Con Artists and Sentinels

[shin-goji]

The SHIELD ruling a few months back put a crimp in playing SHIELD Agents with Sentinels. Only being able to boost one of the two multi-attacks with the SHIELD Team ability was a fair ruling, but hurt the effectiveness of the multi-attack. Perplex was ruled to increase the power of both attacks, but cheap perplexers were no where to be seen. The cheapest was a veteran Doctor Octopus.

With the Con Artist ranging from 11 to 16 points, the rules have changed. On round one move your Con Artists forward. Round two move them again and you have Perplex. The 200 Point Sentinel can make a running shot with only two pushed Con Artists, and have his damage increased by two. Give yourself another push on the Sentinel next round, if you like, and double shot. You damage of 3 is increased to 5, then split for two attacks of 4 and 4, all without having to take an action. Combined with a rookie Invisible Girl for a ranged defense of 20, then have him carry a SHIELD agent or two, and the Sentinel takes its place as the powerhouse that it should be.

For a 100 Point Sentinel, the combinations are increased even more. I would hesitatte to field nine Con Artists at once, but two shots of 8 and 8 are hard to resist if you can afford the actions.

[Spidersense]

Shin-goji, you will have to invent a new Perplex dance for the Con Artist when you play them. It should probably involve dollar bills or something.

[Tsannik]

Just spend 32 points for a V-Avalanche.

200-point team

100-point Sentinel
32-point V Avalanche
66-points (6x11-point) R Con Artists

Have V-Avalanche do a Pulse Wave, hitting all your Con Artists
In the same turn, Perplex up Sentinel's Damage by 6. Multi-attack gives-1.... that mean 2 attacks for 7 damage...

Someon tries to attack Con Artists? Barrier them with Avalanche!

Genious!

[shin-goji]

Cash Rules Everything Around Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all!
Oh yeah, perplex damage up by 3, multi-attack E Firelord and R Firelord, damage reduced by 1 for 5 and 5 damage.

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by Tsannik
Have V-Avalanche do a Pulse Wave, hitting all your Con Artists
Genious!
Ah ah ah. Can't do that. You can't target friendly figures with Pulse Wave. I wanted to use Enchancement on the Sentinel but there are no non-Xmen figures or cheap enhancers.

[HeroComplex]

Pulse Wave is only targeted if there is only a single figure being attacked. Once a second Con Artist enters the picture, the PW isn't targeting and so being friendly doesn't matter.

[webhead817]

Actually, the Pulse Wave idea is fine. Pulse Wave doesn't discriminate between friendly and non-friendly figs, so it works in this instance, as long as their is more than one fig who will be affected.

(D'oh! HC beat me to it...)

[Tsannik]

Bad Shin!

Trying to help you out here and you doubt *me*?! :p

[shin-goji]

Wait wait wait...I swore not 30 minutes ago I saw a thread where the rules say you cannot target your own figures with an attack, and that you cannot attack yourself. Since Pulse Wave targets your own characters at the beginning of the round, because no one else is on your side of the board, the only figures that can be targetted are your own. I know I haven't taken so much aspirin I'm seeing things.

[Puuka]

So surround him with 5, move one in front of him on your first turn, pulse, and you have 6 ready to go

[de4dp00l]

That's right, pulse wave works just fine on friendly figures, as long as there's at least 2 of 'em in range.

The Con Artist may just be my new favorite piece. I can 3 of them for only a little more than a single R Harley, and for less than a R Riddler. I don't usually favor dupes, but when I use 'em, I don't pull any punches.

200 point Sentinel + 18 Con Artists= my new 400 point team when everyone else pisses me off.

[Rynth]

Unless there is only one person in range Pulsewave doesn't have targets, it has effected figures.

[Tsannik]

So surround him with 5, move one in front of him on your first turn, pulse, and you have 6 ready to go
Well, wouldn't need to move anyone.

V-Avalanche has a Range value of 8. Half of that is 4. Just make sure all your Con Artists are within 4 Range.... and your Sentinel is not within that Range.
200 point Sentinel + 18 Con Artists= my new 400 point team when everyone else pisses me off.
This make me laugh while drinking cola....do you know how much cola hurts when it comes up through your nose? :p lol

[WarHULK]

I was going to say that you could mix things up by running Gambit and Mystique with the Sentinel for some more cheap-yet- useful perplex figures... then I remembered, "Doh! They're both AEs to him!"

an army of Con Artists is a scary scary thing. I have the feeling that my E Ultron is going to have a full time job EEing them out of perplex... hey, if you boost his EE to do 2 damage per splash you can clear out an entire army of Rook. Con Artists. :D I guess that's not too bad, eh?

[proditor]

I thought you couldn't put avalanche with a sentinel because they are AE's?

[shin-goji]

Targeting Friendly Figures
You cannot target a friendly figure with a damaging attack. Additionally, a character may never target himself with any attack or super power—damaging or healing.


Isn't this from the rule book. Now mind you, I'm not arguing. If i can Pulse Wave my own figures it goes totally in my favor. But I want to make a correct ruling one something I saw previously. I had brought this question up before and targeting your own characters was illegal back then.

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by proditor
I thought you couldn't put avalanche with a sentinel because they are AE's?

Now THAT much is true! A rookie blizzard can be used in his place.

[Thorgrin]

That's not too bad of a team. Counter team (200 points)

Vet Firelord =97 points
Rookie Blizzard x2 = 70
Exp Wasp = 33 points

Wasp moves Firelord into position. Firelord attacks, does lots of damage.

Have Blizzard throw up a barrier to look like this (b=barrier, f=firelord, w=Wasp, S= sentinel)

S

B B
B B
F
W

So even if the Sentinel does his multi attack, he has to blast through twice (which takes up his two attacks). Now I can alternate between my blizzards to not take push damage.

If you decide to do the same, it's just a matter of time as at one point you'll be pushed and unable to put up a barrier.

Can replace Firelord with someone else that may be cheaper (vet bullseye) and get even more figures, but this team effectively shuts yours down. I can then pick off con artists at range and at leisure....


Originally posted by Tsannik
Just spend 32 points for a V-Avalanche.

200-point team

100-point Sentinel
32-point V Avalanche
66-points (6x11-point) R Con Artists

Have V-Avalanche do a Pulse Wave, hitting all your Con Artists
In the same turn, Perplex up Sentinel's Damage by 6. Multi-attack gives-1.... that mean 2 attacks for 7 damage...

Someon tries to attack Con Artists? Barrier them with Avalanche!

Genious!

[Tsannik]

Yes, but Pulse Wave, by it very nature:

Is a Targetted attack when there is one opposing figure.
Is a Targetted attack when there is one friendly figure (but cannot target your own figures)

Is an untargetted attack where there are 2 or more friendly or opposing figures within range...

And Poo! on all of you that pointed out my Avalanche thing.... Okay okay...

Bring R-Blizzard back for 35 points then

100 point Sentinel
35 point R- Blizzard
55 (5x11 point Con Artists)
10 point Paramedic.

[webhead817]

Rookie Blizzard has Pulse Wave, doesn't he? He might work just as well.

Shin, Pulse Wave has it's own screwy targeting rules, I think the faq clears it up under Pulse Wave, not under targeting.

[shin-goji]

Well I'll be a Mac OS10 Sentinel...I think I needs to get me a new Blizzard! I got the E and V versions.

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by Tsannik
100 point Sentinel
35 point R- Blizzard
55 (5x11 point Con Artists)
10 point Paramedic.

Better yet, a 10 point SHIELD agent to carry along for that initial running shot. The perplex is handy for helping to capture slippery characters.

"Rubbing yourself down with butter is visually appealing She-Hulk, but this units parameters will allow him to capture you. Huh huh huh huh, this unit said 'unit." -- Sentinel Mark III

[Thunderbolts]

Heck, Veteran Boomerang can clear out a horde of Con Artists (with some Shield or Psylocke support) - so Ultron is going to completely eliminate the pimping business across the world...

[webhead817]

From the faq...

"Pulse Wave

Pulse Wave does not target characters."

I think the intent is that Pulse Wave targets every figure in range in the traditional sense, but doesn't target in the way targeting is defined in the game.

Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed.

[WarHULK]

...............C.......S S SH
C C C B C...........S S


Ok, so in the above situation you have Blizzard PW first turn, then have Shield guy boost the damage and have Sentinel RS infront of the con artist. Fun stuff. Atleast one Con Artist will be able to pump the Sentinel up first turn aswell... maybe if you put the last Con Artist on the back line and the rest on the second line you can pump him up with two perplexers the first turn aswell as the shield. That is a nasty team.

[shin-goji]

Worse yet, have the Sentinel's attack value boosted, so he does a Running Shot with EE enhanced by the SHIELD agent for 2 clicks of damage on one hit and 1 click of damage for the other! Or the perplex boost could give him a 15 range!

[Tsannik]

Well, yeah... but in a 200 point game... where are you getting all your actions?

1st action goes to Blizzard to Pulse Wave
2nd Action goes to Sentinel to kick butt...


And for anyone who comes up with a 'Counter-team' that has any Firelord in it......

well, isn't that a counter-team for any other team?

[shin-goji]

Sentinels just say no to 200 point games :P

[Thorgrin]

It could be a counter for any team.

Ok, put in a Vet Dr. Strange. The results are still the same, just takes a little longer (4 vs 5 points), or Vet Klaw.. Or Vet Bullseye (3 points), etc, etc, etc. They are ALL a counter to this team and possible a lot more teams that rely on range combat and don't have any ground support.

Again, Wasp moves for free (avengers). Figure x (firelord, dr. strange, cyclops, whoever) shoots. That's 1 action. Next action, put up barrier as described in previous post. That's the 2nd action. Next turn. Rest Wasp/Figure X, have blizzard #2 put up barrier. Rest blizzard #1. Repeat til you win.

*shrug*

Yes, it may lend some teams some extra help, but in the end, with a 0 base range, low stats, they're a one trick pony that is very easily countered.

Originally posted by Tsannik
Well, yeah... but in a 200 point game... where are you getting all your actions?

1st action goes to Blizzard to Pulse Wave
2nd Action goes to Sentinel to kick butt...


And for anyone who comes up with a 'Counter-team' that has any Firelord in it......

well, isn't that a counter-team for any other team?

[Tsannik]

It could be a counter for any team
As long as you admit it. I know that this team was a one trick pony. It was made to maximize the cheap Perplex for a Sentinel.
Just trying to have you think outside the Firelord box.

I would almost bet that a team of nothing but Destiny could counter the team... in the right hands...

[shin-goji]

Not as one trick as you might think. I've run Harleys into battle while Sinestro shoots the figures that they tie up. Two or three con artists would be enough or a threat, paired with an Invisible Girl, then another good support figure. SHIELD agents could be used to go base to base with enemy figures to tie them up while the Sentinel takes potshots.

[Billy Jack]

Originally posted by Spidersense
Shin-goji, you will have to invent a new Perplex dance for the Con Artist when you play them. It should probably involve dollar bills or something.
does this mean we have to take pencilin before touching the con artist? just wondering? Bah I am just going to do to con artist what I do for medics, take em out quick . BJ

[Izzboticus]

I'm making a Pimp Hat and Coat for my Sentinel.

[shin-goji]

Give him a cane and some fish bowl platform shoes too!

[Thorgrin]

lol, yep. To be honest, I wouldn't even field that team. I don't even like Blizzard. hahahahahaha. I think with the current expansions, Firelord really isn't all that terrific anymore. Don't get me wrong, he's a good first strike hitter, but if you hit him once and then use, say, nightcrawler to either tie up or pop the medic, he then becomes a very "normal" figure. Just the initial 5 points hurts like a mofo. :)

Originally posted by Tsannik

As long as you admit it. I know that this team was a one trick pony. It was made to maximize the cheap Perplex for a Sentinel.
Just trying to have you think outside the Firelord box.

I would almost bet that a team of nothing but Destiny could counter the team... in the right hands...

[wonderboy8917]

Screw perplexing Sentinels, how bout Nightcrawler!

For only 66 points, (6 Rook CAs and what vet Doc Oct goes for) I can perplex up Nightcrawlers's attack to 12 and damage to 6!
OR
Perplex his attack to 16 and taxi him b2b to do a super hyper attack!

Throw in 2 barrier people to alternate throwing it around him to keep him protected. (one will obviously be V Avalanche for his PW on the Con artists)

Also, anyone with Flurry can get perplexed up to do 2 attacks of massive destruction! I sense Quicksilver, Whirlwind and Logan becoming extremely powerful, and playable characters.

The combos are endless.

[Thorgrin]

actually you wouldn't be able to start a hypersonic attack. If you do, his damage is reduced to 1. Now they could up his AV so that he could probably hit more times in a row, but that's something different altogether.

[wonderboy8917]

Originally posted by Thorgrin
actually you wouldn't be able to start a hypersonic attack. If you do, his damage is reduced to 1. Now they could up his AV so that he could probably hit more times in a row, but that's something different altogether.

That's what I was talking about for uping his attack 16, you would be able to roll several times without missing. If you rolled lucky enough you could get to 10 damage or more.

[scowlingone]

Originally posted by Thorgrin
actually you wouldn't be able to start a hypersonic attack. If you do, his damage is reduced to 1. Now they could up his AV so that he could probably hit more times in a row, but that's something different altogether.

That's exactly what he said, actually.

[Puuka]

Originally posted by Thorgrin
actually you wouldn't be able to start a hypersonic attack. If you do, his damage is reduced to 1. Now they could up his AV so that he could probably hit more times in a row, but that's something different altogether.

Only on the attack that starts B2B. On the running attack it is left at the original value (2 for Nightcrawler) Perplex it up, and you have some major hurting.

Also, you could perplex 'Crawlers range to get those flyers that insist on soaring. :p