DC Love?

[ChiRocker]

Dear WizKids,

I am a huge DC fan, and though I do like Marvel, I rarely get Marvel HeroClix (though I am getting several from WoS). As big a year this has been for DC HeroClix (BatB, BN, WM, BD, DC75), I can't help but think we kinda got gypped. All the collectors sets have been nice, but why did BatB get 55 figures and WoS get 64? Even if you add the chases, promos, and LE's, BatB had 63 and WoS got 69. This doesn't even include the amount of reused sculpts in BatB compared to those in WoS (you even gave WoS much more sculpt differences on the ones that were reused).

Also, I have a huge feeling that the (4?) chase figures in DC75 will be Lantern related (as that is what makes sense), but if that happens, then 9 out of the last 10 DC chases will have been lantern themed. Why would you get people interested in Lanterns with BN and BD but then not allow most people to collect all of them? That just doesn't make sense.

To be honest, all I read are Teen Titans/Titans related books, and Green Lantern, and the figures I try to collect are mainly Titans and Lanterns, but I do not own any chases (if I am only reading a handful of books and cutting my collection to just 1 universe, do you really expect me to be able to justify spending 3 bricks worth of cash on 4 figures?).

DC75 will be pretty lantern heavy, but it will be mainly White lanterns and leaders from the other corps. Please do not have any Chase figures in this set. Please make any scheduled Chases into SR's. And please release more of the Lanterns from all the colored corps in the following set (or a collectors set(s)).

Thank you.

[sol]

Really? I mean are you really asking why a Marvel set got 64 pieces when a DC set got 55, in a year where there were 5 DC releases to Marvel's 1.5? There are actual answers to this question, but it seems silly to even renumerate them now.

DC needs even more love? LOL. Wow...some people just are never satisfied.:cheeky:

The lantern stuff is what it is.

[anonym0use]

Really? I mean are you really asking why a Marvel set got 64 pieces when a DC set got 55, in a year where there were 5 DC releases to Marvel's 1.5? There are actual answers to this question, but it seems silly to even renumerate them now.

DC needs even more love? LOL. Wow...some people just are never satisfied.:cheeky:

The lantern stuff is what it is.

I appreciate a lot of SOL's posts elsewhere so it's almost painful for me to say this, but I think it's disrespectful to come into somebody's "Dear Wizkids" thread, and take a dump all over it. Aside from that...

I'm going to back Chi-rocker up from the standpoint that I was disappointed by the smaller set size for B&tB. The collector's sets are nice, I'll admit, but I'm more interested in fresh meat: the "never been done in any form" figures. DC seems to have a disproportionate number of repeats and reprints (and I understand to some degree the necessity of this), but it's at the expense of leaving lots of gaps in team line-ups.

It seems like WK tried to address this issue by squeezing figures onto one base. I know that the Metal Men are always fighting together, but two duos seemed a bit much. Likewise the disappointing Royal Flush Gang dials can't even be played at a full 300 points.

By way of comparison, Marvel's gotten some great, useful, well rounded teams. The Runaways, for instance, X-Force, The Ufoes, the Thunderbolts, the Dark Avengers. I think there's be a lot of complaining on the Marvel side if the Warriors Three were all on one peanut base, or half of the Runaways were duos.

As a fan, I like the direction Wizkids is going in. I appreciate neat Duo figs, and the risks they're taking with dial design (Superman/Flash, Shazadam) but there's a part of me that's resentful that I'll need to wait for 3 or 4 full sets before I see my complete list of wants made, not to mention some updated remakes of figures badly needed.

ALso, is it too much to ask for a better name than DC75? Can't we call it DC: Showcase or World's Finest? Please?

[ChiRocker]

I do want to point out that I don't mean to complain. I am not upset with what we have gotten. I got a Watchmen set (though I do not plan to keep all of it), I got a case of BatB, I got a BN Starter and I plan on getting a BD set. But anonym0use nailed my concern on the head. BatB is a great set, but all of the SRs were duos, and only 1 of the members of the pairs was a first in clix (and that is if you don't count the pog). If you compare BatB + BN + BD + DC75 (Watchmen is DC, but it could very much be argued as an Indy-esque set, much like if they did any Vertigo stuff) with HoT + WoS, Marvel got a lot more never been clixed figures (I am going to assume now that DC75 will get 10-15 new figures, since we know that we are getting the white lanterns, which have almost all been clixed already (if we get a Max Lord that is the only one I can think of off the top of my head) and that they will take up 1/6 of the set (if they make 10 all white and the remaining 5 of the 12 BD characters, then is will be 1/4). On top of that we know we are getting Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Sgt. Rock, John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Doomsday, and Bane (which will put around 1/3 of the set as remakes).

In fact, the only figures that we know are in the set that are new are Atrocitus and the Wonder Twins (yay, 3 figures on 1 base). We have a highly rumored Larfleeze which I believe will be in it, but we just haven't seen him yet, and it is most likely safe to assume that Indigo-I and Saint Walker will be in it as well. Maybe a Carrel Ferris, maybe not. Since the set is themed as 75 years of DC and a huge portion are all current, I am seriously going to assume that the rest of the set will be iconic covers which will most likely be all remakes.

I do believe that the set following DC75 will be actually Lantern themed and not just sub themed, and that we will get Salaak, Kilowog, Soranik Natu, Ganthet, Krybb, Fatality, Munk, Warth, Bleeze, Dex-Starr, and many more of the skittles (if this is not true, I will lose a bet and have to watch a Twilight Marathon, so please WizKids, do this =]). There have been so many Lanterns made already, but not the ones that the people actually want, so I think we would be ecstatic if this were to happen (or even a 25 figure collector's set).

Please do not take this as complaining, as I plan on getting at least 1 case of DC 75, but I would feel very disappointed if the chases were Atrocitus, Larfleeze, Saint Walker and Indigo-I. I would honestly be pretty disappointed if any of them were Lanterns. I love the lanterns, but it stinks that I can't get any of the Black ones without sacrificing 3 bricks worth of figures.

[sol]

I appreciate a lot of SOL's posts elsewhere so it's almost painful for me to say this, but I think it's disrespectful to come into somebody's "Dear Wizkids" thread, and take a dump all over it. Aside from that...?

I hadn't had my caffeine, yet. But I don't think I was my thrust was to 'dump all over it'. It just seemed to be sort of a give a mouse some cheese and they're gonna want a glass of milk' kind of thread. Perhaps the feeling of disrespect is similar to the disrespect I felt in that the question was asked? It's only a feeling, either way.

As far as BatB and the 'whys' of it, it was designed at or around the time of oldKids closure, so to compare the number of figures to WoS is kind of apples and oranges. The better question (if there is one) would have been why 55 as opposed to the 60 in HoT?

[exodus147]

The better question (if there is one) would have been why 55 as opposed to the 60 in HoT?


because HOT was basically ready for production and BatB wasn't nearly as far into development when Wizkids went under, when NECA resurrected the company it was a mad dash to put out whatever was laying around ready to go... that would be my guess

[traitorarmor]

Dear WizKids,

.....

And please release more of the Lanterns from all the colored corps in the following set (or a collectors set(s)).

Thank you.

Are you getting worried Chi? Bwhahahahahahha!

I will still weep for your eyes. :cry:

[combatninja]

I'm really hoping for no chases again.

[ChiRocker]

Are you getting worried Chi? Bwhahahahahahha!

I will still weep for your eyes. :cry:

Not worried, but it doesn't hurt to ask =]

[thebigZZZZZ]

because HOT was basically ready for production and BatB wasn't nearly as far into development when Wizkids went under, when NECA resurrected the company it was a mad dash to put out whatever was laying around ready to go... that would be my guess

oh...what about WoS? they got 64! so the real question....will the DC 75th anniversary get 60 back or 55? As I recall, there was an advertisment saying that we would see 55 different sculpt..right?

[thebigZZZZZ]

Really? I mean are you really asking why a Marvel set got 64 pieces when a DC set got 55, in a year where there were 5 DC releases to Marvel's 1.5? There are actual answers to this question, but it seems silly to even renumerate them now.

DC needs even more love? LOL. Wow...some people just are never satisfied.:cheeky:

The lantern stuff is what it is.

1.5??? Hammer of Thor, Web of Spider Man, Iron Man Classic, Fantastic Four Classic, Spider Man Classic...that's more than 1.5...

5?? Brave and Bold....Jonah Hex...Blackest Night (which Marvel already did last year with Fantastic Four starter).....DC 75th Anniversary....hmmmm

Next year will be Marvel's turn, anyway.

[rpweld03]

I play both DC and Marvel, fairly evenly, but I nevertheless agree with the OP. DC is not getting figures as good as Marvel, and it actually hasn't gotten as many in the last year.

NECA sets in the last 12 months:

Hammer of Thor - Awesome! 70 figures, and only 2 chase figures to go after. God packs were a mix, but many liked them. Best BibtB system ever!

Secret Invasion Classics - 12 figures, reprints of really good figures, sold in toy stores to get new players involved.

Brave and the Bold - 63 figures, tons of repaints, many people hate it just because of the duos, AND 4 chases. A set that people either loathe, or defend to the best of their ability.

Armor Wars Classics - 6 figures, reprints of good figures that some folks didn't have. Moved Ult. Nick into Modern Age.

Blackest Night - 7 Figures, some good, some terrible (Lex?). Not playable as a team for no apparent reason.

Jonah Hex - 3 figures. To be generous, they weren't good.

Watchmen - 25 figures, if you could afford them. Oh, and how many arms did your Silk Specter have?

Web of Spider-Man - 70 Figures, no chases, many people think it's the awesome-sauce.

So, in the past year, there have been 158 Marvel figures (only 2 chase figs, but 18 remakes) and 98 DC figures (4 chases and a $100 collector's set, but no remakes... until the Batman and Superman sets come out... if they come out). Assuming we get things as scheduled (ahem), that barely squeeks Brightest Day into a one-year timeframe. Chalk up 7 more figures for DC... mostly remakes, though new to Modern Age (except for Black Lantern Martian Manhunter, who would be nice for people who couldn't get the chase to have).

Please take a minute to look over the sets of the last year, though. How good does DC75 have to be, added to BatB, to balance the two NECA DC sets against HoT and WoS?

I agree with the OP, DC75 could use more NEW characters, zero chases, and fewer repaints. White Lantern variants are nice and all, but so far I've seen another Hal Jordan, Oliver Queen, Superman, Guy Gardner, Wonder Woman, Doomsday, and Sinestro. All were previously available in Modern Age. I'm heartened to see Modern Age remakes of John Stewart, Sgt. Rock, and a non-Batman Alpha Bane. But I'm going to be waiting on previews of figures that are all-NEW to clix. So far that is just GA Crimson Avenger and some of the rainbow Lantern corps members.

DC75 kind of needs to knock it out of the park, NECA. I liked BatB, but to many it is a stain on clix. Those hardcore DC fans could use a set to make up for that.

[sol]

1.5??? Hammer of Thor, Web of Spider Man, Iron Man Classic, Fantastic Four Classic, Spider Man Classic...that's more than 1.5...

5?? Brave and Bold....Jonah Hex...Blackest Night (which Marvel already did last year with Fantastic Four starter).....DC 75th Anniversary....hmmmm

Next year will be Marvel's turn, anyway.

I strike any of those classic packs from the record. They aren't even marketed to core heroclix audience, and they're all reprints. If you noticed (which you clearly did, but wanted to Vince McMahon the situation with extra stipulations to suit your argument) I only discussed it in the frame of all new content.

1.5 is still incorrect, because Hammer of Thor did come out in 2010. So, 2.5 by my reckoning. Hammer of Thor...Web of Spider-Man...reprinted FF Starter (gets the .5 for new PAC and Rulebook for Marvel people who don't want Blackest Night).

6 for DC - Brave and Bold...Blackest Night...Jonah Hex...Watchmen...Brightest Day...DC 75th Anniversary

And I'm not DC bashing. I get everything with equal verve, and of late DC seems to even have the edge with me. But to say 'we need more DC cause Marvel is getting all the love' just seems like something somebody on Bizarro-World would say.

[rpweld03]

I strike any of those classic packs from the record. They aren't even marketed to core heroclix audience, and they're all reprints. If you noticed (which you clearly did, but wanted to Vince McMahon the situation with extra stipulations to suit your argument) I only discussed it in the frame of all new content.

1.5 is still incorrect, because Hammer of Thor did come out in 2010. So, 2.5 by my reckoning. Hammer of Thor...Web of Spider-Man...reprinted FF Starter (gets the .5 for new PAC and Rulebook for Marvel people who don't want Blackest Night).

6 for DC - Brave and Bold...Blackest Night...Jonah Hex...Watchmen...Brightest Day...DC 75th Anniversary

And I'm not DC bashing. I get everything with equal verve, and of late DC seems to even have the edge with me. But to say 'we need more DC cause Marvel is getting all the love' just seems like something somebody on Bizarro-World would say.

I can understand your ruling out the Classic packs as they are reprints, but let's rule out anything that hasn't been released yet, too. After all, DC75 is due in December, but that might well be January 2011 at this point. Then, let's count the figures in the sets.

Marvel - Two full-size sets. 140 figures.

DC - One less-than-full-size-set, one collectors' set, one 3-figure pack, one 7-figure starter. 98 figures.

When Brightest Day comes out, DC will come to 105 figures in 2010. IF DC75 comes out in 2010, and it's as large as HoT or WoS, DC will come to 175.

So, maybe, assuming NECA stays on schedule for the DC75 release, the total will be DC 175 vs. Marvel 140. That's discounting all the classic packs and the planned FF starter re-release.

Then again, who thinks we'll get DC75 or Brightest Day on time?

Also, let's compare the quality of the Marvel offerings versus the DC offerings this year.

- HoT, WoS, BatB... pick the best two... by a wide margin.

- Which universe was made easier to collect? Marvel with two chase figures total in two sets, or DC with four chase figures in one set and a $100 collectors set? There's a reason why the OP wanted there to be no danged chases in DC75.

- For those of us who like keyword teams, which universe's figures actually got them? HoT had 2.8 per figure, WoS has 2.4. BatB had 1.9 keywords per figure, and BN had 1.1. The omissions on DC sets have been so glaring it's a wonder whether they are even bothering. The Spot can be the only figure ever with the Spider-Man Revenge Squad, but Mera can't have Atlantis? BatB Batman isn't a Detective? We still don't have a Martian Manhunter with JLA as a keyword?



There have been more DC "sets" than Marvel released this year, but please count the figures in them. Then please look at the quality and attention to detail put into the sets. Then please think about the cost differential in trying to collect four chases plus Watchmen vs. two chases spread over two Marvel sets.

Then please ask yourself, "If I was a hardcore DC-only fan, would I feel like I was getting fair treatment from NECA?" I like both universes, but it seems to me like they're sure putting more effort into Marvel than DC.

[Overdrive]

I really hope DC75 is a 75 figure set...

I definitely agree that DC seems to get the short end of the "new to Clix" stick, and have long wondered whether that's perhaps an element of the DC/Wizkids licensing agreement. In the comics, DC has often seemed (imo) to place more stock in their headliners than Marvel (although this is a huge and nebulous discussion for another thread and/or day, perhaps), and I always wondered whether maybe the DC folks might be cracking down more on Wizkids to keep a certain core of big-name pieces more prominently placed set-to-set than Marvel. This is pure speculation, of course - just suggesting that maybe it isn't just on Wizkids that DC seems to have the same characters coming up again and again.

I personally feel that, in 2010, Marvel has been given the edge in quality, while DC has been given the edge in quantity (provided DC75 hits this year!). I do think they balance well enough, though - I'm much more a Marvel fan than a DC one, but I've spent just as much money on the figs from the one universe as the other...that indicates to me that Wizkids must be doing something right!

[Adraeko]

I think for me, as a Marvel guy myself, I got worn out by the consecutive saturation of the DC stuff. I felt like there was little to keep the Marvel fans interest. I myself enjoyed the little bit of BatB that I got and I finally got Blackest Night. I can see the argument that the DC stuff was either lackluster or just expensive, but they certainly made an attempt during a transitional phase to show DC love (of course maybe this is just from a Marvel guy's perspective).

[rpweld03]

I think for me, as a Marvel guy myself, I got worn out by the consecutive saturation of the DC stuff. I felt like there was little to keep the Marvel fans interest. I myself enjoyed the little bit of BatB that I got and I finally got Blackest Night. I can see the argument that the DC stuff was either lackluster or just expensive, but they certainly made an attempt during a transitional phase to show DC love (of course maybe this is just from a Marvel guy's perspective).

That's a good point, thanks.

[ChiRocker]

I will say this, I was super psyched at the beginning of this year, but now I am not so much. I like BatB, but my biggest beef with it was the absolute lack of Teen Titans (the main thing I collect). This was the first set with 0 Teen Titans figures. It also had 0 LoSH figures, 0 Great Ten, and 0 Seven Soldiers, all of which have been very prominent in every set since JL if not further back. I was fine with the REV stuff, though it was not my favorite, but did we really need 2 Talias?

Lets look at a breakdown of what we got: Completely New, Golden Age Remake, Modern Age Remake (also including Batman:Alpha Remake if no other Modern Age remake is available)

Marvel

Completely New:
HoT

Bug
Rock Troll
Jimmy Woo
Pip the Troll
Phalanx Soldier
Malekith
M-11
Valkyrie
Bi-Beast
Asgardian Warrior
Fire Demon
Balder
Fandral
Chase Stein
Karnilla
Namora
Star-Lord
Pluto
Rocket Raccoon
Gorilla-Man
Owl
Ronan the Accuser
Sif
Hogun
Lok-she
Heimdall
Songbird
Venom
Destroyer
Molly Hayes
Phyla-Vell
Penance
Air-Walker
Karolina Dean
Fenris Wolf
Nico Minoru
Hela
Odin
Venus
Seth
Surtur
Gertrude Yorkes & Old Lace
Volstagg
Kurse
Samantha Parrington
Skull-Brother
Gharskygt
Son of Surtur
Ragnarok Surtur

WoS

H.A.M.M.E.R. Agent
Researcher
Peter Parker
Eddie Brock
Prowler
Puma
Will-O'-The-Wisp
Molten Man
Ironclad
H.A.M.M.E.R. Elite Operative
Chameleon
Lt. Marcus Stone
Norman Osborn
Ben Reilly
Anti-Venom
Mary Jane Watson
Daken
Vector
Menace
Victor Mancha
J. Jonah Jameson
Vermin
Noh-Varr
Iron Patriot
Cardiac
Rocket Racer
Solo
Jackal
X-Ray
Groot
Red Hulk
The Spot
Morlun
Red She-Hulk
Vapor
Doppelganger
Night Nurse
Toxin
Daken
"The Burglar" (though not too different from Henchmen)


Remake of Golden Age figure
HoT

Kingpin
Hand Ninja
Marvel Boy (not sure if it is the same character)
Enchantress
Thor
Ulik
Moonstone
Beta Ray Bill
Moondragon
Daredevil
Ultron
Loki
Valkyrie
Thor's Mighty Chariot (Thor... the goats are new)
Thor and Loki
Thor, Frog of Thunder (Thor, but this is pushing it)
Thor, the Reigning
FCBD Warmachine

WoS

Symbiote
Nurse (Paramedic)
Code: Blue Officer (New to Marvel, but really similar to GCPD)
Venom
Carnage
Firestar
Black Cat
Warpath
Wolfsbane
Scorpion
Scarlet Spider
Bullseye
Nightcrawler
Sandman
Mysterio
Deadpool
Green Goblin


Remake of Modern Age figure
HoT

Captain America
Spider-Man
Thorbuster (Iron Man)

WoS

Mugger (GA Remake for Marvel, but really similar to Street Thug)
Spider-Man
Iron Man
Spider-Man
X-23
Wolverine
Doctor Octopus
Iron Man/War Machine
Spider-Hulk
Bombastic Bag-Man
Cosmic Spider-Man
Venom


DC

Completely New
BatB

Bruce Wayne
Clark Kent
Diana Prince
League Assassin
Amazon
Jason Blood
League Elite
Amazon of Bana-Mighdall
Damian Wayne
The Holiday Killer
Cave Carson
Max Mercury
Mikron O'Jeneus
The Sensei
Phillipus
Pawn 502
Mademoiselle Marie
The Parademon
Kryptonite Man
Extant
Inertia
Robin
Kid Zoom
Black Flash
Nekron

BN

Mera

24 figures in the Watchmen set, not counting Experiment or Colossal.
JH

Quentin Turnbull
Lilah


Golden Age Remake
BatB

Checkmate Pawn (White)
Checkmate Knight (White)
Parademon Grunt
The Atom and Hawkman
Checkmate Pawn (Black)
Checkmate Knight (Black)
Parademon Drill Sergeant
Brainiac
Metallo
Power Girl
Martian Manhunter
Etrigan
The Wizard Shazam!
Fire and Ice (Both)
Mister Miracle and Oberon (Oberon is new, but he was a pog)
Martian Manhunter

BN

Scarecrow

JH

Jonah Hex


Batman:Alpha Remake
BatB

Talia
Ra's al Ghul
Talia al Ghul
Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy (Both)
Batman and Catwoman (Batman is MA, but he was in Alpha too...)


Modern Age Remake
BatB

Batman
Superman
Wonder Woman
Goodness and Mercy (Granny Goodness, Mercy is new, but who cares)
Lex Luthor and Brainiac (Lex is MA, Brainiac is GA, but another Brainiac is in this set too)
Batman and Green Arrow (Both)
The Flashes (Both)
The Flash and Green Lantern (Both)
Superman and the Flash (Both)
Green Lantern and Green Arrow (Both)
Blue Beetle and Booster Gold (BB is MA, BG is GA; but I'm putting it here because Origin is the most recently retired set, and Supernova is MA)
Shazam! and Black Adam (BA is MA, but another Shazam! is in this set too)
Black Hand
Kal-L (Both versions are chase =[)
Bruce Wayne (Putting these here because they are just depowered versions)
Clark Kent
Diana Prince

BN

Lex Luthor
Green Lantern
The Flash
The Atom (He was part of a duo)
Wonder Woman


So Concerning completely new figures, Marvel has gotten 89, and DC has gotten 52 (53 if you count Osiris). So unless we get 36 brand new characters in DC75, Marvel has had much more love (and this isn't even looking at Marvel's 15 Modern Age character remakes vs. DC's 22, most of which were Duos having both remade from Modern Age figures AND not counting Alpha as a Modern Age set).