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LurkMaster2000
03/04/2003, 13:34
okay, i'm not doing multiple reviews like azs or others here, i'm just reviewing the X-men because i felt like it.

(the views expressed in this review are not necessarily correct. they're just thoughts i have that hopefully might make some sense.)

the roster:

cyclops
jean grey
magneto
professor X
nightcrawler
rogue
white queen
wolfsbane
wolverine
phoenix
boom-boom/meltdown
shadowcat
iceman
beast
psylocke
gambit
colossus
storm
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okay, first things first. there's not a more versatile team out there. period. the only marvel powers they are missing are flurry, pulse wave, and probability control. PC could be a big problem for them, and i'll go into this a little later. but first let's admire their plethora of abilities.

need mind control? one of the best, professor X, at your service. need taxi service for the professor? pick from a plethora of x-taxis (a sentence you would have never heard just a month ago).

need range combatants? take your pick between cyclops, storm, iceman, phoenix with her 12 range, and the stealthy gambit. need some help with that range attack? hello psylocke. how about some explosion? gambit and boom-boom. (oh, hi again, psylocke. my bombs explode much better now, too).

close combatants needed? colossus, wolverine, wolfsbane, psylocke, beast, and rogue. need to boost up that AV? or damage? or defense? gambit, beast, and walking storm here.

you get the picture... you need it, xavier's kids have it.

one of the biggest weaknesses this team has is the fast drop in most of their attack values -- which aren't exactly the highest to begin with. this is why probability control could possibly give these guys nightmares. imagine playing the brotherhood, and you're trying to hit magneto and his 19 defense from range, and they've got destiny and scarlet witch. that means some your best attackers need to roll a 9 three times in a row. not gonna happen..........

...unless of course, you've got good ol' beast, gambit, or experienced storm! make that a 6 three times in a row whilst they perplex maggy's defense down 3. not too shabby.

ah, the beauty of versatility. coming up with a countermove for almost anything.

speaking of perplex, that threesome can make nightcrawler a big-hitting pain in the bollocks. i can see it now... beast, gambit, and storm perplex nightcrawler's damage up to 5...

(i know i know, all you have to do is send people to block their LOS and perplex is toast, that's not the point of my rant. i'm trying to sell the x-men here, not come up with strategies to melt cheese.)

in any case, what was once another big weakness of the team is now a strength thanks to Xplosion -- mobility. you can bet shadowcat is going to make it onto a few teams, just for her ability to bring people in and out of action without regard to blocking terrain and all that jazz. iceman's a good cheap taxi, and if you guys are in a temporary bind, he can set up a barrier for you. the veteran storm comes relatively cheap at 52 points, and she can do 4 damage from 10 slots away. and rogue can fly in and hit while bringing another big hitter with her for more damage... the way it's set up now, you can have taxis taxiing other taxis and letting one do the dirty work, then having the taxi return the favor on a later turn. beautiful. i'm not even going to mention jean grey and phoenix with their TK, even though i just did.

their biggest asset over many of the major teams is their ability to heal -- which compensates for their lack of defense, shallow dials, and damage-soaking powers. i mean, let's face it. you can count on one hand how many X-people will still be useful after one good smack from thor and a dumpster (actually, not many figures outside of the X-men can handle this either). but the X-men have two people with support with decent healing AVs -- jean grey and beast. this is where the x-men's low defense (on average) helps them out. the x-team ability helps them out even more here. if jean grey has 1 click of damage on her and you want to heal a dying gambit who has 2 clicks left, gambit can give jean grey a click, thereby giving jean back her support and lowering gambit's defense even more. an easier patient to heal. (which makes me think -- shouldn't it be harder to heal someone who is closer to death? if only life were like clix.)

also because of their team ability, the X-men don't have to worry too much about pushing. you can find quite a few "x-fodders" to keep around just to provide those clicks of healing *cough* experienced boom-boom *cough* (anytime a SHIELD soldier has a higher attack value than you and is cheaper, you're going to be my blocker if you make it onto my team).

did i mention the beauty of psylocke yet? with BCF from up close, she's a perfect body guard for the phoenix or gambit...

what do the X-men have for themselves in the future? i don't work for wizkids, so i don't know. but you can probably bet on seeing longshot giving them that much needed probability control. angel -- providing perhaps an even cheaper taxi at less than 20 points... and the x-men could use an outwitter. yes, i don't count the 94 point veteran white queen who needs to be pushed a few times to get to outwit and can't attack worth squat as the x-men outwitter because of reasons i won't list here...

and that's all for my x-review. i'm sure you guys can think of things i missed, so feel free to add because i'm definitely interested to see what else i haven't thought of...

P.S. Veggiehater and everybody else who has replied on this thread pointed out that you perplex doesn't work the way i thought it did, so i took the whole perplexing defense section out. if you don't know what they're talking about, they're not the crazy ones. i am.

Veggiehater
03/04/2003, 13:48
Originally posted by LurkMaster2000
next turn, nightcrawler rests, they perplex his defense up to 21...

Lurkmaster,

Not trying to ruin your thunder or anything but this doesn't work as perplex only lasts til the end of your turn. It's not like outwit which lasts an entire "cycle..."

VH

LurkMaster2000
03/04/2003, 13:50
Originally posted by Veggiehater


Lurkmaster,

Not trying to ruin your thunder or anything but this doesn't work as perplex only lasts til the end of your turn. It's not like outwit which lasts an entire "cycle..."

VH

<edit>
oh oh, wait, i think i just got what you meant. doh, i've been playing it wrong then... i'd been putting doc ock on the same team as nightcrawler just to boost his defense while he's a sitting duck as well. thanks...

Thunderbolts
03/04/2003, 13:52
Perplexing defense does nothing.

Anyway, if (when?) they add Prob. Control (Longshot, Domino) and a decent source of Outwit (Forge, Leech?) to the X-Men, they'll really be cookin' then.

Angel.... won't ever be cheaper than Vulture, X-Men team and probably Energy Shield/Deflection will see to that.

Rynth
03/04/2003, 13:59
All perplexing his defense does is waste your perplexes for that turn.

LurkMaster2000
03/04/2003, 14:18
Originally posted by Thunderbolts
Angel.... won't ever be cheaper than Vulture, X-Men team and probably Energy Shield/Deflection will see to that.

i can see the rookie being less than or at least equal to 20, if they don't give him any powers (like vulture). not sure how much the x-team ability costs, but it's not as expensive as i once thought. i mean, they could use the stats they gave exp boom-boom, but instead of explosion, give him flight. and keep the damage at 1. i can see something like that...

thing is, the x-taxis are already pretty cheap, so i don't know if having a super-cheap one that does nothing but fly would be worth it...

and yes, thank you everybody for pointing out you can't perplex defense and expect it to last until the beginning of your next turn.

the itsy bit
03/04/2003, 17:03
Angel, he could make a usefull taxi (cheap and fast 12 move ?) and for the rest of the game would be a nice fodder for the team !

Storm(R/V), well she is to 1-sided IMHO. all she's really good for is doing damage at range AND being better at it then Scot (Cyclops) !

LurkMaster2000
03/04/2003, 19:15
Originally posted by the itsy bit
Angel, he could make a usefull taxi (cheap and fast 12 move ?) and for the rest of the game would be a nice fodder for the team !

Storm(R/V), well she is to 1-sided IMHO. all she's really good for is doing damage at range AND being better at it then Scot (Cyclops) !

yeah, the great thing about an all x-man team is that nobody is really fodder. the weaklings can help heal your big hitters...

as for storm, i would say that she has that "swiss-army knife" syndrome. she's also a decent taxi and she's good for energy explosion; so you can bet she and psylocke will make it onto some teams as a unit. she's almost as good as scott when it comes to damaging from range on the first click, but this doesn't take into account that she costs almost 26 points less...

deal wit' this
03/04/2003, 19:36
This thread seems to have a lot of X-men fans on it, so I won't have to hide my obvious and admited fanboyness. That being said, Don't you guys think that Gambit, Iceman, and even to a lesser extent Storm are a little underpowered. I mean Iceman can incase entire cities in Ice don't you think that was a little under represented in his click. And gambit's vet only with an attack of 9? I know this is a cross set example, but I personly think that Gambit should have at least been as good as Nightwing, a character if I remember correctly he has beaten in an old DC Vs Marvel crossover. Don't get me wrong overall I think this set is great and I will play with the X-men nearly all the time. I guess no clix would have ever lived up to my expectations for my favorite characters. Like I said I'm a fanboy and would never deny it. What do you guys think?

tyroclix
03/04/2003, 20:08
I have to agree somewhat with deal wit dis .

What I think happened was they were trying to keep the cost down on these X-men so you could play a 200 and 300 point game with them.

Overall, I think Iceman is pretty close. Toughness would have been good even for a click or two and they could have done a little more with his powers. Gambit (my least favorite X-men ever) I think is even more accurate. I think he needed at least 2 lightening bolts, though. Storm is who I am most disappointed in - and I was really excited about her. They way they have her, she simply calls lightening. What about blizzards? (Incapacitate) How about wind? (Force Blast) Fog? (Smoke) The way they have her now, she is just Electro - which will be great for those who like to make their own characters.

Oh well, like I said, it was probably done like that to keep the costs down. So don't bet on ever seeing a Silver Surfer. It's too bad WK's got caught up in making pieces for 200 and 300 point games. If the standard was 400 and 500, you'd see more expensive figs that were a better representitive of their stats from the Marvel Universe. Of course then there would be more actions per turn and I guess research told them people want to play the game in under and hour...

And finally, as far as any concerns about the X-men's low attack levels, I think X-Plosion took care of that. Why do you think this X-Men based expansion has so much perplex?

At least that's the way I see it.
________
volcano vaporizer (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)

whiteperegrine
03/05/2003, 00:37
there are tons of characters that they can put out in future sets to bolster the swelling ranks of the x-men.


Longshot: unique with probability control
Forge: doubtful but an r/e/v with outwit would work
Banshee: r/e/v, energy explosion and flight
Havok: r/e/v, rce...basically a dup of scott as that is what he was power wise if not skill wise.
Rachel: while she is not a fav for some here I can see her getting a fig


that was just the tip of the iceberg...there are dozens of characters in the x-men line up that could be made. I mentioned it in another thread. the complete x-men line-up can rival any other team out there in shear numbers and the only team bigger would be the avengers...

EVIL CAP
03/05/2003, 01:52
Anyone notice that now the X-Men are probably the second most stealthed team now behind the Bat-team?With all the Wolverines and now Gambit Psylocke Exp Storm etc they have quite a few figures with that power now

Thanosied
03/05/2003, 02:17
quote: tyroclix
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Oh well, like I said, it was probably done like that to keep the costs down. So don't bet on ever seeing a Silver Surfer. It's too bad WK's got caught up in making pieces for 200 and 300 point games. If the standard was 400 and 500, you'd see more expensive figs that were a better representitive of their stats from the Marvel Universe. Of course then there would be more actions per turn and I guess research told them people want to play the game in under hour.
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Actually there are tournaments out there that are 500 and 600 points and they still only last 30 mins. I should know I have won three such tournies. There is actually no reason not to release a 250-350 point Silver Surfer. Big deal if he is so exspensive to play, its intent would be, to be out there for its fanbase to play with in fun games.

Saying this they should release with him a 200-300 point Thanos with no flying, phasing(teleporaton up the wazoo) and outwit. This Thanos and Silver Surfer would also have 11 clicks each and Im currently designing them for wizkids. There would also be no reason for not releasing characters like Galactus and such because there intent would be, as collectibles and even though he would be too large for a booster he could be released as a giant figure.

Sure the Silver Surfer and Thanos would be useless pieces in a sealed tournament, but do you think all the pieces in sealed are usable? NO. And anyone who picked one out of there booster would be happy as a pig in s h it because they go home with one of the coolest and bigtime characters in comic history. Jon L should take a look at this post and show the game designers because it makes alot of sense.

the itsy bit
03/05/2003, 05:52
Originally posted by tyroclix
I have to agree somewhat with deal wit dis .

What I think happened was they were trying to keep the cost down on these X-men so you could play a 200 and 300 point game with them.

Overall, I think Iceman is pretty close. ..Storm is who I am most disappointed in - and I was really excited about her. They way they have her, she simply calls lightening. What about blizzards? (Incapacitate) How about wind? (Force Blast) Fog? (Smoke) The way they have her now, she is just Electro - which will be great for those who like to make their own characters.

And finally, as far as any concerns about the X-men's low attack levels, I think X-Plosion took care of that. Why do you think this X-Men based expansion has so much perplex?


yep, they made all X-men cheap even if it costs them certain powers.
which I hate !!
Mageknight is made for 200/300 point games, Heroclix is NOT !!
HC is made for 400/500 point games in my opinion !!

Iceman, well this is the Iceman from the early version (the weak snowpop etc.) the AoA/White Queen Iceman with his FULL powers will be made as a unique I think.

Storm..
YUP, she's better then Cyclops (cheaper in points for thesame abilities =better!), but she should have gotten all those other cool DC powers (making her cost in the 100 points range) !!:mad:
the EXp. is very nicely done though.
:)

I like the AV the X-men have gotten (only Colossus should've gotten more clicks of 10 AV and MUCH higher DV !).
Perplex instead of better stats..
I'd rather have good stats then perplex !
lots of perplex only adds to overpower certain already good figs !

LurkMaster2000
03/05/2003, 09:40
i would agree that storm could have used some smoke cloud or force blast in her repertoire, but i am pretty happy with her representation. if she had those other powers, she would cost a bit more and would become an expensive support piece with low attack values compared to others in her cost-range -- and people would complain about being unusable (see iron man).

i'm happy with gambit as well. only thing i would have changed is giving him at least 2 arrows.

also, keep in mind there is always the possibility of a unique, so there can always be a more powerful storm or iceman in the future.

forge with outwit to start. lookin forward to that one... it would make vet white queen more obsolete.