What do you think of DC75 Superman (not JSA or White Lantern)

[Terman8er]

*Yes, I know...spelled "fence" wrong. I submit to public flogging tomorrow. :(

Here is his dial:


#032 V Superman
Team: Superman ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal10101741010174101118391017399163991638916389173810172810172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

There have been some on this board that have voiced their opinion on wanting a "cheap" or "economical" Superman. Well, here ya go. "Cheap" it is.

My opinion is that this isn't "Superman" it's some mockery of a flying brick named "Superman". I honestly thought that after seeing the B&tB Superman I couldn't be more disappointed. Oh how wrong I was.

Seriously? This is the best they could do? We actually have a Superman with 3 clicks of no damage reducers. Yeah, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can now hurt Superman on his last three clicks. :confused:

How about a printed two damage (with no super strength) on his last two clicks....*ZOMG!* Really? What is this Hypertime? We have a Superman that can't break through a wall folks!!!

And lastly lets not forget...at least he has the Superman TA.

Well, to those of you that wanted a "cheap" Superman....you got him!

[dengar69]

i voted garbage. Because it is. Also the sculpt sucks

[fastcat99]

Other (Allow me to explain.)


Yay! New Clix! :D

I like him. Charge in, he gets hit onto quake or flurry, hit again, lands on RS, break away RS, hit them, run some other folks around him and use defend. In theory, it looks fun! Now if I can just get my breakaway rolls.

For a little less, he does a lot of different things than R Icons supes. Good by me!

[TH0MAS5]

*

#032 V Superman
Team: Superman ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal10101741010174101118391017399163991638916389173810172810172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO



Yeah, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can now hurt Superman on his last three clicks. :confused:

We have a Superman that can't break through a wall folks!!!

!

Franklin can hurt him.




i voted garbage. Because it is. Also the sculpt sucks

Wow.

What did you expect for 173 points?

[tyroclix]

For me, this is the Superman he is replacing:

io046 R Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 197
Archenemy: Lex Luthor (Blue)
Keywords: Celebrity, Metropolis, Reporter
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst121117510101651010174991649915398174881638715387142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

There is give and take throughout but overall the new version has a more steady, better dial in my opinion.

He is also an upgrade from this dial:

ls007 R Young Superman
Team: Legion of Superheroes
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 100
Keywords: Legion of Super Heroes, Teen
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst121018410101841010173109173991738816388162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Both old dials still have a place but I do like the up close and personal version we have in the DC75. Superman hasn't had a version like that since:

cj096 U Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 223
Keywords: Apokolips, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst101216510111641011154910154910173991738916388163881527815277142KOKOKOKO

Is the new one perfect? No. But I like the option of not having to run HSS-Superman. I think the new one will prove quite playable...

[Terman8er]

What did you expect for 173 points?

Something a little better than this:

si045 U Namor
Team: Defenders
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 150
Keywords: All-Winners Squad, Atlantis, Avengers, Defenders, Illuminati, Invaders, Ruler
m-dolphina-fistd-shieldg-starburst101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Avenging Son: Namor can use Charge, Flurry, and the Flight ability.

(Defense) Atlantic Rejuvenation: If Namor occupies water terrain, he can use Regeneration.

(Damage) Undersea Ruler: Namor can use Leadership. He can use it normally, or on a result of 4-6 you can add two actions to your action total for the turn; both actions must be given to friendly character that possess the Atlantis keyword.

[tyroclix]

Something a little better than this:

si045 U Namor
Team: Defenders
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 150
Keywords: All-Winners Squad, Atlantis, Avengers, Defenders, Illuminati, Invaders, Ruler
m-dolphina-fistd-shieldg-starburst101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Avenging Son: Namor can use Charge, Flurry, and the Flight ability.

(Defense) Atlantic Rejuvenation: If Namor occupies water terrain, he can use Regeneration.

(Damage) Undersea Ruler: Namor can use Leadership. He can use it normally, or on a result of 4-6 you can add two actions to your action total for the turn; both actions must be given to friendly character that possess the Atlantis keyword.

To be fair, that is what everyone wants for all of their flying bricks. So buy a dozen and stick various sculpts on the dial. Throw a few onto Ms. Skrull-Vell while you are at it.

Then of course you would hear complaints about the lack of range and how he can't see through stealth and how he can't carry anyone even though he is Superman! Plus you know people would flip about the starting Leadership, too.

[robedestroyer]

Very disappointed. He's 1 point more than the new Wonder Woman and he doesn't hold a candle to her.

[No-Name]

Eh. How many different ways can you do Superman, anyway? I mean really. They've done Lazer Superman, they've done Evil Superman... how many Supermans can you have that offer something new and unique to the battlefield?

He flies, he has damage reducers, he hits hard, he has super strength. On paper, sure, this seems to be a fairly accurate representation of what Superman can do.

I just don't see the point in making another Superman that doesn't really offer anything new. Like the B&tB Batman. That was a Batman who did things differently from every other Batman ever made. He filled a different strategic role than Batman usually does.

I don't see that with this Superman. He's just a less expensive version of what Superman usually does.

[DrugSex]

i voted garbage. Because it is. Also the sculpt sucks

Can somebody post the pic plz?

[Terman8er]

To be fair, that is what everyone wants for all of their flying bricks. So buy a dozen and stick various sculpts on the dial. Throw a few onto Ms. Skrull-Vell while you are at it.

Then of course you would hear complaints about the lack of range and how he can't see through stealth and how he can't carry anyone even though he is Superman! Plus you know people would flip about the starting Leadership, too.

In all seriousness if you took that Namor's dial and added a 10 range, flight (dropping it from the special power), the Superman TA and gave him regular Leadership to start (and perhaps Toughness where Namor has water Regen) I think people would be over joyed.

[Terman8er]

Can somebody post the pic plz?

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/elioblacknight/019.jpg

[Darth Sabre]

You forgot..he has Battle Fury....:tired:

I like that he is economical and his numbers are good...for an Experienced version. But the things you mentioned and the Battle Fury put me off somewhat. Still as a Superman, he's a solid version.

[2 Gun Kid]

BATTLE FURY!?!?!? SUPERMAN!?!?!?!

SEriously POWER GIRL got Super Strength as a trait...why not Supes??

[Terman8er]

Just to show you what it would look like...I would prefer this dial to the one given.

#032 V Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Kryptonian Physiology: Superman may use Charge and Flurry.

[tyroclix]

In all seriousness if you took that Namor's dial and added a 10 range, flight (dropping it from the special power), the Superman TA and gave him regular Leadership to start (and perhaps Toughness where Namor has water Regen) I think people would be over joyed.

True. And if you took E-2 Superman's dial and priced it at 173 people would be orgasmic.

Someone was already complaining about Barry Allen not having a trait and he was concerned Barry wouldn't have the same dial as Nightcrawler.

Figures that aren't priced correctly are stand-out figures. Players than keep trotting them out as what every piece should be like. Ult Thor used to be the flag-bearer of the group.

Instead of cross-universe, different figure comparisons, compare him to other Supermans:

Here is the only other 173 Superman:

ht110 E Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 173
Archenemy: Doomsday (Blue)
Keywords: Metropolis
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst1010163101015389153891728817210816297162871527615264132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Here is someone close to 173:

cd069 V Superman
Team: Justice League
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 168
Keywords: JLA
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst12101741191631091538916210815198153981428713387132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Here is a version a ton of people loved:

cd222 U The Man of Steel
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 200
Keywords: Gotham City, JLA, Justice League, Metropolis
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst12111851012184101117410111759101749101639915389173108184128195KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Please note, no damage reducers on 4 of his clicks.

[Terman8er]

True. And if you took E-2 Superman's dial and priced it at 173 people would be orgasmic.

C'mon now...that's being silly. I took an example of someone that costs over 20 points less.

Please note, no damage reducers on 4 of his clicks.

And the one thing people always point out, if Man of Steel was used a standard, is that Man of Steel should have an SP combining Defend with Imp or Inv.

[MistahJustice]

Oh I thought you meant the Golden-Age one which is outstanding and what we should've had back in Origins.

As far as the Uncommon one...I like him. The sculpt isn't bad, it's just him and I like that. EVERY single other sculpt of him he's doing something and this one is just him being the cool mother****er he is. He's just like "Sup, I'm Superman". As far as the dial...He's way better than the last one. Sure I'd rather him be 200 points and a beat-stick but he's still a damn good piece for the points.

While his defensive abilities (or lack thereof) are somewhat disheartening it makes sense enough for me. Those last three clix Superman's like "OMG, I'm pretty messed up. But my friends are still in danger! I'll protect you!!"

Also, I want the Superman from the DC Universe Online trailer...the one holding nothing back with red eyes and the "I'll burn your face off!!"

Anyway...I'm happy with him. I'm happy with every single Superman in this set. That's why I want them all, so much so my tight hold on zombie Wolverine will be quickly loosened after that set releases.

But in all seriousness...I'm somewhat tired of all the "action" poses filling every set. I'm glad his sculpt is just a normal pose, I'd like to see more like it. Easier for them to sculpt it well.

And I'm not saying I dislike action poses, I love most of them (SR Batman for example) but I am saying I don't mind a normal pose every now and then.

[Havickzbeck]

Just to show you what it would look like...I would prefer this dial to the one given.

#032 V Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Kryptonian Physiology: Superman may use Charge and Flurry.

I can say that I would have preferred this dial as well.
Even without a click of Imp.
With a click if Imp its a perfect economic fig.
I'd dump the Leadership for the Imp as JLA teams never need it anyways with all those high pt figs.

In fact one of my biggest gripes in the last few years has been all the un-needed leadership on figs like Jay Garrick that make the figs cost more pts than they should.
Jay was never even a JSA chairman to my recollection.

Leadership should be almost entirely reserved for figs under 100 pts that are part of a group of similarly lower pt figs or the power is just a waste imo.

I voted "serves a purpose" in a moment of soft weakness, and wish I'd selected "garbage" instead...


Oh I thought you meant the Golden-Age one which is outstanding and what we should've had back in Origins.


The Origins Superman fig is great!
And in some ways superior to the new one!
The new Golden Age Superman doesn't have any Invun, nor does it have a single click of 18 defense while the old one has 2, as well as a 1st click of 4 damage.

[TheFreak]

well...my soldiers could be tougher...Wow, this makes the BatB one look ever better...the sculpt...dear lord the sculpt...

[anonym0use]

I think he's A good cheap "economical" Superman to fit better on my JLA teams!

However, I also think he's one too many Supermen for this set, and ate up a slot that could have gone to another figure.

[DrugSex]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/elioblacknight/019.jpg

Thanks & :eek:

[TH0MAS5]

Something a little better than this:

si045 U Namor
Team: Defenders
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 150
Keywords: All-Winners Squad, Atlantis, Avengers, Defenders, Illuminati, Invaders, Ruler
m-dolphina-fistd-shieldg-starburst101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Avenging Son: Namor can use Charge, Flurry, and the Flight ability.

(Defense) Atlantic Rejuvenation: If Namor occupies water terrain, he can use Regeneration.

(Damage) Undersea Ruler: Namor can use Leadership. He can use it normally, or on a result of 4-6 you can add two actions to your action total for the turn; both actions must be given to friendly character that possess the Atlantis keyword.

But you are comparing him to one of the best pieces in the game?

I guess if you give him S Ally that is about 10 points and his Range is about 8 points, Flight would be around 8 points.


I asked a friend if he liked one of the new figures and he said,
"he's no Bullseye."
I said you shouldn't use that as a comparison.

Kinda the same goes here.

The Supes here isn't all that powerful, but I like having a Supes
in this point range, and I will use him.

[Havickzbeck]

The Supes here isn't all that powerful, but I like having a Supes
in this point range, and I will use him.

I agree that a Superman in that pt range is needed, I'm just not that satisfied with what he ended up with.
I probably will use the fig though just to see how he works out on a JLA team.
Anybody else think they should have switched the JLA and the LSH TA's abilities other than me?

[badseed02]

maybe superboy will be better lets hope ....who approved that sculpt on superman????what were they smoking and did i read the powers right on his dial no special powers no hss are you kidding me a vet superman this peice is garbage so many more peices are better at that price range or cheaper..just my thoughts

[archmage78]

Just to show you what it would look like...I would prefer this dial to the one given.

#032 V Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101118410111839121739111839101838917389173810164811164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Kryptonian Physiology: Superman may use Charge and Flurry.

THis would be a 200 point version. I don't agree with the battle fury, but other then that it is a good sups. Sups is a bland character, he is basically a god, don't knock WizKids for not having anything else to do with it.

[DrugSex]

This Supes remind me Ultimate Iron Man, if he has the :d-indomitable: will be gross!

[Wade Wilson]

Rage of the Red Superman!


Though not really, he looks really depressed...what lantern corp is sadness?

[macewyndu]

Superboy looks like a teenage Gohan (Dragonball z)!

[Terman8er]

THis would be a 200 point version. I don't agree with the battle fury, but other then that it is a good sups. Sups is a bland character, he is basically a god, don't knock WizKids for not having anything else to do with it.

Apparently you don't realize that I took the 150 point Namor:

-dropped Flight from that Special Power of his (he had Flight on 6 of 9 clicks)
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

-dropped :m-dolphin: and added :m-wing:
Points wise: This would increase the point total a bit, but between the first change and this one that points would be roughly the same, 150

-added a 10 range
Points wise: According to the feat Ambidextrous this would cost roughly 20 points

-replaced Defenders with Superman Ally
Points wise: This would be a wash

-Dropped his special Leadership with regular Leadership
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

-Dropped his Aqua-Regen for Toughness.
Points wise: This would be a wash

-upped his points by 23

So...how did you come up with 200??

[Terman8er]

This...

#032 V Superman
Team: Superman ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal10101741010174101118391017399163991638916389173810172810172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This Supes remind me Ultimate Iron Man...

...reminds you of this...

av002 U Iron Man
Team: Ultimates
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 154
Keywords: Armor, Scientist, Ultimates
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst1210174101117310101639915399152881428813287122KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Damage) Full Power: When Iron Man is given a ranged combat action targeting a single character, roll one d6 if the attack succeeds. The result replaces Iron Man's damage value for the attack. After the attack is resolved, Iron Man is dealt 2 unavoidable damage.

??

Yeah, I guess I can see that. At least Iron Man has Super Strength on a couple of those 2:g-starburst: clicks (so he can break down a wall or two)...and a longer range and more move and attack abilities with a higher :m-wing: value to boot. Granted Superman's :a-fist: and :d-normal: is a little more consistent. All for 19 points less.

OK...I feel worse now. Thanks. :(

(Yes, I know Superman has two more clicks of life too.)

[happyoptimistic88]

i voted garbage. Because it is. Also the sculpt sucks

Yeah I agree, they just can't make a good definitive Superman anymore, not since Icons. We need a really good Superman to face DOOMSDAY! And I am not counting special Superman, i.e., like KC of Earth-2, or White Lantern (which isn't that good as well). No Superman in this set is really worth it that much. Yeah the Superman with the Eagle and the Golden Age Superman are good for the points, but still... And there are plenty of other figures that have similar dials and are better.

[DOOMSTRIKER]

i think the figure is rediculously ugly... or worse

the dial is SUPER boring, not a bad thing realy, BUT... this is a Vet. Supes?
a Veteran Superman? no, i think not, ever

[The Charlatan]

He's not awful for the points, but dunno when/if I'd use him over other versions of Superman.

[flatmatt]

The dial seems decent enough, but it certainly doesn't do anything to shout (or even say in an "indoor voice") "Superman." I'm not sure if it's just because of the other spoilers of characters like Ares who have something like 5 clicks of impervious followed by 5 clicks of invulnerability, but Superman needs a lot more damage reducers than he got to feel like Superman. This feels more like a version of the "Young Superman" we got in the LoSH starter. If it's really a veteran per the card, that's pretty ridiculous.

But mostly, I'm nominating this one for worst sculpt in HeroClix if no one else has done so already.

[DiscoHippo]

I vote garbage for the sculpt alone. in this set we have 2 supermen standing around. one has an eagle on his arm. this one is waiting for the bus.

honestly, this just may be the most boring sculpt heroclix has ever seen.

[The7ofDiamonds]

Apparently you don't realize that I took the 150 point Namor:

-dropped Flight from that Special Power of his (he had Flight on 6 of 9 clicks)
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

-dropped :m-dolphin: and added :m-wing:
Points wise: This would increase the point total a bit, but between the first change and this one that points would be roughly the same, 150

-added a 10 range
Points wise: According to the feat Ambidextrous this would cost roughly 20 points

-replaced Defenders with Superman Ally
Points wise: This would be a wash

-Dropped his special Leadership with regular Leadership
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

-Dropped his Aqua-Regen for Toughness.
Points wise: This would be a wash

-upped his points by 23

So...how did you come up with 200??

Duh, because Namor is undercosted and broken! ;)


I wink and use the exclamation point for sarcasm.... but I'm really just adding tone, it's 100% true.

[The7ofDiamonds]

Anyway, I voted OTHER. And replace other with "BORING" and "Cost inefficient" (mainly due to power creep).

[Prof. Aragorn]

Apparently you don't realize that I took the 150 point Namor:

-dropped Flight from that Special Power of his (he had Flight on 6 of 9 clicks)
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

-dropped :m-dolphin: and added :m-wing:
Points wise: This would increase the point total a bit, but between the first change and this one that points would be roughly the same, 150

Eh, you're about right there. Flight and Aquatic are nearly identical. Considering Namor's special power is undercosted as it is, it's no biggy.

-added a 10 range
Points wise: According to the feat Ambidextrous this would cost roughly 20 points

Not really. 10 range on a 9 click figure is 2 points on the first click and every third click thereafter. Actually cheaper. About 6 points.

-replaced Defenders with Superman Ally
Points wise: This would be a wash

Not even close. Superman Ally Team ability is expensive just looking at figures in the characters point range and amount of clicks. Look at any Supergirl with the ability. Look at Steel. Look at Ultimate Iron Man (despite the awesome playability of Ultimates Ultimate Iron Man and Thor, the team ability is what makes them cost quite a bit for low defenses and little mobility in today's game).

Defenders is typically a cheap team ability. The difference between IC Rookie Strange and IC Experienced Strange is team ability. While Defenders team ability can get expensive for 8+ click characters (looking at Guardians of the Galaxy and Squadron Supreme characters), but it's nothing compared to Superman Ally at 8+ clicks.

-Dropped his special Leadership with regular Leadership
Points wise: This would lower the 150 a bit

Probably not. The special power probably costs equal to or less than regular leadership as around this time, Seth Johnson was designing dials to be highly cost-efficient.

-Dropped his Aqua-Regen for Toughness.
Points wise: This would be a wash

-upped his points by 23

This would not be equal at all. Highly situational regeneration versus toughness which is fairly determinable as an expensive power to have for 6+ clicks. At this point, toughness actually becomes more expensive than Invulnerability (or at least nearly equal to).

So...how did you come up with 200??

9 clicks of Invulnerability/Toughness. 9 Superman Ally Team Ability. That would add about 40-50 points easily.

While I do agree that this Superman needs more damage reducers and at least Super Strength on his 2 damage clicks - this is a Superman I'll field quite a bit. He's more economical. He plays like Superman. He's still a threat given his anti-stealth and close combat tendencies. Late-game he switches tactics which can make him more vulnerable than most figures, but it's accurate at least.

For 173 points, he's head and shoulders more efficient than most other Supermen out there.

[Wolf_Otaku]

Nice consistent stats compared to other Supermen in his price range.

The Justice League Superman also has no damage reducers on his back end and has a higher cost.

It just seems like DC fanboy whining at this point.

I mean, out of all the power houses and super-efficient pieces you're getting in DC 75th you have to whine?

[DOOMSTRIKER]

i am in no way a DC fanboy and i still think this is crap, maybe if they woulda made the dial a rookie and not a vet... also the sculpt, ugh

[Geof-Force]

On the one hand this version makes the BatB look like a great deal and is highly inaccurate for the Superman in "War of The Supermen" who trained the New Krypton army in how to use their powers and then proceeded to whup their tails for following Zod's leadership. (Unless this version represents the brief moment when the Sun turned Red or partially weakened due to Kryptonite exposure).

On the other hand, you have a cheap, usable Superman for Justice League teams that doesn't make you squeamish that Fortitude isn't available in Modern Age as you can fit adequate back up for his point cost.

I'll still be using him, of course, particularly on Soldier teams. Those clamoring for a Superman they can mod to Amalgam's Super Soldier (whose powers and limitations are accurate for this figure) get their wish. But I will still be waiting until the "new" Wizkids gets it right... hopefully at the time "Smallville" ends or before the hype for the new "Man of Steel" movie begins :cool:

[Wolf_Otaku]

i am in no way a DC fanboy and i still think this is crap, maybe if they woulda made the dial a rookie and not a vet... also the sculpt, ugh

His dial is weak because of his cost. Despite whatever reasons people may want to argue (Such as comparably stronger characters for a reasonably lower cost), a character in that point range is not going to be the all-around super-brick Superman they want.

He is cost-efficient, which is what I look forward to when building Just league theme teams. That way its more fun if I can fit him and his teammates in a reasonbly-pointed game.

But, I agree, his sculpt is crap. Paint job doesnt look that bad. If it were a dynamic pose, however, it would look good. But he's just.......standing there....

[Havickzbeck]

I'll still be using him, of course, particularly on Soldier teams. Those clamoring for a Superman they can mod to Amalgam's Super Soldier (whose powers and limitations are accurate for this figure) get their wish. But I will still be waiting until the "new" Wizkids gets it right... hopefully at the time "Smallville" ends or before the hype for the new "Man of Steel" movie begins :cool:

I could hardly agree more.
And Man what a great idea for Super Soldier!
Thanks!

[gatharion]

The dial's not exciting, nor is it super cheesy for the points (it's no Ms. Skrull-vell), but it looks certainly playable for its points.

What an absolutely wretched sculpt though! Ugh!:(

[ccs]

I voted "other".

As soon as I saw that sculpt I mentally placed this figure in the recycle bin.

Could I make it work? Yes.
But since there's already better dials, with much better sculpts, why would I even bother? Unless I happen to draw him in a sealed game.....

[Terman8er]

For 173 points, he's head and shoulders more efficient than most other Supermen out there.

Why do we have to compare him to other Superman figures? Aren't all the figures compatible with each other?

It just seems like DC fanboy whining at this point.

I mean, out of all the power houses and super-efficient pieces you're getting in DC 75th you have to whine?

So because there other good figures its "fanboyish" to complain about one particular figure? :confused:

[Wolf_Otaku]

So because there other good figures its "fanboyish" to complain about one particular figure? :confused:

No. The fact that this entire thread is dedicated to complaining about how this isn't the perfect superman, or at least, not another perfect superman.

[DOOMSTRIKER]

His dial is weak because of his cost. Despite whatever reasons people may want to argue (Such as comparably stronger characters for a reasonably lower cost), a character in that point range is not going to be the all-around super-brick Superman they want.

He is cost-efficient, which is what I look forward to when building Just league theme teams. That way its more fun if I can fit him and his teammates in a reasonbly-pointed game.

But, I agree, his sculpt is crap. Paint job doesnt look that bad. If it were a dynamic pose, however, it would look good. But he's just.......standing there....

i dont think i realy care about the "cost effective" argument, this dial is a bad representation of a veteran Superman, period. and his S emblem looks small and wierd and it seems like his cape may be doing the big thick body swallowing thing that Owl from HoTs cape is doing.. on top of the blah pose and sad face

[Terman8er]

No. The fact that this entire thread is dedicated to complaining about how this isn't the perfect superman, or at least, not another perfect superman.

This has NOTHING to do with "perfect" and everything to do with a poor representation of Superman. Do try to keep up.

[Grumpygoat]

I wanted an economical Superman like woah. However, I also wanted one who is, you know. Good. This one is decidedly bland. I'd rather see a click or two shaved off and the rest of the dial improved in the process. I also wouldn't cry if his first click was Invulnerability, while he picked up Impervious on his second click, seeing as how front-loaded Impervious seems to be wicked expensive.

[Wolf_Otaku]

This has NOTHING to do with "perfect" and everything to do with a poor representation of Superman. Do try to keep up.

He has damage reducers. Impervious which represents his immunity to harm.

Charge that represents his classic charging into battle.

Flurry for his speed, as well as his one-two fighting style.

Running shot for when he focuses and releases an eye-beam blast.

Ranged Combat Expert to represent his heat vision.

And defend to represent his constant need to protect people.

Other than Battle fury, which I'm sure is there to limit his ranged potential as Superman isnt ranged-dominant, it seems to hit the mark.

So how is he misrepresented?

[Grumpygoat]

So how is he misrepresented?

Yeah. While I think he has an entirely pedestrian, not particularly great dial, it's still comic accurate.

Different characters can be represented in different ways.

EDIT: All right, I'll grant that Battle Fury isn't entirely comic accurate. As named. However, clicks where Superman focuses solely on close combat aren't inaccurate. People get hung up on names too much. Sometimes it's the effect that really matters.

[Terman8er]

Seriously? This is the best they could do? We actually have a Superman with 3 clicks of no damage reducers. Yeah, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can now hurt Superman on his last three clicks. :confused:

How about a printed two damage (with no super strength) on his last two clicks....*ZOMG!* Really? What is this Hypertime? We have a Superman that can't break through a wall folks!!!


He has damage reducers. Impervious which represents his immunity to harm.

Not on every click (pointed out in my OP)

Charge that represents his classic charging into battle.

Right because Superman is always moving into combat slower than the Thing (Thing has a 7 move attack while this Superman can only muster a 5)

Flurry for his speed, as well as his one-two fighting style.

Right....WITH BATTLE FURY! Now THIS is Superman. :confused:

Running shot for when he focuses and releases an eye-beam blast.

A move and attack equates to "focuses" on his heat vision? Huh?

And defend to represent his constant need to protect people.

Right...becaue that young punk with that .38 special is always going to get his pound of flesh from Superman...since he has NO DAMAGE REDUCER!!!!

Other than Battle fury, which I'm sure is there to limit his ranged potential as Superman isnt ranged-dominant, it seems to hit the mark.

Really? Superman can't get through a wall there. That's the Superman I know and love. :rolleyes:

So how is he misrepresented?

Where do I begin??????

Since you obviously missed my opening post I quoted it for you.

Allow me to add Battle Fury....Battle Fury on Superman??????????

[Sharkbite]

I am not, by any means, a fan of Superman. I have pulled quite a few issues of Superman and Action Comics over the years, however, out of my great love for Lex Luthor.

My take on it has to do with gameplay. Every single issue of Superman I've ever read, Superman has run right into the thick of things. Yes, I understand he has heat vision and artic breath, but he resorts to punching people a heck of alot more often than I ever see him use them. Superman is always first to put himself on the front lines, placing himself between opposition and his teammates, playing that role of protector. Because I this, I do not like Superman figures that play primarily ranged.

The hypersonic/running shot/ranged combat expertise take on Superman has been done to death. If you just showed me the powers and combat dials, I'd guess Silver Surfer long before I'd guess Superman. When I think of the classic appearances of Superman, I think of powers like Charge, Super Strength, Impervious, and Close Combat Expertise (I don't think his eye-lazers should ever be out-damaging his push-the-world-backwards strength).

As for point value, I consider that neither here nor there. Realizing there will be remakes, my blanket opinion for every figure is that if it must be remade, remake it at a differant point value so it can be more flexible for team building. When two figures of the same character, with roughly the same dial design, are put out at roughly the same points, one will end up being superior for gameplay, which means the other is useless. We have 5 Wolverines, for example, that are between 70 and 75 points; I don't care if they make him at 50 or 150, just so long as he can fit into differant team builds than the previous incarnations. I'll go for a cheap Superman this time around to fit into JLA teams.

Not a big fan of the dial (because of the RCE), but the point value doesn't bother me for being a "cheap Superman". I would prefer to see my JLA Superman have a 4 range and a ton of CCE with a full dial of high defense values and alternating between Impervious and Defend, focusing on his role of being up front and defending his teammates, rather than hiding behind his weaker friends while they get KO'd and he snipes at people, fleeing back behind a building after each shot. You know, give me a Superman that plays like Superman acts.

[Wolf_Otaku]

Not on every click (pointed out in my OP)



Right because Superman is always moving into combat slower than the Thing (Thing has a 7 move attack while this Superman can only muster a 5)



Right....WITH BATTLE FURY! Now THIS is Superman. :confused:



A move and attack equates to "focuses" on his heat vision? Huh?



Right...becaue that young punk with that .38 special is always going to get his pound of flesh from Superman...since he has NO DAMAGE REDUCER!!!!



Really? Superman can't get through a wall there. That's the Superman I know and love. :rolleyes:



Where do I begin??????

Since you obviously missed my opening post I quoted it for you.

Allow me to add Battle Fury....Battle Fury on Superman??????????

10 speed with charge is nothing to laugh at. Compared with other grounded bricks who have 8. And using that Thing as a comparison is just wrong since everyone almost agrees hes broken and too good for the points. Because, honestly, how many characters have a 12 with charge?

The overlap of Flurry with battle fury is, I'm sure, to emphasize close combat with him. Since that's more Superman's style.

Perhaps you misinterpreted my use of focus? I meant the change of fighting style to focus on ranged, which is why I'm sure RS and RCE overlap.

While Superman actually being able to be hurt by a pog is dumb, its not like its uncommon since JL Superman also has an empty defense in his Self-Sacrifice slots. Not to mention, I'm sure a full dial of reducers would inflate his cost.

He should be able to break walls at all times, but, really, at the point in the game are you more worried about breaking walls or dealing damage?

Unless the flavor text for the Battle Fury specifically points to rage or a loss of temper, I'm sure it's still meant to emphasize using him in close combat and limit him to that.

Since, in the past (V Icons Supes anyone? ), people have played Superman comic-inaccurately by having him shoot and run away.

[sae]

I picked other. The main thing I'm looking for is figures that do something NEW. There are so many ~150 point figures that do almost the same thing that it's silly.

charge+flurry has been done...but it's an economical movement/damage increase that we know would work with superman by allowing range but making melee a better option

trait: super strength would open up the attack slot for a special (as most standard attack powers don't fit superman very well)

"one thing people always point out, if Man of Steel was used a standard, is that Man of Steel should have an SP combining Defend with Imp or Inv."-agree

while its less efficient than RCE, superman should have CCE on the dial somewhere...or the heat vision should be a special power allowing range on a zero range superman

frost breath could also be a special power to EE for tokens instead of damage (would probably end up over-costed and under-used though)

a version of leadership that prevents pushing damage instead of providing additional actions would be nice on deserving big pointed figs

[DrugSex]

Superman looks so sad in that sculpt... maybe because he don't have any click of HSS and a lot of battle fury...

[Xais]

Other. I hate Superman. I think he's a terrible character and this set has 3. It does give me the opportunity that never came from BB to field Kryptonite man, especially with Doomsday. So there is a silver lining.

[Clclix]

Wow, I feel I have seen this poll somewhere before...oh yeah, I made it 10 minutes before this one. :disappointed:

In the effort of good cooperation, I picked on the fence. I like the dial, its good and solid and cheap. Its just not the Superman that I was expecting. I was looking for something around the LE Man of Steels power level. LE Man of Steel is not too HSS overpowered with only 1 click, and was a close combat beast, as Superman should be. He could hang with most figs around his power level and above.

I don't want another Icons Superman. I want a Superman who won't get his butt kicked easily by Doomsday, Darkseid, and others that Superman fights it out with and it ends up being a good fight. This new Superman will get his butt handed to him by Darkseid and Doomsday easy, even if Doomsday does not use his trait. This just should not be, he should be able to hang with them.

Don't get me wrong, when I get this fig, my JL Superman and the BatB Superman that I never played anyways will be exiting my play case and I will be using this new one instead, but I don't see how there can be such a difference between this one and the WL Superman. I think there should have only been about 50 points difference and a different set of powers, but thats my opinion.

[First Lensman]

Most of the figures that are named "Superman" are just NOT "Superman". He should have a trait that grants him Hypersonic Speed, Super Strength and Impervious! This would be a minimum requirement!!!

[Nightwing-fan]

Except for the keywords they gave this Superman, which is great.

This is nothing but a piece of GARBAGE! What is with Wizkids???? Have they ALL become Superman HATERS? The Justice League version was average at best. The Brave & Bold version is by far the worst one ever made. This version is just like the B&B copy, one of the worst every made. They have neuthered Superman down to basicly nothing.

It seems like they are trying to turn Superman into Normalman.

When are we ever going to get a true version of Superman that is a combination of Icons Vet, Chases KC & E2 with lots of HSS & RS, high Attack & Defense values, along with 4-6 damage throughout his dial that isn't a brick or Chase figure.

The way its looking, we'll never get a real version of him.

To continue my complaint. What is with his sculpt? Have they decided to hire little kids to do some of there sculpting? From the photos of Superman he looks awful.

Between him and the Sgt. Rock Sculpts it looks like both of them has a stick shoved up their ***.

Once again Wizkids/Neca has totally disappointed me on how they treat Superman. If they cant figure out how to treat the one hero who started it all, they why dont they all quit their F****** jobs and get someone else in there.

[larthosgrr8]

He has damage reducers. Impervious which represents his immunity to harm.

Charge that represents his classic charging into battle.

Flurry for his speed, as well as his one-two fighting style.

Running shot for when he focuses and releases an eye-beam blast.

Ranged Combat Expert to represent his heat vision.

And defend to represent his constant need to protect people.

Other than Battle fury, which I'm sure is there to limit his ranged potential as Superman isnt ranged-dominant, it seems to hit the mark.

So how is he misrepresented?
QFT!! why does everyone want a superman to just rip ppls head off. how can u compare him to namor. he has range and namor doesn't. once namor loses his charge he NEEDS to be next to someone to be effective. superman doesn't!!

superman can do six dmg to you on his first couple clicks. how is that bad?? get him past the charge and pray ur not next to him cause he's flurrying you. he's cheap enough to put some help(batman) with him.

can his one beat doomsday, probably not? supes will still get at least two shots on him, but doomsday was MADE to kill superman. when doomsday first came, supes flew to him and just slugged it out, and died!!! the problem is ppl want too much. make the chases crazy good and they're broken. scale back the attack because supes pulls punches, but still zips around, he sucks and can't hit. start him with a good attack, make him cheap, but take away the zipping around, he's garbage. the golden age supes can't use hhs and nobody has said he sucks!!

the WL supes is sick...oops i'm sorry. he can't see through stealth, so he sucks!:nervous: can't please them all. the sculpt does suck, no argument there.

[HH2011003]

The dial is non-thrilling, but I'm more upset by the sculpt than anything. He just looks like he's bored. Maybe he's letting the other player beat him up because he's sick of Heroclix.

[Thrumble Funk]

I'm fine with it. After ICONS, CD NGN Superman, the chases, etc., I'm good with having a figure that stands and fights as opposed to HSSing every other turn.

Seriously, does EVERY Superman need to feature up-front HSS and/or the ability to do 8+ damage at the top of his dial?

[HeroclixFrank]

I wouldn't mind this Superman at all...........


IF IF IF (!!!!!!) they at least did an "official" Earth DC Superman FIRST!!!!:confused::confused::tired:

THEN go back and do the "cheaper" version, or the Red Son version, or the E2 version, or whatever they feel like.

We have "official" representation for BatMEN, and Wonder Woman from tournament legal sets, but Superman keeps getting the shaft over and over and over. Yes, KC is awesome. Yes, E2 is the bomb. But they are NOT the mainstream Superman. I just want ONE mainstream tournament legal Superman that can back up the name Superman that isn't some sort of "gimick".

THEN go and do White Lanterns, or Golden Age, or Ultraman, or whatever the heck they wanna do.

[Vine]

The dial is non-thrilling, but I'm more upset by the sculpt than anything. He just looks like he's bored. Maybe he's letting the other player beat him up because he's sick of Heroclix.

I don't mind the pose or the expression on the sculpt. I can tolerate inaction poses, and the expressions can be difficult to convey on a tiny figure like this.

What I do mind are the terrible proportions. Everything is wrong about the sculpt; the legs are chunky and barely formed, his forearms resemble popeye, his torso is oddly shaped with a barely-there S symbol. Ignoring the choices made in the pose, which includes facial expressions, the sculpt is simply low-quality work.

As to the dial? Suits me fine. Close combat oriented Superman who won't break the bank. Like most versions of a character that's been done a dozen times, he represents a specific snapshot of Superman's abilities, rather than a comprehensive account. I do agree that he shouldn't be a veteran, however.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I'm on the fence.

I was hoping for a modern-age Superman that combined some of the ideas from JL Superman or Man of Steel into a slightly better package. The way that we got a great-but-not-broken Thor in HoT, I was hoping for a Superman that would actually scare people in this set.

He suits a purpose, but he seems pricey for that niche. I guess we don't have a lot of comprable figs in that power/price range to compare to.

I don't like that his TA is semi-wasted. And I wish he at least had one killer click, even on top. What's with Superman and low-ish AVs relative to his points?

[Thrumble Funk]

Looking at it all again, this is a close combat-centric Superman. We haven't had one since Origin. We can have one again. Its okay.

Contrary to popular belief, not EVERY Superman has to be a 250+ box of ranged insanity.

HOWEVER, I will say that the whole "Defend = he defends people" thing doesn't work for me. Superman can defend you by shielding you from harm. He doesn't suddenly turn vulnerable when he does so.

[NeoShazam]

If he suddenly has Sharpshooter and Indomitable he's okay, otherwise its pretty much garbage.

The Battle Fury seems heavy handed, he shouldn't ignore mind control and with the first 6 clicks benefiting from close combat he'd probably get there anyway without the shoehorn of battle fury.

The end dial is terrible. He suddenly turns range but without CCE or Hypersonic or any close combat stuff ? Can't break Invuln on the last 2 clicks without a crit hit or outside help ? WTF ?

[BLACKHEART25]

I think hes pretty good. Not a bad superman at all and one that you can field with a good trinity team!! I'm pretty excited about this version. The Battlefury is off and I think he needs superstrength and 3 damage on his last clicks, but hes about right.

[sol]

At least he can hit things this time...:cheeky:

[DarkBlueAnt]

Personally, I like his stats. I never like Superman to have Hypersonic Speed, since it encourages playing him in a very unSuperman-y way.

That being said... he's not getting a date any time soon.

[Grumpygoat]

The Battle Fury seems heavy handed, he shouldn't ignore mind control and with the first 6 clicks benefiting from close combat he'd probably get there anyway without the shoehorn of battle fury.


Superman fought off the effects of the Black Mercy. He has every right to ignore Mind Control.

[sol]

Superman fought off the effects of the Black Mercy. He has every right to ignore Mind Control.

He has 'every right' to do more than 3 damage on those particular clicks, too...but that didn't happen.

[3Gsniper]

I like it... I can fix the sculpt... 3 clicks of no damage reducers is better than that end dial of the JL one... Soldier keyword... sweet! I will use him proudly.

[Grumpygoat]

He has 'every right' to do more than 3 damage on those particular clicks, too...but that didn't happen.

A cost effective Superman is a good thing. It's just a shame that he's cheap instead of cost effective.

[Timeshadow]

This Superman is "OK" but defenitly not a Veteran.

I really think superman (and all Kryptonians for that matter) should get this trait and this object should be made avalable for PNP

Trait-Kryptonian resilence: This figure is only effected by outwit if it comes from the superman enemy TA, or figures that are a higher point value.

Kryptonite Special object: Cost 3 pts Any character that does not have Kryptonian Resilence Trait can pick up this object. If any figure with Kryptonian Resilence is within 4 sq of this object that Trait is negated. If a figure carrying this object attacks a figure with Kryptonian resilence his damage is penetrating. (this object cannot be used in a close combat or ranged attack)

[spider_ham]

This a lackluster version of Superman for 173 points. Not good, not awful. Average, but overcosted by 20 points or so.

In comparison, characters like Hercules and Namor are cheaper and have greater potential, even if they can't make ranged attacks or ignore hindering terrain for drawing lines of fire. Despite any "flaws" I might perceive in the dial and have to work around, the sculpt is the deal breaker for me: why wasn't the SR sculpt reused (with a repaint, minus eagle and flag/banner)?

The JSA and WL versions are stellar, however.

I understand that there is no definitive version of any character (a few come close, though), but when dealing with iconic figures such as Superman, you should simply expect a little more.

[DKowGawd]

not that impressive for a veteran, I almost like the B&tB supes better. At the same time, I'm also liking the trend of not having a game breaking superman every time we get a new one.

[Animadeus]

Why all the crying over the dial it's not that bad and trust me when you get your definitive superman I bet he will be well over 300 pts judging from what I hear he should have then people will complain that hes to much or to much cheese .The way I see it wizkidz always makes a batman , wonder woman and of course a superman so whats the point when another is just going to be made in the next set.

[Carabas]

Something a little better than this:

si045 U Namor
To be fair to the new Superman (which is perhaps slightly overpriced, but not by much), SI Namor is what I would expect to see for a 175+ points price tag, not a 150 one.

[Thrumble Funk]

Actually, this piece is a great representation of the Death of Superman Supes, right down to the end-dial Defend.

I'm thinking that with this piece they just made a Superman that Doomsday can actually KO!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Not really my cup of tea. After BatB and JL Supermen that both fell kinda short of my expectations, I was hoping for this one to be a bit better.

If I pull him, I'll still use him because he's not awful. He's just not fast enough, tougher enough or accurate enough to be Superman.

[FlavorableDeez]

Add indomitable and a JLA keyword with hypersonic speed along with 5 damage and you've got yourself a Superman that nobody can complain about. Why doesn't Wizkids understand any of this? Oh, and my opinion of Battle Fury on those clicks along with fury and quake show that he's loosing it. It's happened before.

[Wilx]

I do like that they gave us an affordable Superman. But battle furry? Ad realy what's with that sculpt?

[UndeadEnigma]

After seeing the sculpt, I couldn't stop laughing. Then I saw the dial, and thought Alright, a Superman I can make useless and kill.

The Luthor\Joker in me just came out, and I can't wait till I see Superman waiting in line for the atm to open so he can wash his Clark Kent outfit once he exchanges the twenty for smaller bills and some quarters across the table.


:speechles:nervous::grin::laugh::o:o:grin::nervous::p:devious:

[Cliffjumper]

How many hypersonic supermans do you need? He's fine. Whatever...you dont like this version there are 20 more. He's been done so many times a different spin doesnt hurt if you abolutely need to include yet ANOTHER Superman in a set...nevertheless 3.

Special powers are throwing the point generators WAAAAAY off from the calculations of regular powers the older figures have.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

How many hypersonic supermans do you need? He's fine. Whatever...you dont like this version there are 20 more. He's been done so many times a different spin doesnt hurt if you abolutely need to include yet ANOTHER Superman in a set...nevertheless 3.

I'd like a nicely balanced one that isn't instant cheese, but isn't neutered either.

BatB Superman has the lowest starting AV of any fog over 200 points, except for a couple with activation clicks and a Hulk.

JL Superman does a paltry 3 damage from range, and half his dial lacks damage reducers, and lacks the SA TA. Any one of those would be fine, all three suck.

Crisis E2 Superman is pretty cheesym not to mention being off the charts in terms of point cost. Crisis KC is actually good. Of course, both are chases which makes playing them a bit unfair.

CD Man of Steel is actually great, I will still play him. It would be nice if he had a damage reducer on his top click, but it's acceptable.

Icons Supermen are all fine, though V is overpowered as noted.

I'd be tickled if we got a Superman in the threat and point range of common Thor from HoT. Not broken, but formidable, and without any glaring faults that make playing him a crapshoot.

[Thrumble Funk]

How many hypersonic supermans do you need? He's fine. Whatever...you dont like this version there are 20 more. He's been done so many times a different spin doesnt hurt if you abolutely need to include yet ANOTHER Superman in a set...nevertheless 3.

Hey! We have a trinity of Trinities in this set!

[The Sandman]

Aside from the Battle Fury, which I just find odd, they could have saved themselves a lot of grief by saying this was rookie level, not vet. If I look at this as rookie, then I am fine with having a cheap superman.

[dariusq]

Garbage, even at that 'economical' cost.

Frankly, I thought the BatB Supes was a perfectly good representation at a reflective cost. His AV stats aren't bad, they're average (and very steady). Everything else about him is simply monsterous.

[MattMinus]

How many hypersonic supermans do you need?

Just one that's tourney legal and doesn't suck.

From the poll results, I can only assume that I'm somehow playing a different game than the majority of respondents, because this fig is an irredeemable POS.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Garbage, even at that 'economical' cost.

Frankly, I thought the BatB Supes was a perfectly good representation at a reflective cost. His AV stats aren't bad, they're average (and very steady). Everything else about him is simply monsterous.

The lowest starting AV over 200 pts, barring activation clicks and an old Hulk.

Just saying.

[Havickzbeck]

Just one that's tourney legal and doesn't suck.

From the poll results, I can only assume that I'm somehow playing a different game than the majority of respondents, because this fig is an irredeemable POS.

Well look at those numbers again dude.
Most people agree its a poor choice for superman if you add the people on the fence with those that think its crap.

[hanzoslash]

As a marvel guy, I like it.

Superman should not be stronger than Hulk, Thor, or Silver Surfer.

[Darth Sabre]

As a marvel guy, I like it.

Superman should not be stronger than Hulk, Thor, or Silver Surfer.

:noid:

You should try reading Superman comics sometime....100+ Class strength..just saying..

[Grumpygoat]

Well look at those numbers again dude.
Most people agree its a poor choice for superman if you add the people on the fence with those that think its crap.

Yeah. I'm on the fence because I wanted a version of Superman that's less than 200 points. I received it. It's just that it's also a piece of junk (or mediocre at best) on top of that.

[PaxZRake]

It's not Electric Superman, Eradicator, Steel, or Superboy, and thus it is doomed to not having me care about it.

[MattPetersen]

Seriously? This is the best they could do? We actually have a Superman with 3 clicks of no damage reducers. Yeah, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can now hurt Superman on his last three clicks.



Something a little better than this:

si045 U Namor


To be fair, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can hurt Namor on his last 3 clix too. ;)



As for this Superman....Man I guess I am just way to optimistic or something....I don't know, I like this Superman. I like the point cost, I like what he does and how he is built. He is a different kind of Superman, and I think that is great!!
I guess I need to get off the realms because I'm not negative enough.

[Slade Wilson]

So how is he misrepresented?

first its a vet that feel like a rookie, second super man should never have lower than 3 damage, 2 is just wrong on superman even with rce or cce.

This is superman we are talking about c'mon people.

[Wolf_Otaku]

first its a vet that feel like a rookie, second super man should never have lower than 3 damage, 2 is just wrong on superman even with rce or cce.

This is superman we are talking about c'mon people.

And Superman is not the end-all, be-all.

[Prof. Aragorn]

I wanted an economical Superman like woah. However, I also wanted one who is, you know. Good. This one is decidedly bland. I'd rather see a click or two shaved off and the rest of the dial improved in the process. I also wouldn't cry if his first click was Invulnerability, while he picked up Impervious on his second click, seeing as how front-loaded Impervious seems to be wicked expensive.

The sad thing is that Impervious is merely a touch more expensive than Invulnerability, and neither are incredibly expensive unless you throw on 4+ clicks of back-end toughness.

There's even a point way late in the dial where toughness is equal to or more expensive than Invulnerability and Impervious.

I would have put Super Senses instead of Toughness on Superman. It would have shaved the cost some. Then maybe make the back dial with 3 damage and Invulnerability.

He'd probably cost like 185-190 points, but I consider that still an economic Superman.

[Prof. Aragorn]

first its a vet that feel like a rookie, second super man should never have lower than 3 damage, 2 is just wrong on superman even with rce or cce.

This is superman we are talking about c'mon people.

I can support a Superman with eventual 2 base damage.

It's not having super strength and other powers to make him deal more damage (like RCE, CCE, or Flurry) that makes him comic inaccurate.

It's not like a jump from 2-3 damage would have been too expensive either.

[Terman8er]

To be fair, anyone capable of dealing 1 damage can hurt Namor on his last 3 clix too. ;)

Ah, but there is one thing....that's Namor and Namor is no Superman. At the end of his dial, if not in water (where he gains regen), it is implied that Namor is all dried out and hurtin'. Thus anyone should be able to hurt Namor.

[Geof-Force]

first its a vet that feel like a rookie, second super man should never have lower than 3 damage, 2 is just wrong on superman even with rce or cce.

This is superman we are talking about c'mon people.

I agree. Particularly since this version pimp-slapped other Kryptonians in line as their Commander AND, briefly, General. Those last two clicks should have at least had HSS, 3 damage and toughness instead of RCE... and why is it we still have no "standard" Superman with Regeneration to represent the instant recovery he gets from Solar power?

Going back to this version, I hope WK erratas it to at least have :d-indomitable: or a useful trait to make up for the overcosted dial it has right now... AND THE HORRENDOUS SCULPT. :angry:

[FFFAN]

I want to change my vote. This figs dial and sculpt suck. He's an inflatable Superman love doll.

[No-Name]

Are they really reusing Brightest Day Aquaman's sculpt for this set?

[PhoenixFire]

Vet Superman with average 9-10 fist? The battle fury is going to hurt unless he dives in there but with so many characters sporting combat reflexes these days he likely won't even hit an amazon...O_O

[TheScarletCrit]

I have no problem with the fig for the points it is fairly average and by no means terrible. Also we have rumors of a superman-themed set in 2011 so I'm sure you fanboys will get the superman you want soon enough.

[IceHot]

The more I look at the dial the more I realize they still cant get Superman correct the front end of the dial is pretty good.

I am really happy to get a Superman without HSS.

But Yeah:

Full Dial Damage Reducers would be good (Heck I would like to see a trait that prevents him from TAKING more then 2 damage from any source of damage)
Battle Fury is wrong
RCE i S Running Shot is just a dumb waste of points - sure he can do those things but it doesnt translate well in the game.
Damage less then 3 is silly
Range of 8 Yes his range could be 22 but it doesnt translate well for the cost in this game...reduce his COMBAT Range to 6 to save points.
Built in Fortitude Trait (I would like to see his Abillities to be unoutwittable by any figure that doesnt have the Super Enemy TA
Full Speed Charge SP instead of HSS would be how I see my Superman
One click of 5 Damage wouldnt be out of the question either
nor would One click of 20 Defense

Heck I could see allowing his defense to be outwittable and giving him a full dial of 20 Defense.

[agrippa1737]

He is ugly. What is with the "waiting for the bus" poses.

The problem with supes, in general, is you love him or hate him. Personally I like him. I Love Wolverine, Rorschach, Question, Deadpool (1-800-dea-dpoo I love it), and I like Superman (Justice League Cartoon and KC brought him back for me). And here is the problem it clouds your judgement when looking at his dial. Fans want a E2 or KC type supes in every set. So do I...so I CAN GET ONE and not pay $100 bucks for it. Haters want a 80 point dial that spiderman can whop up on. (by the way... Spiderman...I hate him. The movies made him look like such a whiner). Anyway, as a reader of both Marvel and DC I have guys I like and guys I hate but as a heroclix player I take it all with a grain of salt. They never really match up.

Superman should never, and mean never, be able to be hurt by a nonsuper-powered being minus nukes or krypo. but then how would heroclix be any fun. Robin killed hulk for me once. Huh? Union Jack wasted team after team for me in a tournament once... what the?
Yes... I agree with range. Superman charges into battle using fists, head, feat, and so on. Only later does he retreat and use heat vision.
Strength: 100+ strength class...come on. He is way beyond that. And that is why so many hate him. His strength is beyond almost everyone else.
So WIZKIDS should have a superman set with about 30 supes in it. And 10 friends/allies and 1 or 2 bad guys (kidding). One SOOPERMAN could be in the power range of 500-1000 points and then we could have a 50 point baby superman and a bunch in between.

[agrippa1737]

He is ugly. What is with the "waiting for the bus" poses.

The problem with supes, in general, is you love him or hate him. Personally I like him. I Love Wolverine, Rorschach, Question, Deadpool (1-800-dea-dpoo I love it), and I like Superman (Justice League Cartoon and KC brought him back for me). And here is the problem it clouds your judgement when looking at his dial. Fans want a E2 or KC type supes in every set. So do I...so I CAN GET ONE and not pay $100 bucks for it. Haters want a 80 point dial that spiderman can whop up on. (by the way... Spiderman...I hate him. The movies made him look like such a whiner). Anyway, as a reader of both Marvel and DC I have guys I like and guys I hate but as a heroclix player I take it all with a grain of salt. They never really match up.

Superman should never, and mean never, be able to be hurt by a nonsuper-powered being minus nukes or krypo. but then how would heroclix be any fun. Robin killed hulk for me once. Huh? Union Jack wasted team after team for me in a tournament once... what the?
Yes... I agree with range. Superman charges into battle using fists, head, feat, and so on. Only later does he retreat and use heat vision.
Strength: 100+ strength class...come on. He is way beyond that. And that is why so many hate him. His strength is beyond almost everyone else.
So WIZKIDS should have a superman set with about 30 supes in it. And 10 friends/allies and 1 or 2 bad guys (kidding). One SOOPERMAN could be in the power range of 500-1000 points and then we could have a 50 point baby superman and a bunch in between. then everyone is happy

[hanzoslash]

:noid:

You should try reading Superman comics sometime....100+ Class strength..just saying..

I have. Not impressed. The only stuff I really got into was due to the artists(McGuinness, Ross, Quitely), not the stories.

[Darth Sabre]

I have. Not impressed. The only stuff I really got into was due to the artists(McGuinness, Ross, Quitely), not the stories.

Well, whether or not you are impressed is inconsequential. You shouldn't say that he shouldn't be stronger than those guys, because except for Surfer (who is the only one who can increase his strength to incalculable levels) he is on par with one (Thor's upper limits are unknow and he has been shown to destroy a planet with a single blow, while Superman has been shown to move them, depending on who's writing him) and probably far stronger than the Hulk (who as far as I know has not exhibited strength to that degree, though I could be wrong).

[sol]

Well, whether or not you are impressed is inconsequential. You shouldn't say that he shouldn't be stronger than those guys, because except for Surfer (who is the only one who can increase his strength to incalculable levels) he is on par with one (Thor's upper limits are unknow and he has been shown to destroy a planet with a single blow, while Superman has been shown to move them, depending on who's writing him) and probably far stronger than the Hulk (who as far as I know has not exhibited strength to that degree, though I could be wrong).

Eh, the 'hard limits' Marvel imposes on their characters have always gone right out the window when they cross over with DC. That's not to say DC is somehow superior, however. They just do all sorts of goofy stuff with power levels because they don't have any hard limits to their characters (with the possible exception of the Flash in terms of speed). They can do whatever the current writer says they can do.

Suffice it to say, Superman operates on a level roughly equivalent to Thor or the Hulk in his universe, where 'the dials go up to 11'. ;)

Oh, btw - I agree with you. Hanzoslah's opinion is irrelevant in the context of the conversation.

[Thrumble Funk]

Well, whether or not you are impressed is inconsequential. You shouldn't say that he shouldn't be stronger than those guys, because except for Surfer (who is the only one who can increase his strength to incalculable levels) ... and probably far stronger than the Hulk (who as far as I know has not exhibited strength to that degree, though I could be wrong).

You are. Hulk has been in the Marvel Class 100 category for years, and the upper levels of his strength have not as of yet been charted (per the Marvel Universe guidebooks).

[Thrumble Funk]

RANT: Also, for the record, ain't no way Batman kicks Hulk in the gut and knocks the wind out of him (ala the original Marvel/DC crossover books). Ever. I'd have rather seen him use Bat Hulk Repellent spray.

[Darth Sabre]

You are. Hulk has been in the Marvel Class 100 category for years, and the upper levels of his strength have not as of yet been charted (per the Marvel Universe guidebooks).

Other than the time he leveraged the mountain in Secret Wars, I have never seen Hulk exhibits feats which would prove unequivocally that he can perform the types of things Thor and Superman are capable of. I understand that he's in the class 100 category. But Thor and Superman are in the class 100 +. So if you don't mind, some proof would be good.

[Thrumble Funk]

Other than the time he leveraged the mountain in Secret Wars, I have never seen Hulk exhibits feats which would prove unequivocally that he can perform the types of things Thor and Superman are capable of. I understand that he's in the class 100 category. But Thor and Superman are in the class 100 +. So if you don't mind, some proof would be good.

Hulk is 100+ as well. As for examples:

There are a TON here. (http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/strengthfeats.html)

[Prof. Aragorn]

I can't believe people are calling this a terrible dial.

It's about what you can expect for a 10 click dial, Superman Ally, and brick character powers and stats.

I feel it represents Superman well enough. It could be more powerful, but at the same time, I'm tired of upfront Hypersonic, well over 200 points, and nothing but 5's and 4's for damage.

The Brave and the Bold Superman was a total disappointment - extremely playable (take Icons Superman, drop his attack but keep it longer, and give him hypersonic later on in his dial, too, and add a target), but Icons Superman + a second target bores me to death.