Am I the only one that thinks the DEFENDERS Suck

[matman]

The DEFENDERS team ability is cheesy and seems it was created the way it was because the word DEFENDERS is derived from Defense.

I personally think that the DEFENDERS team ability should be like the Minions of Doom or Spiderman team ability, this is because the DEFENDERS were always a melting pot team. Hell even deadpool, was on the DEFENDERS for a time.

Now they have given beast the DEFENDERS team ability, he would have been better off with an Avengers team ability since that ability is more useful anyway.

Of course we dont always get what we want

Quicksilver has a Brotherhood and Avengers ability but not the Xmen?
Sauron does not have the Brotherhood ability?
Moondragon does not have the DEFENDER ability?

[metzgarob]

whoa bro

tell me how you REALLY feel

[Logan Myrddin]

These are TEAM abilities. Don't try to apply them to INDIVIDUALS. It doesn't work. However, I think SOMEONE wasn't really thinking with the Defenders team ability.

[shin-goji]

I don't think Quicksilver was a long-standing member of the X-Men.

[mylo1wagner]

Quicksilver was never an X-men; as far as I know. BUt I seem to remember him hanging out at the mansion once. He fought against the X-men when he was with the Brotherhood.

I like the Defenders ability and cannot wait for more defenders so that it can actually be used.

[PsychoDBoy]

Why do you care that Moondragon doesn't have the Defenders abillity when you don't like it? :p

[Dr.Notsoevil]

Quicksilver was an X-Men during the Age of Apocolips

[mylo1wagner]

OK, in an alternate reality (limited series) Quicksilver WAS an X-man.

My Defenders team is...

E- Dr. Strange
E- Hulk
R- Firelord (one herald of Galactus is as good as another (Silver Surfer))
U- Electra (no Valkyrie)
V-Thug

I customized my Thug to make him look like Wong (Dr. Strange's assistant). They should make a cheap Wong as a Defender; then he could share defense!!!

This team works well because everyone tries to hit Firelord and Strange; and by the time they take them out the Hulk is too brutal for words and nobody can touch him. HULK SMASH!!!

[Spookythecat]

Well, Wolvesbane wasn't an X-man either, and she's got the team ability down the dial.

Quicksilver was in one of those supplemental X-teams, so I don't think an X symbol would be horribly out of line.

And I agree that the Defenders ability is kind of useless as it stands, unless you want to field a team of all Doctor Stranges and Hulks.

Huh. Here's a thought for Heroclix version 2.0 The Defenders team ability would allow you to share defensive powers with adjacent characters... Therefore Strange next to the Hulk would have Invulnerability.. (But lose energy shield, cause you can only have one power per slot.)

[matman]

Quicksilver was on x-factor for a long while so he should of had the x team ability.

wolverine was on the defenders as was ghost rider, darkhawk, nomad, dr. druid, luke cage,deadpool, cadeavor kid, and spider woman just to name a few.

Maybe my first post was out of line on bashing the defenders team ability, i just dont find it useful, and it seems there are a lot of posts that praise it and plead for more, i think if it would be more realistic if the power was the wildcard feature that the defenders were writen to be, since the defenders fought together with a fluxuating roster. wouldn't that be something that shows teamwork rather then defense.

[mylo1wagner]

Defenders have had a changing lineup; but they have also fielding a fairly consistant team for years at a time.

I think they just need more Defenders for the ability to come into its own. Ones with high defense to share and ones with low defense that NEED to share.

[Thorgrin]

I don't think you were bashing it, per se. You just don't find it useful and that's fine. I know it's worked for me in the past. Kind of like having the defend power, but not being able to outwit it and stuff.

Personally any team ability that emulates a power that can't be outwitted is a good team ability. I really don't like the way outwit is currently and find it a really limiting thing when I actually construct my teams for tournament play. Most of the time, you're not going to see some of the less used bricks because of it like Hulk, Juggernaut, Thanos, etc, just because outwit makes one of their main powers (the main reason their point value is so high) pretty useless. Again, in tournament play.

I don't think they really need to be a wild card team. Maybe they've had a lot of members throughout their history, but I think in the end, they still had a "team" mentality and not the "worked with several other teams/individuals" that spider-man and the MoD members have. If used correctly, it's a good team ability. Only problem is there aren't enought members (yet) to take advantage and the ones out there generally high defenses or the MoD/Spiderman guys also have high defenses with the exception of an E-Black Cat (from what I remember).

[skeevo666]

1. The Defenders team ability is transitive (just like the Defend Super Power) so you can "chain" in down a line of characters. Having more characters on the Defenders team would facilitate in this.

2. Unlike the super power, a team ability can't be outwitted


Now if yr reading JonL, The Gargoyle is made out of stone so give him a why DV when you make him :D

Thanks!

[Mushroomfantas]

Exp Beast and Exp Iceman from XP are on the defenders

[Emanon]

Slightly off topic, but a really fun way to use the defender team ability:

In a 400 point game, put vet doom with exp hulk. You wanna hit doom? if you succed,then he passes it off to hulk, making him nastier. You want to hit hulk, you gotta get past his 18 shared defense first. this combo can be alot of fun!

[Corwin]

When you really get down to it, Beast should be on the Spiderman Ally team. He's been on all the teams, so he ought to display any of the team abilities and that's what the Spidey TA is all about. That said, we can hope the Hank McCoy LE has the Spidey TA.

We really need more Defenders!!

corwin

[matman]

Hank McCoy will probibly be an avenger

[razz10555]

we usually play 1000 pt games, I with the help of custom figs I can be the defenders

e doc strange
e hulk
namor, sheild agent head, thug arms, riddler torso, weather wizard from the waist down with skrull ears for ankle wings, put him on a e thor dial & painted on a defenders logo,
silver surfer, hydra operative, gun removed sanded smooth all over with a dremmel tool, fire lord platform painted silver with the tip of one of blades swords for the board fin, all on a OWAW superman dial painted on a defenders logo
u moondragon

now with e iceman & e beast on defenders team, (& a custom nova in the works) I'll have one heck of a defenders team

[skeevo666]

Originally posted by matman
Moondragon does not have the DEFENDER ability?


Having read the Defenders issues (originally and a few years ago for RPG research) she was in, you'll see that it's nothing to get worked up over (unlike Angel's clix :angry: )


<clears throat>


Moondragon joined in issue #125 (when the title changed to "The New Defenders")

She was placed by Odin in the custody/tutelage of Valkyrie to learn humility. To assist in this, Odin had placed a (unremovable by her) headband on her preventing her from mind controlling others.

This lasted until #139 when a selfless act on her part caused the headband to drop off. The next issue she made herself a new costume (a much more modest black & white affair) to reflect her "turning over a new leaf" and wore it until the end of the series (#152, more on that in a moment )


The Unique Moondragon from Clobberin' Time does not represent her period with the Defenders. If it did she would either:

A: Be lacking Mind Control & sporting the headband. (125-139)

or

B: Be sculpted with the black & white costume. (140-152)


Here is a link (http://www.defenders.ca/covers/def/covers.htm) to a website with scans of nearly all the Defenders covers of that era where you will readily note both headband and alternate costume!




Lest you think the above evidence nit-picky, let's return to that final issue . . .

where in order to defeat a Beyonder-enhanced Moondragon (and a soul-less Gargoyle controlled by her) 4 of the remaining 7 members had to sacrifice their lives :cry:

thus ending the team (and freeing up Beast, Iceman & Angel to join Cyclops & the newly-revived Jean Grey in X-Factor, the real reason behind the title's cancellation :angry: )


Can you really argue that she deserves the TA when she didn't want to be there in the first place & ended up DESTROYING them in the end? Not really the definition of a "team player" :ermm:





Hopefully, they'll make an Infinity Watch TA one day; that she would deserve (and I'd be bummed if she didn't get . . . )

[mohenjo]

When I read this thread. all I can think is make a Sub-Mariner! That and a new Dr. Strange, since the old one can't be used in tournaments any more.

I saw that Hellcat is going to be included in Ultimates. Now if they can add in a Valkyrie and a Nighthawk (and the idea of a Wong bystander was good, too), this would be a decent team.

[Captain K.]

The Moondragon figure is from the Infinity Watch days. She didn't have Telekinesis until she got the Mind Gem.

As for the team ability, it's excellent. Unlike the Defend superpower, you can move your pieces around and still keep your shared defense.

I have yet to lose a game when I've played with them.

300 point team:
Silver Surfer
E Iceman
E Beast
E Black Cat

488 point team:
Silver Surfer
E Iceman
E Beast
E Dr. Strange
E Hulk
E Black Cat

I look forward to putting the new V Hellcat in as well. I think the V is a bit better than the LE.

If you don't have the Surfer, you can use the Unique (black costume) Spiderman instead and save some points.

[magneto51889]

some of the defenders are poweful players

like Dr. Strange
and
the Silver Surfer

and Hulk and Beast pack a powerful punch

[Thanosied]

I think a Infinity Watch team ability should be in the game.

Warlock
Moondragon
Drax
Pip the Troll
Thanos
Maxam
Gamora

Now that would be a good team and they could all have like willpower as a team ability or something.

Now the Defenders team ability is good for the defenders but you can't make use of it because they all have high defence already. They could have anti-outwit though which would be very useful.

Oh well got to go win a PTQ for VS peace.

[SinisterManus]

Originally posted by mylo1wagner
OK, in an alternate reality (limited series) Quicksilver WAS an X-man.

My Defenders team is...

E- Dr. Strange
E- Hulk
R- Firelord (one herald of Galactus is as good as another (Silver Surfer))
U- Electra (no Valkyrie)
V-Thug

I customized my Thug to make him look like Wong (Dr. Strange's assistant). They should make a cheap Wong as a Defender; then he could share defense!!!

This team works well because everyone tries to hit Firelord and Strange; and by the time they take them out the Hulk is too brutal for words and nobody can touch him. HULK SMASH!!!

Instead of using a thug, you could have made a customized Mary Jane with the Spider-Ally TA...

[Thunderbolts]

Thanosied lives?

Anyway, the Defenders may #### but they're getting more love than the Fantastic Four, Skrulls or MoD are lately...

tb - will any Skrull be tournament legal by year end?

[The Werle]

Currently the Defenders are only feasible to play if you have Silver Surfer on the team, without him the shared defense doesn't go far enough. Figs like Hellcat are a good step towards making them better as well, they need more low cost members.

That being said, they also need a better midrange power piece to hold the team together. Surfer is too expensive to payout in a 300 point game. The defenders need Namor. I'd imagine he'd have a solid 17 DV with Invul, and he'd be a much better brick for the team than Hulk.

I still can't believe they made Beast and Iceman with the TA but neglected Angel though.

[ludd_gang]

Originally posted by The Werle
Currently the Defenders are only feasible to play if you have Silver Surfer on the team, without him the shared defense doesn't go far enough.

I disagree. In the late game, even a 16 defense can be hard to surmount.

Certainly you're going to get more mileage from the Surfer since he's got a defense that is good even in the early game, but you have to spend a lot of points for it. I imagine the TA's formula hikes the cost based on the Defender's defense.

Of course, the old days of E Dr. Strange taxiing E Ultron are gone, but I still like the TA. :laugh: