rowdyoctopus
09/09/2010, 01:28
Ok, I was reading in the comments in the units section that in order to TK Groot (or any other figure with the :g-giant: symbol) if he is an opposing figure, you have to counter his :g-giant: symbol. Looking at TK (the bolded part) this doesn't make complete sense.
TELEKINESIS Give this character a power action and choose one of the following options. For all options, this character must have a clear line of fire to the target and the destination square (to which the target does not affect the line of fire). This character, the target and the destination square must each be 8 or fewer squares away from one another. For options 1 and 2, a target character would need to break away and ignores the effects of elevated and hindering terrain on movement (but does not ignore the effects of opposing characters on movement). (1) Move an Opposing Character: This character makes one close combat or ranged combat attack against a single target that deals no damage. If the attack succeeds and the target has or possesses the damage :g-starburst: symbol (but is not a multi-base figure), the target can be moved to the destination square. (2) Move an Object or a Friendly Character: This character targets an object or a friendly character (that is not a multi-base figure) and moves it to the destination square. Characters that have been moved with this power cannot use this power until the beginning of your next turn. (3) Attack with an Object: This character targets an object and must also have a clear line of fire to a single opposing character occupying the destination square as if this character occupied the target square. This character makes an attack roll against the opposing character. The target of a successful attack using a light object is dealt 2 damage; a heavy object, 3 damage.
The power says they must possess :g-starburst: symbol. If the :g-giant: symbol is countered, does that mean they have the :g-starburst: symbol by default? I could find anything saying so, but that makes sense so I will assume that is true.
But my next question has to do with the abilities granted by the :g-giant: symbol and what can or cannot be countered. Here are the rulebook entries about countering combat symbols and abilities:
COMBAT ABILITIES
Combat abilities are abilities a character possesses due to the way they move or fight on the map, indicated by symbols printed on the character’s base next to their stat slot. Non-standard combat symbols on a character’s base indicates that they possess combat abilities. Combat abilities can be countered.
STANDARD COMBAT SYMBOLS AND ABILITIES
The speed symbol, the attack symbol, the defense symbol, and the damage symbol are standard combat symbols and follow all normal rules. Characters can also possess combat symbols through special powers or trait abilities. Unless specified otherwise, these combat symbols replace the symbols currently possessed by the character. Combat abilities can be countered unless they specify otherwise. See the Powers and Abilities Card for full details on the combat abilities a character possesses.
And here are the entries for the :g-giant: symbol and the abilities granted:
:g-giant: A character with the giant damage symbol is a giant character, and has the Giant Size ability and the Giant Stride ability.
GIANT SIZE (NON-OPTIONAL) This character can’t be knocked back, and ignores Plasticity. When this character is given an action that includes a close combat attack, it treats other characters up to two squares away as if they were adjacent unless blocking terrain, elevated terrain or a wall would otherwise block the line of fire. This character can make close combat attacks against elevated characters, even when this character is grounded. Characters with the symbol do not block line of fire to or from this character. This character and a character on elevated terrain draw line of fire and make ranged combat attacks against each other as if they were both elevated, but terrain effects still apply normally. This ability can’t be countered.
GIANT STRIDE This character ignores the effects of hindering, elevated, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement and may move through squares adjacent to or occupied by opposing figures. This character adds 1 to its d6 roll when breaking away. When this character is given a move action, if it has zero action tokens, it can use the Carry ability.
Now Giant Size is non-optional and cannot be countered. But, the symbol can be countered meaning that (while the symbol is countered) the figure would no longer have the Giant Size ability? This would be like special powers that say a character can use a standard power, right? That standard power cannot be countered, but the special power that grants it can. The ability cannot be countered, but the symbol that grants it can?
Now, if that interpretation is wrong, and the figure would still have the Giant Size ability for some reason, despite their :g-giant: symbol being countered, they would still be able to be TK'd because of the symbol and not the abilities, correct?
To summarize:
1) If a special combat symbol is countered, does the figure then have the standard symbol by default?
2) If the :g-giant: symbol is countered, is the non-optional cannot be countered Giant Stride ability lost (like a special power that grants use of a standard power)?
3) If the answer to 2 is that the figure retains the Giant Size ability (for some reason I am unaware of), they are still able to be TK'd because their symbol has changed, correct?
4) How exactly would the Jakal take away the giant-ness of Groot? :p :grin:
TELEKINESIS Give this character a power action and choose one of the following options. For all options, this character must have a clear line of fire to the target and the destination square (to which the target does not affect the line of fire). This character, the target and the destination square must each be 8 or fewer squares away from one another. For options 1 and 2, a target character would need to break away and ignores the effects of elevated and hindering terrain on movement (but does not ignore the effects of opposing characters on movement). (1) Move an Opposing Character: This character makes one close combat or ranged combat attack against a single target that deals no damage. If the attack succeeds and the target has or possesses the damage :g-starburst: symbol (but is not a multi-base figure), the target can be moved to the destination square. (2) Move an Object or a Friendly Character: This character targets an object or a friendly character (that is not a multi-base figure) and moves it to the destination square. Characters that have been moved with this power cannot use this power until the beginning of your next turn. (3) Attack with an Object: This character targets an object and must also have a clear line of fire to a single opposing character occupying the destination square as if this character occupied the target square. This character makes an attack roll against the opposing character. The target of a successful attack using a light object is dealt 2 damage; a heavy object, 3 damage.
The power says they must possess :g-starburst: symbol. If the :g-giant: symbol is countered, does that mean they have the :g-starburst: symbol by default? I could find anything saying so, but that makes sense so I will assume that is true.
But my next question has to do with the abilities granted by the :g-giant: symbol and what can or cannot be countered. Here are the rulebook entries about countering combat symbols and abilities:
COMBAT ABILITIES
Combat abilities are abilities a character possesses due to the way they move or fight on the map, indicated by symbols printed on the character’s base next to their stat slot. Non-standard combat symbols on a character’s base indicates that they possess combat abilities. Combat abilities can be countered.
STANDARD COMBAT SYMBOLS AND ABILITIES
The speed symbol, the attack symbol, the defense symbol, and the damage symbol are standard combat symbols and follow all normal rules. Characters can also possess combat symbols through special powers or trait abilities. Unless specified otherwise, these combat symbols replace the symbols currently possessed by the character. Combat abilities can be countered unless they specify otherwise. See the Powers and Abilities Card for full details on the combat abilities a character possesses.
And here are the entries for the :g-giant: symbol and the abilities granted:
:g-giant: A character with the giant damage symbol is a giant character, and has the Giant Size ability and the Giant Stride ability.
GIANT SIZE (NON-OPTIONAL) This character can’t be knocked back, and ignores Plasticity. When this character is given an action that includes a close combat attack, it treats other characters up to two squares away as if they were adjacent unless blocking terrain, elevated terrain or a wall would otherwise block the line of fire. This character can make close combat attacks against elevated characters, even when this character is grounded. Characters with the symbol do not block line of fire to or from this character. This character and a character on elevated terrain draw line of fire and make ranged combat attacks against each other as if they were both elevated, but terrain effects still apply normally. This ability can’t be countered.
GIANT STRIDE This character ignores the effects of hindering, elevated, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement and may move through squares adjacent to or occupied by opposing figures. This character adds 1 to its d6 roll when breaking away. When this character is given a move action, if it has zero action tokens, it can use the Carry ability.
Now Giant Size is non-optional and cannot be countered. But, the symbol can be countered meaning that (while the symbol is countered) the figure would no longer have the Giant Size ability? This would be like special powers that say a character can use a standard power, right? That standard power cannot be countered, but the special power that grants it can. The ability cannot be countered, but the symbol that grants it can?
Now, if that interpretation is wrong, and the figure would still have the Giant Size ability for some reason, despite their :g-giant: symbol being countered, they would still be able to be TK'd because of the symbol and not the abilities, correct?
To summarize:
1) If a special combat symbol is countered, does the figure then have the standard symbol by default?
2) If the :g-giant: symbol is countered, is the non-optional cannot be countered Giant Stride ability lost (like a special power that grants use of a standard power)?
3) If the answer to 2 is that the figure retains the Giant Size ability (for some reason I am unaware of), they are still able to be TK'd because their symbol has changed, correct?
4) How exactly would the Jakal take away the giant-ness of Groot? :p :grin: