View Full Version : WE are the Mutants; We are the ENEMY
I originally posted this over in Sluggo's "X2 Poster" thread, but it occurred to me I was hijacking his thread to yammer about politics, and that seemed rude, so I deleted it and started my own thread.
Was watching the "X-Men II" trailer online the other day... when an odd thought occurred to me.
The trailer basically shows government SWAT troops attacking a school. Most of the X-Men aren't home. The school is a boarding school, packed with youngish teenagers, and one big bad Wolverine. Wolverine kicks some butt. Presumably, so do the super-powered teens.
I think this will go over well. Teeners can identify with the teeners in the movie, and every teener boy in the world wants to be Wolverine, and every teener girl in the world wants... well, wants Wolverine, so to speak.
...but then I began thinking. Government SWAT troops. Attacking a private residence, a SCHOOL, for potato's sake, with big guns and special weapons, and who needs a warrant, we're the GOVERNMENT!!! Nothin' here but a bunch of punk kids, and watch your mouth, sonny boy, we're the GOVERNMENT!!!!
Why is this happening? Because those who attend that school are different. Their essential humanity is irrelevant. The fact that they're children is irrelevant. The fact that they don't seem to actually have committed any CRIMES is irrelevant. They are Potential Enemies Of The State, and in the movie, we see what the Government does about potential threats.
Given the current political situation... particularly concerning constitutional rights, arresting and holding "enemy combatants" without bail or trial and maybe even without a lawyer... and the erasure of certain constitutional liberties and rights in the name of "national security"... I think this is an important and relevant message, aimed right smack at the youth of America. Even if it's wrapped up in superheroes and special effects.
Go see the flick, and let me know what YOU think.
...of course, I could be entirely WRONG, here, and NO ONE is paying any attention to the political subtext...:rolleyes:
Manchine
03/12/2003, 23:15
Could be just a militeristic group. There are many in the pages of Marvel. Even on the cartoon there was FoH Friends of Humanity. They werent very militeristic just bullies.
Originally posted by Doomtoy
...of course, I could be entirely WRONG, here, and NO ONE is paying any attention to the political subtext...:rolleyes:
I didn't notice it at first, but you're saying does make sense. Heh, what are you gonna do, stuff like that happens in America.
"...stuff like that happens in America?"
As in "Oh, well, we should just ignore it..."?
:eek:
I wasn't griping, though. I just thought it was kind of interesting and subversive, releasing this particular movie right in the middle of a time where Nazilike seizures and arrests are happening, right here in the Land Of The Free And The Home Of The Brave.
Probably wasn't INTENDED by the director/producers... but nevertheless, an interesting and relevant message...
theres a shot from the movie they showed at a comic con, it basically says that the strike team is TOTALLY Stryker and NOT the government. The president is iffy about sending troops in because it is a school (mystique is in the scene too, defending the X-Men). The president tells stryker something about "wanting to register the mutants, but nothing more". The full out attack is Stryker acting on his own. The "sub-text" is that there are those few in society who will proscute for no reason, the few that will fight those, and a great many who will do nothing.
Originally posted by Doomtoy
"...stuff like that happens in America?"
As in "Oh, well, we should just ignore it..."?
Oh, no! I didn't mean it like that. I was just saying that something like this would happen in America. These "seizures" (as you called it) shouldn't be ignored at all.
Originally posted by sluggo
theres a shot from the movie they showed at a comic con, it basically says that the strike team is TOTALLY Stryker and NOT the government. The president is iffy about sending troops in because it is a school (mystique is in the scene too, defending the X-Men). The president tells stryker something about "wanting to register the mutants, but nothing more". The full out attack is Stryker acting on his own. The "sub-text" is that there are those few in society who will proscute for no reason, the few that will fight those, and a great many who will do nothing.
Or i suppose you could see it yet another way. The president remains PUBLICLY iffy and undecided but in the privacy of his office tell that Stryker guy to go ahead but if he get caught (by media and/or superteens) then he's on his own... a rather standard Black Ops procedure all in all. We all love a good conspiracy theory, don't we?
On the point of the political message underlying X2, it must be said that the director was inspired by one of the greatest X-men comic adventure "God loves, man kills" from back in the days were comics did convey a message ;)
P.
"Or i suppose you could see it yet another way. The president remains PUBLICLY iffy and undecided but in the privacy of his office tell that Stryker guy to go ahead" - the only 3 people int he office during the scene were the President, Kelly (mystique) and Stryker. I dunno how public that would be.
"back in the days were comics did convey a message" - Many still do.
"I was just saying that something like this would happen in America" - Something like that HAS happened in America
And just another question - whats up with Americans pouring out French wine and re-naming things like French fries (freedom fries?, please).
Originally posted by sluggo
And just another question - whats up with Americans pouring out French wine and re-naming things like French fries (freedom fries?, please).
I was waiting for someone to mention this. I personally think that this is the most pathetic and childish thing I've ever heard of. And why? Because France thinks differently then them... Even the most patriotic of Americans must admit that they're not looking to good these days.
webhead817
03/13/2003, 16:41
I think we're looking just fine.
Anyway, I think if you suspend disbelief, you could believe that a military commander with some authority could act on his own, say attacking a school full of different kids, without the full support of the rest of the government.
"I think we're looking just fine" - not really. You (not you personally) are looking very childish with this "no french" thing. Like a child throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants.
"you could believe that a military commander with some authority could act on his own" - I'm very sure this is what happens in X2.
webhead817
03/13/2003, 16:52
The freedom fries thing is kind of ridiculous, I think that's the point. Ah well.
I think that the X-Men series is meant to push the limits a little bit, make us look at ourselves and see what deep seeded prejudices we may have. The opening of X1 was very powerful in that respect in my mind.
A_Higher_Level
03/13/2003, 16:54
And this is why you don't see many black mutants. First off, they're already being held down by the 'Man'. When they start seeing SWAT teams, they start making tracks. Secondly the thought of going to a school where a bald, crippled guy can read their minds doesn't exaclty appeal to them either.
Look at HeroClix! You got a Thug, a SHIELD Agent, Blade, Black Panther, and Steel (and now Storm). Black Panther figured out he was better on his own than running around with a god-man who wields a magical hammer, a super soldier, a half-god (in Hercules), a robot that cost more than he'll ever make in his lifetime, and a girl that's stronger than he is. No wonder he decided to go on his own!
Blade is the only vampire in the game that doesn't get Energy Steal, but thankfully Steel is a somewhat decent character to use in play.
Well, I said all that to say this...
...
Uhh, what were we talking about originally?!? Oh yeah! Government conspiracies and schools with people wierder than yourself do not a safe place make for minorities.
:p
jedigeof
03/13/2003, 20:29
Art imitates life. Great thread Doomtoy thanks for keeping your eyes open.
Who watches the Watchmen?
Jason Blood
03/13/2003, 20:42
Originally posted by sluggo
"Or i suppose you could see it yet another way. The president remains PUBLICLY iffy and undecided but in the privacy of his office tell that Stryker guy to go ahead" - the only 3 people int he office during the scene were the President, Kelly (mystique) and Stryker. I dunno how public that would be.
"back in the days were comics did convey a message" - Many still do.
"I was just saying that something like this would happen in America" - Something like that HAS happened in America
And just another question - whats up with Americans pouring out French wine and re-naming things like French fries (freedom fries?, please).
I am not proud to admit that the whole thing was started In a North Carolina restraunt but its true
Jason Blood - What really gets me about it is when I hear Americans trying to justify it (they played bunch on the radio today). They were saying "well we liberated France during WW2, so they should support us now" (and thats keeping it nice). I know its true that America was ONE of the nations that helped Liberate France in WW2, but since when does liberating a country mean that the country that was liberated has to do whatever the other wants? And if you want to follow that logic, France helped America during the Independence war, if they hadn't there wouldn't be an America (at least not as we know toay) so France doesn't owe America anything. The whole thing is silly, and latly America as been looking silly and childish to the rest of the world.
I do feel for the American's though, in Canada we know the embarressment of having a complete moron as your leader.
Originally posted by sluggo
Jason Blood - What really gets me about it is when I hear Americans trying to justify it (they played bunch on the radio today). They were saying "well we liberated France during WW2, so they should support us now" (and thats keeping it nice). I know its true that America was ONE of the nations that helped Liberate France in WW2, but since when does liberating a country mean that the country that was liberated has to do whatever the other wants? And if you want to follow that logic, France helped America during the Independence war, if they hadn't there wouldn't be an America (at least not as we know toay) so France doesn't owe America anything. The whole thing is silly, and latly America as been looking silly and childish to the rest of the world.
I do feel for the American's though, in Canada we know the embarressment of having a complete moron as your leader.
Hey i feel your pain :) Being French...huh!?...what?!!
*dodges the Freedom fries*
What the hell was that for?!!! :)
As i was saying, despite the small English flag in the corner, i am French and more than a little surprised to how far this thing has gone. I mean, come on! Is the next step to heard Frenchies living in the States to *ahem* detention camps? and then their friends too?? I do get my news through the English filter and frankly never heard about the wine-pouring and the fries-renaming...can't say i care either. If you'd rather pour wine instead of drinking it, well good for you, we'll sell some more next time around. As for the fries, well, i never really understood why they're called French fries :confused: Nothing to do with us, over here it's more of of Belgian thing (with mussels...yummy) so hey, rename all you want, we've never taken any pride in that :)
I guess my feeling is rather close to JoFo's and sluggo's, the US do come across childish and tantrum-prone (nevermind the warmongering echoed by dear old Tony) but in the end, Irak will be bombed to hell and so will whoever pissed them off.
*takes pen and paper*
Lemme see....
France wasn't nice and didn't do what i said: Nuke'em!
Germany sided with them so i couldn't bully the others: Nuke'em!
There was Russia too...well: Nuke'em!
By the way, there are some terrorists in Ireland: Nuke'em!
and in Corsica: Nuke'em!
and in Algeria: Nuke'em!
maybe i can get Canada's lunchmoney, if not well: Nuke'em!
et caetera ad infinitum....
*sound of door being blown off*
*SWAT in the place*
..mmmm...want some fries, guys? yeah, French fri..*BLAM!!*
webhead817
03/14/2003, 10:55
I think we might just start by banning all of the French and Frech-Canadian members. ;) Everyone knows those insidious fries, what with all of the oil, clog the arteries.
Well, y'know, the French largely paid for the American Revolution. They provided George Washington with all the gunpowder he and the Colonials needed to fight the Redcoats. And they provided actual troops at one point, too.
Admittedly, they weren't doing this for freedom or love of Americans. They were doing it because it bugged their greatest international rival, England. Still, one should not forget a favor done, a debt unrepaid. Especially since it turned out that revolution and democracy is contagious, and the French government promptly got guillotined by their own people a few years later...
The international situation currently is not a good one. I would like to think it will improve if and when we get rid of the current president and install a sane one, instead.
But I digress. We were talking about mutants.
No sane military commander is going to attack Americans on American soil on his own authority, without orders from higher up. No matter HOW reviled any given minority is. Hell, look at what happened in Waco... and that was WITH orders from higher authority!
...but "covert operations" DO happen. I find myself wondering how many non-American citizens have been quietly rounded up and jailed since 9/11. I have wondered more than once about that stuff in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and all those other documents that make us America... you know, the parts about "Liberty and Justice for All", "All men are created equal," and all that stuff... and how, from time to time, the politicians decide to amend it with "Except whoever we're mad at right now."
Or, as George Orwell put it, "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." (Animal Farm)
Gee, I guess I wasn't talking about mutants, after all.
If we are America... then we've got a lot to live up to.
And if we are not America... well, I guess we're no better than anyone else, including the people we're mad at right now.
Which would YOU pick? Last I heard, what WE thought was what MATTERED. In America, that is. You know, where the government is supposed to do what the people tell it to?
Last I heard, what WE thought was what MATTERED. In America, that is. You know, where the government is supposed to do what the people tell it to?
Unless there's a revolution, this could be quite accurate... part of it is, how do we make people think what we will be doing is right. How is it justified.
every teener boy in the world wants to be Wolverine
I'd rather be Iceman... that Rogue chick is kinda hot... hehehe
Originally posted by Doomtoy
Well, y'know, the French largely paid for the American Revolution. They provided George Washington with all the gunpowder he and the Colonials needed to fight the Redcoats. And they provided actual troops at one point, too.
Admittedly, they weren't doing this for freedom or love of Americans. They were doing it because it bugged their greatest international rival, England.
Which could be the reason with some countries are so adamant in opposing the US on the war issue right now. Nevermind rather hypocritical notions of freedom and peace thrown around by some, one could argue that if the US are rebuffed by the UN and go to war nevertheless then surely their economic power and influence worldwide will diminish, can only be good for the others. Psssst, here buy that French <whatever>, might not be better or cheaper than the american one, but at least it's not american :D
Still, one should not forget a favor done, a debt unrepaid. Especially since it turned out that revolution and democracy is contagious, and the French government promptly got guillotined by their own people a few years later...
Oh the irony of history! don't you love it? who's to say how things will spin in the next 20-30 years? makes you tread very carefully... or not
The international situation currently is not a good one. I would like to think it will improve if and when we get rid of the current president and install a sane one, instead.
But I digress. We were talking about mutants.
yes, right. "mutants"...those who are different, whether in actions or thinking...
No sane military commander is going to attack Americans on American soil on his own authority, without orders from higher up. No matter HOW reviled any given minority is. Hell, look at what happened in Waco... and that was WITH orders from higher authority!
...but "covert operations" DO happen. I find myself wondering how many non-American citizens have been quietly rounded up and jailed since 9/11. I have wondered more than once about that stuff in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and all those other documents that make us America... you know, the parts about "Liberty and Justice for All", "All men are created equal," and all that stuff... and how, from time to time, the politicians decide to amend it with "Except whoever we're mad at right now."
...and usually that's when i stop thinking about that because i feel i'm turning into a crackpot conspiracy theorist :rolleyes:
But, trust me (if you can do that since i'm a treacherous French hell-bent on destroying the US of A) it's the same everywhere e.g. France has been seriously tightening its control on civil liberties and on what is "appropriate" and what is not (akin to political correctness) in the past few years and most ppl thinks everything is fine.... ok stop there, conspiracy feel :)
Or, as George Orwell put it, "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." (Animal Farm)
oh so true.... unfortunately, i suppose.
If we are America... then we've got a lot to live up to.
And if we are not America... well, I guess we're no better than anyone else, including the people we're mad at right now.
i think you are America, and you do have a strong image of freedom to live up to and it sure is hard. "With great power comes great responsabilities" as one web-headed guy would put it. How's that!? i did manage to fall back on comics and by extension HC :D
jedigeof
03/14/2003, 18:56
"and usually that's when i stop thinking about that because i feel i'm turning into a crackpot conspiracy theorist "
The only reason 911 happend was Bushes oil buddies wanted a pipe line through Afganastan. Now we're going to war so they can control the oil fields of Iraq. In 2000 saddam stoped taking US dollars for oil. Instead they now accept the Euro hmmm. France & Germany are members of the EU & buy their oil from.. you guessed it Iraq. England does not hmm.. Don't give me that patriot propaganda BS about getting the bad guy. If that was the case then Cuba would be the 51st state. Oh wait they don't have any oil. One more rant if I don't see a sentinal in this movie I'm really gonna lose it.
"One more rant if I don't see a sentinal in this movie I'm really gonna lose it." - They you're probably going to lose it because the ONLY sentinal that MIGHT be in the movie is the head of one in the Canadian base Wolverine goes too - other then that, no sentinals.
Ah.
You're saying that the American government arranged the whole 9/11 thing as an excuse to attack Afghanistan and the Middle East?
Sorry, bud. Gonna have to see some proof before I believe that. Not the first time I've heard it, as well as that nonsense about how 4000 Israelis didn't show up for work that day at the Twin Towers.
Again, when I see something approaching proof, perhaps then I will believe it.
jedigeof
03/15/2003, 17:31
"Sorry, bud. Gonna have to see some proof before I believe that."
Well lets start with you finding me a picture of plane wreckage at the pentagon. There isn't any not so much as seat cushion. The hole didn't even span the width of the plane for one & for two It didn't penatrate more than one ring. The country was under attack yet the President continued to read his favorite "childhood" book (that did not come out until he was an adult) to school childern. Wag the dog buddy, wag the dog.
You're kidding, right? There are people that *saw* the plane hit the Pentagon. If you lived in the area (as I do) you'd know how populated the area around the Pentagon is. 395 goes right by it, and it was full of rush hour traffic at the time.
jedigeof
03/16/2003, 16:58
All the witnesses I saw said they saw a low flying plane. Nothing about actully seeing it hit. The first reports that came out the morning of said its was a truck bomb. Just look at the pysical evidence no plane wreckage, to small of hole, & shallow penatration. Some even say the blast damage blew out not in. Makes me say hmm...
Manchine
03/16/2003, 17:06
Sorry jedigeof but if you have this opinion then my thoughts on you just plummetted. Becuase its doesnt take to much intelligence to figure out your completely wrong.
Poor poor fool.
jedigeof
03/16/2003, 17:40
"Becuase its doesnt take to much intelligence to figure out your completely wrong. "
Prove me wrong Manchine find me a picture with plane wreckage in it. There aren't any. I didn't just pull this stuff out of my bum. Just from the amateur investigation I did their are still a lot of unanswered questions. By the way a fool is someone that belives the lies coming out of this administration.
jedigeof - Why don't you prove what your saying/claiming? I was watching the news when all that happened, they had pictures and video of theplane wreck in the pentagon.
jedigeof
03/16/2003, 18:14
I watched all of it to and never once saw evidence of a plane. I'm not saying it didn't happen. However the evidence doesn't support that it did either. I'd like to know why the feds have been so slow to investigate. They spent over 70 million & seven years trying to prove someone got a BJ. They only spent 3 million & 15 months on 911. 10 of those months where spent just trying to get proper clearance for the panel.
Ah.
So... um... lemme get this straight...
You are saying that on 9/11, no planes struck the Pentagon or the World Trade Centers? Or you are simply saying that no planes struck the Pentagon?
If you are saying the former, well, I would think that the variety of videotape footage SHOWING the planes hitting the WTC would count for something.
If you are saying the latter... well... then precisely what ARE you saying? That our government blew up a hunk of the Pentagon in order to make an excuse for a war?
That's insane. I would certainly think that the WTC alone would be a peachy excuse for a war, if any given nation dared to take responsibility for such a thing. And given the craziness of our current chief executive, I'm quite certain that it would not cross his mind -- or anyone else's -- to say, "Hmm... the WTC alone might not be enough excuse to start a war. Better blow up the Pentagon, QUICK, so's we can add that on."
Oh, wait... there's the testimony of eyewitnesses. The ones who SAW the plane hit the Pentagon. But you have already dismissed this, so I guess there's little point in bringing it up...
jedigeof, I really do hate to break up a good conspiracy theory, but the Boeing did hit the Pentagon, and there are pictures of it, as well as explanations for most of your questions, here:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
As for why the plane didn't penetrate further, let's look at some basic facts. I have friends & family who work at Boeing and have taken tours of the plants. I've seen the jets in various stages of assembly and seen the materials used to make them. The aluminum skin on an airplane is as thin as possible to meet safety requirements. Fling a can of soda at a reinforced brick wall and tell me which breaks. Fill the soda can with gasoline & a firecracker and tell me how much of the can you find.
The walls of the WTC were largely glass and supports, not inches thick reinforced concrete, and those planes, moving at a higher rate of speed, did not completely penetrate the buildings. Why, then, would you expect better penetration at a building with fortress-like walls?
One might also point out that when one pancakes an aircraft into the ground at a steep angle at high speed, two things are known to happen:
1. The aircraft tends to fragment. A lot. The fragments are, for the most part, often not recognizable as aircraft fragments when photographed from a hundred feet away or more.
2. The aircraft in question is likely to explode, if it's carrying any decent amount of fuel. Aircraft fuel is more potent than gasoline, and burns very hot. I should point out at this point that aluminum WILL burn, if you get it hot enough. Ask any Navy man about that.
Manchine
03/17/2003, 00:56
Points to Doomtoy
See what you started see see. :p :p ;) :D
Sorry just had to point that out.
Well, it does seem like a bit of a departure from the original topic material.
I just thought it was interesting and topical, that's all.
Of course, using the X-Men as a metaphor for "repressed minority taking heat from the State," has been something they've been doing since 1963, really...
Manchine
03/17/2003, 01:14
I understand what you were trying to do. But the conspiracy theory guys always ruin it. :D ;) :p
I don't mind conspiracy theory guys. They help keep the big boys honest.
Trolls, on the other hand....
jedigeof
03/17/2003, 21:40
"Of course, using the X-Men as a metaphor for "repressed minority taking heat from the State," has been something they've been doing since 1963, really..."
Backwards than forewards...Backwards than forewards...
Psylockeslover
03/17/2003, 21:51
2. The aircraft in question is likely to explode, if it's carrying any decent amount of fuel. Aircraft fuel is more potent than gasoline, and burns very hot. I should point out at this point that aluminum WILL burn, if you get it hot enough. Ask any Navy man about that.
I am an airplane mechanic. About a year ago, the hangar I worked at burned to the ground. (the fire was started by contractors working repairs on the hangar, not the mechanics) There were 2 airplanes in the hangar at the time of the fire with aproximately 1/2 load of fuel each.
After the fire, we were able to go to the site and survey the damage. The only parts that were recognizable were what was left of the jet engines, which are made to withstand extreem temperatures.
There was NOTHING left of the airplanes! All the aluminium was VAPORIZED! And this is from the perspective of standing exactly where the plane was standing before the fire. So it is extreemly possible that there would be no recognizable from 100 or more feet away.
[/Rant]
Just some 2 cents from me.
The whole freedom fries thing. Stupid. Just because the French government is doing something we don't like is no reason to assume that the entire county is against us. Heck, how many things has our government done that we don't like.
9/11 was staged???? Dude you have to be smoking something. I'll never forget that day for the rest of my life. Airforce One landed about 1 mile away from where I worked that day. Talk about being on edge. And that's nothing compared to what the people went through at the WTC, Pentagon, The Crashed Flight or their familes. My . . correction . . our country came under attack in the form of devestating terroist attacks. We watched the events unfold before our eyes. There was no way that could have been staged by our government. That was a simple act of pure complete evil. To attack Military targets is one thing but the Twin Towers and the Aircraft were full of nothing but innocent people who never had anything to do with the conflict of a relegious nutcase and our government.
As for the X-men and Stryker. I think if someone is crazy enough they'll attempt anything.
Also. This is an awesome thread.
jedigeof
03/18/2003, 17:48
They recovered personal artifacts from the passengers that hit the world trade center. They also recovered parts of the planes and had photos of recognizable parts like windows.
"9/11 was staged???? "
I never said that. However I do belive they knew it was coming.
"The Crashed Flight "
Don't you mean the one that was shot down? There was an 8 mile long debris field.
"the Twin Towers and the Aircraft were full of nothing but innocent people who never had anything to do with the conflict of a relegious nutcase and our government. "
Lots of innocent people die for oil. Tommorow will be no different.
Thanks for the link Grinner as you can see I had only been to the hunt for the boeing site.
Originally posted by jedigeof
They recovered personal artifacts from the passengers that hit the world trade center. They also recovered parts of the planes and had photos of recognizable parts like windows.
The difference between hitting a couple of inches of glass and a couple of feet of concrete.
"9/11 was staged???? "
I never said that. However I do belive they knew it was coming.
There's some compelling evidence either way on this one. I guess we'll have to wait 60 years for the documents to come out like Pearl Harbor.
Thanks for the link Grinner as you can see I had only been to the hunt for the boeing site.
Glad to help.
dolemite199
03/18/2003, 19:38
jedigeof,
Here is a statement to make you think less of a conspiracy about the pentagon plane crash on 911.
A CNN anchor (can't recall her name) phoned her husband while on board American Airlines flight 77. She told him that the plane had been hi-jacked! As you know, she is no longer alive because she indeed died on American Airlines flight 77. I find it very disturbing that people actually attempt to find a conspiracy theroy about events like this. I am not a person who blindly agrees with what my goverment does. I actually try to find out what they are doing because they need people to keep track of them. However, their is absolutely know reason for anyone to doubt that a plane, hi-jacked by terroists, did in fact strike the pentagon.
Don't you mean the one that was shot down? There was an 8 mile long debris field.
You know, that is just ignorance right there. There is evidence from cell phone calls form the passengers to their families that they attempted to retake the plane. As a result, the terroists crashed it. If the plane was shot down by an American F-16, then there would be a circular debri patern instead of eight mile long scroch marks across the Pennsylvania country side which is indicative of a plane crashing to earth own its own decent. It hits the ground, then slides for however long it takes to release all of the energy from its intial impact. Besides, the missiles that are fired from an F-16 would blow the entire plane up, not cause it to crash.
Everyone,
For those of you who think it is unfair, or unconstitutional to arbitraially bring people in for questioning, hold them without charges being brought up on them, or not allowing them to see a lawyer, I have one statement for you. The majority of these people are not U.S. citizens. These people are not protected by the constitution. They have absolutely no rights in the eyes of the law. However, because we pratice intolernace and appeasement we allow these foriegn nationals the right to representation and due process. But we do not have to grant them these rights because the are not citizens. The have not completed the process of becoming a citizen to deserve the protection of being one.
I need to stop before I get to charged up about current and recent events.
jedigeof
03/18/2003, 19:56
"If the plane was shot down by an American F-16, then there would be a circular debri patern instead of eight mile long scroch marks across the Pennsylvania country side which is indicative of a plane crashing to earth own its own decent. "
Kind of like the space shuttle right? Eyewittnesses reported seeing an exposion in the sky. If the plane did skid for eight miles than why is it in ity bity peices. Like the shuttle I belive it to broke up in flight. Indictive of being shot down.
*sigh*
My thread has been hijacked, and flown into the side of a conspiracy theory...
Psylockeslover
03/18/2003, 20:17
you obviously know nothing of the physics of an airplane crash.......I'm done with this......
Rock ON! dolemite199.
Conspiracy Theory always has a problem with common sense.
"*sigh*
My thread has been hijacked, and flown into the side of a conspiracy theory..."
Sorry Doomtoy. This was an awesome thread that you started. I think that a lot of us are a bit sensitive when it comes to 9/11 and ignorance.
Manchine
03/18/2003, 21:16
Originally posted by Doomtoy
*sigh*
My thread has been hijacked, and flown into the side of a conspiracy theory...
Points to Doomtoy.
You, you started this!!
Shakes fist.
:D :D :D :D ;) :p
ShadowRaven
03/18/2003, 21:23
Originally posted by dolemite199
jedigeof,
Here is a statement to make you think less of a conspiracy about the pentagon plane crash on 911.
A CNN anchor (can't recall her name) phoned her husband while on board American Airlines flight 77. She told him that the plane had been hi-jacked! As you know, she is no longer alive because she indeed died on American Airlines flight 77. I find it very disturbing that people actually attempt to find a conspiracy theroy about events like this. I am not a person who blindly agrees with what my goverment does. I actually try to find out what they are doing because they need people to keep track of them. However, their is absolutely know reason for anyone to doubt that a plane, hi-jacked by terroists, did in fact strike the pentagon.
You know, that is just ignorance right there. There is evidence from cell phone calls form the passengers to their families that they attempted to retake the plane. As a result, the terroists crashed it. If the plane was shot down by an American F-16, then there would be a circular debri patern instead of eight mile long scroch marks across the Pennsylvania country side which is indicative of a plane crashing to earth own its own decent. It hits the ground, then slides for however long it takes to release all of the energy from its intial impact. Besides, the missiles that are fired from an F-16 would blow the entire plane up, not cause it to crash.
Everyone,
For those of you who think it is unfair, or unconstitutional to arbitraially bring people in for questioning, hold them without charges being brought up on them, or not allowing them to see a lawyer, I have one statement for you. The majority of these people are not U.S. citizens. These people are not protected by the constitution. They have absolutely no rights in the eyes of the law. However, because we pratice intolernace and appeasement we allow these foriegn nationals the right to representation and due process. But we do not have to grant them these rights because the are not citizens. The have not completed the process of becoming a citizen to deserve the protection of being one.
I need to stop before I get to charged up about current and recent events.
I agree, and in my opinion you are completely and in all other ways correct.
Psylockeslover
03/18/2003, 21:32
The problem I have with cospiracy theorists is that no matter how many facts you throw at them, they just sat that "They" are manipulating the facts and feel that this totaly justifies their arguement. Little, if any, of their arguements are based on facts.
Dang! I guess I'm not done with this.
I'm gonna go back to banging my head against a brick wall. It's about the same results as argueing with a conspiracy theorists....
jedigeof
03/19/2003, 20:25
"The problem I have with cospiracy theorists is that no matter how many facts you throw at them, they just sat that "They" are manipulating the facts and feel that this totaly justifies their arguement. Little, if any, of their arguements are based on facts. "
What a joke. MY "arguement" was based on that site Hunt for the boeing. I thought it rasised alot of questions. Grinner Kindly pointed me to a site that had a picture of plane wreckage. Now try to understand If you had come across a site like the hunt for the boeing. What whould you have thought? I admit I'm the first to jump on aboard the 12 monkeys band wagon. Hell I'm still not covinced bush isn't the anti-christ. I guess only time will tell.
"My thread has been hijacked, and flown into the side of a conspiracy theory..."
No I'm pretty sure the topic was shadow goverment (& sheep).
When the farmer comes along and slips rubber boots over your hind legs don't come ba-haing to me.
This is insane. Look who you guys are arguing with for crying out loud! Look at jedigeof's track record and tell me this means anything to him.
Doomtoy, you are completely correct, this thread has been hijacked. I read it for the first few days, but after the second page it just became mindless banter. Could we get back to the original topic? Please?
-Rich
jedigeof
03/21/2003, 15:21
"Could we get back to the original topic? "
I didn't realize you were apart of this conversation.
"Look at jedigeof's track record and tell me this means anything to him."
What does my highschool letter have to do with my passion for the truth.
A_Higher_Level
03/27/2003, 09:19
My goodness! We went from mutants representing minorities that are repressed from the government to the government conspiring to allow thousands of people to die just for oil! I guess I'll take a shot at trying to show the particularly ignorant people the light of day on the whole 'warring for oil' subject.
1: Terrorists are what we call the 'bad guys' and they have NO oil! They never did, but they do have sand. Mounds and mounds of sand! If sand were oil, then that conspirarcy might hold water.
2: You probably didn't see pictures of the Pentagon being hit because tourists aren't normally allowed to be anywhere near an active military base to film it. Imagine a plane crashing into your home. How many poeple do you think will have that live on film?
3: And for all you people out there that believe in the conspiracy theory, I got some saddening news for ya. Even if the conspiracies were true, it wouldn't change a dang thing. They will still be in power pulling your strings, and you'd still be a broke doomsday street preacher who would someday get yourself committed to an asylum if you even got close to becoming a minor threat. They've always known where you are... they just don't care.
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