Is it a remake? Select all that apply. [Archive]

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 02:54

There's been a lot of discussion on remakes lately, and I plan on doing a little analysis on the number of remakes in recent sets. However, in order to that, I need a working definition of a remake. And I realize that my personal definition might not be the most common one, so I want to see what the rest of the Realms thinks. Please check all answers that you think constitute remakes. An example of each will follow the description.

The same character with a different costume. (xp077 Iron Man and sv217 Iron Man)

A different character with the same identity. (ht106 Batman and aa016 Batman)

The same character with the same identity, but a different power set [an actual change in their powers in the comics, not just a difference on the dial]. (ht110 Superman and cd069 Superman)

An alternate-universe version of the same character. (ht111 Superman and un095 Superman)

The same character with a different power set AND identity (cm072 Venom and ws025 Anti-Venom)

A generic character of the same group with a different title (ht009 Checkmate Agent and bb006 Checkmate Pawn [White])

A specific character made from an existing generic (cj012 Parademon Warrior and bb030 The Parademon)

An alter ego version of a character (lg216 Bruce Wayne and bb001 Bruce Wayne)

The data from this poll will be used to do an analysis of exactly how many remakes we are getting per set, and how the current WizKids/NECA compares to Wizkids/ Topps in that respect. All answers which 50% or more realmsers selected will be counted as remakes when I analyze the sets. Thank you for participating, vote carefully, and remember, you're doing it FOR SCIENCE!

Edit: I see a lot of people saying in their posts,"But remakes aren't bad!" I'm not arguing that they are; (at least not in this particular thread) This poll is just to see what you consider a remake; not whether it is "good" or "bad" for it to be made.
Edited again for Suttkus because I didn't include "none of the above: Tell you what, because I don't think I can edit the poll itself, if anyone wants to vote "none of the above," they can make a post to that effect, and I will personally count every such vote in this thread and count them against the poll totals.

invisibo

12/13/2010, 03:02

The same character with different costume. (xp077 Iron Man and sv217 Iron Man)
Remake. They're both 616 Iron Man.

A different character with the same identity. (ht106 Batman and aa016 Batman)
Sorry, misread here. Read AA099 Batman. They're different guys behind the mask--not a remake.

The same character with the same identity, but a different power set [an actual change in their powers in the comics, not just a difference on the dial]. (ht110 Superman and cd069 Superman)

A Remake, but of a very specific kind that represents a very particular version that is otherwise unrepresented in clix that seems more justifiable to naysayers.

An alternate-universe version of the same character. (ht111 Superman and un095 Superman)

Not from the same dimension? Not really a remake.

The same character with a different power set AND identity (cm072 Venom and ws025 Anti-Venom)

It's the same as CD Supes and Any other superman of the same dimension.

A generic character of the same group with a different title (ht009 Checkmate Agent and bb006 Checkmate Pawn [White])

Those are generics--they represent any number of people. Not a remake.

A specific character made from an existing generic (cj012 Parademon Warrior and bb030 The Parademon)

Not a remake--represents a specific character that just so happens to be a 'member' of a specific generic set.

An alter ego version of a character (lg216 Bruce Wayne and bb001 Bruce Wayne)

Remake, and also a remake of any other Earth 1/New Earth Batman.

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 03:04

Nothing to see here. Move along...

T. Paul Stiles

12/13/2010, 03:07

I think it depends. I didn't pick any as I see all of them as remakes on occasion but would also consider all of them not to be remakes at times too. Sorry for not being very helpful.

invisibo

12/13/2010, 03:18

Check again. The common Batman from Arkham Asylum is Terry Mcginnis, from Batman Beyond.

Yeah, I misread the collector's number, though I edited it while you sent me that message via PSYCHIC MESSAGE.

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 03:19

I think it depends. I didn't pick any as I see all of them as remakes on occasion but would also consider all of them not to be remakes at times too. Sorry for not being very helpful.

I understand. That's how I feel at times, too, but I realized that if I wanted to analyze the number of remakes across sets, I would have to set some hard rules to do it by in order to maintain objectivity. (Otherwise, when I do the analysis, I would probably end up with half the realms complaining about X character not being counted as a remake when Y was counted as one.)

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 03:21

Yeah, I misread the collector's number, though I edited it while you sent me that message via PSYCHIC MESSAGE.

Yeah, I see that you edited at the same time I was making my post.

michiganj24

12/13/2010, 03:21

I think the big thing is how big a differnce
Iron man regular Iron Man Stealth and Iron Man Extermis not enough a difference(just power level not actual powers) so they are remakes
Superman Electrical a big enough differnce but off hand the only one I can think of
The same character with the same identity, but a different power set

invisibo

12/13/2010, 03:21

I understand. That's how I feel at times, too, but I realized that if I wanted to analyze the number of remakes across sets, I would have to set some hard rules to do it by in order to maintain objectivity. (Otherwise, when I do the analysis, I would probably end up with half the realms complaining about X character not being counted as a remake when Y was counted as one.)

I can guarantee that no matter what metric you use, people are gonna complain.

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 03:24

I can guarantee that no matter what metric you use, people are gonna complain.

I'm sure of it. But this way, when they complain, I can point the finger right back a them, because I'm allowing the realms to determine my metric for me. And when they complain about that, too, then I will just ignore them and move one.

I think the big thing is how big a differnce
Iron man regular Iron Man Stealth and Iron Man Extermis not enough a difference(just power level not actual powers) so they are remakes
Superman Electrical a big enough differnce but off hand the only one I can think of
The same character with the same identity, but a different power set

Rogue is another example I can think of. Her powers altered RADICALLY in the comics and were reflected as such in 'clix. Although I think her powers have changed yet again since the last time she was made.

flatmatt

12/13/2010, 03:43

If it's the same person, it's a remake to me. So if it's 616 Ronin (Clint Barton), that's a remake of 616 Hawkeye (Clint Barton). If it's an alter ego 616 Clint Barton, that's also a remake. Ultimate Hawkeye isn't a remake of 616 Hawkeye.

Of course, remakes aren't by nature bad, and a different costume/power set/identity can certainly make an otherwise questionable remake more acceptable.

T. Paul Stiles

12/13/2010, 03:45

Well lets just say, so many Hal Jordans is too many, especially when it's been confirmed (???) that he's the Free Comicbook Day fig too. I have no problem with all the other Green Lanterns remakes (and Sinestro) but Hal is a little overkill.

Also, no single set warrants three Robins. Regardless of their civilian identity.

I think time is the key to it all.

Sharkbite

12/13/2010, 06:14

Same character equals remake. Remake does not nessesarily equal bad.

At times we practically beg for remakes; remember when the only Modern Age Wolverine was a flying cosmically powered zombie? It didn't matter that we had 15 616 Wolverines before him; we needed a legal Wolverine for tournament play.

I openly invite remakes. I only ask for one thing: Make remakes have a differant point total. It is rediculous to have 5 Wolverines within 3 sets that all cost 70-75 points. It's sad that our Batman roster goes 74, 75, 77, and 80; resulting in the non-chase choice of Batmans generally going to OotS and the new ones rarely seeing play. And most recently, the Hal Jordan overload has nothing to do with having 4 playable versions (we used to get that many in a single set with REVs), it has to do with him costing 150, 155, 157, and 169. After the fun, playable Blackest Night version, we didn't really need the next one to only be 2 points difference.

Differant point totals lend themselves to differant team building options, while two figures at the same value basically establish the "good" one and relegate the rest to the trade bin. Remakes are great if they bring more options, rather than just replace old peices or, worse yet, cost the same yet fall inferior to the precursor.

Timeshadow

12/13/2010, 07:39

1,3,5,8

I don't mind remakes much but as mentioned it would be nice if they were ether spaced out a bit more or had a different point value to allow for options for team building(at least a 10-30% point cost difference) The 3 spidies in WOS Black sute regular and cosmic are a good example of remakes at different point costs 78/95/319 are a good point spread. Ooh and bombastic Bag-man too that's 4. I didn't hear any complants about spidy being overdone in WOS :-)

BrianG

12/13/2010, 08:19

Suttkus

12/13/2010, 08:28

For my opinion: Most of those qualify as remakes, but qualify as GOOD remakes, so... how should I vote? Also, where's the option for "I don't think any of those qualify as remakes"? You don't have any place for that, which will skew the results.

(I should just add: "Pole Thrasher" as my avatar caption.)

Batarang96

12/13/2010, 08:53

I would prefer that the remakes be of the Golden Age characters with new dials and character cards.

I want to see the awesome characters that NEVER hit the map!

Characters such as Owlman, Stiltman, Cyborg Superman, Gentleman Ghost, Chemo, and dozens of others are cool, fan-favorite characters with fantastic sculpts. They simply lack competitive dials, comic-accurate powersets (SP's), and legality in the Modern Age.

Wombatboy

12/13/2010, 08:56

I don't think the same character with a different power set should count as a remake. Usually it represents that character at a different point in the comic. Does "Iron Spider" Spider-Man count as a remake of Spider-Man? Some would say yes but it's clearly a distinct version of the character, as opposed to say Superman from Hypertime/Icons/Justice League/Brave and the Bold who are all basically the same guy. Similarly Superman Blue and Superman Red were two separate people with totally different power sets from regular Superman, so I don't think they should count as remakes either.

As for a different identity I don't think that means it isn't a remake. Dick Grayson as Batman feels more like a remake of Batman than Bruce Wayne in a different guise would. Or would Dick Grayson as Batman count as a remake of Robin or Nightwing since it's the same guy with a different costume? Does Dick Grayson as Batman count as a remake of one figure or more than one?

I think thinking about this issue too much will drive a person nuts. Who cares if they remake a figure? I like it when they keep remaking Superman - I like the character and their ongoing efforts to try to get him right while maintaining game balance amuse me.

Azrael0626

12/13/2010, 09:19

In terms of Heroclix I consider a remake the same character in the same costume with a different dial like HT Batman R/E/V, JL OOTS Batman, Icons Batman R/E/V, Lamppost Batman, etc.

Once you change the costume or they have a an entirely different power set, then it is a different variation of the character not a remake.

An alternate reality version of a character or a different person under the mask is not a remake.

ctrosejr

12/13/2010, 10:00

Same character equals remake. Remake does not nessesarily equal bad.

...

I openly invite remakes. I only ask for one thing: Make remakes have a differant point total.

...

Differant point totals lend themselves to differant team building options, while two figures at the same value basically establish the "good" one and relegate the rest to the trade bin. Remakes are great if they bring more options, rather than just replace old peices or, worse yet, cost the same yet fall inferior to the precursor.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Thrumble Funk

12/13/2010, 10:03

Remake. They're both 616 Iron Man.

This may have been addressed already, but I disagree. IM armors have way different capabilities/bells and whistles, reflected by different powers/traits/configurations.

kunz

12/13/2010, 11:39

for me a remake is the same character again, but do it different, because of its bad dial, or because by the time the character came out didnt have any white power,
but doing a remake isnt always "doing a better dial"

dairoka

12/13/2010, 12:18

I'm with Sharkbite and Timeshadow. Remakes with Point spreads between them are good, giving a wider range for team building. My concern with the NECA releases are the repaints. REV sets were good, back when a set had 80+ figures in it. Drop the number in a release to 60, then pull a BatB with checkmate x3, checkmate x3, assassins x3, parademon x3,.... you're choking up a potentially awesome set with duplicates. Generic figures are welcomed, just not all at once at the expense of everyone else that they could have gone with.

vlad3theimpaler

12/13/2010, 12:35

Well here it is:

Superman has 29 Figures that has his name in the title.

Batman has 32 Figures that has his name in the title.

I think that we can consider these characters remade and will be remade in the future.

The Iron Man Mega Battle Pack and Batmans Battle Pack is definately a remake.

So my conclusion is if a character has more than about 4 figures they have been remade. If a figure looks the same and has the same dial it has been remade.

I understand that some figures like superman and batman have to be remade for Neca to sell product to new customers. I am just glad we are seeing some new characters like all the monkeys in the new set.
I deliberately left out "same character with exact same sculpt, paint job, and dial" because it's not even a remake, it's a reprint.
For my opinion: Most of those qualify as remakes, but qualify as GOOD remakes, so... how should I vote? Also, where's the option for "I don't think any of those qualify as remakes"? You don't have any place for that, which will skew the results.

(I should just add: "Pole Thrasher" as my avatar caption.)
If you think they are remakes, but good remakes, you should select them in your voting. I just edited the 1st post to make this clear, but I'll put it here, too, in case people miss it in the first post:
The poll is not whether you approve or disapprove of remakes, but what you DEFINE a remake.
Good point about not having a "none of the above option. Tell you what, because I don't think I can edit the poll itself, if anyone wants to vote "none of the above," they can make a post to that effect, and I will personally count every such vote in this thread and count them against the poll totals.

CowboyBebop

12/13/2010, 13:26

If it's the same person, it's a remake to me. So if it's 616 Ronin (Clint Barton), that's a remake of 616 Hawkeye (Clint Barton). If it's an alter ego 616 Clint Barton, that's also a remake. Ultimate Hawkeye isn't a remake of 616 Hawkeye.

If it's a different super-hero then it isn't a remake. Clint Barton Goliath is not Clint Barton Hawkeye. I think your criteria is not very realistic. No offense.

M.Drake

12/13/2010, 14:01

For me one main question decides if it is a remake and that is the question which character is the figure so I voted all that said same (civilian) identity.

But I have to add, that the question whether the character is an elseworld version, has a new powerset or a new identity which is not yet represented in clix determines for me if I think it is a good or needed Remake in my opinion

Thrumble Funk

12/13/2010, 14:05

If it's a different super-hero then it isn't a remake. Clint Barton Goliath is not Clint Barton Hawkeye. I think your criteria is not very realistic. No offense.

Yep, this. Both the Hulk and Mr. Fixit are Bruce Banner at heart, but the Hulk isn't Mr. Fixit and vice-versa.

brojase

12/13/2010, 15:02

After looking over these options, I realize that I have a very loose definition of 'remake', and I interpreted 'character' and 'identity' a little differently. With that caveat, here is my votes/reasonings.

The same character with a different costume- No. Different costumes can represent different capabilities (as with Iron Man) and different periods of character evolution (Superman and Batman over the years, for example).

A different character with the same identity. (ht106 Batman and aa016 Batman)- Definitely not a remake.

The same character with the same identity, but a different power set [an actual change in their powers in the comics, not just a difference on the dial]. (ht110 Superman and cd069 Superman)- This was the only one that I voted as being a remake (although, I don't necessarily consider the example here to be a remake because of the different 'costume'). I guess for me, the identity is what makes a character who they are- not the name or what they can do.

An alternate-universe version of the same character. (ht111 Superman and un095 Superman)- Different characters.

The same character with a different power set AND identity (cm072 Venom and ws025 Anti-Venom)- Again, the different identity (Eddie Brock versus Mac Gargan) means that it's a different character- even if they both share the 'Venom' mantle.

A generic character of the same group with a different title (ht009 Checkmate Agent and bb006 Checkmate Pawn [White])- Not a remake- there are all sorts of different divisions and rankings within armies.

A specific character made from an existing generic (cj012 Parademon Warrior and bb030 The Parademon)- Not a remake, because the generic soldier usually has no distinguishable identity (in Heroclix), whereas the named character does have that identity.

An alter ego version of a character- I voted no remake, especially the way they are doing alter egos now- because

gawain

12/13/2010, 16:00

Same character with different costume: With only a cosmetic change, definitely a remake (but with a refreshing taste!)

Same character with different identity: Not a remake. Immortus is not Kang.

Same character, same identity, different power set: Technically a remake, but least feels like one. A stealth armor Iron Man with Tony piloting would play a little differently, but it is still the same character as the Iron Men that have already been made.

Alternate universe version, same character: Technically not a remake, but can feel like one if the powers are similar. Ultimate Cap kinda plays like a 616 Cap.

Same character, different power set and identity. Hank Pym as Ant-Man and Giant Man are wildly different, I say not a remake.

Generic character, same group, different title: Different titles would suggest different roles, i.e. SHIELD Agent and SHIELD Medic. Not the same thing.

Specific character, generic group: When a character becomes unique, he ceases to be generic, yeah? The dial takes on that specific character's ability and personality. Not a remake.

Alter Ego: New mechanic, but same identity and power set. That's a remake to me.

Surfer13

12/13/2010, 16:41

In terms of non-generics, the same character with no substantial change in powers in the same basic costume is a remake, whether the figure uses a different name or not.

To me, anyway.

The Anthony Stark LE is basically a remake of the gold armor version from AW. The REV versions are remakes of each other, but not of either of those.

Looking at Superman, I would say that the Origins SR, the SR coming in DC75, the Crisis E-2 Superman, both KC Supermen, Superman 1 Million, the Superman Robot, the CD versions, the Clark Kent AE and LE from BatB and the upcoming White Lantern are not remakes.

I would go so far as to argue that the black suit unique from HT was not a remake, but instead a variation like the CD versions. Most of those other versions represent a different person, have a different power set, and/or have a substantially different costume.

In terms of generics, yeah, I guess that maybe the parademon drill sergeant and the Parademon grunts are remakes. The black and white pawns and knights are remakes. The different Amazons are remakes. But they're generics; It's okay.

The Parademon, Phillipus, Mademoiselle Marie, and Pawn 502 are not.

However close their powers may be, characters aren't generics, so they can't be remakes in my mind.

That isn't saying that I would love to see a set containing 16 generics in the common slot and every uncommon being a named repaint of those, but I wouldn't look at them as remakes.

Harlekin

12/13/2010, 17:25

CowboyBebop

12/13/2010, 19:53

The way I read it none of the choices are remakes, technically.

WakandaMan

12/13/2010, 20:13

Interesting poll topic.

My general rule is, if it's the same character then it's a remake. Therefore OOTS Bats, Bruce Wayne AE, and Vampire Bats are all remakes. Dick Grayson Bats is also a remake, but for a different reason (he's been made before as Nightwing and Robin).

Terry McGinnus (sp?) Batman however, was NOT a remake.

Generics aren't remakes unless they have the exact same title I think.

Remakes with different powersets are nicer, but they're still remakes.

TheFreak

12/13/2010, 20:36

The same character with a different costume. (xp077 Iron Man and sv217 Iron Man) Depends. Iron Man, nope, Stealth and Extremis or Hulbuster isn't the same. They'd be different. Wolverine Tiger Stripes and Wolverine Brown/Tan? not much different. I do think X-Force Wolvie is different though. He's more stealth, leader than charge in with claws.

A different character with the same identity. (ht106 Batman and aa016 Batman) different person? probably not a remake. especially Batman Beyond and Bruce. that's so different it's not even funny.

The same character with the same identity, but a different power set [an actual change in their powers in the comics, not just a difference on the dial]. (ht110 Superman and cd069 Superman) Nope, not a remake.

An alternate-universe version of the same character. (ht111 Superman and un095 Superman)Whoever thinks this is a remake is WRONG. Unless we get a new SoD Superman...that's a remake sure.

The same character with a different power set AND identity (cm072 Venom and ws025 Anti-Venom) Nope, not a remake.

A generic character of the same group with a different title (ht009 Checkmate Agent and bb006 Checkmate Pawn [White])Not even if one says Hand Ninja and the other says Hand Ninja

A specific character made from an existing generic (cj012 Parademon Warrior and bb030 The Parademon) Nope not a remake unless we've gotten "The Parademon" or "Mademoiselle Marie" before

An alter ego version of a character (lg216 Bruce Wayne and bb001 Bruce Wayne) This i'd say is closer. Especially Matches Malone and the AE Bruce from BatB.

In line comments above...Just my couple pennies. I like what Azrael0626 said. Same costume/powers, not a remake. once you change the powers (like Vamp Bats) it's not a remake unless it's another Vamp Bats.

dariusq

12/13/2010, 22:18

I don't necessarily mind remakes but DC75th just goes ludicrous overboard with the concept.

DKowGawd

12/14/2010, 01:27

I personally don't mind remakes, I don't care too much as long as they keep making clix, but I wouldn't mind if production could maybe slow down a little if that would help quality go back up. Some of the sculpts... It just seems like a few too many corners are being cut.

PresidntVictor

12/14/2010, 14:36

I need to add "An alter ego version of a character." to my list of checks. I checked the boxes on the front page and had a different interpretation (Batman vs Bruce Wayne, Hulk vs Banner, Hong Kong Phooey vs the mild mannered janitor, etc.).

thebigZZZZZ

12/14/2010, 20:06

i like the idea of the sets having 10 - 15 % of remakes that s fine with me...but the last set - 75th DC anniversary - was WAAYYY higher....almost over 50% of them are remakes. grrrrrrr..that does not bode very well in the future.

JOwenR2

12/14/2010, 22:00

None of the above for me, none of the options here to me are true re-makes

Had there been an option, Same charachter, same Identity, same costume, same experience level. IE AW079 Captain America (Rookie) - HA040 Captain America (Rookie) or IO 042 Batman (Veteran) -JL 001 Batman (Veteran). These I would have no problem say are remakes. Gun to my head I'd have to pick the Alter Ego option but I'm with holding vote to count towards none of the above.

odietamo

12/14/2010, 23:16

None of the above.

JDKenada

12/15/2010, 13:28

I selected options 1, 3, 8.

Perplexinator

12/15/2010, 16:15

I would love to see a Super Soldier figure (Steve Rogers) and I wouldn't classify it as a remake of Captain America. Nor would I classify a Captain America (Bucky Jones) figure a remake.

hacking851

12/15/2010, 23:02

A remake is when it ends up in the Classic line same figure same dial, thats a remake

vlad3theimpaler

12/15/2010, 23:38

A remake is when it ends up in the Classic line same figure same dial, thats a remake

That's a reprint, not a remake.

re·make
/v. riˈmeɪk; n. ˈriˌmeɪk/ Show Spelled [v. ree-meyk; n. ree-meyk] Show IPA verb, -made, -mak·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to make again or anew.
2. Movies . to film again, as a picture or screenplay.
–noun
3. Movies . a more recent version of an older film.
4. anything that has been remade, renovated, or rebuilt: The tailor is offering a special price on remakes.

re·print
/v. riˈprɪnt; n. ˈriˌprɪnt/ Show Spelled[v. ree-print; n. ree-print] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to print again; print a new impression of.
–noun
2. a reproduction in print of matter already printed.
3. an offprint.
4. a new impression, without alteration, of a book or other printed work.
5. Philately . an impression from the original plate after the issuance of a stamp has ceased and its use for postage has been voided.