Alpha and Omega, which character should have highest cost?

[brevard321]

In general, the Heroclix game formula says that the game piece with the higher cost, should be stronger/better/more powerful than a game piece with a lower cost.

I know it doesn't always work that way (see Superman 1 Million), but it should, in general.

Okay, we have now seen some 300+ point monsters, many different colossal pieces, and a lot of crazy special powers.

Here's the question:

For a single based or double based Heroclix piece featuring a single character (excluding duos), which character should have the HIGHEST point cost?

We will stay in the comic book realm here, but if there are options outside the comic book realm which fit into Heroclix, we're all ears.

I'm leaning towards one character in general, but let's see what the public says!

[jackstar7]

I just want one clarification, you're basically saying which one character would have the highest points tied to a dial no longer than 11 clicks, right?

[chrisdosmil]

He-Man Master of the Universe!!!!

[nivlac713]

High points. DC is Superman. He just is. Marvel is harder. The Beyonder would be uber powerful, and he could be a single base, so I'd vote him.

Low points is easy too. DC is someone lame like Jimmy Olsen. I"ll get yelled at for this, but eh. He is normal, compleately human, and not all that usfull exept as an erand boy which anyone can do. I would have said Lian Harper, but she has passed away... Marvel, I'd say Beak of the X-Men. Yeah, he's knocked people out with a baseball bat, but from behind! When they weren't looking! And he's a creepy bird guy...

Anyway, thats my 3 cents on the issue, look forward to other responces.

[brevard321]

Yes, highest point character that can fit on a normal single or double base, excluding duo characters.

Also, we can kind of now include a character with 12 clicks of life based on what they did with Shazam!/Black Adam, where they used red lines for the KO clicks.

If they can do it for them, they can do it for the Hulk or Superman! :)

The poll is now up! :)

[Prof. Aragorn]

I voted Beyonder, but Molecule Man, Parallax, and Spectre shouldn't be far behind.

Of course, Superman Prime is up there as is Cosmic Spidey, but those 4 should be highest echelon.

[havok101]

i think Zatanna or any other powerful magic user. they just don't translate how powerful they really are.:classic:

[brevard321]

And I know I probably forgot many characters who should be up on this list, but I had to stop somewhere, so I'm sorry if I left out anyone's favorites such as Black Adam or Martian Manhunter. :)

[brevard321]

i think Zatanna or any other powerful magic user. they just don't translate how powerful they really are.:classic:

I didn't think of Zatanna, for some reason, she has never screamed powerful at me like say Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, or Scarlet Witch. :)

[kaminarukuzu]

I'm pretty sure The Spectre beats Supes, being God's vengeance and judgement and all. Lowest? Probably Jimmy Olson.

[WolvieFan9]

Wolverine, of course.

You must be the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe if you can carry every book in it on your back... :laugh:

[Magnito]

No Mxyzptlk?

[brevard321]

No Mxyzptlk?

Yep, forgot about him too. I guess that's a vote for Other! :)

The Justice League version they made sure doesn't represent the entirety of his powers.

[ricosan95]

Galactus standing on one foot. It would have to be a double base of course :)

[nivlac713]

I didn't think of Zatanna, for some reason, she has never screamed powerful at me like say Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, or Scarlet Witch. :)

I kinda agree with this but reading her new comic, yeah she is uber powerfull. Anything she says backwards happens. Yeah.

Doc Strange "By the Crimson Bonds of Agamondo I shall!...."

Zatanna "Rerecros eb tnelis!"

Zatanna's is shorter, Zatanna wins! Haha its an interesting theory anyway... :>

[brevard321]

My pick:

Scarlet Witch House of M power levels.

She basically recreated the earth and no one noticed (at first). And the fact was, she kind of did it unconsciously. That's scary.

The Beyonder would be my second pick, and probably Parallax third. Hal Jordan Parallax created another Big Bang and redid the universe. That's obviously very powerful.

Come to think of it, maybe it should be Hal Jordan Parallax, then Scarlet Witch, then The Beyonder. I don't know anymore! :)

[Silver Lantern]

No offense but the poll is worded terribly as it appears on the front page. I thought it was asking WHOM is the highest point heroclix fig...

[brevard321]

Yeah, I was trying to keep it short so it would fit, it should say "who should be" the highest point character.

But since The Beyonder and Spawn are choices which have not yet been made in the Heroclix game, hopefully everyone gets it.

If I had made a poll asking who the current highest point character (without consulting the Units section), I would deserve to be banned! :)

[Emtemss]

Let us not forget that Pre-Crisis Supes could blow out a Sun as if it were nothing more than a candle.

[robedestroyer]

I was told Batman.

[Magnito]

My pick:

Scarlet Witch House of M power levels.

She basically recreated the earth and no one noticed (at first). And the fact was, she kind of did it unconsciously. That's scary.

Emperor Joker did that and more. He went beyond the Earth to beings like Darkseid, Highfather, Spectre and more.

And he only had 99% of Mxy's power.

[Vine]

But the Spectre smacked down the Thunderbolt, who is more or less the same as Mxy, during the Day of Vengeance storyline, when he was unfettered and running at his more or less full power.

If we're talking DC, Spectre wins, just because he seems to be empowered by -the- supreme being, Omnipotent and all, and can be as strong as is necessary for a given task. The problem is, he's often not at his full power because the task at hand doesn't demand it. Still, when he's set loose, omnipotence is a heck of a thing. He has the -potential- to be the most powerful single base in DC, even if he doesn't realize it often.

For Marvel? The Beyonder. If we're talking about the Beyonder in his original concept, at least, not the continually downgraded version he became over the years. He eliminated Death from the universe on a whim, kept a fully powered Galactus as part of a game he was playing with earth's supers...I don't know why he'd be a single base figure, but if he was, he has more potential than anyone else I can think of over in Marvel.

[thereddust]

The Phoenix really needs to be mentioned. I don't know that she's on a level with stupid characters like the Spectre or the Beyonder, but it's crazy that she hasn't come up, especially with someone like Zatanna being discussed. :rolleyes:

I really enjoy the Phoenix, as far as vastly powerful characters go, because of the uncontrollable element. It's more compelling, to me, than just having a character who is godlike.

[Clclix]

This one is kinda no contest, the Spectre or Silver Surfer should be really powerful, but the Beyonder IS a full fledged cosmi being.

[HH2011003]

Let us not forget that Pre-Crisis Supes could blow out a Sun as if it were nothing more than a candle.

This was my thinking as well, though I can't quite tell what Crisis we're talking about in this list. I mean... When I think Pre- or Post-Crisis, I immediately think "Crisis on Infinite Earths", but Superboy Prime wasn't anything too terribly special Pre-Crisis, so I wonder if this list is based on "Infinite Crisis" modern-y stuff? I can hardly tell WTF is going on in DC continuity anymore.

Pre-Crisis, Superman could do ANYTHING. If you tried to use Pre-Crisis Superman in a Heroclix game, he'd just turn back time to make it so Heroclix was never invented... then he'd use Super-Hypnosis to make Lois Lane think she was an elf just for laughs, use his Super-Weaving to make blankets for every single Eskimo, fly to the bottom of the ocean and make out with his mermaid girlfriend, then he'd shoot a tiny duplicate of himself out of his hand to go make him a sandwich.

[The7ofDiamonds]

I don't see Thanos on this list.

[HH2011003]

I'm surprised that there are so many votes for The Beyonder and none for Molecule Man, since Owen's supposed to be more powerful than The Beyonder. I guess that "Siege" garbage really hurt the dude's reputation.

[Hellfire117]

I had to go with Scarlet Witch. We've seen everyone reach their max potential, but she was able to eradicate a whole race without breaking a sweat. Who knows what she can be capable of.

[Sparkdemon]

i think it would be close for dormammu for marvel, i havent read or seen much, but if Dr. Strange is on the list, and from what i know he fears dormammu enough to not want to mess with him, he should DEFINATELY be there. but im in accordance with Mr. M, emporer joker. for marvel if not dormammu, i would have to say Dr. strange or doctor voodo, since he IS the new sorcer supreme, AND he waltzed right into dormammus lair, and said "#### yo physcis"

DONT TELL ME WHAT HAPPENS, ONLY ON #2 OF 1-5, COMIC SHOP DOESNT HAVE #3 YET!

[GreenMan]

I voted "other".

Black Bolt. War of Kings version.

Vulcan.

The Doctor from the Authority also seemed to be immensely powerful.

And Hyperion from supreme power.

[brevard321]

Those are all good opinions from everyone. I really didn't think about Emperor Joker, Phoenix, or Thanos. Heck, I didn't even put Darkseid on the list.

But it was just to get the discussion rolling, so I think that's what matters.

Also, how high SHOULD the highest single/double based character be?

400 points, should that be the max?

EDIT: And I was thinking Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths when I said Pre-Crisis. That's when the Supermen were at crazy power levels.

And of course Earth-2 Superman and Superboy-Prime were both at Pre-Crisis levels during Infinite Crisis. :)

[Wade Wilson]

I thought you were talking about this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega_(movie))

[4RAGER]

He-Man Master of the Universe!!!!

Masters of the Universe actually refers to Skeletor and his henchmen.

[brevard321]

For House of M Scarlet Witch, I'm thinking something like these powers:

1. Once per turn, select a character. You may place this character in any unoccupied square(s).

2. Once per turn, Scarlet Witch can use Barrier as a Free Action.

3. At the beginning of the game, characters with the Mutant Keyword lose that Keyword, and may not use that Keyword for any game effect or theme team bonus during the game.

4. When Scarlet Witch uses Probability Control, you may choose to keep the result of one of the d6, and just reroll the other one. (This would be great when your opponent rolls a 6 and a 1, and you can turn into like a 3 and a 1. Kind of a reverse Lucky Break.)

[brevard321]

I thought you were talking about this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega_(movie))

Omigod, no!

That looks as bad as that new owl movie that's coming out.

I was just trying to add some drama to the title, and Alpha/Omega was the best I could come up with! :)

[Wade Wilson]

Hey, I love owls :mad: and Movies :mad: Especially movies about owls! :mad::mad::mad:

[booleyb]

I don't see Franklin Richards on this list. didn't the little fella create a whole new everything once?

[brevard321]

Hey, I love owls :mad: and Movies :mad: Especially movies about owls! :mad::mad::mad:

I don't think I can watch the owl movie, Owl Guardians or something it's called.

Really, in general, I don't like the new animation in cartoon movies like that, that's why I don't even bother with them. Heck, I didn't even see Avatar for much the same reason.

I still like the original Scooby Doo and Super Friends type animation. Much easier on the eyes. :)

[Wade Wilson]

I don't see Franklin Richards on this list. didn't the little fella create a whole new everything once?

His dog Puppy should be on that list as well! Have you seen all the things Lockjaw's Grandpuppy can do?!?! (now I wonder who the mother is...or who Lockjaw mated with at that...)

[anthony_barnstable]

Superman, herald of galactus
The entire fantastic four AND galactus couldn't stop him, I think that earns him the spot of most expensive single base.

[Abraham Cougarblade]

id say Sentry, but the dial would have to include the Void aspect of the character as well. you could make the case for a 400 point figure that could be played as either individual personality at 200, a la Shazam and Black Adam.

[sstralkowski]

Battle Pope

[Previously Banned]

The way that Marvel has recently re-written the Beyonder and Molecule Man's powers, isn't Mr. Manhattan on the same level of power? He can create / dissolve matter in the same manner.

[sliverbelt]

Crap, voted for Silver Surfer before I noticed the Beyonder was on there.

Why post anybody but the Beyonder if you're gonna add him to the list?

[Fredwood]

Beyonder, no Contest.

[thefriendlyfoe]

If we're going by comic accuracy, nothing can stop Dr. Manhattan.

[DarkBlueAnt]

Beyonder.

I would put Dr. Manhattan in second. We never really saw him fight, but he's beyond anything anyone can do to him, and it seems like he's constantly getting stronger as he understands more about manipulating... um... everything...

[W.I.T]

I voted for the Beyonder. I always hoped they'd make him, though he'd probably be better as an event dial, or a colossal figure.

[azbat]

I have lost track of how many that I have read "Given enough time Batman could defeat anyone." so true, so true

Silver age Composite Superman would be the end all for DC. He can use all of the World's Finest and LOSH's powers.

[Scooter]

The Avatar of Death - Thanos

[lost clicker]

I voted Parallax. After all he did, he should be the monster.

[brevard321]

Well after thinking about it, I'd like to see about half of the characters talked about get the 300 point treatment.

Doomsday could be another one who deserves 300 points.

Would The Beyonder work at 400 points on a single base, or would that just be ridiculous?

[Dr. Morbius]

THANOS with the INFINITY GAUNTLET of course!!!!

[konasavage]

The Void for Marvel, probably a Guardian for DC.

[mell]

the anti monitor he destroyed universes after universes and consumed them. in wikipedia it says he is more powerful than Nekron, just search under Nekron.

[hobojoe258]

Thor killed Sentry, so Thor

[candusima]

Pre-Crisis, Superman could do ANYTHING. If you tried to use Pre-Crisis Superman in a Heroclix game, he'd just turn back time to make it so Heroclix was never invented... then he'd use Super-Hypnosis to make Lois Lane think she was an elf just for laughs, use his Super-Weaving to make blankets for every single Eskimo, fly to the bottom of the ocean and make out with his mermaid girlfriend, then he'd shoot a tiny duplicate of himself out of his hand to go make him a sandwich.

QFT. I still say the Beyonder gets the nod, primarily because making Battleworld out of spare bits of the universe on a whim is much like "repairing the Great Wall vision" of pre-ish-Crisis Superman. You know, from that one Richard Pryor movie he had a cameo in.

[maddragon13]

I voted Beyonder because we all know just how powerful he really is. I also agree with everyone that mentioned Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet. And let's not forget that Dark Phoenix would also be a 300pt or more beast.

[crazymike2501]

HULK HATE STUPID POLL... HULK USE STUPID TREE DEE OBJECTS TO STOP STUPID SOOPERMANS...

uhhh... whatr weee talkin aaabout???

[invisibo]

Batman. He has the greatest power of them all.

He's so rich he can do anything.

[AngelofDarkness]

Thanos with the heart of the universe without any doubt :cool:

[cvarosky]

I say Stan Lee . He's so powerful that he can CREATE all-powerful , omnipotent beings ! Can't top that .

[Terman8er]

Spectre, the "Wrath of God" <--- look capital 'G' there folks

Hands down, no contest. Granted this is Spectre empowered by God to do...well, whatever it is God wants him to do. See "Crisis on Infinite Earth"

[neilr1]

DC - Superman
Marvel - Thor or Hulk

[songwriterz]

the Void

You know, just saying "the Void" should've been answer enough. But noooooooo, turns out saying "the Void" isn't enough characters so I have to pad my answer! Whatever.

[elfholme]

According to Marvel, their most powerful character on the list would be Beyonder. I can't really see that many DC characters that would match his stupid power levels. He's way more powerful than Galactus. He would destroy Superman (any version) without thinking too much about it. I can't even see Dr. Manhattan standing up to him, and his whole shtick is that he's got ultimate power.

[theemaxx52ad]

Beyonder's so powerful, he's almost more an event than a character. I don't think you can stat "ultimate power".
Of course, in a Dark Avenger's comic, Molecule Man created the Beyonder from scratch, and was then beat by Sentry, so a Stupid Crazy Sentry figure might be arguable...
I'd still have to say Beyonder, if they could even make him. He'd have to be the most powerful character in the game, and just like Galactus, I'll grumble that somebody technically much less powerful (Dr. Doom/Mr.F) should be able to defeat them.

[Thrumble Funk]

I went with Beyonder.

Also, I hope the people who voted for Batman were joking. :tired:

[IceHot]

The correct answer for Marvel is Molecule Man but the Beyonder should be right near him.

Others on Marvels list would include...

The Living Tribunal
and the Celestials

[kaminarukuzu]

The Spectre without a host is the strongest, because he has no remorse or emotions except vengeance. He can't create worlds, like the Beyonder, but he can smite the Beyonder.

[ShadowHorse34]

NO ODIN!!!!!! I mean he's only a god, nothing special.

[hanzoslash]

Mephisto, single base, 666 points.

[Magnito]

Mephisto, single base, 666 points.
Would be cool, but think about how deadly he would have to be to justify 666 points for 11 clicks of life.