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SLVRSR4
03/23/2011, 17:43
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80851/HCRealms.com/201103/deepdishmanhunter.jpg" class="imageleft" />Welcome back to DEEP DISH THEMES! For those of you who are first time readers, what I do here is take one figure and examine all versions of it and give you an in depth look at all of the things that make that character either great or horrible and all steps in between.

I grade things like keywords, team abilites, range, targets, dial, point value, and even a current estimated monetary value of the figure. I rate the figure on a five star rating system and average out the ratings at the end to give you my overall evaluation of the figure. I try to look at the different ratings from the perspective of the average player and, by that, I mean someone who doesn't have every single figure and maybe has to pick and choose what versions of characters that they want to pick up.

I then delve even further each character with an overall synopsis of each figure and what role or roles that it may play in your games and/or theme teams. I wrap it all up by suggesting several comic accurate and keyword accurate theme teams that you can use the week's selected character in and give my pick for each one.

Giant Size X-Men was just released last week, but let's take a step back from the new hotness to examine one of DC's most powerful characters. Though he has never enjoyed the limelight like the Trinity, he is DC's most consumate team player. Of course, I'm talking about the MARTIAN MANHUNTER.

SLVRSR4
03/23/2011, 17:44
Martian Manhunter
Set: Brightest Day Action Pack
Rarity: N/A
Keywords: Brightest Day, Detective :star::star:
Team Ability: None :star:
Range: 6 :star::star:
Targets: 1 :star:
Point Value: 158 :star::star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $5 :star::star::star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal810184811184710174121017310101739916399162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO:star:- Detective of the Dead: If an opposing character is KO'd during your turn, Martian Manhunter can use Exploit Weakness, Outwit, and Probability Control until the beginning of your next turn.

This version of the Manhunter is one of the most solid to date. His stats are very consistent and don't suffer any major drops in effectiveness. His powers will make him more of a short range sniper at first if he can find some hindering terrain to park him in to remain in stealth. you will, of course, have to push him to guarantee that he lands on his first click of stealth and Psychic Blast, but it is totally worth it as he only gets more effective while remaining better protected by doing so. He becomes a mobile monster on the last half of his dial when he gains hypersonic speed. He is a little more tender at this point without the impervious, but he should still hold his own, and at just a tiny bit past half of your point build, he's completely worth it.

Other players' comments/reviews: http://hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5305906#post5305906

Overall Rating: 3 :star::star::star:'s

Martian Manhunter
Set: Brave and the Bold
Rarity: Rare
Keywords: Justice League International :star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: JLA :star::star::star:
Range: 8 :star::star::star::star:
Targets: 1 :star::star::star:
Point Value: 202 :star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $4 :star::star::star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1010174910173910174991739916499165891638101531010144KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO:star:- Martian Manhunter can use Shape Change and Phasing/Teleport
Damage - Telepathic Invisibility: Once at the beginning of your turn, you may choose close combat attack or ranged combat attack. Martian Manhunter modifies his defense by +3 against the chosen type of attack until the beginning of your next turn.

I was on the edge of several of his ratings. He only has one target, but he has a better range than his Brightest Day starter set counterpart, so it helps balance him out. His defense numbers aren't as high, but he has Shape Change that can't be outwitted for the entirety of his dial. He never has to worry about making a sucessful breakaway due to either his opening Hypersonic Speed or his phasing/teleport that is also on every click due to his trait. One of the best powers he has is his Telepathic Invisibility. I have personally kept entire teams at bay and the Manhunter protected with just this power. He is an overall package that just works well. Plus, he has the best nickname out of all other versions of him: Cookie Monster!

Other players' comments/reviews: http://hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5225979#post5225979

Overall Rating: 4 :star::star::star::star:'s

Martian Manhunter
Set: Brave and the Bold
Rarity: Chase
Keywords: Black Lantern Corps :star:
Team Ability: None :star:
Range: 8 :star::star::star::star:
Targets: :star::star::star:
Point Value: 187 :star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $68 :star:
Dial: :star::star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101017410917410918310818311101651191741091639916381016379153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO:star: Power Levels Rising: Whenever an opposing character is KO'd within 4 squares of Martian Manhunter, you may heal Martian Manhunter of 1 damage.Speed - Decaying Embrace: Martian Manhunter can use Plasticity and Phasing/Teleport. Whenever an adcajent opposing character fails a break away roll, deal that character 1 damage after the action is resolved.

It's really hard to judge him. Personally, I love him. He's one of the best Martian Manhunters. What hurts this figure the most is the lack of heavy damage reducers, the unreliability of some of his stats, and of course his rarity. He does feature toughness for the majority of his dial which will be hopefully enough to keep him alive long enough to make use of his great Trait, the regeneration, and the steal energy. If properly supported, he could easily be more trouble than what your opponent is ready for.

Other players' comments/reviews: http://hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5328345#post5328345

Overall Rating: 2.5 :star::star:'s

SLVRSR4
03/23/2011, 17:44
Rookie Martian Manhunter
Set: Origin
Rarity: Uncommon
Keywords: Detective, Justice League of America, Police :star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: JLA :star::star::star:
Range: 6 :star::star:
Targets: 1 :star:
Point Value: 114 :star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $3 :star::star::star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal99164810164891638915389153781427814267132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This is our first real taste of a Martian Manhunter that is built to be part of the team instead of the tentpole of the team. He's got consistent damage and attack values and only takes up a little more than a third of your team build, but at the same time, there are choices out there that are more cost effective or potent on a Justice League team. If you are putting together a Police team, though, he is probably going to be your heaviest hitter and will allow for plenty of other boys in blue to be added to your force. His biggest hinderance is the limited 6 range and only a single target.

Other players' comments/reviews: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4729506#post4729506

Overall Rating: 3.1 :star::star::star:'s


Experienced Martian Manhunter
Set: Origin
Rarity: Rare
Keywords: Justice League International, Justice League Task Force :star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: JLA :star::star::star:
Range: 6 :star::star:
Targets: 1 :star:
Point Value: 167 :star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $5 :star::star::star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101016491016499153891538915389153891437813288132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

I was perhaps a bit more generous with a few of his ratings than I should have been since keywords like Justice League Task Force don't really do much for him. However, at only a little over half of your point build, we are seeing the return of the more Tentpole like Martian Manhunter. This one is the consumate team player, though. His Damage powers consist of some of the best support powers in the game. He has a lot of move and attack powers which are not essential to victory, but they sure don't hurt! He is a great example of a centerpiece that gives back to his team instead of just reaping the benefits that they give to him.

Other players' comments/reviews: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4777287#post4777287

Overall Rating: 3.4 :star::star::star:'s


Veteran Martian Manhunter
Set: Origin
Rarity: Rare
Keywords: Detective, Justice League, Police :star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: JLA :star::star::star:
Range: 8 :star::star::star::star:
Targets: 1 :star::star:
Point Value: 218 :star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $7 :star::star::star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal11111741010164910164109153891538915389163781637817378173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

He's pretty much better all around than any of the other two Rookie or Experienced versions of him from Origin. He has a higher range and better offensive options as well. He is quite costly at 218 points so it's not going to allow much in the way of teammates, but he is quite a bruiser and can hold his own with a minimal amount of support in a 300 point game. I would personally push him off the first click to get him to his Hypersonic Speed clicks. It will also help him to get to damage reducers instead of the often unreliable super senses. Interesting fact. Martian Manhunter is one of the world's most powerful telepaths, yet this is one of only two versions that actually have mind control. It comes late in the dial, though, so I would be hesitant to use it in case you incur recoil damage from it. No need to damage your centerpiece figure unnecessarily.

Other players' comments/reviews: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4761434#post4761434

Overall Rating: 3.7 :star::star::star:'s

SLVRSR4
03/23/2011, 17:44
Detective John Jones
Set: Origin
Rarity: Limited Edition
Keywords: Detective, Justice League, Justice League International, Justice League of America, Police :star::star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: Police :star::star::star:
Range: 6 :star::star:
Targets: 1 :star:
Point Value: 144 :star::star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $10 :star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal791621010173810163891638915378153781527714267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This version offers basically what you've come to know and love about other versions of the Green Guy, but this one just comes off as the "Watered Down" version in my opinion. He is the only version to offer a team ability that isn't the JLA, though, so if that is what you're looking for, don't hesitate to grab this version. The price has cooled on him significantly over the years. There was a time that you couldn't find him for less than $30 but now he is only $10. For the price I would go for a different Martian Manhunter personally. There is no denying that the all clear version isn't one of the cooler looking figures, though.

Other players' ratings/comments: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5305367#post5305367

Overall Rating: 3 :star::star::star:'s

Set: Cosmic Justice
Rarity: Unique[/B]
Keywords: Detective, Justice League of America, Police :star::star::star::star:
Team Ability: JLA :star::star::star:
Range: 6 :star::star:
Targets: 1 :star:
Point Value: 177 :star::star::star:
Current Estimated Value: $10 :star::star::star:
Dial: :star::star::star:
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1010163101015381015389153891438914378143781437813377133KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Back in the day I would make countless numbers of teams around this guy. Of course, he was the only option at the time so I was just grateful to finally have one of my favorite characters in clix form. He's not bad and still holds up to modern pieces to a degree. He has a full dial of damage reducers, Super Strength and the three damage value doesn't ever quit. The 177 point price tag is a little to much to pay for nowadays, though, and there are better options available compared to what this one offers. If you are deadset on playing this one, keep him in stealth as much as possible and try to get your opponent to come to you. With only a 6 range, though, a good player is going to find ways to strike at the defense value that's too low and get away without allowing a counter attack.

Other Players' ratings/comments: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3559901#post3559901

Overall Rating: 2.7 :star::star::'s


Now that we've reviewed all of the Martian Manhunter figures individually, let's look at what teams they would work best for. There are a small handful of keywords that they have to choose from, and here is the breakdown of who would be the best choice for each one:

Brightest Day: Brightest Day Starter Set Martian Manhunter (Only Choice)
Detective: Origin Veteran Martian Manhunter
Justice League International: Brave and the Bold Rare Martian Manhunter
Black Lantern Corps: Brave and the Bold Chase Martian Manhunter (Only Choice)
Justice League of America: Rookie Origin Martian Manhunter
Police: Veteran Origin Martian Manhunter
Justice League Task Force: Experienced Origin Martian Manhunter
Justice League: Veteran Origin Martian Manhunter

Possible Comic Accurate theme teams to play Martian Manhunter on: Batman's Legion (http://www.comicvine.com/batmans-legion/65-56491/), Justice League of Aliens (http://www.comicvine.com/justice-league-of-aliens/65-45513/), Justice League Unlimited (http://www.comicvine.com/justice-league-unlimited/65-45101/), Outsiders (http://www.comicvine.com/outsiders/65-5704/)

Miraclo
03/23/2011, 17:52
Just gave it a quick read-through. Good job.

The only thing that leapt out at me (and I see I wasn't the only one) was the star ratings given for some keywords/keyword assortments. The one that poked me in the eyes was:
Martian Manhunter
Set: Brave and the Bold
Rarity: Rare
Keywords: Justice League International :star::star::star::star:

I just didn't see how this single keyword rated the same as:
Rookie Martian Manhunter
Set: Origin
Rarity: Uncommon
Keywords: Detective, Justice League of America, Police :star::star::star::star:

...which has three decent keywords.

While I can see it being equivalent to:
Experienced Martian Manhunter
Set: Origin
Rarity: Rare
Keywords: Justice League International, Justice League Task Force :star::star::star::star:
...since the Task Force is such a poorly-represented group so far, I don't see how either rose to the level of 4 stars.

[I'll once again vent my impotent rage at them for being so narrow with these designations, too. Wouldn't the world of Clix be a far better place if these all (at least mostly) had "Justice League" as a keyword? Or if that's too broad and disturbing, at least when it comes to characters like J'onn, Bruce. Clark, Diana, Ollie and Hal, who have been part of variously-named incarnations, given them all of the Justice League keywords they served under. Unless it's some obviously oddball version - Vampire Batman or Sinestro Corps version, for instance - Batman should automatically have the keyword list they gave him in Justice League: Detective, Gotham City, JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Justice League International, Outsiders]

SLVRSR4
03/23/2011, 17:52
To respond to the past two people: I grade things trying to keep things in perspective to new/average players. I also look at how good the character and dial itself will work with the keywords that they have. This is how BatB Martian Manhunter has 4 stars for only one keyword. It may not be a perfect rating scale, but it's how I've done it before.

DemonRS
03/23/2011, 17:52
OK... Sorry anyone trying to post.. I can't figure out the time stamp here..
But.. I think it's fixed..

Owlman
03/23/2011, 17:52
How do you figure out your ratings in each category? You've given out one, two, and even three star ratings for the various ranges of these versions of Martian Manhunter, but it's only one target eac. How does that work?

Also, why did the BatB cookie monster Manhunter get four stars for keywords when he only has one keyword? Is it simply because he has the best dial for the keyword? His keywords really are lacking...



Questions aside, great article. I love reading these.

STUimus Prime
03/23/2011, 18:01
Good article, love the attention to detail. Nice to see Jonn get some attention.
But who do you recommend playing with the different versions?

dkrmguy
03/23/2011, 18:43
Thanks, for another good article.

Cookie Monster is my preferred Martian Manhunter but he is a little expensive.

fastcat99
03/23/2011, 19:44
Very cool! Thanks. It's a good article. I like how price figures in. :)
BatB Martian Manhunter is so great! I think his JLI keyword is worth more stars because you have some really great pieces to build with.
Thanks again! Look forward to the next one.

JOwenR2
03/23/2011, 21:15
How do you figure out your ratings in each category? You've given out one, two, and even three star ratings for the various ranges of these versions of Martian Manhunter, but it's only one target eac. How does that work?

Also, why did the BatB cookie monster Manhunter get four stars for keywords when he only has one keyword? Is it simply because he has the best dial for the keyword? His keywords really are lacking...



Questions aside, great article. I love reading these.

My thoughts exactly, I found it odd that several figures with 1 target got anywhere from 1-3 star ratings, were you going by how usefull the multiple targets would be based on the Powers on the dial?

Great Read though, can't wait to see who is next!

darkjacen
03/23/2011, 21:15
Great article. Weird enough though I prefer BD Martian Manhunter over the cookie monster version. The lack of anything greater than 6 in range hurts early on, but having HSS for 4 clicks straight and regen in the end works. Surprisingly effective for his point value.

Anyway, thanks for the article, I look forward to your next one :)

DrugSex
03/24/2011, 00:36
Really really awesome article! BD Martian Manhunter for the Win!

LittleDragon
03/24/2011, 00:43
I love Martian Manhunter, now I love you for writing the Deep Dish Martian Manhunter Theme.

SLVRSR4
03/24/2011, 00:46
For anybody who finds my ratings a bit...off, I have decided that it is just too hard to do a good rating scale on a 5 star rating. Going forward, I will be doing a 10 star rating system so I can rate a 6 range a little higher than 4 or 5 but less than 8. I think it will allow my comprehensive reviews to be a little more thorough.

Now, that being said, please let me continue to know what you like/don't like and while you're doing that feel free to make a suggestion as to what my next one will be. DC Villain is what I will be doing next!

maddragon13
03/24/2011, 01:51
As usual, another great article SLVRSR4. But, what I want to know is....

... where is the Booster Gold write up that I suggested?!?!?!? ;)


As for my favorite MMs, I've always been fond of Detective John Jones. And the newest BD version is pretty niffty also.

SLVRSR4
03/24/2011, 01:58
As usual, another great article SLVRSR4. But, what I want to know is....

... where is the Booster Gold write up that I suggested?!?!?!? ;)


As for my favorite MMs, I've always been fond of Detective John Jones. And the newest BD version is pretty niffty also.

See, I think that John Jones just seems watered down. Give me Cookie Monster ANY DAY!

Timster73
03/24/2011, 09:26
Another great article. What can I say you bring out the best and sometimes worest in the clix, Hats off. My suggestion for maybe the newer player. If you could add the number from the set for the newbie's this way they know what to look for.

Suggestion for another writeup, maybe do some Teams with point values. using a keyword like Xmen or Justice League. I know it is more for the newbie as apposed to someone who has been playng longer.

Roopie
03/24/2011, 18:57
Thanks for another great article.

Cookie Manhunter forever!

tidge
03/26/2011, 09:52
As a long-time clix player, I’m pleasantly surprised that we have eight versions of this character to use. Martian Manhunter was a mainstay on Justice League lineups from the Silver Age launch of the book to the Didio-EIC era, so I feel pretty free to mix-and-match versions without worrying about sculpts/keywords.

Here are my thoughts on the Martian Manhunter figures, in terms of "Justice League" potential:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I think the best version of the character available for JL teams is the 158-point Brightest Day version. It has solid stats, powers that represent what the character does, and provides a credible powerhouse to JL teams. The sculpt, trait and regeneration may bother some purists, but I don’t find them offensive enough to disqualify use of this figure.

Players uncomfortable with the Brightest Day piece can rest easy knowing that the 202-point BatB “Cookie Monster” is available and is another credible powerhouse. The increased point cost means that tough choices must be made to fit all the figures you may want on a team.

The Origin REV/LE set offers decent pieces, with the only drawback being low defense values for somewhat high costs. I think the rookie (114) and LE (144) are fine figures for JL(I) teams, it’s just that they need more finesse than the more modern versions.

I put the CJ Unique and the Black Lantern chase figures in the “don’t worry about them” category. The original unique has a great sculpt but dull dial design. The chase has an outstanding dial, but the power set doesn’t scream “Super Buddies” to me, and the sculpt is even more off-putting than the Brightest Day variant. Rather than worry about either of those figures, pick one of the other versions and figure out what to do with the extra points.

Off-the-wall suggestion: Ms. Marvel Skrull probably has the best Martian Manhunter dial if you want to play a version of the Grant Morrison team. That dial should play just as Grant Morrison wrote the character: capable of being a total threat, but if you take him out fast he can still be tricky but will not be nearly as threatening.

MantisWarrior
03/29/2011, 11:21
For anybody who finds my ratings a bit...off, I have decided that it is just too hard to do a good rating scale on a 5 star rating. Going forward, I will be doing a 10 star rating system so I can rate a 6 range a little higher than 4 or 5 but less than 8. I think it will allow my comprehensive reviews to be a little more thorough.

Now, that being said, please let me continue to know what you like/don't like and while you're doing that feel free to make a suggestion as to what my next one will be. DC Villain is what I will be doing next!

I think your 10 star rating system sounds like a good idea. As a fairly new player I looked at the (very comprehensive) reviews you did of the figures I own (Origin rookie and brightest day) and then just glanced at the overall ratings of the others to see if i was missing out big-time. All of them have an overall hovering around 3, which plants them all as average on a 5 point scale. A ten point scale may appear to give more significant results in this case 'worst' manhunter at about 4 and 'best' at 6ish. Just be careful not to print all those stars in a line just one star and a number in bold would be a clearer read in my opinion. Anyway thanks again Surfer I love these and really appreciate the effort you must go to. Rep from a newbie incoming...

... or not apparently I need to spread it around more. Not sure what the wife will say about that!?!?

SLVRSR4
03/29/2011, 12:26
Thanks for the kind words! The new 10 star system does seem to be working out better as I'm writing the next installment (Deep Dish Themes: Harley Quinn). Some of the old problems that were presenting themselves with range/targets are nonexistent. Overall it is looking more comprehensive and will be graded on a far more fair scale.

MantisWarrior
03/30/2011, 10:55
Thanks for the kind words! The new 10 star system does seem to be working out better as I'm writing the next installment (Deep Dish Themes: Harley Quinn). Some of the old problems that were presenting themselves with range/targets are nonexistent. Overall it is looking more comprehensive and will be graded on a far more fair scale.

Will you include batman alpha harley? I like that fig.

SLVRSR4
03/30/2011, 11:27
Will you include batman alpha harley? I like that fig.

I include every version of every character that I review, so Yes. However, I don't know the Alpha rules and never played by that style, so she is being graded strictly by core heroclix rules.