View Full Version : Should Super Strength come with automatic Carry ability?
T. Paul Stiles
10/16/2010, 02:18
Inspired by the Fastball Special thread I thought I'd bring up another common sense issue that I've had since day #1.
Should characters with Super Strength automatically have the Carry ability.
To me it makes more sense than flyers, because not all flyers have the physical strength to carry an ally into battle, but someone with Super Strength would.
So what you think?
The BoyBlunder
10/16/2010, 02:20
I don't think so. You don't need super strength to carry someone in real life. And how often do you see someone with super strength carrying someone who is perfectly capable of walking?
Ahh! Why are there so many polls being made with such poor grammar?
I don't mean to offend, but its been hurting my brain trying to read them.
Edit: On topic, Do you think that super strength should come with the carry ability?
Not particularly. Maybe only characters that have both super strength and flying should be able to carry though, unless they have some extra means of carrying someone. Example: Wasp shouldn't really be able to carry someone in my view, but Cave Carson has the Mighty Mole so it makes sense.
Edit2: Just putting this in my original post because I don't want to post more than once and derail the thread, not my intention.
@Blaiser: #1 - This poll isn't affected by bad grammar, it's written more like the headline of a news story.
It actually wasn't the title of the poll that got me, it was the first answer. The answer doesn't make sense with how the question was stated. I've seen a few polls worded in such a way lately and this is the first time I have said something about it.
Yeah yeah, internet rules and don't worry about it and some such.
Have you ever been so far even as decided to use go want to look more like?
T. Paul Stiles
10/16/2010, 02:44
Okay, I come on here with a question and you come at me like this.
Well, if you don't mean to offend maybe you should try not to come off as such a jerk.
But I'd be happy to hear your thoughts ON THE TOPIC.
MistahJustice
10/16/2010, 03:02
I don't believe so. When I think of someone with super strength, I don't normally think of them carrying someone else with them every where they go. I see them carrying an object. As far as others who actually have the ability, it always makes sense, as with those with the ability to fly. I don't see Hulk running around carrying Spider-man like a ragdoll, but I can see Thor dropping either of them into battle as he joins himself. Also, the fastball special is vastly different than someone just carrying another character around the battlefield.
And I totally see your point, it makes sense that they would be able to carry someone else, but I just don't see many characters doing it. I think more of them should have an ability like the fastball special, maybe even a special telekinesis with a very short range. As far as flyers go...it makes a bit more sense than a super strong character lugging his buddy around. Just my opinion.
@Blaiser: #1 - This poll isn't affected by bad grammar, it's written more like the headline of a news story.
#2 - If you're going to post something, at least make part of that post pertain to the OP's topic.
happyoptimistic88
10/16/2010, 03:38
Inspired by the Fastball Special thread I thought I'd bring up another common sense issue that I've had since day #1.
Should characters with Super Strength automatically have the Carry ability.
To me it makes more sense than flyers, because not all flyers have the physical strength to carry an ally into battle, but someone with Super Strength would.
So what you think?
I would say leave it to flyers, transporters, and special abilities that grant the carry ability, but it's a nice idea though. However, there would be too many characters that can carry, as so many have Super Strength. Actually what should change, is flyers with Super Strength should be able to carry a figure that is holding an object. Also they should not have to modify their speed to -2 when carrying another figure. (Other flyers that should not have to modify speed to -2 are ones that have: Phasing and GL TA).
crownroyal578
10/16/2010, 04:12
I have thought this since IC. Seriously, how do people like Wasp and Dove carry guys like Colossus, Wolverine, and the Hulk?
The easy solution is to take Carry away from Flyers and make Super Strength a Trait for those who have both. For Flyers who have an energy, or psionic-based ability to carry (Green Lantern, Magneto, etc.) add Carry as a trait. This may make things a little more complicated, but it does prevent the absurdity of having your opponent taxi in Doomsday with Bouncing Boy....
Inspired by the Fastball Special thread I thought I'd bring up another common sense issue that I've had since day #1.
Should characters with Super Strength automatically have the Carry ability.
To me it makes more sense than flyers, because not all flyers have the physical strength to carry an ally into battle, but someone with Super Strength would.
So what you think?
bluntshark
10/16/2010, 04:33
if you can carry a giant generator (with super strength) why shouldn't you be able to carry a person? that is all.
Kamakura
10/16/2010, 05:02
They really need to just change the rules for Carry back to how they were before that -2 stuff. It makes no sense and really hinders gameplay.
VGA d1sc1pL3
10/16/2010, 05:48
They really need to just change the rules for Carry back to how they were before that -2 stuff. It makes no sense and really hinders gameplay.
I disagree.
I like the -2 to Movement Rate for Carry. I also don't think Super Strength should allow the Carry ability. If it isn't broke... don't fix it.
moonknight2099
10/16/2010, 08:22
What's wrong with Suoer Strength? I don't understand. It's one of the few powers that has always worked fine. We keep having polls wanting to fix it. I say leave it the way it is.
phantalien
10/16/2010, 08:35
No, Super Strength is fine. It is like giving too many options to run away from your opponent.
songwriterz
10/16/2010, 08:51
If we are going to say this, that all characters with Super Strength should be able to carry people, then the necessary corollary is that characters without Super Strength cannot.
Are you ready to give up the ability for all flyers to carry someone unless that flyer also has Super Strength?
Taking the argument on its own merit, I'd say "No" anyway. Carrying someone is a very cooperative, and sometimes character specific, action. Spider-man does it when its a chicka babe he wants to get next to or just to carry someone out of harm's way. The Hulk does it when he wants to carry a specific friendly with him somewhere. So, no, SS alone cannot be a qualifier for the carry ability.
Ignatz_Mouse
10/16/2010, 09:05
No, because the Thing just doesn't carry people around.
No, because just most characters w/ Super Strength don't carry others around. I would, however, support it if it was only allowed to carry characters with 13 or lower defense AWAY from the enemy. It could simulate getting a wounded comrade to safety.
Project: J-ko
10/16/2010, 09:23
No. Heck no, actually.
Flight is basically a method of transportation. Picking up a passenger while flying along the way is like me being in my car and picking up a friend who's on foot. Chances are I can get there faster than they can, so why not help out?
Super Strength is more like a super-powered steroid enhancement. I don't see alot of guys (or gals) with Super Strength saying, "Hey, I can totally help get my other friends over here faster!" Usually it's more like, "I can pick up that 18-wheeler and totally smash that guy over there! OH MY GOD THAT'S A FANTASTIC IDEA WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF IT SOONER?!"
...or something like that.
konasavage
10/16/2010, 09:49
Inspired by the Fastball Special thread I thought I'd bring up another common sense issue that I've had since day #1.
Should characters with Super Strength automatically have the Carry ability.
To me it makes more sense than flyers, because not all flyers have the physical strength to carry an ally into battle, but someone with Super Strength would.
So what you think?
I think that all giants should automatically have super strength.
Follow that up with all people with super strength should be able to carry a teamate OR an object.
Flyers should have the carry ability taken away unless they do have super strength, Wasp I am looking at you.
I understand that this is a "game mechanic" but at some times it doesn't fit the comic accuracy feel.
Thanks.
TheQuestion
10/16/2010, 10:03
True, there are some quirks of the current mechanics that don't make sense. (Like Wasp carrying anyone other than Ant-Man) And there are quirks that aren't allowed within those rules. (Like Hulk carrying Rick Jones)
However, the simplicity of the rules is better than the accuracy in this case. Changing the rules in so many ways will be complex on the younger players, and probably give the older ones fits.
tyroclix
10/16/2010, 10:26
Super-Strength should give you a +2 movement when you carry a person.
Bullseye shouldn't be carrying anyone into battle - ever.
End of line.
songwriterz
10/16/2010, 10:35
I think bad guys should always be able to carry female characters. And all female characters should come with the trait, "Scream".
Just sayin'.
DKowGawd
10/16/2010, 10:48
because it's not practical and would be exploited too much. Just because they could pick someone up, doesn't mean they would. SS should stay the way it is.
Kwagamon
10/16/2010, 11:02
Not a chance. Sure it's less realistic that way, but it's like saying HSS should do knockback automatically because of how much momentum they have behind them.
Gargantua
10/16/2010, 11:30
I don't think so. You don't need super strength to carry someone in real life. And how often do you see someone with super strength carrying someone who is perfectly capable of walking?
There's my reason right there too.
Granite Moose
10/16/2010, 11:30
I voted for the "Nope, and here's why. . ." option. And here's why: along with everybody else, I don't think it really suits Super Strength characters all that much. Also, I'm not a big fan of changing game effects unless there seems to be a real need for it.
Sharkbite
10/16/2010, 11:39
Nope, and here's why...
options. Is it appropriate for some Super Strength characters to carry? Yes. Is it appropriate for them all? No.
Grey Gargoyle, for example, has super strength. But if he carried a teammate, he should have to incapacitate them as well for turning them to stone. He's hazardous to the touch.
Puck has super strength, but is less than 4 feet tall. Dispite the physical strength to lift a person, he lacks the physique nessesary to run around with them riding on him, short of dragging them on the ground.
Rampaging Hulk is specifically declared to be "Rampaging". It seems incredibly inappropriate that his ability to overturn a car or throw a soda machine should also equate to the ability to have a friend ride piggyback. He would hurt friendlies.
And so on. Some characters it seems entirely impractical. Others it makes perfect sense. But that would be why we have :m-boot-trans: Rather than blanket declare all Super Strength to be carriers, let's take advantage of the fact that carry already has it's own independant mechanic and use that to stick it only on the characters who should have it.
Darmonoth
10/16/2010, 11:45
No it shouldn't, brutes don't give piggy backs. you see flyers carrying non flyers, but never the the Thing lugging around Mr. Fantastic
Nickel97
10/16/2010, 12:28
Nope and Here's why: They need to stop changing the rules for the Standard powers. If you want a figure to have Super Strength and the ability to carry, then write it on the card. "This character may use super strength and the carry ability"
turtlesymbiote
10/16/2010, 13:49
other them Betty when was the last time hulk or Colossus or Juggernaut picked some one up and walked over and set them down
No, because the Thing just doesn't carry people around.
Wow, I must have read your mind (or you mine :p) because that is exactly what I was going to say. If I can Rep. you, it will be coming.
Unfortunately:
'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ignatz_Mouse again.' :ermm:
The7ofDiamonds
10/16/2010, 14:10
No, because regardless of how much sense it might make in terms of comic-book accuracy, it would be too drastic of a game change to a power that has been around for so long. So there have been too many characters that haven't paid for the extremely useful carry ability.
Not counting special powers granting it, I searched the units section and there are 404 characters that are not fliers that have super strength. Of those 404, 99 of them are modern age. Of those 99, 42 of them are under 80 points.
Illiniwek
10/16/2010, 15:12
Nope, and here's why....
Unnecessary add to the game mechanics that is already covered by flight and giant-size. And I love the argument, "...it doesn't make sense..." when talking about comic/super hero-based game mechanics. Most debates/discussions over rules/mechanics would end much quicker if these four words are not allowed to be spoken. Just my two cents.
commandercool
10/16/2010, 16:42
No. As with the Fastball Special thread, Super Strength's cost on older figures doesn't take new abilities into account. And as with the other thread, why not make it a special power? What is people's fascination with adding significant new facets to usable core powers when we could just make it a special power or trait?
I said no cus there arnt too many examples where a ground charater w/ super strength would carry a person into battle. but there r plenty of times where a flyer or a teleporter or would carry teamates into battle. Leave Super Strength how it is.
pattheimpaler
10/16/2010, 18:37
No. As with the Fastball Special thread, Super Strength's cost on older figures doesn't take new abilities into account. And as with the other thread, why not make it a special power? What is people's fascination with adding significant new facets to usable core powers when we could just make it a special power or trait?
Exactly.
Should Misty Knight, a 12 point character, be able to carry around Odin (let alone throw him at somebody)? If non-SS fliers could no longer carry, almost all of them would be overpriced because the dial designers accounted for that when calculating point totals.
anonym0use
10/16/2010, 18:44
I think flight offers a more natural carry ability - the passenger is easily dropped off with little impact to the person carrying (stop & drop!). If you're walking and carrying, you've got someone slung over your shoulder or in your arms, making it difficult to put them down immediately, much less charge in and attack.
Super Strength should allow you to ignore hindering terrain (but not water) for movement purposes. Colossus should not be hindered by a mere shrub, and neither should Juggernaut.
ricosan95
10/16/2010, 18:56
Yes because if you can carry a hotdog cart you can carry a person, to some extent.
DaddyDoom
10/16/2010, 19:21
We continue to dumb down the game and make it more ridiculous. It seems like many of the Yes-ers will not be satisfied until all you do is move your fig around and roll dice.
Noah Towns
10/16/2010, 20:41
If I have super strength I want to carry an object not a character.
If they change it to where super strength allows you to carry...SUperman better be able to grab Batman and throw him into Doomsday for +2 to damage.
Just sayin...
anodejaninis
10/16/2010, 22:31
No, because: Batman would never let Supes carry him around like an eagle on his forearm.
And that, my friends, is why bats sleep upside down...
theemaxx52ad
10/17/2010, 00:53
No, but I do think all giants should be able to carry.
T. Paul Stiles
10/17/2010, 04:09
I have thought this since IC. Seriously, how do people like Wasp and Dove carry guys like Colossus, Wolverine, and the Hulk?
This is where the question spawns from. The arguement that all flyers can carry people into battle, makes less sense than using your Super Strength characters to me. A lot of flyers wouldn't be physically strong enough carry even a regular hero like Cap.
Are you ready to give up the ability for all flyers to carry someone unless that flyer also has Super Strength?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Logically it makes more sense for a SS character to carry people than Wasp.
because it's not practical and would be exploited too much. Just because they could pick someone up, doesn't mean they would. SS should stay the way it is.
I see what you're saying, but there is a whole l,ot of stuff that happens in this game that could fit under "Just because they could, doesn't mean they would."
But good points all. You've just about got me convinced... just about.
But I still think that maybe some flyers need carry stripped from them, which is where the question really has risen.
I said it before and I'll say it again. There really is no need to make the game more confusing than it already is, really.
zangiefsjm
10/17/2010, 07:47
That would make Moonknight the best click ever.
Hulk should only be able to carry opposing figures. While he eats them.
Superfly
10/17/2010, 09:35
I don't think so. You don't need super strength to carry someone in real life. And how often do you see someone with super strength carrying someone who is perfectly capable of walking?
Pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
mecimcim
10/17/2010, 09:50
I would rather see Super Strength grant Knockback.
mahazulu
10/17/2010, 09:58
It's already an ability that is supplied with flight. In my opinion, it would be better to make it someone's special power rather than just something that all super strengthers get to use.
NeoShazam
10/17/2010, 10:08
They really need to just change the rules for Carry back to how they were before that -2 stuff. It makes no sense and really hinders gameplay.
Agreed.
Or make it -1 OR make it only minus during move actions.
HouseofEL
10/17/2010, 10:38
It's already an ability that is supplied with flight. In my opinion, it would be better to make it someone's special power rather than just something that all super strengthers get to use.
I would have to agree with this. I think super strength is fine like it is. But it would be cool to see someone like Hulk have a special power like:
Lift or Drag: Hulk can use Super Strength. When Hulk is adjacent to a friendly or non-friendly character and given a move action, he may use the carry ability on that character but only at half movement.
this game sucks more with each set, no need to make it even more worse.
cfarns0610
10/17/2010, 18:54
I think some characters with superstrength should. How many times have we seen the Hulk grab someone and leap them away to safety. I don't think that all flyers should be able to carry either. I think that they should have an Icon for characters that can.
Citizen Kabuto
10/17/2010, 23:55
But I still think that maybe some flyers need carry stripped from them, which is where the question really has risen.
In DC, most ring-slingers are very capable at 'carrying' people, yet few GL dials pack SS. On the Marvel side, I've seen Storm carry a teammate with powerful winds; Storm should not have SS. For every example you can pull out like the Wasp (and hey, hasn't she carried Ant-Man before?) there are plenty of valid examples of flyers who are not possessed of any particular strength yet do carry their teammates into battle - it happens all the time in the comic books. Let's leave well enough alone, especially on the PAC - in this new age of cards, and special abilities being given to 70% of the new dials, the game designers can just give a character the carry ability as part of a trait or special ability. Or just give them that Transporter speed symbol.
Actually what should change, is flyers with Super Strength should be able to carry a figure that is holding an object.
Also they should not have to modify their speed to -2 when carrying another figure.
(Other flyers that should not have to modify speed to -2 are ones that have: GL TA).
I agree with these 3 Points.
Rep.
But:
point 1: then the flyer cannot also pick up an object themselves.
point 2: no reduction of two if they only carry 1 figure.
point 3: If GL team member only carries 1 Figure then no reduction of 2
I think that all giants should automatically have super strength.
Follow that up with all people with super strength should be able to carry a teamate OR an object.
Flyers should have the carry ability taken away unless they do have super strength, Wasp I am looking at you.
point 1: Not ALL Giants, but certainly more than they do now.
point 2: as others have said, there are a lot of figs that WOULD NOT carry
point 3: Flight is an ability that (usually) allows to carry a person.
For those of you who want your Super Strong Figs to carry,
maybe WizKids will make a Feat that allows it for 6 Points and minimum 50 Points Figure requirment.
Or your venue could house rule it as a Standing House Rule Feat.
For Future Figs that WizKids makes:
Some Flyers (small ones or weak ones) could have a Trait for no carrying.
Some Flyers could have a Trait for no -2 reduction for carrying.
Some grounded (or dolphin) could have a Trait for carrying.
spider_ham
10/18/2010, 00:49
No.
The degree of "strength" varies with each character that possesses it, if you wanted to approach the power from a comic-accurate standpoint.
sstralkowski
10/18/2010, 08:00
I've seen flyers like Angel carry people quite often so I don't feel nerfing flyers without SS is warranted. As for the idea of SS granting carry ability, I'm not sure. I can see the logic behind it froma comics standpoint, but since it wasn't established as a game mechanic from the beginning, I think it'd have a very drastic effect on the current game. That's why I voted no.
darius_dax1
10/18/2010, 09:06
this game sucks more with each set, no need to make it even more worse.
So to goes your opinion.
The REAL ARES (DC)
10/18/2010, 09:36
I voted no, simply because this is one of the many things that both traits and special powers were created for.
Do I think Wasp should be able to carry anyone? No freakin way!!!
Should that mean Falcon shouldn't? No freakin way!!!
Those examples show why altering Super Strength doesn't solve the problem. Falcon could scoop up someone with his normal strength and carry them around for a bit. Wasp is not the same obviously. Her diminutive size should make her unable to carry people around.
On the other side of this is non-flyers, which includes people like the Hulk. Anyone who has ever read the Hulk knows he carries nearly NO ONE. Now if he carries anyone, it should be in a trait granting him limited carrying for specific people, and most likely when he doesn't have battle fury. Colossus would most likely only carry Shadowcat/Kitty Pryde or his sister Illyana/Magick.
These are, of course, specific people and under specific circumstances, which normally would not occur.
As such I restate that changing the power is not the way to go.
shoveljon
10/18/2010, 09:51
For Future Figs that WizKids makes:
Some Flyers (small ones or weak ones) could have a Trait for no carrying.
Some grounded (or dolphin) could have a Trait for carrying.
Bang. Done. Was going to write a whole thing but these two points cover it. We have traits now, this is the perfect situation to make use of them.
If it fits the character but not the game rules? Trait it!
Is it an easy and imperfect answer? Yes. Is it darn effective at conveying information right there on the card without errata and fundamental rule changes? Also yes!
voted no. if they added something so significant to a standard ability, it would throw the game out of balance. adding something else to the list of abilities granted by a power makes that power more valuable, and we already have too many ss characters to be flubbin' with the rules at this point.
rollinsolo
10/18/2010, 13:35
I have long believed that only characters with super strength and giants should be able to use the carry ability. Wasp just can't carry Red Hulk!
Edit: After reading more of the thread, I agree that GL should be able to carry, but since it's part of their TA anyway, no worries.
bagman04
10/18/2010, 13:56
If it aint broke, why fix it? Dont mess with the powers anymore. We had enough of that in the old days.
edgreen86
10/18/2010, 14:04
ICarrying someone is a very cooperative, and sometimes character specific, action. Spider-man does it when its a chicka babe he wants to get next to or just to carry someone out of harm's way. The Hulk does it when he wants to carry a specific friendly with him somewhere. So, no, SS alone cannot be a qualifier for the carry ability.
Well, not totally true. Lot's of examples of Superman carrying away characters who have been knocked out, thus saving them.
I'm in favor of Flyers needing Super Strength to carry someone.
I'd also like to see characters with Super Strength be able to carry a friendly character with two action tokens on them.
Heck, I'd like to see a rule where a character with Super Strength could pick up an opposing character and throw them. (Standard attack, if you succeed they get tossed same distance as attacking character's damage. Knock back rules apply for inflicting damage). And while we're at it, throwing opposing characters at other opposing characters. Spider-Man's done it more than once.
Tim Drake
10/18/2010, 15:00
Well, not totally true. Lot's of examples of Superman carrying away characters who have been knocked out, thus saving them.
I'm in favor of Flyers needing Super Strength to carry someone.
Not necessary, IMO. A person of normal strength, under the right circumstances, can lift another person. Now, I do have issue with Wasp carrying Hulk, but still, it keeps things simple.
I'd also like to see characters with Super Strength be able to carry a friendly character with two action tokens on them.
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I don't see the need for it.
Heck, I'd like to see a rule where a character with Super Strength could pick up an opposing character and throw them. (Standard attack, if you succeed they get tossed same distance as attacking character's damage. Knock back rules apply for inflicting damage). And while we're at it, throwing opposing characters at other opposing characters. Spider-Man's done it more than once.
While what you suggest makes sense from a comic accuracy perspective, I'd rather see something like that be a special power on specific characters that have been known to do it as a matter of course. Otherwise, it has the potential to needlessly complicate an already far-too-complicated game.
edgreen86
10/18/2010, 16:01
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I don't see the need for it.
Oh, a character that's got two tokens on it, near the end of the dial, and carried out of danger?
A_Higher_Level
10/18/2010, 16:06
It's no, and no, I'm not going to explain myself. :p
Tim Drake
10/18/2010, 16:18
Oh, a character that's got two tokens on it, near the end of the dial, and carried out of danger?
I didn't say it wouldn't be useful but from a gameplay perspective, I don't see the need for it. If you push a character and leave them exposed, that's your choice. What you're suggesting boils down to nothing more than a way to make a game drag on longer. Back in the day, I would've been fine with a feat card to allow this type of maneuver, but it shouldn't be part of a standard power by any stretch.
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