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ol_Dut
04/09/2011, 23:39
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=15657" align="left" style="width:200px;">ol_Dut’s LE Review
FEATURING
GSX #102 CABLE

Step right this way for a completely unfair and unbalanced look at GSX’s Cable LE. It’s the most lopsided fight in LE Review history!

Click on Full Story for the full story.

ol_Dut
04/09/2011, 23:59
Heroclix made it a good long time without Cable. Maybe you missed him, perhaps you didn’t, but he finally arrived with the full REV and LE treatment in Mutant Mayhem. While there really wasn’t much mayhem in that set, there sure were a lot of mutants. That was 2004. Now, here we are in 2011 and out comes Giant-Sized X-Men, or as I’ve come to refer to it: Mutant Mayhem Part Deux. It’s got just as many mutants per capita, and there’s even an arguable level mayhem thanks to figures like Magneto and Juggernaut, and a host of Special Powers and Traits. Also, for the first time in seven years, we’ve got a new Cable figure (LE #102).

The only other Cable figure in MM2 is the Cable/Deadpool duo. Now it really wouldn’t be fair to compare the LE against this figure, because even though he’s got three BFG’s, he’s only one man. This means we’ve got reach down deep in the tacklebox, below the Hammer of Thor and Secret Invasion, underneath the Sinister, Armor Wars and even Fantastic Forces figures to pull out and dust off MM Vet Soldier X (Cable) so that we’ve got the abilty to compare and contrast. If your collection is anything like mine, make sure you’ve got plenty of rope, a canary, and a lunch or two because it’s a long way down to that level and it’s twice as far back up.

In a way, however, it’s quite fitting that we’ve got to go back in time in order to do a review on a time travelling character who loves to do just that himself. On the other hand, it’s also going to be like watching Justin Bieber go five rounds with Brock Lesnar. Extremely bloody, one-sided and fast, with lots of people saying, “That’s gotta hurt.” and “Wow! I didn’t know you could fold a person into a shape smaller than a lunchbox.” No, I’d actually enjoy that. It would be more like watching an air race from LA to Dallas between a five-year-old kid throwing some balsa wood gliders and the Blue Angels – they’d be done and the kid wouldn’t have made it out of his back yard. It’s that level of pointless and sad. So, now that it’s clear that this will in absolutely no conceivable way be a fair fight, let’s continue.

Here’s how MM Veteran Soldier X (Cable) looks for those who either don’t remember or may never have seen one.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=15658

#075 V Soldier X (Cable)
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 106
Keywords: Future, Soldier, Warrior
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8111638101638101527915279142781426813267132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

And here’s GSX #102 LE Cable

#102 V Cable
Team: None
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 140
Keywords: Armor, Future, New Mutants, Ruler, Six Pack, Soldier, X-Force, X-Men
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7111737101728101728917289162911184911184810173810173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Lord Protector of Providence: Cable can use Barrier, Defend, Leadership, and the Flight ability.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=15656

GSX LE #102 Cable’s Gains vs. MM #075 Veteran Soldier X (Cable)
Looking at his dial, you’d swear that LE Cable took Charlie’s Master Card and just went out and started spending like a drunken sailor. But when you take into account that LE Cable’s cost only went up by 34 points, you realize that either: A.) He's a good bargain hunter, B.) He had a lot of coupons, or C.) He's one heck of a shoplifter, because he got an insane amount of upgrades for a very modest point increase.

Starting off the long list of goodies we have one click of life, and the Armor, New Mutants, Ruler, Six Pack, X-Force and X-Men keywords. This opens the door for an awful lot of theme teams, and more life is always welcome.

While the numbers on his Speed track are not really the story here, the powers are an entirely different matter. The LE gains Stealth (which takes some interesting hits in the new PAC), Charge, the always exciting Hypersonic Speed and the much more ho-hum but accurate Phasing. Although many may have preferred a carry-over of Running Shot from the previous model, Charge is certainly an acceptable substitute and there are endless possibilities with those HSS clicks.

On his Attack track, there are also upgrades aplenty. For starters he gains two clicks of 11 attack and two clicks of 10 attack. There is an obvious mid-dial lull (if you can call 9 attacks a “lull”) sandwiched in the middle, but he starts and ends with very strong attack values. Further, once the Ranged Combat Expert and the Close Combat Expert run dry, LE Cable’s got three clicks of Penetrating/Psychic Blast. The beauty of it is that they also arrive with HSS and Phasing to make sure that Cable can bust out of any potential base-to-base situation and actually use this late-dial power. Glorious!

Defensively, Cable gains a disgustingly ridiculous array of things like Regeneration, two clicks of gratuitous late-dial 18 Impervious, and two end-of-dial clicks of equally insane 17 Invulnerable. Isn’t this the kind of dial that folks with no friends, reeking of Mountain Dew, Cheetos and desperation, design in their basements and try to use at local tournaments only to get mercilessly laughed out of the place by everyone in the joint? Yes. Yes, it is. And if you ever wonder what happened to that kid, folks, it hurts me to say this, but it looks like he got paid to design LE Cable’s dial. Who’s laughing now, baby? Who’s laughing now?

But wait! Don’t order yet, because too much is never enough. There’s more, More, MORE! LE Cable also gains two clicks of Close Combat Expert and four clicks of the Lord Protector Special Power that lets him use Barrier, Defend, Leadership, and the Flight ability. He also gets one more click of 3 damage and two clicks of 4 damage. To make it sillier, Lord Protector shows up on his HSS clicks. So do the 11 attacks. So does the 4 damage.

So to sum up, when Cable gets Hypersonic, he can fly, has an 11 attack, has an 18 Impervious defense and does 4 damage. Really. And it’s not Superman. It’s Cable. Thanks desperate Cheeto basement Dew boy!

GSX LE #102 Cable’s Losses vs. MM #075 Veteran Soldier X (Cable)
After all of the above, all I’ve got to say is who really cares what the LE gives up?! He’s already caught the leprechaun and won the lottery. But for the sake of completeness, we should note that the LE drops the X-Men team ability, the Warrior keyword, Running Shot, Telekinesis, Outwit and click of Toughness. Out of all of that, all I really care about is the Outwit. But so what? Look at that greedy wheel-barrow full of luscious madness he gets? Losing the X-Men TA is annoying, but please re-read the previous sentence and deal with it.

But, never one to back down from a beating a dead horse, let’s continue. LE Cable also gives up the ability to have no powers for his last three clicks. Solider X, for all of his 102 points has nothing going on at all at the end of his dial. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. I haven’t seen that much white in one place since I last played “Hide the Cotton Balls in the Snow Drift During a Blizzard”. Trust me, it’s a great way to spend a Saturday on the frozen tundra. OK. No it isn't. We lost a lot of good men that day, and even now, years later, whenever some mentions a certain frozen DQ treat which must not be named I look for a large, kanagroo-like animal to carve open and crawl inside for warmth. But the bit about the whiteness is totally true. And it should be noted that though George Lucas may no longer be able to make a decent movie, his winter survival tips are top-notch.


And look at the sculpt! The new LE has three guns. Soldier X just has one and a whole lot of yellow. Plus, he’s just standing there with this vacant look on his face. It’s like he’s trying to understand the bus schedule and whether that weird feeling in his stomach is the result of too many chalupas or something even more sinister. The new LE Cable has this real Clint Eastwood meets the Wild Bunch vibe to him. He will punish you and punish you well. It’s a look that lets you know you know that as his opponent, you’ve lost even before the first die has been rolled.

Considering all of the above, gentle reader, you have no doubt discovered one other thing that LE Cable has lost. He’s lost the ability to suck.

If ol_Dut had to Choose
GSX LE #102 Cable vs. MM #075 Veteran Soldier X (Cable)
Back to the depths of the tackle box with you REV Cable. And same to you LE Nathaniel Summers! We’ll have no more of your ilk darkening our clicky games. Your day in the sun was brief and now it’s gone, never to return. Know that you’ll never see the light of day again, unless, millions of years from now, after the earth gets swallowed by the sun you’re the only ‘Clix that somehow survives the catastrophe and the aliens who find you have no idea what to do with you so they just use their funky alien glue to glue you to the dashboard of their spaceship as they race home to tell their freaky alien families that those foolish humans have finally met their fiery and cataclysmic end. That’s all you’ve got to look forward to.

Every single time I need to field a Cable (by himself), I’m picking the LE. He’s simply got too much going on to even think about the dismal, pathetic, worthless and weak alternatives. He’s also one of a few figures that I’m going to relentlessly push into the bottom half of his dial so that I can tap into that keg of foamy, delicious powers and numbers.

Considering the upgrades he’s undergone and just how slick that dial is, I know I’m going to feel like some sort of dirty, cheating weasel for using him to mercilessly and merrily whoop-up on my foes. But I’m OK with that. LE Cable it is!

Tune in next week to see another review or yet another mutant! Thanks for reading!

Repulsor rage
04/10/2011, 00:51
Soldier x doesn't have super senses. It'd be fairer to compare him to Nathaniel Summers or the experienced Cable. His rookie was also very useful.

The main thing Nate has over his le is outwit the best power in the game and the X ta. With his father makes so his best clicks never go away. That and I like how he's more accurate for Messiah War.

Boozehound
04/10/2011, 00:56
I'm curious why all the versions of Cable weren't used for a comparison.

ol_Dut
04/10/2011, 01:04
Soldier x doesn't have super senses. It'd be fairer to compare him to Nathaniel Summers or the experienced Cable. His rookie was also very useful

Thanks for pointing out my coding error on X's dial. Don't know how that happened.

As far as comparisons go, in my book all of those MM REVLE Cable figures were pretty similar. The Rookie is significanlty lighter in every capacity vs. the new LE, and even though he's got some late-dial Incap, that's not going to do much of anything to tip the scales away from the new LE. MM's Nat Summers is similarly as uninspired as every other MM LE. The Kids just phoned these in. Old Nat Summers may have been the tallest short person, but he's nowhere near to playing in the same league as the new LE Cable either.

Back in the day, fans had to like the old MM Cables. They were the only Cables we had. To deny them was to deny yourself the abiltiy to field a character you loved. They have a nostalgic quality, I'm right there with you on that. Today, however, there's something significantly better to play when a Cable needs playing.

CowboyBebop
04/10/2011, 01:05
It's too bad we didn't get a Cable more in line with his usual self. This dial is amazing but it sure doesn't feel like Cable.

konasavage
04/10/2011, 01:26
I've used the new Cable alot, and he has only been killed once. I use the LE Archangel to taxi him around and hide in stealth taking shots with RCE. I love that people think that they have him down, and he gets HSS with a kick butt special power. I will be running X-Force with Cable teams for years to come.

ol_Dut
04/10/2011, 01:33
I've used the new Cable alot, and he has only been killed once. I use the LE Archangel to taxi him around and hide in stealth taking shots with RCE. I love that people think that they have him down, and he gets HSS with a kick butt special power. I will be running X-Force with Cable teams for years to come.

Yeah, he really feels like one of those figures you have to take down in one turn, because if you just give him a good hit or two, it's lights out for you. If you can't do that, avoid him as best as possible until you can do it or have no other choice.

Roderic_Cliche
04/10/2011, 01:37
I ran the new Cable on a New Mutants theme tonight with the New Mutants ATA and Cypher cracking the Hellions X-Men team ability. . . . It was fun, for me at least. :) Cable pushed once and was healed back up thanks to the borrowed X-team. He never even got to his Hypersonic stuff, and he played just fine!

saturnflight
04/10/2011, 01:37
It's a shame my modded Cable is on a Soldier X dial... and that I can't bring myself to move him to the new LE and destroy that valuable new piece...

mccordlarsen
04/10/2011, 01:42
It's too bad we didn't get a Cable more in line with his usual self. This dial is amazing but it sure doesn't feel like Cable.

I disagree. The only thing I wish he had was the TK. Other than that he is the perfect representation of his "fighting with Silver Surfer" glory days of the ever loved Cable and Deadpool comics. I wouldn't mind another version however of "depowerd" Cable of his final days with Hope, but I would probably only have it for nostalgia sake and never play with him.

Dragon_Rose
04/10/2011, 02:17
He looks so good! Can't wait to try to get him!:g-starburst:

Tim Drake
04/10/2011, 03:26
ol_Dut, you've outdone yourself here. "Unfair and unbalanced" the review may be, but it's also freakin' hilarious. Thanks, I needed that! :grin:

archmage78
04/10/2011, 03:47
Right on and as snarky an article as you are bound to read. Excellent!!!

clameire
04/10/2011, 04:39
you should have compared the new LE Cable to the Old LE Nathaniel Summers.
=> he has something on his last clic
=> he has the mutant keywords AND the X-men team ability
=> he is 100 pts
=> he is still great except for defense value (easy to make up for it with some character with defend)

Soldier X already was a loser compared to experienced and LE version back in Mutant Mayhem time
So i think this comparison is flawed and biased.

The new LE Cable has the worst flaw any x-men figure could have in my opinion : it has the x-men keyword and no x-men TA. That's a complete miss from wizkids part in my view.

tidge
04/10/2011, 07:42
flatmatt played this LE and the WoS Deadpool in 300 points just yesterday. I thought the team was much nastier than most 2-figure teams.

silversurfr77
04/10/2011, 07:56
Ok....first and foremost...GREAT FREAKIN' ARTICLE.....Funny AND on point. Rep to you sir :)
Secondly, i won this guy a few weeks back and played him the folowing week. He was awesome!!! I've already posted a couple other times about the team i played and how it went down....but every time someone mentions this new New Cable, i just have to chime in. He is my new favorite figure!!!

Aslan
04/10/2011, 09:18
Great article!!! I have the GSX LE Cable & he's the best!!! I use him with my WOS Deadpool with the rest of the X-Force team members. They have won many matches for me!!! Anyone who talks bad about the new Cable are just haters.

fastcat99
04/10/2011, 09:21
Great article. Super props on recognizing the importance of Mountain Dew to the life of the game. This takes me back to an article about Supernova Doom and his screaming lament about no Mountain Dew in the cooler.

And I like the new piece. One I definitely must have!

NeoShazam
04/10/2011, 09:43
Nice review.

As more of a DC fan it drives me bonkers that Cable has that back end dial (they seem to be lobbing HSS on "powerful" marvel characters whether they deserve it or not -- Ms. Skrullvel, Cosmic Spider-Man , etc). His powers sound like Superman in a blind taste test but are better than any of the NECA Supermen, and he has HSS which no normal Wonder Woman has.

Tim Drake
04/10/2011, 09:57
Nice review.

As more of a DC fan it drives me bonkers that Cable has that back end dial (they seem to be lobbing HSS on "powerful" marvel characters whether they deserve it or not -- Ms. Skrullvel, Cosmic Spider-Man , etc). His powers sound like Superman in a blind taste test but are better than any of the NECA Supermen, and he has HSS which no normal Wonder Woman has.

Yet. With a Superman-themed set coming out, we'll see what's around the pike.

And you've got to realize that Marvel Comics doesn't use super speed the way DC does. They just don't write characters that fast, with the exception of a few of the cosmic-powered ones like Silver Surfer and any Captain Universe-type (so yeah, CSM should undoubtedly have it).

That being said, it's an issue of game balance. It would be horribly lopsided for there to be such readily available DC figures with HSS as Superman and Flash without some Marvel figures to balance it out. They have to give it to characters like Ms. Marvel and Sentry. Not just Quicksilver. And Cable, on his "Messiah" clicks, probably deserves it if you're going by that paradigm.

dkrmguy
04/10/2011, 12:28
I am going to run a New Mutants team with him first chance I get. His older versions are missing this keyword & the I am glad to see the New Cable has it.

vectin
04/10/2011, 12:40
Well played Sir...well played...

magicmarvel
04/10/2011, 12:47
Is it just me or are they trying to kill off every heroclix from all the past sets?I would love to see dial maker to see how they came up with cables points?It's cool to make a beatstick but it should cost you.This cable should be around 220pts to my figures.

maddragon13
04/10/2011, 13:52
The new LE Cable is a beast. He's probably one of the best point for powers characters the game has ever seen. He's absolutely lethal through-out his whole dial. And to top it off, he's most dangerous when he's close to death and gets his HSS. And with all his keywords, he'll be seeing alot of play on many of my teams over the next few months, if not years!!!

VictorySaber
04/10/2011, 14:07
who needs the x-men TA when you can put him on a theme team with Elixir, Domino, X-Force Archangel, and other sneakies? Elixir'll heal HIM and the rest of the team if they huddle around for the action

ol_Dut
04/10/2011, 14:25
you should have compared the new LE Cable to the Old LE Nathaniel Summers.
=> he has something on his last clic
=> he has the mutant keywords AND the X-men team ability
=> he is 100 pts
=> he is still great except for defense value (easy to make up for it with some character with defend)

Soldier X already was a loser compared to experienced and LE version back in Mutant Mayhem time
So i think this comparison is flawed and biased.

The new LE Cable has the worst flaw any x-men figure could have in my opinion : it has the x-men keyword and no x-men TA. That's a complete miss from wizkids part in my view.

I just want to understand one thing before I say anything else on the subject: Is it your contention that either the old E Cable, or the old LE Nat Summers, or both are better than the new LE Cable?

From your post that's the impression that I get, but I want to be sure.

Cap Cheesesteak
04/10/2011, 15:02
Well, if it were sculpt vs. sculpt I'd still give it to the old Cable. M&M was a totally rad set for good sculpts.

larthosgrr8
04/10/2011, 15:34
i actually do't thik he's all that good. base him, hit him. once you him down a bit, hit him a lil more and he's done. sure his hss clicks are nice, but for 140 points, he's not good enough up front. i can see him doing well, but i've beat him every time so far. i don't like clicks that you have to push to get nasty.

Aronskrull
04/10/2011, 15:35
I'm sure somewhere out there in the vast darkness cheeto basement boy says "you're welcome" and "where's my goddamn money" :P

GuideOn187
04/10/2011, 16:16
The le cable from mm and the one from gsx have diffrent roles. The one from gsx is normally used as a primary beater the one from mm is a secondary beater bolth do there jobs very well.

Ross...
04/10/2011, 16:36
The new version is much better, very cost effective for the point value.

WestCoastAvengers
04/10/2011, 18:27
Nice review! I hope to win this figure.

mccordlarsen
04/10/2011, 18:46
you should have compared the new LE Cable to the Old LE Nathaniel Summers.
=> he has something on his last clic
=> he has the mutant keywords AND the X-men team ability
=> he is 100 pts
=> he is still great except for defense value (easy to make up for it with some character with defend)

Soldier X already was a loser compared to experienced and LE version back in Mutant Mayhem time
So i think this comparison is flawed and biased.

The new LE Cable has the worst flaw any x-men figure could have in my opinion : it has the x-men keyword and no x-men TA. That's a complete miss from wizkids part in my view.

What are you talking about? Cable, has at some points worked with SOME members of the X-Men, but has never been an "X-Man". The closest thing he's ever done to becoming part of the core "X-Men" is when he led a team of X-Force into the future to stop the attack on Utopia. It's a PERFECT fit that he has the X-Men keyword and not have the X-Men team ability.

Now he can team up with Cyclops and Cannonball without being part of the "team" as has always been.

NeoShazam
04/10/2011, 18:59
Yet. With a Superman-themed set coming out, we'll see what's around the pike.

And you've got to realize that Marvel Comics doesn't use super speed the way DC does. They just don't write characters that fast, with the exception of a few of the cosmic-powered ones like Silver Surfer and any Captain Universe-type (so yeah, CSM should undoubtedly have it).

That being said, it's an issue of game balance. It would be horribly lopsided for there to be such readily available DC figures with HSS as Superman and Flash without some Marvel figures to balance it out. They have to give it to characters like Ms. Marvel and Sentry. Not just Quicksilver. And Cable, on his "Messiah" clicks, probably deserves it if you're going by that paradigm.

Ms. Marvel and Sentry deserve it...Silver Surfer deserves it, but Skrull Ms. Marvel, Cable, and CSM don't strike me as deserving it. Can't you make them powerful without HSS ? If the point of Traits and Special Powers were to make figures more accurate why are they using HSS as a catch all ?

Trying to explain it a different way, GSX SR Wolverine is a powerful Wolverine, but he doesn't have Impervious.

Mirror Master
04/10/2011, 20:59
I have one word to say about the new Cable: he is broken. He would be cool in a matchup versus nightcrawler, Lamppost bats, Batman and Catwoman, and Namor (you know the one I am talking about). I will not play him, he just takes a lot of fun out of the game, for both players. I am sure I will lose to him.

GoatMaster
04/11/2011, 05:03
Cable was a proper X-Man, he was a member after The Twelve, when Cyclops was gone. And he deserves HSS on those clicks, as they are representing when he went toe to toe with Silver Surfer.

clameire
04/11/2011, 05:19
I just want to understand one thing before I say anything else on the subject: Is it your contention that either the old E Cable, or the old LE Nat Summers, or both are better than the new LE Cable?

From your post that's the impression that I get, but I want to be sure.

What i say is : The comparison would have been fairer by taking the LE nathaniel into account since soldier X is clearly not the most cost-efficient of the old REV-LE set. And even if the new LE would have probably won, you would have seen more interesting stuff in the old ones to compare to if you would have used the LE Nathaniel instead of Soldier X. Clearly, this comparison is biased and less interesting than it could have be.

What are you talking about? Cable, has at some points worked with SOME members of the X-Men, but has never been an "X-Man". The closest thing he's ever done to becoming part of the core "X-Men" is when he led a team of X-Force into the future to stop the attack on Utopia. It's a PERFECT fit that he has the X-Men keyword and not have the X-Men team ability.

Perhaps because i'm a fan and user/abuser of the x-men TA, i feel like the lack of it is a huge miss. For me, in a x-men team or in x-force (since most x-force have this TA) - i could play the old one over the new one only because he is cheaper, has outwit and has the TA

More than a problem of comic accuracy, it's a problem of gameplay/comboability/usability for me, to have any x-team related figure not having the x-men TA. Exactly like having a defender with the keyword but not the TA or a sinister sindicate with the keyword but not the TA, that's a "hole" in the synergy between figs of the team. Of course, the same problem doesn't occurs with team abilities like batman or superman or avengers who are "stand alone" abilities. But for abilities that work "together", it's an important consideration. At least, i'm disapointed he doesn't have this TA and this will definitely make me play him less than if he had costed a few point more, or be a little less powerfull, and have the TA.

UncannyAvenger
04/11/2011, 11:15
What are you talking about? Cable, has at some points worked with SOME members of the X-Men, but has never been an "X-Man". The closest thing he's ever done to becoming part of the core "X-Men" is when he led a team of X-Force into the future to stop the attack on Utopia. It's a PERFECT fit that he has the X-Men keyword and not have the X-Men team ability.

Now he can team up with Cyclops and Cannonball without being part of the "team" as has always been.

Actually, Cable has been a full member of the X-Men at two different junctures:

1) After "The Twelve" storyline when Claremont returned to the books and Nathan was on the team with Jean, Storm, Beast, and Gambit. They did stuff like fight the Neo and enhance Claremont's over-the-top scripting and near-deification of mutants in general. Cyclops was assumed dead, so Nathan wore his father's visor on his costume as a tribute.

2) During the pre-"Messiah Complex" time when Rogue had become a squad leader and had a team with Iceman, Cannonball, Lady Mastermind, and Mystique, with Sabretooth involved as well. It was actually during this time that Cable was apparently killed by Gambit and Sunfire when they targeted him for assassination.

The time that Cable had the power to fight the Surfer 1-on-1 came when he wasn't actually a member of any team, and was reluctantly bonded to Deadpool, making this figure accurate in that aspect.

The gripe I have about the LE's design is that all of it should have been commensurate with the "Protector of Providence" power set. The Stealth and guns part of the dial is cool, but I don't like that they tried to cram them together when they actually didn't exist at the same time in Cable's history. My thought: the LE would have been much better if it had been a Magus/Silver Surfer power level and design, and save the Stealth/Charge/Shooter stuff for another more "street-level" version to replace the sucky E and V MM versions. The Rookie had its uses, and I used the LE from that set with Trickshot to attain some great victories around that time... before he got hit and needed Nanobots or X-Men TA to get knit back together.

I'm actually thinkin that the mid-dial shift in the most recent version is something of a retroactive/corrective overcompensation in design: we paid 100pts for the old version to get 4 clicks of usefulness on a 7-8 click dial, which sucked, but now, we pay 150pts for a WHOLE dial of usefulness at a great discount! Well, as long as I don't consider the comic inaccuracy of the whole thing, I'll say "Thank you, WK. On behalf of Nathan Chrisopher Charles Dayspring Askani-Son Summers, I accept your overcompensating apology... Now make a good Wolverine."

clameire
04/11/2011, 11:43
well, trying to make the "full history" of a clix all along its dial is something i highly dislike about GSX. There are some of the figs that have "the feeling of being at one point of his story on clic 1" and "being at another point of his story on clic 5"
It's bad. Each clix should be, in my opinion, a representation of the character at one point (only) of his carreer. And if we need multiple version, then do multiple versions, but please WK/Neca do not mix them into a single figure just to "try to reach more customers"
It's bad.

ol_Dut
04/11/2011, 12:03
What i say is : The comparison would have been fairer by taking the LE nathaniel into account since soldier X is clearly not the most cost-efficient of the old REV-LE set. And even if the new LE would have probably won, you would have seen more interesting stuff in the old ones to compare to if you would have used the LE Nathaniel instead of Soldier X. Clearly, this comparison is biased and less interesting than it could have be.



Perhaps because i'm a fan and user/abuser of the x-men TA, i feel like the lack of it is a huge miss. For me, in a x-men team or in x-force (since most x-force have this TA) - i could play the old one over the new one only because he is cheaper, has outwit and has the TA

More than a problem of comic accuracy, it's a problem of gameplay/comboability/usability for me, to have any x-team related figure not having the x-men TA. Exactly like having a defender with the keyword but not the TA or a sinister sindicate with the keyword but not the TA, that's a "hole" in the synergy between figs of the team. Of course, the same problem doesn't occurs with team abilities like batman or superman or avengers who are "stand alone" abilities. But for abilities that work "together", it's an important consideration. At least, i'm disapointed he doesn't have this TA and this will definitely make me play him less than if he had costed a few point more, or be a little less powerfull, and have the TA.

I'm going to reject that last bit you're saying there. Either it's always a problem when a figure doesn't have a TA, or it isn't. For me, I don't appreciate Batman figures without the Bats TA, Spideys without the Spidey TA, etc. You can's simply say it's no big whoop when someone like Bats doesn't have the TA because it's a standalone thing. TA's are either important or they're not, you can't have it both ways.

And let's take a quick look at these other Cable dials, shall we?

#213 LE Nathaniel Summers
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 100
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal810163810153891527914278142681326713267122KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#074 E Cable
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 96
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal810163810153891527914278142681326713267122KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#102 V Cable
Team: None
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 140
Keywords: Armor, Future, New Mutants, Ruler, Six Pack, Soldier, X-Force, X-Men
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7111737101728101728917289162911184911184810173810173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Lord Protector of Providence: Cable can use Barrier, Defend, Leadership, and the Flight ability.

Looking at E Cable and Nat Summers, well, all they have is Running Shot. LE Cable has Stealth, Charge, HSS and Phasing. Plus the numbers are better. I'm thinking LE Cable wins here.

Let's look at the attack track. E Cable and LE Nate have mid to late-dial TK with attack values that go down to 8 and 7 for half of their dials. LE Cable gets late dial Psy Blast and his attack values are 10 or 11 for most of his dial and never go below 9. It looks to me like LE Cable wins here too.

Defensively, E Cable and Nate have Toughness for five clicks and numbers that dip all the way down to 12 and 13. LE Cable's got a color on every square, with Impervious and Invulnerable, and he's at a 17 for most of the game - his worst, one click of 16 D is equal to the best that E Cable and LE Nate have. Looks to me like LE Cable beats those two guys here as well.

Moving along to Damage, both of the old ones have two clicks each of RCE and Outwit, and they each have two 3 damage clicks followed by a train of 2's. LE Cable has three 3's and two 4's, plus he's got RCE, CCE, and the Lord Protector special power that gives him Barrier, Defend (with an 18), Leadership, and Flight. That's a big buch of stuff. My view is LE Cable wins here as well.

Sure he costs 40-44 more points than those other two blokes, but it seems to me your're getting what you pay for.

Now the X-Men TA thing, well, the LE doesn't have that you're right. Is that reason enough to sink him when he wins in every other category? Not in a million years. He's got a ton of keywords to make him gel with many, many theme teams, and Barrier, Defend and Leadership to make him a superb team player even without a TA.

Maybe you just really like those old Cable figures. Nostalgia is a powerful thing and keeps the collectibles market booming. It's undeniably strong. And heaven knows I like or love a great number of figures that many would consider to be bad or unplayable. The thing is, I know those figures to be bad or worse, but I like 'em and play 'em anyway.

That said, nostalgia doesn't trump the truth. The old MM E Cable and LE Nate figures start at a medium heat and quickly reduce down to a simmer. The new LE Cable starts on high heat and finishes at a rapid boil. For a modest point increase, the new LE Cable surpasses the old Mutant Mayhem figures and is certainly going to be my choice every time I need to play Cable. GSX LE Cable wins.

Maybe you don't think he's comic book accurate. Fine. But I encourage you to take the Pepsi Challenge on this one. Ignore the character's name, just know that that all of the above dials reflect the same character. Then look at the dials. Which one would you honestly play? I can't imagine just too many people taking a pass on that last dial with all the big numbers and pretty colors for 140 points.

clameire
04/11/2011, 12:18
I'm going to reject that last bit you're saying there. Either it's always a problem when a figure doesn't have a TA, or it isn't. For me, I don't appreciate Batman figures without the Bats TA, Spideys without the Spidey TA, etc. You can's simply say it's no big whoop when someone like Bats doesn't have the TA because it's a standalone thing. TA's are either important or they're not, you can't have it both ways.

Well, trying to say lack of a stand-alone TA is the same as the lack of a TA that *need* other figures to have it to function properly is not really thoughtful in my view. I can have it both ways. I just did.

Anyway, thanks for having taken my opinion into account and tried to make a more balanced and fair review by including the other figs. It's appreciated.

clameire
04/11/2011, 12:25
Looking at E Cable and Nat Summers, well, all they have is Running Shot. LE Cable has Stealth, Charge, HSS and Phasing. Plus the numbers are better. I'm thinking LE Cable wins here.

Well, opening clic on Running Shot is easier to use, and more usefull than opening clic on Stealth in my opinion.
GSX LE cable could have done better if those stealth clic could be given with x-men TA to others, making him go further to his interesting HSS clics, but he doesn't have this option. The old cable has the TA and can, even if his last clics are less usefull, be but back to those first usefull clix RS + outwit he has.

Let's look at the attack track. E Cable and LE Nate have mid to late-dial TK with attack values that go down to 8 and 7 for half of their dials. LE Cable gets late dial Psy Blast and his attack values are 10 or 11 for most of his dial and never go below 9. It looks to me like LE Cable wins here too.


Clearly, stat wise, the new GSX LE like much recent figures has better stats for the points. he wins hands down, you're right.

Defensively, E Cable and Nate have Toughness for five clicks and numbers that dip all the way down to 12 and 13. LE Cable's got a color on every square, with Impervious and Invulnerable, and he's at a 17 for most of the game - his worst, one click of 16 D is equal to the best that E Cable and LE Nate have. Looks to me like LE Cable beats those two guys here as well.


That's especially defensively, that like most old figures, the REV/LE set is having a hard time. Sure.
You can probably make up for it with some defend figures, but that would cost a lot more (ex : shadowcat XP 54 pts) than what the new GSX LE cost....

Now the X-Men TA thing, well, the LE doesn't have that you're right. Is that reason enough to sink him when he wins in every other category?


Sometimes yes. Especially if you play Cyclops...

That said, nostalgia doesn't trump the truth. The old MM E Cable and LE Nate figures start at a medium heat and quickly reduce down to a simmer.
The new LE Cable starts on high heat and finishes at a rapid boil. For a modest point increase, the new LE Cable surpasses the old Mutant Mayhem figures and is certainly going to be my choice every time I need to play Cable. GSX LE Cable wins.


No, the old Cable starts high and quickly becomes low. But he has means to be kept on his best clix. While the new GSX starts medium, goes very high, but could be difficult to keep on his best clix.

Thanks for this review. But i still have a slightly different (and more "both figures have uses") than what you seem to be thinking. Of course, i'm not a tourney player, just an x-men fan... so what do i know ? Anyway, i think i can share this opinion too.

The new Cable is nice. Would have been great if started on RS and have X-men TA... But he doesn't. So it's nice. Much more powerfull than rookie and veteran old ones... slightly more powerfull than old LE and XP ones, but these last two still have their uses. Is cable LE GSX a must have to compete for ? Perhaps not, except if you're a fan of the character or does'nt own the old ones.

siwulab
04/11/2011, 13:58
whats the point of comparing this with the old v any idiot can say the LE's better this is a waste of space

UncannyAvenger
04/11/2011, 15:34
Apples and oranges, boys. While comparing the Cables can be done, I believe the purpose of this "unfair and unbalanced" review was to actually call more attention to how good and playable the new Cable is over his long-nigh-uncompetitive incarnations from MM.

Although he could've been made better in the REV/LE sets, I believe MM Cable was part of what I refer to as the "two-dimensional character" design: designers got in their mind what a character might typically do in a given comic, and design their dial to do just that... and nothing else.

Thus, old Cable could pretty much just shoot people and Outwit them (probably because they didn't want to give him Psychic Blast as that was reserved for only certain situations/characters back then). No EE, no Stealth, no CCE, no ESD, no CR... just some vanilla powers in a vanilla sort of layout across 4 versions that were only numerically slightly different for any particular stat, despite the great variaton that could've been easily represented across the REV/LE spectrum. AND we had to deal with his bloated point cost on top of it!

New Cable is possibly the pendulum fully swung in the other direction. You essentially get two versions of the character in 1 form, more powers than the other version could've dreamed of, and great stats to ensure multi-situational whole-dial gameplay.

Again I say apples (two-dimensional shooter/outwitter/X-Man) and oranges (4clix shooter/brawler, 4 clix pseudo-Galactic Herald). New one is better, yeah, but wasn't that the point?

UndeadEnigma
04/11/2011, 17:02
I'm going to build a ridiculous 90's team with him!

tidge
04/11/2011, 18:38
Allow me to quote the "Limited Edition" review:

#102 V Cable
Team: None
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 140
Keywords: Armor, Future, New Mutants, Ruler, Six Pack, Soldier, X-Force, X-Men
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7111737101728101728917289162911184911184810173810173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Lord Protector of Providence: Cable can use Barrier, Defend, Leadership, and the Flight ability.

The old MM E Cable and LE Nate figures start at a medium heat and quickly reduce down to a simmer. The new LE Cable starts on high heat and finishes at a rapid boil. For a modest point increase, the new LE Cable surpasses the old Mutant Mayhem figures and is certainly going to be my choice every time I need to play Cable. GSX LE Cable wins.


I didn't write this earlier (too obvious?)...but the new LE Cable is an insanely scary figure for 140 points. The earlier versions are practically ignorable. The scariest part IMO is that the GSX LE is a brute of an early damage-dealer that once hit is very likely to morph into a brute of a damage dealer that is now supporting whatever teammates he has.

The figure also deserves an award for the best ever click of Regeneration: Whoops, did I just miss my regen roll and push onto 18 defense with Impervious?

Would the X-Men TA offer more options for this figure? Sure! But past experience with the X-Men TA and natural damage reducers hint that this figure would likely cost 20-40 points MORE...at which point you start to wonder what X-Men you wanted to team him with in the first place.

Tim Drake
04/11/2011, 20:50
Would the X-Men TA offer more options for this figure? Sure! But past experience with the X-Men TA and natural damage reducers hint that this figure would likely cost 20-40 points MORE...at which point you start to wonder what X-Men you wanted to team him with in the first place.

Persactly. I'm more than happy to sacrifice the X-Men TA on this Cable in order to keep the cost down. Not only that, but with the Regen and the likelihood of being backed by an Elixir, having another means of healing him would be both superfluous and just plain cheap.

Undeth
04/11/2011, 22:29
love new cable. tho i think his special power should be named "Consumed by the technovirus" bit it does jazz with when he replaced his mutant abilities and faked it with technologies

railot13
04/12/2011, 08:32
Well, if it were sculpt vs. sculpt I'd still give it to the old Cable. M&M was a totally rad set for good sculpts.

Are you serious? That was one of the sorriest sculpts in the history of heroclix! Cable is my favorite character in all of comics so naturally I love this dial and sculpt more than the old one. After seeing the dials stacked up the way the OP had them though, I must say that I do see the old dial in a different light. I was dissapointed with the old soldier X because of my love of the chracter and his lack of usefulness in the second half of the dial. I was a different player back then too though. LE Cable is head and shoulders better than Soldier X but now at this stage of clix i could field him very easily with an x-force theme. Cheap healer like elixer pluse the X TA could keep him topped out. LE Cable> MM REV Cables. Thank you Neca.

railot13
04/12/2011, 08:40
I'm sure somewhere out there in the vast darkness cheeto basement boy says "you're welcome" and "where's my goddamn money" :P

I am sorry and ashamed of my self guys.....I am cheeto man!.... Jk but this is for all the guys that ripped me a new one when I posted the article "How Cable should be". My Cable was more similar to the duo fig than the LE one with some of the powers like the Teleport and duo attack as a freebe. Mine was just that but no all powerful duo on top of it. Lol. Man it feels great! Yeaahhhaa!! Cable! For us Cable fans Neca did right by us on both figs.

railot13
04/12/2011, 08:53
well, trying to make the "full history" of a clix all along its dial is something i highly dislike about GSX. There are some of the figs that have "the feeling of being at one point of his story on clic 1" and "being at another point of his story on clic 5"
It's bad. Each clix should be, in my opinion, a representation of the character at one point (only) of his carreer. And if we need multiple version, then do multiple versions, but please WK/Neca do not mix them into a single figure just to "try to reach more customers"
It's bad.

I can somewhat agree about if a character is too busy it can be sort of anoying, but in no way shape or form should they ever go back to the REV glory days! I still have boxes of crap pre avengers that I can't get rid of if I tried!! Seems to me that really only Cable is in two versions in one dial. Whom else are you refering to? For me it is a big win as we have more versions of significantly less popular characters and have been made to wait like 5 or so years to get one. Or 2 counting the C/DP duo. :)

UncannyAvenger
04/12/2011, 09:34
I can somewhat agree about if a character is too busy it can be sort of anoying, but in no way shape or form should they ever go back to the REV glory days! I still have boxes of crap pre avengers that I can't get rid of if I tried!! Seems to me that really only Cable is in two versions in one dial. Whom else are you refering to? For me it is a big win as we have more versions of significantly less popular characters and have been made to wait like 5 or so years to get one. Or 2 counting the C/DP duo. :)

Let's see... do you wanna go by power sets or keywords or TAs?

clameire
04/15/2011, 08:47
I can somewhat agree about if a character is too busy it can be sort of anoying, but in no way shape or form should they ever go back to the REV glory days! I still have boxes of crap pre avengers that I can't get rid of if I tried!! Seems to me that really only Cable is in two versions in one dial. Whom else are you refering to? For me it is a big win as we have more versions of significantly less popular characters and have been made to wait like 5 or so years to get one. Or 2 counting the C/DP duo. :)

I never said they should come back to REV especially if they do REV the way they used to do it (different version of the same character at the same time period with just a few difference in point value, with most always one or two unplayable versions of it)

What i've said is that a character that is designed in a way that try to represent all the incarnations and versions of the character through many years of comics is both not realistic and not interesting. I would prefer them to release one version of a character depicting him at a precise time of its own history, then perhaps in another expansion, make another version of him depicting him at another stage of his life rather than have half his dial depicting him in a way, and the other half in another way. And also what i'm implying is that the REV mecanism could have been great if it was not applied to almost all characters (not all characters need to have different versions, only the most well-known, those who have great stories and a lenghty background or different power set from ages to ages in the comics) and if it was done the "right way" : means all version should have different approach, different cost, different power sets, bringing diversity to the game.

Hope that now my point is clearer for all.

extinctioners
04/16/2011, 16:53
What are you talking about? Cable, has at some points worked with SOME members of the X-Men, but has never been an "X-Man". The closest thing he's ever done to becoming part of the core "X-Men" is when he led a team of X-Force into the future to stop the attack on Utopia. It's a PERFECT fit that he has the X-Men keyword and not have the X-Men team ability.

Now he can team up with Cyclops and Cannonball without being part of the "team" as has always been.

In correct. He first officially joined the X-men on a team lead by Jean Grey in Uncanny X-Men 381 and then again on a Rogue lead team in X-Men 191 when he had the powers suggested in the LE figure.

UncannyAvenger
04/19/2011, 09:32
In correct. He first officially joined the X-men on a team lead by Jean Grey in Uncanny X-Men 381 and then again on a Rogue lead team in X-Men 191 when he had the powers suggested in the LE figure.

Actually, not quite- he had somewhat reproduced (via technology) a form of his old TK/TP powers that he lost after Surfer put him in a coma and he lost the powers suggested in this form. Even still, though, he did get near that level again when he bonded with the Mummudrai while on Rogue's team, although he didn't keep them (the alien got killed). The reason I wouldn't think of this form representing him in this clix is because he doesn't have the X-Men TA and his power names/descriptions point to the fight against the Surfer time.

Preacher13
04/19/2011, 21:46
I just played this and the WoS Deadpool as a 298-point a team. I lost against some rank and file JL pieces, but I really like this Cable. What a fun piece, and powerful too!