HeroClix Online

[WizKidsNECA]

<img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Hcol.png" width="200px" align="left" style="padding-right:5px">Greetings HeroClix Players and Fans!
WizKids is pleased to announce that we will be working together with HCRealms on a very exciting project. This is an exclusive opportunity we’re offering you, our player community, to participate in a very exciting Beta test of the upcoming HeroClix Online game platform.[...]

We will be announcing details on how you can participate in the HeroClix Online Beta soon. Thanks! - Typhon

[Read More on WizKidsGames.com (http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2011/03/10/heroclix-online/)]
<img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HCO-Screen-Shot.jpg" width=225px"><img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HCO2-300x231.jpg" width="225px"><img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HCO3-300x231.jpg" width="225px"><img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HCO4-300x231.jpg" width="225px">

[Blue_Shield]

Super excited about this!

[Munchoboy]

Super excited about this!

Totally agree. :classic:

[Typhon]

It's going to be a very busy weekend for about 500 members. :) If you see me online; please be gentle. LOL!

[SQuigley316]

Wow, the one pic looks amazing. Even better than I had any hope for. I can't wait for this.

[broodwarjc]

They still haven't mentioned price. Is it a one time buy fee, virtual boosters, pay per month, pay per figure?

[Bloodsword]

How do you get into the beta? I did not see that mentioned. Or am brain farting and missed it.

[pepper]

Wow can we get this as an iphone app? ;)

[lashelton1990]

how do i get to be part of this beta testing team?

[Dragon_Rose]

Nicey Nice!

[SpaceGhost]

I also would like to know how to get into the beta testing and if we can get this on iPhone (in a few months).

[maelstrom2005]

From the looks of it "That is the Hammer of Thor Map~Very Nice!" Now I'm getting excited to see this game in a virtual perspective!

[mike_houghton]

OMG Please oh please oh please let me in :) I will play all weekend and give greattttt amounts of feedback

[MattPetersen]

Cool!!!
Maybe I'll get lucky and will be able to beta this thing!

[DarthPezley]

I would love to beta test for this.

[jbship628]

I really want to test this out. I have to drive quite a distance to play live, and this will be a really great way to get to play!

[DarthPezley]

I really want to test this out. I have to drive quite a distance to play live, and this will be a really great way to get to play!

There are quite a few venues pretty close to me, but this will definitely help with testing figures and teams in a non-competitive format!

[Trypswitch]

Wow
Wow
Wow

I was skeptical but the screen shot alone has me wicked excited.

[Typhon]

I will be announcing details on the selection process in the morning. In the meantime; you can "Opt-In" on your Profile (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile) by checking the "Would you like to participate in the HeroClix Online Beta?" checkbox. We won't pick anyone who isn't opted in ... so go do that first. :)

[rwint1968]

Looks awesome!

:cool:

[Crow]

Looks like there will indeed be virtual collection farming, based on the list of "non-game features". Well, they gotta make a buck, but I know plenty of people who will keep their bucks in their wallets over that issue.

The 3-D interface looks nice. Rule enforcement is nice (and unexpected - that must be a pain to program for all the special powers). It's obvious the figure set will be limited to the ones they coded.

I'll happily try this, but I have reservations...

[Noah Towns]

Sign Me up. I'm sick of this one game a week thing. I will play this every single day.

[BalladBird]

id love to play this, cant wait!

[JDub]

They still haven't mentioned price. Is it a one time buy fee, virtual boosters, pay per month, pay per figure?

This part:

"Non-Game Systems – Collection Manager, Trading, Store, Chat, Auction House and Match Making system"

makes it sound like virtual boosters.

[Thunderkat]

This is AWESOME! Hope I can get to help beta test this. Can't wait to try it out!

[Pepsirox08]

I definitely 100% need to be a part of this! This beta looks very promising and needs to succeed!!

[Blue_Shield]

They've added four new pics to the site.

[Blue_Shield]

Gah! The doubler.

[Pepsirox08]

I definitely 100% need to be a part of this! This beta looks very promising and needs to succeed!!

To add on: Looks like Call of Duty will be taking a break! Heroclix Online EVERY DAY!!!

[JRS4]

I will be announcing details on the selection process in the morning. In the meantime; you can "Opt-In" on your Profile (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile) by checking the "Would you like to participate in the HeroClix Online Beta?" checkbox. We won't pick anyone who isn't opted in ... so go do that first. :)

Done!!!


Can't wait this looks awesome!

[HappyTrain]

I'm on a Mac, but I opted in anyways. It makes me feel included.

[scotimus]

Man I'd love to get in on the beta for this. Also is there any solo playing? Can I create a team and test it against a computer controlled player?

[Cruftworld]

Agree w/ scotimus.

I have a serious request for anyone who beta-tests the software.

If it has an AI option --- i.e. you can play against the computer --- pls PM me or post about it in this thread. If it has varying difficulty levels, please post that too. That's the one feature I am hoping for so so badly. If it has that i don't care how many virtual boosters i have to buy.

Currently i sometimes ... play heroclix .... against myself ...

at home ...
on a little Batman Alpha map ...
it is very sad. :sleep:

[Jarosa]

Looks freaking amazing! The figure, the dials, the maps. This is how I imagined I'd want the game but figured no way, there's far too many figures ad maps and stuff for them go into serious detail. I'm so glad I was wrong. I'll probably spend more time online playing than in the store. Plus the level of competition will be critical. Maybe I can find some players who like me love to play real comic match-ups. What if the Avenger went against the X-Men type stuff. FF vs. JLA or League of Doom against the Super Friends.
Not too mention just good old competitive play. The graphics are cool. They mentions sound effects and such. Whe you use energy explosion does it do an effect. Anyone else remember Battle Chess? You'll know Psychic Blast has hit when your character crumbles in pain. Or blocks of the bolt. I can't wait. How do you know if you get a free test run? They said HCRealms right? I'm always on here.

[Pepsirox08]

I have a serious request for anyone who beta-tests the software.

If it has an AI option --- i.e. you can play against the computer --- pls PM me or post about it in this thread. That's the one feature I am hoping for so so badly. If it has that i don't care how many virtual boosters i have to buy.

Currently i sometimes ... play heroclix .... against myself ... at home ... on a little Batman Alpha map ... it is very sad. :sleep:

Checkerboards are slightly bigger...

[superflyMP]

As a new player I'm looking forward to this. I can acquire figures & put together teams but I need practice to get better. I see lots of time logged in my future. I love playing monsterpocalypse on vassal but it doesn't have 3d rainbow bridges.

Going to opt in now.

[Pepsirox08]

Im very curious to see certain things. Namor - Submerged, Flash - Frog Legs, are dice rolls really random?, and any kind of Deadpool animations!

[Cruftworld]

Checkerboards are slightly bigger...

Heh i live in a tiny apartment in shanghai and my table is about 1cm wider on each size than the Stephens Park map. but yes maybe i should check out the chess boards

[Jarosa]

When will we know if we're chosen to test? I'm willing to take off work and spend some serious time on the game. My brother doesn't have an account but will be tag teaming in as well. So you get 2 players for the price of 1 on my account.

[Contingency Plan]

Man, I hope to be chosen to beta test this. The game looks amazing. Love the Rainbow Bridge. The rendering and detail of Volstagg makes a tear come to my eye.

[mike_houghton]

I cant wait to use stealth in that wide open hindering terrain :P Will my character jump in the tree or disappear?

[macewyndu]

I really hope this will be mac compatible. :)

[spike1138]

Will my character jump in the tree or disappear?

Now THAT would be cool with some Hand Ninjas... ;)

[golden]

Oh man, looks great. I'd love to get in on the beta. Is it OSX supported?

[Contingency Plan]

The more that I read the write up, and the more I look at the screen shots, the more excited I am for this. Battle testing teams against friends at any time of the week will be a blessing. I could care less how much it costs.

[Milo Garret]

Wonderful news. This looks pretty sweet! I love the 3D maps

I already see a collision bug. In the third picture the rock troll's head on Volstagg's base is inside the wall.

[Contingency Plan]

Wonderful news. This looks pretty sweet! I love the 3D maps

I already see a collision bug. In the third picture the rock troll's head on Volstagg's base is inside the wall.

Actually, it's his arm that is in the wall. The head is off the map.:laugh:

[Cliffjumper]

Not trying to hate on this because it looks great and I completely understand the marketing aspect as well as taking the game to another level but I think it completely devalues collecting these figures in real life.

For 20 bucks a month or whatever it will cost youve made an 8 year collection and thousands of dollars spent worth even less now for many LOYAL players of the years.

I hope online players dont have access to every figure and they dont "sell virtual figures" either.

Ideally, I think it would be cool if each character card had a unique code to unlock the virtual piece online. That way SRs stay SRs and commons stay common.

[Puuka]

I will be announcing details on the selection process in the morning. In the meantime; you can "Opt-In" on your Profile (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile) by checking the "Would you like to participate in the HeroClix Online Beta?" checkbox. We won't pick anyone who isn't opted in ... so go do that first. :)

Done and thank you.

[mike_houghton]

Not trying to hate on this because it looks great and I completely understand the marketing aspect as well as taking the game to another level but I think it completely devalues collecting these figures in real life.

For 20 bucks a month or whatever it will cost youve made an 8 year collection and thousands of dollars spent worth even less now for many LOYAL players of the years.

I hope online players dont have access to every figure and they dont "sell virtual figures" either.

Ideally, I think it would be cool if each character card had a unique code to unlock the virtual piece online. That way SRs stay SRs and commons stay common.
Rich get richer and the poor get poorer :P I like this idea though

[Darkined]

I am super excited. This gives more opportunity to play and practice almost anywhere

[Milo Garret]

Actually, it's his arm that is in the wall. The head is off the map.:laugh:

Looks like the opposite to me. I see the right arm, a wall sharing the space where the head would be, and no left arm due to it being off the map or maybe just the angle :ermm:.

[WakandaMan]

Wow those screenshots look really nice. Love the 3D rendered map!

[WakandaMan]

What I want to know is, will ti be possible to 'save games' and come back to them later if one of the players has to go for some reason? Generally in the RPSC we play a turn per day, and if that can work with this it would be fantastic!

[The DC Explorer]

Im not even going to play around. I want in on this beta bad. This is amazing.

[The_Sound_Of_Animals]

opted in. just hope Ol' Betsy the compy can run it :)

[JRTasoli]

I wanna beta!!! Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie!! =D

[eliotblacknigh]

If Heroclix online will be 100% operational...I want Hair10 to be my first opponent...:p

[CarlosMucha]

Wow, it look awesome! :)

[The_Sound_Of_Animals]

If Heroclix online will be 100% operational...I want Hair10 to be my first opponent...:p

I am starting at the letter A and finishing with the letter Z. I will play everyone!

[ahtitan]

I would dearly love to beta this. I hope the opting-in is enough to get in the pool, as I work at night and will not be awake to see the announcement in the morning!

[CarlosMucha]

any idea of how this will work once is "finish"?

I mean, you will have to play for play online? or maybe just pay a sofware or pay for fig etc etc?

It will be free? :p :p :p

[Allure]

Lot of news dropping tonight, I look forward to checking this game out when it's released. Till then I hope to read more about it soon!

[hclixinarcadia]

wow, that looks great!

[Timpool]

Excitment! Wow, this looks so much better than i thought it would,

[Axiom125]

Wow, looks amazing! I so hope I can get into the beta at some point.

[spider_ham]

Sign me up!

The GUI looks different from how I imagined it, but I do like the 3-D environment. I'm assuming rotation and zoom are standard controls, and are triggered automatically when a character takes an action.

[DarkLordVerjal]

While it is very nice and shiny with lots of glitz and glam... The idea of having your customers buy 2 different sets of products on 2 separate mediums is borderline insulting. I don't need someone to tell me I can't Charge and CCE, or Running Shot and RCE, I know I cannot because I know the rules.

I don't need to pay for a chat program, I already have Xbox Live chat, Skype, and aim. While it IS indeed nice to have it at the ready for lazy people who don't want to download another program, I myself don't require it and don't wish to pay for something I won't use.

If I want to play a reasonable heroclix online I will use Crow's rather vanilla(and cumbersome) program. Not only because I don't require bells and whistles, but because I've already spent my extra cash on their TANGIBLE HEROCLIX PRODUCTS.


DISCLAIMER*
--This is an opinion based on facts given so far, and in no way reflects my feelings on a final product that is different; UNLESS said program is indeed the same as speculated. As opinions are able to be changed last time I checked, I indeed hope I am wrong.

[biggnnasty]

This is exactly what i was wanting. Looks so amazing. *fingers crossed* for beta

[Doctor Diesel]

I don't need someone to tell me I can't Charge and CCE, or Running Shot and RCE, I know I cannot because I know the rules.

I doubt the game will chastise you for trying to break the rules, it'll more likely just make illegal options unavailable, ie. you activated Running Shot, so RCE will be greyed out after you end your halved movement in a legal square. Considering the amount of questions here regarding compability of powers, I seriously cannot understand an argument against implementing this. By doing this, HCOnline will also make a bigger player base tolerable to play with, because you won't have to correct them all the time.


I don't need to pay for a chat program, I already have Xbox Live chat, Skype, and aim. While it IS indeed nice to have it at the ready for lazy people who don't want to download another program, I myself don't require it and don't wish to pay for something I won't use.

I highly doubt you will be paying for use of that part of the client, so this point is fairly moot too.


If I want to play a reasonable heroclix online I will use Crow's rather vanilla(and cumbersome) program. Not only because I don't require bells and whistles, but because I've already spent my extra cash on their TANGIBLE HEROCLIX PRODUCTS.

I don't think anyone is trying to take that away from you.


DISCLAIMER*
--This is an opinion based on facts given so far, and in no way reflects my feelings on a final product that is different; UNLESS said program is indeed the same as speculated. As opinions are able to be changed last time I checked, I indeed hope I am wrong.
Good disclaimer. I really hope that content in HCOnline can be unlocked by codes or something else linked to physical boosters as well as virtual purchases. As much as I love this game, the table top version is what will be getting my money.

[MercOfTheMap]

3 Words.

SIGN
ME
UP!!!

Been looking for a new online game for months now, can't wait to get a closer look at this!

[Ringer]

i too would love to beta this. looks really exciting to me!

[Nitecralwer24]

mmmmaan that is so swwweet! not what i was expecting, this blew my expectations away! i just hope i get to play my well-loved teams without have to 're-collect' them. though i am glad i didn't try beta-testing this. school's been killing me, and i wouldn't do it justice. or i would lock myself in with the Awesomeness that is HCO!

[dengar69]

is this the same game they asked people to play test a while ago?

[Krueger666]

This is what I've been expecting since day one, when I started playing heroclix. Amazing work in progress, love the screenshots. When we get this, I may as well say goodbye to my social life!

This is great news for us players in Portugal who don't get to play real games that much!

Count me in as a beta tester (for portuguese players) and future addict!

I just can't wait for this!!!!

[SpakSpang]

Not too much information yet, and I am sure even the Beta players won't know information.

In the end, I still only find this a curiousity. I am hoping for 2 options, classic play and enhanced play. I think enhanced play should add enhanced options to play like characters in stealth being invisible and such. This would add alot to the game, and add value to the online version, which as of now is just the exact same game online without the cool collecting aspects.

We don't know pricing, but it sounds like there will be some sort of additional fee for new characters, since they talked about a virtual store...now it all depends on the price and what you are getting to see if the microtransactions are worth it. To me anything other than a single price for a full set is too much for a microtransaction. I would rather Wizkids make its money through tournment fees...but what would be cool is blind boosters in a tournment. An algorithm could be used to create boosters that add up to specific teams and you must use that booster you opened or choice of 3 for the tournament.

I really hope the best for the product...as I think it will be cool...specially if it becomes an Ipad 2 app, and can be played offline with friends, or if there is AI to play a computer. Finally, achievements, quests, and in game challenges or even a puzzle mode (how to beat a character within 2-3 moves) should be added to give the game depth.

If Wizkids only makes this a copy of the table game without enhancing it for the medium I think it is a missed opportunity for the company to expand its brand.

[daerdeletravoh]

Looks way better than I thought it would. I hope I get picked. This could be a new addiction...

[DomaWaltz]

I'll be your bestest friend ever! I must own this!

[Jarimy123]

That is so freaking awesome!

[DaddyDoom]

Also, as cool as it looks I don't know how Online Heroclix will possibly capture the rules nuances of this game. They will have to do a stripped down version (ala Batman Alpha). Otherwise, the programmers will interpret the rules in their code, they will conflict with the arbs, and realms will explode with "This is how this power works online so this is how it should work in real life." Either way, I am not looking forwad to it.

[dreven]

wow. this is insanely exciting. I'm psyched! :)

[nbperp]

Wow that look pretty cool. Hope I can get in on this!

:laugh::laugh:

[eagletsi]

Look cool. I want in

[Jarimy123]

This will ruin heroclix.


In other news, the #1 thing I want to come out of this is more thorough playtesting among game designers/rules arbs. With the cability to play games against each other while living in different states/countries this will, I firmly believe, improve the game design/rules quality of control 100 fold.

[PodClix]

Wow! This looks waaaay better than I was expecting! Hope I get in on the Beta.

I will not mind the purchase of virtual boosters at all.
My only worry is what would happen if I invest heavily in this product for a year with virtual boosters etc, only to have WizNeca pull the plug if it is not going "as planned".
What would happen to our virtual pieces?

That is my only reservation at this point. It is one thing to justify to the wife my purchases by showing them to her.....it is another thing all together to tell her that all the money that I spent on virtual product simply.....vanished.:)

Either way, I am super excited for this, and cannot wait to see how it plays.

:)

[clameire]

nice screens

for me it's the *future* of heroclix

[Munchoboy]

Wow that look pretty cool. Hope I can get in on this!

:laugh::laugh:

You think you're sooOOOoo funny. :p

[PodClix]

Ok....after looking at the Map again for a few minutes, then thinking about the future release of Lotr Clix.

How cool would it be to have Galactus on the Rainbow Bridge, and Gandalf meeting him head on?


"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!"


sweet......

[superman1134]

3-D Screen shots look fantastic. I would really likew to beta test this game.

[Thrumble Funk]

Huh. Interesting.

[Ziran]

Wow that look pretty cool. Hope I can get in on this!

:laugh::laugh:


You worry me!

[rollinsolo]

The only thing that could make me more excited about this is if it came with bacon.

[IceHot]

The 3D maps are impressive.

This could be awesome!!!!

I am not sure how they plan on handling some of the more intricate rules but it will be interesting to check out.

[djtobey]

Is anyone answering the question, "HOW DO YOU SIGN UP FOR THE BETA?"

[RobEng]

Also, as cool as it looks I don't know how Online Heroclix will possibly capture the rules nuances of this game. They will have to do a stripped down version (ala Batman Alpha). Otherwise, the programmers will interpret the rules in their code, they will conflict with the arbs, and realms will explode with "This is how this power works online so this is how it should work in real life." Either way, I am not looking forwad to it.
As long as the programmers, work with the game designers, the rules interpretations would be correct, or at least official, and thus be a benefit as a standard for real world play. I know I have played at events where the judge got the ruling wrong. The online game could be a good de facto information stream for gray-area rules.

[tpchid]

Count me in. Already checked the box in my ID. This thing looks better than what I have been hearing.

[Gargantua]

Love the screenshots with the 3d maps.

How long do we have to test this out? Have they said? When do they need results/feedback by?

[tupakhuisa]

Wooow!! It's look like the paradise!!
I wish I will be selected for the beta test!!

[gawain]

I want to play this really bad, I'm just hoping against hope that I will not have to pay for digital boosters on top of what I already buy. If that's the case, I can't get on board.

[xfdragon]

I haz a BIG happy about this.

My hubby's a judge and usually the one who posts on this thread - think he might want to test the beta...

more lonely nights...

XD

[haymaker]

The only thing that could make me more excited about this is if it came with bacon.

Well played, my friend. I'm excited to see how this turns out - I could really get into this. AI would be nice for times when you can't find anyone to play at 3 AM.

[nbperp]

As long as the programmers, work with the game designers, the rules interpretations would be correct, or at least official, and thus be a benefit as a standard for real world play. I know I have played at events where the judge got the ruling wrong. The online game could be a good de facto information stream for gray-area rules.

This has been one of the most challenging aspects of the project. Justin's terms to me was that the "you can play poorly, but you can't play wrong." I'll admit I was daunted by that instruction, but the programmer team has done a phenomenal job. To be sure, it's still beta. There are things that will need to get better. But it is a heck of a project to participate in.

[Jarimy123]

IMO this will gradually, not instantly, GREATLY reduce the amount of grey areas, mistakes with powers/abilities, and the all around general "icky" feeling players get when figures/powers make it into our hands with pretty glaring mistakes.

Given this tool the playtesters, game designers, developers, and rules arbs can get in on a play test game ANY TIME. That is ridiculously powerful tool in a game like clix.

[ChiRocker]

I am completely ecstatic about this =]]]]]]]]]

[hclixinarcadia]

This has been one of the most challenging aspects of the project. Justin's terms to me was that the "you can play poorly, but you can't play wrong."
And then people will see that last year's World's runner-up didn't play incorrectly but rather, played poorly and finally not only give the champion, his just due but stop getting on the case of the judges who ruled it the same way the computer would... which is: 1. Metron moves to carry Thing (legal) 2. Outwit Shazam (illegal) so he has to pick a different action none of which includes move Metron and Thing back to the starting area and redo.

Edit:
I can imagine future World Championships with moves that get entered into HCO for verification and then the whole match being broadcast online or on a big screen... wow, wouldn't that be something?

[greateljuice]

this is epic

[Ouchmaker]

Ok....after looking at the Map again for a few minutes, then thinking about the future release of Lotr Clix.

How cool would it be to have Galactus on the Rainbow Bridge, and Gandalf meeting him head on?


"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!"


sweet......

Then Galactus ignores Gandalf for a while, eventually incinerating him in one go.

[nbperp]

And then people will see that last year's World's runner-up didn't play incorrectly but rather, played poorly and finally not only give the champion, his just due but stop getting on the case of the judges who ruled it the same way the computer would... which is: 1. Metron moves to carry Thing (legal) 2. Outwit Shazam (illegal) so he has to pick a different action none of which includes move Metron and Thing back to the starting area and redo.

I can certainly say that working with HCO has made me a MUCH more articulate player in describing to my opponent what I've been doing.

Not that anyone notices :tired: They just seem to expect it of me :cheeky:

Edit:
I can imagine future World Championships with moves that get entered into HCO for verification and then the whole match being broadcast online or on a big screen... wow, wouldn't that be something?

You just need to tell the dice in the game to roll the same way as the players in the game.

[Kamakura]

This looks pretty sweet. I'd love to see an AI in the game we can test teams against.

[DarkLordVerjal]

"Squeaky wheel buddy, squeaky wheel..."

--Booster Gold, The Greatest Story Never Told.

I am both honored, and shocked I was invited. I look forward to playing with members on this forum I wouldn't have had the chance to do before.

Though this doesn't necessarily change my feelings on the money aspect of it from an earlier post, doesn't mean I cannot enjoy it and hope for the best when it's released.

[biggnnasty]

"Squeaky wheel buddy, squeaky wheel..."

--Booster Gold, The Greatest Story Never Told.



Love this line. That episode of JLU was amazing.

[iceman243]

You just need to tell the dice in the game to roll the same way as the players in the game.

Actually, I'm kind of hoping to avoid my traditional crit miss on my opening attack where I have found the weak point in my opponent's setup and can cripple their team while only needing a 5 to hit.:laugh:

[robertrageson]

I'm glad everyone is excited about the game. Remember the more support the players show it the more support the developer will put behind it. More maps, more figures, more content!

[RobEng]

This looks pretty sweet. I'd love to see an AI in the game we can test teams against.
Have they made any indication that AI/computer opponents will be available? This will be a big challenge.

[jackstar7]

Have they made any indication that AI/computer opponents will be available? This will be a big challenge.

What I've read thus far is no AI. The game will be a matchmaker.


In my head designing an AI for Heroclix would require at least something on the level of a "Watson" given the variables and options.

[siwulab]

is anybody up for a game in the other heroclix online right now?

[Lobozo]

Sign me up... I have been hinting to the wife that I need a new vid.

[Cruftworld]

all the gamers here in shanghai (all 7 of us) are really hoping for a key but no one has one yet! arrrgggg we are burning in frustration