New HC FAQs

[Draddog]

WizKids has just uploaded the new versions of the <A HREF="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/marvel/howtoplay.asp?cid=36403">Marvel</A> and <A HREF="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/dc/howtoplay.asp?cid=37016">DC</A> FAQ's. Two major things to note, the HTML version is gone and an interesting ruling on Mind Control with mulitple attacks.

[Styrix]

Is it just me or do those links not work?

Oh, and WOW, that was quick!

The links work if you replace "hcrealms" with "wizkidsgames" in the begining of the url.

[Styrix]

These links work:
Marvel (www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/marvel/howtoplay.asp?cid=36403)
and
DC (www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/dc/howtoplay.asp?cid=37016)

[remywokeup]

Elektra with mind control, okay, I can buy that. She hypnotize people in the Elektra: Assassin series and that's what this figure represents.

However, it seems to be a little unnerving that she's the only one with 2 arrows of it. It's okay that she has 2 arrows, but she shouldn't be the only one.

Enough compaining. The FAQ does open up a new combo with her. Mind Control a brute, like Firelord, and their taxi, fly them far away from the action, and then have the the brute blast his taxi into the next dimension. Sounds fun!

Too bad only Elektra can do it.

[kdem2357]

So, does the new FAQ mean that you can only hit two guys with mind control? If you perplex someones arrows up to 3, you can still only mind control two people, right?

[Tarnish]

You cannot perplex the lightning bolts. You may only change the numbers of combat values.

[quixotequest]

It's a little controversial whether Perplex can increase someone's "arrows." It seems logical since it says Perplex can affect "printed values." Arrows are a "printed value" even if an abstract one. Since it's not a numerical, printed value, many have ruled that Perplex cannot affect it. I was hoping that WK would rule on this in this edition of the FAQ.

If it is ruled kosher to Perplex up arrows, then, indeed, Elektra:Assasin will be able to Mind Control 3 (or more) figures at a time. You would just resolve each attack, one at a time, and she would take damage for the combined totals of all MC'd figures. Cool.

[lavinah]

From my reading of the FAQ, you could not MC Firelord and his taxi, use the taxi to move firelord and then frag the taxi.

Each action must be resolved sepratley - quote:

3. Once successful targets have been determined, Player 1 may assign an action to whichever figures he’s mind-controlled in any order, but the first figure’s action must be resolved before he may assign an action to the second, and so on.
4. The mind-controlled figure is considered a friendly figure to Player 1’s force during the assigned action. As soon the assigned action is finished the figure is no longer considered friendly to Player 1’s force. Note: This allows the mind-controlled figures to attack each other during Player 1’s action.

So, you could MC the Cheeselord and his taxi, but each is only considered friendly to you during their action - thus the taxi and cheeselord would not be friendly to each other at the same time.

I'm a bit weirded by the ruling that you add the points to figure the feedback damage from MC - I think it should be each figure; but I guess that could be abused.

-lavinah

[lavinah]

In re-reading the posts, I realized that that wasn't the case remywokeup suggested...oh well.

-lavinah

[CyberVenom]

My computer (w/ Acrobat) won't let me download the rules properly for Marvel or DC, and I'm a rules hog. Could someone help me out please?

[CyberVenom]

Nevermind, got it working. :)

[Marshal Law]

Originally posted by lavinah
In re-reading the posts, I realized that that wasn't the case remywokeup suggested...oh well.

-lavinah

You misread the post, but you unknowingly pointed out a flaw in it. Because the two figures are never considered friendly to each other at the same time while either is in your control, in order to move the two away you'd have to attempt a break away roll. I.e. moving either figure away is at best a 50/50 shot.

Not to mention the "fly them away" (implying both) and then having one "blast" the other is two turns worth of actions. Even assuming the "fly them away" means "but keep them in Mind Control range" and yet means "but not close enough to get pounded by them", those two turns means a push, plus two mind controls of probably 100+ points worth of figures. I.e. 3 points of damage self inflicted. Hardly a masterful plan. Simply having the taxi alone (attempt to) move away, then having the hitter take a shot at them in the same turn, works far better. Net result is the same, the hitter isolated from its now wounded taxi, the hitter requiring a push to regroup or counterstrike, but at the cost of only 1 self inflicted damage.

Better still is the old school single target Mind Control the hitter to pound the taxi, then spend a second action for your own hitter to finish the taxi or pound the hitter. Mind Control works best as a support ability backed up by conventional force, not as a stand alone assault power.

[Magneto666]

Originally posted by lavinah
From my reading of the FAQ, you could not MC Firelord and his taxi, use the taxi to move firelord and then frag the taxi.

Each action must be resolved sepratley - quote:

3. Once successful targets have been determined, Player 1 may assign an action to whichever figures he’s mind-controlled in any order, but the first figure’s action must be resolved before he may assign an action to the second, and so on.
4. The mind-controlled figure is considered a friendly figure to Player 1’s force during the assigned action. As soon the assigned action is finished the figure is no longer considered friendly to Player 1’s force. Note: This allows the mind-controlled figures to attack each other during Player 1’s action.

So, you could MC the Cheeselord and his taxi, but each is only considered friendly to you during their action - thus the taxi and cheeselord would not be friendly to each other at the same time.

I'm a bit weirded by the ruling that you add the points to figure the feedback damage from MC - I think it should be each figure; but I guess that could be abused.

-lavinah

OK, maybe I'm missing something here.....but let's try this: say that Firelord and his taxi (for this example, let's use Vulture) are next to each other at the end of your opponent's turn, but not in b2b contact with any of your figures. Then, let's say you decide to use the new-&-improved Elektra to MC both of them. Elektra rolls enough to get them both.....now, since the ruling states that you can assign the actions in whichever order you wish as long as the first action is resolved before using the second one, why couldn't Vulture taxi Cheeselord a slight distance, which would resolve the first action, then have FL whack Vulture with the second action?? Since both FL and Vulture are MC'ed at the same time, wouldn't that make them BOTH "friendly figures" to you?? I could see if you had to make each roll seperate for each figure that you are MC'ing, but if its ONE roll for BOTH, then it'd be a simultaneous thing, wouldn't it?? So I'm thinking this example would be perfectly legal.....taxi FL out with the Vulture on the first action, then smack the taxi with Cheeselord for the second one.

[Magneto666]

....I get it now......the MC'ed figures are only friendly to you during their given actions, not before. Kind of strange, since if you had a successful single roll to get both figs MC'ed, I think they should be simultaneously friendly BEFORE the actions are given....they're already under your control, right? Like I said before, I could see there being a difference if you made two seperate MC rolls, one for each figure you're attempting to MC......but if you get both with one roll, you should be able to pull off just about anything you want......just my opinion.

[MisterId]

One: It States In DC FAQ That Perplex Can Effect Range, Speed, Attack, Defence, And Damage Values it Does not Say Targets So You Cannot Perplex Lightning Bolts. If That Were So You Would See Brainiac Running Aroung With 6 Harley's. So Thats A No Go There Is No Way Wizkids would have let that slip by them.

Two: This Still hasnt solved all the problems with mind control. Take for instance the Demonstation They Give In The DC It Goes All the Way Up To The Point Where Batman ends his turn and gets a second token, But What it doesnt Say Does Player One (The Person Using Brainiac 13) Get To Option Off His Willpower So That He Does Take A Click Of Damage.

Also In The Sinerio Where Player 1 is Using Proffessor X, Player 2 is Using Exp White Queen And Vet Hulk.
* Player 1 Uses Proffessor X To Succesfully Mind Control White Queen.
* Player 1 Then Uses White Queen To Succesfully Mind Control The Hulk.

Does That Mean Since Both Mind Control Actions Do Not End Till The End Of The Targeted Characters Turn Are All Three Friendly Figures At That Point In Time, or Could The Hulk Attack White Queen If Able...???

-E

[metzgarob]

all i have to say about this new faq setup is this

i think that it will become really irritating locating the new additions to the faq each time its updated i liked the old html version with the red highlights on the new additions

thats all im sayin

[Heroclix1234]

Originally posted by quixotequest
It's a little controversial whether Perplex can increase someone's "arrows." It seems logical since it says Perplex can affect "printed values." Arrows are a "printed value" even if an abstract one. Since it's not a numerical, printed value, many have ruled that Perplex cannot affect it. I was hoping that WK would rule on this in this edition of the FAQ.

If it is ruled kosher to Perplex up arrows, then, indeed, Elektra:Assasin will be able to Mind Control 3 (or more) figures at a time. You would just resolve each attack, one at a time, and she would take damage for the combined totals of all MC'd figures. Cool.

Seriously...where does stuff like this come from? Perplex is not controversial in any way related to this. (There are tons of other ways it is.) And we aren't even discussing changing it in the Judge's forum. The FAQ is very clear.

Perplex can affect range, attack, defense, speed, and damage values.

It cannot affect the number of arrows.

[CaptainCarl]

thiers also one big problem with controlling 2 characters at the same time

you state that they are both friendly so you can attack taxi then taxi carry attacker or visa versa

but if their both friendly you cant attack friendly figs so would this mean both figs that are MC have to attack different targets than eachother cause they are considered friendly ??

hopefully this gets cleared up

thecaptain

[Comte]

Two: This Still hasnt solved all the problems with mind control. Take for instance the Demonstation They Give In The DC It Goes All the Way Up To The Point Where Batman ends his turn and gets a second token, But What it doesnt Say Does Player One (The Person Using Brainiac 13) Get To Option Off His Willpower So That He Does Take A Click Of Damage.

Well the way to solve this problem is to define when exactly dose pushing damage take place. If the pushing damage takes place at the end of the turn then batman would get no damage as his willpower would be turned back on by then.

If pushing damage happens IMEADIATLY after an action then you could give batman his second action token, and have him be pushed. This is because the pushing damage happens imeadiatly after the action ends but before willpower can be turned on by the owning player.

So really the thing that needs resolving is when exaclty push damage takes place. I am more inclined to use the second senario as it would make my favorite power better. So someone else might want to make a more final judgement as the timing of pushing.

>>>>(QUOTE BUTTON STOPPED WORKING) Also In The Sinerio Where Player 1 is Using Proffessor X, Player 2 is Using Exp White Queen And Vet Hulk.
* Player 1 Uses Proffessor X To Succesfully Mind Control White Queen.
* Player 1 Then Uses White Queen To Succesfully Mind Control The Hulk.
Does That Mean Since Both Mind Control Actions Do Not End Till The End Of The Targeted Characters Turn Are All Three Friendly Figures At That Point In Time, or Could The Hulk Attack White Queen If Able...??? <<<<<

Erm this is confusing. Anyway to clear this up I will direct you to the FAQ page 8 bullet 4. This should clear some things up a bit. So the way that your senario would work is that:

1: Prof X mindcontrols white queen
2: White Queen mindcontrols Hulk
3: Hulk dose damage
4: hulk reverts to players control
5: white queen takes damage then reverts to player control
6: proffesor x takes no damage

I think that is right. I hope so other wise I just made an ### of myself the other day when something similar came up.

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by quixotequest
It's a little controversial whether Perplex can increase someone's "arrows." It seems logical since it says Perplex can affect "printed values." Arrows are a "printed value" even if an abstract one. Since it's not a numerical, printed value, many have ruled that Perplex cannot affect it. I was hoping that WK would rule on this in this edition of the FAQ.

If it is ruled kosher to Perplex up arrows, then, indeed, Elektra:Assasin will be able to Mind Control 3 (or more) figures at a time. You would just resolve each attack, one at a time, and she would take damage for the combined totals of all MC'd figures. Cool.

It's not controversial at all. The only things you can perplex are SPEED, ATTACK, DEFENSE, DAMAGE, and RANGE. The lightening bolts do not count as range.

[shin-goji]

Wow, big news on the big fig front. Sentinels cannot be captured and neither can Sinestro Constructs, which means they cannot capture each other. Original wording of the instructions could lead you to believe a Sentinel could heft the yellow lantern over his shoulder and walk home. No more! :)

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by metzgarob
all i have to say about this new faq setup is this

i think that it will become really irritating locating the new additions to the faq each time its updated i liked the old html version with the red highlights on the new additions

thats all im sayin

Adjust the color on your monitor, nothing's changed. The new updates are tinted red.

[Red Gambit]

Too bad professor X still is very lame. He should have 2 or 3 arrows of mind control in his vet version. That would make him worth the 83 points! In the comics he could mindwipe a ton of people at once if he wanted...

In the future they should make a walking Professor X unique, as he is now once again a walking man. It should have more mobility and arrows of Mind Control, and 1 damage like the unique. And Psychic blast! Yeah.

[Paradox Factor]

Yaknow, I'm suprised no one else saw this.

"Clix" Points
We put these on boxes for a promotion we considered, but did not run. So right now they are of zero value. But save them. If we change our minds in the future, you’ll have a head start.

So the hundreds of piles of clix points I have might be worth something. Cool!

[Kid Zemo]

Originally posted by Comte
Well the way to solve this problem is to define when exactly dose pushing damage take place. If the pushing damage takes place at the end of the turn then batman would get no damage as his willpower would be turned back on by then.

If pushing damage happens IMEADIATLY after an action then you could give batman his second action token, and have him be pushed. This is because the pushing damage happens imeadiatly after the action ends but before willpower can be turned on by the owning player.

So really the thing that needs resolving is when exaclty push damage takes place. I am more inclined to use the second senario as it would make my favorite power better. So someone else might want to make a more final judgement as the timing of pushing.
Actually, it's not about the timing of applying push damage. It is about what powers the figure has during the attack. Mind Control isn't the only situation where this comes up. What if Batman's Willpower were Outwitted and he pushed to hit the Outwitter, knocking him off Outwit? What if Red Skull pushes to attack while on a non-Willpower clicka and rolls critical miss, clicking into Willpower before push damage is resolved?

The answer to all these questions is that if the fig had Willpower in effect when the action is declared, then it doesn't take push damage. If it is not on (Outwitted, not on that click, MC'ing player has turned it off) then the push damage applies regardless of what else happens.

Kid Zemo

[Spiritual_Ex]

Originally posted by Magneto666


OK, maybe I'm missing something here.....but let's try this: say that Firelord and his taxi (for this example, let's use Vulture) are next to each other at the end of your opponent's turn, but not in b2b contact with any of your figures. Then, let's say you decide to use the new-&-improved Elektra to MC both of them. Elektra rolls enough to get them both.....now, since the ruling states that you can assign the actions in whichever order you wish as long as the first action is resolved before using the second one, why couldn't Vulture taxi Cheeselord a slight distance

You are very much missing a very important something. The new ruling says that one figure is mind controlled, and an action is taken, and then the other figure is MC and their action is taken. Thus if you chose to MC both Firelord and Vulture they would never be mind controlled at the same time, meaning while each of them was being mind controlled they would be on different teams, and thereby would not be able to taxi one or the other anywhere.

[Magneto666]

...after rereading the wording of the FAQ, I've got it down now. But I still think that if you're only making one roll to MC two figures at the same time, they should both be "friendly figures" BEFORE the actions take place, not WHEN the actions take place. My theory is if you're making one single roll and comparing it against 2 defense numbers (one on each figure you're trying to control, naturally) you get them both MC'ed at the exact same time with a successful roll.....the wording of the FAQ says the MC'ed figures are only friendly to you during their action, which would mean you wouldn't be able to taxi a figure, since that other figure wouldn't be "friendly" to you yet. But I think since you've already sucessfully MC'ed both figures with your roll, why wouldn't they both be friendly to you BEFORE the actions are given out?? Like I said before, I could see this being different if you had to make two seperate rolls, one for each figure that you are trying to mind control, but since you're only making one roll to get BOTH figures then they should be friendly to you simultaneously, regardless of what actions you plan to dish out.

Of course, my opinion on this will not amount to squat, but I'm thinking of implementing this as a house rule amongst my Clix friends to see how it works out.

[Kensou]

Originally posted by Magneto666

Then, let's say you decide to use the new-&-improved Elektra to MC both of them. Elektra rolls enough to get them both..... first action, then have FL whack Vulture with the second action?? Since both FL and Vulture are MC'ed at the same time, wouldn't that make them BOTH "friendly figures" to you?? but if its ONE roll for BOTH, then it'd be a simultaneous thing.
First Of All, I didn't think that the two MC are both at the same time
Originally posted by Magneto666
then smack the taxi with Cheeselord for the second one.
And second if they are both at the same time u can shot a friend of u, firelord can't shot her taxi because, he is a friend

[Dexceus]

Originally posted by Paradox Factor
Yaknow, I'm suprised no one else saw this.

"Clix" Points
We put these on boxes for a promotion we considered, but did not run. So right now they are of zero value. But save them. If we change our minds in the future, you’ll have a head start.

So the hundreds of piles of clix points I have might be worth something. Cool!

Ummm...that has been in there for awhile.

And apparently there isn't click points on the new Xplosion boosters.

[CaptainCarl]

for sure

disregard my earlier post as well after reading the faqs you take turns and when each turn takin thier actions so with would resolve any timing or breakaway or attack questions

nothin to complex now

thecaptain

[Heroclix1234]

Magneto666 is correct. If you are MCing two figures then right after the MC (assuming you successfully MCed both figures) both figures are friendly to the MCing figure.

You then assign an action to one of the two MCed figures...your pick. (So having one MCed figure taxi another MCed figure would be allowed.) After the first figure finishes its MC, that figure returns to being an opposing figure. (So taxing would no longer be allowed. And attacking each other would be.) You would then do an action with the second MCed figure who is the only friendly at that time.

[Spiritual_Ex]

The problem with that is that if you are MCing them both at the same time they would be friendly to eachother and unable to attack eachother. This is clearly not the case as the FAQ states that MC figures go one after another and are able to attack one another. As such they cannot be friendly towards eachother at the same time, so they cannot taxi oneanother.

Take your pick, MC'd at exactly the same time = friendly therefore can taxi but not attack.

or MC'ed in succession and therefore not friendly towards eachother at the same time and can attackeachother but not taxi.

Clearly the second circumstance is correct becasue this is what the FAQ states, right? They can attack eachother, therefore they shouldn't be able to taxi oneanother

[Heroclix1234]

You're reading the FAQ wrong Spiritual_Ex. (Not that it's the easiest thing in the world to read.)

Notice when the note about attacking each other is listed. It's under number 4. Not number 3. If it was under number 3, you'd have a point. The reason it is under number 4 is because they become opposing figures (the two MCed figures) after the first MC figure completes its action.

From the FAQ: The mind-controlled figure is considered a friendly figure to Player 1’s force during the assigned action. As soon the assigned action is finished the figure is no longer considered friendly to Player 1’s force.

They can't both attack each other. The figure that performs its MC action second can attack the figure that performed its MC action first.

But the reverse is not true.

Neither of the examples you gave are correct.

Player 1
MC 1
MC 2

Prior to MC -- Player 1 Friendly MC 1 Opp MC 2 Opp
After MC -- All friendly
After MC 1 does action -- Player 1 Friendly MC 1 Opp MC 2 Friend
After MC 2 does action -- Player 1 Friendly MC 1 Opp MC 2 Opp

[malchyor]

althought we don't know what those changes will be yet, i'm curious to see if the new mage knight changes due out monday will then be shifted over to heroclix? mage knight already has rules about characters who are moved via TK can't take actions after being moved.....

[Fuzzy]

The FAQ states "Note: This allows the mind-controlled figures to attack each other during Player 1's action." It's plural. The figures are never friendly to each other and cannot taxi each other.

[Psylockeslover]

4. The Mind-Controlled figure is considered a friendly figure to Player 1's force during the assigned action.

Not before their action, not after their action. So, the entire action goes like this:

1. Player 1 MC's 2 figures.
2. The first figure takes his action. At this time, figure 1 is friendly, figure 2 is not.
3. The second figure takes his action. At this time, figure 1 is no longer friendly, and figure 2 is.
4. Player 1 figures point total of the MC'd figures and assigns damage, ect.

At no time during the MC actions are the 2 figures friendly to each other (except before and after the MC), so you cannot use one to taxi the other.

[Heroclix1234]

I love when people like to argue this...

Here was the question in the judges forum:


E----PB----------K

E= new Electra on the edge of an elevated terrain
P= Prof X
B= Booster Gold
K= Key

I control Electra only.

I stand at the edge of a rooftop, make a double MC roll against both the prof and Booster, succeed.

Are they both friendly right now? I can choose which one to use first arbitrarily?

Here was the answer by stend (a well respected judge) before the ruling...

Yes, and yes.

And then it was asked...Can I pick up prof X with Booster and Taxi him within range of the Key?

stend again...You would need to taxi him adjacent to the Key, because once Booster's action is completed, he will no longer be friendly to Prof X.

Here is HeroComplex's comment after the ruling by Chapeau.

Wow. Stend can tell the future.

I've already explained to you why this is the case. Now how many of you think you understand these rules better than HeroComplex?

[Psylockeslover]

It notes in the FAQ's that the two MC'd figs can attack each other. If they are friendly at the same time, they cannot attack each other. If they can attack each other, then they are not friendly to each other.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too....

[Heroclix1234]

What it means is that MC Figure 2 can attack MC Figure 1. MC Figure one cannot attack MC Figure 2 because they are friendly at the time MC Figure 1 is MCed.

But...given the way you all have decided to read this, I posted it in the judges forum. So hold off on going either way till we get an answer there. Once it comes down, I will make sure that we can understand what the answer is and then it will be posted in here.

Sound fair?

[Psylockeslover]

Note: This allows the Mind-Controlled figures to attack each other during Player 1's action.


That said, I await the ruling.....

[Magneto666]

I didn't think I'd stir up all of this over an opinion!! First off, let me thank Heroclix1234 for backing me up on my idea.....I honestly believe that if you are making a single roll to mind control two figures at the same time that the figures should be friendly at the same time, not after one is given an action first. If the rule stated that you had to make two seperate rolls to MC the two figures in question, then yes, I could see the first figure being friendly until after the action, followed by the second figure becoming friendly, because you're making two seperate rolls. The issue I have with the ruling is timing-based. If you make one single MC roll for two figures, and that roll is successful, why should one figure be friendly while the other is not?? You've already made a successful roll, meaning that BOTH of those figures are MC'ed!! THAT is the issue I have with the rule.

However....having said all of that, the FAQ does state that a figure that is MC'ed is not friendly until it is given an action, which of course means taxiing would be impossible, since you can't taxi non-friendly figures. Trust me, I like the idea of MC'ing two adjacent figures, then having them pound on each other....nothing beats doing damage to your opponent's figures than with his own figures!! It's one of my favorite elements of this game. I'd just like to see one of two things happen with this rule:

1. When attempting to MC two figures, make two seperate rolls... that way the timing issue becomes a non-issue, since you're actually attempting to MC two figures in order (first roll for the first figure, second roll for the second one).

or

2. Let the singe roll rule stand and allow both figures to become friendly at the same time, therefore allowing the taxiing that I described earlier in this thread.

According to the wording of the FAQ, #2 above is a definite no-no. But it doesn't mean that #2 is an invalid point, either, if you take the timing of the successful roll into consideration.

[Psylockeslover]

I will say no more until i hear an oficial ruling....

[Tsannik]

So, the entire action goes like this:

1. Player 1 MC's 2 figures A and B
2. Both Figures A and B are now friendly to Player 1. They cannot attack each other.
3. Player 1 uses Figure A to carry figure B (as figures A and B are considered friendly).
4. Figure A's turn ends. Figure A is now opposing. Player 1 then uses Figure B to attack Figure A.
5. Figure B's turn ends. Figure B is now opposing. Figures A and B are now friendly to each other as they are now under the control of Player 2.
6. Player 1 figures point total of the MC'd figures and assigns damage, ect.

EDITED::: I now see what the problem is. For now, this example as I've shown above should be how it is played. I do realize that on the FAQ just a couple of entries up is something that will not allow the scenario I just gave to work. I'll endeavor to get a more concrete ruling for you on this.

I want everyone to know there a alot of things in here that were discussed and resolved one way in the Judges forum and then put out VERY differently on this FAQ. I may be on Sunday to answer some questions, but I'll definetly be on Monay to tackle everyone's questions.

[rotru]

I am prepared to accept either ruling on this, but as it stands, the scenario Tsannik provided is not possible. It clearly states that the mind controlled figure is only considered friendly during the assigned action. Not before, and not after. Therefore, the two would never be friendly at the same time and could, indeed, attack each other freely, as stated.

If this was not the intent of the ruling, that's fine. The wording of the FAQ just needs work. I personally don't think that this matter of timing will affect my enjoyment of the game either way. Although, who is more likely to be in range of this attack than a heavy-hitter and his/her taxi? In such a case, the controlling character would surely move the taxi first, taking the other figure along for the ride. Still, ranged attacks would be impossible (except in limited circumstances, and usually only against the taxi). We'll see. Let us know as soon as you find out, Tsannik!

[WarHULK]

Am I the only one that thinks that it means that they act as "friendly" but can also attack one another? Thus, one could decide to taxi or attack one another? I dunno... seems like the best, most useful way to have things...

[Dalmatio69]

with Psylockeslover. Either figure A or figure B is taking an action, it is not possible for 2 figures to take an action at the same time. As it says "only during the assigned action", then they cant be friendly.

However, they could suck at wording, and when saying "the assigned action" just mean the MC action in general.


To Heroclix1234, Herocomplex and "stend's" opinions on the rules are no more valid than Psylockeslovers or anyone elses. I, too, will await for an offical ruling.

-Ryan

[Psylockeslover]

Heroclix: I just want to say that, although it seams that way, I do not believe you are completely wrong in this matter. It seams that the discussion on the judges forum (which I am not privy to) and the subsequent ruling there, and the wording on the FAQ's took 2 completely different directions. Personally, I don't really care much which way the final ruling goes, as this (at this point) only affects 1 figure. But I firmly believe it should be one way or the other, not both. As I said earlier, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[MisterId]

A = Elektra
B = Professor X
C = White Queen
D = Firelord
E = Hulk

A MC B + C
B since not Friendly MC C
C Then MC D
D Shoots E
B's Turn Ends
C Then MC B
B MC E
E Hits D
Everyones Turn Ends
Booth B + C Push in one Turn.

That Would Be Pretty Sick...

-E

[scaryscrawler]

Originally posted by Red Gambit
Too bad professor X still is very lame. He should have 2 or 3 arrows of mind control in his vet version. That would make him worth the 83 points! In the comics he could mindwipe a ton of people at once if he wanted...

In the future they should make a walking Professor X unique, as he is now once again a walking man. It should have more mobility and arrows of Mind Control, and 1 damage like the unique. And Psychic blast! Yeah.

Agree; he is the most powerful mentalist in the Marvel Universe, though I think he would be over one hundred points if they did a walking Xavier unique.

[TheSpirit]

Anybody have a clue why Mastermind, Perplex, etc. *still* haven't been added to the Marvel FAQ? With the release of CT and XP, there are now more Marvel sets with these powers than DC ones. Shouldn't this information be added, so that we don't have to print off two virtually identical FAQs?

[Psylockeslover]

Because that would make life way too easy for us....:)

[Melkoloran]

I need someone to mind control me so I know how all this stuff works. :p

[Victor V.D.]

Isn't it about time WizKids published an updated rulebook? Considering the FAQ is 5 times bigger than the little old rulebook...

[remywokeup]

It's true, I misinterpreted the FAQ. You can't use an enemies taxi to taxi them, they are friendly to you at different times during the mind control and therefore, never friendly to each other.

[Psylockeslover]

Is that the official ruling by Chapeau?

[Tsannik]

Nothing yet has been confirmed or denied by the arbitrator.

[DS-00-0, FSD]

Originally posted by Tsannik
Nothing yet has been confirmed or denied by the arbitrator.

"I have no recollection of that, Senator."

[webhead817]

I'm not sure what the confusion is. Unless the rules arbitrator specifically contradicts the faq, the faq stands.

[mulkabu]

I must say that for me the most relevant ruling is that on "Flyers pushed off buildings don't take damage". Its a great ruling as flyers falling to their doom always felt a trifle silly!
Brian
ps It alsos aids my enjoyment that I did a balls load of damage to OWAW Superman with the Blue beetle this weekend just gone by pushing off a building not once but twice!

[Psylockeslover]

Webhead: I've quoted and argued on this thread with the FAQ's to back me, and I've been told I was flat out wrong because it was ruled on the judges forum differently. Personally, I stand by the FAQ's.

Here is my arguement:
Quoted from the FAQ's:
Mind control may be used on multiple targets if the character has multiple ranged attacks indicated on its base (by multiple lightningbolts next to its range value). This works as follows:
1. Player1 declares a Mind Control Attack on two characters to which he has a clear line of fire.
2. Player 1 rolls the dice once and compares the attack roll result to the defense value of each character targeted. A target with a low defense value may be affected, while others with higher defense values may not be.

No arguements here. It's all pretty self-expanitory. Nothing out of the ordinary for multi-target attacks.

3. Once successful targets have been determined, Player 1 may assign an action to whichever figures he's mind-controlled in any order, but the first figure's action must be resolved before he may assign an action to the second, and so on.

Note the bold text.

4. The mind-controlled figure is considered a friendly figure to Player 1's force during the assigned action. As soon (as) the assigned action is finished, the figure is no longer considered friendly to Player 1's force. Note: This allows the mind-controlled figures to attack each other during Player 1's action.

Here is the arguement. The way I read this, the MC'd figures are friendly to Player 1 only during the action that Player 1 assigns to that figure.

There are 3 different interpretations to this, as far as I can tell, in this thread.
First, both figures are considered friendly to Player 1 for the entire MC action. If this is the case, either figure can taxi the other, but they cannot attack each other. This is ruled out by the note that the figures can attack each other, as per the note in the above quote.
Second: Both figures are friendly at the start of the MC action, and they are no longer friendly after they are assigned an action. This would allow Figure 1 to taxi Figure 2, then allow Figure 2 to attack Figure 1. This is supported by the statement "As soon as the assigned action is finished, the figure is no longer considered to friendlyto Player 1's force." This is again ruled out by the same note, that allows the figures (note:plural) to attack each other.
Third(my stance): Each figure is considered friendly to Player 1 only when they are assigned thier action. This is ilustrated by the following:
P1 successfully MCs two figures.
Figure 1 is assigned an action. At this time, Fig 1 is friendly, Fig 2 is not.
Fig 1 finishes his assigned action and reverts control to P2.
Fig 2 is assigned his action. At this time, Fig 1 is friendly, Fig 1 is not.
Fig 2 finishes his action and reverts control to P2.
Points are figured, Elektra takes her damage, and ends her action.

I feal this interpretation is supported by the above highlighted quotes.


Am I completely wrong here?

[WarHULK]

Uhm, mine would be the fourth then...

I think it means that they act like friendly other than the fact that they may attack one another. Thus you could either attack one another or have one taxi the other then attack with the second piece....

That's how I understood it when I first read it... seems like the most playable way to me...

[Psylockeslover]

In the 'interest' of 'consistancy', either they are friendly, or they are not. It's the timing of when they are and are not friendly to each other that seams to be in question.

[webhead817]

OK, so for an example...

Team A has Elektra (assassin)
Team B has Wasp adjacent to She-Hulk

Elektra rolls a successful mind control attack vs. both opposing figures.

She has the choice of which to give an action to first. Elektra chooses Wasp.
For the duration of the assigned action to Wasp, Wasp is considered to be on Team A.
She can either attack She-Hulk, or perhaps roll break-away to try and move away.
(She can’t “taxi” She-Hulk, because She-Hulk is still on team B.)
Team A’s player decides to have Wasp try to break away, but fails.
Wasp gets an action token. The action is over. Wasp is back to team B.
Now, the Elektra’s owner resolves the mind control action with She-Hulk.
She-Hulk is now on team A.
She-Hulk attacks Wasp for four and hits, gets an action token. She-Hulk reverts to Team B.
Both mind control actions are now resolved, and Elektra takes a Click of damage from the combined total of 153 points.

[Marshal Law]

Originally posted by Psylockeslover
I feal this interpretation is supported by the above highlighted quotes.

Am I completely wrong here? [/B]

You might be, but then it would mean the FAQ is incorrect.

The FAQ clearly states (#4) a figure is considered to have changed sides (friendly to the mind controller's side) only for the duration of the assigned action. Not when first successfully hit with the mind control attack, and not after the action is finished. The FAQ also clearly states (#3) that each assigned mind control action must be resolved (i.e. finished) before any others are assigned - and since the "friendly to mind controller's side" status is clearly stated to only be in affect from action assignment to finish (i.e. resolution), there is no window for overlap in mind controlled figure's friendly status. In effect the FAQ works as if two entirely separate mind control attacks had been made - and this is probably the cleanest way of handling things.

Now this may not be an intended interpretation for the rules, but there is no avenue for debate in the wording of that FAQ. The "note" for allowing attacks is clearly not, as others have suggested, a special rule exception to the FAQ but a clear cut result of the FAQ rule.

One thing is clear, either a few judges are going to have to change their tune, or the FAQ is going to have to. Don't especially care which, except the concept of "lingering" friendly status across different mind control actions is a possible ruling can of worms (think team abilities). But there isn't any room for compromise on the differences between the FAQ wording and judges comments.

[Psylockeslover]

webhead: thats pretty much what I have been saying all along, and was told by heroclix that I was wrong based on a ruling (I assume by Chapeau) made in the judges forum.

[WarHULK]

I'll be happy with either ruling... I just want a clear, well written ruling that doesn't leave things up to question.

Btw, I still like my idea. I think it makes sense and it's not confusing. Sorry to bother peoples' "intrests" of "consistency". This is still a relitively new game after all, and this is a new mechanic... so I don't see why it shouldn't be the way I've said. *shrugs* whatever folks... let's just hope they make a very clear and official ruling soon. I love faq's that raise more questions then they answer heh

[Psylockeslover]

By consistancy, I mean that:
1. Either a figure is friendy, or it isn't. Not a grey- "well it kinda is and kinda isn't friendly right now"-area.
2. Either you can, or you cannot attack a friendly figure. Not a-"well, its friendly, but you can still attack him"-kind of thing.

Sorry people for my rants here. I have a tendancy to be rather 'rules-lawyer-ish', but that is because I've lost games (not in HC, but in other areas) because of rules grey areas.

[webhead817]

Ah, I re-read (and re-read) heroclix123's posts on the matter, and understand the confusion. There was some discussion about this prior to the faq, and the faq doesn't jive with the discussion. Anyway, like I said, until something new is said, I'd go by the faq.

[Heroclix1234]

OK...we have a final answer on this.

Per Chapeau...the two MCed characters are never friendly to one another during the duration of that MC.

So it will be played as many of you read it in the FAQ. Which means you can disregard my previous comments which were based on our understanding of the power in the judges forum.

[Marshal Law]

Originally posted by Heroclix1234
OK...we have a final answer on this.

Thanks for the followup, much obliged to you.

[shin-goji]

Since HC is one system governed by on eset of rules, why are they bothering to print DC and Marvel FAQs seperate from each other. Why don't they do like the PAC and print one FAQ that applies to both genres. This would be especially helpful once Indyclix comes out, and it woul dbe relevant now that more and more powers are crossing over.