Bullseye's "I never miss" clarification

[Jarosa]

Bullseye has a power called "I Never Miss", it states:
"Characters targeted by Bullseye can't use Shape Change or Super Senses."
My question is this. If the figures has stealth does this trait still apply if Bullseye is adjacent an uses a close combat attack? Actually anytime Bullseye decides to make a close combat attack instead of a ranged combat attack?
It seems like to be comic accurate it would only apply to Ranged attacks.

[wonderboy8917]

Bullseye has a power called "I Never Miss", it states:
"Characters targeted by Bullseye can't use Shape Change or Super Senses."
My question is this. If the figures has stealth does this trait still apply if Bullseye is adjacent an uses a close combat attack? Actually anytime Bullseye decides to make a close combat attack instead of a ranged combat attack?
It seems like to be comic accurate it would only apply to Ranged attacks.

The power doesn't say anything about it having to be ranged combat. Just says characters targeted. So, yes the trait still works with close combat attacks as well as ranged combat attacks.

[nivlac713]

Agree with wonderboy (do you have the power to move people? :>). Bullseye can punch as well as he throws things, he's just usually throwing things so you don't notice. I believe he defeated Electra in a straight up weapons fight back in the day when he first killed her, so there ya do, she could not SS out of the stab to the chest. Comic accurate :>

[chrisghast]

it'd be funny to see her try though

[MegaLotusMan]

Agree with wonderboy (do you have the power to move people? :>). Bullseye can punch as well as he throws things, he's just usually throwing things so you don't notice. I believe he defeated Electra in a straight up weapons fight back in the day when he first killed her, so there ya do, she could not SS out of the stab to the chest. Comic accurate :>

Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power?

[Dremak]

Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky muck... world?

[Terman8er]

Hmmm...according to the rules to be a "target" and thus "targeted" one must have Line of Fire. Stealth blocks Line of Fire, being in hindering terrain of course, so that means....going by the definitions in the rule book...that Bullseye cannot target someone in stealth and thus cannot ignore their shape change/super senses.

Not saying this is the rule just saying...

[y2schwabe]

hm, but you can still target someone in stealth with a close combat attack. Since his special does not require line of sight, I would say you are good to go.

[Terman8er]

hm, but you can still target someone in stealth with a close combat attack. Since his special does not require line of sight, I would say you are good to go.

Agreed.

From the Rule Book:

LINE OF FIRE
Before making a ranged combat attack, you must determine if the attacker can draw a line of fire to the target and if the target is within range.

So in close combat he can ignore a stealthed figure's Shape Change and Super Senses. But, at range...unless he TB's Ultimates...he shouldn't be able to.

[jackstar7]

But, at range...unless he TB's Ultimates...he shouldn't be able to.

You just know this guy is going to be T-bolted all the time though...

[songwriterz]

You just know this guy is going to be T-bolted all the time though...

You should know I'm going to....all...the...TIME!

[Terman8er]

You just know this guy is going to be T-bolted all the time though...

Not in a sealed event he isn't. :)

[jackstar7]

Not in a sealed event he isn't. :)

I'm just sayin' they might as well have printed the ATA on his card. Then it could have been in sealed!

[biz567]

Agreed.

From the Rule Book:



So in close combat he can ignore a stealthed figure's Shape Change and Super Senses. But, at range...unless he TB's Ultimates...he shouldn't be able to.

He couldn't make the attack anyway, so there's no point in ignoring SS/SC anyways.

[Terman8er]

He couldn't make the attack anyway, so there's no point in ignoring SS/SC anyways.

There ya go....stating the obvious, ruining my day. That's it, I don't want to play any more. :(

[Hero_guy]

Agreed.

From the Rule Book:



So in close combat he can ignore a stealthed figure's Shape Change and Super Senses. But, at range...unless he TB's Ultimates...he shouldn't be able to.

That just says that all ranged combat attacks target. Not that all targets result from a ranged combat attack.

All squares are also rectangles. But not all rectangles are squares.

[xer0sum]

All squares are also rectangles. But not all rectangles are squares.

You've obviously never seen them dance at parties.

[biz567]

There ya go....stating the obvious, ruining my day. That's it, I don't want to play any more. :(

How else do you expect me to sleep at night?

[Terman8er]

How else do you expect me to sleep at night?

Horizontally with your eyes closed?

[vamroc]

Just Thunderbolt to Ultimate and shoot the bugger.

[spike1138]

Just Thunderbolt to Ultimate and shoot the bugger.

What do you do when you pull him in a sealed tournament?

(Didn't this come up a few posts earlier? :noid:)

EDIT: Ah yes, it did: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4976759&postcount=12 :laugh:

[bludd72]

Bullseye has a power called "I Never Miss", it states:
"Characters targeted by Bullseye can't use Shape Change or Super Senses."
My question is this. If the figures has stealth does this trait still apply if Bullseye is adjacent an uses a close combat attack? Actually anytime Bullseye decides to make a close combat attack instead of a ranged combat attack?
It seems like to be comic accurate it would only apply to Ranged attacks.


bullseye can in fact smack the supersenses or shape change out of any fig that can use or possess it, regardless of stealth. if he is going to punch you up close, you can't use either. if he is gonna shoot you from afar, you are still SOL. the trait doesn't counter anything, it just says you can't use it, period.
LoF is not even a question in this case simply because:

OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOABOOOOOO
OOOCDOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO

Let's say A wanted to hit/target D with a close combat attack, are you trying to say you need to draw LoF to D? because ya can't. it's blocked by B and C. however, you can still do a close combat attack without needing to 'see' the fig. so yes, if bullseye targets a stealthed fig with either a ranged or close attack, you are SOL in both cases and can't use SS or SC. why? because the trait doesn't cancel/counter a thing. it simply states that when this guy targets you, you can't use those powers. obviously bullseye still needs to see the stealthed fig to range in the first place, but his trait isn't negated by stealth, his ability to draw a LoF is just blocked. as mentioned earlier, if you Tbolt him to Ults then he can shoot you and thus no SS or SC.

[Harpua]

bullseye can in fact smack the supersenses or shape change out of any fig that can use or possess it, regardless of stealth. if he is going to punch you up close, you can't use either. if he is gonna shoot you from afar, you are still SOL. the trait doesn't counter anything, it just says you can't use it, period.
LoF is not even a question in this case simply because:

OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOABOOOOOO
OOOCDOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO

Let's say A wanted to hit/target D with a close combat attack, are you trying to say you need to draw LoF to D? because ya can't. it's blocked by B and C. however, you can still do a close combat attack without needing to 'see' the fig. so yes, if bullseye targets a stealthed fig with either a ranged or close attack, you are SOL in both cases and can't use SS or SC. why? because the trait doesn't cancel/counter a thing. it simply states that when this guy targets you, you can't use those powers. obviously bullseye still needs to see the stealthed fig to range in the first place, but his trait isn't negated by stealth, his ability to draw a LoF is just blocked. as mentioned earlier, if you Tbolt him to Ults then he can shoot you and thus no SS or SC.

To sum up the above...

Targeting and drawing LoF are two different things.

You can target without LoF, as with a close combat attack.

[Pepsirox08]

Bullseye, the king of ignoring EVERYTHING!!

[chrisghast]

Bullseye, the king of ignoring EVERYTHING!!

well yeah pretty much, oh boy he's really overpowered, he's gonna be used with t-bolt ultimates so much, for 125 points this guy is just pure disgutingly, overratedly, stupidly powerful.

[oddfellow]

Does Bullseye's SA also work on traits such as WOS Spider-man's "Spidey sense"?

[Quebbster]

Does Bullseye's SA also work on traits such as WOS Spider-man's "Spidey sense"?
I NEVER MISS: Characters targeted by Bullseye can't use Shape Change or Super Senses.

SPIDEY SENSE: Spider-Man can use Super Senses, but evades the attack on a result of 4-6.
Yes, it works.

[UniqueLoginNamor]

One other question. Seeing it doesn't specify a time limit, the target can't use Shape Change or Super Senses for the duration of the action right?

I give Bullseye the Darkness Within featSo I target Wolfsbane or NC with Bullseye and use Darkness Within feat to deal 1 damage to an adjacent ally ko'ing it. Big Figure immediately gives me a free attack. So Balder attacks the NC or WB, they still can't use there stuff (as they are still being targeted by Bullseye)

Right?

[W.I.T]

One other question. Seeing it doesn't specify a time limit, the target can't use Shape Change or Super Senses for the duration of the action right?

I give Bullseye the Darkness Within featSo I target Wolfsbane or NC with Bullseye and use Darkness Within feat to deal 1 damage to an adjacent ally ko'ing it. Big Figure immediately gives me a free attack. So Balder attacks the NC or WB, they still can't use there stuff (as they are still being targeted by Bullseye)

Right?

If I am reading this right, Balder is attacking? Then no, Bullseyes Trait isn't active. Only if Bullseye is the one making the attack.

If I am not reading it right, could you clarify?

[UniqueLoginNamor]

If I am reading this right, Balder is attacking? Then no, Bullseyes Trait isn't active. Only if Bullseye is the one making the attack.

If I am not reading it right, could you clarify?

Balder is making the attack, HOWEVER Bullseye is still targeting the character. Usually you'd have to resolve one action first but this is a special exception. Bullseye doesn't say he "ignores the effects of Shape Change and Super Senses" it says as long as they are a target of Bulleye, they can't do it

[W.I.T]

Balder is making the attack, HOWEVER Bullseye is still targeting the character. Usually you'd have to resolve one action first but this is a special exception. Bullseye doesn't say he "ignores the effects of Shape Change and Super Senses" it says as long as they are a target of Bulleye, they can't do it

How is Bullseye targeting anyone? If he's not making an attack, he's not doing anything.

[W.I.T]

Balder is making the attack, HOWEVER Bullseye is still targeting the character. Usually you'd have to resolve one action first but this is a special exception. Bullseye doesn't say he "ignores the effects of Shape Change and Super Senses" it says as long as they are a target of Bulleye, they can't do it

You want Bullseyes Trait to work like this:

STRATEGIC DATABASE: Danger can use Probability Control. Her powers can't be countered, and no opposing characters 10 or fewer squares from Danger to which she has a clear line of fire at the beginning of any action can have their combat values modified during that action if the modified value would be higher.

and this:

AGENT OF THE TIME-KEEPERS: Immortus can use Outwit and Probability Control. Probability Control can't be used by opposing characters to which Immortus has a clear line of fire.

But his Trait isn't worded like that. Notice how neither power above specifies a target, while Bullseyes Trait does? He has to be actively targeting someone in order for his Trait to work, his allies don't get the benefit of his Trait. The above powers are passive.

[UniqueLoginNamor]

No, Bullseye IS targeting them. He targets them, prepares for his attack by beating a close friend into the ground but his attack was simply interrupted by an angry midget

[UniqueLoginNamor]

How is Bullseye targeting anyone? If he's not making an attack, he's not doing anything.

Because he declared an attack on them, and it is currently in his attack action that Balder butts in

[W.I.T]

Because he declared an attack on them, and it is currently in his attack action that Balder butts in

Dude, you've completely lost me here :confused: How is Balder doing anything during Bullseyes turn? You must resolve one action before you can start another action. Bullseye using Darkness Within to KO his own adjacent friendly figure, activating Big Figures 'This Place is gonna explode' power, doesn't mean that Balder gets to act in the middle of Bullseyes attack, free action or not. Just like you can't Perplex or Outwit in the middle of another action, even though both Perplex and Outwit are free actions.................

[Harpua]

ULN, rest assured that I follow what you are asking.

I would say that Bullseye is still targeting the target while Balder makes his attack.

That said, I think we're all pretty confident that BF is getting some form of errata. Remember this issue and come back to it if it is still a problem after we learn what (if any) errata he may get.

[UniqueLoginNamor]

ULN, rest assured that I follow what you are asking.

I would say that Bullseye is still targeting the target while Balder makes his attack.

That said, I think we're all pretty confident that BF is getting some form of errata. Remember this issue and come back to it if it is still a problem after we learn what (if any) errata he may get.

And abuse the hell out of it in the meantime! MUwahahaha!