Amon Tomaz of Earth... LIVE!

[WizKidsNECA]

Hey there fellow HeroClix Fans!It’s a new week, so that means more previews! We last left off with the Monarch of Atlantis, so let’s now turn our gaze eastwards to the sandy dunes of Khandaq and check in with Osiris!
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1116&pictureid=12996

[Read More on WizKidsGames.com (http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2010/10/25/amon-tomaz-of-earth-live/)]

[mr-coffin]

Huh. Looks fun. I like the trait but it will rarely come up. If you play Extra-Ordinary Day that might increase the chances but they are still small. I wonder what would happen if you rolled the crit hit and then your opponent made you reroll. You already rolled a critical hit (before a reroll) does that mean you get the stat increase even though it was rerolled?

[Mr. Cranberry]

Huh. Looks fun. I like the trait but it will rarely come up. If you play Extra-Ordinary Day that might increase the chances but they are still small. I wonder what would happen if you rolled the crit hit and then your opponent made you reroll. You already rolled a critical hit (before a reroll) does that mean you get the stat increase even though it was rerolled?

This has been the source of quite some confusion. I'd say, yes you get the bonus do to the actual wording of the Trait. But right now I think it's being ruled otherwise. Possibly a rewrite of the trait to make it grammatically accurate with the ruling.

[Arsenalroy2k]

The figure looks fine, but two things stood out. First, I like how they try to spell out Shazam on the card, but left out the last letter.

Second, this (from the article):
Osiris’ recklessness eventually led to his demise

I don't believe that's totally accurate. He got duped by someone he thought was a friend and then eaten. Unless trust equals being reckless.

[Sparkdemon]

either way, im geting this set, for the two new additions to my mystical teams, deadman and osiris. not to mention deadmans a white lantern, and the set looks great anyways, but i think it should give it to you, because you cant use rerolls to GIVE you the power, why should you be able to use rerolls to take it AWAY?

[lancelot]

Why's his trait so confusing?

Critical hit = getting his +1 modifiers

ONLY IF

there has been no re-roll.

In short, you roll a critical hit.

Now...

NO REROLL = you get the +1 modifiers

REROLL = you don't

I'm not seeing much problem here, save other than the timing and the fact that you DID roll a critical hit. The crux here is whether it has been rerolled or not. Pretty clear to me.

[spike1138]

Osiris is going to LOVE teaming up with Immortus!

[SkrullThemeTeamer]

looks ok, I was kind of hoping he'd be a bit more powerful though, too much 2 damage in my opinion, I would have liked to maybe have seen one less 4 and two more 3s

[Mr. Cranberry]

Why's his trait so confusing?

Critical hit = getting his +1 modifiers

ONLY IF

there has been no re-roll.

In short, you roll a critical hit.

Now...

NO REROLL = you get the +1 modifiers

REROLL = you don't

I'm not seeing much problem here, save other than the timing and the fact that you DID roll a critical hit. The crux here is whether it has been rerolled or not. Pretty clear to me.

The fact that the word "Yet" is in the trait. Grammatically it reads that the Crit hit needs to be rolled on the presumption that it may yet be re-rolled.

If it weren't meant to be that way then the wording would be:

"Once per game, when Osiris rolls a Critical Hit that is not the result of a re-roll, after the action is resolved, modify his combat values by +1 for the remainder of the game."

Even if the Trait were to keep the wording it has without the word "Yet" then there would be no real confusion. The inclusion of that word though, it changes the text.

[wickedjohn]

i think the trait works something like this-you roll a crit, you get the +1. done. even if it's prob'd.
OR (here's where i think most people get confused)-you roll and hit (not a crit) or not, and either you or your opponent pc's the roll. then you roll a critical hit. since it's a re-roll you don't get the +1.
I could be wrong.

[plainoleric]

So, does that trait stack?

(ok so im a moron. it definitly says once per game...)

[kunz]

for me its that, if you rolled 12 you get the modifier, even if it is rerolled.

i can be wrong

[Marshal Law]

Why's his trait so confusing?

Critical hit = getting his +1 modifiers

ONLY IF

there has been no re-roll.

In short, you roll a critical hit.

Now...

NO REROLL = you get the +1 modifiers

REROLL = you don't

I'm not seeing much problem here, save other than the timing and the fact that you DID roll a critical hit. The crux here is whether it has been rerolled or not. Pretty clear to me.

Proof the trait is confusing is best shown by the above. Because I don't see anything in the wording that would imply the trait does not trigger if the roll is subsequently re-rolled after the critical hit - only that the critical hit occurred *before* any re-rolls.

By the strict wording, the condition triggers when the the first roll is made for an attack and that roll is a critical hit - whatever is done to the roll after that is irrelevant.

If the intent was that the attack be a critical hit without a re-roll, the wording should have been contingent on the final attack result, not just an attack roll.

[Marshal Law]

I don't believe that's totally accurate. He got duped by someone he thought was a friend and then eaten. Unless trust equals being reckless.

I can see a case for reckless being replaced by naive - reckless is taking foolish action when one should know better, naive is when one doesn't know better. Although Amon's background, having firsthand experienced the evil and duplicitous nature of others, would imply he should have been long past being naive.

The bad friends mistake was just a link in a chain of reckless (or naive) behavior, basically Anon repeatedly ignored common sense and caution in favor of absolute faith that his new abilities would assure his position. While it can be argued that his final demise was a result of misplaced trust, what put him in that position of trust was repeatedly well meaning but reckless exercises in bad judgment.

[Top10]

Anyone else notice the familiar looking sculpt.

His sculpt looks like a mirror image of Amon Sur. They are both named Amon and their colors look alike as well.

[ratdogsnakefish]

looks fun can anyone tell me what the release date for dc 75 years is thank you

[elfholme]

Other than his keywords, I REALLY REALLY like him.

It sucks that you can't put him on a theme team with Black Adam though. Hopefully the upcoming Isis has the Mystical keyword so you can at least run those two together and get a theme bonus for it.

[Troma99]

Its the same Pose for Sure...but I think its a different sculpt as opposed to a reused one because they had the digital mock up all read.

And I THINK They were trying to go for his pose at the end of Blackest Night

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/OsirisDC.png


As you can see it didn't match up welll : P


They probably weren't going for it...but whatever.

[vamroc]

I think Fabian Cortez just found himself a playmate :devious: and there is still room for everyone's favorite AUTO-REGEN for a 200 point tag team that's a killer combo

[Shuttle]

I don't believe that's totally accurate. He got duped by someone he thought was a friend and then eaten. Unless trust equals being reckless.

Depends how far you want to push it back. He killed a member of the Suicide Squad through reckless use of his strength against someone who couldn't take it. That led to him doubting his powers. Which as you pointed out led to him getting eaten. You're right that it wasn't a direct cause, but it did play a part.

[Munchoboy]

Depends how far you want to push it back. He killed a member of the Suicide Squad through reckless use of his strength against someone who couldn't take it. That led to him doubting his powers. Which as you pointed out led to him getting eaten. You're right that it wasn't a direct cause, but it did play a part.

Agreed, it's no more misleading or incorrect than:

A young Jedi named Darth Vader...betrayed and murdered your father...

And that's from the holiest of holies. ;)

[Spidersense]

I keep reading these thread titles "Amon Tomaz of Earth... LIVE!" with LIVE having a "long i" sound. I feel like I am watching a talk show.

I waiting for one to say "Larry King...LIVE!"

[Wilx]

I wish he would of had the Titans keyword. That would be a fun team to play.

[TheNolaN99]

Proof the trait is confusing is best shown by the above. Because I don't see anything in the wording that would imply the trait does not trigger if the roll is subsequently re-rolled after the critical hit - only that the critical hit occurred *before* any re-rolls.

By the strict wording, the condition triggers when the the first roll is made for an attack and that roll is a critical hit - whatever is done to the roll after that is irrelevant.

If the intent was that the attack be a critical hit without a re-roll, the wording should have been contingent on the final attack result, not just an attack roll.

Just for an extra opinion, I think you've got it here.
I think the word 'Yet' is thrown in there to A) Protect you from losing your Trait by an opponent's Re-Roll, and B) To prevent a mass Probability manipulation to attempt to get your Trait as quickly as possible.

If you roll a Critical Hit on an attack roll that has not all ready been re-rolled by a power or game effect, you activate the trait after the Resolution of the action.
If your attack roll has been re-rolled previous to your Critical Hit, it doesn't activate the trait.

[Troma99]

I wish he would of had the Titans keyword. That would be a fun team to play.

YEAH!!

Like Osiris ANd Deahtstroke....and...JAde? maybe?


Red Arrow with a Removed Arm and permanent battle Fury because he's high.