legion in 75th? [Archive] - HeroClix Realms

grendal1

11/16/2010, 04:39

What Legion of Superheroes can we expect in 75th? What legion do think needs to be in the set?

michiganj24

11/16/2010, 04:45

As to expecting could be anyone although my money is on Starman (JSA version) and thats all. But I really want an Infectious Lass

tidge

11/16/2010, 06:35

Rather than retype my thoughts, feel free to look here (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290942).

The Legion is IMO the longest/largest part of DC's 75th year history that is most sorely neglected.

I don't fault WK for making hero versions from 3 or 4 *different* Legions (pre-Crisis, Archie, TV series, WKRP), but when it's not trivial to make comic accurate lineups of 5-ish character from a roster of 30+ members for a comic team that has been around for almost 50-years... something isn't right.

docsweeney

11/16/2010, 06:41

Should make Ferro Lad and Sun Boy at the very least. Waayy to many Rainbow Lanterns being made vs. a much more enduring historical set like LoSH.

Superman Green

11/16/2010, 06:41

Sun Boy, Blok, and Invisible Kid (both of them!) have never been Clixed, and would be good to have. So would remakes of Mon-El, Brainiac 5, Wildfire, and Colossal Boy, in their classic costumes.

Truthfully, the Legion is such a significant part of DC history, it's hard to imagine that we won't see at least one or two of them in 75th..

M.Drake

11/16/2010, 06:56

I havent read much of the legion outside of event-comics but I wouldnt mind getting

Xs
Lightning Lass
Gates
Rond Vindar
Inferno
and a brainiac 5 remake

Ignatz_Mouse

11/16/2010, 07:03

With an emphasis on "historical" events like the Breaking the Bat and Death of Superman, perhaps they could include Ferro Lad, as one of the first superheroes to actually die in a comic?

Grumpygoat

11/16/2010, 07:51

I don't fault WK for making hero versions from 3 or 4 *different* Legions (pre-Crisis, Archie, TV series, WKRP), but when it's not trivial to make comic accurate lineups of 5-ish character from a roster of 30+ members for a comic team that has been around for almost 50-years... something isn't right.

Wait, what? Something isn't right because Wizkids hasn't done something that's not trivial? In other words, something that's difficult?

The Legion's problem is that it's a comic book that's mostly removed from the rest of the DCU and it has a massive cast of characters. People were still clamoring for more of them after the Legion starter came out. Any team that can spit out 10 members in the span of a couple of months and still get complaints about the available roster has problems. None of those problems are Wizkids. Between the Legion starter and Arkham Asylum, 14 Legionnaires were available, discounting bystanders. With the Legion starter rotated out, that leaves only 6 available figures. That sucks, I know, but the team generally receives about as much love as it warrants - it receives a regular infusion of characters, with the exception of the Brave and the Bold. Sure, only one team member was made in Arkham Asylum...but that set also included 3 of the team's villains.

2 slots in Justice League isn't a whole lot, but it followed immediately on the heels of the Legion starter and its 8 figures. Then we have 3 team members in Crisis and 4 Legion-related characters in Arkham Asylum.

The team receives a regular amount of love. The problem is that it's just so damned removed from the rest of the DCU and has so many characters kicking about its roster. The team may be due for another influx of characters, but it has received a steady stream of new figures for the most part.

Hatut Zeraze

11/16/2010, 09:32

With a cast as big as theirs, they really, really ought to go back to having two pieces per set so there are always at least a reasonable group of them still playable Modern Age.

Even better, though, I'd like to see the Legion either be the major theme or at least a larger sub-theme of the next DC set after DC75. If it is one of a couple major themes, they could still have around 20 pieces devoted to the LSH.

I could easily imagine a Superman/Legion set, with 20 Superman characters, 20 Legion characters, and 20 leftover for popularity contest winners (i.e. rainbow lanterns), and other miscellaneous characters.

SimonMoon5

11/16/2010, 09:38

What Legion of Superheroes can we expect in 75th? What legion do think needs to be in the set?

We can expect all the members of the LSH, since they were all part of DC's 75 years of existence. After all, that's the same excuse given for why the set is 90% modern stuff (modern stuff is part of the 75 years of DC).

But given the short shrift they've gotten lately and the bizarre (meaning not what I would do) choices for B&B, I might expect Starman/Starboy and then nobody else. Actually, being cynical, I would expect no LSH members at all.

If it were up to me, I would at least include Brainiac 5 as well.

And then if I had more freedom of choice, I'd choose to also add Sun Boy, Princess Projectra, and Sensor Girl (in her 80s costume not her current one, yuck!). I think 5 members would be sufficient.

As a team that was once one of DC's best-selling comics and totally tied to the DCU through Superman/Superboy, they certainly deserve more recognition than they are currently getting in Heroclix.

Blue Atoll

11/16/2010, 09:53

It would be a nice gesture to see the original three (Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad) in their original costumes in this set.

If we can't get those three, then how about:

Ferro Lad
Computo
Quislet
Tellus
Bloc

SimonMoon5

11/16/2010, 09:54

Between the Legion starter and Arkham Asylum, 14 Legionnaires were available, discounting bystanders. With the Legion starter rotated out, that leaves only 6 available figures. That sucks, I know, but the team generally receives about as much love as it warrants -

It warrants as much love as any other major superhero group. If the X-Men only had 6 members in Modern Age, I'm sure that there would be complaints. You may think it unfair to compare LSH to X-Men, but LSH outsold X-Men for a while. And if you don't want to compare them to X-Men, then compare them to Avengers or Justice League or any other major superhero group. Heck, compare them to Titans (that might be an apt comparison since they both recently had cartoons).

By keyword, there are 26 Titans in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 20 X-Men in Modern Age (and they're getting a set based around them).
By keyword, there are 45 Avengers in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 7 Dark Avengers in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 11 Defenders in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 19 Fantastic Four members in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 14 JLA members, 10 Justice League members, 5 Justice League Europe members, 8 JLI members, and 22 JLoA members in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 8 New Warriors in Modern Age.

Heck, the Champions get almost as much as love as the LSH (there are 3 members in Modern Age) and they haven't been published for years and were never as popular as the LSH. The same is true for the Freedom Fighters. The Great Ten is in a similar position, with 4 members.

The LSH definitely belongs in the former group of heroes (Titans, X-Men, Avengers, FF, JL/JLA/JLoA) rather than the second group (Champions, Freedom Fighters, Great Ten) since they are a continuously published (in one form or another), continually popular group of superheroes. It's an insult to LSH fans for the LSH to be treated as only as important as the Champions or Freedom Fighters. (Not that I have anything against the Champions or Freedom Fighters.)

CuriousLurker

11/16/2010, 10:03

It warrants as much love as any other major superhero group. If the X-Men only had 6 members in Modern Age, I'm sure that there would be complaints. You may think it unfair to compare LSH to X-Men, but LSH outsold X-Men for a while. And if you don't want to compare them to X-Men, then compare them to Avengers or Justice League or any other major superhero group. Heck, compare them to Titans (that might be an apt comparison since they both recently had cartoons).

By keyword, there are 26 Titans in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 20 X-Men in Modern Age (and they're getting a set based around them).
By keyword, there are 45 Avengers in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 7 Dark Avengers in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 11 Defenders in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 19 Fantastic Four members in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 14 JLA members, 10 Justice League members, 5 Justice League Europe members, 8 JLI members, and 22 JLoA members in Modern Age.
By keyword, there are 8 New Warriors in Modern Age.

Heck, the Champions get almost as much as love as the LSH (there are 3 members in Modern Age) and they haven't been published for years and were never as popular as the LSH. The same is true for the Freedom Fighters. The Great Ten is in a similar position, with 4 members.

The LSH definitely belongs in the former group of heroes (Titans, X-Men, Avengers, FF, JL/JLA/JLoA) rather than the second group (Champions, Freedom Fighters, Great Ten) since they are a continuously published (in one form or another), continually popular group of superheroes. It's an insult to LSH fans for the LSH to be treated as only as important as the Champions or Freedom Fighters. (Not that I have anything against the Champions or Freedom Fighters.)

Well said and repped!

clixhunter

11/16/2010, 10:11

lets face it, we need a Legion based set...

with all the tie-ins they've had, it would be easy to have other figures.

ATrainWreck

11/16/2010, 11:17

How about the next DC set or two down the road we get a 60 figure Set simply called "The Legion of Superheroes". :eek: And since all sets are never one total we could get so many good and need pieces that might never be made otherwise.

We got Avengers, Justice League, good teams, bad teams, Lanterns(Coming Soon), New teams, Origin teams, Watchmen, now it's time for The Legion to have it's day SO many need to be in Modern age that it makes sense.

:cool:

clixhunter

11/16/2010, 11:48

here's an example of a set I thought would be good...

note powers listed are just for an idea as to what kind of power set the character would have.

Legion Forever!

Commons
1. R Durlan Spy <Minion 1> (No Team)
---stealth/shapechange--Ground
2. R Science Police Patrolman <Minion 2> (PD)
---ESD/incap---ground
3. R Khund Soldier <Minion 3> (No team)
---toughness/cce---ground
4. R Dark Circle Operative <Minion 4> (No Team)
---stealth/rce---ground
5. V Vril Dox II (Suicide Squad)
---leadership/outwit/enhancement---ground
6. V Grimbor The Chainsman (No Team)
---charge/incap/ew---ground
7. V Booster Gold & Skeets {duo-fig} (Hypertime)
---phase/esd/pc/super strength/perplex---flier
8. U Rip Hunter {In Time Bubble Trait that allows to carry maybe 4 like GLC, but can be fliers too} (Hypertime)
---phase/toughness/PC/outwit---ground
9. V Chronos (IL)
---phase/pc/incap---ground
10. U Lobo {sculpt standing holding chain}(No Team)
---charge/Impervious/BCF/Regen---ground
11. U Adam Strange (No Team)
---RS/RCE/ESD---flier
12. R Titania (Calculator)
---charge/super strength/Invulnerability---ground
13. R Silver Slasher (Calculator)
---flurry/bcf---ground
14. V Saturn Girl (LSH)
---MC/Incap/Perplex---flier
15. V Lightning Lad (LSH)
---RS/ESD/RCE---flier
16. V Cosmic Boy (LSH)
---TK/ESD/leadership---flier

Uncommons
17. E Durlan Spymaster <Minion 1> (No Team)
---stealth/bcf/regen---ground
18. E Science Police Sergeant <Minion 2> (PD)
---Leadership/ESD/EE---ground
19. E Khund Officer <Minion 3> (No Team)
---charge/BCF/Tougness---ground
20. E Dark Circle Commander <Minion 4> (No Team)
---stealth/PB/mastermind---ground
21. E Lyrissa Mallor (Suicide Squad)
---Stealth/Smoke Cloud/Barrier---ground
22. E Flash {Barry Allen} (JLA)
---HSS/Super Senses/Outwit---ground
23. E Professor Zoom (IL)
---HSS/Super Senses/Perplex/PC---ground
24. U Capt Comet (Suicide Squad)
---MC/Incap/PB/Defend/WP/PC---Flier
25. R Lazon (Calculator)
---RS/Phase/PB/Super Senses/shapechange---flier
26. E Superboy (Superman)
---charge/super strength/Invulnerability---flier
27. E Sunboy (LSH)
---RS/EE/PW/Barrier---flier
28. E Brainiac-5 (LSH)
---Invulnerability/WP/Outwit/PC---flier
29. E Ferro Lad (LSH)
---Earthbound when gets Impervious/Quake/Impervious/Toughness---flier
30. E Phantom Girl (LSH)
---trait for phase/Stealth/Defend/perplex---flier
31. E Chameleon Boy (LSH)
---LC/Plas/Stealth/BCF/Poison/Super senses/Toughness/Regen/shape change---flier
32. E Colossal Boy {Giant}(LSH)
Earthbound on first and last click, maybe middle/charge/plas/quake/Incap/Toughness/barrier/CCE---flier

Rares
33. V The Durlan (Suicide Squad
---stealth/plas/Steal Energy/Poison/WP/Regen/Outwit/Shapechange---ground
34. U Gigi Cusimano <Minion 2> (PD)
---RS/Incap/PB/ESD---ground
35. V Blood Claw {Khund}<Minion Leader 3> (No Team)
---Charge/BCF/Invulnerability---ground
36. U The Dark Man (Minion Leader 3 or 4)
---stealth/MC/Incap/PB/ESD/Mastermind/Enhancement/Leadership/Outwit---ground
37. E Stealth (Suicide Squad)
---Stealth/LC/Super Senses/CR---ground
38. R Strata (Suicide Squad)
---Charge/Quake/Impervious---ground
39. U Nemesis Kid (Trait- use Outsiders TA/no team)
---HSS/Charge/Flurry/Super Strength/PB/Impervious/Regen/Outwit/PC---flier
40. U Composite Superman (Superman/Batman Team Abilities)
---Charge/RS/EE/Super Strength/Incap/Invulnerability/WP/BF/outwit---flier
41. R Mist Master (Calculator)
---phase/smoke cloud/posion/impervious/shape change---ground
43. R Neutrax (Calculator)
---force blast/PW/Incap/PB/Super Senses/EW---flier
44. U R.J.Brande (No Team) <Minion Leader either 1 or 2 not both>
---LC/Smoke Cloud/WP/Regen/CR/Enhancement/PC/Perplex---ground
45. R Tellus (LSH)
---Incap/TK/Defend---flier
46. R Polar Boy (LSH)
---Force Blast/Incap/Pulse Wave/Barrier/Leadership---flier
47. R Invisible Kid <Jacques Foccart> (LSH)
---Stealth/Super Senses/CR/PC/Perplex---flier
48. V Starboy (JSA)
---Force Blast/Quake/Incap/ESD/EW---flier

Super Rares
49. R Von Daggle (Green Lantern Corps)
---RS/PB/TK/Barrier/Defend/EW/Outwit---flier
50. U Shvaughn Erin <Minion 2> (PD)
---RS/Incap/ESD/RCE---ground
51. U Firefist {Khund}<Minion Leader 3> (No Team)
---RS/EE/Toughness/RCE---ground
52. U Dr. Gym'll (PD- Support)
---Incap (close combat only- no range)/Poison/Regen/Support---ground
53. R Garryn Bek with Emerald Eye (Suicide Squad)
---LC/Force Blast/EE/TK/ESD/Barrier/Perplex---ground
54. U Pulsar Stargrave <Minion Leader 3 & 4>
---phase/RS/PW/PB/Steal Energy/ESD/Invulnerability/Mastermind/RCE/EW---flier
55. R Blok (Calculator)
---Super Strength/Impervious/Regen/---flier (sculpt should have 5 rings on one hand ;) )
56. R Rond Vidar (Green Lantern Corps)
---Force Blast/RS/Incap/TK/Super Senses/PC/Perplex---Earthbound at first...flier
57. R Elastic Lad (no team ability)
---LC/Flurry/Plas/Incap/ESD/CR/shapechange---ground
59. R Reflecto (no team ability)
---RS/PW/Incap/Impervious/RCE---flier
60. R Impulse <Kent Shakespeare> (LSH)
---charge/HSS/Super Strength/Invulnerability/Shape change/---ground

Brick SR
61. R Supergirl (LSH)
---charge/super strength/quake/Impervious---flier

Chase Figs/Prize Support
62. U Dark Big Barda <transporter> (Power Cosmic)
---phase/charge/EE/Toughness/CCE---ground
63. U Dark Metron (Power Cosmic)
---RS/Incap/Super Senses/Outwit---flier
64. U Dark Orion (Power Cosmic)
---RS/PB/Invulnerbaility/EW---flier
65. U Dark Superman (Power Cosmic)
---HSS/Super Strength/Impervious/CCE---flier
66. U Darkseid (Power Cosmic)
---phase/PB/TK/Impervious/PC/Outwit---ground

67. U Mordru (Big Fig like Galactusl-Mystic)
----Phase/Force Blast/PW/Quake/Incap/PB/Super Senses/Barrier/RCE/shape change/Outwit

ATA- Suicide Squad----L.E.G.I.O.N.: See Shield

colors = same sculpt/different colors and powers

what do you think?

PlotDeviceLad

11/16/2010, 12:27

Superman Green

11/16/2010, 12:55

Clixhunter's set sounds really good. But is it possible to suggest adding a colossal figure of Computo killing (one-third of) Triplicate Girl without sounding morbid? That WAS a pretty significant point in the Legion's history.

invisibo

11/16/2010, 15:09

I imagine whenever they get around to doing a Superman set, the Legion would hopefully have a major number of figs in that set.

Grumpygoat

11/16/2010, 17:16

We can expect all the members of the LSH, since they were all part of DC's 75 years of existence. After all, that's the same excuse given for why the set is 90% modern stuff (modern stuff is part of the 75 years of DC).

Your opinion on what a 75th anniversary set should contain is skewed, to say the least. Marginalizing 25 years of comics is not reasonable. Believing that the representatives of the first 50 years should be made up of characters who no longer have much of a comic presence is not reasonable.

Meanwhile, we don't know anywhere near 90% of the set yet. And of the figures we do know, over half are pre-1985 characters, depending on how you want to define things. Only a particularly absurd requirement on what qualifies as pre-1985 representatives could find only 10% qualifying.

EDIT: Note, this is only including the main set, not with chases or the like. Even including them, though, the percentage hardly balloons to 90% Modern Age (which, again, if it encompasses 1/3 of the company's existence...)

It warrants as much love as any other major superhero group. If the X-Men only had 6 members in Modern Age, I'm sure that there would be complaints. You may think it unfair to compare LSH to X-Men, but LSH outsold X-Men for a while. And if you don't want to compare them to X-Men, then compare them to Avengers or Justice League or any other major superhero group. Heck, compare them to Titans (that might be an apt comparison since they both recently had cartoons).

No, the Legion doesn't. Outsold in the past is not outsold now. More to the point, there is very little crossover between the Legion and the rest of the DCU. Meanwhile, there's plenty of crossover between all the other major teams. Most of the highly represented teams also have characters who represent multiple teams. It's a lot easier to fill out the JLA and Outsiders roster when one character - Batman - is a member of both. The same with the Teen Titans and Outsiders for Nightwing. Spider-Man is both keyworded for the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. The same with Black Panther. Namor is an Avenger and a Defender.

All 3 of the Modern Day Champions are keyworded to other teams; two of them to the Avengers, one of them to the Defenders.

Furthermore, even if the Legion is as popular as, say, the JLA, none of the individual members are as popular as Batman, Superman, the Flash, or most of the other individuals that typically fill the roster. Individually, there are no popular Legionnaires, whereas there are popular member of the JLA, Titans, Avengers, X-Men, etc, who exist outside the pages of their team's book.

Your criticism doesn't hold up. Individually they're not as popular as the individuals who fill the rosters of other teams and furthermore, the Legion has none of the crossover that happens with other teams. Why do we have so many members of the Defenders? Because a good chunk of them are also Avengers. Why so many Outsiders? Because a good chunk are also members of the JLA or Titans.

If you want a fair comparison, cut out all the characters who are keyworded to multiple teams. I guarantee that the list of characters filling each team's roster will dramatically decrease. Every team except for the Legion.

The Legion has way too many members. It has very minimal connection to the rest of the DCU. It still receives about 2-3 figures per set. Popular in the past means very little now, and it should mean very little now.

Top10

11/16/2010, 17:32

I'd love to see some new figures like Sun Boy and Sensor girl. But I would really would like remakes of Brainiac 5 and Chameleon.

Wolfeyes

11/16/2010, 17:36

I would absolutely love a Legion of Super-heroes Set

CFGuy

11/16/2010, 18:04

I would even be willing to buy a Legion set that was released like they did with the Watchmen set.

happyoptimistic88

11/16/2010, 18:15

What Legion of Superheroes can we expect in 75th? What legion do think needs to be in the set?

I would say Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Bouncing Boy, Brainiac 5, and Young Superman (all need a remake)!!!

tidge

11/16/2010, 18:56

I don't fault WK for making hero versions from 3 or 4 *different* Legions (pre-Crisis, Archie, TV series, WKRP), but when it's not trivial to make comic accurate lineups of 5-ish character from a roster of 30+ members for a comic team that has been around for almost 50-years... something isn't right.

Wait, what? Something isn't right because Wizkids hasn't done something that's not trivial? In other words, something that's difficult?

Allow me to be more direct: It's damn near impossible to make comic-accurate LSH lineups based on what LSH characters have been released...even if you simply go with the character with a given name and ignore which 'continuity' they are from.

Flipping through a nearby copy of the LSH Archives: It's possible to make the earliest "First 3 + Superboy/Supergirl" lineups (ignoring Lana Lang an other civilians), but after that Starboy and Sun Boy are introduced, and Sun Boy was a major player on just about every team up through Crisis.

I reread all twelve of the LSH archives with my son, and trust me...there are very few comic lineups that can be made. Here are some LSH lineups I'd like to "officially" play, and the characters missing:

The Original Sun-Eater/Fatal Five team: Missing Sun Boy, Ferro Lad, Princess Projectra

Great Darkness Saga: White Witch, Invisible Kid, Light Lass

The Legion of Substitute Heroes: Missing big names like Star Boy, Polar Boy, Night Girl, not to mention every one of the original subs.

Superboy Revenge Squad: Rond Vidar

Espionage Squad: Invisible Kid (from Silver Age)...the Modern "Action Comics" squad is missing at least Tellus and Quislet....The other half of that time-travel team is missing at least Light Lass. The previous "Lightning Saga" team is missing Starman and Sensor Girl.

The Legion is in essentially the same boat that Suicide Squad was in prior to the Arkham Asylum: Without a few key figures (Nightshade, Count Vertigo) it is essentially impossible to make a any team of characters from most of the comics featuring that team.

Hatut Zeraze

11/16/2010, 20:38

Fredwood

11/17/2010, 07:41

I'm hoping for Brainiac 5. Also, although he isn't a member of the Legion he just stole their ring I'd like to get a modern age legal Booster Gold solo fig.

But they totally need a Sun Boy and Thom.

anonym0use

11/17/2010, 08:29

I'll say it again -

Brainiac-5 & Vril Dox II would be an easy repainted sculpt in the same set.

Long Live Legion.

I'd also call a Legion-based set something like "Great Darkness Saga," so we could also get a Darkseid, possibly other New Gods, etc.

I love this idea. Unfortunately this keeps happening to me.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PlotDeviceLad again.

anonym0use

11/17/2010, 08:31

As soon as I get a Vibe, I'm changing over to campaign for Legion Subs!

clixhunter

11/17/2010, 20:41

Anyone remember B.I.O.N.? He was the Dominator robot that had the powers of the entire Legion of Super-Heroes. He was from Giffen's 5 years later Legion and I liked him a lot more than the Composite Superman. He had a white suit with a planet Earth emblem on his chest.

I vaguely remember him. I chose Composite Superman, because more name recognition..and an easier dial to do...as opposed to a swiss army knife dial.

and as for the arguement that The Legion should not get it's own set, because of being a niche book, or not having the big headliners, or not selling as much.

I have these three primary reasons why that arguement, which does have a basis in fact, does not really stand the test of whether its market-able, or whether it might be a good idea.

1) The Legion has one of the strongest fan bases of any comic out there, Id wager that they have almost as strong a fan base as Star Trek. Many times they were close to being cancelled and weren't...

unlike some others..such as Hawkman, Outsiders, Freedom Fighters, et al

This means AS A TEAM, they are very very much liked..and as such, have a strong basis for market-ability

2) The Legion has been interwoven into pretty much every EVENT, in the DC Milieu, and as such has a lot of recognition. People aren't going to say...The Legion of Super Heroe's? whos that? (there is a reason they were the choice for Good Guy Wild Card in DC..they've worked with EVERYONE)

3) The choice shouldn't be, 'do they as a team deserve it or not', but rather...can a good set that people will have fun playing, be designed from them...and Id say yes...see the set I designed, though after reading Tidge's post..Id probably swap a couple of Legionaires so full comic correct teams can be designed.

my 2 cents

Grumpygoat

11/17/2010, 21:41

and as for the arguement that The Legion should not get it's own set, because of being a niche book, or not having the big headliners, or not selling as much.

I have these three primary reasons why that arguement, which does have a basis in fact, does not really stand the test of whether its market-able, or whether it might be a good idea.

Did someone say they shouldn't get their own set? I know I didn't. I just said that they've received a regular amount of love in most sets and have received about as much love as they deserve. That said...

1) The Legion has one of the strongest fan bases of any comic out there, Id wager that they have almost as strong a fan base as Star Trek. Many times they were close to being cancelled and weren't...

unlike some others..such as Hawkman, Outsiders, Freedom Fighters, et al

This means AS A TEAM, they are very very much liked..and as such, have a strong basis for market-ability

They do not have anywhere near as strong a fan base as Star Trek. That's Batman levels of fan base. And if they were very much liked, they wouldn't have come close to cancellation. Besides which, it's not a matter of the quality of the fan, but the quantity. For comics or Heroclix, it's all about pushing product.

2) The Legion has been interwoven into pretty much every EVENT, in the DC Milieu, and as such has a lot of recognition. People aren't going to say...The Legion of Super Heroe's? whos that? (there is a reason they were the choice for Good Guy Wild Card in DC..they've worked with EVERYONE)

They were the choice for good guy wild card in DC because the designers at the time were stupid and the appropriate DC wildcards - JLA - already had a team ability. The Legion doesn't work with "everyone." No more than any other superhero does. And with rare exceptions, you won't find a Legionnaire as a member of the Teen Titans, JLA, or JSA. They don't really crossover much with the rest of the DCU. Nor are they interwoven into "pretty much every event." They're notably absent from 52 and Infinite Crisis, while most of their activity during Final Crisis happens outside of the main book - and with Superman, the one guy in the DCU who really has any strong bonds with the team.

3) The choice shouldn't be, 'do they as a team deserve it or not', but rather...can a good set that people will have fun playing, be designed from them...and Id say yes...see the set I designed, though after reading Tidge's post..Id probably swap a couple of Legionaires so full comic correct teams can be designed.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to see the team. I'm merely detailing why they're not particularly represented in the DCU and explaining why they're not underrepresented, either. Even when there were 15 different characters (and over 15 figures) to chose from (at the release of Justice League, with the starter, and while Origin and Collateral Damage were still legal), people still complained that there weren't enough Legionnaires. And, no. There's just a ridiculously huge roster. Any time 15 characters isn't enough to represent a niche team with little crossover with the rest of the universe, there's a problem and it isn't with the amount of figures Wizkids is pumping out.

Wilx

11/17/2010, 21:48

I'm thinking it will be Ferro Lad, due to his death story line.
There are tons I would like to see though
Starman
Sunboy
Polar boy
Xs
Gates
New Brainiac 5
We need some more legion!

clixhunter

11/17/2010, 22:19

Did someone say they shouldn't get their own set? I know I didn't. I just said that they've received a regular amount of love in most sets and have received about as much love as they deserve. That said...

They do not have anywhere near as strong a fan base as Star Trek. That's Batman levels of fan base. And if they were very much liked, they wouldn't have come close to cancellation. Besides which, it's not a matter of the quality of the fan, but the quantity. For comics or Heroclix, it's all about pushing product.

They were the choice for good guy wild card in DC because the designers at the time were stupid and the appropriate DC wildcards - JLA - already had a team ability. The Legion doesn't work with "everyone." No more than any other superhero does. And with rare exceptions, you won't find a Legionnaire as a member of the Teen Titans, JLA, or JSA. They don't really crossover much with the rest of the DCU. Nor are they interwoven into "pretty much every event." They're notably absent from 52 and Infinite Crisis, while most of their activity during Final Crisis happens outside of the main book - and with Superman, the one guy in the DCU who really has any strong bonds with the team.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to see the team. I'm merely detailing why they're not particularly represented in the DCU and explaining why they're not underrepresented, either. Even when there were 15 different characters (and over 15 figures) to chose from (at the release of Justice League, with the starter, and while Origin and Collateral Damage were still legal), people still complained that there weren't enough Legionnaires. And, no. There's just a ridiculously huge roster. Any time 15 characters isn't enough to represent a niche team with little crossover with the rest of the universe, there's a problem and it isn't with the amount of figures Wizkids is pumping out.

I realize you didnt say they shouldnt get a set. You were implying they shouldnt, and legion fans should be satisfied with what there is....which is fair comment if you arent a Legion Fan.

But, a Legion fan has as much right in thinking there isnt enough Legionaires/Legion Villains, as a non-legion fan has of thinking the other way.

I concede that Batman has a stronger fanbase, (though id bet his fan base is actually stronger than Star Treks---his is on par with Star Wars' fanbase.) But we are quibbling. The fact is The Legion does have a strong fanbase. Thas all Im saying. It wouldnt be a marketting mistake

*chuckle* by the way I agree with you it was a mistake to give them the wildcard, not that I agree with you it should've been the JLA who got it.

I think giving the JLA the free move was more to match them with their Marvel counterpart who got the same thing.

The mistake wasnt because they havent worked with everyone (and I bet I can find enough proof they have if I wanted to spend the time doing so)...We both are LONG TIME comic fans grumpy goat, Ive been reading the Legion since they started.....The only two characters in the DC universe who've worked with more than the Legion has are Superman and Batman

Now Im not saying the entire Legion, that would be ludicrous, but theres not a single DC hero that hasn't interacted with a Legionnaire ;)...remember several have been stranded in the 20th century from time to time. Really they kinda are Like Marvels X-Men (though many would say The Titans...but not really. I could draw a better parrallel for the X-Men/Legion and The Titans-Young Justice/Young Avengers

Im not disagreeing that It would be night unto impossible to get EVERY Legionnaire made and legal at the same time...but hey we can hope.

Please note- I am not one of the complainers that wizkids isnt doing a fine job. Im more of a half full cup kinda guy. Im thankful for what we have, but I do think a legion set would be a viable choice...as much so as a Thor set was Id put forth.:classic:

tidge

11/17/2010, 22:37

I used to think that the only drawback to a LSH-themed set would be their. general lack of A-list villains. Sure we LSH fans can name scores of LSH foes, but the prominent ones have been made:

Fatal Five (probably the most-likely to be named foes of the Legion)

Legion of Super-Villains (we got the "big three", and likely only because of their appearance in the Superman/Batman arc)

Time Trapper

And we've got the (more-or-less) "one-off" LSH foes: Darkseid, Lobo, Superman Prime...and don't get me started on Mordru.

The Legion has had a series of cool villains (B.I.O.N. is a great mention!) but even characters like COMPUTO, Starfinger, Evillo, et al. are more likely to get "huh wha?" reactions from most comics readers....and it isn't like "The Sun Eater" is going to be a really playable dial.

It's a somewhat unfortunate tradition that for much of the Legion's run the "villain" usually turned out to be one of their own...or one of their parents...or some space pirate with a weird gun...or some faceless political structure...or John Dillinger...well, you get the picture.

With that being said, I'd *love* to be able to play a greater variety of Legion teams in Heroclix, if for no other reason than a majority of teams I've faced in almost a decade of clix play have been teams that had about as much comic accuracy and cogency as a group of misfit Silver Age comic villains and I'd like to see the LSH kick those butts!

clixhunter

11/17/2010, 22:49

----
With that being said, I'd *love* to be able to play a greater variety of Legion teams in Heroclix, if for no other reason than a majority of teams I've faced in almost a decade of clix play have been teams that had about as much comic accuracy and cogency as a group of misfit Silver Age comic villains and I'd like to see the LSH kick those butts!

and that is precisely why a set should be made.

If folks can field a team with Manticore or Positron from COH and have fun...

then why not have Grimbor the Chainsman or Pulsar Stargrave?

Its all about the sculpt and power set.

Ive never read a single book that had Anti-Venom in it..lol but I dont begrudge him being made
:laugh:

theanalogkid

11/17/2010, 23:01

SimonMoon5

11/17/2010, 23:12

They do not have anywhere near as strong a fan base as Star Trek. That's Batman levels of fan base. And if they were very much liked, they wouldn't have come close to cancellation.

Let's continue this reasoning. Batman came close to cancellation once. Therefore he doesn't have much of a fanbase. Batman does not have Batman levels of fan base.

See your logical fallacies?

Suttkus

11/18/2010, 16:19

The Legion has had a series of cool villains (B.I.O.N. is a great mention!) but even characters like COMPUTO, Starfinger, Evillo, et al. are more likely to get "huh wha?" reactions from most comics readers....and it isn't like "The Sun Eater" is going to be a really playable dial.

But wouldn't it make a cool Colossal? : - )

Personally, I won't rest until we get a Universo. The man mind-controls entire planets! Just give him built in Mental Shields as a trait, Mind Control across his entire dial, and :bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt: :bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt::bolt:. That should do it! : - )

It's a somewhat unfortunate tradition that for much of the Legion's run the "villain" usually turned out to be one of their own...or one of their parents...or some space pirate with a weird gun...or some faceless political structure...or John Dillinger...well, you get the picture.

What I loved about that issue was the casual suggestion that John Dillinger was on the same league of evil as Adolph Hitler. I mean, really, you grab the three most evil people in history, and you include John Dillinger?! Sure, I wouldn't call him a nice guy, but The Three Most Evil People In All Of History shouldn't include John Dillinger.

I love the Silver Age.

***

If folks can field a team with Manticore or Positron from COH and have fun...

then why not have Grimbor the Chainsman or Pulsar Stargrave?

Because the game is aimed at people too young for Grimbor. Really, was there a more openly fetishistic super villain to come out of the seventies in a mainstream comic? His entire powerset is "finding ways to chain people in spandex into helplessness while wearing leather". Really, now.

***

Let's continue this reasoning. Batman came close to cancellation once. Therefore he doesn't have much of a fanbase. Batman does not have Batman levels of fan base.

See your logical fallacies?

Um, no. Batman was almost canceled once, 50 years ago. The Legion has repeatedly been close to cancellation recently (in addition to actually being canceled 40 years ago, of course). Your comparison is the one that's fallacious.

Thrumble Funk

11/18/2010, 16:24

I can't argue the rich history or lineage of the Legion, but I can say that a full Legion expansion would be an ENTIRELY secondary-market set for me. I'm just not interested.

Hatut Zeraze

11/18/2010, 17:23

Really, was there a more openly fetishistic super villain to come out of the seventies in a mainstream comic? His entire powerset is "finding ways to chain people in spandex into helplessness while wearing leather". Really, now.

We need a Grimbor/Flamingo duo fig! STAT!

clixhunter

11/18/2010, 18:38

I can't argue the rich history or lineage of the Legion, but I can say that a full Legion expansion would be an ENTIRELY secondary-market set for me. I'm just not interested.

yanno, thats been said before about other sets already, and they seemed to sell alright.

No set will appeal to everyone.

What happens though is twofold-

1) Since Heroclix is a game, people see the power sets of useful figures debut and who the figure is takes hindseat to what it can do.

2) As figures are debuted, excitement builds even with non-fans.

I daresay that though Composite Superman may not be a big draw, having a 200+ figure with the joint powers of Batman and Superman would be appealing.

and even if you're not a Legion Fan----bet you enjoy Saturn Girl or Cosmic Boys power sets

Thor has a very limited fan base, not being close to Spider-Man or Batman...yet his set did ok.

:cool:

clixhunter

11/18/2010, 18:43

Because the game is aimed at people too young for Grimbor. Really, was there a more openly fetishistic super villain to come out of the seventies in a mainstream comic? His entire powerset is "finding ways to chain people in spandex into helplessness while wearing leather". Really, now.

***

what no comment about the clearly 70'ish Bell Bottum wearing coluan that is Pulsar Stargrave? ;)

and well yeah that is kinda what Grimbor does...but I bet his power set could be very cool. a dial full of charge and RS, high av's, incap and outwit and a special power that is along the lines of 'if a figure is given a second token by grimbor, those tokens are not removed until a friendly character occupies an adjacent space and is given a power action to remove the 'chains' ' ;)

:grin:

Suttkus

11/18/2010, 21:14

what no comment about the clearly 70'ish Bell Bottum wearing coluan that is Pulsar Stargrave? ;)

Well, he would actually make a good figure. I'd love a Stargrave piece!

and well yeah that is kinda what Grimbor does...but I bet his power set could be very cool. a dial full of charge and RS, high av's, incap and outwit and a special power that is along the lines of 'if a figure is given a second token by grimbor, those tokens are not removed until a friendly character occupies an adjacent space and is given a power action to remove the 'chains' ' ;)

:grin:

That's a good special power! I don't know that I'd give him a lot of charge. Given his tendency to set up traps, I'd be more likely to give him some variations on Arcades power to make objects or terrain features dangerous.

Grumpygoat

11/18/2010, 21:56

Just to address a few things I stirred up:

I'm not a big fan of the Legion, no, and I wouldn't buy a whole lot of a Legion-themed set. That said, I don't have a problem with Wizkids producing such a set. I haven't been arguing against such a set here insomuch as explaining the various problems in producing Legion figures for Heroclix and why the current state of the Legion in Heroclix really isn't Wizkids fault. Simply put, they're a niche team with a huge roster that is splintered even more by numerous reboots. They have little tie-ins to the rest of the DCU. These are all problems with the team, these will continue to be problems with the team, and it's not really Wizkids fault. The team is about as fairly represented as can be expected for a group that is only slightly more tied into the DCU than the Ultimates universe figures are with the rest of the Marvel universe.

In comics? You might have a point. But here you are clearly in the minority.

I'm the minority in this thread. I highly doubt I'm the minority among Heroclix buyers. And, again - I'm mostly explaining the problems with producing the Legion in Heroclix.

Cyaegha

11/19/2010, 08:38

A real Brainiac 5. With a 12th level intelligence trait. But considering there wasn't any legionnaire in tBatB (why they didn't made a duo figure Duo Damsel is beyond me), I'm still hoping for a correction there...but fear it won't be the case...

michiganj24

11/19/2010, 08:44

Personally I think Legion would make a good secondary theme within a Superman set
Give us 15-20 Legion figs
Like New
White Witch
Infectious Lass
Starman
Polar Boy
Sun Boy
Invisible Kid

Remakes
Braniac 5
Cosmic Boy
Saturn Girl
Chameleon Boy

Villians
Universo
Dominator
Earth Man

Thrumble Funk

11/19/2010, 10:30

yanno, thats been said before about other sets already, and they seemed to sell alright.

No set will appeal to everyone.

What happens though is twofold-

1) Since Heroclix is a game, people see the power sets of useful figures debut and who the figure is takes hindseat to what it can do.

2) As figures are debuted, excitement builds even with non-fans.

I daresay that though Composite Superman may not be a big draw, having a 200+ figure with the joint powers of Batman and Superman would be appealing.

and even if you're not a Legion Fan----bet you enjoy Saturn Girl or Cosmic Boys power sets

Thor has a very limited fan base, not being close to Spider-Man or Batman...yet his set did ok.

:cool:

Now a Composite Superman? THAT I'd be into. Too quirky not to love.

And I'm sure that the Legionnaires would have some great little power sets, but for me the characters are half the draw. As such, I'd probably just field characters I like who do the same/similar things.