View Full Version : Wizkids playtesting process and U Elektra
Wizkids has obviously been playtesting Xplosion for a while now. They have also been having volunteers outside the company playtesting as well. Over on the official forum, we've learned that Chapeau has yet to resolve many of the questions that will arise from the new Elektra's MC + 2 lightning bolts. If this is the case, how the heck was Elektra playtested? When the playtesters used her, what rules did they follow? There are a bunch of unresolved questions that could seriously impact her value.
malchyor
03/06/2003, 13:28
i don't know that they are unresolved. MC with two bolts means 2 MC's. at least that's what was stated in the judge's forum by chappeau a few days ago. the only limit i saw was that the combined point values of the targets counted towards the 1 click of damage per 100pts of MC'd targets.
before somebody brought the whole two bolts thing to my attention, i hated this fig. now with the possibility of 2 MC's per turn, it actually makes her worth the 160 cost.
strange that the most powerful mindcontroller turns out to be a marvel second stringer.....
I'm going to take her off of that dial and put Prof. X on it. Out of all the Marvel Universe, he should be able to mind control 2 people at once. I'm going to send him out into the battle field and let him mess some people up. GO PRO X!
Ghost_Rider
03/06/2003, 13:38
Yes, there is no problem. You can Mind Control two targets.
Ghost
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see where all the confusion comes from. :confused:
If you take all the prior rulings about MC, and dual attacks, toss in some rulings from Flurry and you've pretty much got the whole thing covered.
Using a dual attack, both attacks are rolled as 1. So you make your roll and lets say you hit both. Ok, now you're controlling 2 figs who, according to MC rules, are both friendly. (Because you're resolving both attacks together as 1.)
Now look towards Flurry rules and figure that to make two attacks (or look at running shot to make a move and an attack) and the actions are resolved seperately.
Ok, so you've got control of 2 figs. Before any attacking takes place, you get to use those figures' outwit or perplex. Choose a figure to make an action first and resolve that action.
Then resolve an action with the second figure. If you haven't used outwit or perplex yet (only between these 2 figs) do so.
End their action.
If they total more than a hundred points, give Elektra a click.
Elektra's action ends.
Basically it boils down to: for the duration of ELEKTRA's turn both of these figures are on your team and the regular rules for actions applies (except they don't come out of your action allotment for the turn).
It's really not that complicated.
The Stinger
03/06/2003, 13:54
That's what I was thinking too, but Im just a player, no judge. And in uncertain matters concerning the rules, Ive learned its best to keep my mouth shut unless Im positive.
Well put azs.
DS-00-0, FSD
03/06/2003, 13:59
azs,
I believe the real issue (at least in my mind) comes from the damage issue.
From the FAQ:
The damage is 1 click for each _full_ 100 points. If the target is less than 100 points or if the attack is unsuccessful, the Mind Control figure won't take any damage.
Every line of the FAQ for Mind Control deals with the affects of a target (singular). If it said "target(s)" then there would be no issue. Whether you add their point cost togetehr or not seems to be the central issue (again, to me anyway).
Whoa.... Am I missing something? I thought Elektra was Daredevil's on-again, off-again romantic interest/Greek Assassin/sexy martial artist in red? When in the comics did she gain mind control? Or is this some 'other' Elektra from Marvel comics?
Spidersense
03/06/2003, 14:11
Her mind control comes from her being a manipulator and getting you to do what you hadnt planned on doing. An assassin could plan things so that her target would divert from a regular schedule or such so that they would be in a more prime kill zone. Dont look at it as actually taking over someone's mind, but look at it as a manipulation power. Pretty neat if you ask me.
Azs, the basic problem is this: multi-arrow attacks are supposed to be simultaneuous (Energy Explosion, for instance). Flurry is supposed to be consecutive (take a click for critical miss before second attack). Now the two are mixed, and I don't think this has happened before. You can't just "toss in" the rules for Flurry. A similar question has come up before on the official forums, with regards to Flurry/TK/2 arrows, but I don't believe it was offically resolved.
Until now, multi-arrow attacks have resolved simultaneously. That is impossible now. One of the MC'd figures will have to go first. How is that determined? Are the two figures friendly to each other? Can they taxi each other, or use the Shield ability, or Enhancement? If they are friendly to each other, and can taxi, can Elektra MC Wasp and Firelord, make Firelord carry Wasp out of Elektra's range and sight, and then give Wasp an action? If Elektra MC's Blizzard and Boomerang, and Blizzard goes first and Pulse Waves, do Boomerang and Elektra take their clicks before Boomerang does his action? If this kills Boomerang, does the second MC never happen? And if 3 R Psylocke's pump up Blizzard's damage, and his Pulse Wave kills Elektra, does the second MC fizzle?
The most important questions are, are the two characters friendly (I assume so), and who goes first? Is it the MCer's discretion?
Chapeau ruled yesterday or the day before on the WizKids judges forum that you simply add the values of the two MC'd targets together, and Elektra takes however much damage that would be. For example, if she MC'd a fig with 139 points, and a fig worth 70 points, that would be 209 points total and she would take 2 clicks of damage.
I'm sure this issue came up in playtesting, and Chapeau responded to it as quickly as it came up. So relax, the sky isn't falling yet. ;)
Originally posted by Spidersense
Her mind control comes from her being a manipulator and getting you to do what you hadnt planned on doing. An assassin could plan things so that her target would divert from a regular schedule or such so that they would be in a more prime kill zone. Dont look at it as actually taking over someone's mind, but look at it as a manipulation power. Pretty neat if you ask me.
Ummm, actualy, it has nothing to do with that. In the Elektra: Assasin mini-series, she had Mind Control and other funky ninja mojo. It is none of this ability to manipulate others, it was striaght out mind control.
Spidersense
03/06/2003, 14:23
Originally posted by Dexceus
Ummm, actualy, it has nothing to do with that. In the Elektra: Assasin mini-series, she had Mind Control and other funky ninja mojo. It is none of this ability to manipulate others, it was striaght out mind control.
Ok, my bad, I never read it, but I like my explanation better.:D
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Azs, the basic problem is this: multi-arrow attacks are supposed to be simultaneuous (Energy Explosion, for instance). Flurry is supposed to be consecutive (take a click for critical miss before second attack). Now the two are mixed, and I don't think this has happened before. You can't just "toss in" the rules for Flurry. A similar question has come up before on the official forums, with regards to Flurry/TK/2 arrows, but I don't believe it was offically resolved.
Until now, multi-arrow attacks have resolved simultaneously. That is impossible now. One of the MC'd figures will have to go first. How is that determined? Are the two figures friendly to each other? Can they taxi each other, or use the Shield ability, or Enhancement? If they are friendly to each other, and can taxi, can Elektra MC Wasp and Firelord, make Firelord carry Wasp out of Elektra's range and sight, and then give Wasp an action? If Elektra MC's Blizzard and Boomerang, and Blizzard goes first and Pulse Waves, do Boomerang and Elektra take their clicks before Boomerang does his action? If this kills Boomerang, does the second MC never happen? And if 3 R Psylocke's pump up Blizzard's damage, and his Pulse Wave kills Elektra, does the second MC fizzle?
The most important questions are, are the two characters friendly (I assume so), and who goes first? Is it the MCer's discretion?All your questions are summed up *and* answered in the last paragraph of my post:
"Basically it boils down to: for the duration of ELEKTRA's turn both of these figures are on your team and the regular rules for actions applies (except they don't come out of your action allotment for the turn). "
. An assassin could plan things so that her target would divert from a regular schedule or such so that they would be in a more prime kill zone
This seems more like outwit and is just making excuses for a flawed design. No Elektra should be 160 points. Does a 200 point Boom-Boom seem accurate? How about 18 point Hulk? This has more to do with fanboy hype than any comic series.
A Hawk-Eye with 0 damage and multi-shot. A Superman that bounces off walls instead of busting through. Juggernaut missing charge? Wizkids should do a better job with playtesting and character design concept, at least on certain figs, and some kind of power-scale should be observed.
The game is fun but it doesn't resemble the comics that inspire it. I suppose its randomness does, comics and logic just don't mix. One issue Spiderman can press 10 tons the next issue its 50, ok
Who goes first?
Also
We now have confirmation of the earlier ruling allowing a figure such as Elektra to use Mind Control on multiple targets, as well as the first clarification on the special circumstances which come with that ability. As updates become available, they will be posted here for public viewing.
HeroComplex posted that on the official board, along with a quote from Chapeau ruling on the combined points of the targets being used for the damage. I'm not too concerned about these rulings, more curious as to how, if at all, the rules were used during playtesting. HeroComplex implied that there are unresolved questions, and if Chapeau doesn't have answers now, how could they have had them during testing?
Originally posted by gen-x
The game is fun but it doesn't resemble the comics that inspire it. I suppose its randomness does, comics and logic just don't mix. One issue Spiderman can press 10 tons the next issue its 50, ok
I for one don't care who it is or if it is an accurate representation of the comic figure. That's not always possible to easily replicate. All I know is that there is a 160pt figure in xplosion that gets mind control and can do multiple range attacks. For all I care the figure itself could be Puppet Master on an acid trip (hence the perplex) dressed in leather on his way to a fancy dress party, toting a big gun and ninja sword.
I'm a bit disappointed that the point values of the controlled figures are added together as that will limit the use of it, but it's a logical approach as Elektra isn't excerting her mind to control one figure at a time, but two at once.
I for one don't care who it is or if it is an accurate representation of the comic figure
You must work for Wizkids :) , however, I don't really that much either.
Playtesting ???? (...falls about laughing...)
Oh, sorry, Critical Miss, not the Wabbit mallet, NOOO
(Thwack. Crunch)
---of course the being previously known as Noman believes that wizkids rigourousley playtest the product using those best suited for this task and that any sugestion that it is done on a comparative "what seems a good idea at the time" basis is clearly not representataive of the actual effort put in by a vast number of tireless unsung heros...HOWEVER< FIRELORD IS 15pts UNDERCOSTED...(Thwack. Crunch)...in umm, no way whatsoever---
U Electra - brilliant figure, lovely stats, write the rules guys...
Yours till the better rulebook,
LoL
All the Best
Noman
(oh, and Chappeu, post to THESE boards, it's where we all are...)
Originally posted by gen-x
This has more to do with fanboy hype than any comic series.
Actually, I think it's more Marvel/WK pushing her than fanboys. I never heard anyone sitting around the comic book store complaining that there hasn't been a new Elektra out in a while, or that Elektra isn't powerful enough, or whatever.
She's not even second string. Daredevil is second string. She's a second stringer's love interest with a lame, lame backstory.
(And before people get on me, yes, I liked ELEKTRA: ASSASSIN but mostly because I love that artist.)
As someone else said around here somewhere, Elektra is a second tier character Marvel really really wants to be first tier.
She might not be popular rigth now, but at one point in time, say around the time Elektra: Assasin came out, she was HUGE. They were releasing something for her everytime you turn around.
And considering that she is going to be getting her own movie, she will probably get that popularity back.
And this clix is very accurate to that mini-series.
skeevo666
03/06/2003, 21:53
Marvel is definetely pushing Elektra.
I was in the grocery store the other day; as I went through the dairy aisle, I happened to espy a package of those little cheese sticks you eat by hand. It had a Marvel promotion printed on the bag. The characters featured were Spidey, Hulk, Cap, Wolvy and, yup, you got it: Elektra ;)
GroovyBoy
03/07/2003, 00:36
Gen-x, you really had to read the Electra:Assassin series before applying that argument (which is very valid in some circumstances) to this figure. There wasn't a whole lot Electra COULDN'T do. She was stopping bullets with her fingers. If Thanos had made a guest appearance in the thing, it would've been as a parking valet. Now, is eight issues that portray a hero as radically different than they normally are justification enough for an uberfigure? Seeing as we're dealing with a genre which continually goes over the top, making the Unique doesn't insult my comic sensibilities. But hey, I also wanna see a U of Thor as a frog.
Did I say that my sensabilities were insulted? What I'm stating is that her character concept doesn't seem to be proportionate to the other marvel characters or her usual self, that's it. From what you posted it looks like you agree.
I would also add that I don't think she reflects the Assassin series accurately, but this is just opinion. Wasp carrying the Hulk and not vice versa. A Superman that can't break through walls. Even the designers stated medics are far more prominent in game compared to the comics. Face it, inaccuracy is in the game so what, I still enjoy it.
I think that people who can't see the major differences between character interpretations are kidding themselves. Some people see Spiderman with supersenses or strength and some don't. Wolverine can't heal some damage then he can.Its basically the series writer or figure designer, not any kind of simulated or following logic.
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