View Full Version : New Season, New Rulebook
WizKidsNECA
03/30/2011, 12:10
The Rulebook 2011 Project has been one of those projects that make my day to day HeroClix work difficult. If you think remembering the rules of HeroClix is challenging today, imagine if you needed to keep track of what the rules are today and not get confused with how you know it will be in a few weeks/months.
So I can tell you that releasing the new rulebook is something that comes as a great relief to me. Not because of all the blood, sweat, and tears that went into generating it – though that alone is reason to be happy – but now, when someone asks me about Colossal characters needing to roll for break away, I have an easy answer for them (Colossal Stamina allows them to automatically break away) instead of being coy and saying “That’s something that WizKids is looking into.” [...]
[Read More on WizKidsGames.com (http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2011/03/30/new-season-new-rulebook/)]
moonxine77
03/30/2011, 13:53
Time to fdisk my brain and format with the new system.
fastcat99
03/30/2011, 13:57
From that, my big question is, can I turn stealth off on my opponent's turn? If he preps to MC my batman to attack me, can I turn off the TA before he does that so I can see batman to PC him when he shoots at me?
theemaxx52ad
03/30/2011, 13:59
From that, my big question is, can I turn stealth off on my opponent's turn? If he preps to MC my batman to attack me, can I turn off the TA before he does that so I can see batman to PC him when he shoots at me?
As the "cancel" concept is gone, I would say that, no, you can't do that.
Gah. Let me get this straight.... for Double Power Actions.
If I wanna give any character two tokens, I can have them perform two actions on a turn? Say I want to use one action to move my full move into combat. And use the other one for close combat? Gah... if so that's gonna change how the game works a whole lot.
doctor_x
03/30/2011, 14:10
*UGH*
Not looking forward to this at all.
DrmngCelestial
03/30/2011, 14:10
[Quote] For example, Ozymandias has a special power that allows him to use Ouwit twice in a turn, though the second time is as a power action. Let’s say Ozy started the turn with no action tokens. First, he uses Outwit as a free action. Then, he uses it again as a power action. Later in the turn, he is assigned a token because he is using a Themed Team Probability Control and, at the end of that action, he pushes. [Quote]
If the theme team PC rules are going be getting a change in the new rulebook, this should probably be noted in the article. As of now, a character who has been given an (any) action during a turn can not be the one to get the token for a theme team PC.
Quebbster
03/30/2011, 14:11
Gah. Let me get this straight.... for Double Power Actions.
If I wanna give any character two tokens, I can have them perform two actions on a turn? Say I want to use one action to move my full move into combat. And use the other one for close combat? Gah... if so that's gonna change how the game works a whole lot.
Not at all. Some figures have actions that require a Double Power Action to activate, which is a regular Power Action that places two tokens on them.
Iron Man/War Machine's All-Out Assault is such a power.
captainamerica1987
03/30/2011, 14:12
With the last few sentences, I'm a tad bit worried.
"That’s our intro for today. Over the coming days, we’ll take a look at a few other areas on the new rulebook, with the PDF of it and the new Powers and Abilities card available for download at the end of the series."
Are we having to print our own rulebooks now? WTF!
Not at all. Some figures have actions that require a Double Power Action to activate, which is a regular Power Action that places two tokens on them.
Iron Man/War Machine's All-Out Assault is such a power.
Ahh. Ok. So it's only referring to characters like Iron Man/War Machine that have an ability that is a double power action. Gotcha. The wording left me a little confuzzled. Thanks. I was really worried that the game is changing majorly.
UltraDRGN
03/30/2011, 14:14
I'm sure we will have to print out our own rules, until the next starter stet comes out.
Are we having to print our own rulebooks now? WTF!
Well there is a new Starter planned for later this year.
I'm sure it'll have the new Rulebook also. Along with whatever else is new.
abadon09
03/30/2011, 14:22
i like the ideas they have come up with, collosals no longer get tied up (very thematic), taking out a layer of complication for the the powers by making them active or triggered.I also like the idea of being able to have characters who are able to activate very powerful special powers by using two actions to preform one very powerful action. these all sound like great additions and open up wider abilities for the characters in this game that i love. keep up the good work wizkids and thank you.
haymaker
03/30/2011, 14:42
At the very bottom, it says "next time - wild cards & themed teams." I hope wild cards can still copy ATA's. I usually play themed but competitive options are always good, especially with how good themed advantages are.
Sometimes we'll house rule that characters fit a theme if you can reasonably argue that they should.
For example, IMO Throg should have the :m-dolphin: instead of :m-boot:, Ch'p should have the animal keyword (c'mon - he's a squirrel), and BatB Martian Manhunter should have the detective keyword (he's frantically searching for his cookies)!
....anyway, just thinking out loud.
....and on a keyboard.
brnbngls
03/30/2011, 14:44
As a relative necomer to the game, and someone who's still trying to wrap my mind around the existing rules, I'm a little concerned about this.
haymaker
03/30/2011, 14:45
i like the ideas they have come up with, collosals no longer get tied up (very thematic), taking out a layer of complication for the the powers by making them active or triggered.I also like the idea of being able to have characters who are able to activate very powerful special powers by using two actions to preform one very powerful action. these all sound like great additions and open up wider abilities for the characters in this game that i love. keep up the good work wizkids and thank you.
I agree completely - between Traits, Special Powers, and now this, they can make figures play like they should - completely customized
Repulsor rage
03/30/2011, 14:47
So i cant turn off my willpower and move to another click?
fatfinley
03/30/2011, 14:50
Ugh... Heroclix Rules change more than membership on the Avengers.
GreenBertMan
03/30/2011, 14:51
so if stealth is on opponets turns, can a prob a stealthed persons attack :) on their turn
haymaker
03/30/2011, 14:53
As a relative necomer to the game, and someone who's still trying to wrap my mind around the existing rules, I'm a little concerned about this.
I understand you concern, but for the most part, the changes usually make sense and actually alleviate arguement on gray areas. The Stealth one helps, but I think Stealth should be ruled that it only affects enemies. Period. Your own team should know where their ally is.
Anyway, I've been playing for awhile now (since Supernova) and I know rule changes can be frustrating. But some new ones sound more complicated than they are. The new Double Power Action is something that will be explained on the character's card if they can use it.
The important thing is, just take it slow with simple games, core rules at first, and have fun!
saturnflight
03/30/2011, 15:01
Very excited for this; I always love rules revision season! (And don't look for the sarcasm, it isn't there.)
Colossals breaking away for free is a perfect change. So happy that's now locked in.
The defining of double power actions is just labelling what already exists, like Traits were. It'll lead to more widespread use of the game mechanic, and I can't see that as a bad thing.
The simplifying of actions by removing 'cancelled' is great; I was so bored of that ongoing technicality. Having no Stealth on your turn (while you attack) is great; that eliminates one argument (why can't I PC the guy shooting at me?)
I'm hoping for a major revamp of theme team bonuses, and for Wildcards to copy keywords! (The latter is fairly far-fetched...)
so if stealth is on opponets turns, can a prob a stealthed persons attack :) on their turn
yay domino wont have to turn off her stealth to see herself anymore :laugh:
im curious whether or not we r gonna have retirement, but some of the new changes we have is cool (collosals being able to break away automatically is great :grin: )
konasavage
03/30/2011, 15:08
I always look forward to the rules updates, thanks for the hard work Norm.
Bat-Phreak
03/30/2011, 15:09
yay domino wont have to turn off her stealth to see herself anymore :laugh:
im curious whether or not we r gonna have retirement, but some of the new changes we have is cool (collosals being able to break away automatically is great :grin: )
I am glad Norm and Co are allowing us a few weeks to get ready for the change. Gonna take some time to re-wire the brain to remove ground-in routines, especially with the elimination of Cancel.
Deathblossom
03/30/2011, 15:16
So far, everything they've talked about changing has made a lot of sense to me.
Ugh... Heroclix Rules change more than membership on the Avengers.
Compared to other miniature games like Warhammer 40k, very little has changed over the years.
yeah, thanx, NORM!
rules changes FTW!
I hope it simplifies things a bunch.
Darkhawk_76
03/30/2011, 15:23
I'm all for anything that makes the game better and to hopefully shut up those rules lawyers that show up, you know who you are. So far I don't see anything negative in what was posted.
I love the changes already! Colossal Stamina! Yes! Double power action! Yes! Stealth in opponent's turn only - yes!
What? No starter set product to go along with this?:cheeky:
lovablebill
03/30/2011, 15:29
I am very excited to see some of the rules changes. I always love seeing revisions and seeing if things make more sense. As someone who has been playing since Hypertime, the game is always getting better.
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 15:35
Until they reveal the new wordings for the PAC, it is essentially impossible to answer questions on how specific powers will interact with getting rid of the canceling mechanic.
Gah. Let me get this straight.... for Double Power Actions.
If I wanna give any character two tokens, I can have them perform two actions on a turn? Say I want to use one action to move my full move into combat. And use the other one for close combat? Gah... if so that's gonna change how the game works a whole lot.
Hmmm, does this mean the Indom and Willpower got a huge boost?
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 15:41
Hmmm, does this mean the Indom and Willpower got a huge boost?
Indomitable says "This character can use Willpower."
Anytime a figure "can use" something, you never had to cancel it. All you had to do is decide on a action to action basis whether or not you were going to use it. Want to push a figure off their top click, just declare you are not using willpower. Not that it matters much, but after that action the willpower comes back. Canceling the willpower would leave it gone until the end of the turn.
Basically, deciding not to use a power is what you should have been doing, rather than canceling anything.
realdarkphoenix
03/30/2011, 15:49
I know alot if old heads that are goin to be upset by this, I'm personally looking forward to it.
Wonder how many characters will be indirectly nerfed or buffed by this.
so if stealth is on opponets turns, can a prob a stealthed persons attack :) on their turn
Batman is going to hate seeing Mr. Terriffic on the opposing team now. Can't hide from Fair Play anymore.
Striker Mcbain
03/30/2011, 15:53
Theme teams next hmm? Destroy generic keywords please? Or nerf them compared to specific themes. I would prefer to get crushed by Avengers instead of Cap, Howard the Duck, Robin, and Question who can practice martial arts together...
tonysking
03/30/2011, 15:53
New Rulebook Again?
RavenProject
03/30/2011, 15:54
NEW RULEBOOK AGAIN?????? Geez, I just printed and bound both versions of the last rulebook for the shop. This is getting ridiculous to have a new rulebook every 3-4 months.
I'll bite: What new rulebook came out in the last three to four months?
-J
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 15:55
NEW RULEBOOK AGAIN?????? Geez, I just printed and bound both versions of the last rulebook for the shop. This is getting ridiculous to have a new rulebook every 3-4 months.
This is a rulebook, not the Player's Guide.
tonysking
03/30/2011, 15:58
Ugh... Heroclix Rules change more than membership on the Avengers.
Now THATS funny! :laugh::laugh::laugh:
aqhoffman
03/30/2011, 16:00
Yay wizkids! Liking what I see so far, but its gonna be lots o' studying up for the next couple tournaments.
tonysking
03/30/2011, 16:01
This is a rulebook, not the Player's Guide.
OK, so I just did the "Players Guide". So is the "rulebook" then the same as the PAC?
tonysking
03/30/2011, 16:03
I'll bite: What new rulebook came out in the last three to four months?
-J
well evidently I used the wrong term, I meant "Players Guide". And this is the "Rulebook". Sorry all. :tired:
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 16:03
OK, so I just did the "Players Guide". So is the "rulebook" then the same as the PAC?
The rulebook is the book of core rules that is generally included with a starter kit. There is a PDF of the 2010 rulebook on the Heroclix website.
Presumably, this rulebook will be released with a starter some time later this year. There are no details on such a starter at this time though.
So i cant turn off my willpower and move to another click?
That was my first concern as well :grin:
Well...
...first beyond, "Boy, I bet there'll be a lot of complaining around the shop." Because there always is every time rules change :laugh:
Trader2699
03/30/2011, 16:09
An article like this serves ZERO purpose.
Don't tease me, and don't try to coddle me by prepping me for new rules. Hand em out and let the chips fall.
tonysking
03/30/2011, 16:10
The rulebook is the book of core rules that is generally included with a starter kit. There is a PDF of the 2010 rulebook on the Heroclix website.
Presumably, this rulebook will be released with a starter some time later this year. There are no details on such a starter at this time though.
Got it now;
Players Guide- Very large, 2 versions, (restricted, unrestricted).
Rulebook- Smaller, more basic/to the point.
PAC, (Powers and Abilities Card)- Quick reference "cheat sheet".
And quoting the OP; "Over the coming days, we’ll take a look at a few other areas on the new rulebook, with the PDF of it and the new Powers and Abilities card available for download at the end of the series."
I had to double check the date to make sure this wasn't an April Fools joke. I'm so glad that they have finally fixed stealth and that colossals no longer need to break away. Now I can get Holocaust into perfect position for maximum poison.
Ouchmaker
03/30/2011, 16:14
Got it now;
Players Guide- Very large, 2 versions, (restricted, unrestricted).
Rulebook- Smaller, more basic/to the point.
PAC, (Powers and Abilities Card)- Quick reference "cheat sheet".
And; Over the coming days, we’ll take a look at a few other areas on the new rulebook, with the PDF of it and the new Powers and Abilities card available for download at the end of the series.
Rulebook: how to play the game, how to move pieces and give actions, etc.
PAC: what powers and abilities actually do.
Player's Guide: FAQ, errata, answers to everything that might come up after reading the rulebook and the PAC.
reklawyad
03/30/2011, 16:17
An article like this serves ZERO purpose.
Don't tease me, and don't try to coddle me by prepping me for new rules. Hand em out and let the chips fall.
QFT dear sir I want to have it all study it and soak it ALLLLLL In now. Now I am one of those so called "rules lawyers" but honestly if you don't have rules then we are just playing rockem sockem robots otherwise. I have never agreed with all the rules(how the f is batman not able to see through joker in stealth who's right next to him to outwit him?!?!?!???) but from a stand point of the rules it makes sense.
I welcome the full change and really if they make keywords to reference abities that helps out (ie double power action or colossal awesomeness)
I think in the end this will only help the game grow.
Deathblossom
03/30/2011, 16:24
An article like this serves ZERO purpose.
Don't tease me, and don't try to coddle me by prepping me for new rules. Hand em out and let the chips fall.
The new rules don't come into effect until May 1st. I'd rather they give it out to us now, however they want to do it, even in installments, than have to wait until May to get the new rules.
Sooo they realized that they can't start previewing new figures, so they decide to "preview" the new rulebook? Why can't they just release it with commentary about the changes, rather than a preview?
tonysking
03/30/2011, 16:26
Rulebook: how to play the game, how to move pieces and give actions, etc.
PAC: what powers and abilities actually do.
Player's Guide: FAQ, errata, answers to everything that might come up after reading the rulebook and the PAC.
Better yet! Thanks
eagletsi
03/30/2011, 16:29
Yea, Colossals are fixed!!!
Munchoboy
03/30/2011, 16:30
An article like this serves ZERO purpose.
Don't tease me, and don't try to coddle me by prepping me for new rules. Hand em out and let the chips fall.
I disagree. I trust the judgement of those intimately involved in the project.
Given the scope and scale of such an undertaking, as well as how often folk get things confused concerning Rules we've had since the very beginning, I think there is ample evidence that a paced introduction is the proper way to go.
Don't like it? Don't read the articles, and wait for the inevitable release of the full Rulebook.
Gentlegamer
03/30/2011, 16:31
The fact that the rulebook changes almost annually is something that frustrates many players, and with good reason. Too many times a player will get annoyed at a tournament when they discover that something they thought worked one way – and indeed, once upon a time, it had – now works in a completely different way.
This rulebook will be the rules in use at this year’s GenCon for our Worlds event
Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules, shouldn't a rule book be in effect for at least a year before it is used as part of a championship? It seems like there isn't enough reasonable lead time for this 'high level' competition.
A rulebook ought to be in effect for around 6 months before being used in a 'championship' to work out the bugs and give players sufficient time to get used to it.
RSIxidor
03/30/2011, 16:46
For those worried about Willpower / Indomitable... Under the current rules, you DO NOT need to turn these off. You just choose not to use them.
Ch'p should have the animal keyword (c'mon - he's a squirrel)
NO HE IS NOT! He is a H'levenite! This would be like someone from another planet saying you should have the animal keyword because you're basically a monkey.
NO HE IS NOT! He is a H'levenite! This would be like someone from another planet saying you should have the animal keyword because you're basically a monkey.
I am basicly an ape, thankyouverymuch!
NO HE IS NOT! He is a H'levenite! This would be like someone from another planet saying you should have the animal keyword because you're basically a monkey.
If I can share a keyword with Detective Chimp, I'll take it!
RSIxidor
03/30/2011, 16:56
I am basicly an ape, thankyouverymuch!
Yes, that is true, but I think you understand my point.
If I can share a keyword with Detective Chimp, I'll take it!
But Detective Chimp is actually a chimp, a super intelligent chimp! Rocket Raccoon is actually a raccoon, a genetically modified raccoon! Ch'p and B'dg are NOT squirrels or chipmunks or any other form of woodland rodent!
The new rules don't come into effect until May 1st. I'd rather they give it out to us now, however they want to do it, even in installments, than have to wait until May to get the new rules.
I'd rather it be APRIL 1 just mess with everyone's head :laugh:
Stainawarjar
03/30/2011, 16:58
Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules, shouldn't a rule book be in effect for at least a year before it is used as part of a championship? It seems like there isn't enough reasonable lead time for this 'high level' competition.
What rule tweak was that?
ThorKnigh83
03/30/2011, 17:02
if it has to do with first turn immunity then that has been a rule for a long long time. and the reason that the winner won is because the guy who lost had a lapse in judgement not realizing when the rules say you cannot target someone during the first turn who has taken no actions and still is in their starting area that meant with a power as well as attacks
Munchoboy
03/30/2011, 17:07
if it has to do with first turn immunity then that has been a rule for a long long time. and the reason that the winner won is because the guy who lost had a lapse in judgement not realizing when the rules say you cannot target someone during the first turn who has taken no actions and still is in their starting area that meant with a power as well as attacks
And I fail to see how that is the responsibility of anyone (or anything) except he who made the oversight.
As it has been many times before, we will have an updated version of rules being observed at Worlds/GenCon. It behooves folk interested in playing at that level to be as familiar as possible with the 2011 Rulebook.
Indomitable says "This character can use Willpower."
Anytime a figure "can use" something, you never had to cancel it. All you had to do is decide on a action to action basis whether or not you were going to use it. Want to push a figure off their top click, just declare you are not using willpower. Not that it matters much, but after that action the willpower comes back. Canceling the willpower would leave it gone until the end of the turn.
Basically, deciding not to use a power is what you should have been doing, rather than canceling anything.
I'm really hoping that this is something that is addressed. I'd love to see things simplified. The splitting of hairs between "can use" vs. "posseses" or "ignores" vs "counters" vs "can't use" or "move" vs "place" has always felt counterintuitive. When we have to disregard the english language to make rulings, it's time to simplify. K.I.S.S. The whole reason we have a 24 page rulebook and a 150+ page FAQ is because of the lack of intuition that the game plays by. I really REALLY hope that this new rulebook reduces the confusion by no longer splitting these types of hairs.
NeoShazam
03/30/2011, 17:07
Maybe we'll be able to draw Line of Fire to Indoor Squares from Outdoor Squares.
ThorKnigh83
03/30/2011, 17:10
oh no im agreeing. I think its outrageous to make the statement that a rule book should be out a full 6 months prior to making it eligible for a championship. It is everyones responsibility to know the rules if they plan on competing in a World Championship. I was pointing out to the person saying because of a recent rule change that guy lost. No in fact the rules have had first turn immunity for quite some time now and were just given more clarity in the last rule book.
Munchoboy
03/30/2011, 17:11
oh no im agreeing. I think its outrageous to make the statement that a rule book should be out a full 6 months prior to making it eligible for a championship. It is everyones responsibility to know the rules if they plan on competing in a World Championship. I was pointing out to the person saying because of a recent rule change that guy lost. No in fact the rules have had first turn immunity for quite some time now and were just given more clarity in the last rule book.
Agree 100%.
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 17:31
Maybe we'll be able to draw Line of Fire to Indoor Squares from Outdoor Squares.
You can right now. What you cannot do is draw line of fire from outdoor squares to outdoor squares if it crosses indoor squares.
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 17:37
I'm really hoping that this is something that is addressed. I'd love to see things simplified. The splitting of hairs between "can use" vs. "posseses" or "ignores" vs "counters" vs "can't use" or "move" vs "place" has always felt counterintuitive.
Seem's pretty easy to me... Games need to have specific terms with specific definitions. If there isn't a difference between use and possess, or counter and ignore, or move and place, the game loses a lot of nuance and then you can't have things like Nightcralwer bamfing people around, or Sabretooth negating healing, or the Blob only taking a maximum of 1 damage as long as he has his special power.
If Nightcrawler was moving people, he couldn't use his power on figures that couldn't be moved. If Sabretooth countered healing, things like the X-Men TA and Wolverine's trait would still work. If the Blob didn't ignore damage dealt to him, psychic blast and exploit weakness would be able to get through on him.
Gentlegamer
03/30/2011, 17:53
if it has to do with first turn immunity then that has been a rule for a long long time. and the reason that the winner won is because the guy who lost had a lapse in judgement not realizing when the rules say you cannot target someone during the first turn who has taken no actions and still is in their starting area that meant with a power as well as attacks
The 2010 changed the rule from 'First TURN Immunity' to ]First ROUND Immunity.'
The rule was changed from
In the first round of the game, charactes belonging to a player can't be targeted, knocked back, attacked, or damaged until the beginning of that player's first turn. Further no, no characters can be knocked back, attacked, or damaged by opposing characters during the first round as long as they occupy the square in their starting area where they were placed at the beginning of the game.
to this
During the first round of the game, characters that have not been given an action or moved can not be targeted by opposing characters, knocked back, attacked, or damaged, unless a game effect that does so specifically states that it occurs at the beginning of the game.
The first limits being targeted until the beginning of a player's first turn. After that player's first turn, his characters could be targetted (but not attacked). The second added a slight tweak that made targeting off limits during the first round even when the player has had a turn already.
The final turned upon the second player attempting to Outwit an opposing character that would have been legal under the FF rulebook, but made illegal by the 2010 rulebook.
That subtle difference essentially decided the game in the first round.
The 2010 rulebook came out about 2 months before Worlds.
(SpeedBall)
03/30/2011, 17:58
wow double power action.....well I quit. Any big fig with indom, hypersonic, 5 damage and SS is going to kill half a team in one turn.
doc_monocle
03/30/2011, 18:13
wow double power action.....well I quit. Any big fig with indom, hypersonic, 5 damage and SS is going to kill half a team in one turn.
A double power action isn't something that every fig will be able to do. It's just a way of activating specific powers, in the same way power actions do now.
WhoaDirty
03/30/2011, 18:16
wow double power action.....well I quit. Any big fig with indom, hypersonic, 5 damage and SS is going to kill half a team in one turn.
Uh, way to not actually read the article.
rowdyoctopus
03/30/2011, 18:19
Only one fig can currently do a double power action, and that is the Iron Man/War Machine duo. They can only do that double power action once per game (unless mind controlled). Becoming an actual game mechanic, it is likely other figures in the future will have a power that is activated by a double power action.
Gentlegamer
03/30/2011, 18:20
Double Power Action ought to be called Super Power Action.
That's what I'm gonna call it. :)
Space Jawa
03/30/2011, 18:34
Rocket Raccoon is actually a raccoon, a genetically modified raccoon!
A genetically modified raccoon is still a raccoon. :noid:
gimrag17
03/30/2011, 18:35
I dig rule updates!
I don't think it should affect new players coming in. After all we're all going to be on the same boat when these rules kick in.
I'm excited to see the updates.
traitorarmor
03/30/2011, 18:38
QFT dear sir I want to have it all study it and soak it ALLLLLL In now. Now I am one of those so called "rules lawyers" but honestly if you don't have rules then we are just playing rockem sockem robots otherwise. I have never agreed with all the rules(how the f is batman not able to see through joker in stealth who's right next to him to outwit him?!?!?!???) but from a stand point of the rules it makes sense.
Anti-Batman-Joker-spray...........and sadly Bruce only had 23 and 1/2 hours of prep-time for it. ;)
wow double power action.....well I quit. Any big fig with indom, hypersonic, 5 damage and SS is going to kill half a team in one turn.
Bye! :waves: No take backs.
But for clarity sake, now that you are gone and not able to come back, Double Power actions are not 2 power actions. It is a specific type of power action that will place 2 tokens on the figure.
Double Power Actions
The double power action is a new types of action that you can give to your characters. Really, we’ve actually had this mechanic for a while, we just didn’t know it. Iron Man/War Machine will be errata’d to reflect this new type of action.
To use a double power action, your character would need to be cleared (no tokens assigned). As you resolve a double power action, instead of giving the character one action token, you’d give it two, instead. These tokens would deal pushing damage normally. While the mechanic is simple, this allows designers to create effects that are slightly higher powered for certain characters.
ws059 U Iron Man/War Machine
Team: Avengers
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt::bolt:
Points: 300
Keywords: Armor, Avengers, Force Works, West Coast Avengers
m-winga-duod-indomitableg-starburst12121841211184101118410111831010183101018310101839917399173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Adaptive Response Armor: When Iron Man/War Machine uses the Duo Attack ability, they may choose Incapacitate, Penetrating/Psychic Blast, or Ranged Combat Expert and use that instead of one or both ranged combat attacks.
(Special) All-Out Assault: Once per game, give Iron Man/War Machine a power action that places two action tokens on them. Iron Man/War Machine possess [1 range] for this action. They can make up to 4 close and/or ranged combat attacks as free actions. An opposing character may only be targeted once during this action. After resolving this action, Iron Man/War Machine are dealt 1 unavoidable damage.
Oh, since you are on your way out, which is a shame by the way, can you do it retroactively back to when WoS came out? Don't want to seem indignant after the fact. :p:p
GroovyBoy
03/30/2011, 18:45
Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules
Computer, elaborate...
jackstar7
03/30/2011, 18:54
I dig rule updates!
I don't think it should affect new players coming in. After all we're all going to be on the same boat when these rules kick in.
I'm excited to see the updates.
Get off that boat, you weirdo!
:grin:
minideadpool
03/30/2011, 18:57
Ive seen it mentioned. But does this mean we can PC our own stealthed ally now?
NeoShazam
03/30/2011, 19:06
You can right now. What you cannot do is draw line of fire from outdoor squares to outdoor squares if it crosses indoor squares.
Nope.
Look at Post # 41.
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308968&page=3
Indoors can shoot out, Outdoors can not shoot in or perplex or outwit or LoF. The only way to break Walls that are "Indoors" from the outside is by a close combat attack.
FlavorableDeez
03/30/2011, 19:24
I was excited until I realized that GSX could've been that much better with the double power actions for powers. Mutants, they always get the shaft.
Munchoboy
03/30/2011, 19:27
Mutants, they always get the shaft.
Nightcrawler, Professor X, Magento, et al. disagree with your assessement.
TheMoonMonster
03/30/2011, 19:33
If anything, it looks like (and I hope) the focus is going to be on not only making some changes to rules that most people never thought made any sense (colossal movement, having to turn off stealth on your own turn to PC), but expanding gameplay mechanics.
I am totally DOWN for that. Anything to streamline character cards and provide new power options is completely awesome. I'm wondering how we'll handle old special powers with the non-optional vs. optional though....possibly just choosing not to use the power vs. outright cancelling it?
FlavorableDeez
03/30/2011, 19:46
Nightcrawler, Professor X, Magento, et al. disagree with your assessement.
You say that now (and I agree), but I'm sure I'll be right once the double power actions take effect
Munchoboy
03/30/2011, 19:48
You say that now (and I agree), but I'm sure I'll be right once the double power actions take effect
Care to place money on that?
If Nightcrawler was moving people, he couldn't use his power on figures that couldn't be moved. If Sabretooth countered healing, things like the X-Men TA and Wolverine's trait would still work. If the Blob didn't ignore damage dealt to him, psychic blast and exploit weakness would be able to get through on him.
And that "nuance" is what leads to things that should not happen. Should Nightcrawler be able to *Bamf* Mjolnir? Or Galactus?
Sabretooth is another example of this. The definition of healing in this game is (paraphrasing) to turn the dial counter-clockwise. ANY effect that does so should be considered healing, be it via a team ability, trait, power or object, so it SHOULD be countered by Sabertooth.
This is what I mean by being counterintuitive. These are exactly they types of situations that simplified wording and wordings that make sense and don't split hairs should counter.
FlavorableDeez
03/30/2011, 20:05
Care to place money on that?
Money? A new set just dropped, you can't ask me to make monetary bets. I think I owe someone my first born still for some of the Duo pieces.
My reasoning is this: Some rule changes don't really change the power levels of the game and some do. For example, when they started doing special powers with cards the power levels and capabilities of characters went up. There also was a huge increase in power from Mutations and Monsters over to Crisis (my opinion, of course) completely hosing mutants. I think that this rule change (double power actions), while only applicable to some I'm sure, will nevertheless increase the power level of the game once again. I'm not against it by any means, I just wish they had've done this before GSX dropped. And yeah Prof X, Nightcrawler, and Mags are the bee's knees, but I would argue that a few sets down the line with double power actions becoming more regular you'll be reaching for them less and less.
But what do I know? I've spilled beer on the keyboard twice while typing this.
Jarimy123
03/30/2011, 20:49
Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules, shouldn't a rule book be in effect for at least a year before it is used as part of a championship? It seems like there isn't enough reasonable lead time for this 'high level' competition.
A rulebook ought to be in effect for around 6 months before being used in a 'championship' to work out the bugs and give players sufficient time to get used to it.
Anyone playing at that level should know the rules. If they don't, shame on them. And he fully took responsibility for not remembering the rule.
Jarimy123
03/30/2011, 20:52
Computer, elaborate...
In the championship round the guy playing Metron/Thing went first. He carried thing with Metron full movement, and tried to outwit Shazaam/Black Adam's HSS. It was pretty much over from that point.
Gentlegamer
03/30/2011, 21:24
In the championship round the guy playing Metron/Thing went first. He carried thing with Metron full movement, and tried to outwit Shazaam/Black Adam's HSS. It was pretty much over from that point.Shazadam's team went first, though Shazadam wasn't given an action. Next turn, the opponent moved Metron up to counter Shazadam's HSS, which would have been legal under FF rulebook, and had been changed in the 2010 rulebook, which had only been recently published.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD35MwaSFoU
It was a subtle tweak that led to a rules mistake that decided the match. A 'high level' game shouldn't be played under rules that have only been out for a relatively short amount of time, in my opinion. Even the 'high level' players get tripped up.
Given the history of HeroClix, any rules set needs adequate time to be played, clarified, and errata'ed.
And considering the Rules Arbitrator posted a glaring rules error for his Free Actions example, even he needs more time with the rules.
Roderic_Cliche
03/30/2011, 21:53
So the cancelling thing. . . . This doesn't affect Indomitable, right? Isn't the current wording on that "This character can use Willpower," so you could just opt not to use it, still? There's nothing to cancel here, right?
RSIxidor
03/30/2011, 22:15
A genetically modified raccoon is still a raccoon. :noid:
That's exactly my point! Ch'p and B'dg were NEVER annimals! Detective Chimp and Rocket Raccoon WERE!
So the cancelling thing. . . . This doesn't affect Indomitable, right? Isn't the current wording on that "This character can use Willpower," so you could just opt not to use it, still? There's nothing to cancel here, right?
Yes, under the current rules and what's shown of the new ones so far, you do not have to cancel Willpower or Indomitable, you simply do not use it.
So the cancelling thing. . . . This doesn't affect Indomitable, right? Isn't the current wording on that "This character can use Willpower," so you could just opt not to use it, still? There's nothing to cancel here, right?
We won't know until we see the new PAC. It may have been reworked. The whole "May Use" mechanic may change too. We just don't know enough yet to be sure. As it stands right now, you are correct.
raging_madboy
03/30/2011, 22:42
i hope things become simplified. There are so many power, traits and interactions to remember that we shouldnt be concerned with has, posses or can/may use. If figures access a power then thats what they can do. This would make assigning feats nice and simple.
Also make traits completely unoutwitable. If its a trait then you cant outit it, period. No matter how its worded. It gives traits that special feeling i think they were meant to have.
This game is a great game, I love it and want it to grow so that they keep making sets and i have somewhere to play for prize support. For the game to grow it has to be accessible.
Right now teaching the game seems nearly impossible or at least super-frustrating.
While im typing, (and hoping someone is reading and agrees with me and can change things) i'd like to toss in my 2 cents on Nightcrawler. Please reconsider and make his 'dragging' figures like carrying. In other words he should have to start his movement next to them to drag them. It seems comic accurate and a little more balanced in my mind.
larthosgrr8
03/30/2011, 23:22
why are ppl looking for loopholes already. dbl power actions give you two tokens. this does usually let you do something awesome, but only once! like it said, im/wm will be re-worded.
i love the stealth change too. suck it nightcrawler and other stealthed characters. i also like the no-canceling! now you have to take whatever u want. no more ignoring.
Gentlegamer
03/30/2011, 23:25
why are ppl looking for loopholes already. Looking for loopholes is the core skill of 'high level' play.
Web_Spinner
03/30/2011, 23:50
I'm hoping for a major revamp of theme team bonuses, and for Wildcards to copy keywords! (The latter is fairly far-fetched...)
That's flipping Brilliant!
Rep to you!
I didn't see an answer to this question.
In the new ruling, during my turn I give an action to a character to attack or move. I can also during my turn give an action to that same character for a theme team PC???
Web_Spinner
03/31/2011, 00:04
I didn't see an answer to this question.
In the new ruling, during my turn I give an action to a character to attack or move. I can also during my turn give an action to that same character for a theme team PC???
I was wondering that too.
I thought a character had to have ZERO actions to use Theme team prob...
crazymike2501
03/31/2011, 00:06
in the cooking field we have a saying, " THE MORE YOU "SCREW" WITH IT, THE MORE YOU "SCREW" IT UP!!!"
" well, that's what i heard."
VikingRS
03/31/2011, 00:09
i love the stealth change too. suck it nightcrawler and other stealthed characters. i also like the no-canceling! now you have to take whatever u want. no more ignoring.
Ummm, what?
The only change for Stealth seems to be that now your opponent can Prob them on your turn and you don't have to "turn off" stealth to perplex and Prob on your turn.
And what do you mean by "take whatever you want"?
I'm not trying to be rude, I just would like some clarification....
enter aqua
03/31/2011, 00:16
I'm coo wit dis. I'm cool wit all of dis
rowdyoctopus
03/31/2011, 00:17
Nope.
Look at Post # 41.
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308968&page=3
Indoors can shoot out, Outdoors can not shoot in or perplex or outwit or LoF. The only way to break Walls that are "Indoors" from the outside is by a close combat attack.
What an awful ruling. As pointed out in that thread though it was ruled the way I thought it worked back in August, so I didn't make it up, haha.
Sabretooth is another example of this. The definition of healing in this game is (paraphrasing) to turn the dial counter-clockwise. ANY effect that does so should be considered healing, be it via a team ability, trait, power or object, so it SHOULD be countered by Sabertooth.
This is what I mean by being counterintuitive. These are exactly they types of situations that simplified wording and wordings that make sense and don't split hairs should counter.
But then Sabretooth's power counters things that cannot be countered. So then what? We take away traits? We make traits counterable? Or we just have a ton of exceptions, like Sabertooth's power, that have to list specifically that they counter things that cannot be countered.
How do you counter the Eleha'al Vine?
Steelmage2000
03/31/2011, 00:40
What an awful ruling. As pointed out in that thread though it was ruled the way I thought it worked back in August, so I didn't make it up, haha.
But then Sabretooth's power counters things that cannot be countered. So then what? We take away traits? We make traits counterable? Or we just have a ton of exceptions, like Sabertooth's power, that have to list specifically that they counter things that cannot be countered.
How do you counter the Eleha'al Vine?
Sabertooth's power does not counter any healing it just prevents it from happening as long as that character takes 3 or more damage from Sabertooth.
i hope things become simplified. There are so many power, traits and interactions to remember that we shouldnt be concerned with has, posses or can/may use. If figures access a power then thats what they can do. This would make assigning feats nice and simple.
Also make traits completely unoutwitable. If its a trait then you cant outit it, period. No matter how its worded. It gives traits that special feeling i think they were meant to have.
This game is a great game, I love it and want it to grow so that they keep making sets and i have somewhere to play for prize support. For the game to grow it has to be accessible.
Right now teaching the game seems nearly impossible or at least super-frustrating.
While im typing, (and hoping someone is reading and agrees with me and can change things) i'd like to toss in my 2 cents on Nightcrawler. Please reconsider and make his 'dragging' figures like carrying. In other words he should have to start his movement next to them to drag them. It seems comic accurate and a little more balanced in my mind.
i have to disagree. the one thing i've really come to enjoy about this game is the way some powers are actually more accurate than they used to be. to be honest, they used to be just loose interpretations of the actual power a character possessed (or could use ;)).
when Nightcrawler does his teleport thing against an enemy think of it like this.......
he BAMFS close to them, grabs them and BAMFS away. thing is, when he BAMFS to them, he is coming from somewhere else. ie: not adjacent to them. so, he HSS to them (loose interpretation of BAMF), slaps them and then HSS (BAMF) away with/without them.
sure, its frustrating to play against, but when you finally smack the living BAMF outta his little blue face, it's so satisfying :devious:
and i will say this again, y'all think he is borken or annoying or inaccurate....wait til they make the 'new and improved' 'accurate' Superman. i get the feeling Webster's Dictionary will read:
bro·ken
–verb
1.
past participle of break.
–adjective
2.
[B]Superman
rowdyoctopus
03/31/2011, 01:05
Sabertooth's power does not counter any healing it just prevents it from happening as long as that character takes 3 or more damage from Sabertooth.
I know that. I was responding to another poster's hypothetical simplification that Sabretooth's power should just "counter" all forms of healing.
catherine
03/31/2011, 01:20
Exciting. But I wish I could read the .pdfs now. Must...wait... :confused:
Exciting. But I wish I could read the .pdfs now. Must...wait... :confused:
agreed, but must be patient. ;)
mavjonpaul
03/31/2011, 02:04
Interesting Stuff can't wait to see the whole rulebook, be a good way to spend my downtime in Afghanistan reading up and studying the new ways.
Looking for loopholes is the core skill of 'high level' play.
QFT.
It's an ongoing theme in HC history that in order to become a better player, you have to improve your knowledge of the rules. Strategy/Tactics skills are less important.
Just last night I've been talking about this with a friend: we've both been playing HC since year one (in other words: almost a decade) on a regular basis and we both still don't know all the rules and implications by heart. Most of the time we can figure out any upcoming questions by referencing the various documents, but isn't this a statement about the game as a whole?
HC is tremendously complex and also turning more complex with every new piece of written text released. All the "real" Special Powers (i.e. those that are not just combinations of PAC-Powers) have the potential to create new rules interactions.
IMO, complexity does not automatically lead to more depth in a gaming experience. If you look at classic board games like chess, the rules are fairly simple but still the game itself goes very deep into strategy/tactics. In many cases genius lies in the simplicity of things.
HC plays like a lumbering giant, i.e. you have to think very carefully about figure placement, action sequences and all that, because one mistake there can really screw you up. IMO, that's not really what I would expect from a comic book combat/action game. It's fitting for skirmish or war-sim games where strategical positions (like hill tops or city gates) are very important, but in a medium where everybody jumps around like crazy, smashes folks through walls, throws opponents off of roofs and all that, I'd prefer a more dynamic approach to positioning and a stronger focus on those aspects that actually define the genre (team play, willpower/second wind, wild action, scheeming, traps, "sacrifying pawns", "not getting anywhere with brute force", etc.).
Ehm, well, okay. Got a little sidetracked there.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new rules, because this will be a new chance to simplify a few things and maybe streamline the game as a whole a little bit.
vlad3theimpaler
03/31/2011, 02:44
Looks good, Norm. I am excited about the 2011 rulebook and foresee good things in the future of Heroclix.
An article like this serves ZERO purpose.
Don't tease me, and don't try to coddle me by prepping me for new rules. Hand em out and let the chips fall.
A post like this serves zero purpose.:cheeky:
In all seriousness, the article serves several purposes--It tells us that the new rulebook is coming, gives us an estimated timeframe for when it will go into effect, and explains some of the upcoming changes.
Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules, shouldn't a rule book be in effect for at least a year before it is used as part of a championship? It seems like there isn't enough reasonable lead time for this 'high level' competition.
A rulebook ought to be in effect for around 6 months before being used in a 'championship' to work out the bugs and give players sufficient time to get used to it.
I've heard this argument before, and frankly, I think it's insulting to Massu to imply that this is the only reason he won the game. Sure, it certainly was to his benefit, but it's not like we can say with any certainty that the results of the game had been different if it had not occurred.
wow double power action.....well I quit. Any big fig with indom, hypersonic, 5 damage and SS is going to kill half a team in one turn.
I don't think that term means what you think it means. Double power actions do not equal taking 2 power actions. It's 1 action that places two tokens on a character to balance a powerful effect.
why are ppl looking for loopholes already. dbl power actions give you two tokens. this does usually let you do something awesome, but only once! like it said, im/wm will be re-worded.
i love the stealth change too. suck it nightcrawler and other stealthed characters. i also like the no-canceling! now you have to take whatever u want. no more ignoring.
I wouldn't call it "looking for loopholes." I would call it "wanting to understand the rules." I don't see what's so wrong about that.
I didn't see an answer to this question.
In the new ruling, during my turn I give an action to a character to attack or move. I can also during my turn give an action to that same character for a theme team PC???
You didn't see an answer because themed team rules haven't been addressed yet. However, I will point out that probability control is not an action to begin with, so you don't "give an action" for using pc. You give characters an action token to use the themed team pc, but that's not the same. I see no indication that this is going to change.
i hope things become simplified. There are so many power, traits and interactions to remember that we shouldnt be concerned with has, posses or can/may use. If figures access a power then thats what they can do. This would make assigning feats nice and simple.
Also make traits completely unoutwitable. If its a trait then you cant outit it, period. No matter how its worded. It gives traits that special feeling i think they were meant to have.
This game is a great game, I love it and want it to grow so that they keep making sets and i have somewhere to play for prize support. For the game to grow it has to be accessible.
Right now teaching the game seems nearly impossible or at least super-frustrating.
While im typing, (and hoping someone is reading and agrees with me and can change things) i'd like to toss in my 2 cents on Nightcrawler. Please reconsider and make his 'dragging' figures like carrying. In other words he should have to start his movement next to them to drag them. It seems comic accurate and a little more balanced in my mind.
You realize that Norm wouldn't be posting this if the rulebook wasn't already in a state of completion, or at least near-completion, right? Giving feedback on what you think should be changed is futile.
Regarding traits, they already can't be outwitted. If someone is outwitting your traits, you're playing wrong.
Regarding Nightcrawler, that's not even a rulebook issue, that's a request for an errata on a specific figure (and is unlikely to happen.)
Questions
03/31/2011, 03:02
Regarding traits, they already can't be outwitted. If someone is outwitting your traits, you're playing wrong.
He's refering to something like Batman and Green Arrow's trait. You cannot Outwit the trait, but you can Outwit the Sharpshooter that they possess because of the trait.
When12Dawns
03/31/2011, 03:29
no one going to mention the very odd but somewhat funny gidget reference? http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/761/14549gidgetcomic.jpg
vlad3theimpaler
03/31/2011, 03:54
He's refering to something like Batman and Green Arrow's trait. You cannot Outwit the trait, but you can Outwit the Sharpshooter that they possess because of the trait.
I figured as much, but that wasn't what he said.
A_Higher_Level
03/31/2011, 04:26
The simplifying of actions by removing 'cancelled' is great; I was so bored of that ongoing technicality. Having no Stealth on your turn (while you attack) is great; that eliminates one argument (why can't I PC the guy shooting at me?)
This also resolves the problem of declaring an attack on your opponent in stealth to see if they will remember to declare that they are using stealth.
vlad3theimpaler
03/31/2011, 05:40
This also resolves the problem of declaring an attack on your opponent in stealth to see if they will remember to declare that they are using stealth.
Actually, it works the exact opposite of how you phrased it. All powers are assumed to be in effect unless the player says otherwise, so you wouldn't be able to declare the attack in the first place.
lastone8012
03/31/2011, 06:42
...SERIOUSLY...I thought the purpose of the last rules book was to avoid, the reason why they're making ANOTHER rule book !!!
vlad3theimpaler
03/31/2011, 06:52
...SERIOUSLY...I thought the purpose of the last rules book was to avoid, the reason why they're making ANOTHER rule book !!!
Huh? Could you try that in again, but in complete thoughts? I'm afraid I really can't see what you're trying to say there.
I disagree. I trust the judgement of those intimately involved in the project.
Given the scope and scale of such an undertaking, as well as how often folk get things confused concerning Rules we've had since the very beginning, I think there is ample evidence that a paced introduction is the proper way to go.
Don't like it? Don't read the articles, and wait for the inevitable release of the full Rulebook.
well since the example they used for Double Power Actions was 'give gidget a double power action if gidget is occupying water terrain, gidget can use quake as a free action and deals penetrating damage.' I think they get confused by the rules too.
Quebbster
03/31/2011, 07:46
well since the example they used for Double Power Actions was 'give gidget a double power action if gidget is occupying water terrain, gidget can use quake as a free action and deals penetrating damage.' I think they get confused by the rules too.
What's confusing about that example?
What's confusing about that example?
you are taking two action tokens to take a free action...
Quebbster
03/31/2011, 08:03
you are taking two action tokens to take a free action...
No you don't. If you don't take two action tokens you cannot use Quake at all. It's not that different from at least one existing Special Power:
CONTROL BOX: When he uses Mind Control, Psycho-Man does not take damage based on the point value of his target(s) when he uses Mind Control. Give Psycho-Man a power action and choose one of the following options: 1)Fear. Psycho-Man can use Quake as a Free Action. 2) Doubt. Choose a target opposing character. Until the beginning of your next turn, the target can't evade attacks, and damage dealt to the target can't be reduced to less than 1. 3) Hate. Choose a target opposing character 6 or fewer squares away to which Psycho-Man has a clear line of fire. Deal 1 damage to each other opposing character adjacent to the target.
Psycho-Man needs to be given a power action to use the non-MC aspects of his power. If he chooses Fear he gets to use Quake. However, it needs to say "as a free action" because without that he would just get the ability to use Quake, but could not actually use it because he cannot be given another non-free action that turn.
Hughesovski
03/31/2011, 09:23
So in the new rules Magneto will be able to TK 4 objects/ characters in a turn for a click of pushing?! - tasty times ahead
traitorarmor
03/31/2011, 09:40
So in the new rules Magneto will be able to TK 4 objects/ characters in a turn for a click of pushing?! - tasty times ahead
:sigh: No. Just........just, no.
On a related note, Groovy, I think your students reading comprehension is being challenged in this tread. :noid:
Gentlegamer
03/31/2011, 10:23
I've heard this argument before, and frankly, I think it's insulting to Massu to imply that this is the only reason he won the game. It's not the only reason he won the game. He also spammed Probability Control to make his opponent miss a key attack by re-rolling something like 5 times.
I hope something is in the new rulebook to reign in the number of times you can force a mulligan on die/dice rolls.
RULE OF MULLIGANS - Any game effect that allows a die or dice roll to be re-rolled can only affect a given throw once by the acting player and once by a player who controls the affected character.
So... anyone want to hazard a guess as to just *how* many times we'll need to explain the whole "double power action" thing to people?
I feel depressed at the stunning lack of basic reading comprehension already... :(
It's not the only reason he won the game. He also spammed Probability Control to make his opponent miss a key attack by re-rolling something like 5 times.
I hope something is in the new rulebook to reign in the number of times you can force a mulligan on die/dice rolls.
RULE OF MULLIGANS - Any game effect that allows a die or dice roll to be re-rolled can only affect a given throw once by the acting player and once by a player who controls the affected character.
90 minutes until today's article launches. Magic 8-Ball says "GentleGamer will probably not be unhappy"
Gentlegamer
03/31/2011, 10:27
HC plays like a lumbering giant, i.e. you have to think very carefully about figure placement, action sequences and all that, because one mistake there can really screw you up. IMO, that's not really what I would expect from a comic book combat/action game. It's fitting for skirmish or war-sim games where strategical positions (like hill tops or city gates) are very important, but in a medium where everybody jumps around like crazy, smashes folks through walls, throws opponents off of roofs and all that, I'd prefer a more dynamic approach to positioning and a stronger focus on those aspects that actually define the genre (team play, willpower/second wind, wild action, scheeming, traps, "sacrifying pawns", "not getting anywhere with brute force", etc.).
I want to play the game you're describing!
This is motivating me to revive the 'Superhero Miniatures' project . . .
90 minutes until today's article launches. Magic 8-Ball says "GentleGamer will probably not be unhappy"
"Lo, the probbing Munchkins shall tear at their beards and rend their garments.."
NeoShazam
03/31/2011, 10:49
What an awful ruling. As pointed out in that thread though it was ruled the way I thought it worked back in August, so I didn't make it up, haha.
Agreed. I love the Armor Wars map and have been breaking down walls (from range) forever to create better opportunities.
It is a funny ruling that might pwn Cosmic Spidey or outwitters but otherwise is too powerful. With a HSS brick or long chargers you gain a huge advantage against running shot characters ( only flying running shot sharpshooter in the game is WL Green Arrow ).
I hope something is in the new rulebook to reign in the number of times you can force a mulligan on die/dice rolls.
RULE OF MULLIGANS - Any game effect that allows a die or dice roll to be re-rolled can only affect a given throw once by the acting player and once by a player who controls the affected character.
Interesting.
90 minutes until today's article launches. Magic 8-Ball says "GentleGamer will probably not be unhappy"
Now THAT sounds interesting!
And here. We. Go.
ATrainWreck
03/31/2011, 11:09
"Lo, the probbing Munchkins shall tear at their beards and rend their garments.."
PLEASE leave their garments un-rended ...:confused:
Seriously in just the first article I think it will be amazing for the game and helpful to new players, a more straight forward and to the point set of rules. And enough time to make sure everyone is on the same page for Gen Con....:cool:
:a-sharpshooter:
Howard Brock
03/31/2011, 11:22
I actually like the rule changes I have read thus far, even though I believe in the saying " If it aint broke don't fix it. That being said my problem is this: Each time we do massive rule changes (and we are talking about core rules here) it confuses players (especially new ones) and causes fierce debates. The problem is that there are rule books floating around all the way back to Infinity Challenge that you can still buy off the shelf. It isnt like where I have worked before that when a change occurs to a document a new revision is isssued and the old revisions are trashed.
My point is this, instead of doing mass changes all at once wouldnt it be easier to infuse these changes a little at a time? Maybe add in the stealth change this month followed by
another next month.
I dunno, I can handle the rule changes myself and adapt to them, I just worry about other people and the frustration that will occur.
(stretches) AHHhhhh... (sniff) Bring it on..!
I didn't see an answer to this question.
In the new ruling, during my turn I give an action to a character to attack or move. I can also during my turn give an action to that same character for a theme team PC???
You didn't see an answer because themed team rules haven't been addressed yet. However, I will point out that probability control is not an action to begin with, so you don't "give an action" for using pc. You give characters an action token to use the themed team pc, but that's not the same. I see no indication that this is going to change.
While it is true that Probability Control is not an action, maybe the real issue from the example described in the article is that Ozymandias was used for a Theme Team PC, but had already been assigned an action (two actually). From the Rule Book (pg. 21): "A character can't be chosen to use this benefit if it already has two action tokens or if it has already has been given an action on the turn this benefit is used."
Hughesovski
03/31/2011, 12:25
:sigh: No. Just........just, no.
On a related note, Groovy, I think your students reading comprehension is being challenged in this tread. :noid:
Reading it again I am wrong. Simply actions that they may include on new characters. Like a souped up special power rather than open to what we already have.
Kite-Man
03/31/2011, 13:02
Because my games aren't slow enough with long pauses to check double-check OLD rules...
A_Higher_Level
03/31/2011, 14:13
Actually, it works the exact opposite of how you phrased it. All powers are assumed to be in effect unless the player says otherwise, so you wouldn't be able to declare the attack in the first place.
Not so much when dealing with powers that let you 'use' stealth.
Questions
03/31/2011, 14:23
Not so much when dealing with powers that let you 'use' stealth.
When a character "can use" a "passive" power like Stealth through a special power, etc. the power is assumed to be in effect unless you indicate that you are not using it.
A_Higher_Level
03/31/2011, 14:57
When a character "can use" a "passive" power like Stealth through a special power, etc. the power is assumed to be in effect unless you indicate that you are not using it.
Well, you know what happens when you 'assume'. :p
Clixkilla
03/31/2011, 19:17
I can't imagine what kind of monster huge super-dee dooper powers will cost 2 tokens.
vlad3theimpaler
03/31/2011, 21:11
It's not the only reason he won the game. He also spammed Probability Control to make his opponent miss a key attack by re-rolling something like 5 times.
Then I would suggest not saying, "Considering that last year's Worlds Championship was essentially decided by a player not realizing a small tweak had been made in the 2010 rules" which makes it sound like that was the only reason he won.
So... anyone want to hazard a guess as to just *how* many times we'll need to explain the whole "double power action" thing to people?
I feel depressed at the stunning lack of basic reading comprehension already... :(
I imaging we will have to explain it many, many, times. And I also imagine that there will still be people at GenCon trying to use it to take two power actions.
Not so much when dealing with powers that let you 'use' stealth.
Actually, yes, it works exactly the same, except that you replace "cancel" with "not use."
Well, you know what happens when you 'assume'. :p
We follow the rules correctly?
Hold on, so stealth will only be active durring ur opponents turn right? so does that mean that Big Figure just became a whole lot better for his points?
Questions
04/01/2011, 01:33
Hold on, so stealth will only be active durring ur opponents turn right? so does that mean that Big Figure just became a whole lot better for his points?
We need to see the final wording, but maybe. :)
So...
sorry if that has already been dealt with but I've a question re the new Stealth. since it only seems to work on opponents turns now, does that mean that Stelth doesn't protect you from opponents PCers anymore when You attack??
So...
sorry if that has already been dealt with but I've a question re the new Stealth. since it only seems to work on opponents turns now, does that mean that Stelth doesn't protect you from opponents PCers anymore when You attack??
The actual wording of Stealth has not yet been previewed. So let's hold our questions on that till it is. I suspect the previews will be over by this time next week.
The actual wording of Stealth has not yet been previewed. So let's hold our questions on that till it is. I suspect the previews will be over by this time next week.
OK, sorry :)
The actual wording of Stealth has not yet been previewed. So let's hold our questions on that till it is. I suspect the previews will be over by this time next week.
Is the "Climbing the Mountain" article scheduled to be released today or will that wait until next week? Your answer will help calm me enough that I won't be hitting refresh non-stop on heroclix.com haha
Is the "Climbing the Mountain" article scheduled to be released today or will that wait until next week? Your answer will help calm me enough that I won't be hitting refresh non-stop on heroclix.com haha
Climbing the mountain requires me to take some pictures, so it will be a Monday release. that said, my hope is to finish writing ALL of the articles this weekend (well, Sunday, I've got 2 events to play in on Saturday). If I do, then Monday's article will also lay out the exact schedule for the rest of the previews (and the rulebook/PAC will be public by the time of the final article)
Climbing the mountain requires me to take some pictures, so it will be a Monday release. that said, my hope is to finish writing ALL of the articles this weekend (well, Sunday, I've got 2 events to play in on Saturday). If I do, then Monday's article will also lay out the exact schedule for the rest of the previews (and the rulebook/PAC will be public by the time of the final article)
Excellent. Thanks for the answer, it'll help with my OCD lol. Looking forward to the rest!
Gentlegamer
04/01/2011, 15:15
Climbing the mountain requires me to take some pictures,
3D terrain made standard in HeroClix.
confirmed
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