Mysitque and Destiny

[sluggo]

I think they messed up both of these figures.

First Destiny shouldn't have probability control. She can see the future but she can't change it, if someone on her team is going to miss she can't change it. She should have either Outwit, perplex and combination of the two. It would show that she can help her teammates but looking into the future much better then PC. PC is for characters that can change reality and things like that.

Second Mystique should have SHAPE CHANGE, its her power, thats what she does. Its like not giving Wolverine B/C/F or Prof X Mind Control. And WHY does Mystique have perplex? What is that susposed to represent?

And one last thing, shouldn't Sauron be a memebr of the Brotherhood?

[Drashia]

Perplex for Mystique (this is only a guess) because of her shapechanging. Confused, don't worry i'm still trying to convince myself... She is also a tactician... it could represent her smarts in combat situations, or planning etc.. etc..

As for Sauron, yeah he was in the Brotherhood, seeing as he is unique, most of his time was spent in the savage land, as a non brotherhood...

[JonL]

I made Mystique the way she is becuase I didn't think Shape Change was powerful enough for her and because she doesn't use her powers to avoid damage, but rather to sneak up and surprise her opponents, hence Stealth and Perplex. Part of me still thinks it's a little screwy, but the character plays more like the she is in the comics with the combination of powers she has on her dial.

If Destiny isn't the definition of the character that should have Probability Control I don't know who should. She can see the future and tell her teammates what's coming thereby giving them a chance to avoid it or take advantage of it.

Best,

Jon Leitheusser
HeroClix Game Designer
WizKids

[Thunderbolts]

Not that I expect a personal answer Jon, but was there any reason new powers weren't imported from DC again? Shape Change (Mystique) and Smoke Cloud (Storm) seemed like candidates for sure...

[Jay10]

I'm guessing power like Smoke Cloud and Shape Change were not used in X-plosion because they are just stupid powers.

[CyberVenom]

Smoke Cloud and Shape Change are anything but stupid. Just like every other power in the game, it's how you play it. Using Smoke Cloud in a Stealth team doesn't seem stupid at all, does it? And Shape Change is, in essence, just another form of Super Senses. And, using Super Senses in battle myself, know that it's not a "stupid power".

[Mad]

I just think it is amazing that JonL takes his time to explain to us his choices. I don't think we could have asked for anything better than this. Some of us could have made some different choices but his make sense and he is the one whose job is to make them. He did a great job and this expansion looks great (late March can't arrive soon enough). Thank you JL.

[WarHULK]

I am of the belief that Smoke Cloud will be VERY useful in Marvel. In DC it is limited since there is no Stealth but the Batman team. In marvel we have so many stealth figures Smoke Cloud would be a huge deal. What's that? I can make hindering terrain that disappears before my stealth figures move again so they don't have to move at half speed?? Wow. I'd love that. I'm just hoping that we see a Storm Unique in the next set with Smoke Cloud and Force Blast (in the silver suit if at all possible :D )

I'm not a big fan of Shape Change since I feel Super Senses is just that much better. I like being able to take away my oponent's action for trying to hit me, and 1:3 is way better than 1:6...

[ludd_gang]

Those dudes at Wk are cool. Thanks Jon for taking time to gab with the fans. Keep up the great work! I'm so excited about the set I could pee.

And Cyber venom is right. Shape Change is like any power-potentially gamebreaking. Factor a 17% chance of miss into your attack probabilities, and you'll see its pretty good. Smokecloud is great too, and both cost peanuts.

[Gorrack]

Ok, THANK YOU for Giving Mystique Perplex and Stealth!!! I had been saying myself on the boards who that would be a near perfect way to represent the ability to shape shift, as Shape Change is just an OVERLY weak ability that would take away from just how much she could do. She is one of my favorite characters and single handedly makes me feel MUCH better about the screw job given to Apocalypse. Could someone mind explaining that one, yet alone WHY he has Phasing?

[Doctor Strange]

When I first saw the Mystique sculpt, I said: "I hope she doesn't have shapechange, that power just doesn't fit her"

Sometimes a power has a name like "shapechange" for instance, and we assume logically that a character with the actual power to change shape should have it, but the truth is that sometimes the effect of a power in game has to override the name of it.

Case and point being Magneto with telekenesis. Mags does not have the power "telekenesis" but in the game, the only way to truly represent his ability is to give it to him.

I think that Mystique and Destiny are both perfect for how they work in the comics.

Destiny will often warn teamates that "So and So is going to attack from your flank" and then they will be on guard. This effect is best represented by Probability controll, IMHO.

About Apocalypse: I don't know why he has phasing. My guess would be that in the comics, he often seems to come out of nowhere. He's mysterious like that. And about him being short changed, well.. All I have to say is that I think Plasticity is the most underrated power in the game.

After all, how many games have been lost or won on a simple breakaway roll?

[EVIL CAP]

I find so excellent that the people making the game have been exceptionally cool with us.Things like the Spidey Unique the minor figures changes and such have really made the game more enjoyable and have extended its lifespan.I used to think badly of the company just based on things like Imperviousness FL etc but they really have done great with the game and get alot of respect from me

You never seen WotC care much about the players in their quest to churn out drek that draws in mainstearm people for maybe a month ofr two

Also as Doc Strange said you gotta allow for the "Fudge factor" with the hers.Trust me we want a Stealthed Perplexing Mystique more than one with an overpriced 17% chance that you have to aim elsewhere.It might be nice somewhere else down the line but this way makes her much more usable and actually shows her abilities and how she uses them better

[Beastchylde]

I agree with a lot of whats been said. Perplex and Stealth do better represent Mystique's abilities. I still think that she could have Shapechange on her last two clix, but that's just me.
As far as I'm concerned Destiny is perfect, nuff said.
Apocalypse can teleport, hence phasing. I just wonder why he doesn't have a 4 damage and 11 clix of life with some more clix of Invulnerability. He is pretty much immortal and argueably the most powerful mutant. I really like pretty much everything else. Maybe more Super Strength.......
As for Storm, I am totally confused. If anyone ever deserved Smoke Cloud and Force Blast it was her. She's pretty good otherwise, but why not those two powers? They were pretty much made for her. It makes my head hurt.

One other thing that I am really wondering, are you trying to tone down Marvels stats. I don't think you have made a character with an Attack higher than 12 and 9's are alot more common. Also a 17 Defense seems to be really high now. I think it is cool if you are because it evens out Marvel and DC. We still have the first set of Marvel screwing things up though.:D

I would really appreciate you're input on these thoughts Jon. I know you are probably pretty busy and I won't be insulted if you don't answer. If you can shed some light though I would be very grateful.

One thing I just have to say though. I really like Beast. His Attack of 9 is a little low, unless you are doing stats differently of course. His Attack when he gets Support is also a little low but it is still cool that he gets it. I can tell you are definately doing damage differently, which BTW I really like. I really hoped he would have Outwit, but I'm still holding my breath for the LE, hint hint hint. Just kidding.:p Seriously though, as you can tell from my name and signature I really like Beast and I thank you for doing him justice. Keep up the good work. It's great to have a game designer that takes the time to look at our posts and respond.

[capfan]

I'd also like to thank Jon for roaming the threads and responding to our questions. I was actually afraid Mystique would have shapechange, which I think is a weak power. Perplex is a a very potent power and now Mystique will become the Harley Quinn of Marvel and do a better job. I think you're doing great Jon. Now if you'll just fix Captain America and Hawkeye....

[MidnigherApoll]

I never had any problem with Mystique having Stealth and Perplex, and I think she deserves them, but I don't think a click of Shape Change would hurt, maybe at the very end of her dial. She has used her powers to escape from messy situations, and with this power she could run away to a medic or cover and have a better chance at escaping, especially with her special friend Destiny working the Probabilty Control.

[AshenFang]

Originally posted by sluggo
First Destiny shouldn't have probability control. She can see the future but she can't change it, if someone on her team is going to miss she can't change it. She should have either Outwit, perplex and combination of the two. It would show that she can help her teammates but looking into the future much better then PC. PC is for characters that can change reality and things like that.

Second Mystique should have SHAPE CHANGE, its her power, thats what she does. Its like not giving Wolverine B/C/F or Prof X Mind Control. And WHY does Mystique have perplex? What is that susposed to represent?

And one last thing, shouldn't Sauron be a memebr of the Brotherhood?

Let's start with the first paragraph.

Ahem, as nicely as I can, I must say that.. I hope that you are on crack, or are a by-product of it. Destiny's power is to see the different possibilities that the future entails, and gives forth that information, so that her, and her team, can take the best actions. In other words, she has the ability to effect what occurs. There is no one set future. (Never has been, look at Bishop, Cable, the Days of Future Past, AoA.) Destiony was done beautifully.

Then onto Mystique. Perplex? Why? Do you even understand what 'perplex' means? It's simular to 'confuse'. Mysiques power, of shapechange, is used to infiltrate, gather information, and other types of subterfuge. (Many times to cause confusion and angst within one's ranks.) Giving her a generally lame power that only takes effect one in six times, hardly shows how effective she is. Wizkids did the best with what they had to work with in my opinion.. ..I can understand why people ask why not Shape Change.. ..but personally, the power in the game, doesn't really do the true power justice, so I'm not at all put off that she didn't get it.

And finally.. about Sauron.. Eh.. ..he was only in Toad's Brotherhood for a while.. ..he had a large career before, and after.. ..which lasted far longer than his time with the Bro. Hood. I would have liked him to be a member.. but understand that he isn't. It's not going to stop me from fielding him in my Brotherhood though, heh. *shrug* ..I don't know.. it's ok that he's not.. not a great thing, not a terrible thing.. just.. a thing. Heh. I just hope he looks neat, haven't seen a picture of him yet.

[AshenFang]

Originally posted by JonL


If Destiny isn't the definition of the character that should have Probability Control I don't know who should. She can see the future and tell her teammates what's coming thereby giving them a chance to avoid it or take advantage of it.


Didn't see this before I was 'forced' (;) ) to respond to the first post..but.

If you were the one to make Destiny the way she is, I'd just like to thank you. If there's ever been a figure that perfectly fit their comic persona, it would be her.

Once more, thank you.

[sluggo]

"Destiny's power is to see the different possibilities that the future entails, and gives forth that information, so that her, and her team, can take the best actions. In other words, she has the ability to effect what occurs" - I know what Destiny's powers are but in the game PC is a power that allows plays to redo failed roles. I just think Destiny outwiting an enemys power or perplexing her allies to aid them would reflect her helping them better then PC, which I see fitting more with characters like Scarlet Witch who can change relality.

"Then onto Mystique. Perplex? Why? Do you even understand what 'perplex' means? It's simular to 'confuse'." - Just how I look it, I don't think Mystique is the type of character to help Sabretooth hit someone.

"And finally.. about Sauron.. Eh.. ..he was only in Toad's Brotherhood for a while" - Juggs is on the team and hes not excatly a card carrying, life time member.


JonL - Thanks for responding. I still don't really agree with the pwer choices for Destiny (Mystique, I didn't think of it like you did and it does work very well for her character). I was very susprised to see you responding to my post. Its very cool that the guy who designs the game would come online and address qustions that the players have.

[ChromeWeasel]

Mystique should have just been put on the Skrulls team. That frees up anything you want in her damage slot.