View Full Version : is OWAW Superman the alltime best character?
I think OWOW Superman is the best Character in the game of heroclix, what do you think?
first, I like his back "S" on his back and background on his chest. (the makers of the new movie must like it also)for that has been the more recent costume. I like it better but maybe it's just me. (Yet his pose still stinks).
Second, he is the only character in the game that has hypersonic speed, a distant attack and a decent attack of 3 damage. So in one turn he can go out of a hiding place, make a good distance attack on an enemy then go back to safety without even comming in range of this oponent.
Third, he's the only one that can use this same stratagy yet grab a heavy item and bash it over someone like Hulk, Bane or Doomsday doing up to 5 points of damage then running back to a place noone could hurt him and ding it ALL IN ONE TURN!!!
I tell you if OWAW Superman isn't the BEST Character he certainly is the funnest to play with! He brings fun back to the qame!!!
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 11:08
Did fun leave the game?
lol and here you see the basic poseur...dont' get too close, they bite...
biggs
it did for some, I understand a lot of the ternaments are mostly to win figs and not for fun.
Why shoudl you need the "best" figure in the game to have fun?
biggs
the Hypersonic attacks actually make Soaring worthwhile. Unfortunately at 236 points, he's hard to field. Plus, with all of the Outwit in DC, two outwitters can make him pretty useless.
as for the best ever? who knows? they haven't stopped makind them yet. we'll see. as for me, I say no. after all, how much of a 300 point team can you build around him? Iam all for team play, not single figs, so I guess I am biased and I will say NO HE IS NOT the best, cause he's not good for a team.
I think heroclix should always be "for fun" even if a prize is at stake. OWAW Superman helps insure this if played right.
There are tons of little suport characters you could build around him that would make an exelen 300pt team. Sure outwit could get him but if you make sure that you know where the outwit is you can make sure Superman is not in range or at least not in line if sight.
Kevlear, why do you need the "best" character to have fun with the game?
biggs
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 11:22
Originally posted by kevlear
it did for some, I understand a lot of the ternaments are mostly to win figs and not for fun.
I see your point, but no single figure is gonna stamp out that kinda of carpy playing style. Plus he is WAY vulnerable to outwit with that pitiful defense value.
he might be a bit pricey but with the inexpencive characters can help him makeup for it.
How low his defence doesn't matter if he is never in line of sight or range (which he could be moved in one turn, and as long as he has hypersonic speed he never has to break away). Not to mention his impervious, if you can role a constant 5 or six you can never be tuched. I heve roled that good sometimes. :)
de4dp00l
03/14/2003, 11:39
In a 200 point game, I'd have to say OWAW Supes is the worst figure in the game.
Just trying to add a little perspective.
A great 300 pt team with OWAW Superman could be:
Superman OWAW
Pyro V
Electra E IC
uhmm can you say black panther and thor? i'm pretty sure thor has the reach to get to superman what with that running shot and decent range....superman doesn't have 14 squares of hypersonic to play around with does he? or at least not enough to move in and then attack..
and you still haven't answered the other question I keep posing :p
biggs
I fielded a team of random figures against an LE Supes team and pounded him into submission without him even getting a hit... and I didn't have outwit!
Granted, I pulled a Nightcrawler in my random selection, but still... :) Vet Cyclops also helped.
And that team wouldnt' work too well....look elektra's alright, and pyro would be good for the barrier but cmon...
Give me Vet Thor, R Black Panther, Wasp, Bullseye and a medic or two and you'd be stomped....heck i could probably even use of my theme teams...Cap America, She Hulk, Wasp, Hawkeye, and R Thor....you'd have to push every turn to keep up
biggs
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 11:50
Originally posted by kevlear
A great 300 pt team with OWAW Superman could be:
Superman OWAW
Pyro V
Electra E IC
See, here's the problem with OWAW Supes and his prohibitive cost. Ironically, his incredible mobility has resulted in this teams downfall: lack of mobility
Elektra to Pyro: "Where'd he go now, Pyro?"
Pyro to Elektra: "I can't hear you! Bullseye just shot me in the ear!" <chuckle>
You never need the best charactor to have fun, heck you could have fun playing cops and robbers with the peeon charcters, everyone under 20 pts.
If you also give OWAW Superman a taxi or two he could go very far.;)
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 11:59
Originally posted by kevlear
You never need the best charactor to have fun, heck you could have fun playing cops and robbers with the peeon charcters, everyone under 20 pts.
If you also give OWAW Superman a taxi or two he could go very far.;)
Careful. That's a tactic characteristic of that non-fun, LE grubbing power game you complained about earlier. Since when does the last son of Krypton need Man-Bat piggy-backing him around?
I don't think Kal-El (aka OWAW Superman) would realy need a ride from someone unless you were playing a real game of hardball, Kal-El could just play it right back.
huh? i think that's what he was saying...you were the one who mentioned taxiing supes
biggs
I just Think OWAW Sups could just boost the fun, I think HSS is just the funnest power.
:D
DaLuvster89
03/14/2003, 12:11
The 300 point LE Supes team I've played is:
LE Superman 236
R Harley Quinn 27
R Vulture 15
E Shield Medic/Hydra Medic 16
R Thug 6
Perplex makes Supes more nasty than he already is. Vulture helps increase Supes' range. Thug is mobile blocking terrain.
Healer tries to heal when Supes gets to his Toughness/Defense of 15 click.
Sure, LE Superman is great. I usually play big point games w/ friends where it's more pheasable to fit him on your team. We have found that he is HIGHLY succeptable to Mind Control - it's worth the 2 clicks of MC damage if you can get Superman KO'ed out of it. Once you get him past his 3 clicks of Hypersonic Speed, he's pretty worthless. Even so, He is just about everyone's "Top pick".
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 12:12
Okay, I'll call off the dogs and give a partial endoresement to HSS being the most fun power.
I would think if you were going to use LE Supes, why not team him up with R Invis Girl? Oh yeah, HSS is fun :) I will say that
biggs
HSS is especialy fun using Supes with a good range.
Using Invisable girl would be awesome just watchout for those that are week and use tons of outwit characters or energy explosion.
Yes but then they'd have to outwit the Defense of Invis Girl AND Supe's Imperv....as for the Ultron Attack? If you have someone with a high attack and decent damage you can take him down pretty quick....after you punch a hole or two through his defense he becomes alot easier to hit. He may take out your invis girl, but hopefully you can knock him into his weaker clicks first
biggs
I_Blame_You
03/14/2003, 12:37
Originally posted by kevlear
HSS is especialy fun using Supes with a good range.
Using Invisable girl would be awesome just watchout for those that are week and use tons of outwit characters or energy explosion.
See there? Now you're losing me again. Why is someone 'week' [sic] for utilizing outwit and EE? In effect, you're saying "Just try to beat OWAW Superman...but don't be lame and use the BEST ways to beat him!"
How old are you kevlear?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to emply people who uses EE were week, I just think if anyone uses more than one outwit on a team dosn't have enought strengh or confidence in thier heroclix stratagy that they could take Superman down with out 2 outwitter. Even one outwitter Feels almost like they're cheeting yet two? that's just week.
alot of people think owaw supes is weak....if you can afford two outwitters on your team, waht's weak about it? as long as you're not using firelord or anything :)
biggs
I think outwit is like a blow below the belt, if you had two I think that means that you can't come up with any better stratagy then to pull the rug out from under then. Many other on hc realm proclamed that outwit shouldn't be used against defence, In som cases (like this) I think this might be a good idea.
If you are losing with OWAW Superman you don't know how to ues him well enough. But if you do I think you would realy having FUN.
DaLuvster89
03/14/2003, 14:07
kevlear-
Your last two posts were kinda... Silly. No offense.
Many other on hc realm proclamed that outwit shouldn't be used against defence, In som cases (like this) I think this might be a good idea.
Not being able to Outwit LE Superman's defense a "good Idea?"
Sure, for people who use him extensively! Lets make a 236 point Uber-Character even better by making him immune to Outwit, is what you seem to be saying.
Outwit is Outwit. I sincerely don't think they are going to change the way the power works so that defensive powers can't be Outwitted, no matter what some people's opinion of the power is. Besides, w/ LE Superman, Stealthed Outwitters should be your first target - Superman Team Ability, yo!
If you are losing with OWAW Superman you don't know how to ues him well enough. But if you do I think you would realy having FUN.
So losing w/ LE Supes has nothing to do with your opponent's skill level? :rolleyes: I dunno man. You seem to be having fun using him. Cool. It sounds like you win a lot. Also cool. But LE Supes is far from un-beatable, especially in a 300 point game.
newhorizon
03/14/2003, 14:24
OWAW Superman is only devastating on an outdoor map. Indoors, where he cannot soar, you only need to outwit his Impervious, and send in a hitter for one round. Supes looses HSS fairly quickly leaving you with an expensive meatball to beat around. Trust me, Joker, two Harley Quinns, Riddler, and the Flash made short work of Big Blue on an indoor map.
admittedly, Superman OWAW is a nearly worthless when he gets damaged passed his HSS but the key is to do everything posable to avoid this, then you got it made. I would think that Sups would have an easier time indoor for he could shoot than run behind some wall blocked from all attacks. ;)
Totally unrelated
If they make a LE Superman (not likely, but still..) will his name be Kal-El or Clark Kent..?
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 15:05
The flash is a pretty awesome figure too, with his HSS. I used him and nightwing and took out a well stocked team, and they never even got touched. Flash never came close enough to get hit.i think a team of R/E/V Flash could put up a good fight with the LE supes.
Kevlear, if superman is inside, then you can have someone block the exits, and keep moving in on him...or, if the other side has vision or another phaser, can just phase right through the wall and attack you...
biggs
3 seperate HSS attacks might be a good against the one Superman yet he still does have distant atack, super strength, and impervios which would make it so Flash couldn't hurt Sups without outwit, Flash has an attack of 1. He could make a standing HSS attack yet that would have requiered Sups to stay there which wouldn't be smart to him. ;)
Sups should be aware a phaser for that could happen. Yet if he was traped he should just make a new doorway and escape in one turn. :)
Kevlear, yes Supes is pretty good, but are you willing to admit he can be beat? lol you come up with an answer to everything...it's not always that easy...what if supes is stuck there with nobody else left on his team? it's gonna be tough to escape, he's gonna have to push to get away if the team has a few people left...
biggs
Just my 2 cents but I have never had any luck using OWAW Supes in 300 pts. You can only hit and run so long before someone can Outwit you, Mind Control you or smack you with a dumpster upside the head. You cant push him too hard, so that's an action every other turn while meanwhile your opponent is eliminating all your support pieces. And with all the taxis out there it is very hard to stay hidden all of the time. As far as soaring goes outwit can be used to knock you down to hovering as well. I dont' think I was using him poorly either I used just about every trick I could think of he just doesnt' make up his points - I can get 2 or 3 other good figures for his cost.
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 15:40
i think that the OWAW supes is the best character in clix. i have been a superman fan all my life (baby pictures to prove it) and i collect superman stuff. he's my favorite clix so far and i think it is right to make him the most powerul DC because superman is the most prominent character in the DC universe (probably the entire comic book universe.)
Fauntleroy
03/14/2003, 15:48
The alltime best clix is and always will be rookie thug.
Moving barrier, bases people and doesn't go awayafter a turn.
OWAW Supes vs R Thug? Is there even a debate?
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 15:53
huh?......what?
grubby91
03/14/2003, 16:01
Originally posted by Badges2
Totally unrelated
If they make a LE Superman (not likely, but still..) will his name be Kal-El or Clark Kent..?
sorry to tell you but they already made a LE superman in fact this thread is all about him
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 16:08
i think that there should be a set that includes a Unique superman in ceremonial krypton outfit and named kal-el. also, what do you think about a Jor-el figure?
Superman and any other character can be taken out if his supporting teamates suck. This is why I think he would work best in a lorger game like 400 or above, and maybe just for fun. But I have known of him to be the last one on his team standing and he was able to take out the whole opposing team alone.
de4dp00l
03/14/2003, 16:28
Originally posted by kevlear
Superman and any other character can be taken out if his supporting teamates suck.
And this is exactly why OWAW Superman is not even close to the best piece in the game. Unless you are playing at least a 500 point game, your support for Superman is going to be sketchy, at best, compared to a more balanced team. Even at 500, you're spending very nearly half of your points on a single figure. He's a good figure, and you can certainly win with him, but no more easily than with any number of other powerhouse piece.
While we're all expounding on the virtues/vices of LE Superman, I happen to have an extra, still in his original packaging. I will trade him for any CT unique, if anyone is interested, PM me. Just think, if you already have one, how powerful a team with 2 of them will be.
(And if anybody ruins my sales pitch by pointing out that you can't have duplicate LEs on the same team, I will bloody your nose).
rotflmao love that last line deadpool
biggs
could anybody disagree that he is about the funnest Character to play? and isn't this game all about having fun?
In my book Funneast = best
To me Funnest = Closest to a real comic book battle with good strategy and a close match, lots of drama that I could picture in my head
That's what funnest means to me :) And I don't like DC, so Supes isn't it....and heck I don't even like Thor that much, because I don't like Running Shot with him....When I picture Thor, I picture him charging into battle, not skirting the outsides
biggs
I'm not the biggest DC fan either but I do like Superman (andGL) and I know that OWAW Superman is close to real Sups, closer than any other version. Though I would give him more IP and higher defence and attack but the powers are right on.
KnightShade
03/14/2003, 17:32
I personally think that he is too powerful of a character to field most of the time. If you play small scale games he takes up way too much of your points to field in a well balanced team. Plus, c'mon, he is way o expensive with way to many powers, he is a flying target. I've seen him used in a lot of games were he simply flys over to the other side and end up with getting shot by the entire other them and well, he dies. I don't know I can just think of alot better things to do with the points instead of buying him
Everyone keeps saying that OWAW is not worth it because he is so expensive and can't be played but then why did they make so expensive characters like the Supermen Dr.doom V, Thor V etc.? I think they made him so you could have fun with them and not worry that they are to constricing. Why not just play him for fun like in a 1000 pt or even 2000 pt taems with your friends, that's the funnest way to play anyway I think. I would'nt waist him in a meesly little 300 pt game he was created for bigger and better things. Why constrict the point total that much? :rolleyes:
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 17:49
if you're taking the OWAW superman and letting him go to the other side and just get killed than you have no strategy. using him takes a plan, just like any other figure. If you use superman carefully he is able to take out a whole team, but it takes strategy. of course no character can win 100% of the time, but if you use him correctly than the OWAW supes has the best chance...
True, I'm glad someone sees the big picture I have been trying to paint. If you plan to use OWAW Superman you better use stratagy or he will be an easy target. Stratagy is the name of the game it is what makes this game so FUN that's why we're all here.:)
EXACTLY!!! I'm glad someone sees the big picture I have been trying to paint. If you plan to use OWAW Superman you better use stratagy or he will be an easy target. Stratagy is the name of the game it is what makes this game so FUN that's why we're all here.:)
Sory for that double post.;)
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 18:01
hero clix is like chess, in the strategy aspect, but you have to think even moer. but that's what makes it fun, and it's way cooler than chess and a lot more interesting, plus there are way more possibilities... endless. This superman just makes that more obvious that strategy is extremely important, and i agree kev, he is meant for bigger point games(isn't that abvious?) but if your slick you can use him well in a 300 point game, with the right team....
That's the way I always thought of Heroclix, just a hightly advanced and AWESOME version of chess. I like you rytardkalel
What do you think would be a great 300 pt team with him?
groovyfunk
03/14/2003, 18:24
Please do not get me wrong when you read what I have to say I use Sup all the time but like most people I have my issues.
1. I don't think owaw Sup needs to have leadership throughout his entire dial. Maybe the first few clicks but after that he needs some close combat expert like the other versions.
2. I also think he should have started out with a higher damage than 3. I mean come on.... it's Superman at his ultimate state.
3. I also think the defense should have started with 17. He is not like the Hulk where the madder he gets the tougher he becomes. He is already bad!
Again, just my opinion....:D
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 18:28
here's a 3 man DC team, OWAW supes V checkmate medic and V Black Manta, what about you?
(you could throw in a R Lackey for the fun of it to fill in the extra seven points too.)
True coments on OWAW Superman he's not perfect but still awsome.
if you believe in mixing DC and Marvel (which I do)
Superman LE+
Doombot E
Vampire Lackey V
Checkmate Agent R
and if you don't mix mabe:
Harley Quin R
Cheackmate agent V
Metropolis SCU V
to keep the other team buisy
just a couple Idea, there is so many more combinations.
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 19:33
good team, sometimes the lower point guys like lackeys and agents, can prove very useful. but obviously that superman is the driving forse of any team he's on. and i've always been partial to the HSS. it's a very valuable tool, i like it on flash, and it's even cooler on superman.
weezer_10
03/14/2003, 19:48
How does a...
- LE Superman
- V Robin
- E Huntress
- E Checkmate Medic (298 points total)
team sound?
rytardkalel
03/14/2003, 19:53
huntress is pretty much useless, at least a medic can heal. you'd be better off using a V checkmate medic and an E checkmate in place of huntress.
ericnelson
03/15/2003, 01:50
Originally posted by rytardkalel
huntress is pretty much useless, at least a medic can heal. you'd be better off using a V checkmate medic and an E checkmate in place of huntress.
Oh, I'm sorry, I just GOTTA chime in on this one!
Have you ever PLAYED Huntress? Especially the E version?
For a measly 23 points, you get a 9 attack, leap/climb for 3 clicks and RCE for two clicks. FOR 23 FRIGGIN' POINTS!!!! That is an awesome deal no matter how you slice it.
Never mind what you think of OWAW Supes (fun figure? Perhaps. "Excellent" figure? Too expensive), don't go dissing Huntress. I'll take a mess o' Huntresses ANY day! :D
actually I think Weesers team Idea would be awesome!!
I need to get myself a hunterss E and a Robin V to try it out
ericnelson
03/15/2003, 13:14
Originally posted by kevlear
actually I think Weesers team Idea would be awesome!!
Fun vs. effective.
Two different (but not necessarily mutually exclusive) ideas.
While I think that 300 point team WOULD be entertaining (and probably somewhat effective), I have found in playing HeroClix that you need to have a decent amount of figures (regardless of cost) to be competitive.
Here's what I'm talking about: the team is 300 points. Fine, looks okay. But remember what that means: 3 actions per turn, right? (Perhaps 4 with Leadership.) How many figures does the team have? 4? That means a WHOLE bunch of turns where you just pass the entire turn, or only move one or two figures.
Meanwhile, your opponent probably has a well balanced team with six or even eight figures, so he's constantly moving.
I get your point about fun, and believe me, I play HC for FUN, not for LEs or tourney wins (I'm not good enough for that anyway!). But I also play to be competitive, since that's what's fair to my friends, who are also playing to be competitive. That, for us, is what adds to the fun.
Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. :)
weezer_10
03/15/2003, 21:25
I don't know why a 4 piece team in a 300 point game would be so useless...
Nobody's forcing you to actually make 3 or four moves per turn. Yes, you can move one figure, then pass the others. A small team can still be very effective.
Just last night my friends and I played a 400 point game and I had on my team:
- E Superman (173 points)
- E Flash (82 points)
- E Robin (20 points)
- V Harley Quinn (42 points)
- E Checkmate Medic (17 points)
- R Steel (66 points)
400 points exactly.
Yeah I ended up being knocked out but not before taking out an E Firelord, E Things and R Human Torch with me (both of them had Marvel teams and could fit a lot more figures in their squads... that and they both hate DC with a passion).
ericnelson
03/15/2003, 22:41
Originally posted by weezer_10
I don't know why a 4 piece team in a 300 point game would be so useless...
Nobody's forcing you to actually make 3 or four moves per turn. Yes, you can move one figure, then pass the others. A small team can still be very effective.
Yeah I ended up being knocked out but not before taking out an E Firelord, E Things and R Human Torch with me (both of them had Marvel teams and could fit a lot more figures in their squads... that and they both hate DC with a passion).
It's just the dynamic of the rules the way that HeroClix (and Mage Knight) works. Think of it like card superiority in Magic (if you've played that). A player that uses all (or most) of his actions each turn is playing more efficiently, and therefore has more chances to negate random chance (i.e., die rolls).
I'm not saying that a smaller team can't win -- they certainly can. But you MAXIMIZE your chances by using all your actions. And what if all your figures are pushed? Your turn is gone. The other player has TWO turns in a row. I don't know many games where you can give up your turns and still have a good chance of winning.
But the bottom line is to have fun. If that's with small teams that have higher-than-average costs, fine. If that's larger, smaller-than-average cost figures, that's good, too. That's what's great about these games -- customizability. The game is what you make of it.
EVIL CAP
03/17/2003, 08:11
1 OWAW Superman is the best figure in HC thus far
2 A figure with Outwit isnt a threat if he doesnt have it after 3 clicks of damage
3 OWAW Superman loves Barriar characters to back him up.He buys lunch for Avalanche after every match
4 Number of actions doesnt really count if you can get what you need done
5 OWAW Sups Leadership is useless but it doesnt make the figure useless it just makes him cost more
6 Choose your attacks carefully.Dont shoot an annoying non-threat when you can shoot a medic an outwitter or a taxi
7 X-plosion is gonna help him alot.Paramedics Destiny Mystique Con Artists Iceman are all gonna be helpful for his cost cosiderations
gladiator1518
03/20/2003, 01:08
Originally posted by kevlear
Sups should be aware a phaser for that could happen. Yet if he was traped he should just make a new doorway and escape in one turn. :) I didn't think that any character,including the nearly unbeatable OWAW Supes,could break a wall and move through it on the same turn!!
EVIL CAP
03/20/2003, 02:33
Originally posted by gladiator1518
I didn't think that any character,including the nearly unbeatable OWAW Supes,could break a wall and move through it on the same turn!!
Well actually he can HSS lets him move and attack then he is a flyer so he can pass over the Hindering terrein it leaves behind
Danny Boi
03/20/2003, 15:09
Whats OWAW?
OWAW means "Our Worlds At War", a recent storyline from the comics.
I also think that It would be cool to have that superman but not play with it all the time: you could have an everyone against Superman (but you'll probably lose) or build him into a team.
As to Supes being The greatest, I think that it has very cool powers but as all other Heroclix figures, it can be defeated by strategy.
Bottom Line: I would like to have that Superman.
Our Worlds At War (OWAW) Superman is a Limited edition figure, one could buy him from diferent sights but I bought mine on e-bay for about $10+s\h and I think he was worth every penny for the fun that I have had and will have with him. Yet like ANY character if you play with him all the time it could get tiring. I usually reserve him for the times I am in the mood to have real fun.
Stratagy is the name of the game, and good team can beat any other good team with good stratagy.
Veggiehater
03/21/2003, 03:25
Well I can't really say if he is the best character in the game; Dr. Doom and Thor teams sure eat him for lunch for instance. But, I can say with certainty that, at least for me, OWAW Superman is the most fun character to use in clix! :cool:
You just get a sheer sense of power while using him which is unmatched by any other figure in the game. Superman is definately the one man power trip of heroclix. ;)
VH
MisterId
03/21/2003, 03:34
Stratagy is the name of the game, and good team can beat any other good team with good stratagy.
You Know What As Good As That Is You Can Have The Best Stratagies In The Game And Win Nearly Every Game. But I Have Seen Dice Flying, Figures Flying, And The Best Of Competetors Lossing From ####py Dice Rolls...
-E
metzgarob
03/21/2003, 04:04
back tracking a little
OWAW supes is the most powerful clix... to quote wizard's sale line
also outside of clix, superman is just the greatest guy EVER
gladiator1518
03/21/2003, 05:03
Originally posted by Veggiehater
Well I can't really say if he is the best character in the game; Dr. Doom and Thor teams sure eat him for lunch for instance. But, I can say with certainty that, at least for me, OWAW Superman is the most fun character to use in clix! :cool:
You just get a sheer sense of power while using him which is unmatched by any other figure in the game. Superman is definately the one man power trip of heroclix. ;)
VH Dr.Doom and Thor teams may eat him for lunch,but one on one,it is a TOTALLY different story. Whether your talking clix or especially the comics!!
predator322
03/21/2003, 11:00
ok i agree superman our world at war is great but not as great as he is in the comics he is way weak compared to the comics even though i use him every chance i get he could still be alot stronger (weaker chacters then in comics Dommsday superman darkseid and some ohters)
Movment
20 20 19 19 18 18 17 17 16 16 15
Attack
15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10
Defense
20 20 19 19 18 18 17 17 16 16 15
Damage
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3
oK i'm new to the forums and have read a lot of this thread and I want to say that for the most part I agree with what you people are saying and a lot of what you are not... I have OWAW supes and he is a lot of fun to play only if you are playing a really high point game and can have lots of others to back him up, I have tried to play him against the world and lost, in small teams and lost, but that is maily do to one of my clixbuds always playing a Darkside aginst him, and Supes is no match to Physic Blast, two hits and he's no better than the Rookie Sups...
well that's my two cents..
:wking:
MisterId
03/21/2003, 11:51
Well Supes Is Getting To Close To the Battle Best Stratagy Run Hypersonic Shot Run Back And Fly High, They Then Have To Get Closer To Hit You... Take Out Taxi's First And You Should Always Win.
-E
groovyfunk
03/21/2003, 12:07
Does anyone know how long is the OWAW series? I am intrested in buying the complete set if its a fairly new DC series.
MisterId
03/21/2003, 12:40
Your Best Bet Is To Buy The TPB There Are To Of Them And It Would Be Far Cheaper Plus Alot More Conveniant Then Hunting Down The Whole Series.
-E
Veggiehater
03/21/2003, 13:01
Originally posted by gladiator1518
Dr.Doom and Thor teams may eat him for lunch,but one on one,it is a TOTALLY different story. Whether your talking clix or especially the comics!!
Agreed about the clix one on one aspect, which is why I said that OWAW Superman is a one-man-power-trip in the world of HC! However, Vet Thor actually has the stuff to take on the Man of Steel, one on one, in clix, though Doom hasn't a prayer...
Thor (V), Darkseid (U), Sinestro (V) and the Sentinel (Mark VII) all have the power and longevity to actually beat OWAW Superman one on one. Now I'm not saying that they'll do the job every time but I think it's about 50/50 in any case. ;)
As for the comics, well, never underestimate Doom or Thor. Thor is Marvel's equivalent of Big Blue in terms of powers and Doc Doom is basically Marvel's pre-crisis Lex Luthor, or if you'd rather Doom is Doom! They do have what it takes to give Superman a run for his money.
(Now let's not start a debate on it or anything since that would be pointless, but I'm just giving the characters the props they deserve) :)
Cheers!
VH
gladiator1518
03/21/2003, 22:58
I agree totally with you VH that both Thor and Dr.Doom are awesome characters.Dr. Doom is one of my favorite villains,both powerful and highly intelligent.I like the GOD of THUNDER just as much.And your right they do deserve their "props".The main reason I made that comment about the comics is because,from what I've read on this website,they didn't make R/E/V Supermen nearly as powerful as they should have.I probably don't have near as much experience as most people that are members of this site- I only get to play every now and then and the only two Supermen I have are OWAW and rookie(which I will most likely never use considering he's 155pts. and can never do more than 2 natural damage)-but I have read tons of comics with Superman in them and I know that unless you are Darkseid or Doomsday then you had better hope that you have some kryptonite in your pocket to have any real chance of bringing down the Man of Steel.However,there are also some characters in the MARVEL universe that can give him"a run for his money" as you said.Like Thor,Dr.Doom,and maybe even The Hulk!:rolleyes:
EVIL CAP
03/22/2003, 01:01
If Darkseid can get get in 4 spaces and hit him with a Psychic blast i wonder if yuo laying him to his real potential
shin-goji
03/22/2003, 01:05
I would put Spiral up as one of the big characters if her defense value weren't so low. But that is what balances her.
Actually Darkseid can get within 8 spaces of the Big Blue Boy Scout....Darkseid has Imperviousness.....Kal-el hypersonics in, heaves a motorcycvle to Darkseid, hits! Darskeid makes his impervious roll, next turn taxi(Manbat?) pushes to get Darkseid into Psychic Blast range and 3 psychic blast clicks later, Superman has no Hypersonic speed.... nad his ? in outwitted.
That 236 points is a hefty price for an awesome fig..... but there are some equalizers out there.
Darkseid could 'blast Thor or Dr Doom as well.
With support, Doomsday can trash people.
EVIL CAP
03/23/2003, 00:49
Darksied-Cannot beat OWAW Superman.He cannot reach into Sups range and should never have a chance to land a hit.If he does beat him one on one in any games your doing something wrong.Has a chance with a taxi as long as Sups doesnt target the taxi first
Vet Thor-Has potential thanks to his RS but technically only has a 9 range against him outdoors [ie the place where you play OWAW Sups normally] and Sups should be able to easily keep at least 10 spaces between each other and force Thor to push just to have a remote chance of hitting
Vet Doom-Ok Vet Doom needs another figure for mastermind or he will drop off way to fast.Besides that he suffers from the same problem as Thor 9 range [10 and 3 damage if perplexed] and after 3 clicks he loses his chance
Hulk any-Hulk doesnt stand a chance Soaring will see to that Battle fury will cinch it
Sentinel/Sinestro-Have a chance simply because they can push without worry.Sinestro might have a slightly better chance.Land near him outwit Soaring and capture.Otherwise its dependant on the use the big fig gets out of everytime it pushes
gladiator1518
03/23/2003, 01:52
In Heroclix your probably right,the figs you mentioned have little chance of defeating LE Supes,except of course for Sentinel & Sinestro.Although,regarding the comic characters,all the ones you mentioned definately have a decent chance of at least a draw. The Hulk included! I once read a crossover book that had Superman fighting Hulk and it ended in a standoff!
This is not quit the comic book, and I'm glad mostly just for the reason that we have the control to make the plots and feel the power in our all controllyng hands:laugh: but really I would love it if all the characters in heroclix were even closer to the way they really are in the comics. Though I do feel that Superman LE comes just about the cosest Don't you think? though there might be some closer but who?:rolleyes:
gladiator1518
03/23/2003, 19:07
Well actually,I think they could have made him even closer to his comic persona by starting him off doing 4 damage for first couple of clicks and by giving him a higher defense.Of course,if they had,he would be much more expensive than he is now.I think they should have given the vet Superman the stats & powers that OWAW Supes has and raise his cost up to about 236 and made OWAW Superman even more expensive with the additions I've mentioned above.And while we're on the subject,the rookie Supes is pathetic for 155pts.He never does more than 2 natural damage and has a range of only 6! I don't understand how in the H### Batman,any Batman,can do more damage than any Superman!!:confused:
OWAW stinks the custom 300 pt supes I made is def the best clix
I agree. I definitly think the OWAW supes should be stronger yet the normal REVs are defininatly lacking. But most people think his points are much too expensive as they are. I think if he traided in a lot of his leadership and possiblly some movement he should get some higher stats. especially the rookie in damage, actually all could uses higher damage. the OWAW just bearly gets but in taking down the big guys yet he should do much better. Heck, he can punch people to another state in the comics.
your right, any one here also think supes couldn't take down, a sentiniel or sinestro single handed.
Veggiehater
03/24/2003, 13:39
Originally posted by EVIL CAP
Darksied-Cannot beat OWAW Superman.He cannot reach into Sups range and should never have a chance to land a hit.If he does beat him one on one in any games your doing something wrong.Has a chance with a taxi as long as Sups doesnt target the taxi first
Nah, Darkseid can (I'm not saying he will) beat OWAW Superman 1 on 1, especially indoors. Darkseid has 5 clicks of outwit and 8 range. If he pushes to move, and outwits Supes HSS he can get a few shots in. That's all Darkseid needs to tip the scales to his advantage, a few shots.
Vet Thor-Has potential thanks to his RS but technically only has a 9 range against him outdoors [ie the place where you play OWAW Sups normally] and Sups should be able to easily keep at least 10 spaces between each other and force Thor to push just to have a remote chance of hitting
Thanks to running shot, even outdoors, Thor has a theoretical 13 range against Big Blue, as he can change from hovering to soaring during a Running Shot and vise-versa . Thor also has the edge in terms of stats and push-ability. In fact, Thor is the best bet amongst the normal dial figs when it comes to taking down OWAW Superman one on one.
Vet Doom-Ok Vet Doom needs another figure for mastermind or he will drop off way to fast.Besides that he suffers from the same problem as Thor 9 range [10 and 3 damage if perplexed] and after 3 clicks he loses his chance
Agreed. Like I said earlier, 1 on 1 Vet Doom shouldn't stand a chance against OWAW Superman, barring weird rolls.
Hulk any-Hulk doesnt stand a chance Soaring will see to that Battle fury will cinch it
True, it's a bit different on indoor maps, but 1 on 1 Hulk should still have no chance. It'll take long but the result should never be in doubt.
Sentinel/Sinestro-Have a chance simply because they can push without worry.Sinestro might have a slightly better chance.Land near him outwit Soaring and capture.Otherwise its dependant on the use the big fig gets out of everytime it pushes
Sinestro also has the power to Outwit HSS. The reason these two can fare well against Supes is that they completely ignore his "soar tricks." As dumb as it sounds, Superman would rather take these fights indoors. Also, you can capture soaring figs outright IIRC. No need to waste the Ouwit there...
Just my opinions,
VH
The figure is good, but he costs far too much. A good team with lesser costing figures is better.. Unless you play 500 pts.
he cost 236pts for a characters that can stand up to around 4 damage and then be next to useless. plus his sculpt is bad, nay nay nay. Whirlwind + Doc Ok Vs LE Sups...who wins? thats right, NOT sups.
lancelot
04/14/2003, 18:50
no way, not the best ever...i beat him handily in a 300 point game, even after losing my outwit right off the bat no thanks to his xray vision picking nightwing off in the distance, my perplexers covered ground and helped me win in the end...was a 50 minute game, i killed supes with 50 seconds left whoo
I don't belive that your oponante knew how to use OW@W Superman at the best of his abilaty if so it would have been much much harder
lancelot
04/14/2003, 23:34
well how could you do some productive with supes if i did this on my very first turn...i perplexed nightwing's range of 8 up to 10, taxied him 10 squares with boostergold, outwitted OWAW's impervious, hit for an easy 3, followed up my LE tomorrow that missed his RCE (ugh that d have been 6 right off the bat), so he lost his HSS right away, couldnt really do much other than stand around and shoot off 4 of my guys while i finished all 3 of his he also had vets robin n quinn the quinn was a b itch, perplexing supes up all those times til i got rid of her
it sounds like one EXELENT turn but Supes should not have been started on the front row, he should have been behind others to start then ran out when his turn came or been taxied to do some great attacking. If Supes does loose his hypersonic speed he is a high point punching bag, but there are ways around it (it happened to me the first time I played him, Ilearned my lession). Mostly it's in forseeing what the other team could possably do to him.
lancelot
04/15/2003, 00:03
ah, good point, should ve stuck him in the back row :)
Imaine OW@W Supes partnered with a running fliging shot who can taxi him and shoot, Talk about the Ultamate stratagy
OWAW Superman cannot be beat by any 236 point team on an outdoor map.
On an indoor map there is a chance he can be "cornered" but since he can break down a wall and run through it at will it is still unlikely. The fact that he can't soar indoors is what will keep the other team in the game.
DoomX,
On an outdoor map Whirlwind can't even hit Superman because he'll be soaring the whole time.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 19:14
If he's soaring "the entire time," how does he fight???
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 19:16
If he's "soaring the whole time," how does he fight?
because he can move attack move he comes down from soaring, shoot, then returns to soaring so he can make sure he stays out of everyones range.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 19:22
Oh, I gotcha. With the Hypersonic Speed power. Wow, THAT sure sounds like a wonderfully enjoyable game...
:disappoin
fun OW@W team
Supes(duh!)
LE TO Morow
R Vulture
V Paramedic
The fun in it is watching the tactics involved for a single figure with one action every two rounds take on an entire army with 2 or 3 actions a round.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 20:19
Exactly what tactics are those? You said yourself, all you do is soar, land, attack, soar, lather, rinse, repeat. I don't see any tactics involved in that...
#1 is to stay out of range of or kill outwitters before they can turn off his hypersonic speed and/or impervious.
And opponent with medics has the option of pushing which you really don't have.
The tactics are mainly that you have to account for two possible moves of each of his figures (assuming he's willing to push) for every single action you take.
Yes your actions can end with you soaring which will reduce range by half of most figs, but with two actions nearly any fig can make it across the board and anyone can be taxied across.
It's a wonderful game to play because while superman should come out victorious in each battle the player needs to make all the right moves at all the right times.
It's also just as interesting, if not more so to see how and why the opposing army goes after him the way it does. It makes for an intense game with moves thought out to 4 and 5 turns ahead something that is very rare in army v army battles where two turns is all that needs to be pre thought to be successful in most cases.
The other thing is depending on how you play your opponent can make the game very interesting by keeping it a "realistic" comic book game depending on his army build. With one fig it's easy to keep the team a themed superman team so if your opponent does villians it's even within the context of a common story.
Bottom line is if you haven't played this game/scenario you need to.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 20:42
I must say, you make a compelling argument, and almost tempt me to play! :grin:
However, isn't the OW@W Supes 236 points (or something like that)? Wouldn't you be playing a 300 point game, then, so wouldn't it be THREE moves to your one?
Yeah, I said two or three actions a round in my previous post. It'd be a 236pt game to be precise so it's up to you and your opponent to decide if that's 2 actions, 3 actions, or 5 actions every two rounds.
captainspud
04/20/2003, 20:56
Kevlear, face it. Nobody agrees with you. Please stop speaking and save us all the effort of rebutting you again and again.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 20:58
I dunno, captainspud, even though *I* don't agree with him, seems like an awful lot of other people sure do... (Have you read this entire thread?)
captainspud
04/20/2003, 20:58
Hmm, this is embarassing. I posted a response to a post on the first page, not realizing that there were... uh... eight more between that and my post. And now I can't edit my post for some reason.
Yeah, I know, I'm a tool.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 21:00
Hahaha! I know what you mean! It's been doing that to me, too (not letting me edit my posts). Ah, well, what can ya do? At least you sucked it up and took it like a man... :laugh:
Oh, just so I'm not completely supporting Supes here I must admit he does calim the "absolute worst sculpt" prize.
How can such a mainstream figure get so botched when it comes to sculpting, that's a mortal sin if you ask me.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 21:32
That's a good point, KRoc. You can see that they took pains with, for instance, the very first Spider-Man figure was VERY nice (especially compared to some of the other sculpts in the first set). And the Batman is pretty good, too. So why the HECK didn't they make any extra effort to do a great Superman figure? Especially seeing as how it ended up as a special LE figure, too!
the Unique Supes is pretty good, but the REV and LE is just ridiculous with a child drawn cape and this constipated face/deformed head and twiggish arms.
As bad as the REV stats are I think the LE makes up for that and is a legitimate SUPER man. I just hope the new set has a new version that I can play on my LE base, otherwise I'm going to be modding the GREAT Bizarro sculpt they've already shown us to make a decent supes.
ericnelson
04/20/2003, 21:44
Yeah, and what's up with that "disco boy" pose of his??? Shameful! (And you're right, the unique Supes is pretty well done.)
I have to agree that he is in a horable pose and he is an aweful sulpted fig but I wouldn't say the worst. I mean look at Steel, better cape and pose but look at his face and the rest of his body now he's bad, especialy compared to what he really looks like.
ericnelson
04/22/2003, 22:53
No, you're right about that, kevlear, there are CERTAINLY many worse scupts than Supes. It's just that Supes (along with Batman and Wonder Woman) is the premier DC character, so you figure they'd put some effort into quality control for that one, at least, ala Spidey's figure in the first Marvel set...
I made this thread before XP came out and I still feel that OW@W Superman is the best character in all Heroclix. His price is a little high but for fun it's just fine, and for tournys, one can cleaverly put together a team 300 pts or 400pts that can clean your aponents clock.
ericnelson
04/25/2003, 16:06
Well, since we're going back to our original thoughts on this thread, I just have to say that this whole debate reminds me of little kids who just got into playing Magic. Typically, newbies in Magic focus on whatever creature is the biggest, in terms of its attack and defense values.
That's what this debate reminds me of. Don't you think it's sort of a coincidence you're trumpeting the virtues of what just HAPPENS to be the highest-point-cost figure in all of HeroClix (not counting the Sentinel or Sinestro)? You're certainly welcome to your opinion (and I'm not even saying you're wrong), but I strongly feel that I'd prefer 236 (or whatever it is) points worth of other figures. It's debatable which team would be better, but I know that, for me, I'd have more fun playing the characters that are rarely played but still have some value to them.
Just my .02. :grin:
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 16:30
Bah...I dont know what the trouble is with OWAW superman...he's usless against a competent player.
Everytime I've played against him he's always been the first to fall thanks to my Unique Batman and my Vet SwampThing (Feel the love...and this large heavy object!).
I often play games against my friends inwhich we just creat uber-armies for fun, in one instance my freind wanted to play OWAW supes + 300pt Sinestro + Beserker Wolverine LE and Vet Riddler. Alright...Basically superman lasted all of 3 turns due to Batman outwitting him and moondragon TKing Swampthing in close for a giant wooping, afterwards its was more of a challenge to dispatch Sinestro and the other figures with the rest of my army.
I have two words for OWAW Superman:
Psychic Blast
And, on a side note, he's one of the few figures that makes Incapaciate worthwhile.
-lavinah
Draxxen,
let's go, your Unique Batman and Vet Swampthing against my OWAW Superman.
Do you really think you'll get a single hit in?
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 19:00
Umm...yes...why dont I pit my 2 character that are only less then 190 points total against OWAW. I was saying with a team you can easily beat him (and on my team it seems Batman and Swampthing ALWAYS kick his butt).
Honestly, any high end figure could beat any other hero in an unbalanced game, but who in there right mind would do that :P
We shall talk after an even 300 point game inwhich Superman would crash and burn. Just because its supes does not mean he is invincible or the best unit in the game.
Of course...if I had to do just those 2 figures against OWAW, I'd do it indoors and phase around to my hearts content.
PaxZRake
04/25/2003, 19:15
OWAW Supes is awful in 100 and 200 point games.
I'll take supes at 236 points and you can build a team worth 236 points. How does that sound?
OWAW Supes is a nuke. Everyone has one (some have two) but in my group people are afraid to use him because your opponent will play him. End result mutual assured destruction.
mutually assured destruction, I love it. Such an accurate analogy too.
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 19:23
This is an interesting concept, I'm going to get my friend to use his OWAW figure in a 236 point game and I will be sporting the following team:
-Batman (Unique 103pts)
-SwampThing (Vet 93pts)
-BoosterGold (Exp 38pts)
I decided just to fill the extra space with booster gold due to the whining of certain fanboys that double outwit is obviously 100% evil against OWAW.
Which map should I play him on though (and not this won't be like me playing against a chimp, he's good...of course not as good as me, but apparently that wont matter if he has superman)
Valandar
04/25/2003, 19:26
Funny... the only time I ever saw an OWAW Superman used around here, he got double incapped before he could do anything (Click!), then had two BCF'ers dropped off who savaged him for a total of 6 more clix of damage after imperv... he wasn't much good after that, especially since the Incappers kept incapping his medic...
being good and knowing how to play OWAW are two different things? Does he know and comprehend the proper way to play Supes?
I hope he does because if he is of your like mindset(thinking one flyer and two grounded figs have a chance) then he isn't going to play him properly.
we can play online if you've got AIM
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 19:35
He's well aware of the soaring plays and concepts of OWAW, in fact you may well be his clone as all he does is spout off how wonderful OWAW is.
I would however have to change my own playstyle to accomidate playing against OWAW, something I dont care to do. I like to play very fairly and not do anything that even remotely could be classified as 'cheesy' or 'unfair'.
Taking him out indoors is fairly simple, while taking him out ourdoors takes a little more effort (easily fixed if one has 2 taxies of moderate speed...trust me on this, a flank trap on supes is deadly when well played)
Valandar
04/25/2003, 19:39
KRoc... why is it I have this image of you with a 500 pt team composed of OWAW Supes and a few Firelords with an army of Paramedics to back them up?
taking him outdoors, with the three figs you named is impossible. Indoors is possible yet unlikely, although two phasing figs is helpful.
Ok, so once I get a hit on batman the game is over.
He loses outwit and is knocked to 2 damage. Booster has only two damage and Swamp thing has no range attack except a heavy object which would do one if it hits, then he needs to reload with another heavy object for a maximum of 3 damage.
I just don't see how those three could put up a fight.
I never play fireloard and rarely play paramedics.
People asked if OWAW Supes is the greatest figure in the game and I obliged by letting them know that he is.
I tend to stick to my X-Men teams for my fun play and only play sealed boosters in competition. The head to head just wasn't much fun because people got competitive.
I apologize if I sound so defensive of OWAW but some of the comments on here are just asinine. There is no way I will let two grounded figs and one flyer ever touch supes if I'm playing to win.
Argue it's cheesy all you want, I don't see how employing tactics with a single fig can be cheesy, combining random figs to get maximum effectiveness ala firelord taxiing a medic with him or any of the various others is not my game style.
bashing you with a single fig and protecting that fig anyway possible(especially with his own abilities) now THAT'S MY game style.
oh, Draxxxen the three damage was in reference to one damage from each of the three heavy objects on the board. And the "if it hits" comment did not mean he might miss the die roll, but simply that it's be tough to get within two spaces of Supes to make the shot at a soaring fig.
on an indoor map it would be more interesting but still the single shot on batman and the match is all but decided.
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 19:54
Sigh...if that were the case then don't you think EVERYONE would be sporting a OWAW figure just as every Marvel tourney was once riddled with a great orgy of Firelords?
If you cant see HOW those 3 units could take down OWAW then its obvious you are only expecting one avenue of attack from your current opponents, which is just straight forward bash-fest. This is not the case. Think about it, are you ONLY going to run right into my guys? If thats your strategy then you might want to pack a party of medics :)
Also please don't reply with "I play a certain way and truely understand the character" as I'm fairly confidant at least ONE of the many people I've played (who use OWAW) has at least the same level of tactics you do (if not more).
Think of it this way, we are not arguing the fact that in the right hands any figure could be deadly (unless we are talking about Black Manta :) ) but rather trying to explain that OWAW is not the uber-clix you praise him to be.
Valandar,
anyone who let OWAW get BCF'ed deserves to be shot
Then explain it to me, where is his weakness, you've explained nothing simply stated that you could beat him with two grounded figs and one taxi.
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 20:23
Alright, so in a 236 point game (very unlikely, though I have played 250's) I have those 3 figures to work with, fine:
I play the waiting game (I very much hate doing that). I will locate my troops in a corner of a building, taxi being adjacent to both other units.
Afterwards it becomes a game of you attempting a first strike and soar (if outdoors), but this depends heavily on you getting rid of batmans outwit, in fact failure to do so would really mess your game up (keep in mind had we done 250 points I would most likely pack a 2nd taxi or another outwitter, cheap but then again who cares against the soar tactic). Basically you want me to write up an ideal game inwhich OWAW die, only for you to reply that its rubbish and you would play differently...and it would go on and on.
If I had to explain/debunk every persons grande views about certain clix then I would have a great many full time jobs. Spouting off that he's the greatest is not what proves he's effective, I'll be convinced he's a true powerhouse when I see him appear more often in competitive play.
Try to accept that OWAW is not the uber character you make him out to be (which is the main issue at hand, hell I know Batman is not the best character but I like him for his diversity, and well, swampthing is just a favorite), he can be beaten and its not because some kid isn't playing him right, because that excuse does not work since if superman wins I could just say his opponent was not playing those characters correctly, which gets very redundent. Yes, we know you love the character and its understandable but you have to see that he has limitations when in competitive play (Expensive, lack of support, can be duel teamed and shut down by outwit very easily..these are facts, not fanboyish dreams filled with bitterness against superman). Every character has its uses and its moments, unfortunatly OWAW is mainly an 'awe' piece, while playable is not best suited for tourny play (far to risky). He is fun to play, and does have some very nice stats, but that wont make him the best character since he is very overcosted (Had he been 200 points and perhaps 1 higher defense on his initial click then I may actually be agreeing with you). Sorry if you think we are just attacking you on this matter but try to look at this fairly. Now, the question is who IS the best character in Heroclix (yes yes we know OWAW maybe the MOST powerful, but I said BEST not powerful...there is a difference)
DraXXXen
04/25/2003, 20:30
Can we please end this convoluted pissing contest, its Friday night and some of us need to get to Toronto to a kegger (hint hint).
I'll play my local judge (dont make me talk about him...eek...to much history there the man is a walking hobby games legend).
Anywho....drink time, I'll answer any other replys on Saturday afternoon hopfully)
there are several reasons he doesn't appear in competitive play.
#1 he's fairly rare
#2 few people have the patience to play him properly
#3 he's not a fun figure to play, soaring, attacking soaring all in one turn is extremely annoying when all you can do is do that over and over.
if you look back in this thread you can read my entire argument about how complicated it is to play him.
With such limited action your shot selection must be ideal.
I have never lost with this team (friendly game or otherwise), OWAW superman, experienced black cat, experienced aim medic, veteran shield madic. Black cat sits beside Superman to give him either plus one attack or plus one damage(which ever one i need at the time) and to re-role all his attacks and his impervious. His team ability lets him not only see characters in hindering who have stealth, it also lets him ignore the plus one defense characters normally get when the line of fire to them goes through hindering. The two tournaments I used OWAW superman in I took first. He is not unbeatable, but played right he can be a moster. he is so good that he (like fire lord) never gets played in me and my friends friendly games.
P.S. In response to a post that said thor and a black panther could whoop OWAW superman, a friend of mine used a vet thor, rookie Black panther, moon dragon, Aim medic team on me and I whooped his ###. Remember, balck panther can't use outwit durring thors running shot, and his stealth means nothing.
TheGambler66
04/25/2003, 22:03
i don't want to get pulled into this, but I just want to say that in my opinion, OWAW sucks. A lot. I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad fig, well, actually, I am. He costs way too much for what he has, and like many other people, I agree that a well rounded 300 point team could beat him and a support or two anyday. Not only is he too expenisive for his abilities and stats, but because he is that expensive, he's just got a huge ### target painted on his chest, if you're playing victory points. I mean, thats 236 points. Because of that previously mentioned huge-### target, he just gets victimized. Everyone goes after him because he costs so much. I played at a 4-person table with Supes on, and before the match even started, everyone was figuring out strategies to get The Man of Expensive Steel all for themselves. Supes was dead by the time the guy playing him got his second turn. At one point, Suckerman even failed to hit a medic. He just got impervious outwitted, and then got whacked by a V Dr. Strange. Then, during his turn, Supes failed to get healed, so the third person at the table whapped him for 3, then MC'ed him and rolled 12. Then, on my turn, I just did 1 damage because I was 11 squares away with V Cyclops, and I had to use running shot. Then, when the first person came up again, he just pushed Strange to kill supes. End of game for that player. Well, thats my rant on how much Superman sucks.
ericnelson
04/25/2003, 22:07
You know, it seems every time someone describes how OW@W Supes gets his butt handed to him, the response is, "The person who played him doesn't know how to play him correctly!!!!!!"
Honestly, now -- how good can the figure be if you need to know how to play him "correctly" in order to do well with him? If he was THAT good, it would be a slam dunk...
Gambler,
in a 4 person game you're talking about Supes again 900pts worth of figs. He can't handle that. What he can handle is any 236pts of figs.
ericnelson,
didn't we already have this conversation? The problem is that you need to think your moves so far in advance because you have so few compared to your opponents actions. Few people soar after smacking someone and I've often seen guys run in with objects to hit figures, which is just blatantly stupid.
All people need to know is that if you're ending your turn either not soaring or within range of another attacker you've already messed up.
Mandarin is one of the few figs that has a shot against supes due to the long range and outwit. No grounded figure can even put up a fight. With the proper support mandarin might be able to do the job, but even there you need things to go your way.
Is he such a "slam dunk" that he can't be beat? No, he's just the single most powerful figure in the game and due to his ability to move in attack and move back out(specifically to soar) he's the only figure that is self sufficient and even has a chance of fighting an entire army.
No other figure(over 150 I'll say) can even come close to taking down a decent army of equivalent point value.
ericnelson
04/25/2003, 22:22
Well, I'll buy the argument that you have to think way ahead due to lack of move actions. In fact, that was my original point about not preferring the OW@W Supes (so, yes, I guess we have had THAT conversation).
Just boils down to personal choices, really, so this is a pretty pointless argument, but when has that ever stopped us? :p
weezer_10
04/25/2003, 22:24
I'm getting a little tired of this; people who complain that LE Superman sucks because he is too expensive, which he is, but man, no one's forcing you to use him in a 300 or 400 point game. If you think he's too pricey, don't use him, use someone else, like an Experienced Superman or something. Just don't go saying he sucks just because you can't use him.
Personally, I've used LE Superman in a 400 point team and absolutely dominated with him, he's one of the figures I love to use most when I can. The fun part about it, he's very hard to hit given you can manouver him well; zip around corners and make use of Soaring.
My opinion, LE Superman rocks, anyone who says otherwise is an Anti-Clarkite. :p
I agree OW@W Superman totally rocks. He might have a very high price but that makes the team choosing a bit more chalengingly fun. With ALL figs you have to play them with a certain caution and a special way and once you figure out the best way to play him your team and Supes will be verually unstoppable.
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