The Final Word!

[normalview]

Have you ever wanted to know exactly how a certain power was supposed to work? Maybe you haven’t played with a Colossal character before and you want to check out what all they are supposed to be able to do before GSX drops. Or you just can’t remember if that one issue with that one character who has that one weird trait was ever resolved… yeah, that happens to everyone from time to time. And sometimes the Player’s Guide is behind a firewall and you try searching the ‘realms but none of your search terms really seems to get the right information… it can be very frustrating.

Thus enters the Final Word (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=227) sub-forum.

[normalview]

Now some of you may have already seen it and know what it is all about, but for the rest of you, here is the run down. This forum, which will be a sub-forum of the Rules of Combat we all know and love, will contain a few different types of information:

First, there will be a Parking Lot (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299295) thread. Issues currently being discussed, or otherwise up in the air, will be listed here (potentially with tentative answers, too). As these issues are definitively resolved, they will be removed from the Parking Lot and transferred into the next type of information you’ll fine in this sub-forum…

The character/power/feat/special object/etc. specific posts. There will be one, and only one, thread devoted to each specific topic. If you want to know more about how Leap/Climb works, for example, there is a thread for that power (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299294) and you won’t need to search through dozens of other maybe-sorta-kinda-related threads to find your information. Have questions about a specific character’s special powers or traits… Avengers #036 Falcon (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299293), perhaps? The information is there with a clearly labeled thread title for ease of reference. As issues are resolved in the Parking Lot, those issues will either be added to the appropriate existing thread or a new thread will be created if it is a completely new issue.

Third, there is a temporary thread called Getting more "Final Words" (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302797). As you may have noticed, there really isn’t a whole lot of information in this sub-forum yet. While we do have our own plans for adding more topics and information, we’re also not omniscient and we sometimes forget stuff… so that’s where you come in to the picture. Most of the threads in The Final Word will be locked. We’re doing this so that your “go to” location doesn’t become cluttered with people raising follow up questions and other people answering with things that cloud the issue. Those questions should be asked in the Rules Forum and, where appropriate, we’ll update The Final Word accordingly. But we also want people to have the ability to alert us to the need for new Final Words (whether it’s something we’ve neglected or we just haven’t gotten to that character on our own yet). For example, we know a lot of you are clamoring for clarification on Larfleeze and, in fact, ChiRocker’s excellent compilation (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297276) of all things Larfleeze was one of the reasons we created this sub-forum. So we will make sure Larfleeze gets a Final Word. But if there are other characters, powers, maps, and such that you think should be added, here is your chance to let us know.

Fourth, and finally, there is another temporary thread called Outstanding Issues (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5325143#post5325143). From time to time, some of you have mentioned that this or that issue has never been fully resolved and that you have, in fact, collected a list of at least a few of these issues. Well, let’s see ‘em! This thread will be the other open thread in the sub-forum and you can post any and all issues you think have not been sufficiently addressed and/or forgotten over time. However, I do want to point out that this thread is NOT a place to post your desire to have us rewrite your own personal pet-peeve power (Outwit will still require LOF even when adjacent to the target character no matter what you post here). But if there was some question about the way a certain power worked a few months ago and the issue seems to have fallen to the wayside since then... THAT is the kind of thing we are looking for in this thread.

So go forth and read the Final Words that are currently there and feel free to start suggesting other topics. Also, please continue to ask questions in the Rules of Combat; while the Final Word is to be resource chock full of information, there will invariably be questions you have that aren’t covered in the Final Word. And if those questions do not have a clear answer, they’ll end up being added to the Parking Lot and eventually made part of the Final Word.

I have one question for all of you: what do you want to know more about?

[golden]

Awesome idea, love this.

[shanbo83]

well for your final question, i would like to know more about mastermind such as being able to push off mystic damage, psychic blast damage and pushing damage. but i guess i need to go look for that myself first.
and off of the subject i think this is an awesome idea just hope some folks don't ruin it for everybody.

collossal rules are always a good thing to have handy yet never seem too since they aren't used as often. i know we have updated players guide but if i point some of my friends in that direction they get slammed with so much information so quick they lose track of what they were looking for in the first place.

[mermaidmurder]

this is great

[Quebbster]

well for your final question, i would like to know more about mastermind such as being able to push off mystic damage, psychic blast damage and pushing damage. but i guess i need to go look for that myself first.
Yeah, that is really not an "outstanding issue" as the ruling is clear and supported by the rules (Pushing and Mystics cannot be transfered as both are unavoidable damage, Psychic Blast can be MMed but remains penetrating). FW is really meant for issues where it could go either way, though some FAQ-esque posts may show up there too.

[eagletsi]

Great Idea! Keep up the good work!

[scehaono]

just a clarification, are you planning on having separate threads for each special power? (ie, dc 75 larfleeze Orange constructs, dc 75 larfleeze orange lackeys and dc75 larfleeze summon the orange lantern corps) OR just one thread for dc 75 larfleeze?

edit: phe-nominal idea!

[disguy]

I love the idea. I also like some of the suggestions here. Although explaining why power interactions work, or how Leap / Climb and Charge work together and how they don't should probably be in a "noob's corner" (I'll be there).

[normalview]

just a clarification, are you planning on having separate threads for each special power? (ie, dc 75 larfleeze Orange constructs, dc 75 larfleeze orange lackeys and dc75 larfleeze summon the orange lantern corps) OR just on thread for dc 75 larfleeze?

If it is something specific to THAT character (AKA trait, special power), it would all be covered under that character's entry.

So, for your example, Larfleeze would have one entry called DC75 #043 - Larfleeze and that one entry would contain all relevant information on his trait and special powers.

[specialmagic]

Excellent! Sounds like a great idea!

To your final question: I think Wonder Woman's Calvary Charge would be nice, as I have read conflicting rulings from rules deputies.

Thanks!

[normalview]

Excellent! Sounds like a great idea!

To your final question: I think Wonder Woman's Calvary Charge would be nice, as I have read conflicting rulings from rules deputies.

Thanks!

So go post that in the Outstanding Issues thread ;)



Seriously, guys, we (nbperp and us deputies) can and will be adding stuff as we get to it and many of the issues you are probably thinking of are things we are also thinking of... but maybe not. Maybe you've got something else on your mind that we've either forgotten about or think we've already covered sufficiently (but you still have questions even after it has been covered). So post those kinds of questions in threads I mentioned above. At the risk of sounding cliched, help us help you :)

[switch21]

I think this is awesome. Thanks!!

[RSIxidor]

Fantastic.

[specialmagic]

So go post that in the Outstanding Issues thread ;)


Done! :cool:

[specialmagic]

Done! :cool:

Or maybe not. I posted it, but then it disappeared. :noid:

[shanbo83]

Yeah, that is really not an "outstanding issue" as the ruling is clear and supported by the rules (Pushing and Mystics cannot be transfered as both are unavoidable damage, Psychic Blast can be MMed but remains penetrating). FW is really meant for issues where it could go either way, though some FAQ-esque posts may show up there too.

oh i see. well thanks for the answer though i see the difference now as being unavoidable and penetrating

[normalview]

Or maybe not. I posted it, but then it disappeared. :noid:

That's weird.

Sending you a PM now.

[Carados]

Brilliant!! Great idea guys. A+

I'd make sure outsiders, perplex, defend and stuff like that gets covered. I've seen it messed up so often.

Maybe like a "what can be used with what". So we dont get people charging off elevated with leap-climb, and no more exploit weakness/blades/flurry issues.

[Quebbster]

Or maybe not. I posted it, but then it disappeared. :noid:

Do you see it now?

[ChiRocker]

I answered this in a PM, but I figured I would post it here too. Feel free to use anything and everything from the Larfleeze Answers thread.

[Alpha-Omega]

Not sure if this is ok to ask or not, as I usually just get blasted when I try to post anywhere here, but I was wondering if you were going to link to this new final posting all that had been posted before? in an aside kind of statement it could only help you get info on stuff posted quicker and it would not require any added write ups that way. Some of the previous posts found here actually have been well written and very informative along these lines.

[Questions]

Third, there is a temporary thread called Getting more "Final Words" (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302797). As you may have noticed, there really isn’t a whole lot of information in this sub-forum yet. While we do have our own plans for adding more topics and information, we’re also not omniscient and we sometimes forget stuff… so that’s where you come in to the picture. Most of the threads in The Final Word will be locked. We’re doing this so that your “go to” location doesn’t become cluttered with people raising follow up questions and other people answering with things that cloud the issue. Those questions should be asked in the Rules Forum and, where appropriate, we’ll update The Final Word accordingly. But we also want people to have the ability to alert us to the need for new Final Words (whether it’s something we’ve neglected or we just haven’t gotten to that character on our own yet). For example, we know a lot of you are clamoring for clarification on Larfleeze and, in fact, ChiRocker’s excellent compilation (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297276) of all things Larfleeze was one of the reasons we created this sub-forum. So we will make sure Larfleeze gets a Final Word. But if there are other characters, powers, maps, and such that you think should be added, here is your chance to let us know.

Fourth, and finally, there is another temporary thread called Outstanding Issues (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5325143#post5325143). From time to time, some of you have mentioned that this or that issue has never been fully resolved and that you have, in fact, collected a list of at least a few of these issues. Well, let’s see ‘em! This thread will be the other open thread in the sub-forum and you can post any and all issues you think have not been sufficiently addressed and/or forgotten over time. However, I do want to point out that this thread is NOT a place to post your desire to have us rewrite your own personal pet-peeve power (Outwit will still require LOF even when adjacent to the target character no matter what you post here). But if there was some question about the way a certain power worked a few months ago and the issue seems to have fallen to the wayside since then... THAT is the kind of thing we are looking for in this thread.

I know I asked in a different thread, but I still don't understand the difference between "Getting more 'Final Words'" and Outstanding Issues. I'd like to use these resources properly, but I have no idea what the difference is between the two threads.

Seriously, guys, we (nbperp and us deputies) can and will be adding stuff as we get to it and many of the issues you are probably thinking of are things we are also thinking of... but maybe not. Maybe you've got something else on your mind that we've either forgotten about or think we've already covered sufficiently (but you still have questions even after it has been covered). So post those kinds of questions in threads I mentioned above. At the risk of sounding cliched, help us help you :)

Any chance the rules posse could post the things on their minds in The Final Word forum. You mentioned that there are issues you are aware of, however I'm only seeing 6 issues in the Parking Lot. Is that every issue that the rules posse has on their list? (I ask in large part because it's going to take work to put together any type of list. If you list up the issues you are already aware of, it helps all of us as a group.)

[normalview]

Not sure if this is ok to ask or not, as I usually just get blasted when I try to post anywhere here, but I was wondering if you were going to link to this new final posting all that had been posted before? in an aside kind of statement it could only help you get info on stuff posted quicker and it would not require any added write ups that way. Some of the previous posts found here actually have been well written and very informative along these lines.

I am not 100% sure what you are asking for... what exactly do you mean by stuff that had been posted before?



There are a lot of ruling already in the Player's Guide (if that's what you are asking) and there will be likely some pretty significant overlap between the PG and the Final Word threads just due to the types of issues and questions raised, but I don't really know if that is what you are asking for. Could you please clarify your request?

[normalview]

I know I asked in a different thread, but I still don't understand the difference between "Getting more 'Final Words'" and Outstanding Issues. I'd like to use these resources properly, but I have no idea what the difference is between the two threads.

Outstanding Issues are exactly that: outstanding questions and issues that haven't been addressed in a sufficient manner. These things will then be added to the Parking Lot as necessary. I know for a fact that you are one of the guys that talks about lists, so let's see it.

The "Getting More Final Words" is for stuff that has a clear answer (whether in a forum post or PG) but is still a complicated enough issue or frequently asked enough that it is something people would want to search for/read about in the Final Word forum. Answers that are already set in stone, if you will, but aren't necessarily at everyone's finger tips or very well known.

Any chance the rules posse could post the things on their minds in The Final Word forum. You mentioned that there are issues you are aware of, however I'm only seeing 6 issues in the Parking Lot. Is that every issue that the rules posse has on their list? (I ask in large part because it's going to take work to put together any type of list. If you list up the issues you are already aware of, it helps all of us as a group.)

We will add stuff as we have the time. At the end of the day, please recall that we are all volunteers here and have other responsibilities outside of Heroclix and HCRealms.

If you've already got a list, then post it. If there is overlap between our lists or other's lists, so be it.

[normalview]

Or maybe not. I posted it, but then it disappeared. :noid:

As an updated, it seems that with the way the forum has currently been organized, new posts from will need to be approved by a moderator before they will be visible.


We're working with the site admin to see if that is something that can be changed, but in the mean time, please keep posting to Outstanding Issues and Getting more "Final Words" and they will be approved as fast as the moderators can get to them.

[Shatter006]

That Rule about Falcon having to break away, after his special charge? Some how that seems wrong with him being a flyer and ignoring characters as he is moving. I always took his special charge as a weaker form of hypersonic. Anyone else see it that way or am i crazy and power hungry...lol

[Top10]

Brilliant!! Great idea guys. A+

I'd make sure outsiders, perplex, defend and stuff like that gets covered. I've seen it messed up so often.

Maybe like a "what can be used with what". So we dont get people charging off elevated with leap-climb, and no more exploit weakness/blades/flurry issues.

Maybe like a "what can be used with what". - this sounds good if its possible

Normalview seems like someone who would be awesome to work around. He's not going to do a poor job and he will be meticulous with wording.

[specialmagic]

Do you see it now?

Yep, both of my attempts now appear. :cool:

It's like a double post, but phrased differently for weird effect! :squareeye

[Questions]

That Rule about Falcon having to break away, after his special charge? Some how that seems wrong with him being a flyer and ignoring characters as he is moving. I always took his special charge as a weaker form of hypersonic. Anyone else see it that way or am i crazy and power hungry...lol

I'm with you, but it has nothing to do with Falcon being able to use the Flight ability. The rules indicate that a break away is needed when a character is given an action and attempts to move. When Falcon is midway through his Fly-By, he isn't given an action (he was already given one before) so no break away roll should be required. The really weird part is that the ruling you reference and the ruling regarding carrying characters actually conflict with each other. But looks like we're stuck with this one.

[Alpha-Omega]

I am not 100% sure what you are asking for... what exactly do you mean by stuff that had been posted before?



There are a lot of ruling already in the Player's Guide (if that's what you are asking) and there will be likely some pretty significant overlap between the PG and the Final Word threads just due to the types of issues and questions raised, but I don't really know if that is what you are asking for. Could you please clarify your request?


All previously asked questions and posts about the rules topics you are supposed to be covering with this new post.

[normalview]

All previously asked questions and posts about the rules topics you are supposed to be covering with this new post.

That would be pretty much impossible. To get every question ever asked about every game effect or character would put such a glut of information in that forum that it would basically defeat the purpose of the forum (ease of use).

And given that answers can, and do, change as rule sets are released and things get tweaked, a lot of those questions would be irrelevent anyway.


I can guarantee you that the information that is found in that forum will be the most current and up to date info. If you want something more, perhaps you can give a specific example of exactly what you are looking for?