regen
RCE
Support
CCE
And a plethora of specials


Point is, if you were going to be using one of those on a figure already, use Doppleganger's power to give him a free action afterward. If you want to do something else, then don't use his power. I see this having tons of uses.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 17:03
I think either you or I are missing something on Morlun. Isn't his Steal Energy part of a trait? If so, won't all of his attacks be using Steal Energy?

I didn't quite understand your question. So this may not answer it, but I'll try anyway.

My point is that (I think) you can't use Steal Energy to heal a click if you're on your top dial. Regardless of what I think, his trait specifies:

Whenever Morlun is healed using Steal Energy

So if you don't heal with Steal Energy, you don't get the tracking token. He's never going to heal on his top click, therefore as long as he's uninjured, he's never going to place tracking tokens.



(Special) Psychic Vampire: Morlun can use Steal Energy. Whenever Morlun is healed using Steal Energy, you may place a tracking token on the targeted character's card.

dringopingo
09/06/2010, 17:04
great review would have rep'd you for the red ryder carbine ref but need to spread the rep about a bit first

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 17:05
Deadpool Groot Bagman and CSpidey... all 5 stars... all 3 hulks are 3 stars, the rest is meh... red she hulk will be great in bizarro match!

Yeah, maybe if you play 400 point games. :cheeky:

CaptainNifty
09/06/2010, 17:12
I didn't quite understand your question. So this may not answer it, but I'll try anyway.

My point is that (I think) you can't use Steal Energy to heal a click if you're on your top dial. Regardless of what I think, his trait specifies:

Whenever Morlun is healed using Steal Energy

So if you don't heal with Steal Energy, you don't get the tracking token. He's never going to heal on his top click, therefore as long as he's uninjured, he's never going to place tracking tokens.

Ok, I get it.

rowdyoctopus
09/06/2010, 17:13
Each of your listed powers says 'give x a power action'. Doppleganger's ability does the same: 'give x a power action'. So the power action given is Doppleganger's ability. Power action leads to result of Doppleganger going again.

You're reading would be the same as if you thought 'give x a power action' in Phasing let you use Smoke Cloud, which in turn thru saying 'give x a power action' would let you use Regen, which goes on and on in an endless loop...

Yeah, I see what you are saying, and you are probably right. Actually I am pretty positive you are now that I think about it. I don't get why it specifies giving a power action though.

Couldn't it just as easily say give that character an action token, or would that wording allow them to do another action themselves that turn (assuming they had no tokens at the start of the turn)?

I think that is what tripped me up, specifying power action.

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 17:15
Giving them a token would mean they could take an action on their own, so good call spotting that. It might also lead to being able to place the token on a guy who's already got 2, to no effect.

jbship628
09/06/2010, 17:19
Why wouldn't you "heal" on the top click of Morlun? You MUST use Steal Energy as it is a non-optional power, so if successful, you would heal. The only thing that happens is the green starting line prevents it. Doesn't the rule only say that figures cannot heal past their starting line? It doesn't mean they don't actually heal. Seems kinda silly that Morlun would have to take a click to be able to track someone.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 17:23
Probably because healing denotes dial turning took place. No dial turned? No healing took place.

healing: Restoring health that has been reduced by damage by clicking the combat dial of a character in a counterclockwise direction.

The Brown Cape
09/06/2010, 17:58
I honestly believe that Cosmic Spider-Man will de-throne E-2 Superman as the best tentpole in the game. Being Power Cosmic + Wildcard and the ability to shoot through anything with a 14 speed and hypersonic will allow him to bring the pain to any opponent. Your only hope playing against him will to be to win map choice and pick a map like the Great Arena and then hopefully you can just overwhelm him. All that might work if you took your vitamins and said your prayers before the match.

i agree. i think cosmic spidey is the best tentpole above 300 without question. i would say period, but there's that 300 pt standard... but then again, i remember when 'savage' hulk being 201 was suppose to mean something ;)

great review. cosmic spider man and deadpool definites for me. I'd love to grab bombastic bag man somewhere down the line, but this set is already going to dig into my pockets. shame, i was actually looking forward to picking up the watchmen set.

groot looks good, but i'd rather go with red she hulk. good bargain for those points, plus i'd like to see her toss the sai for mjöllnir ;)

elfholme
09/06/2010, 18:05
Has it? News to me. All I see is an oddly worded SP. We all know what the intent is, but determining that through the wording is something else. :ermm:

I actually see the wording as pretty straightforward. I'm not sure how it could be otherwise worded that would be as concise and still capture the intent.

If

the enemy is in the square at the start of the current turn

And

Mysterio uses his power to put a Hindering marker on that square (so the character is now occupying the Hindering)

Then

The enemy character can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

So he CAN use the power to cancel Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower on an opposing character and then have his buddies attack to take advantage of that. That seems to be the intent, and that's how it's worded.

Abriss
09/06/2010, 18:10
A Deadpool and Green Goblin, if you manage to pull both in a sealed would make an excellent team with all that good damage, range and perplex. Plus you would have 20 points to use a cannon fodder or minor support piece.

LZorro
09/06/2010, 18:21
Aren't Thor and Loki technically the most expensive single-based figure ever made? Granted, Cosmic Spidey is the most expensive single-based single figure to date...

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 18:40
I actually see the wording as pretty straightforward. I'm not sure how it could be otherwise worded that would be as concise and still capture the intent.

If

the enemy is in the square at the start of the current turn

And

Mysterio uses his power to put a Hindering marker on that square (so the character is now occupying the Hindering)

Then

The enemy character can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

So he CAN use the power to cancel Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower on an opposing character and then have his buddies attack to take advantage of that. That seems to be the intent, and that's how it's worded.

It may be clear to you, but to me it's muddy.

The original power for reference:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower if they begin the current turn in that square.

As written, I see it as this:

Mind-Numbing Gas: If Opposing characters begin the current turn in a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio, Opposing characters that occupy that square can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

As it is written I can see this interpretation too:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower. If they begin the current turn in that square, Opposing characters can't use Indominable or Willpower.

The problem to me stems from the if statement in the power, denoted by the "/" below.

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower / if they begin the current turn in that square.

It seems as though it's a strait forward nerf on Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower, allowing for a figure to take push damage when they normally wouldn't, or otherwise eliminate the chance to evade. Even if they move out of the square, they still can't use Indom, WP (or SS).

However, that darn "IF" clause pops up, implying to us that the power is regulated to work only IF the character begins a turn in that square.

Really, a simple rewording would make intent clear.

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio, or opposing characters who begin the current turn in that square, can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

Or even:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters who begin their turn in a square or occupy a square that contains a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

As written, it feels like the Book of Destiny Flub-Up. :confused:

turdburglar47
09/06/2010, 19:16
See, the figure only has to begin the turn in that square. The hindering terrain marker doesn't have to be PLACED in that square at the beginning of the turn - the figure only has to have been IN that square since the beginning of the turn. If so, the smoke cloud can be placed at any time and gain the stated effects.

Or that's how I last saw it being interpreted.

rowdyoctopus
09/06/2010, 19:20
It may be clear to you, but to me it's muddy.

Really, a simple rewording would make intent clear.

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio, or opposing characters who begin the current turn in that square, can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

Or even:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters who begin their turn in a square or occupy a square that contains a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

As written, it feels like the Book of Destiny Flub-Up. :confused:

You are missing the intent of the power. It doesn't affect characters that walk into the hindering terrain, only figures that Mysterio threw the smoke (hindering terrain) at. When applying the effects of the power, you do 2 checks.

1) Is the opposing figure occupying a hindering terrain marker placed by Mysterio?

If yes, then go on to check #2

2) Did the opposing figure start the current turn in that square (not in the terrain marker, just the square)?

If yes, then the effects of the power apply to that figure. This negates Super Sense on your turn, and forces figures to take pushing damage to run away.

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 19:24
I agree on the interpretation stated above, and now humbly submit to the court that the rules debates be kept in another thread and the intent of this article- namely, discussing the value of characters in sealed play- be acknowledged once more.

Sure, Anonym0use has interpretations of rules that may effect ratings. If that's the case, argue the rating, not the rule, and let's get on to all the back and forth about if Doppleganger is a must play if pulled! (I vote yes, a hundred times yes!)

larthosgrr8
09/06/2010, 19:53
i don't understand how bag-man and red-she hulk are the only 5 star sr's to you. morlun, doc oct, red-hulk and groot easily are worthy of 5 stars. i guess to each his own.

UltraDRGN
09/06/2010, 19:55
I'll argue the rating then.

Mysteiro is one of the mere THREE pieces in the set to have probability control. Black Cat is a better fighter and cheaper, but she can't help you reroll your own attacks.

Deadpool is awesome but doesn't' start with the ability and he is very expensive.

Mysterio is fairly cheap, stars with probability control, and can prevent indomitable and super senses in a set FULL of those powers. I'd consider him almost indispensable if pulled.

The only cheap outwitters in this set are Jackal and Normal Osborn, both of which have about the same combat effectiveness as Mysterio and got much higher ratings. If you don't pull those guys, how are you going to deal with the plethora of super senses this set offers? Neither of them have stealth either, and both start with 16 defense. Mastermind is great, but that's even more points your spending on pieces that cost almost as much as Mysterio to begin with. Plus, piece repositioning is a big deal, and so is denying your opponent points for Mysterio.

He can "outwit" super senses and willpower/indomitable on up to FOUR figures, THROUGH STEALTH! That's big.

I think he deserves at LEAST 3 stars.

elfholme
09/06/2010, 19:59
It may be clear to you, but to me it's muddy.

The original power for reference:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower if they begin the current turn in that square.


Yes, that seems pretty clear.


As written, I see it as this:

Mind-Numbing Gas: If Opposing characters begin the current turn in a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio, Opposing characters that occupy that square can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

As it is written I can see this interpretation too:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower. If they begin the current turn in that square, Opposing characters can't use Indominable or Willpower.


But both of those rewritings change the "IF Logic" of the power. You're changing what the power does, because you are rewriting it.



However, that darn "IF" clause pops up, implying to us that the power is regulated to work only IF the character begins a turn in that square.


Yes, IF the character began the turn in that square. Not IF they began the turn in the square AND there was already a Hindering Terrain marker in it. The Hindering Terrain marker didn't have to be in the square when they enterred it, but they have to start the turn in that square.



Really, a simple rewording would make intent clear.

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters that occupy a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio, or opposing characters who begin the current turn in that square, can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

Or even:

Mind-Numbing Gas: Opposing characters who begin their turn in a square or occupy a square that contains a hindering terrian marker placed by Mysterio can't use Indominable, Super Senses, or Willpower.

As written, it feels like the Book of Destiny Flub-Up. :confused:

Except that both of your rewordings actually change how the power works. They're not rewordings to do the same thing, they're rewordings that change the power.

Maybe it's because I'ma computer programmer and deal with MUCH more complicated IF logic every day, but this wording seems very straightforward to me.


I agree on the interpretation stated above, and now humbly submit to the court that the rules debates be kept in another thread and the intent of this article- namely, discussing the value of characters in sealed play- be acknowledged once more.

Sure, Anonym0use has interpretations of rules that may effect ratings. If that's the case, argue the rating, not the rule, and let's get on to all the back and forth about if Doppleganger is a must play if pulled! (I vote yes, a hundred times yes!)

Well, the interpretation does seem to impact the rating. So I guess I disagree on the rating. I just hate to see the rule reworded to be something else (by an author that many of us greatly respect) in a thread that is going to get so much traffic. I'd rather not see lots of people taking 'Mouse's interpretation into their venues when the set hits their stores. That could lead to a lot of confusion.

cattmoe
09/06/2010, 20:15
I don't know why, but I am really pumped to try out that Dr. Octopus. He may go down like a ton of bricks, but he just seems like he's be really fun to play.

On the 1 in a million shot I pulled him and a Deadpool, I'd be sorely tempted to play together just to give the Doc a 15 attack... :laugh:

rollinsolo
09/06/2010, 20:16
Excellent set of reviews. Thanks.

Mr. Cranberry
09/06/2010, 20:18
When azs reviewed Firelord he discussed the presence of certain powers which were almost never going to get used, like Barrier and Energy Explosion.

One point that he raised was that while those powers may rarely come up, could you imagine how much cheaper (and therefore more "broken") the piece would be without them?

The notion is that adding powers with limited utility is one way to make the cost of a figure more appropriate while respecting the point formula. In other words, it lets them "charge" for synergies without actually breaking the rules.

(Necessary caveat: This assumes one believes in the point formula, which I know a portion of the audience does not.)

-J

In the case of Firelord there were instances when Energy Explosion would be a good over RCE. Barrier is very limited for him though, but he's also not topping 300+ points. That right there is a big hole in that side of the discussion since a fige that big should be able to stand alone.

Though they could just leave those spots empty and have his point cost lower. Or they could give a power like PW that doesn't work with HSS, or Quake which allow him to target multiple based figures.

My favorite is if it was an SP that was a free action TK or it grants a friendly figure the use of TK. But PB would have been a better option.

WolvieFan9
09/06/2010, 20:28
Overall, yet another great review that's gotten me even more excited about picking up my case! C'mon, Wednesday!

Dragon
09/06/2010, 20:55
I am going to argue that Groot is a 5 star click in limited.
There are only 10 figures that have outwit in this set. Two of them have a limited form of it in Anti-Venom and Lt. Marcus Stone. Of those ten Groot is one of them. As well only four have outwit on their opening click. Those four are Norman Osborn, Jackal, Doctor Octopus, and Iron Man/War Machine. Notice that only one of those figures isn't a rare/super rare there by greatly decreasing the chances of seeing one. Groot has some amazing damage reducers in a set riddled with low damage units. Top that off with his ability to easily heal himself especially on the the bridge map and you have yourself a 5 star figure. Groot can dish out some nasty damage and take a lot of pain in return. He only costs you about 51% of your build total and there by is easy to build with. Not to mention how disgusting he is when paired with rare Nightcrawler when he's in his colossal state.

traitorarmor
09/06/2010, 21:08
Compleatly agree with your rationel for Deadpool.....I though he might even get bumped down to a :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: because of his inconsitant potential game in game out.

I'm sure we're going to hear stories about how he tore through everything that was put on the board against him..........and probably more accounts of him being a non factor in every single game of the event.

He will be tons of fun and if I pull him he will probably make it onto my team but if you're really trying to win.......that means you need a team that can win you 3 games (more often then not). Deadpool can do lots of things but consitancy is not his bag baby. ;)

He will be tuns of fun though.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:33
Compleatly agree with your rationel for Deadpool.....I though he might even get bumped down to a :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: because of his inconsitant potential game in game out.

I'm sure we're going to hear stories about how he tore through everything that was put on the board against him..........and probably more accounts of him being a non factor in every single game of the event.

He will be tons of fun and if I pull him he will probably make it onto my team but if you're really trying to win.......that means you need a team that can win you 3 games (more often then not). Deadpool can do lots of things but consitancy is not his bag baby. ;)

He will be tuns of fun though.

I think Wade is a little better than 3, only because you can guarantee with his Range & AV that he'll do some serious damage before he gets KOd.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:35
I am going to argue that Groot is a 5 star click in limited.
There are only 10 figures that have outwit in this set. Two of them have a limited form of it in Anti-Venom and Lt. Marcus Stone. Of those ten Groot is one of them. As well only four have outwit on their opening click. Those four are Norman Osborn, Jackal, Doctor Octopus, and Iron Man/War Machine. Notice that only one of those figures isn't a rare/super rare there by greatly decreasing the chances of seeing one. Groot has some amazing damage reducers in a set riddled with low damage units. Top that off with his ability to easily heal himself especially on the the bridge map and you have yourself a 5 star figure. Groot can dish out some nasty damage and take a lot of pain in return. He only costs you about 51% of your build total and there by is easy to build with. Not to mention how disgusting he is when paired with rare Nightcrawler when he's in his colossal state.

I love your rationale. Don't forget though, that there are other counters besides Outwit. Psychic Blast, Pulse Wave, EW, and Incap can stymie an Impervious Brick like Groot. I think he'll trump most non-ranged teams, but in turn get hurt by ranged combat heavy forces.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:39
I agree on the interpretation stated above, and now humbly submit to the court that the rules debates be kept in another thread and the intent of this article- namely, discussing the value of characters in sealed play- be acknowledged once more.

Sure, Anonym0use has interpretations of rules that may effect ratings. If that's the case, argue the rating, not the rule, and let's get on to all the back and forth about if Doppleganger is a must play if pulled! (I vote yes, a hundred times yes!)

Thanks. I'm done arguing rules stuff here - that's not my purpose. I tried researching an answer and to my best knowledge even the rules deputies are stymied by this one. If they're stumped, then it's up to an official answer. So really, all of our back and forth is moot. Hence, I'm done.

Moving on:

I'd totally play Doppleganger for the freakiness effect. He's not one I'll go out of my way to get if I don't pull him, but yeah - he looks like lotsa fun. :)

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:41
I don't know why, but I am really pumped to try out that Dr. Octopus. He may go down like a ton of bricks, but he just seems like he's be really fun to play.

On the 1 in a million shot I pulled him and a Deadpool, I'd be sorely tempted to play together just to give the Doc a 15 attack... :laugh:

I feel like DOc will do well, until Nightcrawler zaps him away from the MM fodder and he gets clobbered. :laugh:

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:43
i don't understand how bag-man and red-she hulk are the only 5 star sr's to you. morlun, doc oct, red-hulk and groot easily are worthy of 5 stars. i guess to each his own.

Morlun, Red Hulk, Groot: No range, high costs.
Doc Ock: Fragile, Shallow dial (see my last post)

Any well rounded team will beat these guys senseless.

trackerjay
09/06/2010, 21:47
Just a note, you can't have someone mind controlled to attack the Bombastic Bag man unless both figures belonged to your opponent. The mind controlled figure becomes friendly to your team.

Great job and I really do agree with all that you have said otherwise about these figures.

Going to be fun to play all around I think.

Petros76
09/06/2010, 21:48
I can't wait to play Bombastic Bagman in a 400pt game against Cosmic Spidey. 4 unavoidable clix to Spidey is going to knock him down to a manageable to deal with position. I'm very excited for this set. Great write up.

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:50
I'll argue the rating then.

Mysteiro is one of the mere THREE pieces in the set to have probability control. Black Cat is a better fighter and cheaper, but she can't help you reroll your own attacks.

Deadpool is awesome but doesn't' start with the ability and he is very expensive.

Mysterio is fairly cheap, stars with probability control, and can prevent indomitable and super senses in a set FULL of those powers. I'd consider him almost indispensable if pulled.

I'll counter argue: a lot of guys in the set have Toughness - Mysterio won't be able to hurt them. At all. Yes, he could do some harm on his back dial, but really, by then he's already lost everything useful that keeps him safe.

Most games he'll burn actions to use his Smoke Cloud, meaning you'll only ever get two attacks. He's 1/4 of a 300 point build. You're devoting 25% of your team to a guy who throws Smoke around.

This is a game about KOs. KO'ng people wins games. For the points I'd rather field Scarlet Spider than Mysterio because Scarlet Spider will be knocking out figures. I look at Mysterio and see a handicap for your team. My opponent gets 300 points of attackers, I get 225 points of attackers and one attack reroll on my turn.

It's not as if there's a huge disparity in combat vs attack values in this set. There's a few 12 AVs, a few natural or modified 19s. If your strategy is so contingent on PC, you've probably already lost.

Can I agree to meet you halfway? If we split his point cost in half, I'll DOUBLE his rating. :grin:

anonym0use
09/06/2010, 21:55
Just a note, you can't have someone mind controlled to attack the Bombastic Bag man unless both figures belonged to your opponent. The mind controlled figure becomes friendly to your team.

Great job and I really do agree with all that you have said otherwise about these figures.

Going to be fun to play all around I think.

Right. I have Will O Wisp. If my opponent has Spider-Man and Bag-Man, and I Mind Control his Spider-Man to clobber Bag-Man, it's a win-win situation for me. Spider-Man takes damage from Clobbering Bag Man, Bag Man takes damage from Spider-Man. It's all good (for me, not them!).

rwint1968
09/06/2010, 22:00
Thanks for all the fig reviews. Why do the SR's in each set seem for the most part to be rather "unplayable"? You'd think that they'd make the SR's a little more playable in general so that players would want to have more of them.

Thanks again, can't wait for Thursday (in my case).

:cool:

saturnflight
09/06/2010, 22:04
Super Rares are all the novelty figs: either they do odd things that don't quite work because they're somewhat experimental, or they fill odd niches. There's always a few that rock, of course, but many are gimmicky and can't pull their weight without the power of constructed teams behind them.

Dragon
09/06/2010, 22:05
I love your rationale. Don't forget though, that there are other counters besides Outwit. Psychic Blast, Pulse Wave, EW, and Incap can stymie an Impervious Brick like Groot. I think he'll trump most non-ranged teams, but in turn get hurt by ranged combat heavy forces.


I only saw 12 with PB/EW and several of them overlapped with the Outwit figures. Of those 12 only three started off with PB and RS (the best Groot counter). Those three were Victor Mancha, Noh-Varr, and Iron Patriot. Victor seems tailor suited for tackling Groot and other bricks like him. I can't say much about that. However, with there being so few true counters for Groot I find his low ranking leaving me wanting more. He still leaves a lot of room on your team to get some other amazing figures in. He easily adds, Spider-Man, Puma, Wolfsbane, Nightcrawler, Mysterio, ect... His cost may seem high, but with so many amazing low cost figures in this set he still helps to create an amazing team.


I understand what your saying, but I also think that Groot packing Outwit makes him that much more valuable. If your able to pair him with either Nightcrawler or Mysterio (who I know you hate) he can be just devastating. The fact that he can deal 6 Damage without any assistance is something that shouldn't be overlooked. I wish we could use the ATAs in sealed, because he would instant become one of the greatest clix you could open.

Pepsirox08
09/06/2010, 22:26
I can't wait to play Bombastic Bagman in a 400pt game against Cosmic Spidey. 4 unavoidable clix to Spidey is going to knock him down to a manageable to deal with position. I'm very excited for this set. Great write up.

YES bagman vs cspidey... the both die! unless spidey crits the first hit...

larthosgrr8
09/06/2010, 23:43
Morlun, Red Hulk, Groot: No range, high costs.
Doc Ock: Fragile, Shallow dial (see my last post)

Any well rounded team will beat these guys senseless.

well i understand why you'd say that. one on one morlun would wipe the floor with 95% of this set. doc oct will probably ALWAYS be close to his fodder. in sealed and in constructed.

a well rounded team can take any figure down. in this set i think doc oct and morlun are in the top 5 IMO. i still respect your opinion, even if i totally disagree!

malger
09/07/2010, 00:54
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=11906" style="width:200px;">
Web of Spider-Man

Primer Review
Part 4:Super Rares
Groot (#049) to Cosmic Spider-Man (#048)
Click "full story" below to find out how the Super Rares fare!And here I thought Cosmic Spider-Man was #64. :laugh:

lost clicker
09/07/2010, 00:59
Full disclosure: I have been staring at this dial in the units section as if I were a kid, peering in the department store window display at an [I]official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200 shot range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time.

Love the Christmas Story tie in. Only 3 and a half more months and then 24 hours of it. Yay

mif987
09/07/2010, 01:21
Can someone explain to me the advantages Colossal size gives to Groot?

lost clicker
09/07/2010, 01:24
Being bigger, he can turn more CO2 into Oxygen. LOL. Sorry had to say it.

Not to mention tying a nifty swing to a branch.

mif987
09/07/2010, 01:25
Is it me or it just makes him a bigger target?

rowdyoctopus
09/07/2010, 01:43
COLOSSAL SIZE (NON-OPTIONAL) Only characters with the symbol block lines of fire to or from this character. A character with this ability ignores the effects of hindering, elevated, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. This character can’t be knocked back and can make ranged combat attacks against non-adjacent opposing character when they are adjacent to opposing characters. This character and a character on elevated terrain draw line of fire and make ranged combat attacks against each other as if they were both elevated. This ability can’t be countered.

ws049 V Groot
Team: Defenders
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 152
Keywords: Guardians of the Galaxy, Monster, Ruler
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-giant6101846101836101736101745917459174.13196.131964914249142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Plant Growth: Once during your turn, as a free action you may heal Groot 1 damage if he occupies hindering or water terrain.

(Damage) Floral Colossus Sprout: Non-optional. Groot has the Colossal damage symbol, a range of 4, and can't be moved.

Anyone that is within 4 spaces is pretty much dead. He will either quake everyone adjacent, or pick off figs from range. Yeah, 4 range isn't great, but it will basically give you a chance to deal 6 damage to the biggest threat on the board if you plan it right. Sure, you can outwit his impervious, but have fun trying to hit that 19 defense late in the game.


At the same time, if you are facing Groot you might want to do your best to stay away from him and knock him onto those clicks. If you play it right, you can get his stuck and keep him there while you deal with the rest of the team. A top dial Nightcrawler would be sick with Groot on his colossal clicks.

Ianator
09/07/2010, 02:11
Great Job as usual! Awesome, thank you!

kallisti
09/07/2010, 02:28
Ask yourself this - with 14 movement HSS, and the ability to see and shoot through any kind of terrain, why would you ever, ever, ever - and I mean EVER - waste an action to TK someone? If Telekinesis were a FREE action (once at the beginning of your turn if Spider-Man has no action tokens...), I could see it, but honestly, it's wasted on the most expensive single based figure ever. Bah.

Second most expensive actually.

Prof. Aragorn
09/07/2010, 02:46
Ask yourself this - with 14 movement HSS, and the ability to see and shoot through any kind of terrain, why would you ever, ever, ever - and I mean EVER - waste an action to TK someone? If Telekinesis were a FREE action (once at the beginning of your turn if Spider-Man has no action tokens...), I could see it, but honestly, it's wasted on the most expensive single based figure ever. Bah.

You can TK Thor, Frog of Thunder out of water terrain next to Iron Fist with Exploit Weakness.

Or Nightcrawler hiding behind a wall in hindering terrain, and place him next to Bullseye.

You can even tk your buddies through walls. Cosmic Spidey sits in the middle of the prison map while he throws them around the jail cell to catch Sue Richards.

Granted, it's hard to say no to 4 damage . . . unless you can deal unavoidable or penetrating damage . . . or you just want to be able to tk someone through blocking terrain.

UltraDRGN
09/07/2010, 04:10
If your strategy is so contingent on PC, you've probably already lost.


Strategy has nothing to do with luck, probability control simply makes you more statistically likely to hit and your opponent statistically likely to miss. That is valuable. Lets assume your opponent gets 3 attacks, 2 of which hit, and you get 2 attacks, 1 of which hits. If probability control can turn one of your attacks into a hit and one of your opponents attacks into a miss, then suddenly you have 2 hitting attacks and they have 1 hitting attack. Attacks don't matter if they don't land, and that has nothing to do with strategy, it is simply a fact. Of course I'm not going to rely on it, that's like saying you're relying on 3 figures attacking a turn in order to win because you don't have probability control. I'm simply saying, that 75 points for a probability control piece that also has other utility (smoke cloud with benefits, mind control, perplex, positional advantage) I think he's worth it more times than not. I won't be relying on anything, no more than you're relying on the dice rolls to hit and KO your opponent's pieces. A re-roll though, is simply nice to have when it counts and worth a bit of a combat handicap, which Mysterio definitely is to a force.

VGA d1sc1pL3
09/07/2010, 04:18
Very awesome write-up.

I can't wait to unleash Hell on Earth with Iron Man/War Machine. I'm going to so dominate with that piece.

Smurf's Up
09/07/2010, 06:01
I truly admire your thoughts and views on how you technically break the set down, for sealed events. Keep up the good work please!:classic:

TheVagrantKing
09/07/2010, 09:26
The beauty of Spider-Man's TK is that it's never blocked. Now, why would that be useful? Well, check out the Prison Map. Use up an action to destroy a chunk of blocking -inside- all of the other blocking. There's absolutely nothing stopping him from making that shot. Also, there's absolutely nothing stopping him from TKing an opposing figure in that open space he just cleared out.

So, either A. The opposing figure is incapable of destroying blocking terrain and is stuck there forever while Spider-Man can freely pick away at them, or B. The figure CAN destroy blocking terrain, and is stuck digging themselves out for 3, 4 or even 5 turns whilst Spider-Man picks away at them.

The -only- thing that nerfs this strategy is Phasing, or powers that mimic such. That, or missing your attack.

Quebbster
09/07/2010, 09:33
Also, there's absolutely nothing stopping him from TKing an opposing figure in that open space he just cleared out.
Except the fact that most figures cannot move through blocking terrain - the only exceptions are Nightcrawler, Kid Flash and SR Crisis Flash (who cannot be TKed anyway). And those guys can just walk right out again.
It is a neat trick to pull them out from behind blocking terrain and into the waiting arms of a teammate, but Susan Richards does that way better than Cosmic Spider-man.

TheVagrantKing
09/07/2010, 09:43
nevermind, I missed that part :p

anonym0use
09/07/2010, 09:46
Strategy has nothing to do with luck, probability control simply makes you more statistically likely to hit and your opponent statistically likely to miss. That is valuable. Lets assume your opponent gets 3 attacks, 2 of which hit, and you get 2 attacks, 1 of which hits. If probability control can turn one of your attacks into a hit and one of your opponents attacks into a miss, then suddenly you have 2 hitting attacks and they have 1 hitting attack. Attacks don't matter if they don't land, and that has nothing to do with strategy, it is simply a fact. Of course I'm not going to rely on it, that's like saying you're relying on 3 figures attacking a turn in order to win because you don't have probability control. I'm simply saying, that 75 points for a probability control piece that also has other utility (smoke cloud with benefits, mind control, perplex, positional advantage) I think he's worth it more times than not. I won't be relying on anything, no more than you're relying on the dice rolls to hit and KO your opponent's pieces. A re-roll though, is simply nice to have when it counts and worth a bit of a combat handicap, which Mysterio definitely is to a force.

I agree that attacks don't matter if they don't land. They also hardly matter if they do land, for only 1 damage. Even with the PC-SC package Mysterio cannot pull his weight in a game where KOs win games. Mysterio can mostly be ignored on the battlefield top dial, because he's just not much of a threat to a majority of the figures in this set.

You'd have to have an extremely efficient 225 points to make up for that 75 points that's plinking guys for 1 damage. What good is he against the likes of Groot who doesn't have Super Senses, Indomitable, or Willpower? Molten Man will burn him alive. Vermin will eat him alive. Being the cheapest full PC figure in the set means little, if you're expensive and can't bring more to the table.

I agree that he's not entirely worthless, which is why he has 2 shields - I'm not going to concede and change my rating, though I do respect your opinion. Pull enough Wildcards and support he might do okay, but that's reaching. On his own, against a majority of figures in the set that's in his price range, he's no threat.

Now, let's talk about what kind of dial layout would make him better. His handicap, as I see it, is the 1 damage up front, which honestly, would better overlap the Mind Control clicks (see: Will O Wisp). As it is, he can do 1 damage top dial, and 3 damage rear dial. Something's wrong there. Rear dial he loses all defense measures (Stealth, Senses), but does pick up the neat "switcharoo" move, which would be awesome if the figure that got moved could take an action after the fact. Any action would be nice. As it is, they won't even be able to take a free action, like Outwit, Perplex or PC. :confused: What would really sell this figure to me is an ability tied into Smoke Cloud that deal damage (like Toro or Nightshade) or gives a token (like Icicles Barrier).

Frankly I'm surprised that nobody's questioned me on Vapor's rating. Her Poison is huge! It should insure some damage gets dealt before she gets KO'd, and she may be able to force NCrawler to a push. I don't think she'll be KO'ng her own point value though - and apparently neither do the rest of you. :laugh:

TheVagrantKing
09/07/2010, 10:01
Frankly I'm surprised that nobody's questioned me on Vapor's rating. Her Poison is huge! It should insure some damage gets dealt before she gets KO'd, and she may be able to force NCrawler to a push. I don't think she'll be KO'ng her own point value though - and apparently neither do the rest of you. :laugh:

...really? She has a, at most, 10 move. And that's if she used smoke cloud on the previous turn and is therefore pushing. A -huge- part of poison is actually being able to get adjacent to an opponent. Which she can't. She can't even be taxi-ed. And AS a Taxi, she's moving 3-4 spaces.

When she's on the map, everyone's just going to mistake her for one of Nightcrawler's 'BAMF!' clouds.

luper4
09/07/2010, 10:49
Can someone explain to me the advantages Colossal size gives to Groot?

The advantage is the way it stacks with his newly acquired 4:bolt:. It means that he can attack any figure within 4 squares of him, regardless of whether or not he's based. With an 13:a-fist: and 6:g-colossal:, that's gonna hurt real bad.

Groot is going to be such a monster in constructed, once you can give him the GotG ATA...

theanalogkid
09/07/2010, 11:36
I don't mean for anyone to take this the wrong way, but GenCon was GenCon which is to say it drew some of the biggest and best players from around the nation to the maps - people that know strategy and know how to handle, and dismantle tent poles like Red Hulk.

How many cases of boosters were opened at Gen Con? How many possible pairings were there? How many combinations of figures? I'm guessing lots. I'm guessing so many, that the 5 star figures really shined, and other figures that would normally do well didn't - because of the sheer diversity of teams with skilled players.

Now, you have to ask, will all the nations top players be descending on my venue for the Marquee? Probably not unless you live in Michigan. :laugh: So, given a little meta-game thinking - average players in a venue or tournament scene averaging 6-12 players total and/or pulling from only about 1 brick to 3 bricks may do well with Rulk, simply because there's not enough people pulling the perfect combos to stop him. :classic:



Thanks for the shout-out for Fanfare but you shouldn't have...;)

awf7
09/07/2010, 12:19
Im an idiot.

UltraDRGN
09/07/2010, 16:00
I agree that attacks don't matter if they don't land. They also hardly matter if they do land, for only 1 damage. Even with the PC-SC package Mysterio cannot pull his weight in a game where KOs win games. Mysterio can mostly be ignored on the battlefield top dial, because he's just not much of a threat to a majority of the figures in this set.

Support figures aren't supposed to be threats, they're supposed to make other pieces more threatening. Mysterio does this, although you obviously think he doesn't do it well enough to warrant his 75 point price tag. That's something I simply can't argue, so I'll simply say thank you for responding to my posts and having a great discussion. I always enjoy these articles.

anonym0use
09/07/2010, 16:01
FWIW: In constructed, where Mysterio is guaranteed to use his TA, I think he'll do fine. :)

elfholme
09/07/2010, 17:19
Thanks. I'm done arguing rules stuff here - that's not my purpose. I tried researching an answer and to my best knowledge even the rules deputies are stymied by this one. If they're stumped, then it's up to an official answer. So really, all of our back and forth is moot. Hence, I'm done.


for my part, I'm sorry to harp on about it. If your review had simply said that Mysterio's effectiveness hinges on the local ruling of the SP, or you weren't sure how it was supposed to work, I wouldn't have posted about it. But when you say:

"Mysterio is supposed to be one of those Silver Bullet figures - amazing against a few, mediocre when compared to most. Unfortunately his Trait needs some rewording to be effective, because Mysterio can't produce Smoke Cloud before the beginning of his turn, he won't be able to shut off Super Senses for someone else's attack. Even if the Smoke Cloud was worded in a way to deactivate Super Senses after it was placed, you'd be burning actions to use his Smoke Cloud, which means less attacking."

I really think that's misleading. It seems based on Normalview's posts in this thread here Mysterio SP Thread (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283409&highlight=mysterio&page=3), the rules boys know how it's supposed to work, but they're in discussions about how to word a ruling.

In any case, saying "I don't know how this works", or even "I think it works like this, but I couldn't find a ruling..." something like that would have less potential for causing confusion in venues on release day. And yes, I'd love for word to come from on high as well. I'm confident about how it works, but if there's this much discussion, it needs an FAQ answer.

To be clear, I love the article series, and agree with most of your reviews. That one just concerned me.

rowdyoctopus
09/07/2010, 19:48
...really? She has a, at most, 10 move. And that's if she used smoke cloud on the previous turn and is therefore pushing. A -huge- part of poison is actually being able to get adjacent to an opponent. Which she can't. She can't even be taxi-ed. And AS a Taxi, she's moving 3-4 spaces.

When she's on the map, everyone's just going to mistake her for one of Nightcrawler's 'BAMF!' clouds.

She might be able to catch someone off guard. If she can get within 4, every one then has to decide if they should move or take the poison. If you can bunch your opponent up in a melee brawl it could be effective late game. Having said that, it is a strategy with limited use and isn't likely to be worth the points in a 300 pt game.

It is a cool strategy, but the limited movement and inability to push her gives it limited uses.

The Arachnid
09/07/2010, 20:10
you can easily see why Gwen was so attracted to him. :cheeky:



Oh, you had to go there, didnt you. :mad:

TheVagrantKing
09/07/2010, 23:44
She might be able to catch someone off guard. If she can get within 4, every one then has to decide if they should move or take the poison. If you can bunch your opponent up in a melee brawl it could be effective late game. Having said that, it is a strategy with limited use and isn't likely to be worth the points in a 300 pt game.

It is a cool strategy, but the limited movement and inability to push her gives it limited uses.

Not really. It's all about timing. If she moves within four you can shoot her or ignore her. The next turn, if she smoke clouds, THEN you can decide if you want to avoid her for next turn or not. You'll always have 2 turns to decide if you want to avoid her or not.

UniqueLoginNamor
09/08/2010, 17:33
I agree with this mostly except Sandman and Vapor. Vapor isn't the bomb i'd say 2 or 3.

Sandman is a 4. He is AWESOME!! He is a decent powerful piece in sealed with a nice twist. In Golden Age he's a god.

If Morlun had the Mystics T/a he'd be a 6 or 7. Really.

Lord Logan
09/08/2010, 19:57
WTH!? Why doesn't Deadpool have Sharpshooter?!

soygi
09/08/2010, 21:34
cosmic Spider-man is to strong

Ignatz_Mouse
09/08/2010, 21:51
cosmic Spider-man is to strong

n/a in 300 points, but he was brutal in the right hands in 400 pts sealed last night.

Caff32
09/09/2010, 17:40
I would point out that The Spot actually starts with 2 damage. The units section is wrong. Not that a 9 attack (7 transporter) for 2 damage makes that much of a difference, but it does allow him to flurry and pierce toughness on each attach or deal 4 damage to a fig w/o a power to reduce damage.

So I would at least give him a 2 to 2.5 stars.

crownroyal578
09/09/2010, 19:24
I would point out that The Spot actually starts with 2 damage. The units section is wrong. Not that a 9 attack (7 transporter) for 2 damage makes that much of a difference, but it does allow him to flurry and pierce toughness on each attach or deal 4 damage to a fig w/o a power to reduce damage.

So I would at least give him a 2 to 2.5 stars.


Maybe higher than that if you pull some perplex, and given the layout of the map. He could quickly turn into a scaled-down version of OOTS Batman.

anonym0use
09/09/2010, 21:10
I would point out that The Spot actually starts with 2 damage. The units section is wrong. Not that a 9 attack (7 transporter) for 2 damage makes that much of a difference, but it does allow him to flurry and pierce toughness on each attach or deal 4 damage to a fig w/o a power to reduce damage.

So I would at least give him a 2 to 2.5 stars.

If this is true, then YES! 2 Shields, easy. Huge difference between 1 damage flurry and 2 damage flurry!

crownroyal578
09/09/2010, 22:44
If this is true, then YES! 2 Shields, easy. Huge difference between 1 damage flurry and 2 damage flurry!

It's true - I'm looking at him right now. Trade ya for another SR so you can see for yourself. :)

anonym0use
09/10/2010, 00:10
Is it just the top click?

ctrosejr
09/10/2010, 15:41
ws063 U Bombastic Bag-Man
Team: Spider-Man & Fantastic Four
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 90
Keywords: Fantastic Four
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst910172910172991628916289152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Kick Me!: Whenever Bombastic Bag-Man takes damage from an attack, deal the attacker penetrating damage equal to the damage taken by Bombastic Bag-Man. Bombastic Bag-Man can't be healed except by the Fantastic Four team ability.

Bag-Man's name is a lot like his usefulness on the battlefield - like a lunch bag, you'll use him with the intention of eventually throwing him away. Send him directly at the biggest threat, and watch as the opponent either decides to eat 6 damage, or breaks away from the annoyance.

Bag-Man should always pull his own weight, even if he only gets KO'd. Chances are between Super Strength, Perplex, and a modest range he'll give out more damage than he takes. Beware his 3 distinct weaknesses found in this set - Incap, Poison and Force Blast, though a clever opponent could Mind Control an opposing figure to attack Bag-Man as well (a "play of the week," in my opinion).

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable:


With all due respect, I think Bombastic Bagman is overrated at five. I played against him in a 300pt blind build, and he was not much more than an annoyance. My opponent had Bombastic, Deadpool and Code: Blue on his team, while I had Carnage, Symbiote and Victor Mancha on mine.

Bombastic only deals 2 clicks of damage (3 with Perplex), so my strategy was to roll breakaways and avoid him until I picked off the rest of his team. He really can't do that much damage unless you attack him. So don't (until the end.)

Carnage and the Symbiote were able to take down Deadpool, despite his regeneration SP, using their combined flurries. Code: Blue was not much of an issue, admittedly due to a lucky knockback roll that sent him into the water. Victor took him down easily with his running shot / psychic blast.

Once Bombastic was the only piece left on the board, Symbiote and Carnage had no trouble making fast work of his 5 clicks, which I could split up however I wanted.

I think Bombastic would more appropriately be a four.

Thanks for the review!

TheVagrantKing
09/10/2010, 15:47
With all due respect, I think Bombastic Bagman is overrated at five. I played against him in a 300pt blind build, and he was not much more than an annoyance. My opponent had Bombastic, Deadpool and Code: Blue on his team, while I had Carnage, Symbiote and Victor Mancha on mine.

Bombastic only deals 2 clicks of damage (3 with Perplex), so my strategy was to roll breakaways and avoid him until I picked off the rest of his team. He really can't do that much damage unless you attack him. So don't (until the end.)

Carnage and the Symbiote were able to take down Deadpool, despite his regeneration SP, using their combined flurries. Code: Blue was not much of an issue, admittedly due to a lucky knockback roll that sent him into the water. Victor took him down easily with his running shot / psychic blast.

Once Bombastic was the only piece left on the board, Symbiote and Carnage had no trouble making fast work of his 5 clicks, which I could split up however I wanted.

I think Bombastic would more appropriately be a four.

Thanks for the review!

I think it depends on the team you're facing. War machine and Iron Man are in a lot of trouble with him, as is Cosmic Spidey and the other big hitters. Teams like Carnage and throw away offensive pieces like the Symbiote and Code: Blue are his big problems.

Heck, play 3 Bagmans against a Nightcrawler team. Nightcrawler would be shaking in his boots :laugh:

Ignatz_Mouse
09/10/2010, 15:51
I saw a Cosmic Spidey devour one.

He left him for last, was on his FB clicks, and FBed him to death.

Also, Bagman is Unique.

vamroc
09/11/2010, 00:47
Both things I had mentioned when his dial was released. Normal TK on a fig that expensive is a waste.

Not so being able to create hindering terrain in side of blocking terrain and then TK a foe or friendly into said square makes Cosmic Spidey having TK AWESOME.

Quebbster
09/11/2010, 06:11
Not so being able to create hindering terrain in side of blocking terrain and then TK a foe or friendly into said square makes Cosmic Spidey having TK AWESOME.
That trick only works on Nightcrawler and Kid Flash, and they can just walk right out again.

Magneticlaw
09/11/2010, 13:07
Great reviews overall, fairly objective, well-informed and graded within the context of the sealed format - except that I feel Doppleganger should have 5 stars, not just 4. His trait will be affecting plenty of characters pulled from boosters in this set, from common Spideys to friends and allies with his team ability, ignoring their ability to evade attacks (and whatever meager damage reduction they might have, like Prowler) . His lack of range isn't much of an issue, either, considering this set is close-combat heavy. Even without the circumstantially useful minion power, he would be costed appropriately. Like I said before though, great reviews overall.

anonym0use
09/11/2010, 16:53
Great reviews overall, fairly objective, well-informed and graded within the context of the sealed format - except that I feel Doppleganger should have 5 stars, not just 4. His trait will be affecting plenty of characters pulled from boosters in this set, from common Spideys to friends and allies with his team ability, ignoring their ability to evade attacks (and whatever meager damage reduction they might have, like Prowler) . His lack of range isn't much of an issue, either, considering this set is close-combat heavy. Even without the circumstantially useful minion power, he would be costed appropriately. Like I said before though, great reviews overall.

If Exploit Weakness stacked with Flurry, I might be inclined to agree with you. I think for the most part, he's better served using Flurry first and foremost. Given the choice of Exploiting Prowler for three, or Flurry-ing for 3 (-1) + 3 (-1), I'll go with the Flurry.

Wade Wilson
09/11/2010, 21:38
Question on Ironman/Warmachine...where it says they have 1 range...is that one target or 1 range? :-s

Isran_Imrador
09/12/2010, 06:14
So if Cosmic Spidey has the Whirlwind feat he can attack all of them in turn?

Quebbster
09/12/2010, 07:11
Question on Ironman/Warmachine...where it says they have 1 range...is that one target or 1 range? :-s
One target.
So if Cosmic Spidey has the Whirlwind feat he can attack all of them in turn?
Provided he is able to make a ranged attack after resolving Whirlwind... Absolutely.

Mr. Cranberry
09/12/2010, 13:34
I think it depends on the team you're facing. War machine and Iron Man are in a lot of trouble with him, as is Cosmic Spidey and the other big hitters. Teams like Carnage and throw away offensive pieces like the Symbiote and Code: Blue are his big problems.

Heck, play 3 Bagmans against a Nightcrawler team. Nightcrawler would be shaking in his boots :laugh:

Not really sure if this is meant as a joke or not since Bombastic is a Unique...

larthosgrr8
09/13/2010, 01:21
best way to deal with bagman is MIND CONTROL! make his partner smack him! BAM, JUST AWESOME!!

doctor_x
09/13/2010, 11:39
I pulled Red Hulk-he looks freaking sweet!!

Awesome sculpt and paint job too.
There's some type of clear coat over his paint job to make him look sweaty/shiney.

I played him in a 4 way battle along with Green Scar and fortitude on him.
When I saw Rulk's pt cost-I KNEW Scar was gonna tag team with him asap.

Rulk is a BEAST.
Fast enough to chase down any fig within 20 squares on his own.

Plus since he does not have battle fury-he can be taxied.
I brought along a Nightshade to carry him-AWESOME.

I took him on top of a rooftop and he pwned it.

NOBODY would come up after him since his charge was in play, and an Iron Spider ran like hell asap! lol

He can also hold cardboard objects between his fingers.
Got to use his sp as he did get swarmed.

His poison and perplex kept him around a LONG time after Scar went down.

I wish that Rulk would have gotten a form of Vermin's poison SP though.

Next I'm teaming Rulk up with V Mutant Mayhem Deadpool.

Even though I hated the character in the comics, Rulk is ALOT of fun to play.

:)

Troma99
09/13/2010, 14:13
I pulled Red Hulk-he looks freaking sweet!!

Awesome sculpt and paint job too.
There's some type of clear coat over his paint job to make him look sweaty/shiney.

I played him in a 4 way battle along with Green Scar and fortitude on him.
When I saw Rulk's pt cost-I KNEW Scar was gonna tag team with him asap.

Rulk is a BEAST.
Fast enough to chase down any fig within 20 squares on his own.

Plus since he does not have battle fury-he can be taxied.
I brought along a Nightshade to carry him-AWESOME.

I took him on top of a rooftop and he pwned it.

NOBODY would come up after him since his charge was in play, and an Iron Spider ran like hell asap! lol

He can also hold cardboard objects between his fingers.
Got to use his sp as he did get swarmed.

His poison and perplex kept him around a LONG time after Scar went down.

I wish that Rulk would have gotten a form of Vermin's poison SP though.

Next I'm teaming Rulk up with V Mutant Mayhem Deadpool.

Even though I hated the character in the comics, Rulk is ALOT of fun to play.

:)
WEird I took out RULK Two times in Sealed with a well Placed Noh-Varr.


And Why not the new one? Too many points for 300?

Troma99
09/13/2010, 14:14
best way to deal with bagman is MIND CONTROL! make his partner smack him! BAM, JUST AWESOME!!

.....because there's sooo many mindcontroller's in this set : P. So its very likely you'll pull one during sealed.

Kite-Man
09/14/2010, 13:08
When azs reviewed Firelord he discussed the presence of certain powers which were almost never going to get used, like Barrier and Energy Explosion.

One point that he raised was that while those powers may rarely come up, could you imagine how much cheaper (and therefore more "broken") the piece would be without them?

The notion is that adding powers with limited utility is one way to make the cost of a figure more appropriate while respecting the point formula. In other words, it lets them "charge" for synergies without actually breaking the rules.

(Necessary caveat: This assumes one believes in the point formula, which I know a portion of the audience does not.)

-J


I used to believe in a point formula before starter Thing.