4935 Reviews: Superman - Magnificently Average.

[bill4935]

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80851/HCRealms.com/201104/bill-review-logo-4.jpg" style="width:125px;padding-right:5px" align="left"> 4935 Reviews

featuring DC75 SUPERMAN

By Bill4935

Way back in 1939, when fedoras were hip and... waitaminute. We've seen this guy before. What makes this time different? What does this 27th version of Superman do for us? Why choose him?

For all the details, click Full Story below!

[bill4935]

an032 V Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 8:bolt:
Points: 173
Keywords: JLA, Justice League, Justice League of America, Metropolis, Soldier, Trinity.
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst10101741010174101118391017399163991638916389173810172810172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


This isn't a hidden gem, we all know him. It's his picture in the dictionary next to Superhero. And being the center of attention, we're gonna have some different opinions about him. I have two opinions myself.

He's a terrific Superman. And he's a terrible Superman.

He's got consistently strong attack and damage stats: terrific.
He's got Battle Fury and and only one click of 18:d-normal:: terrible.
He's cheap enough to fit in a 300 point force: terrific.
He's too few points to really be the *Superman*: terrible.
He has 10 clicks of life, and ends with high damage heat vision: terrific.
He has NO HYPERSONIC SPEED: terrible.

If this had been the 173 point E Superman we'd gotten in Hypertime, he would have been one of the great HeroClix force leaders ("tentpoles") right up until Ultimate Thor (http://www.hcrealms.com/index.php?page=units&id=ul096). Mostly due to his Ranged Combat Expert clicks. But in 2011 we're spoiled for choice. This one doesn't stand up to the Man of Steel (http://www.hcrealms.com/index.php?page=units&id=cd222) (my favourite Superman) or even the Justice League Superman (http://www.hcrealms.com/index.php?page=units&id=jl046). Compared to other 175 point tentpoles or "brick" figures... well that's in the same range as Morlun, Ultron, Skrull Ms Marvel, Metallo, Veteran Darkseid - need I go on?

So what is he good for? Two things.
1. He's great on a big team. He can be a solid attacker on 500-600 point JLA teams, where he doesn't have to be a tentpole. He won't cost half or more of the total points, so you still have room for J'onn J'onzz, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman. With powerful teammates, he doesn't have to be the #1 Unstoppable Main Attacker, he can just be a solid, long-living, stealth-busting Superman for teams that wouldn't be complete without Big Blue.

2. He's Uncommon. This is a Superman that will do everything a younger or new HeroClix player will want him to do, and is easily available and easy to learn. No new Special Powers, no Traits, no learning curve, no problem. There should be simple clix in each set for new players. Sometimes simple is good, like a fastball pitch that strikes out more batters than a tricky slider. If all the "introductory" characters we get are as... decent ... as this one, we shouldn't complain.

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80851/HCRealms.com/201104/supermath.jpg" style="width:121px;margin-right:2px" align="left" title="Math is important. Stay in school, kids!">Top tip:
Do not use Charge and Super-Strength right away. This Superman will only be worth his points if he KOes a few Stealth characters with ranged attacks first.

Here's the Math:
No math this time around. You all did so well on last week's Geometry test, I'm giving you a break.

What's your opinion of this power-creep-free Superman? Tell us what you think by posting your comments in the HCRealms.com units review by following the link here (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299794).

[Parasite2]

At first I thought this was about the SR Superman from DC75th. So I was ready to disagree with you.

Supes is good and fun to play, but he is just not "The Superman" of the modern age.

The sculpt also makes me sad - one of the WORST ever added to this game.

[Kwagamon]

How was I not aware this piece existed? Unless he's that one with awful sculpt that I could've sworn was a common and I'm just going crazy.

But yeah he seems good. I don't think I've ever run a Superman piece except for the Supes & Flash duo one time.

[Clclix]

As a Superman dial, I just don't like him. It's too weak, I would rather use JL Superman in Modern Age, and MoS in Golden.

As a Heroclix, the dial is not that bad however. He actually looks good if you look at him by those standards.

I don't m mean Physically look though, cause he looks like a sad Sean Penn waiting for a bus in a Superman suit.

[Bat-Phreak]

Too many other better Superman figs to play, I do not think this guy will ever see my Deployment Zone at the beginning of a game.

Then again, he does have the Soldier keyword. Could be fun to build a team with him, SI Thing, CR GL, Warlord, etc....

[Deathblossom]

I really wish they had "picked a theme and run with it" with this guy.

Uncommon Batman was Dick taking up the mantle of Batman after Battle for the Cowl, so he represents those first few issues where he was really coming into his own. That's why he works so well with BatB Robin.

Uncommon Wonder Woman is clearly an Amazon force leader. (Well, maybe not explicitly, but she definitely fits the bill on the tabletop!)

Since Superman has the soldier keyword, I guess he's supposed to be War of New Krypton Superman, or something, but his powerset doesn't strike me as anything other than generic Superman.

SR Superman, on the other hand, is absolutely stellar in this set. Perfectly thematic, has the full complement of 1940s powers, and works amazingly on the tabletop for the points.

[Slade Wilson]

If you are looking for a superman to put on your 300-400 point games he can fill that spot. As stated in the article, he has to be played right in order to be effective. Sadly he just does n to play or feel like superman. I mean 3 clix of Battle Fury, yet GSX Wolverine gets none? I'll stick with the rookie from Icons for now.

[larthosgrr8]

it's a shame that ppl think superman sucks if he can't smack for 7 and run away. 98% of the time the guy goes easy on you because he knows he can squash u like a grape.

this is a great superman that actually takes some skill to play. it's a shame that in todays game if you're not an point and shoot, hard to hit, or break a rule of the game type fig, ppl pass you over or think you're inaccurate. same thing happened to wolverine and spidey. these too suck, why can't they do this and that. well now that they can, they still suck. why, because they can't go that and this!! lord....

this superman, like any other fig, can be awesome if played well. the only thing lacking is a good sculpt. battle fury is suppose to show him enraged, and just wanting to hit something. this dial displays how superman was in the new krypton storyline. he wasn't zipping all over the place. i hope ppl can finally stop crying once the superman set comes out. i hope wizkids gives us a 'real' superman that has all the chase figure values, but also has crazy traits and powers. maybe then ppl will stop this silly complaining. why make every superman fight the same? also, why make every superman no fun to play against? superman gets his butt kicked all the time in the comics, so why does he need to be the end all, be all in clix. i love the guy as much as anyone(trust me), but every version we we've seen has been accurate.

[Thorsday]

Whew! I was sure I failed that geometry test.

[Clixkilla]

The next "The" Superman will be one of those clix that has a double power action to do something like a 20 speed hypersonic where he can attack more than one person on the same hypersonic action.

[SpideySteve5422]

:d-indomitable: Bottom line, you said it from the beginning, he's a great Superman, and he's a horrible Superman. :d-indomitable:

The Trinity Characters are generally nerfed down quite a bit anyway so that the three clix can fit into a smaller point build. Let's face it, if we picked the best characters to assemble the trinity, it could easily be over 500-600 points for a 3 character army.

This Superman has his uses, but he doesn't have his uses for me. And besides, I'm slightly biased to bad art in comics and grotesque looking sculpts in heroclix. Unfortunately, DC 75 had quite a bit of those.

[SpideySteve5422]

The next "The" Superman will be one of those clix that has a double power action to do something like a 20 speed hypersonic where he can attack more than one person on the same hypersonic action.

I do agree with you that "THE" Superman in the next set will have some very crazy powers, I can't imagine them revolving around his speed given that the Flash is faster. I do believe he will have something crazy like indomitable, impervious and a roll of 4-6 for the impervious roll.

[Xer0Gravity]

Supes here will at least get a little bit of a boost with the new rules changes though via Battle Fury. A nice bonus to not be targeted by Incap, and once he hits those flurry clicks, send him after those pesky Shape Changers!

[manoftomorrow010]

I agree with you that this Superman is both terrific and terrible. I've played him once or twice on JLA teams in 400-500 point games and he's worked magnificently. I basically used him exactly as you said he should be, Stealth buster, then late, he's throwing 4 damage with RCE and some Defend to rally your team around and fire at anyone who approaches.

Agree about the lack of 18 defense, but the top 2 impervious clicks offset that for me some. I used to ABHOR him having Battle Fury until the changes to that power, now I'm okay with it completely.

I know some Superman fanboys will complain about this or that, but as a Superman fanboy, I see nothing wrong with this representation of the character, other than the TURRIBLE sculpt. Good review, rep.

[PONX]

His stats and playability are nice. However, his sculpt will forever keep this guy in the bottom of the mod box until the day comes where he'll be sliced and diced (not for his sculpt, but his numbers). I believe by playing this piece I'll be giving the (person, entity, force, being) who created the sculpt an "OK" to make equally disturbing sculpts for future pieces. Superman is to much of an Iconic character to have been insulted by such a sculpt.

[mavjonpaul]

it's a shame that ppl think superman sucks if he can't smack for 7 and run away. 98% of the time the guy goes easy on you because he knows he can squash u like a grape.

this is a great superman that actually takes some skill to play. it's a shame that in todays game if you're not an point and shoot, hard to hit, or break a rule of the game type fig, ppl pass you over or think you're inaccurate. same thing happened to wolverine and spidey. these too suck, why can't they do this and that. well now that they can, they still suck. why, because they can't go that and this!! lord....

this superman, like any other fig, can be awesome if played well. the only thing lacking is a good sculpt. battle fury is suppose to show him enraged, and just wanting to hit something. this dial displays how superman was in the new krypton storyline. he wasn't zipping all over the place. i hope ppl can finally stop crying once the superman set comes out. i hope wizkids gives us a 'real' superman that has all the chase figure values, but also has crazy traits and powers. maybe then ppl will stop this silly complaining. why make every superman fight the same? also, why make every superman no fun to play against? superman gets his butt kicked all the time in the comics, so why does he need to be the end all, be all in clix. i love the guy as much as anyone(trust me), but every version we we've seen has been accurate.


I have to agree with Larthos here. This Superman is just as useable if not more so then one of your "Power" Supermen. Think about it on a 300 even 400 point team tag him with an outwitter, say OoS Batman that puts the team at 248, plenty of other figs to add in for 52 points that would nicely complement this team-up. The MoS is 200 points by himself and the JL Supes is 226. Really limits your options. With this supes you build a team around him let people have to come to you and if they don't range them to death.
Its all very simple if you know how to use some strategy. I like to refer to this game like Chess with dice. In the end it comes down to the dice roll but up front it takes strategy in placing your figs.
I think its a very simple sculpture that could have been better but then he wouldn't be an uncommon then. If you notice they make most of the common and uncommon figs sorta generically and really simple to mass produce. While the rares, super-rares and chase figs are your nicer sculpts because they aren't produced as much as the others. I'm not supporting that it's a good sculpt as I have seen better, alot better.
I play for the fun of the game and the camaraderie that comes with it. You sit me on the other side of a table with someone who likes to have fun while using his mind and I have a good game. Put someone across from me that complains and whines when things don't go his way and I just do my best to rush through the game. I'm lucky enough at my venue that most of the people that I play with there are very easy going guys who just like to get out of the house, away from the kids in our own private world and have fun and BS. Unfortunately I'm still deployed so I don't get to do that right now but it does always amaze me at peoples complaints.

[Thunderclese]

I like him because he isn't a tent-pole piece. There's no real surprise on his dial, but I'm glad I can put a smaller build JLA team together with Superman on it that isn't electric blue (and I love electric Supes!).

[manoftomorrow010]

I really wish they had "picked a theme and run with it" with this guy.

Uncommon Batman was Dick taking up the mantle of Batman after Battle for the Cowl, so he represents those first few issues where he was really coming into his own. That's why he works so well with BatB Robin.

Uncommon Wonder Woman is clearly an Amazon force leader. (Well, maybe not explicitly, but she definitely fits the bill on the tabletop!)

Since Superman has the soldier keyword, I guess he's supposed to be War of New Krypton Superman, or something, but his powerset doesn't strike me as anything other than generic Superman.

SR Superman, on the other hand, is absolutely stellar in this set. Perfectly thematic, has the full complement of 1940s powers, and works amazingly on the tabletop for the points.

I think this interpretation is skewed by the monumental change of having Dick take over as Batman. It was completely logical to have a Batman that reflected Dick Grayson more than Bruce.

However, while Superman did go over to New Krypton, not much changed about him power-wise during that time so all that would have really changed was the sculpt and his uniform. I do hope to see a "Commander El" Superman figure in the upcoming Superman set.

Wonder Woman I think was the same way, this was before JMS changed her, I believe, in the comic, so there wasn't really anything to change "theme" wise for her piece either.

I do agree the AN SR Superman DOES have a specific theme, as does the SR Batman, and Wonder Woman, but that doesn't mean this figure is lacking because those are specific representations of these characters at a specific time, which was very different than their current iterations in terms of powers, character, etc.

This Superman is just Superman. And again, I think he's a fine Superman piece.

[dantheman5999]

I just feel like this a young superman or super boy whenever I play him.

[Xais]

I mean 3 clix of Battle Fury, yet GSX Wolverine gets none? I'll stick with the rookie from Icons for now.

GSX Wolverine is current Wolverine. Avengers Wolverine. He's not 90's classic "Destroy everything in blind rage" Wolverine. He's "All my old villians are dead I guess I'll have a beer and chill out with my dawgs." Wolverine.

[manoftomorrow010]

GSX Wolverine is current Wolverine. Avengers Wolverine. He's not 90's classic "Destroy everything in blind rage" Wolverine. He's "All my old villians are dead I guess I'll have a beer and chill out with my dawgs." Wolverine.

Rep to you.

"All my old villians are dead I guess I'll have a beer and chill out with my dawgs." Wolverine.


LMFAO

[vamroc]

However, while Superman did go over to New Krypton, not much changed about him power-wise during that time so all that would have really changed was the sculpt and his uniform. I do hope to see a "Commander El" Superman figure in the upcoming Superman set.



That's not really true he went to New Krypton and everything changed because Kal-El went from being "Superman" to just an average guy. Kal-El wasn't special so they made this dial to reflect his stat as they compared to other people of his race.

[Geof-Force]

This figure has gotten a lot of flack and deservedly so. He's not a bad figure in terms of play, just average and slightly overcosted for what he brings. However, no amount of justification anyone does will make this figure worthy of the name. This just doesn't play like "Superman" in his point range.

Case in point: Young Superman from the LOSH set plays more like Superman than this sad piece and he's 73 points cheaper! You want a Superman who can barrel through the opposing figs and lead his force, knowing that he'll be able to hold his own down the line. BATB Superman is a much more accurate figure, even with his below par opening attack values.

If he had an 11 attack at the start, 4 damage in those BF clicks (an angry Superman does as much damage as SI Spiderman or Wildcat???) and instead of RS had HSS in his later clicks, and regen on his last click (how many times has he recovered just getting a few seconds of sun??) he'd be an ok figure and closer to being accurate. As it is, he's just "Nifty Man".

[manoftomorrow010]

That's not really true he went to New Krypton and everything changed because Kal-El went from being "Superman" to just an average guy. Kal-El wasn't special so they made this dial to reflect his stat as they compared to other people of his race.

What I meant was, his powers did not change. Just because he was 1 of 100,000 didn't mean his powers changed. While he had to act differently, he still conducted himself in a similar manner as he did on earth with regards to how he used his powers.

Just like Dick Grayson uses his Batman gadgets and is more acrobatic than Bruce, etc. that's a change that can be, and I think was successfully shown in the Dick Grayson Batman figure.

Superman still had super strength, imprevious skin, flight, speed, heat vision and super breath. He was still the same person with the same powers on New Krypton. Yes he wasn't the only one with those powers anymore, but he didn't change physically.

Dick Grayson is a whole different person from Bruce Wayne with a completely different style. Superman was the same person, with the same style on New Krypton, he just acted more strict and militarily as a Commander of a military unit.

He used his powers the same way, look at how he trained his unit to use their powers intelligently and non-lethally, just as he does on earth. He stayed the same physically and power-set-wise, so that was my point of saying that comparison of "theme" with Dick Grayson Batman and this Superman figure was innacurate.

[manoftomorrow010]

That's not really true he went to New Krypton and everything changed because Kal-El went from being "Superman" to just an average guy. Kal-El wasn't special so they made this dial to reflect his stat as they compared to other people of his race.

Looking at your post again, I can see where you're coming from in this statement that's bolded. But, with no other Kryptonians in the 75th set, I don't think you can make that conclusion because his stats, for this set, are comparable to the set.

If that was their motivation, I think they should have waited to do that sort of thing until the Superman set. And while he isn't uber powerful, he is still powerful (the figure). Dropping his stats to reflect a comparison to other Kryptonians doesn't really make sense. Shouldn't his stats stay the same (what is "the control" for stats in this line of thinking anyway) and other Kyrptonian's be equally powerful? I just don't think this was a "New Krypton" Superman at all. It's just Superman at a cost-efficient point value with applicable stats and still a good figure.

[The Arachnid]

Ugly Scuplt Aside. Ive been wanting to play a 'Worlds Finest' for 300 points for a long time. In JL I got this:


226 JL046 Superman
75 JL001 Batman
301 (WTF!?)

No I dont have MoS or TDK and Im not about to Pony out the cash to get them, if I even can. And the WF 500 point monster I dont use all that often cause its so points heavy. So most times, when Im feeling DCish I'll play:

173 AN032 Superman
75 JL001 Batman
50 JL011 Black Canary
298

or even better:

173 AN032 Superman
120 AA099 Batman
293


127 AN030 Wonder Woman
173 AN032 Superman
120 AA099 Batman
151 AN046 John Stewart
169 AN038 Kyle Rayner
59 JL044 Major Disaster (Tent fig here says hello!)
799


The scuplt is Pole Dancing Spidey Bad, but the dial works. Just not in the traditional Supes way. It kind of works like Supes had to fight Manchester Black and the Elite.

[manoftomorrow010]

This figure has gotten a lot of flack and deservedly so. He's not a bad figure in terms of play, just average and slightly overcosted for what he brings. However, no amount of justification anyone does will make this figure worthy of the name. This just doesn't play like "Superman" in his point range.

Case in point: Young Superman from the LOSH set plays more like Superman than this sad piece and he's 73 points cheaper! You want a Superman who can barrel through the opposing figs and lead his force, knowing that he'll be able to hold his own down the line. BATB Superman is a much more accurate figure, even with his below par opening attack values.

If he had an 11 attack at the start, 4 damage in those BF clicks (an angry Superman does as much damage as SI Spiderman or Wildcat???) and instead of RS had HSS in his later clicks, and regen on his last click (how many times has he recovered just getting a few seconds of sun??) he'd be an ok figure and closer to being accurate. As it is, he's just "Nifty Man".

It's a game where there's a limit to dial length and super-powered characters are next to mortal men. Yes, Superman could kill Wildcat easily, most likely if he wanted to. But, if a clix accurately reflected his damage potential compared to Wildcat, Superman would have 10 damage or something like that and Wildcat 1. It's just not applicable in the game, and really no Superman figure will ever be the perfect figure when comparing him to other clixs because Batman can always outwit his defense and hit him for a perplexed-up 3 damage.

[Deathblossom]

He used his powers the same way, look at how he trained his unit to use their powers intelligently and non-lethally, just as he does on earth..

...and that's the sort of thing I'd like to see on a Superman dial. Give me SOME reason to play him over any of the dozen other garden variety Supermen out there.

[gatharion]

A playable, if unimpressive dial. Worth the points, but not super cheesy, which is generally what I like to see in dial design.

But I'll never play him.

There's almost nothing that makes this dial "feel like Superman". I don't mind the classic Charge & Super Strength combo that has long been a staple of heavy hitters in Heroclix, but with only ten move and basic Charge, he's being out-paced by the Thing!! A full-move Charge SP or something like a 14 move would do a lot to make him feel more Supermanish.
Mid-dial Battlefury and Flury? Who is this, Superman or Wolverine? I don't get it. Nor do I grok the end-dial range focus.
It's not powerful enough to really represent Superman, doesn't "feel" like Superman in play style, and has a terrible terrible sculpt. Thusly, I will never play him. There are lots of Supermans that I'd reach for first.


I think it's kinda funny that a pre-special powers version of Superman remains the champ of Superman figures that plays the most like Superman. That being Man of Steel, of course. That was some good dial design. (I'm still bummed that I never got one, here's hoping the set this Fall delivers.)

On the topic of making a Superman that "feels" like Superman, I'd like to see a special power that lets him use the Carry ability (perhaps for two figures), but doesn't require the other figure(s) be adjacent at the start of his action. Superman swooping in to save someone from harm is pretty darn iconic and not really duplicatable with any current Superman.

[Spook]

Why in the world does he have battle fury? I mean come on, this is Superman and not the often mentioned Wolverine. He gets mad from time to time, but he's never really out of control.

[superflyMP]

Our venue's theme last week was crossover - pair up a DC & Marvel character (JLA/Avenger preferred). There were set pairings (version was player's choice) or you could build your own. I ended up building my own but if I had played the set pairings this guy would have been up.

Here's the team I was going to run.

500 pts
New World's Finest - Superman & Cap

HA040 Captain America 72
AN032 Superman 173
GX102 Cable 140
GX017 Domino 69
X-Force ATA 8
462

Some feats & the gem to round out the build. I actually still want to play it to see how it does. So this superman will likely see some playtime in the future.

[NeoShazam]

# 1 - Fedoras are always hip.

# 2 - Young Superman and Man of Steel have set the bars for my ideas of a Superman figure. This one is in a nice point range but other than that I see a lot of blandness.

[gatharion]

Why in the world does he have battle fury? I mean come on, this is Superman and not the often mentioned Wolverine. He gets mad from time to time, but he's never really out of control.

Exactly. Superman is even something of a posterboy for how dangerous a mind-controller can be.

[manoftomorrow010]

...and that's the sort of thing I'd like to see on a Superman dial. Give me SOME reason to play him over any of the dozen other garden variety Supermen out there.

What would you give him in terms of powers then, to make him not "garden variety?"

[manoftomorrow010]

Why in the world does he have battle fury? I mean come on, this is Superman and not the often mentioned Wolverine. He gets mad from time to time, but he's never really out of control.

I would say the Battle Fury power in Superman's case wouldn't necessarily reflect blind rage, but more will and determination. The poster below you who mentioned Superman being very susceptible to Mind Control is a very good point and a valid one.

However, with the addition to Battle Fury that ignores Shape Change, I think Superman would be able to detect a Shape-changer with his X-Ray vision because he's been known to recognize people on the molecular, DNA level before.

Ignoring Incapacitate I'd say mimics his opponents' inability to really tie him down or something. He could break through any type of bonds unless Kryptonite was involved. Not making ranged attacks is accurate because he doesn't use his range that often, when he has to punch it out with someone he most definitely will.

I don't think Battle Fury is TERRIBLY inaccurate given the new additions to the power. But when I did see it before these changes, I was kind of bummed at first.

[dcsuperfriend]

Well, I pretty much have agree with the review. But, here are a couple of things that were missed:

1. Superman should have super strength as a trait.
2. This Superman has no defensive power on his last click. Terrible.

[tyroclix]

This is my personal favorite Superman and captures the character perfectly in the Justice League TV show and to some degree some of the JLA comics.

He brings everything you need and nothing you don't.

Solid values, long life, can fight longer than for 3 clicks and a great price for a Superman - I can't believe anything in the Superman set will be able to improve on this dial design without jacking up the cost into the "meh" category (200+).

When I've used him he feels like Superman - the most potent person on the team. He garners a lot of attention while the rest of the team battles on and if the team starts getting beat down, Superman is there to save the day.

Immunity to Incap and ignoring Shape-Change makes his Battle Fury clicks a heckuva a lot better but I admit this is that one "?" part of his dial. Using his ranged option first, second and third with the idea that his Charge is his secondary attack will really show off how good he is.

I did swap the sculpt with the Man of Steel (best Superman sculpt ever) so I can actually field him and the original is embarrassing.

I like him better than the HT versions for obvious reasons.

He has more endurance than the CD versions.

He is cheaper than Unleashed KC Superman and Justice League Superman.

He has more fight in him than Icons, Man of Steel, and Batman Ally Superman.

He has an attack value far better than BatB Superman.

He flies and has heat vision - better than the DC75 Super Rare and Origin Unique.

He has a longer life than the Legion Starter Super(boy).

And the best part of this piece is so many others don't use him so you get to field a unique character and show off what he can really do (Not So Special makes this guy explode!).

Unless the Superman set has a wicked 180-185 point Superman, I can't see myself using any other version than this one.

[manoftomorrow010]

This is my personal favorite Superman and captures the character perfectly in the Justice League TV show and to some degree some of the JLA comics.

He brings everything you need and nothing you don't.

Solid values, long life, can fight longer than for 3 clicks and a great price for a Superman - I can't believe anything in the Superman set will be able to improve on this dial design without jacking up the cost into the "meh" category (200+).

When I've used him he feels like Superman - the most potent person on the team. He garners a lot of attention while the rest of the team battles on and if the team starts getting beat down, Superman is there to save the day.

Immunity to Incap and ignoring Shape-Change makes his Battle Fury clicks a heckuva a lot better but I admit this is that one "?" part of his dial. Using his ranged option first, second and third with the idea that his Charge is his secondary attack will really show off how good he is.

I did swap the sculpt with the Man of Steel (best Superman sculpt ever) so I can actually field him and the original is embarrassing.

I like him better than the HT versions for obvious reasons.

He has more endurance than the CD versions.

He is cheaper than Unleashed KC Superman and Justice League Superman.

He has more fight in him than Icons, Man of Steel, and Batman Ally Superman.

He has an attack value far better than BatB Superman.

He flies and has heat vision - better than the DC75 Super Rare and Origin Unique.

He has a longer life than the Legion Starter Super(boy).

And the best part of this piece is so many others don't use him so you get to field a unique character and show off what he can really do (Not So Special makes this guy explode!).

Unless the Superman set has a wicked 180-185 point Superman, I can't see myself using any other version than this one.

Very well said. While I still field other Superman pieces, I try to use them all equally, this one is at the top of my list for his cost and effectiveness. I am a sucker for the original-powered, classic Superman so the SR Superman in DC75 is probably my favorite piece.

For a 200+ Superman, it's Man of Steel, don't own E-2 or KC....yet.

[Alpha-Omega]

A common theme to heros like Superman in the game (Heroclix) is they have too high a defense. Characters like Superman do not try to avoid being hit because they can take it. The whole point to Impervious is, "nah nah, you hit me and it didn't even hurt", lol. In fact, in most comics or stories I have read about Superman, the most common theme element is that he does not even try to avoid an attack by anyone, unless they demonstrate they have super strength or an obvious way to hurt him, Kryptonite for instance. He has even said so in many instances to his fellows, "I take the hits cause you can't".

Most of the folks I game with, and myself, have the same opinion about this point. Why should the folks with the ability to not get hurt by hits have the highest Defenses? Figures like Spider-Man and others who, if they get hit, are gonna really get hurt are the ones that should have a high Defense. They AVOID getting hit at all costs, that is how they survive. Which goes for every character that has a similar type of design - the Super Senses family etc.

Our group has basically come to the belief that no version of Superman should have a higher Defense than a '17', though there is some conjecture that the versions of him that have Defend could however bypass that restriction. Simply put he does not really need a higher number (as long as he has Impervious / Invulnerability) as it does not fit the character at all. Perhaps giving him a rising Defense after he looses things like Imperv and Invul would be more appropriate and comic accurate.

To drift a little further back on topic though, we feel this version of Superman is not bad at all. He at least is closer to the Defense numbers we think he should have. Since none of us has any of the 1939 era comics to refute it, the fact he does not have HSS is not a big deal, though of course it wouldn't hurt if he did lol. In any event we feel he is, like all the other Superman's to come down the pike so far, adequate though not entirely correct. Doesn't stop any of us from using him or having a good time playing him, but we keep hoping for a more properly balanced version some day. [Till then, my prime choice is the KC Superman from Unleashed. He is right in all ways to me, except he does not have the Superman team ability. If he did, i'd use him to this day, on nearly any team I wanted Supes to be on and that he would fit :P.]

[tyroclix]

A common theme to heros like Superman in the game (Heroclix) is they have too high a defense. Characters like Superman do not try to avoid being hit because they can take it. The whole point to Impervious is, "nah nah, you hit me and it didn't even hurt", lol. In fact, in most comics or stories I have read about Superman, the most common theme element is that he does not even try to avoid an attack by anyone, unless they demonstrate they have super strength or an obvious way to hurt him, Kryptonite for instance. He has even said so in many instances to his fellows, "I take the hits cause you can't".

Most of the folks I game with, and myself, have the same opinion about this point. Why should the folks with the ability to not get hurt by hits have the highest Defenses? Figures like Spider-Man and others who, if they get hit, are gonna really get hurt are the ones that should have a high Defense. They AVOID getting hit at all costs, that is how they survive. Which goes for every character that has a similar type of design - the Super Senses family etc.

Our group has basically come to the belief that no version of Superman should have a higher Defense than a '17', though there is some conjecture that the versions of him that have Defend could however bypass that restriction. Simply put he does not really need a higher number (as long as he has Impervious / Invulnerability) as it does not fit the character at all. Perhaps giving him a rising Defense after he looses things like Imperv and Invul would be more appropriate and comic accurate.

To drift a little further back on topic though, we feel this version of Superman is not bad at all. He at least is closer to the Defense numbers we think he should have. Since none of us has any of the 1939 era comics to refute it, the fact he does not have HSS is not a big deal, though of course it wouldn't hurt if he did lol. In any event we feel he is, like all the other Superman's to come down the pike so far, adequate though not entirely correct. Doesn't stop any of us from using him or having a good time playing him, but we keep hoping for a more properly balanced version some day. [Till then, my prime choice is the KC Superman from Unleashed. He is right in all ways to me, except he does not have the Superman team ability. If he did, i'd use him to this day, on nearly any team I wanted Supes to be on and that he would fit :P.]

WizKids has tried this in the past.

There are 2 problems:

A) Low defense = getting hit a lot. Because of things like Psychic Blast, EW, Pulse-Wave, Outwit, etc - having a low defense + Impervious becomes very ineffective in protecting a figure. Just ask Ultimate Thor. His Imper + 16 defense got him tore up by any decent player with a decent team.

B) The big bad bruisers need wet nurses to keep them in the fight.

Just ask Ult Thor, V Black Adam, Firelord, etc. None of these pieces were incredible because they were tough in a fight. They were incredible because they had long dials that you could run away back to a nurse to get healed up and then come back into the fight.

Countless times I'd have Black Adam 6 clicks into his fight and he'd ALWAYS make breakaway and run on back to momma. Same with Firelord. Same with Ult Thor.

Now, Nurses are a lot less effective because figures will gain 16-18 defenses near the end of their dial instead of the 14-12's from during the older sets. This means an 8 attack Nurse now needs to hit an above average roll making their inclusion less "automatic".

Its a good thought for sure but when it comes to game play players will use the rules and dials to their advantage.

A Superman with an 18 defense + Impervious is, to me, more comic-accurate than a Superman who needs a Wet-Nurse to dry his tears in a fight. That really is your choice.

[llyrghmnghyll]

A common theme to heros like Superman in the game (Heroclix) is they have too high a defense. Characters like Superman do not try to avoid being hit because they can take it. The whole point to Impervious is, "nah nah, you hit me and it didn't even hurt", lol. In fact, in most comics or stories I have read about Superman, the most common theme element is that he does not even try to avoid an attack by anyone, unless they demonstrate they have super strength or an obvious way to hurt him, Kryptonite for instance. He has even said so in many instances to his fellows, "I take the hits cause you can't".

Most of the folks I game with, and myself, have the same opinion about this point. Why should the folks with the ability to not get hurt by hits have the highest Defenses? Figures like Spider-Man and others who, if they get hit, are gonna really get hurt are the ones that should have a high Defense. They AVOID getting hit at all costs, that is how they survive. Which goes for every character that has a similar type of design - the Super Senses family etc.

Our group has basically come to the belief that no version of Superman should have a higher Defense than a '17', though there is some conjecture that the versions of him that have Defend could however bypass that restriction. Simply put he does not really need a higher number (as long as he has Impervious / Invulnerability) as it does not fit the character at all. Perhaps giving him a rising Defense after he looses things like Imperv and Invul would be more appropriate and comic accurate.

To drift a little further back on topic though, we feel this version of Superman is not bad at all. He at least is closer to the Defense numbers we think he should have. Since none of us has any of the 1939 era comics to refute it, the fact he does not have HSS is not a big deal, though of course it wouldn't hurt if he did lol. In any event we feel he is, like all the other Superman's to come down the pike so far, adequate though not entirely correct. Doesn't stop any of us from using him or having a good time playing him, but we keep hoping for a more properly balanced version some day. [Till then, my prime choice is the KC Superman from Unleashed. He is right in all ways to me, except he does not have the Superman team ability. If he did, i'd use him to this day, on nearly any team I wanted Supes to be on and that he would fit :P.]
getting hit doesn't mean getting hurt, and taking a hit doesn't mean taking damage. that's the reason for the defense numbers.

This superman isn't bad, but he's not as consistently useful as the BatB version, not as thematic as the Justice league version, and he's not as Superman-like as Man of steel. I'll use Vet Icons if I want a pure win superman and I'll play Young Superman if I want something cheap.

He's not bad, he's just unnecessary.

[tidge]

A playable, if unimpressive dial. Worth the points, but not super cheesy, which is generally what I like to see in dial design.

But I'll never play him.


I don't know that I'll *never* play this dial, but I don't want to play this dial. Here is why:

1) The Battle Fury. In the game of Heroclix, if a 170+ point figure has taken 3-5 clicks of damage through damage reducers, chances are good that it's because something is targetting thank figure at range. It's either Outwit or Psychic Blast, and it's unfair to leave Superman unable to make ranged attacks back.

2) The Defend, on what amounts to a modern 'nothing special' value of 17. I'm done with the late-dial shared defense powers on figures that deserve damage reducers: Wonder Woman, Superman, John Stewart...enough already.

3) The inability to push, especially late-dial. I grok the dial design effort to make a Superman that is not abusive by keeping his damage values in the realm of playability and forgoing HSS. However, if he had :d-indomitable:, at least he would appear to be a potential threat two-out-of-three turns, even if he isn't KOing figures left and right.

Minor quibble: At the end dial, I would have really liked to see both Psychic Blast and RCE on those 2-damage clicks, or at least :a-sharpshooter: on the dial so that he could hurt Invulnerable foes at the end dial. The late-dial ranged-combat emphasis seems sorely lacking without the ability to reliable get past Invulnerability.

[ultronMFer]

This is a very good piece. Not every Superman or tentpole needs HSS. Use your imagination people.

He's meant to start out blasting at range, and then charge in, take a few clicks, and flurry the crap outta some b****es. Then once his up-close target is KO'd, he goes back into ranged beatstick mode. I have seen him played a number of times and I've never seen him do anything less than awesome.

[Sir Pietro Maximoff]

Not a fan, but good piece overall.

[Preacher13]

He really teams nicely with the JSA Bats and WW from the DC75 set too, which is nice!

[Alpha-Omega]

getting hit doesn't mean getting hurt, and taking a hit doesn't mean taking damage. that's the reason for the defense numbers.

This superman isn't bad, but he's not as consistently useful as the BatB version, not as thematic as the Justice league version, and he's not as Superman-like as Man of steel. I'll use Vet Icons if I want a pure win superman and I'll play Young Superman if I want something cheap.

He's not bad, he's just unnecessary.


With that kind of frame of mind there would really be no use for half the figures they seem to keep doling out 'new' versions of. (Though I am sure WizKids' commercial concerns have more to say on that then any fan related desires.) While I kind of ascribe to some of that 'unnecessary' feeling myself, there is as I mentioned more than enough room for a lot of improvement on a great deal of the figures out there. The fact is, while I agree with the earlier post that said the way the rules are they could not do the lower defense and still make things jell, that was kind of the point being made. They needed to take the game another route as far as defense is concerned overall, in our opinion. But as they did what they did, and things are the way they are, we stand by the vote this figure is, as the OP said, magnificently average.

[Geof-Force]

It's a game where there's a limit to dial length and super-powered characters are next to mortal men. Yes, Superman could kill Wildcat easily, most likely if he wanted to. But, if a clix accurately reflected his damage potential compared to Wildcat, Superman would have 10 damage or something like that and Wildcat 1. It's just not applicable in the game, and really no Superman figure will ever be the perfect figure when comparing him to other clixs because Batman can always outwit his defense and hit him for a perplexed-up 3 damage.

Yes, this is a game. Yes, there relatives to be considered. BUT therein lies the problem. Point cost-wise, Wild Cat and SI Spiderman aren't even half of Emo-Supes'. But 4 clicks down, he's reduced to their level taking into consideration the Battle Fury which, as being justified is a Superman cutting loose, but wastes the points invested in his range and TA. Compared to WL Wonder Woman who is 1 point cheaper and has none of these limitations, and much better numbers and powers, this figure is a joke.

Perhaps a justification will be attempted that White Wonder is a Chase. Then let us compare him to Mongul, who at 3 more points still has a much better dial, powers and even a trait. Comparing to a rare still too much? How about Conner Kent who is cheaper and still plays much better than this version of Supes who is, supposedly, a Veteran version with years of combat experience, received Kryptonian military training, and who displays leadership skills.

Again, I am not saying this piece is unplayable, just below average for the points and does not play like a Superman piece which is disappointing considering that this is an Anniversary set and the Batman (Dick) and Wonder Woman are well done. Not even the excellent SR Superman (which is comic accurate and worth the point cost) can cover the lackluster nature of Emo-Supes.

[vamroc]

See people pleaded for low cost Superman and this is the result I'll be glad when the Superman set hits so I can get a 400 point "god killer" like this version from Our Worlds at War
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081026153754/marvel_dc/images/thumb/5/57/Action_Comics_782.jpg/300px-Action_Comics_782.jpg

True, Luthor took one look at Superman after he flew out of the sun and said "THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN UP AGAINST ALL THESE YEARS NO WONDER I KEEP LOSING TO HIM"
I feel out of my seat laughing when I read that line.

[werker]

This guy does work. Put not so special on him. I'll tell you how to fix the sculpt too, take "waiting for the bus" off and glue the black "ressurrection suit" Superman sculpt on...it feels appropriate for the weaker dial too. Tho I'd rather have had All Star Superman made in that set than economy Superman

[Zemothesinner]

It's anything more than terrible to me.

[werker]

I've decided to open myself up to critiqueing by offering my opinions on the Superman conundrum. Instead of giving Superman hypersonic speed, they should give him charge with a 20 movement. That's like hypersonic speed MINUS flying behind a bush after he hits luthor. (I don't recall Supes backpedaling even once the whole time he fought Doomsday) They never do anything with his freeze breath and they could easily make an ice token or some twist on incapacitate thats like force blast and doesn't need to be rolled (cause how do you mess up breathing?) super strength should be a trait. period They did it for powerboobs. That would open up his dial for psychic blast...the best way to represent his heat vision. He should also be a sharpshooter...since he specializes on "seeing". Seing things in different spectrums...seeing things thru walls...seeing things under his fist. Here is my most contraversial idea yet on a blog of any type...Superman should reduce damage dealt by 3. That way spider-man can't hurt him w/out Kryptonite.

[gatharion]

See people pleaded for low cost Superman and this is the result I'll be glad when the Superman set hits so I can get a 400 point "god killer" like this version from Our Worlds at War
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081026153754/marvel_dc/images/thumb/5/57/Action_Comics_782.jpg/300px-Action_Comics_782.jpg

True, Luthor took one look at Superman after he flew out of the sun and said "THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN UP AGAINST ALL THESE YEARS NO WONDER I KEEP LOSING TO HIM"
I feel out of my seat laughing when I read that line.

BWA HA HA HA
You want an Our Worlds at War Superman?
You know that's already been done, right?

ht141 LE Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 236
Archenemy: Doomsday (Blue)
Keywords: Justice League of America, JLA, Metropolis, Reporter
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst111116310111639101531191531091731081739816287162861527515264142KOKOKOKO

OWAW Superman was the first heroclix figure to sport the ever-popular power set of flying HSS and Super Strength. Couple that with a starting attack value that would still get respect today and a bunch of imperv and he was the "god-killer" of his day.

("His day" basically being until Amazo and then Black Adam came out, who could both serve the same function for much cheaper prices.)

[NeoShazam]

Again, I am not saying this piece is unplayable, just below average for the points and does not play like a Superman piece which is disappointing considering that this is an Anniversary set and the Batman (Dick) and Wonder Woman are well done.

Agreed except on WW DC75 being well done. Swap the top 2 clicks of Defend with Invuln and then we're talking ( even swap the 3rd and 4th clicks of Invuln back to defend).

Dickbats is great though.

I don't know that I'll *never* play this dial, but I don't want to play this dial. Here is why:

1) The Battle Fury.

Minor quibble: At the end dial, I would have really liked to see both Psychic Blast and RCE on those 2-damage clicks, or at least :a-sharpshooter: on the dial so that he could hurt Invulnerable foes at the end dial. The late-dial ranged-combat emphasis seems sorely lacking without the ability to reliable get past Invulnerability.

Agreed. Battle Fury becomes slightly more tolerable by ignoring Shape Change and Incap, but taking away mind control and range is tough.

Especially agree on the "minor quibble". It might be silly to complain about clicks 9 and 10 but if they amped up his attack value it seems kinda silly that Outwit could stop him from damaging an Invuln/Imperv figure.

[hanzoslash]

Being more of a Marvel guy, I can still say that this Superman is a bit underpowered. He (and World's Finest) should never have a damage value lower than 3. Superman should also have damage reducer as a trait, and then you could give him all the defend, willpower, and regeneration you want.

[DrugSex]

My opinion.
Not a bad figure, but i would like one less clix of live pro one clix of Hss. That will change everything. (or RS on front)

At first, i was very exceptical about his offensive capacities (because the firsts 10 Av), but to this day, he has destroy every Nightcrawler, Red Hulk and Groot he found in his way.

Teams I use (300 point format)

No KW
AN Superman
AN Jhonny Quick
JL Batman

Soldier
AN Superman
HA Captain America
SI Captain America

JLA
AN Superman
JL Batman
BA Oracle

Trinity
AN Superman
BB Batman
BB Diana Prince AE (Wonder Woman)

[manoftomorrow010]

Yes, this is a game. Yes, there relatives to be considered. BUT therein lies the problem. Point cost-wise, Wild Cat and SI Spiderman aren't even half of Emo-Supes'. But 4 clicks down, he's reduced to their level taking into consideration the Battle Fury which, as being justified is a Superman cutting loose, but wastes the points invested in his range and TA. Compared to WL Wonder Woman who is 1 point cheaper and has none of these limitations, and much better numbers and powers, this figure is a joke.

Perhaps a justification will be attempted that White Wonder is a Chase. Then let us compare him to Mongul, who at 3 more points still has a much better dial, powers and even a trait. Comparing to a rare still too much? How about Conner Kent who is cheaper and still plays much better than this version of Supes who is, supposedly, a Veteran version with years of combat experience, received Kryptonian military training, and who displays leadership skills.

Again, I am not saying this piece is unplayable, just below average for the points and does not play like a Superman piece which is disappointing considering that this is an Anniversary set and the Batman (Dick) and Wonder Woman are well done. Not even the excellent SR Superman (which is comic accurate and worth the point cost) can cover the lackluster nature of Emo-Supes.

Okay, looking at other posts I will agree with anyone Superman should have a trait for Super Strength.

I'm not justifying anything due to CUR-SR-CH because those don't necessarily determine the powers and skills of a figure. Mongul is a being that is close to Superman in Strength with a device allowing him to Phasing/Teleport.

This Mongul figure is Mongul with multiple power rings so of course he'll have TK and Psy Blast (which I don't think is a good representation of what the rings can do because no Sinestro Corps ring is going to damage Superman from a comic-standpoint.

This Superman's attack values are on average better than Mongul's, his dial is longer and yes, I will concede the point that the lack of damage reducers at the end-dial of this Superman is poor.

However, I don't understand how he doesn't "play" like Superman? I guess that's just where we differ in opinion. He still charges, punches with an object and does lots of damage. He still has range ability (and I am one who is opposed to him having the Sharpshooter ability) and damage potential at the end, and across his dial that is more than Mongul's.

Outwit is a deus-ex-machina that can render ANY figure without Quintessence or Power Cosmic to be damaged heavily and crippled. I've had Crisis Darkseid (AMAZING for his points) be wiped out by a swarm of Batman villains in 500 points because of multiple Outwits on my opponent's force.

Again, I agree this Superman isn't the best, but he is a good figure, I think and I enjoy using him in 500-less point games. I think this was a first attempt at an affordable, yet powerful Superman piece under 200 points that wasn't Golden Age version of him. I think Wizkids/NECA will give us another in the upcoming set that will probably be better than this one due to trial and error. But, I still think this piece can hold its own and plays like Superman and could still beat Mongul in a fight lol

[vamroc]

BWA HA HA HA
You want an Our Worlds at War Superman?
You know that's already been done, right?

ht141 LE Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 236
Archenemy: Doomsday (Blue)
Keywords: Justice League of America, JLA, Metropolis, Reporter
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst111116310111639101531191531091731081739816287162861527515264142KOKOKOKO

OWAW Superman was the first heroclix figure to sport the ever-popular power set of flying HSS and Super Strength. Couple that with a starting attack value that would still get respect today and a bunch of imperv and he was the "god-killer" of his day.

("His day" basically being until Amazo and then Black Adam came out, who could both serve the same function for much cheaper prices.)

Yeah, and I still preferred Infinity Challenge Thanos

ic141 U Thanos
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 185
Keywords: Cosmic, Infinity Watch, Ruler, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst1213183101417310151749141739131639131528121428111328101227911278102KOKOKOKO

With a little perplex to boost damage he's STILL a wrecking machine

[CFKane1982]

I only ever use 1 Superman...the Hypertime Superman Chase Fig from Crisis at 238 pts he is by far the best Superman

[larthosgrr8]

my fav superman is actually the clark kent from CD! he has the psyblast and running shot with superman TA. all this in a nice pretty price tag.

i played this reviewed superman again and he rocks. play him as a ranged piece and he owns stealthed characters. if need be have him run up and smite something. thats the thing about him. outwit a defense and he hits for 6 by himself. how is that not good? once based he should decimate everything that comes close. once the based figs are dead, he can then rce anyone he can draw LOF to. a shame ppl can't see him for what he is....

[Kilowog17]

If I was going to play a Superman piece, this wouldn't make the short list.
By the way --- Fedoras ARE still cool!