Marvel (& DC) Arch enemies. what are your thoughts?

[Batman1983]

First lets look at what we have so far:

IC:
Prof. X <> Magneto < Sentinel (AE to both)
Wolverine <> Sabertooth < Sentinel (AE to both)
Dr. Strange <> Nightmare
Daredevil <> Bullseye
Spiderman <> Hobgoblin

CT:
Thor <> Enchantress
Mr. Fantastic <> Dr. Doom

XP:
Savage Hulk <> The Leader
Daredevil <> Hand Ninjas < Daredevil <> Bullseye (both AEs of hand?)
Spidey <> Green Goblin < Spiderman <> Hobgoblin ??
Iron man <> Mandarin

Next lets tally numbers:

Spidey has 2 AEs
Daredevil has 2-3 depending on how you look at it
Sentinel aside everyone else has 1.

So who need a second?

Ironman
Dr. Strange
Prof. X
Hulk
Mr Fantastic
Wolverine
Thor

From this lets guess who'll be in the next set(s) for AE:

Wolvy didn't get Lady Deathstrike for an AE so I'm thinking Omega Red AE to some new Wolverine.

Dr. Strange needs Dracula
Thor needs Loki
Ironman (new armor) will be AE of Titaniumman???
Hulk gets Windego
Prof X gets Shadow king??
Mr. Fantastic gets????????
(new) Capt. A AE of Baron Zemo

ok I'm thinking Omega Red is a sure in for the next set.
Capt & Baron Zemo are probably a high likely hood (we got Hulk w/ AE after the first set).
Ironman may fill that 3rd slot w/ someone (xplosion had 2 previous AEs & 2 new, CT just had 2 new).
Loki & Dracula will hopefully come out, but there is no need to reproduce their AEs (exept maybe uber-powerful current Thor)
Windego won't be in the next set (as Hulk's AE at least) cause hulk just got one in this set.
Shadow king is a guess & since they wont produce Prof X w/ cerebro anytime soon he'll probably wait.
Mr. Fantastic (I'm not a big FF fan) gets MoleMan??? I know I'm forgetting someone, but Dr. Doom is just so prevelent in my mind.

Other posibilities:

Punisher <> Morbius?, daredevil, &/or hand ninjas
new spidey <> Kraven or (my hope) Morlun, & the old Green Gob.
Namor <> WWII Human Torch


any other thoughts are welcome. thats all for me now.

[Ghost_Rider]

The new Spiderman and Green Goblin have a different shade of red. It's the same with the new Daredevil, a different shade of Brown. So there is no three or four way archenemies besides the Sentinels.

Ghost

[Ozymandas]

Don't AE's only apply to their respective sets (possible with the exception of Sentinel? Sinestro?- I don't know).
Example:
Bullseye is IC Daredevil's AE
Hand Ninjas are XP Daredevil's AEs
Hand Ninjas aren't IC Daredevil's AEs - they can play on the same team & there are no AE double point bonuses.
I'll have to see the color of their bases when XP comes out to be sure.

Some obvious AE's that were missed in the past:
Captain America - Red Skull (probably due to their being released in different sets)
Swamp Thing - Arcane
Black Panther - Klaw

My first votes for AE's are those who didn't get their true AE's in the first place, in addition to those named above, namely:
Thor - Loki
Dr. Strange - Dormammu ~or~ Baron Mordu (sorry, he's fought Dracula but he hardly qualifies as an AE. Besides, I'm not looking foward to seeing him as a HeroClix. Next we'd get the Mummy, Invisible Man, Frankenstein monster, Invisible Man, Werewolf, etc...)
Captain America - Baron Zemo (he's the leader of the MOE & we still haven't seen him after 3 sets?)
Silver Surfer - Mephisto
Hulk - Abomination (XP's version was matched up with Leader which is fine. Abomination would have been my 2nd choice. Maybe as 2 Uniques in another set so we aren't too bogged dow with dupes? Same with Captain America, Dr. Strange, Thor, etc...)
Nick Fury - Baron Strucker
Spider-Man - Venom ~or~ Doctor Octopus (I know he has 2 AE's already but Hobgoblin NEVER should have made the cut)
Daredevil - Kingpin (a more powerful Kingpin than we have, possibly as a Unique. NOT the movie version, PLEASE!)
Storm - Callisto
Cyclops - Magneto ~or~ Mr. Sinister ~or~ Stryfe ~or~ Apocalypse (he deserves somebody!)
Phoenix - Mastermind (WOW - how about a Dark Phoenix with Brotherhood team ability? Sure it was really the Hellfire Club Mastermind was hanging with at the time but I don't complain when New Mutant & X-Force members turn up as X-Men either!)
Gambit - Mr. Sinister
Professor Xavier - Juggernaut
WWII Submariner - WWII Human Torch (GREAT idea. Let's make 'em Uniques)
Captain Marvel (Marvel's Original in red & blue) - Thanos (again, Uniques)
Wasp & Ant Man/Giant Man - Whirlwind (not the best of AEs but it's true. Did you know that before he became Whirlwind he was the Wasp's limo driver w/ a crush on his boss?)
Thing - Puppet Master (due to Thing's relationship w/ PM's daughter this is how most FF/PM clashes start)
Giant Man/Yellowjacket ~or~ Vision - Ultron
Elektra - Bullseye (I know WK's just looking for an excuse to make another Elektra)
Black Bolt - Maximus
Longshot - Mojo ~or~ Spiral (they sure have been teasing the heck out of those who want to see Longshot!)
Ms. Marvel - Mystique (Warbird's former persona done as a Unique)

What?! Of course I didn't forget DC!

Superman - Lex Luthor
Wonder Woman - Cheetah
Flash - Professor Zoom (Reverse Flash)
Green Lantern - Sinestro (a regular sized one, please)
Hawkman - Shadow Thief
Atom - Chronos
Sentinel (the ring-wielder formerly known as Green Lantern) - Solomon Grundy
Golden Age Flash - The Mist
Captain Marvel - Black Adam ~or~ Dr. Sivana
Orion - Darkseid
Firestorm - Killer Frost
Red Tornado - T.O. Morrow
Green Lantern - Count Vertigo
Golden Age Superman - Ultra Humanite (Uniques rule!)

...I think that's about it!:)

[A_Higher_Level]

I just feel sorry for the Leader being the arch-enemy of the Hulk. He can't do more than 2 clix of damage, and MC'ing the Hulk will result in him taking 2 clix of damage. It pretty much looks like a lose-lose situation.

[Ozymandas]

AEs can be tricky. It would be nice if you could just let them duke it out until one goes down. In some cases you need to take the AE down a few pegs w/ another character, then move in for the kill with the corresponding AE. Maybe this can be done if Leader is at the beginning of his dial and the Savage Hulk is towards the end of his. I haven't checked the stats so I don't know if the Savage Hulk's works like his IC version's (gets stronger rather than weaker). Either way it's tricky.

[Batman1983]

Great ideas everyone!!!

Thanks for the long list Ozymandas. I only put dracula up because Dr. Strange destroyed him years ago (as far as I know). The only problem is that the following probably won't get redone:

abomination
nick fury (hes already a unique)
doc oct (totally ignored by wizkids in CT, not that I'm complaining)
thing & puppet Master (overlooked list for now)
gambit (maybe they'll do a U Cyclops AE of Mr. Sinister??)
Juggernaught (could have been in the overlooked list)
Mojo or Spiral (both uniques probably won't come out again)

I'm with you on why, but the above are highly unlikely.

I also think the bases for Daredevil are the same. I'm thinking that if the spidey is Ultimate GG AE then its supposed to be Ultimate Spidey, so I don't know if these will overlap.

Thanks for the DC too. The only overlap there is Hawkman, solomon Grundy, & Darkseid. However there are always house rules.

Finally as for Leader you pair him w/ Abomination & let Abomination do most of the damage. Then Leader can shoot hulk off his last click.

[Thomthemonk]

when i read the subject line i thought you were suggesting that all Marvel chars should be AEs to all DC chars, which would be neato.

[Batman1983]

no though that is an interesting thought Thomthemonk

[Melkoloran]

It's disappointing that they couldn't continue AEs across expansions. If I'm using IC Daredevil against Bullseye, the AE is in effect. If I'm using XP Daredevil against Bullseye, it's not (assuming that the colors of the rings are different).

That just isn't logical.

[Ghost_Rider]

The colors*are*different. It's a fact.
Ghost

[Soro]

Daredevil should definitely be opposite kingpin

bullseye opposite elektra.

ultron and Giant man (if he's ever made)

invisible woman and Psycho man

definitely cap and redskull

as well as black panther and klaw

and in my opinion hobgoblin was stupid only the green goblin can be spidy's nemesis.

thor and Loki

storm and mystique (they had something of a rivalry in the day)

cyclops and sinister definitely

how bout Dazzler versus enchantress they fought a couple times

punisher and jigsaw

maybe uniques of rougue and Ms Marvel from when they fought over rougues body (each one looking half dead)

maybe a lilandra to fight deathbird

and just cause i'm a spaceknight fan, ROM versus VOLX the dire wraith queen

[Ozymandas]

I know many of mine are dupes but I was just saying that they were overlooked. Many can still be done. Just because we have a Unique Nick Fury doesn't mean we can't get another U or R/E/Vs. Just look at Spidey, Wolverine, Elektra, etc.... Unless WK plans on wrapping it up say, 2 Marvel expansions after XP, we'll be seeing many more duplicates before they're through.

I read elsewhere that XP's DD & Hand have red bases, whereas IC's are tan. Looks like AEs don't span expansions.

Marvel vs DC is always fun. I'd start a thread but I thnk I'd rather wait to see who will actually be in it first.

[Ghost_Rider]

The new Daredevil has sort of a reddish brown base.
Ghost

[Batman1983]

I'd want to make a Bullseye/Ninja team to take on either daredevil. Its just silly if they said there can be multiple AEs then not have them. I still hold that both daredevils are bullseye's(or Hand's) AE. I'm just not sure if Bullseye is Hand Ninja's AE. From a comic stand point I don't know enough.

As for the Elektra <> Bullseye & Daredevil <> Kingpin. They could release a new Elektra (since they will anyway) AE of a new U (read powerful) Kingpin. give them tan bases & you've got the problem solved. Of course Dazzler <> Loki wouldn't exactly work the same.

It would be cool to get a REV Nick Fury (maybe his R version wouldn't be Shield). A new REV Red Skull that was capt's AE would be cool too, but since CT came out I've held to the thought that Baron Zemo will be a new Capt's AE. It would be nice if they released a 10 point Bucky that was Baron Zemo's AE. That would be great!

Your Inv. woman <> Phycho man made me realize that Mr. Fantastic might just get stuck being the AE of every FF Villian big enough to be an AE. It won't matter much I guess since hes not a popular piece unless you are running an FF team. On a similar note I think each member on the Inhumans (if they are all FF) will be interchangable with diff. FF clicks. Black Bolt may replace V Thing or V Mr. Fantastic (depending on points) & Gorgon might replace E Thing.... & so on.

So many suggestions for Giantman's AE, but if hes a big fig then I say that he will be MOE AE (like sentinel<> Mutants). This will encompus Ultron, Yellow Jacket, & so on.

Hobgoblin may not have been the best choice, but like someone (azs on his Nightmare review) pointed out Nightmare seems like a strange choice for Dr. Strange (not his exact words). The only reason that I think Doctor Octopus was "overlooked" was the fact he (like DC's Penguin) wasn't always fighting Spiderman (Batman) or hatting him.

I'm not sure if Two face or Ra's Al Ghul will be Batman's new AE. Two face just because Bruce always has tried to help Harvey Dent (I mostly read pre-crissis Batman even though I'm younger, so I'm not real current w/ 1989-2001 Batman continuity), but there has been that other side to both of them constantly fighting. Ra's is perhaps a given, but who knows. I just hope its not Penguin.

Superman could get a Outwit-crazy Lex Luthor AE or a uber-powerful Mr. Mxyzptlk Unique or Bizzaro (as a weaker Supes w/ perplex & CCE instead of Leadership).

Reverse flash or Capt. Cold for Flash. If you want to go back a few years you could do the Trickster first, but I think if there are more than 3 DC sets (which there should be) then he could get all 3 as AEs.

Aquaman NEEDS Ocean Master as an AE. Just cause he needs someone to take out that people will play.

New one could include:
(ozymandas beat me to these, but some are obviously needed)

Wonder Woman - Cheetah
Green Lantern - Sinestro reg size or Count Vertigo
Atom - Chronos
Captain Marvel - Black Adam ~or~ Dr. Sivana
Firestorm - Killer Frost
Green Lantern - Count Vertigo
he had some more, but you've probably read his thread)

here are some more:
(new) Steel (in CPriest-run suit)<> Hazard or Scorpio &/or Dr. Villian
Orion <> Kalibak (since their dad has been done)
Martian Manhunter <> White martians (like Daredevil <> hand) or Vandal Savage (go read JLA Task Force)
Promethius <> JLA (well he could have a rainbow dial Grey,orange,blue,yellow,green?,??,???)
Amazo (giant?) <> JLA (rainbow only if hes not a big fig)

[Sassmatic]

A good one I'd like to see is a Blade Vs Deacon Frost AE.

That'd be cool.

Either way I'd say we should be seeing some new Blade Characters in the next marvel set.

[younginfluenti]

what about angel and apocolypse.......or collosus v omega red(they even had different view towards teh mother land).......or how about a superman batman pair.........

ps.I WANT GLADIATOR

[VenomDaBomb]

AE i want to see



Venom Vs Carnage

Silver Surfer Vs Thanos(with infy Glt)

Fantasic 4 Vs Glaticus

Wolverine Vs Cyclops!!!!!!!

Punisher Vs Jigsaw

bone Wolverine Vs Cyber

that is all

[Soro]

y know rival hereos WOULD be a goo ideawolvie and cyclops don't really work because they ALWAYS work together but how about

Wolvie and Hulk
Hulk and THING
Spidy and wolvie

[Batman1983]

I totally forgot about Venom <> Carnage. I was going to explain (its really not as complicated as it will look) how I'd handle this situation. If wizkids made them Spidey AEs then it could go like this.

Spidey (IC) <> Hobgoblin
Spidey (XP) <> Green Goblin (separate because of ultimates line)
Vemon REV <> REV Carnage
Vemon RV <> Spidey (IC) (E has Spider team ability to represent his hero time)
Carnage <> spidey (IC)

But its easier for Venom & carnage to be separate AEs

[Batman1983]

a half purple (hulk) half light blue (wolvie) base to represent Hulk <> Wolverine

[Ghost_Rider]

Originally posted by Batman1983
I still hold that both daredevils are bullseye's(or Hand's) AE. I'm just not sure if Bullseye is Hand Ninja's AE. From a comic stand point I don't know enough.

The new Daredevil is only archenemy to both Hand Ninjas and NOT Bullseye anymore. It makes sense because Bullseye sometimes works with the Hand. I dont understand why you "still hold" that both versions of Daredevil are archenemies with Bullseye though. The new base is reddish brown. It's a *different* brown. I'm not saying this as an opinion, but 100% truth.

Ghost

[Batman1983]

ok ok I'm sorry I just don't see wizkids rational. I believe that you saw it I was just holding out hope that its just an off color or something & they'll make an adendum. I'm not intentionally knocking you Ghost. Ok so they probably won't make an adendum, but it doesn't change putting hand w/ bullseye to kill Daredevils just have to be careful who kills who.

[KaiserSelroc]

From characters having the wrong AE, to characters who frequently work together prevented because of AE status, the AE system has just been a mistake from the very beginning.

[bizzaro]

Originally posted by KaiserSelroc
From characters having the wrong AE, to characters who frequently work together prevented because of AE status, the AE system has just been a mistake from the very beginning.

I'd disagree. It's cool in a multi player battle a wolverine character gears up and pushes to take out sabretooth ... its still a good concept.

I don't understand why the two different spidermen have different bases though ...hobgolblin ...green goblin (yes I know he's ultimate) .... did hate each other.

I'm hoping to see a Omega Red/Wolverine/Sabretooth AE triangle ..give Omega Red a light blue base!