Bullseye again...Golden Age

[sol]

Any Object a Weapon Bullseye can pick up and use light objects as if he had Super Strength. If he hits with an attack using an object, after the attack is resolved; deal 1 penetrating damage to his target.

Bullseye can pick up light objects as if he had Super Strength. As a quibble about the 'as if', would he qualify for the use of Rip it Up as a legal Feat?

[normalview]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288471

[ChiRocker]

I would say yes if I was a judge, but that is a great question.

[Munchoboy]

I would say no.

"As if" does not equate to "can use" or "possesses".

[sol]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288471

Was a definitive answer reached in that thread, cause I don't see one and you seem to say 'yes' to it.

I would say no.

"As if" does not equate to "can use" or "possesses".

Logical, which is why I said it was a 'quibble'. I just want the final absolute word on it.

[Slade Wilson]

if he has super strength and its a light object, why not?

but he doesnt have super strength so the answer is no...

[Munchoboy]

Logical, which is why I said it was a 'quibble'. I just want the final absolute word on it.

Final word is whatever your Judge would say. :p

I can totally see an argument either way, and I know how I would want it to be ruled (Yes).


That said, if I were asked as a Judge for an event, I would err on the side of being conservative.

if he has super strenght and its a light object, why not?

Thing is, Bullseye doesn't have (possess) Super Strength.

[normalview]

Was a definitive answer reached in that thread, cause I don't see one and you seem to say 'yes' to it.

No seeming; I did, in fact, say "yes".


I qualified my answer by saying I wouldn't mind hearing what others would have to say, but I did say "yes".

[normalview]

Thing is, Bullseye doesn't have (possess) Super Strength.

You don't need to possess a power to use it as a prerequisite. Only be able to use a power. From page 19 of the current rules:

In order to be assigned a feat, the character must be able to use the prequisite power or ability. If the character uses the prerequisite power through a power or ability that is not a standard or named power, the prerequisite power must be named by the game effect specifically. A special power that allows a character to use “any standard power” does not satistfy the prerequisites for a feat. The character does not need to possess the prerequisites on the first click of its dial to be assigned the feat, only to use it (see below).

[Munchoboy]

You don't need to possess a power to use it as a prerequisite. Only be able to use a power. From page 19 of the current rules:

In order to be assigned a feat, the character must be able to use the prequisite power or ability. If the character uses the prerequisite power through a power or ability that is not a standard or named power, the prerequisite power must be named by the game effect specifically. A special power that allows a character to use “any standard power” does not satistfy the prerequisites for a feat. The character does not need to possess the prerequisites on the first click of its dial to be assigned the feat, only to use it (see below).

I can totally dig that.

That said, Slade (originally) intimated that Bullseye "has" Super Strength, which Bullseye does not. I responded to that statement specifically.

Context is everything. ;)

Also, since "as if" is not defined or included in the above description, I can see why there is confusion on the issue. After all, "as if" does not necessarily equate to "can use" or "possesses".

[ChiRocker]

"As If" seems as if it will be the new up and coming confusion that needs to be addressed officially pretty soon. As if we needed another phrase to compete with "Can Use" and "Possess".

[normalview]

That said, Slade (originally) intimated that Bullseye "has" Super Strength, which Bullseye does not. I responded to that statement specifically.

Context is everything. ;)

Indeed it is, but the way your answer was phrased made it seem as if possession was the only thing that mattered. Hence my response.

Also, since "as if" is not defined in the above description, I can see why there is confusion on the issue. After all, "as if" does not equate to "can use" or "possesses".

Which is exactly why, in the other thread, I said I wouldn't mind hearing from the other orange guys. It is true that it does not specifically say that he can "use" or "possess" the power, but it would be a pretty big stretch to say he is unequivocally NOT using Super Strength... after all, he is picking up objects. Murky, sure, but definitely more in Bullseye's favor than against.

[red king]

Very cool. Bullseye just became more of an MVP.

[sol]

Final word is whatever your Judge would say. :p

I can totally see an argument either way, and I know how I would want it to be ruled (Yes).


That said, if I were asked as a Judge for an event, I would err on the side of being conservative.



Thing is, Bullseye doesn't have (possess) Super Strength.

Then in that case, more than likely the judge would be me, and I'd say yes.

Truthfully, I'd still probably rather put it on some other schmuck and let Bullseye Running Shot picking up light objects they 'Ripped Up' rather than putting it on the man himself.

[Munchoboy]

Indeed it is, but the way your answer was phrased made it seem as if possession was the only thing that mattered. Hence my response.



Which is exactly why, in the other thread, I said I wouldn't mind hearing from the other orange guys. It is true that it does not specifically say that he can "use" or "possess" the power, but it would be a pretty big stretch to say he is unequivocally NOT using Super Strength... after all, he is picking up objects. Murky, sure, but definitely more in Bullseye's favor than against.

Ok. I can see where this going. :cheeky: :laugh:

[normalview]

Truthfully, I'd still probably rather put it on some other schmuck and let Bullseye Running Shot picking up light objects they 'Ripped Up' rather than putting it on the man himself.

Couple things:

Rip It Up is one of the few feats that isn't assigned to a character. You just pay 20 points, and then everyone on your team that meets the prereqs can start grabbing light objects out of thin air.


How exactly would Bullseye pick up an object somone else Ripped Up? Unless you're making use of the Separation Field special object, or doing a Congo Bill/Congorilla type flip-flop, once the light object has been picked up the character can't drop it.

[normalview]

Ok. I can see where this going. :cheeky: :laugh:

Huh? Where is it going?

[sol]

Couple things:

Rip It Up is one of the few feats that isn't assigned to a character. You just pay 20 points, and then everyone on your team that meets the prereqs can start grabbing light objects out of thin air.


How exactly would Bullseye pick up an object somone else Ripped Up? Unless you're making use of the Separation Field special object, or doing a Congo Bill/Congorilla type flip-flop, once the light object has been picked up the character can't drop it.

Yeah, something like that. lol.

[rowdyoctopus]

I wouldn't think Bullseye qualifies for this feat. His power says he can pick up light objects as if he had super strength. In other words, the way he picks up and can use light objects is the same as an already existing game element (super strength). He isn't actually using super strength to do it.

Here is a related question. Colossal figs can attack opposing figures on elevated terrain as if they were also elevated. Is the colossal fig actually elevated? No, unless he is on elevated terrain.

Giant figures treat opposing figures up to two spaces away as if they were adjacent. Are they actually adjacent? Just ask the player with his close combat brick getting whomped from 2 squares away what he can do about it. (No, they are not actually adjacent).

And there are tons of special powers that grant similar things as if they had something else. They don't actually have those things...

[Questions]

No seeming; I did, in fact, say "yes".


I qualified my answer by saying I wouldn't mind hearing what others would have to say, but I did say "yes".

And confirmed in the new Player's Guide with a change to the wording of Bullseye's special power.

From the Player's Guide:
The first sentence of Any Object A Weapon reads: "Bullseye can use Super Strength, but he cannot pick up or carry heavy objects."

So Rip It Up can be assigned to your force even if Bullseye is the only character on your force that can use Super Strength.