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billthomason
03/06/2003, 23:03
Hey all, I have a #### near invincible team for you to check out. In a 300 point game, you play with what I feel is the best character in any three marvel sets, Vet Dr. Doom. He is the core of your team, obviously. The key is minions. You play with two taxis, Rookie Vulture, and Rookie Wasp. Then fill up the rest of your team, should be like 53 points or so, with thugs, shield and hyrda operatives. I had 3 rookie thugs, one vet thug, one rookie hydra operative, one rookie shield medic, one experienced shield sniper, and a henchman or a shield trooper of some sort. Anyways, fill out your points with as many guys as you can. Be sure there are at least a few shield though.

Here's the strategy. Rooftops are the best, but I discovered this team can work anywhere. You position your team in a square or rectangle formation with Doom, Vulture and Wasp in the center. Make sure Doom has access to at least one shield guy. Then, with Doom's running shot, whenever someone comes into his enormous ten range, you running shot carrying either vulture or wasp. With perplex, you can increase damage, attack, or even movement range so he can running shot 5! (rounds up remember). Then once you decimate whoever was foolish enough to come within range of fire, take wasp or vulture and fly Doom and his taxi right back to the center of your army where they came from. This strategy will piss off your opponent something fierce, but it works very well.

I have played with it several times, recently in an indoor setting against two of my friends (who obviously teamed up against me.)
While it was very close at times, I ended up destroying 570 points worth of their guys, including V - Dr. Strange, Human Torch, Professor X, Rogue, LE Wolfsbane, R - Cyclops, E - Shield Sniper and more, never having lost Dr. Doom. In fact, Doom only took two clicks of damage in the whole game, and one was from me pushing him.

Doom's powers are immense. As long as you keep someone near him at all times to take his damage from Mastermind, he cannot be hurt (almost, i'll get to that). You can even deflect it onto one of his taxis at times, since you have two of them. Add onto that perplex, and he's #### near unstoppable. What finishes it off making me believe he is unbeatable, is Explosion. If your enemny is ever foolish enough to group two or more of his soldiers together, he will pay dearly for it. By carrying a shield agent with you or having one nearby, and perplexing his attack or running shot, you can inflict an immense amount of damage. I almost wiped out an entire Xmen team in one shot in my last game with this, dealing four clicks to each by adding shield team ability. (He has two lightning bolts remember?).

Don't fret if you lose mastermind, because then you go to invulnerability. Its not terrible. You no longer have perplex either, but you still do 3 clicks of damage with a pretty powerful attack and movement. Hopefully you'll still have a shield guy nearby. It can also be useful to drag along Hydra operatives to increase his attack.

I have never been damaged enough thus far playing with this team to lose invulnerabilty. But once he does, he gains willpower, which will make your opponent even more frustrated as you destroy his team every turn by pushing Doom without dealing him damage.

Ok, some of you out there have been saying since the beginning, Veteran Ultron. It is bitter irony that one of Doom's great powers, Explosion, is also his downfall. Explosion is the only thing that can destroy this Doom team. Only Veteran Ultron can take it apart. However, the only way that Doom can be damaged by Vet Ultron is through indirect Explosion damage, i.e. he explodes lackeys in front of Doom who deal splash damage which he cannot redirect with Mastermind because he is not a target. But, if you see Vet Ultron lain on the board when you set up, simply put Doom out in front of your army. It is more risky, but then you can beat Ultron.
He only has invulnerability and explosion for three clicks. There is a chance against him you will lose half of your army quickly, but by the time that happens, Ultron will no longer be a threat, maybe even dead as you chip away at him with Doom.

The only other power that would be annoying is Mind Control. But honestly the only two who get pull it off are Vet Controller and Vet Professor X, both quite expensive. Controller only has it for a few clicks, while X has a very low attack after he receives a bit of damage. Even if they do use mind control, simply keep Doom in the back of your army, and he will be out of range. Simple as that.
What if they use Ultron and Controller on the same team? Then you may be in for a bit of trouble. At this point, you're going to have to put two rows of lackeys in front of Doom to prevent him from gaining any explosion splash damage and keeping out of sight of mind control. You're armies gonna get destroyed pretty fast, but hey, Ultron and Controller together are over 250 points. You should be able to knock them both down to a point where they wont hurt Doom to much and they wont have any one else left to come after you.

So there you go. Think up all the possibilities you want. With the exception of Explosion and mind control, which you can avoid if careful, this team cannot be beaten. Give me any thoughts you have, and team you can create, and it will be demolished. I mean come on, I took on two 300 point teams at once and won only losing two clicks of life. Even the new Savage Hulk (201 point monster) will be nothing to this team. Try it out and you'll see how great it is, athough none of your friends may want to play with you after a while because they can't beat you. Doom is THE best there is. Everyone let me know what you think. Email me or PM me or simply respond.

Dr. Bill

The Stinger
03/07/2003, 02:00
Great Writeup!

Im going to test your theory, and try to devise a team that could stop Doom and company.

I have Vet Doom, but I rarely use him. Given his vast array of powers, I dont know why I dont use him more often.

Back later with some thoughts on how to stop this team.

Heimdall
03/07/2003, 06:13
Hi!

Aren't you afraid of Teams with Black Panther who outwits your Mastermind. I think even with a pure Avenger team (i usually play heroes-only or villains-only teams) i could wipe this team out. But if i am allowed to mix villains and Heroes like you do it seems a lot easier. Maybe i would even think about MC and would take: White Queen (exp.) or Moondragon! I would also think about giving you some taste of a good pulse wave supported by shields, which will also avoid your Mastermind.

Heimdall

jamie madrox
03/07/2003, 10:50
u cant perplex explosion damage or boost it with shield medics

uuoolly
03/07/2003, 11:21
Jamie you are half right.

You can't perplex EE damage, but you can use a S.H.E.I.L.D. team ability to increase it.

You can also perplex the attack value of an EE attack. (not the damage, but the 'to hit')

Like Heimdall said Outwit is your downfall.
Off the top of my head:

27 pt Panther, 36 pt Mandroid Armor, 66 pt Doc Oc, 120 pt She-Hulk and 51 pts of whatever else you like.

and that's just one idea.

One of the best things about heroclix is no team is near unbeateble. You can be competitive with so many different combos. This will only increase as more Figs come out.

Wool

TheFallenOne
03/07/2003, 11:23
YOU STARTED THIS THREAD AGAIN!!!!! JUST LET IT GO MAN.

Insaniac99
03/07/2003, 11:37
Originally posted by jamie madrox
u cant perplex explosion damage or boost it with shield medics

well i will have to check aobut the perplex, i KNOW you can boost the damage of EE with the shield figures, but in this scenario you can only boost the damage up to a maximum of 4 (base 1 plus three by winning leadership rolls)

there is a few other teams that can defeat that set up, Outwit will do it, Energy explosiong or pulsewave will do it, they can barracade you off if they want, anothing Running shot/dual running shot will work

i will have to think of more, it is a good team but nowhere near undefeatable.

Psylockeslover
03/07/2003, 11:40
Just off the top of my head:

3x V Gambit (Stealth, EE, Perplex)
3x E Psylocke (Stealth, Enhacement)
21 pts. left for a taxi or whatever.

Maybe drop 1 Psylocke for more maneuverability or medics.

Just a quick thought...

Phantom
03/07/2003, 14:35
Outwit will crush you. I fail to see how you can hope to thwart my Ultimate Cheese Team:

R Black Panther
V She-Hulk
Moondragon
R Mandroid
V Black Cat
V AIM Medic

She-Hulk and Moondragon make the ultimate Fastball Special team. Panther can Outwit anything Doom has, the AIM Medic is the best in the game, and the Mandroid lets me either Shield-pump Moony’s damage, chuck an object at one of those weak throwaway characters you have for 2-3 damage, or fling Moony into Mind-Control range of Doom and just have him thrash himself and his team by doing an EE multishot attack of all of those lovely henchmen next to him, possibly splashing onto himself.

The Stinger
03/07/2003, 15:24
You can only outwit Doom if you have LOS to him.

If you read how his formation is set up, Doom is in the middle, with Lackeys and such in front of him, and taxis at his sides. It will be tough to get LOS, especially on an indoor map.

The EE and pulsewave strategies should work pretty well though.

Fuzzy
03/07/2003, 17:55
Killing whoever is standing in front of Doom will be about as easy as destroying a square of Barrier.

The Stinger
03/07/2003, 21:33
Originally posted by Fuzzy
Killing whoever is standing in front of Doom will be about as easy as destroying a square of Barrier.

YOu only have 3 actions. 4 if you have leadership.

So you move to get in range, with a taxi, and take a shot at Dooms lackey. 2 actions right there.

Get Bp to where he can see doom. avenger free move is a possibility. Outwit something. Yay!

You have one more action to do what you want.
Now, Doom's turn.
Doom is going to use something bad on whoever was in range to kill the first lackey. Perplex, Running shot, something.

He'll most likely Runningshot with a shield guy in tow, and bust someone for bad bad damage. Wasp taxis vulture up with a free move, and Vulture flies doom back behind another lackey so once again, you dont have LOS with BP.

Keep up your cycle this way and Doom will have your team dead before you even attempt an attack on Doom himself.

CaptainOutwit
03/08/2003, 12:32
Your team idea is a good one (I used a similar hit and run strategy with Annihilus and Doom just yesterday), but I think you're forgetting about medics. One thing your team severely lacks is mobility; If I run halfway across the board to a medic, you can't follow me without *badly* exposing Doom. My strategy of choice would be either the aforementioned Energy Explosion (followed by a mad dash for my medic to offset Doom's retaliation), or simply to taxi in Firelord, quickly off one of your minions, then once again go back to a medic. I may never kill Doom, but I'll continue taking away his Mastermind minions at a rate of roughly one every four turns. Either I'd win on points, or eventually decimate the group badly enough to get a shot at Doom himself.
Another idea: TK an object right next to your little cluster and set Batman in it. If you destroy it, it remains hindering terrain, so you're forced to engage Batman in close combat if you don't want him methodically destroying all of your minions. If you do engage him, since you can't use Running Shot on a stealthed character, goodbye hit and run and hello Firelord.
Do you think you could counter those strategies, Stinger? Let me know. I'm always eager for an educational comeuppance.

trutildeth
03/08/2003, 13:13
(3x) V- Bullseye
(3x) V- Doombot
R- Black Panther
E- AIM Medic
R- Shield Medic

296 pts

Doombots = Freemoving-Leadership taxis that mimic AIM ability to boost Bullseyes' AV to 12 Spread the team to cover the width of the board (and to avoid maximizing EE damage) with their range of 10. Dr. Doom should have to come into range of at least two of the bullseyes (on an outdoor map) who can then hit with RCE (bumped by Shield) for a total of 8 clicks of damage. V- Dr. Doom won't last past the fourth round. Black Panther's outwit keeps Victor from masterminding or later removes his invulnerability.

jamie madrox
03/08/2003, 17:26
i use e doom with doombots and shield medic and panther it works its fun ee rules.

Liquid Havok
03/09/2003, 03:23
The no dupes rule that we use woul deliminate a coupl eof those teams mentioned. The Doom team is a good strategy, thanks.

Liquid Havok
03/09/2003, 03:26
If you focus on the taxi's this strategy would be severly weakened, at a price of course. Also if one were playing a mixed team my Bat Team would destroy Doom and his buddies, stealth and outwit are this Doom teams enemies......

Liquid Havok
03/09/2003, 03:39
One last thing why not just throw in Skrulls to make Doom even harder to hit? Better than thugs anyway.....

spiderboy
03/09/2003, 04:11
No line of sight for Black Panther to outwit? Well then,what i would do is put Black Panther on top a building,where he would definitely have line of sight unless you're team is on top a building. And Liquid Havoks idea about using skrulls is a good one. You should use it.

CaptainCarl
03/09/2003, 04:53
how about this team

102 V doc samsom
81 E firelord
15 R vulture
33 E wasp
31 E shadowcat
11 R con artist
27 R black panther

hmmm.....

3 taxis for firelord doc and panther

taxi panther in for LOS to doom if lacky in the way ill get to that in a sec

taxi doc in with vulture so he can perlex his attack up and hit a front line minion and KO him
this will leave line of sight to doom which can be outwitted now
now firelord can be taxied in to hit doom for 5 damage which wont be to hard to hit due to mopheads high AV

dont worry about dooms suportnot to much damage can be done

and if you need a medic take out con artist and put in E paramedic worth 10 points youll be at 299

make sure doc is by a taxi so its hard to break away

out wit doom again if he leaves firelord and panther both have taxis and one moves for free hit again for 5 doom takes another 5 cya doom thats 10 clicks in first 3-4 turns if doom player doesnt turle to much

i like your team but their ways to get around it i do play one bruiser and one ranger for diversity so i didnt make this team up just to pick yours appart this is usually my style of playing

but no worries would love to play against your team it would be challengeing and fun

thecaptain

WarUlt
03/09/2003, 08:04
After pulling V Doom a few weeks ago I was eager to try him, but found he just wasn't worth his cost. He takes up too much of a 300 hundred point team. His first 4 clicks are monster, but after that I find he is very easy to defeat. Anyone who bases him prevents him from fleeing to heal, and he only has 100 pts. to fight with, making mopping up easy.

spiderwoman490
03/09/2003, 09:28
I know a lot of people don't use EE without shields but you can get good use out of him if your opponent forgets, plus a little luck on your roll! I hit four figs on a rooftop with box cars! Thats two clicks for critical hit then two more for knocking them off the roof! Can you say LUCK! It was great! These kind of surprises is what makes this game so interesting!
:p

arsuf476
03/09/2003, 10:18
another option in e or v boomerang, with ee and mutilply arrows but alot cheaper then doom or ultron, his attack is too low to hit doom but not the minions. taxi him in with a pushed dr strange for enhancement, keeping strange out of los for doom even after rs and hit the lackeys, might kill a few. doom hits then run to healers. and you still have close to two hundred points to play with, so plenty left over to deal with doom himself and some taxis for your big hitter (maybe U wolvey, or shehulk V).
i think that would do it, and it would be a versatile team that could face others with some sucess.

greg_wolf
03/09/2003, 12:44
that sounds like a good team but there is a flaw. i played my friend and he used that strategy. I still beat him. I did it with the asgardian god of thunder thor. Thor took that team apart with the help of cyclopse and logan. Also where are the doombots. If you use doom you should use doombots.

Psylockeslover
03/09/2003, 21:21
How about this one:

U-Nightcrawler 83pts.
R-Jean Grey 31pts.
V-Gambit 51pts.
R-Iceman 26pts.
R-Pyro 27pts.
R-Destiny 20pts.
R-Mystique 34pts.
R-Conartist 11pts.
2x R-Paramedics 16 pts.

299pts.

Basic strategy:

Use Gambit and Mystique(and Conartist) to perplex Nightcrawler's damage up. TK him forward with Jean. Have him run up, attack(preferably a taxi, but whatever is handy), and run away to cover. Use Pyro to throw up a barrier. (keep the group separated to prevent EE)
Turn 2: Push NC to run back next to Jean. Move Conartist. Use Iceman to throw up a barrier.
Turn 3: Push Conartist. Use Jean to heal NC. Use Pyro to throw up a barrier.
Turn 4: Perplex NC's damage. Push Jean to TK NC. attack w/NC. Barrier w/Iceman.

Repeat as necessary....

scowlingone
03/09/2003, 21:43
Originally posted by Phantom
Outwit will crush you. I fail to see how you can hope to thwart my Ultimate Cheese Team:

R Black Panther
V She-Hulk
Moondragon
R Mandroid
V Black Cat
V AIM Medic



There's nothing cheesy about that team at all. It's brutally effective (I won a 300-point tourney last week with a very similar team) but it contains no cheese.

PsychoDBoy
03/09/2003, 21:54
Was just wondering...didnt I reply to this one already? It's not that invincible of a team to warrant another posting of the team/strategy....:rolleyes: