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Arsenalroy2k
11/01/2010, 18:16
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=12944
featuring...
The Thunderbolts

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13106

Arsenalroy2k here, welcoming you to another volume of the Marvel edition of Comic Accurate. At the end of my last article, I said we'd be doing something dark this time around. And originally I was going to do the Dark X-Men. But with Giant Size X-Men on the way, I opted to hold off on that at least until I see the new Mystique dial and if we're going to get a Weapon Omega. But we're still going to do something dark, just in terms of the tone. And it's tough to get darker in tone than Warren Ellis' post-Civil War run on the Thunderbolts.

Arsenalroy2k
11/01/2010, 23:55
Now this is a big occasion, folks. See, this is my tenth article. So here to help me celebrate this milestone and discuss this week's team is a special guest. You may know him as a former head of HAMMER and a former member of both the Dark Avengers and the Thunderbolts. Perhaps you know him for murdering Gwen Stacy. But what we all know him for is his incredible hair! Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm HCRealms welcome to Norman Osborn!

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13099
Wonderful to be here, you sniveling milksop.

We're off to a classy start. Thanks, Norm. I guess we'll start with your figure.

ws023 Norman Osborn
Team: S.H.I.E.L.D.
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 66
Keywords: Dark Avengers, H.A.M.M.E.R., Politician, Ruler, Thunderbolts
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst6916269162681616815168151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Unbalanced: Once at the beginning of the game roll a d6. On a roll of 3-4, put a sanity token on this card. On a roll of 5-6, you may choose to put a sanity token on this card.
(Speed) Alter Ego: Patriot of Goblin?: Give this character a power action. This this card has a sanity token, replace this character with a {ws}#039 Iron Patriot. If this card does not have a sanity token, replace this character with a {ws}#058 Green Goblin instead. Begin the replacement on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well as action token and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement is considered to be its orange point value for all game effects.

For feats, I'd definitely put Contingency Plan on him, so even if he spends most of the game hanging back, he can provide a degree of support for your figures out in the field. And you may want to bring both the Green Goblin and Iron Patriot figures just in case you need to use his Alter Ego power. Though if you have the choice, you'll want to lean towards changing into the Goblin, that way whatever ATA you choose will carry over.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13102
Yes, bring them both. Keep them safe and hidden away from prying eyes. Waiting. Waiting for Norman... (*unintelligble muttering*)

We're one figure in and I'm already regretting this. Let's move onto the next figure, a veteran member and the "field leader" of the Thunderbolts: Moonstone.

ha022 E Moonstone
Team: Avengers
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 76
Keywords: Celebrity, Masters of Evil, Thunderbolts
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A good figure that you can afford to push to get her second click, giving her ES/D with no other changes to her stats. Then throw on Camouflage so you can give her a little more safety from ranged attacks. And even if she gets hit, she then becomes a mobile Outwitter.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13097
She's useful right to the end. And if she gets KO'd, you can just use that as something to taunt Hawkeye with, rubbing his smug face in it!

Oh yeah, because the last time you mocked some guy's dead blonde girlfriend, that worked out so well for you. Let's move on to the next member. I'd say he's the team's resident psychopath, but that could describe half the team. So here's Bullseye!

ui114 V Bullseye
Team: Sinister Syndicate
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 43
Archenemy: Daredevil (Green)
Keywords: Martial Artist, Thunderbolts
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst61116161015159141581314712146111KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

It's really tempting to use the new Web of Spider-Man version considering how good he is, but this Bullseye, for less than half of what the new one costs is still pretty deadly. Especially if we put Elite Sniper on him, so even if he gets based, he can still use his RCE and not just get hampered by a damage of one.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13101
Exactly, keep him well out of the fray and picking people off from a distance. He's your hidden weapon. A man after my own heart.

I'm not touching that one. Just remember he won't be *that* hidden, since using Elite Sniper means you won't be able to shoot through your own guys, unlike when using Trick Shot. Plus, even with the Sharpshooter ability gained from the feat, his defense is still low enough that if some close combat fighter gets in there, he could be in serious trouble. So keep him as safe as possible. And speaking of people who could be trouble in close combat, let's get to Venom!

ha038 V Venom
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 73
Keywords: Celebrity, Thunderbolts
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(Special) Special: Venom can use Leap/Climb

One of the more vicious tie-up pieces out there, Venom's Plasticity can keep opponents nearby, while Shape Change and Super Senses can drive your opponents up the wall preventing attacks or damage. Part of me would be tempted to use a feat like Pounce on Venom and give him some kind of movement attack, but instead I've opted for both Entangle and Takedown. Both because they could theoretically drive the annoyance factor up even more. Entangle giving Venom a second chance to avoid being attacked altogether and Takedown to push your opponent if they miss (or you get Super Senses).

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13100
It's been my experience that if Gargan is well fed before going into battle, he performs better.

Well fed? Like giving him Scooby Snacks or something?

If by "Scooby Snacks", you mean "live babies", then yes.

I'm just going to pretend this little exchange never took place.

Your readers should be so lucky.

Anyways... Next up is another longtime member: Songbird.

ff043 R Songbird
Team: Avengers
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 44
Keywords: Femizons, Masters of Evil, Thunderbolts
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Having a Songbird with TK could prove very useful on this team, since there's only a few characters in this group that have any move and attack powers. But using the 44 point version means that you won't likely be using her offensively since her attack value at this level stinks.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13098
Yes, but all the other versions of that trollop can't be thrown off a bridge and used to take the damage that's meant for me.

I think you mean "thrown under the bus".

No, I meant what I said.

Forget it. Radioactive Man is next!

sn063 V Radioactive Man
Team: Avengers
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 80
Keywords: Scientist, Thunderbolts
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With Poison on the second click along with better attack and damage values, you may want to push him. But personally, a second person with Psychic Blast could come in very handy, so don't be in too much of a rush to get rid of it.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13103
Did I ever tell you my favorite joke about Radioactive Man?

No. Is it racist?

...Yes.

I'll pass. I like this gig too much. Jeez, Norm. I thought you'd be contributing tactical battle plans. Instead I'm getting racism and morbid humor.

I have cornrows, dress in green and purple tights and throw exploding pumpkins at people. How strategic were you expecting me to get?

Good point. Moving on to the most tortured soul ever-

The Mod who has to review this piece?

I was trying to say Penance.

ha043 R Penance
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 58
Keywords: Celebrity, Thunderbolts
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst6101626916259151581515814257142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) 612 Souls: Penance can use Force Blast. If he does, he can target all adjacent opposing characters and make a separate roll for each or choose a single target character up to 6 squares away to which he can draw a clear line of fire.
(Damage) Pain is My Power: When Penance takes damage from an attack made by an adjacent opposing character, the attacker takes 2 damage. This is not an attack.

The former Speedball's dial might not look too impressive, but like many pieces, he might play better with some help.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13104
Like say, if I counter an opposing character's defense, I use my TA to bump up Penance's damage to a three. Then after he attacks, I follow it up with a ranged attack of my own.

Yeah! Sounds doable.

And if that targeted character gets a Shape Change or Skrulls TA roll, Penance could instead use his ranged Force Blast to knock them back into a wall or off elevated terrain.

Exactly! Now that's the kind of strategy I was hoping for!

Or I could Mastermind damage to him! Because he's a trusting fool!

Aaaaand we're back. I knew things were going too well. Finally, our remaining member is Swordsman.

sn009 V Swordsman
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 49
Keywords: Lethal Legion
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Okay, that's going to be a controversial pick, Norman. While the dial isn't totally inaccurate for what Andreas Strucker could do, the sculpt is clearly Jacques DuQuesne (or Philip Javert). People aren't going to find that very comic accurate.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=13105
Oh, boo hoo! Sculpt or not, he serves our needs. Just lob him at our opponents for the Charge/Blades combo or keep him near me for the Mastermind fodder. If things end up with the incestous little ghoul getting KO'd or stabbed through the chest and thrown off a mountain, then so be it!

Wow, another teammate you wouldn't mind seeing dead. I'm starting to notice a trend here. How did you not conquer Asgard again?

I'm crazy. What's your excuse for this article?

Settle down, Norm. Now the aforementioned figures with all the feats I've mentioned (Contingency Plan, Camouflage, Takedown, Entangle and Elite Sniper) come out to 543 points. Add in fifty-six more for the Thunderbolts ATA on everyone but Swordsman, and that brings the total to a 599 point team that can adapt to most situations. Whether it's Ultimates, Skrulls, Syndicate, Mystics or some other Marvel team ability. Whatever works.

Of course, the big drawback here is there's 110 points in feats and ATA's on this team. Over a sixth of the build. Kind of a gamble, but you could always bump the build up to 700, swap out Infinity Challenge/Universe Bullseye with the Web of Spider-Man version, upgrade Songbird to the vet and then only have a seventh of the team in cardboard. Whatever works best for you. Special thanks to Norman Osborn for joining us in this article. Any last words, Norman?

Peter Parker sucks. Norman gets it done. Osborn in 2012!

Thanks, Norm. Next time, we're going back to the 80's!

Pepsirox08
11/02/2010, 00:30
this was probably the funniest review u have done.. and no love for the vet sinister bullseye? and i would probably just start with goblin.. and radio man can get the boot.. still love the t-bolts!

Mr. Cranberry
11/02/2010, 00:33
I like the addition of the Old Skool Bullseye, but if I can't fit the new one on then the Sinister Vet is where the hotness is at.

sn081 V Bullseye
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 65
Archenemy: Daredevil (Yellow)
Keywords: Thunderbolts
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He takes the best of both and makes it economical.

Grandmaster_owl
11/02/2010, 00:33
I though you could only do 10% in feats? So, 110 is more than 60 pts...

2 Gun Kid
11/02/2010, 00:36
May I suggest Citizen V for Swordsman, keep the keyword, similar power, and still keep the mastermind.

STUimus Prime
11/02/2010, 00:38
Great article! Props to norman, what a caring leader.(maybe that's how he got gwen stacy to sleep with him?)

robedestroyer
11/02/2010, 00:46
A very entertaining article, not your mama's comic accurate story. I thoroughly enjoyed this Thunderbolts review.

HH2011003
11/02/2010, 00:51
I though you could only do 10% in feats? So, 110 is more than 60 pts...

ATA's don't count towards the feat cap anymore, with the whole Golden/Modern Age divide they count as a whole different type of card now.

petenbailey9
11/02/2010, 01:08
Best article yet!

WakandaMan
11/02/2010, 01:12
Love the Thunderbolts, although this is my second least favourite line up for them.

I agree on trying to use the Vet Sinister Bullseye if possible. That one feels the most like Bullseye to me (much more accurate than WoS uber-close combat Bullseye).

I'm also not keen on using the Vet Swordsman all that much, if for no other reason than he breaks the theme team bonus. Citizen V is an okay sub, but I'd probably just leave him out altogether (Andreas never got much of a showing in the run anyway).

DrugSex
11/02/2010, 01:31
Is anywhere there an article of the checkmates?

beardedtoyman
11/02/2010, 02:19
I though you could only do 10% in feats? So, 110 is more than 60 pts...

110pts in feats and ATAs total - 56 points for the ATA, and 54 for the feats. Remember, ATAs are no longer feats, and don't count towards the feat cap.

EDIT: D'oh, forgot to refresh the page - waaaaaaaay to slow. :)

Mr. Cranberry
11/02/2010, 11:36
Great article! Props to norman, what a caring leader.(maybe that's how he got gwen stacy to sleep with him?)

Nope. Just another decision by Quesada.

Shawnbesaw
11/02/2010, 14:38
Loved the article Arsenalroy2k, I have got to give you mad props galore. I'm still kinda wanting the WOS Bullseye because he is so friggin’ awesome. WOS really works for me with all the figures from the commons to the chases. Can't wait for DC 75th and thanks again for all the articles (all 10 to date). I’ve been playing for just over a year now and it is great to see not only your views of the game, but all the extra input from everyone else.

The Arachnid
11/02/2010, 15:02
Personally, I would have used Citizen V as my 'Swordsman' Stand-in. But I think thats the beauty of these articles: to get peoples creative juices flowing without have to resort too much cheese.

Fallout13
11/02/2010, 15:34
Oh wow, this makes me nostalgic for the pre-civil war New Thunderbolts team. Sadly some of their Heroclix interpretations don't hold up to today's standards. Av034 Baron Zemo, Songbird, Radioactive Man, Blizzard, Mach-IV, Speed Demon, Atlas, Photon (Genis), and don't forget the unmade Swordsman (Andreas), Joystick, and Smuggler....I didn't realize how many people were on this line-up. Of course several came and went as the comic progressed.

PS - I LOVED THE WRITE UP. Norman is hilarious. Great stuff.

y2schwabe
11/02/2010, 16:49
Awesome Article! But I like to tend toward:

WOS Norman Osborn - 66 + Con plan 12, Bring Iron Patriot & Green Goblin for AE
HOT Moonstone - 76 Camoflage 8
HOT Songbird - 83
HOT Venom - 73 + Vampirism 12, Entangle 8
HOT Penance - 58
SN Vet Bullseye - 65
SN Vet Radioactive Man - 80
T-bolts - 48
Total - 599

I like the double target Incap on Songbird, and i find her to be a little better attacker then the FF version. I would rather use the running shot to wear down opponents and get into position.

What else can I say about SN Bullseye that hasnt already been said?

And I just choose to not have a standin for Swordsman, although I would rather bring in the Exp Swordsman for lower points builds and forgo the theme team bonus.

obesesniper93
11/02/2010, 21:01
LOVE the creepy voice in the back of your head... just take your meds it'll be okay :)

LOVE the old school bullseye!

fastcat99
11/03/2010, 15:00
I like playing Thunderbolts, but not being able to use suicide squad with them anymore as the ATA makes me sad.

veguto
11/03/2010, 19:31
Thank you for this, and I would like Norman Osborn's take on future teams.

Arsenalroy2k
11/03/2010, 22:55
WOS Norman Osborn - 66 + Con plan 12, Bring Iron Patriot & Green Goblin for AE
HOT Moonstone - 76 Camoflage 8
HOT Songbird - 83
HOT Venom - 73 + Vampirism 12, Entangle 8
HOT Penance - 58
SN Vet Bullseye - 65
SN Vet Radioactive Man - 80
T-bolts - 48
Total - 599

Your numbers are slightly off a bit. All those figures have the T-Bolts keyword and would thus make it 56 points for the ATA.

CheeseWiz
11/04/2010, 00:35
The Thunderbolts are by far one of my favorite comics (this line-up) and heroclix teams to play. This article was fantastic in every way. Thanks for the fun read, and rep!

EDIT:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Arsenalroy2k again.

I must find you funny on a regular basis. Can someone lend a rep?

MykleMetro
11/04/2010, 01:08
Norm has outwit not leadership.

Arsenalroy2k
11/04/2010, 01:41
Norm has outwit not leadership.

He has mastermind though.

WakandaMan
11/04/2010, 03:48
This thread has got me keen to try and make some Thunderbolts line-ups of my own:

Original member T-bolts:

100pts-
R FF Songbird 44pts
w/Protected 8pts
R Jolt 32pts
Tbolts ATA x2 = 16pts
Total: 100pts (only possible 100pt team I believe, unless you don't use the ATA)

200pts -
Citizen V 58pts
w/Opportunist 10pts
HoT Moonstone 76pts
R Jolt 32pts
Tbolts ATA x3 = 24pts
Total: 200pts

Citizen V 58pts
w/Vault 3pts & Cont. Plan 12pts
R FF Songbird 44pts
R MACH-I 58pts
Tbolts ATA x3 = 24
Total: 199pts

300pts -
Citizen V 58pts
w/Cont Plan 12pts
HoT Moonstone 76pts
E FF Songbird 67pts
w/Protected 8pts
E Jolt 46pts
Tbolts ATA x4 = 32pts
Total: 299pts

400pts -
Citizen V 58pts
E Atlas 107
HoT Moonstone 76pts
E FF Songbird 67pts
w/Coordination 6pts
E Jolt 46pts
Tbolts ATA x5= 40pts
Total: 400pts

500pts -

Full Founders Squad:
Citizen V 58pts
w/Cont Plan & Lunge 3
E Atlas 107
HoT Moonstone 76pts
E FF Songbird 67pts
E Techno 71pts
R MACH-I 58pts
Tbolts ATA x6= 48pts
Total: 500pts

That's a start! I might try some other lineups later

y2schwabe
11/08/2010, 02:20
Your numbers are slightly off a bit. All those figures have the T-Bolts keyword and would thus make it 56 points for the ATA.

O_O Your right... I thought something wasn't right. uhhh, I will take off Camo from Moonstone, and push her 2nd turn and rely on her high ranged defense.

Last time I post a team at work...

WakandaMan
11/08/2010, 02:54
Here's my next installment of comic-accurate Thunderbolts teams...

Hawkeye-led Thunderbolts:

200 -

Av SR Hawkeye 56
HoT Moonstone 76
R Songbird 44
Thunderbolts x3 = 24
Total: 200pts!


300 -
Av SR Hawkeye 56
HoT Moonstone 76
U Charcoal 90
E Jolt 46
Thunderbolts x4 = 32
Total: 300pts!

FF Vet Hawkeye 84
HoT Moonstone 76
E Songbird 67*
*w Protected 8
R Jolt 32
Thunderbolts x4 = 32
Total: 299pts

400 -
Av SR Hawkeye 56
HoT Moonstone 76
E MACH-III 77*
*w/Nanobots 10, Rip It Up 20
E Songbird 67*
w/Protected 8
E Jolt 46
Thunderbolts x5 = 40
Total: 400pts

500 -
Av SR Hawkeye 56
HoT Moonstone 76
E MACH-III 77*
*w/Nanobots 10, Rip It Up 20
E Songbird 67*
w/Force Field 10
E Jolt 46
U Charcoal 90
Thunderbolts x6 = 48
Total: 500pts

600 -
Av SR Hawkeye 56
w/Flashbang 3
HoT Moonstone 76
w/Protected 8
E MACH-III 77
HOT V Songbird 83
E Jolt 46
E Atlas 107
U Charcoal 90
Thunderbolts x7 = 54
Total: 600pts

V FF Hawkeye 84
HoT Moonstone 76
E MACH-III 77
V Songbird 79
R Jolt 32
E Atlas 107
U Charcoal 90
Thunderbolts x7 = 54
Total: 599pts

Shield001
11/10/2010, 02:39
I loves me some T-Bolts.

I agree about using Cit-v instead of swordsman. I would love to see a strucker swordsman. However until that happens cit v is the best option.

I would use the E songbird over the R. That RS makes her awesomes. I even like the more then the new one.

And bullseye I can't think of a t-bolts team without him now :laugh: that said the V sinister one is really good even more so now that he can use the ata.

I am looking forward to getting some dark reign and heroic age t-bolts. Ant-man, new Jug, ghost, Mach 4, luke cage,
, mister x, headsman ( think those are the correct names of the last 2 )