The Great King T'Challa

[PantherPriest]

Although many you may claim that the Black Panther is a good deal for his points, which he is, this does not take away from the fact that he is underrepresented for the character.

The biggest problem is a lack of defensive abilities. A vibranium mesh suit/ forcefield defenitely requires say toughness at least. Said suit has shattered knives on impact.

Another problem is that he doesn't have stealth and leap climb at the same time. Yes this is not possible considering the set he was created, but now we have the means to correct this.

And thirdly he defeated the entire fantastic four by himself, I repeat by himself. By the end of the issue they were all more or less ko'd. (If anybody mentions wyatt wingfoot I scream)

I say this is reason for a unique black panther. I understand that he isn't popular enough, but he defenitely requires one.


I would be pleased to hear your comments, if I get positive enough results I may post my version of unique panther, but people haven't responded to my threads in the past.

[Tsannik]

Another problem is that he doesn't have stealth and leap climb at the same time. Yes this is not possible considering the set he was created, but now we have the means to correct this.


the means? what means?

at least you didn't post this twice....

[PantherPriest]

well, no we don't have the means persay, but split abilities will get her eventually.

Oh I forgot leadership

[shin-goji]

Please refrain from smoking pot before making any posts. I am also baffled why no one responds to your posts, when you repeat your posts unneccessarily. This should cause for all sorts of trolling. Please enlighten us, oh Hemp Knight, unto how we can have Stealth and Leap/Climb on the same click.

[napa]

I think he means they should have split colors on the dials so you get a choice as to which power you wish to use.

[shin-goji]

While we're at it, maybe we should rewrite the whole rulebook so Black Panther CAN whip the FF's keister.

I hate to say it, but HC will rarely make your favorite hero/villian live up to your fanboy image. Spider man beat Firelord down like a monkey by himself. But in a 1 on 1 fight, Spider Man is Spider Toast. If you made Black Panther 200 points and lit up like a Christmas tree, he would still get beat by the FF because they all have more actions than he will. Using "well X took on X by himself and beat them in the comics" is a poor defense.

[PantherPriest]

I do not expect him to be able to beat the ff4 in heroclix, I do however wish him to have a chance at it. And I have in fact beat fierelord with spiderman. Just incapacitate his a$$

and I said nothing about lighting him like a christmas tree, nor 200 points. He should not be over 90 points. I am not asking for a drastic change, I am however asking for a change. My real problem is that he takes a hit too easily. Another problem is that most of panthers coolness is in his personality, which is hard to translate into clix. I could see willpower, but it's a very expensive ability, and it and outwit would be too much points.

[Remy Lebeau]

While we're doing this with our favorite super heroes can Gambit have a 17 attack and a 6 damage?

[gelf13]

The only way you could give him L/C and stealth (without doing 2 abilites) is to create a new team for him that has stealth as a team abilty, like the bat team. Unfortunatley, marvel has no comparable team.

[PantherPriest]

no gambit should have attack of 11 and damage of 2 with rce.

He does have his own team of people who kick a$$ with him, but they are not nearly popluar enough to be made clix. I could easily see a wakanda team with the dora milaje, zuri, w'kabi, taku, etc. but nobody but me and say Wakanda_man have ever heard of those folks.

I could see a random team ability, like spiderman team, because he has odd allies at random points in time. Wolverine, Ironman, daredevil, thing, moon knight, doctor strange etc. etc.

[shin-goji]

I don't, however, see BP as being popular enoughto warrant such attention or multiple figures.

[Basil Elks]

Howabout someone repaint BP, & turn him into White Wolf, Or a member of the Huante Zuana, or whatever the group of "white clad generic BP lookalikes is called.

[ANTIPASTA]

Does Back Panther even have a comic any more?

[Remy Lebeau]

hahahahahahahaha

[Vegeta1]

Hey, PantherPriest, I agree with you. They should re-do T'challa with better stats and abilities.

[D_Ronin]

I agree that the V Panther is somewhat misrepresented HOWEVER when he whoped the FF by himself it was with weeks of preparation, setting up traps and all that. Not in a slugfest or anything.

I agree on the toughness thing. Also the Uatul Zera (or something like that can never remember the spelling) Could make nice generic figures somewhat or a Vampire lackey (stealth, BCF, Toughness and a whee bit of range like 6)

[PantherPriest]

The Hatut Zeraze, also known as the dogs of war. It would be interesting to see the dogs of war as generic figs with Hunter, The white wolf as their leader. The diff between them and vamp lackeys is that the dogs of war shot stuff a lot, they didn't do much bcfing.


And I KNOW, and am dead positive that black panther isn't popular enough. I'm just saying it should happen, sides after this 160 pt elektra I think it could be done.

His current series was one of the most critically acclaimed comics every, but the book sells slightly better than an off brand indy book. Problem is, is that comic book companies don't know, or care, how to market towards black people.

Yes it still exists, currently the black panther is not the good king, he's a new york cop... don't ask.

Yes he had weeks, but panther never goes into a fight with out tricks up his sleeve, he's the marvel batman, don't believe me, then pick up the back issues of the current series. I don't expect him to be able to beat the fantastic four in actual game play, I just want it to sound semipheasable when you look at his dial.

But no, I'm not asking for drastic changes, I just used the f4 example. But that's what panther does, he watches waits and whomps. Problem is, it's hard to show this in heroclix.

[Mr. Drifter]

Oh, man, I hope I don't get torn up too badly for this, but, well, sign me up for whatever PantherPriest was smoking. I've always thought that the Panther was pretty cool, and I would not mind seeing some sort of unique like T'Challa, King of Wakanda or some such thing. I do, however, really like the veteran version of the Wakanda monarch (which I got in my very first pack of clix ever! Good times).

And yes, add me to the list of people who would like to see split abilities. If Captain America doesn't have Willpower, no one should. Yet he also needs his shield superpower (and yes, I realize Willpower wasn't around for Cap's set. I'm just trying to make a point!). Spidey needs Defend and SSenses, and so on and so forth.

Does it ruin the game that split abilities don't exist? Not at all. I just happen to think that it would add a great deal to the game, is all. And yes, I'm drunk again.

You can thank Bill Simmons for that line.

[razz10555]

I'll get it for this one I'm sure...but

I wouldn't mind seeing a new black panther clix of casper cole the costume with the pants & jacket

[Panther Cult]

As the handle probably gives away, I'm a big fan of Black Panther. It was seeing the great miniature of him on the Hero Clix dial that actually pushed me into playing this game.

I know I'm a fanboy which is why I've held off on griping about abilities I thought a BP clix should have had. He has Outwit, and he should have. He has Stealth in the R and E versions and he should have they gave heam Leap Climb in the Vet version which was nice. And they gave him B/C/F which I like and frankly thought was borderline - the guy does have claws built into the suit but you don't associate the claws with him the way you do Wolverine or Sabretooth.

Frankly, I think they did about as good as they could do for Panther. I do think he should have leadership - he's the king of a freakin' country - but where do you put it? One of the best feautres of the Panther is that he has Outwit right off the bat. I suppose I could see putting Leadership out of the gate and pushing Outwit deeper down the dial.

I'm not particularly interested in split abilities. If there is a character in the Marvel Universe that should have Stealth and Leap/Climb it's BP - but it don't work that way. It could be said that Nightcrawler should have Stealth and Leap/Climb (the guy does blend in to shadows after all and was a professional gymnast to boot) but who's going to argue that those should have been put in instead of Hypersonic Speed? Not me.

I do agree with Panther Priest that a slightly higher defense might have been in order. The vibranium suit does absorb an awful lot of damage, but perhaps they felt if the defense was too high, with outwit and leap-climb the piece wouldn't be balanced.

If I were going to look for changes to Panther maybe I'd push the defense up by 1 and start with leadership before getting to Outwit, but frankly, I think the V Black Panther is a darn fine piece and he is a staple of many of my teams.

[PantherPriest]

I wouldn't mind a casper cole either, however he may not last, I'll bet that they'd wait to see how long he lasts.

The bcf is probably there for the energy daggers, panth cult. And I like how the ability works like the daggers, since the daggers have different settings from minor wound to lethal. Leadership is a definite, come now he's a king, I'd put it right after the second outwit.

I feel that a few adjustments and he could keep his price low and still be rather balanced. Panther is definitely a staple, versions of him and the hulk are pretty much my trade mark. However in almost every game I play he goes down with in the first few turns no matter how well he's placed. Whys the black guy always die first:)

[norman_fell]

I try to take BP out quickly just to get his outwit off the board.

[PantherPriest]

as does everyone, I suppose I'm just tired of him never lasting through second round with all that vibranium he's got.

[Manchine]

Just remember one thing.

The Great King T'Challa is nothing compared to Dr DOOM. Even though they both have a certain respect for one another.

Sorry just had to say that.

:D :D :D :D ;) :p

[PantherPriest]

Doom? No one said anything about Doom. That's just experience right there, Doom's been king'n around for about 30 years. Panther for around 20, and half of that doesn't count because he was ten. No, no, Panther could definitely hold his own against Doom, for quite a while too in fact, but in the end he would bow and disappear knowing when to give.

If they had to fight, panther could prolong it for a quite long time, but doom would win in the end with out breaking a sweat. However they are equals when it comes to kinglyness, so there is a level of respect.

But Doom has nothing to do with this thread.


Didja read Spiderman 50? Doom, capitals, funny stuff.

[PantherPriest]

It seems that my threads have been getting a lot of views lately. Somebody say something.

[urlmaker]

If Panther could have a split dial with Flurry on both halves for the movement power. And then he had a split dial with BCF on both halves for the attack power. I would think that finally there would be an accurate King of Waconda. Then he could do:

Flurry x2 for a total of 4 attacks.
BCF x2 for each of the 4 attacks.

For a total of a potential 8 BCF rolls off or 4 attack rolls.

If he hit with all 4 he could do from 8 to 32 clicks of damage with his vibranium laced energy daggers.

I think this is the only way to be accurate. Oh, and he should have Invuln on both halves of the split dial too. So he would protect against 4 points of damage from each hit. (vibranium mesh armor suit)

Just my opinion though. I may be over doing it A LITTLE.

[Batman1983]

he should have toughness & Leadership followed by outwit on his V

[DaLuvster89]

Black Panther has been my favorite hero for a long time.
Like someone else mentioned (forget who at the time) seeing his miniature in the IC set was a big part of getting me into this game.
My opinion - it would be nice to have a Panther with Spiderman Team Ability, for the same reasons they gave Doom team ability to Spiral. But I don't know how much hoping for a Wildcard Panther is just my personal fandom of the character, instead of being legitimate in the scope of the game itself.
Personally, I think that Leadership on Panther's dail would be wasted points. In the scope of the game, I don't think he warrants it neccesarily. Sure, he is the King of his own country, but for the most part, he goes about his own business and doesn't necessarily "lead" groups of heroes into battle. He seems to handle his own business on his own. Maybe I'm wrong. If we are talking about a higher costed Panther, I'd rather see those points go to a better AV or Defense. Toughness would be nice, too.
I'd like to see a totally different Panther - the "Jungle Action" Panther. Leap/Climb, CCE (if they ever bring that to the Marvel set), Perhaps some Super-Senses to show how the effects of the Heart-Shaped herb have enhanced his senses.

Just my 2 cents.

[ultimatemark]

I've always liked Panther and what he represents. He's kinda the "Shaft" of the comic books for me. Just a cool dude that let's his actions speak for him. IMHO, there are a lot of figs that could have been done a little better. Not every fig is going to meet everyones idea of how they should be represented. I'm hoping that Wizkids will eventually develop newer, more accurate versions of the characters. Kang has ES for his forcefield, wouldn't INV worked better? Stuff like that. Here's to hoping....

[PantherPriest]

Am I being made fun of, urlmaker? Actually you bring up a good point, in the current series he's worked with everybody, and I could see a spiderman team ability. However whenever he meets up with another group of heroes he often does the leading, but that's primarily in his book. It's not a neccessity, I would definitely prefer the points go to toughness, If I had to pick.

And though Shaft let his actions speak for him, he defenitley did his share of speaking for himself.

[urlmaker]

Am I being made fun of, urlmaker?

Yes, I am pokin at you a bit. ;) I just think that alot of people would love to see thier favorite characters depicted as a really powerfull fig. To some extent I AGREE, I want to see some of my favorites kick some booty! On the other hand game balance is a difficult thing to maintain, I thought it was EXTREMELY generous they they made Black Panther one of the few starting outwitters on every single version. That is huge. Even Reed Richards doesn't start with outwit. He is the smartest man in the world! (Marvel Wise) But the stats show us that T'Challa is more savvy then Reed when it comes to understanding people and how to get around thier advantages. Richards just figures it out in the clutch situations.

[Batman1983]

I don't know I think they did an awesome job on Steel (DC) hes my favorite (him & batman, which is also powerful)

[PantherPriest]

Yes, steel was done very nicely, I don't see how he relates to this thread, but yes he was done well, except if read the last few issues of steel (36-52) He doesn't have super strength, because of a new lightweight suit, which makes it faster for him to steel up, since the teleporting zone is gone. But he's a great fig, despite the ugly ugly sculpt

[PantherPriest]

And daluvster, I don't need panther to kick lots of booty, I just want him to have an ability to represent his defenses, which have deflected shots from the hulk and what not.

[MidnigherApoll]

PantherPriest- Batman1983 was simply agreeing that he is happy that hsi favorite is powerful. It was a point brought up b an earlier poster, and realates.

I'd love to see a Unique Panther. He IS Marvel's Batman, and while he doesn't need to be that powerful, he should have Leaderhip and maybe increased stats, as well as Avengers team, since he's with them again!

[PantherPriest]

Marvel's batman, amen to that Apoll. However the fig was made before panth returned to the avengers.

[DaLuvster89]

It's all about what YOU need, huh PantherPriest?

Just kidding. :)

I was just thinking that if they do re-make a Panther, why do a cop-out "we forgot to give him Toughness so here's the same fig. with Toughness added and a click of Leadership."
I'd rather have something different, to represent Panther at a different stage in his career.
Honestly, I'd rather have some of Panther's enemies - Killmonger, (well I do have him, my freind made me a mod) the White Gorilla.

Now it's all about what I want all of the sudden... oops. :)

[PantherPriest]

oh yes, I would love panther villains, put them in an avenger set, however I'd want a nother panther to have a chance at fighting them. But no I definitely don't want a cop out fig, like the new and improved daredevil, though he is definitely new and improved. I'd like to see a figure entitled King T'Challa, that be cool. Give him the small cape, or give him the old costume OR even better give him the business suit, and he'll be the same guy without bcf, it'd be great.

[Fogs]

Hey all. Just thought I'd weigh in and say that Black Panther fans should feel lucky with the clixs they've gotten so far!

Its been mentioned that everyone would like to see their favorite characters be heroclix megastars, and that's true. (I only wished I liked Electra more than I do)

But beyond that, fans of Black Panther should be happy with the figs they've got!!

A) He's been made... Try holding your breath for a Silver Surfer. I know I am.

B) He may not be the clix you dream of, but simply put, he's one of the most USEFUL figs in the game!! God, how can you complain about E Black Panther? Stealth, BCF and Outwit on the first click? For a VERY reasonable price???? This guy has seen more board time in my circle than I can even relate.... Seriously, Cmon....

I apologize PP and PC, I've seen both of you around and respect your posts, but I have no sympathy for you on this issue.

Try being a Fantastic Four fan and living with Reed Richards - Mr Fantasticly Overpriced!

Or the upcoming Iron Man, who has been given a tremendous mix of abilities, but the AVs of a rookie thug...

Sorry guys, a Black Panther redo is about as close to the last fig I'd want redone that there is.

[PantherPriest]

Of course YOU don't want a new panther, fogs, you have probably not read the curent series, and I feel the epanther is the best represented of the three, especially since it is a depiction of panther between 91 and 98(when he appeared in no comics:)) I am very glad that they actually made him, I never expected him to be made at all, let alone in the opening setl. Personally he has become a heroclix megastar, since he has outwit on the first click unlike any marvel click to date. He's definitely seen his share of battle time with players around the world, and with any luck he's inspired some of you to read his comics;). I don't need him to be megasuperduper powerful, I don't even need him to be better, I just would like him to have SOMETHING that represents his vibranium defenses as a veteran, which are so much apart of his abilities in the current run. I don't need it to happen now, or even five sets from now. Sure of course, do a silver surfer before you do another t'challa, hell do three(he better be a defender dammit). I'd just like to see a panther some time in the near future(near as in less than ten years) with powers reflective of his current run. Now if they had put him in the old costume I wouldn't be complaining, he didn't have these said defenses in the old costume.

I don't no about you but I'd rather see another panther before I see another elektra.

And I definitely feel your pain on reed, although he is very useful in his veteran form, much more useful than people would like to say he is, he needs a lot of work, but hey at least he has more outwit than anyone in the marvel universe, or dc for that matter (cept darksied.)

[GluttonCreeper]

well i hope they dont screw up Moon Knight or Shroud when they do thier clix....

[Thanosied]

How can anyone in there right mind want a redo of one of the best characters in the game? I just found this post and started laughing. What a ####ing joke. Guys wake the hell up. A redo of Black Panther? Thats like saying make a better Firelord (its that dumb). Well at least you guys give us a post to show all our friends so they can have a laugh. Thanks for that.

[Fogs]

Busted. I have not read the new Black Panther.

I'll try to remember to check it out next time I'm at the shop though Panther Priest.

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended.

Oh, and V Mr F IS a good figure, he just costs so Danm much!

[PantherPriest]

If you do, fogs, then check out something in 1-49, as well as the new issues. Our Panther vanished after 49, and a completely new guy took his place, I suggest 36 is a good place to start.

So! You dare to lay your presence into the realm! Be gone with you, you who knows nothing of the way of the panther. I could care less about your nonsense of lords of fire. I could care less about who you do or do not claim to be "the best figure in the game." The panther has been wronged, and misrepresented, I care nothing of balance or reason in compared to other characters. Currently the king gets slapped around like rag doll, this can not stand. If you bothered to read the new panther series you'd notice said defenses that make up a large part of his fighting prowess. Until you actually know what you're talking about, Thanosied, I suggest you keep your braggart mouth shut and stay out of the realm!

The King Has Spoken

[Panther Cult]

I just want to chime in again and reiterate what I said earlier and what I think PantherPriest is getting at.

In the current comic incarnation Panther's suit provides him a much better defense than is represented in his clix incarnation.
that's it.

I'm not calling for a remake, I'm not crying about the injustice done to my favorite figure and I'm not clamoring for a new one now, now, now.

I love my Panther clix and agree they are some of the most playable in the game. I'd also prefer to see many more clix brought to us before we got another Panther. Namor, Silver Surfer, Crystal, Ms.Marvel/Warbird, Angel, the list goes on and on.

But being a huge fan of the current title, I agree that when it came to either defensive value or defense abilities he may have been slighted - maybe a couple of clicks of toughness would have done the trick (obviously with a slightly higher point total).

But frankly I'm ecstatic that the Panther got done at all, especially
so early in the game.

So I won't even go there about why Panther and Klaw got made in the same set but weren't AE - I mean the guy killed his dad and all....

If we weren't griping we wouldn't be comic fans right?

[Batman1983]

The game makers probably thought one of 3 things

1) their point costs are so far apart Panther wouldn't stand a chance? (snicker-BCF-snicker)

2) not big enough names. Panther doesn't have more AE potential.

3) They didn't realize they we're AEs

No matter what I'm glad they are both playable & in the current enviroment

EDIT: I'm not saying he doesn't have more AEs I'm just saying what they may have been thinking.

[PantherPriest]

I really really really really hope that they realized black panther and klaw were arch enemies. Klaw has been little more than panther's arch enemy, he's done stuff here and there, but he fights panther primarily. They did the same thing with swampthing and arcane, so I assume they realized and just didn't want to because of popularity, all of our ae's have been fairly popular so far, hell even enchantress is more popular than panther.

And he would stand a chance, you just gotta play it right, if they get into close combat klaw is screwed (which is how it works in Black Panther #29)

rookie Spidey beats hobgoblin in every version, hobgoblin has little to no chance on ko'ing spiderman, especially the vet.

[Batman1983]

Oh yeah thats what I was saying. I was snickering at the fact they may have not realized that which you just brought up. BCF is a mean mean man.

on another note I can make my favorite team thanks to IC. It almost all DC, but I like it

400:

E Black Panther 36
V Steel 74
E Batman 92
U Catwoman 85
V Nightwing 72
V Robin 22
R Huntress 18
total 399

basically team bats (289) + my other two favorite superheroes (110). The great thing is that its solid.

300:

E Batman 92
V Nightwing 72
V Robin 22
V Black Panther 46
R Steel 66
total 298

[Thanosied]

Third person huh? Well well thats too corny( I mean funny). I guess you missed the 16 defence which makes him tied for second in all of DC comics only behind Superman and U Batman. I guess you think he is better than those 2 guys. LOL. He gets punked? He has stealth and Outwit anyone would beg for those in combination. Tackle that with BCF and he could possibly do 6 damage to any fig in the game.

I think its time to re-evaluate your sanity. Seriously. If I where to go check out this series and its another Elektra Assasin thing and that Black Panther gets made at 160 points. I will bomb the hell out of Wizkids in Seattle. That would be so STUPID I can't even begin where to start. Get a new favorite character its like liking Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu for gods sake. My GOD you are the reason characters like Superman and Thanos are for #### in this game.

[Dexceus]

Originally posted by Panther Cult

So I won't even go there about why Panther and Klaw got made in the same set but weren't AE - I mean the guy killed his dad and all....

If we weren't griping we wouldn't be comic fans right?

Not everyone who has an AE in the comic books is going to get one in the game. If for no other reason, then the fact that would mean most of the figures would have AEs. For one, there are only so many different color basis that they can have. Two, it would lose the uniqueness that having an AE gives.

And why exactly can't comic fans not gripe? It would be a much welcomed change.

[DaLuvster89]

Thanosied wrote:

I think its time to re-evaluate your sanity. Seriously. If I where to go check out this series and its another Elektra Assasin thing and that Black Panther gets made at 160 points. I will bomb the hell out of Wizkids in Seattle. That would be so STUPID I can't even begin where to start. Get a new favorite character its like liking Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu for gods sake. My GOD you are the reason characters like Superman and Thanos are for #### in this game.

First off, take it easy, there, big fella! No need to get all juked up over this! Panther Preist reiterated his stance that he would just like to have a Black Panther with Toughness. No one is arguing the effectiveness of the current Panther figs. A few clicks of Toughness might make the current V Panther 50 - 60 points. For those of us who are Panther fans, we wouldn't mind putting up those points for a Panther fig. Personally, I like the V's Leap/Climb capabilities over the E's Stealth, especially in high-point games.
The put-downs, though not direct, ("That would be stupid", "Get a new favorite character") are really un-neccesary. I would assume from your name that your two favorite characters are Thanos and Darksied. Did they become your favorite after you started playing this game?
I can't begin to fathom where your last sentance comes from.
"My GOD you are the reason characters like Superman and Thanos are for #### in this game."
Thanos was made in the first set, long before fanboy's like us opinions even had a place to be voiced. We had nothing to do with his combat dail. And if you think Thanos is "for ####",
I'd like to have some of what you are puffin' on. Sure, some people feel that Thor has made him "obsolete", but HE HAS AN AV OF 15! "For ####" my ###!
Superman in a lot of ways was a dissapointment to us all - his Rookie only does 2 damage, lowish attack value/defense, too much leadership - But anything left to complain about with him went right out the window with the new LE. Once again claiming that anyone in this forum had anything to do with that is ludicrous.

Leave us Panther fans be to discuss our favorite character.
Your first post was funny. Your second was a lil' insulting.

[Thanosied]

I actually agree 100% percent DaLuvster89, you bring up good points and I was just #####ing about stuff. The views I expressed were a little insulting and I hope all will excuse them. A new Black Panther with toughness would probably jack up his cost by 20 points which would make him less playable but more diserable for his fan base. I like this idea because its the same thing I want done with Iceman, so excuse my abuse of your character and hopefully I wont make bad rants like that again.

[PantherPriest]

actually toughness is a fairly cheap power, costing only 3 points per click or so, he would still be under 60 points.

Come now, stop comparing dc and marvel clix, does beasts defense of 17 make him better than superman. Dc stats suck, it's afact of life.

[DaLuvster89]

Thanosied - no hard feelings, buddy.
I'm sorry if I was coming down hard on you, but it seems like there are a lot of new "faces" around here, and people just aren't giving each other common courtesy or respect.
I figure that it's up to those of us who have been here for a while to "lead by example" and show the decency to each other that each of us deserves. I really don't want this site to lose it's constructive nature, but it seems lately that noone wants to take each other's opinions into consideration at all. Plus there has been a lot of name calling - just juvinile behavior.
Let's keep ourselves focused on making this site a great place to chat about the table-top game we all enjoy. It only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the whole lot!