A New Age Dawns

[WizKidsNECA]

<img src="http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Batman-236x300.jpg" width="200px" align="left" style="padding-right:5px">Spring time, spring time! I got to enjoy the transition weeks with my cozy denim jacket and now, I can enjoy short sleeves and no jackets. My wife and I can take long walks around or neighborhood. And my inbox gets half a dozen emails a day wondering when we will announce the changes to the Modern Age environment.

Well, today is the day. The new Modern Age formats take effect 5/15/2011. You can jump to the end of the article for links to the new Comprehensive Tournament Rules, if you are so inclined. That document lists the sets that remain in Modern Age on page 5. If a figure has a set symbol from one of those sets, it’s Modern. All other figures from all other sets are classified as Golden Age. [...]

[Read More on WizKidsGames.com (http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2011/04/30/a-new-age-dawns/)]

[Surfer13]

Less than I thought.

I thought that all of the pre-NECA stuff would be going, but instead it is just Avengers, M&M, JL, and Crisis.

Even if losing the other stuff would have caused a slight dip in the modern age population initially, with Street Fighter and all of the other stuff upcoming, I think thatthe numbers would have come back relatively quickly.

Glad to see that those old keywords were looked at, though. I haven't looked over the changes, but just the examples listed indicate an improvement.

[mrmarvel86]

I was not expecting 4 sets to go. I thought it would just be Avengers and Justice League

[Rurouni KJS]

I was hoping it'd only be AV and JL, but I expected that it'd go up to Crisis. Only two Legion of Super-Heroes figures left in Modern Age now. :( Sure hope fall's Superman set rectifies this.

[realdarkphoenix]

Bah I'm not pleased with M&M getting axed

[theavengerthor]

How is it they took the time to alter the keyword list but they didn't change Ultimates Phoenix? She is the most horrendously keyworded figure in the game.

[kirbunkle]

*Sniff* Not.... Darkseid!...

[lancelot]

I've never liked retirement and this block of retirement doesn't please me too much.

Those early Modern Age sets were my favorites.

[Clixjunkie]

*Sniff* Not.... Darkseid!...


No worries, there should be one in the Superman set coming out.


I knew Wizkids was going to get rid of 4 sets in the Modern Age environment. It's how they have done it in the past.

Bites that I cannot use Cheif in Modern age anymore though. The Ultimate support piece.

[realdarkphoenix]

I really feel all carded sets should not be retired until some new mechanic is introduced.

[Honorable1]

I was not expecting 4 sets to go. I thought it would just be Avengers and Justice League

They have always retired at least 3 sets at a time.

[brevard321]

I still would have liked to see everything pre-Hammer of Thor retired, or no retirement at all.

I think there is such a difference in dial mentality between Secret Invasion/Arkham Asylum and HOT/WOS/DC75 that it would have made sense to retire all that stuff before HOT.

And in addition that would have retired all the pre-NECA stuff as well.

I think this retirement falls short in logic, REGARDLESS of past precedent...

[Shatter006]

Its terrible, they need to change the criteria for which sets are considered to be retired or modern or golden age or whatever. I mean, tournament sets should be the past couple of recent sets, but if they insist on getting rid of certain sets, they should have just come up with a NEW ERA....why, change the modern era list, just make a new era which only includes the chosen sets. This change hurts too many team builds. A dirty ploy to make people buy new clix to fill the gaps. Sorry for the rage but, its at least half true.

[captainamerica1987]

At least I still got my Thing and Lightspeed for another year.

[Honorable1]

Retirement Rocks!

[PONX]

GREEN SCAR!!... 73 point BEAST NNNOOOOoooooo....

[theavengerthor]

Is it sad that I am already dreading next year when Hammer of Thor will be on the chopping block?

[Superclone]

M&M getting nixed just after we get GSX is really unfortunate. Losing characters like SR Emma, SR Storm, even though they have new ones, is too bad, but losing characters like Gambit who have no other representation makes me pout.

[Khatt]

Well Marvel Girl, you've had a great run. Gee, it's time to step up from the minors little man. You're gonna play in the big leagues now.

[sengirv]

Bah I'm not pleased with M&M getting axed

Same here. I guess I can kiss a lot of those x-men teams I've been able to make with GSX good-bye now that the key M&M clixs are retired.

[herojoe]

I'm gonna miss you, OotS Batman. T_T

[jbship628]

I wouldn't have minded having Secret Invasion roll out as well as Captain America would have been released in short order which would have replaced it in the numbers game. (Along with the Green Lantern movie stuff, Cap gravity feed, Thor 6-pack and Street Fighter)

Jason Blood is going to have to find somewhere else to change into Etrigan now the phone booth is gone.

[GRENDELX]

No more pogs in modern age alas Congo Bill I knew you well.

[Ouchmaker]

Every time this comes up, I'm happy that we don't enforce retirement at my venue.

But the keyword changes are nice, would have added Ultimates Phoenix in there. All she really needs in change Past to Future, and Hellfire Club to Excalibur.

[muttburger]

no more gambit and rampaging hulk... i think i am going to tear up

[Xuco]

Does everyone here play Modern Age exclusively or something? You'd think that these were banned always and forever. But you know, they aren't. That's why there is Golden Age :)

[WestCoastAvengers]

I will miss Oots Batman, Green Arrow, Merlyn, Bronze Tiger, Dr. Alchemy, Gypsy, Green Scar, Shatterstar, Brood, Rampaging Hulk, Iron FCD, Hood, Miek, Kid Flash, Green Arrow (CR), Karate Kid, Dawnstar, Nightwing, Mercury, Shang Chi, Scarlet Witch, Winter Soldier, and Special Objects + Bystanders.

[Chrismcnic]

Psycho Pirate and Bronze Tiger, I'll miss you on tourney versions of Team Best Friends Club. Kick back and enjoy retirement. :(

[tyroclix]

Two interesting things that stood out to me:

1) modern age is only Marvel and DC so if you don't like the idea of video games in your game just run modern age.

2) a concede gives your quitting opponent 0 victory points.

[tyroclix]

Does everyone here play Modern Age exclusively or something? You'd think that these were banned always and forever. But you know, they aren't. That's why there is Golden Age :)

Which is why I only run Golden Age games. I guess there are players who only play Modern so I offer them a hearty congratulations on more figures your opponents can't use.

Really, that's the only reason for Modern, right? I mean you could always choose to not use anything else.

[CuriousLurker]

Two interesting things that stood out to me:

1) modern age is only Marvel and DC so if you don't like the idea of video games in your game just run modern age.


Just noticed this too. Take that Street Fighter!

[Gentlegamer]

2) a concede gives your quitting opponent 0 victory points.So there's no "gg" in HeroClix.

[elfholme]

They should have retired one fewer DC set than the number of Marvel sets retiring. It's like WK doesn't realize that there are fewer DC sets out there, and fewer coming up in the known schedule. :P

[fastcat99]

No! Not MnM!! Argh!

[Batarang96]

I think they did a pretty good job.

[brevard321]

Two interesting things that stood out to me:

1) modern age is only Marvel and DC so if you don't like the idea of video games in your game just run modern age.

2) a concede gives your quitting opponent 0 victory points.

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.

There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

Hopefully we can see a change to that guide. :) :noid: :angry:

[Boozehound]

Thank you! This change to the keywords document is exactly what I've been asking for for years!

Though it is unfortunate that Rachel Summers Phoenix still doesn't have the Excalibur Keyword, I'm still glad other pieces got their keywords fixed.

[elfholme]

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.

There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

Hopefully we can see a change to that guide. :) :noid: :angry:

You would quit? Really? Wow.

I think there are plenty of reasons to make these sets fully rules-compatible, but not make them Modern Age legal. Making the rules work together allows venues to mix and match freely if they wish to. But not opening up the restrictive Modern Age format to them keeps the focus of Modern Age squarely on comic book characters.

If half the legal sets for Modern Age weren't comic book sets...well, I wouldn't quit, but I would never attend a Modern Age event. That would be too diluted thematically to be fun for me. YMMV.

[Whitelightning89]

I was hoping that they wouldn't make a retirement in the modern age personally i dont think there was a good reason for it because golden age had the color rings but wen avengers and justice league came out the game changed for the better less multiples of figs but still were able to build armies and have fodder. O well what can you do at least you can still play some of your fave figs for fun.

[trackerjay]

My only surprise is that Batman Alpha isn't retired. Otherwise this is what I was expecting.

[vampricyoda]

Hm. Kinda shocked about the whole "Other Licences aren't useful in Modern Age" that also puts Watchmen out.

[Gentlegamer]

Hm. Kinda shocked about the whole "Other Licences aren't useful in Modern Age" that also puts Watchmen out.List of Modern Age sets: The following HeroClix sets comprise the Modern Age. Any set symbols not included on this list are considered to be Golden Age: Avengers, Justice League, Mutations & Monsters, Crisis, Batman: Alpha, Secret Invasion, Arkham Asylum, Hammer of Thor, HeroClix Classics (all), The Brave and the Bold, Blackest Night, Watchmen, Web of Spider-Man, Brightest Day, Jonah Hex, DC 75th Anniversary, Giant-Size X-Men, and any Marvel or DC sets released after the publication of this document.

[Honorable1]

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.

There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

Hopefully we can see a change to that guide. :) :noid: :angry:

You would quit? Really? Wow.

I think there are plenty of reasons to make these sets fully rules-compatible, but not make them Modern Age legal. Making the rules work together allows venues to mix and match freely if they wish to. But not opening up the restrictive Modern Age format to them keeps the focus of Modern Age squarely on comic book characters.

If half the legal sets for Modern Age weren't comic book sets...well, I wouldn't quit, but I would never attend a Modern Age event. That would be too diluted thematically to be fun for me. YMMV.

Halo is a Marvel comic. Gears of War is a DC comic. Street Fighter is done by some indy company I don't know. I'm not sure if there has been any LotR comics.

I wouldn't see why Halo and GoW figs wouldn't be allowed in Modern Age since the are Marvel and DC.

[kirbunkle]

Which is why I only run Golden Age games. I guess there are players who only play Modern so I offer them a hearty congratulations on more figures your opponents can't use.

Really, that's the only reason for Modern, right? I mean you could always choose to not use anything else.

I only play modern, even at golden age events. My reasoning is because It's hard for me to build a team that I would end up loving, but I couldn't use it at an official modern age event. That and I don't wanna hang on to all those figures... I gotta recycle em out somehow.

It's kinda dumb for me to have that mentality, I realize, but that's just how I roll.

So if anyone wants my Crisis stuff... :D :D :D

[Silver Lantern]

Two interesting things that stood out to me:

1) modern age is only Marvel and DC so if you don't like the idea of video games in your game just run modern age.


Amen to that, I don't want other janky properties polluting my super"hero" clix...

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.

There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

Hopefully we can see a change to that guide. :) :noid: :angry:

None of those other properties have ever been included. For nearly a decade heroclix has been about comic book superheroes. Have you quit up to this point? There's a perfectly good reason to make them compatible and not make them modern age legal. You can play for fun with your friends at home or in none sanctioned events.

Halo is a Marvel comic. Gears of War is a DC comic. Street Fighter is done by some indy company I don't know. I'm not sure if there has been any LotR comics.

I wouldn't see why Halo and GoW figs wouldn't be allowed in Modern Age since the are Marvel and DC.

They are not superhero comics, which is the spirit behind heroclix, at least for the last 9 or so years.

That's like saying that because Archie is a comic book, we should have Jughead heroclix...

NO, JUST NO...

Somethings are better left as they are.

[spacebear]

I'm a little bummed about M&M going because I just got into heroclix and was looking at getting a bunch of that sets figs to make teams with my new gsx figs... but I guess I just won't get to play those teams in Modern events, Oh well.

[spacebear]

That's like saying that because Archie is a comic book, we should have Jughead heroclix...


What powers would Jughead have?!!?! Now I kinda want to see some archie-clix!!

[vlad3theimpaler]

That's like saying that because Archie is a comic book, we should have Jughead heroclix...


Just wait til we get this (http://livingbetweenwednesdays.com/wp-content/uploads/image/Johnathan/Archie%20Sunday/archie%20v%20punisher/cover%200_psd.jpg)as a duo figure.

[spacebear]

Just wait til we get this (http://livingbetweenwednesdays.com/wp-content/uploads/image/Johnathan/Archie%20Sunday/archie%20v%20punisher/cover%200_psd.jpg)as a duo figure.

Oh, and a Betty / Veronica duo with outwit, perplex and mind control!

[theavengerthor]

We play mostly Modern Age games (at the venue's request), but when I was telling the owner of our venue about the impending retirement the other day, he was a bit upset that he would have so few Modern Age sets available for sale. And now with Wizkids limiting Modern Age by restricting it to Marvel/DC only, I could see us switching to more of a 50/50 Modern/Golden split. Which would make a few of my players quite happy.

[KO Bossy]

I think having a Jughead in clix would be pretty cool!

[ultronMFer]

I'm not quitting the game over this, but I will be dramatically scaling back on my WK/NECA purchases from here on out. There is no valid reason for retirement at this point. NONE.

Except of course, using it as a way to try to make us buy more stuff. But they wouldn't be that transparent, would they?

...

Would they???

[vlad3theimpaler]

I'm not quitting the game over this, but I will be dramatically scaling back on my WK/NECA purchases from here on out. There is no valid reason for retirement at this point. NONE.

Except of course, using it as a way to try to make us buy more stuff. But they wouldn't be that transparent, would they?

...

Would they???

Yes, there is. The same reason every other collectible gaming company uses retirement. It limits the number of mechanic interactions. For example, just look at competitive Nightcrawler teams. Without the benefit of special objects like the kinetic accelerator and the shield disruptor, the killbox teams will be less effective.

That said, I personally prefer unrestricted games, but I think it's silly to say there is no valid reason for retirement.

[traitorarmor]

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.
There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

Hopefully we can see a change to that guide. :) :noid: :angry:

So noted and quoted for later use.


--------------------------------------------------

Wait we are loosing CR Hal? :noid: Nooooooooo!

That is totally going to throw of the delicate balance of Hal Jordans in heroclix! You will need to fix this ASAP, Wizkids. I would think that only 4 more Hals could possibly make up for this oversight. I will expect the first part of this appology in no more than a week. teal = the color of sarcasim


But I don't think I'm going to miss too many of those figures that are being cycled out (and we don't play Modern all the time to begin with).

I will proably miss these figs the most;

OoTS Bats(JL), not for his play style but for his keywords....when in doubt this Bats fits on most of the JL teams I would try to make when other versions wouldn't.

Karate Kid(CR) and Green Arrow(Conner/JL), I......I don't want to talk about it. :lipquiver: These two have been real troopers for me and on my Immortal Iron Fist mods...........I suppose with SF coming out I can look there. :cry:

Shang-Chi, you were awesome but I haven's feilded you lately. I think I'm good to see other dials now.

Other figures too like the Starro slaves and Green Scar..............but the ones up there the most.

But we play a good mix of Golden Age and Modern Age so it shouldn't be to big a deal. :shrug:

[csi]

I'm not quitting the game over this, but I will be dramatically scaling back on my WK/NECA purchases from here on out. There is no valid reason for retirement at this point. NONE.

Except of course, using it as a way to try to make us buy more stuff. But they wouldn't be that transparent, would they?

...

Would they???

thats kind of the point isn't it? And surprisingly your Non Modern Age stuff isn't going to suddenly burst into flames :p You can still use them in friendly games, and even in Golden Age Tournaments.

Every time this comes up, I'm happy that we don't enforce retirement at my venue.

But the keyword changes are nice, would have added Ultimates Phoenix in there. All she really needs in change Past to Future, and Hellfire Club to Excalibur.

I was hoping that Fantomex would have gotten the X-Force Keyword. :cry:

[tchipley]

I've never liked retirement and this block of retirement doesn't please me too much.

Those early Modern Age sets were my favorites.

Agreed!

Pre Card and Post card was all the retirement we needed.

Now they are just messing with a good thing.

I hate they will be breaking up teams with this.

I call shenanigans.

[Honorable1]

Amen to that, I don't want other janky properties polluting my super"hero" clix...



None of those other properties have ever been included. For nearly a decade heroclix has been about comic book superheroes. Have you quit up to this point? There's a perfectly good reason to make them compatible and not make them modern age legal. You can play for fun with your friends at home or in none sanctioned events.



They are not superhero comics, which is the spirit behind heroclix, at least for the last 9 or so years.

That's like saying that because Archie is a comic book, we should have Jughead heroclix...

NO, JUST NO...

Somethings are better left as they are.

Master Chief is just as much a super hero as Captain America.
Both are genetically enhanced super soldiers.

[vlad3theimpaler]

Master Chief is just as much a super hero as Captain America.
Both are genetically enhanced super soldiers.

Super soldier=/= super hero.
World English Dictionary
superhero (ˈsuːpəˌhɪərəʊ) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n , pl -roes
any of various comic-strip characters with superhuman abilities or magical powers, wearing a distinctive costume, and fighting against evil
or
–noun, plural -roes.
a hero, especially in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers.
I'm not arguing that Master Chief shouldn't be allowed in Heroclix tournaments, but saying he fits the definition of a superhero as much as Captain America is kind of silly.

[Malakai]

We play mostly Modern Age games (at the venue's request), but when I was telling the owner of our venue about the impending retirement the other day, he was a bit upset that he would have so few Modern Age sets available for sale. And now with Wizkids limiting Modern Age by restricting it to Marvel/DC only, I could see us switching to more of a 50/50 Modern/Golden split. Which would make a few of my players quite happy.

i vote for the 50/50 split. Or perhaps Modern/Modern/Silver/Golden to fill out the month. Just an idea


man could they have had any more worse timing? M&M retiring right after GSX? Thats like teasing a kid with a trip to Disneyland and giving him ChuckyCheese instead. Your favorite X-man wasn't in GSX? *cough GAMBIT cough* toooo baaaaad

[spacebear]

I was hoping that Fantomex would have gotten the X-Force Keyword. :cry:

same here. le sigh

[TerminusV2.0]

Agreed!

Pre Card and Post card was all the retirement we needed.

Now they are just messing with a good thing.

I hate they will be breaking up teams with this.

I call shenanigans.

EXACTLY.

Pre card = golden age

Card = Modern.

BOO F'N HISS, WIZKIDS. I HATE RETIREMENT! Next they're gonna start the reprinting crap again...

[afinley2429]

i am a judge come to my venues as a judge i have the power to choose what is played and at my venue Tournament legal means Justice League/Avengers and up

[ccs]

It's too bad so many of you suffer from the mentality that your stuff has just become useless.

There's nothing requiring you to play only Modern Age games.

[brevard321]

See, retirement isn't the problem. I understand all that, and the reason for Modern Age.

But making BRAND new stuff, like Street Fighter or Lord of the Rings, and making it 100% compatible, and then UNDERMINING the whole thing by saying they aren't Modern Age legal???

If this is a mistake, I understand that mistakes happen, and it needs to be fixed.

If this is the intent, then there is absolutely no logic left in the execution and practice of the Heroclix game.

Why would the intellectual property owners of Street Fighter, Halo, etc., even allow that to happen?

Also, this means if they made a new Hellboy Fast Forces pack (for instance), then that would also be Modern Age ineligible, since it's not Marvel or DC? Really?

I am absolutely floored at the thought of this, if it's not a mistake.

Heroclix is NOT a superheroes/comic book game.

Heroclix is a collectable miniatures tabletop strategy game which features superheroes from comic books, and is soon to feature video game characters and movie characters (and already does so with Watchmen, Jonah Hex, and the new Green Lantern set) as well.

We'll see what happens, but as of now, I am not happy. And I know it doesn't matter all that much in the big scheme of things, but to UNDERMINE legitimate new and exciting Heroclix product seems like such a waste.... :(

[Perplexinator]

My purchases have steadily decreased over the past few months. The rotation of a good portion of my collection is only another sign that I need to take a break from the game.

And before anyone asks, yes, Modern Age is the customary format for my area, where at least 80% of the events are held under it.

[TerminusV2.0]

It's too bad so many of you suffer from the mentality that your stuff has just become useless.

There's nothing requiring you to play only Modern Age games.

Unless the judge at the only venue you can play at always chooses modern age. Not everyone is blessed with multiple venues to play at like I am. Some have one choice.

[bam]

NOOOOO!!!!! M and M should stay active!!!!

As much as I am a Superman Fan, I can understand people wanting to retire crisis Supermen Chases having used KC Supes in a single tourney. Crisis also had the spectre, the awesome black adam, worlds finest, and other greats that I am also sad to see go.

Honestly we had another 2 years before M and M needed retirement.... the X-men are all about the funky team members... we could barely run the blue/gold teams right With M and M. Now what?

Not to mention all the bystander pogs are all gone. the vine and accelerator as well as other critical game aides are also gone. :(

At the 2012 worlds I would like to see two separate champions; one for modern and another for modern age. that way someone's collection can be a factor (for those that want it to be) or not (if they don't.)

[TheUnstoppable]

all this shows me every time they do this is how lazy they are since in the long run this is about money, we are going to retire these sets so that you will have to buy from only these newer ones.

true this did not effect me so much earlier because i went on hiatus from clix because i went from being a student with some funds to a student with NO funds lol. though i thought it was a douche bag move then and i still think its a douche bag now(apologize for my bad language).

to me it shows laziness because if you don't want me to play these older figures and want me to play newer ones. GET ME EXCITED ABOUT THEM. there's a reason no one plays an old magneto or hulk or heh cable (sorry just remembering the review recently done on him. The figures will retire themselves when no one will play them anymore because they get the tar kicked out of them. truly the figure i will miss and again D-bag move FOR RETIRING HIM SINCE YOU REMADE HIM BUT AT DOUBLE THE POINTS!!! apocalypse heh. i am gonna miss throwing down with my apocalypse, and i finally got to play proteus for the first time....and my e-2 supes. not to mention you just got a first class Angel to play with your team but OH WAIT yeah those other four....sorry can't use them anymore.

well i guess thats all i can say the other things don't really effect me.

so to the keywords and such i will have themes in my head, video games vs heroes will always be on my console, but retirement....lazy D-BAG MOVE!!!!!

ok im done.

[hanzoslash]

Your favorite X-man wasn't in GSX? *cough GAMBIT cough* toooo baaaaad

But Gambit is in the set. I got the duo to prove it.

I do wonder if it was an oversight to exclude SF, Halo, and Gears of War from Modern age. Maybe they have a better format they will announce later? Like Super Duper Mega Crossover Infinity Crisis Annihilation Brightest Gears of Halo Fighter format?

I intentionally left out LoTR. Have to draw the line somewhere. Its my line, I get to draw it where ever I want.

[Dragon_Rose]

Nooooo! I lost my Gambit... Sad Panda:(

[WhoaDirty]

I'm not quitting the game over this, but I will be dramatically scaling back on my WK/NECA purchases from here on out. There is no valid reason for retirement at this point. NONE.

Except of course, using it as a way to try to make us buy more stuff. But they wouldn't be that transparent, would they?

...

Would they???

Ummm, yes. This has been an aspect in the tourney scene of all the major collectible games. It's not the only aspect because there is also ...

Yes, there is. The same reason every other collectible gaming company uses retirement. It limits the number of mechanic interactions. For example, just look at competitive Nightcrawler teams. Without the benefit of special objects like the kinetic accelerator and the shield disruptor, the killbox teams will be less effective.

... this.

And also, you have to consider newer players coming into the game. Think of the effort it would take to build Massu's team with two AV Scarlett Witches on it. If a new player can't make a decently competitive team using the last few sets, it becomes a disincentive for them to stick around. And since the continuance of the games relies on growth ...

Unless the judge at the only venue you can play at always chooses modern age. Not everyone is blessed with multiple venues to play at like I am. Some have one choice.

So play Golden Age games at home. Or with the people at the venue before/after the tourney.

The whole Modern Age and Golden Age distinction comes out of tournament rules, there is no one forcing you to only play in tournaments.

And something else to ponder (from another thread):
It's been confirmed that this was intentional. They seem to be reiterating the "judges can run whatever events they want; these rules are only mandatory at WizKids' con events" line.

[tchipley]

Well I'm pretty much going to ignore this one.
At my venue it will stay:
Cards=Modern
No Cards=Golden
Winner picks the format.

Don't care about GenCon, Origins, Nationals or Worlds etc etc blah blah blah.

Folks paid way too much money to all the sudden be limited by retirement.

If the worlds folks want to make it the "all that" that it wants then it should only set those standards for those tournaments and leave the rest of us alone.

Organized Play is fine without Big Brother stepping in with retirement.

Focus you energies on making pieces and making sure the rules are kept up to date.

I vote "NO" to retirement.


Edit: I was offered a 4 day pass to GenCon and I declined. Reason: Zero Interest.

Phooey.

[vlad3theimpaler]

Well I'm pretty much going to ignore this one.
At my venue it will stay:
Cards=Modern
No Cards=Golden
Winner picks the format.

Don't care about GenCon, Origins, Nationals or Worlds etc etc blah blah blah.

Folks paid way too much money to all the sudden be limited by retirement.

If the worlds folks want to make it the "all that" that it wants then it should only set those standards for those tournaments and leave the rest of us alone.

Organized Play is fine without Big Brother stepping in with retirement.

Focus you energies on making pieces and making sure the rules are kept up to date.

I vote "NO" to retirement.


Edit: I was offered a 4 day pass to GenCon and I declined. Reason: Zero Interest.

Phooey.
Why would they be "all the sudden limited by retirement?" The Modern Age/golden age distinction already existed, it was just updated as to what sets were which.

[spider_ham]

Ultimately, the dilemma most players face is threefold:

1) Can I afford to play?
2) Do I have have time to play?
3) Can I afford to keep playing?

1) Can I afford to play?

Retirement forces players to directly support WK/NECA by purchasing new product, and makes the game more affordable by limiting the number of legal figures to a finite and/or reasonable number. It's a given that having a disposal income is a requirement to play. However, it is not mandatory to own the entire catalog of figures to build competitive teams. You can thank inflation and production for the increased cost of boosters, but can't fault WK/NECA directly.

Veteran players will be concerned about their depreciating assets, namely retired figures. The solution was Golden Age and Print and Play. The secondary market may encourage interest in the game, but it does not directly support the product. Luckily, the majority of older Uniques/SRs maintain a good deal of their value for a collector to recoup some of their investment. The revamping of the REVU system makes sense in this context, and reduces production overhead on future sets by producing smaller sets.

2) Do I have have time to play?

Most players are saddled with the responsibilities of family and work, thus limiting their game time to once or twice a week. Overexposure quickly causes interest the game to wane, and it's often good to take a break from any repetitive activity. A forum like HCRealms is a great place to be active in the HC community while being a passive gamer, if your schedule would not allow an actual game.

3) Can I afford to keep playing?

Ultimately, the cycle completes, and a player must purchase new product. If the game is no longer a point of interest or not affordable, the player's involvement ceases.

I'm curious to see how decreasing set count and increasing the number of properties (SF, LotR, GoW) will ultimately turn out, as more will be spent in advertising and licensing.

[Zatara55]

Now I can't play the new Storm with the Avengers' Black Panther.

[Quebbster]

Now I can't play the new Storm with the Avengers' Black Panther.
Sure you can. No one's going to smash your Avengers figures with a hammer.
Also, we're getting a new BP this summer. :)

[vlad3theimpaler]

Now I can't play the new Storm with the Avengers' Black Panther.

You can in a Golden Age game.

[Danzig01]

This may be stating the obvious, but from what I've been reading here, is that what is needed/wanted by some is equal weight and support for both Modern Age and Golden Age formats across the board (both at local venues and at sanctioned tourneys).

Maybe a different term other than retirement should also be considered? Just sayin....

[Ouchmaker]

I was hoping that Fantomex would have gotten the X-Force Keyword. :cry:

I'm not, because this makes it more possible that that a new Fantomex with EVA trait (or vehicle), special powers and the X-Force keyword is coming.

It's not like WK doesn't remake characters, just look at Avalanche and Toad, they were both.... nevermind.

Avalanche as a transporter in the 2012 Hulk set, that is my prediction.

[Oldguynewbie]

there still isn't an Angel/Archangel with the Champions keyword. I call that a miss.

[Dragon_Rose]

With the new retirement I would;d now like a mini x-men set w/ gambit, and a few of the other biggies that weren't made.

But if the set only contained various versions of Gambit I would be happy:)

[MysticMist]

damn...i jus bought 5 cuckoos n marvel girls...................................i am sad

[Glen Quagmire]

Well I'm pretty much going to ignore this one.
At my venue it will stay:
Cards=Modern
No Cards=Golden
Winner picks the format.

Don't care about GenCon, Origins, Nationals or Worlds etc etc blah blah blah.

Folks paid way too much money to all the sudden be limited by retirement.

If the worlds folks want to make it the "all that" that it wants then it should only set those standards for those tournaments and leave the rest of us alone.

Organized Play is fine without Big Brother stepping in with retirement.

Focus you energies on making pieces and making sure the rules are kept up to date.

I vote "NO" to retirement.


Edit: I was offered a 4 day pass to GenCon and I declined. Reason: Zero Interest.

Phooey.

Well, there's a number of golden age tournaments being offered at GenCon. It could have some impact if WK folks are told face-to-face they'd have had less attendance if those weren't offered.

[robedestroyer]

Also, we're getting a new BP this summer. :)

What's wrong with the BudPalmer we already have?

[reklawyad]

I just got back into heroclix and most of the tourneys around here are mainly modern age, so the retirement hurts me a little more than others I think. Honestly I'd be okay with them just getting rid of feats all together or making a third format called silver age that is golden age but no feats or BFC. Just my two cents about the retirement. I new it would come eventually but four sets seems a little steep to me as well.

Not everyone agrees with me I understand that some folks do like retirement but I do not.

[tchipley]

Why would they be "all the sudden limited by retirement?" The Modern Age/golden age distinction already existed, it was just updated as to what sets were which.

There just was no need to move the carded sets into the golden age.

This move isn't necessary to get folks to buy new product. They are selling out of each set as produced. They are following a model that worked for a different company (Wizards of the Coast) and it is unnecessary.

Folks buy and play the new hotness and then to move away from the older sets on their own. The only times I've seen them in play is when the player wants to complete a team or a specific scenario calls for it.

[tchipley]

Well, there's a number of golden age tournaments being offered at GenCon. It could have some impact if WK folks are told face-to-face they'd have had less attendance if those weren't offered.

Those offerings are fine. No beef with that.

There just was no need to move the carded sets into the golden age.

I was under the impression they wanted to keep this simple.

Cards=Modern Age
No Cards=Golden Age

So on top of yearly rules updates and any player guide update/errata, folks also have to deal with set legality? That is an unnecessary burden.

This move isn't necessary to get folks to buy new product. They are selling out of each set as produced. They are following a model that worked for a different company (Wizards of the Coast) and it is unnecessary.

Folks buy and play the new hotness and then to move away from the older sets on their own. The only times I've seen them in play is when the player wants to complete a team or a specific scenario calls for it.

Players want to get their money's worth out of the new sets they are already buying and don't need to be policed. They are self policing and the set designs of exciting new figures can encourage that.

I would hate to tell a new player that is excited about the game that they cannot purchase a particular figure because we generally play the new format and it would be "illegal." Also my venue wouldn't be happy about a potential sale being taken away because of this artificial mechanism.

[Puuka]

Bah I'm not pleased with M&M getting axed

Yeah, no more Jean Grey to TK in Violet and Yellow lanterns for Prof X. :(


I know, everyone else is upset by this too :p

[silversurfr77]

The venue I play at tends to have a pretty even mix of Modern and Goldan age. I really can't see retirement as being a major problem for anyone. Unless you have a die-hard, "My way or the Highway kind of Judge", then I can maybe see how it may pose a problem if you are a fan of one style or the other.

The way we play is really based on scenario style gameplay. Like last week, we played Golden age, but we had to build a force consisting of at least one giant, that had the giant symbol on his base. A guy like High Evolutionary who becomes giant size later did not count. Keeping it unrestriced in that sense makes Golden age style worthwhile because not only can you choose from whomever you have, but you still need to build a team that works around your Giant. (That is just one example of course.) I say if retirement is an issue for many players, then play it to your liking. Just plan and prepare accordingly if you intend on attending an officially sponsored event, which hopefully I will be able to next year. :)

But IMO, retirement is no different that restricting a game based on build total. A restriction is a restriciton is a restriction no matter how you slice it. A 200 point build total elminates so many figures that cost more than 200 points, and there are a lot. :)

[Glen Quagmire]

Those offerings are fine. No beef with that.

There just was no need to move the carded sets into the golden age.

I was under the impression they wanted to keep this simple.

Cards=Modern Age
No Cards=Golden Age

That was never the case, as LSH was placed in Golden Age one year ago.




So on top of yearly rules updates and any player guide update/errata, folks also have to deal with set legality? That is an unnecessary burden.


AKA, status quo since Universe came out.




I would hate to tell a new player that is excited about the game that they cannot purchase a particular figure because we generally play the new format and it would be "illegal." Also my venue wouldn't be happy about a potential sale being taken away because of this artificial mechanism.

And you don't have to. As you said, you're using the freedom WK has given judges/venues to decide their own tournament structure by opting not to use the WK's modern age format.

[Tim Drake]

I've been expecting this announcement for quite a while. I'm not a fan of the retirement paradigm, but it's one of the ways WizKids keeps making money, so I understand it. In any event, losing these 4 sets brings us up to where we would be if they'd maintained the original retirement schedule.

That being said, the shift comes two months before the next full set comes out, at a time when the last two sets are completely sold out. The timing just kind of sucks.

At our venue, the other judge and I have decided that we'll be "defaulting" to a "Silver Age" format at least until Superman comes out. Too many gaps in popular teams to do otherwise. In any case, I'm more of a fan of a Silver Age environment than anything else, because I like to play comic accurate teams whenever possible and it's hard to do as it is limited to the current Modern Age sets.

[lensnart]

I like the not so subtle New Gods hint at the end. Expect them to show up in the Superman set.

Also we will continue to ignore retirement as we always have, so this makes no difference to me but it does seem a bit excessive.

[macewyndu]

The way i see it, the only people who should be concern is:

1. People who play in wizkids sanction tournaments
2. People who play at modern age only venue.

Other than that, i am glad that most venues i play at use Golden age or Silver age rules. So this retirement does it really effect me all that much. Unless we play an modern age game (which is like once or twice per month).

[RSIxidor]

If every year is going to have the amount of releases as this one, this might be a good idea.

Also, does anyone else see the three marvel sets next year looking a whole lot like NECA trying out a 'block' system similar to MTG?

[cteshwayo]

Meh, I'll miss my Liberty Belle and all the others, but when a collectible game has a serious competitive environment, then retirement is a necessity. Otherwise, a few power figs from older sets would dominate the tournament scene, prices would go up, and competitive play would be bared from anyone who can't drop a few hundred bucks on figs.

Changes in dial design philosophy make this problem less pronounced in Heroclix than in, say, MTG (Looking at you, Power Nine!), but it would still be a problem. For instance, suppose that pieces like Magog, and Icons Supes had a) aged more gracefully, so they were still as potent against newer pieces as they were in their heyday, and b) were still tournament legal. Then in order to maintain competitiveness, you would very likely NEED to have those power pieces. And since every player who wants to be competitive NEEDS those pieces in order to be so, prices would go up. We could very well be looking at pieces more expensive than E-2 Supes, and if you can't afford them, you have no business playing Heroclix at the competitive level.

Point is, yes, it's sad to see your favorite pieces go, and I'm sorry if anyone's venue would prevent them from playing those favorite pieces by adhering strictly to Modern Age rules. But if Wizkids/NECA want to run a game with a competitive format, and wants new players to be able to compete in said format without investing hundreds of dollars on some old power piece that Wizkids isn't even getting any money for anyways, then retirement (or as I prefer, the MTG term "rotating out") of sets is a necessity.

[CaptainAmeribrad]

Sorry for the rage but, its at least half true.

Well, as long as it's half true!:knockedou

[darkobiwan]

Scanning over the topic, I see a few references to MTG. Magic has a few different sanctioned formats. Standard being the most played, includes only cards from the current 2 years of release. Every October, Standard rotates. This keeps Wizards in business because we all have to buy new cards to remain competitive. But for a non-tournament player, this really means nothing but new cards. I play competitive, so I keep up with rotations etc. But the kitchen table player at home who owns cards from the last 15yrs could easily ignore the new sets and keep playing his house ruled games. I liken this to the retirement arguments I'm reading here.
If you want to remain competitive in Wizkids sanctioned events, then you're gonna have to keep up with retirement. If your venue makes up scenarios and doesn't really bother with Wizkids sanctioning.. then this does not effect you.
I'm fairly new to Clix, does Wizkids even sanction anything that's not Worlds level? There is no "Friday Night Magic" for Clix is there? I'm trying to avoid getting too competitive in Clix. I play it for fun. Playing competitive Magic is enough of a strain, I gotta have a "fun" game.

[Glen Quagmire]

I'm fairly new to Clix, does Wizkids even sanction anything that's not Worlds level? There is no "Friday Night Magic" for Clix is there? I'm trying to avoid getting too competitive in Clix. I play it for fun. Playing competitive Magic is enough of a strain, I gotta have a "fun" game.

IIRC, there have been no WK-sanctioned local events since NECA took over. Prior to WK being put up for sale, local tournaments for each release were sanctioned with formats that included 2-4 sealed events, a couple of Modern Age events (referred to as restricted back then), and a couple of "floor" events which required half of your build to be of the latest set; other half still had to be restricted. This often only left time for one tournament for a judge to decide his own build/scenario before the next set was out and the cycle started all over again. IIRC, I bought the LSH starter, but I had to wait through Avengers, Justice League and almost a month into Monsters and Mutations before I could play them in a tournament.

NECA scrapped all of that, though. Seems like a pretty hands-off approach they have, yet people are responding to this retirement like we're still back in the days of nothing but sealed and forced.

[Quebbster]

What's wrong with the BudPalmer we already have?
We can rebuild him. We have the technology. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.

[The Arachnid]

Crap. I really wasnt expecting M&M and Crisis. Ugh. Well, it was bound to happen I suppose.

[2 Gun Kid]

http://replay.web.archive.org/20050301083131/http://www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/marvel/gameresources.asp?cid=39357

[aqhoffman]

Its a bummer that some excellent pieces are now retired from Modern Age, but it was going to happen sooner or later anyway. Heck, I am bummed that the LoSH figs were retired awhile ago. But its obvious that Golden Age is still a big part of the official game and its great to see the fan/player created "Silver Age" format being used more and more. In the long run, I foresee Silver Age being the default setting for most venues and even tournies, except for the uber competitive "national" level events.

I've always felt that there are two vastly different heroclix games out there- the way 90% of venues play it with people making comic book theme teams or just goofy fun/ favorite characters/ creative, etc teams, and then the "gotta win or its not a fun game" Modern Age rules format with WoS Nightcrawler, 2 Scarlet Witches, etc. There are tournies supporting both styles.

Have to agree with several previous comments though- the whole idea of retiring sets being a necessity for the company to sell new product is utter BS. We all know it. Offer a good product that people want at the price you make it, and it will sell. Not once, in selling hundreds of boosters of the last few sets have I ever heard people say "yeah, I gotta buy this DC 75th for the cool new JSA figs because Origins is retired" or anything remotely like that. Its a paradigm from a few other games that has no statistical basis in clix. Powercreep and offering the new hotness, heck yeah, that keeps people from sitting on old figures, but retirement isn't needed.

On the flipside, c'mon, who doesn't want to see the Shield disruptor eliminated from the Nightcrawler strategy!?

[spider_ham]

...

Changes in dial design philosophy make this problem less pronounced in Heroclix than in, say, MTG (Looking at you, Power Nine!), but it would still be a problem. For instance, suppose that pieces like Magog, and Icons Supes had a) aged more gracefully, so they were still as potent against newer pieces as they were in their heyday, and b) were still tournament legal. Then in order to maintain competitiveness, you would very likely NEED to have those power pieces. And since every player who wants to be competitive NEEDS those pieces in order to be so, prices would go up. We could very well be looking at pieces more expensive than E-2 Supes, and if you can't afford them, you have no business playing Heroclix at the competitive level.

In a sense, much of this is still true, as Golden Age games can be just as competitive as Modern Age ones, and actually encourage the use of older power figures that were and still are difficult to obtain. Case in point: Critical Mass Galactus.

Thankfully, an investment of $100+ USD for a single HC figure still pales in comparison to MTG, where a piece of cardboard produced for under 50 cents fetches upwards of $5k USD (a mint Black Lotus is in the $10k+ range). That is ridiculous for a glorified piece of paper, but a c-note is nothing to scoff at, either.

[ganthet2814]

Well I am sad to see JLA set go. I am going to miss the Superman and other JLA heroes. DC is going to be hard to play now beyond a few figs here and there. It is also going to suck to see the Batman and Robin go. But still have the X-men.

[charlesdward]

Have to agree with several previous comments though- the whole idea of retiring sets being a necessity for the company to sell new product is utter BS. We all know it. Offer a good product that people want at the price you make it, and it will sell. Not once, in selling hundreds of boosters of the last few sets have I ever heard people say "yeah, I gotta buy this DC 75th for the cool new JSA figs because Origins is retired" or anything remotely like that. Its a paradigm from a few other games that has no statistical basis in clix. Powercreep and offering the new hotness, heck yeah, that keeps people from sitting on old figures, but retirement isn't needed.


I can only speak from my own experience, but this rings completely true.
Case in point: my venue plays all Golden Age unless otherwise specified, and any games outside the venue are always Golden Age. We play older figures in combination with new figures ALL THE TIME. And guess what?
We all still buy new product.
I could care less about Modern age-only play, and I still buy new product not because I'm forced to, but because I want to.
But on the other hand, I do understand the other side, again from my own experience. Take Web of Spider-Man... once I saw that all the iconic Spidey villains were Super-rares, I decided I was totally fine with the non-SR versions I already had. But then again, if I was forced to not use those older versions, I just plain wouldn't bother playing those teams. :)

[Mr. Cranberry]

Does everyone here play Modern Age exclusively or something? You'd think that these were banned always and forever. But you know, they aren't. That's why there is Golden Age :)

It's more with the Worlds and such type events that this will play a factor in. But now folks can't use the M&M X-Men figs with GSX this year, so why play them at local venues when tweaking teams for nationals.


Also...check my sig for the real reason for retirement.

[tom730]

Fortunately this only REALLY matters at the big WK sponsored CONs. Local venues can still run games as they see fit, so not a huge deal really.
It is kind of funny though, for an old-timer like me who was thinking "Cool, now we've got all the original X-Men and can run them against a team of the original Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (minus Toad!)
Now in one fell swoop (or is it Swell Foop? I always get them confused!) we lose 4 or 5 original (First Class) X-Men plus Mastermind, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver!
But again, it only really matters at the national level since OP is now a very free, creative situation as opposed to the old, onerous, "do it like this" policy we dealt with prior to the hiatus!

[ganthet2814]

I do have to ask what was in these sets that made them want to drop them?
Was there a lot of broken figs? Was it to get rid of most of the Feat cards? What was the reason?

[Beck]

I do have to ask what was in these sets that made them want to drop them?
Was there a lot of broken figs? Was it to get rid of most of the Feat cards? What was the reason?

I think the sets had more to do with how long they have been available.

The rotation of these sets rotates out all forms of modern age 'pog' special objects and bystanders.

If you look into it hard enough, you'll see how much impact and warping that objects like Shield Disruptor, Kinetic Accelerator, Tombstone had on the metagame.

Also, with no Bystanders, there's going to be a lot of teams rounding out at low 290's

Aside from the pog rotation, the biggest thing I can think of, figure wise, that gets rotated out of the format is Scarlet Witch

[Dr. Briefcase]

Just went through most of the keywords. Not much changed really, just cleaned up some strange keywords (e.g. Serpent Squad) and non-matching keywords (e.g. IC vs Universe).

However, we still have "Sinister Society"; population 1, exp Green Goblin of Fantastic Forces. :confused:

[Rurouni KJS]

man could they have had any more worse timing? M&M retiring right after GSX?WAY worse. Crisis is about to be gone, leaving just TWO characters available for what should be a Legion of Super-Heroes. And the next set that might have some replacements is over half a year away.

What's wrong with the BudPalmer we already have?Well, for one thing, he stopped celebrating Tuesdays. A little thing, but it was appreciated.

That being said, the shift comes two months before the next full set comes out, at a time when the last two sets are completely sold out. The timing just kind of sucks.
QFT, for real. I was expecting to get a couple more months out of all these pieces, not a couple of weeks.

On the flipside, c'mon, who doesn't want to see the Shield disruptor eliminated from the Nightcrawler strategy!?This, by itself, was worth me losing both the Opened Hydrant AND Tempest for my Atlantis-themed teams.

[JOwenR2]

How is it they took the time to alter the keyword list but they didn't change Ultimates Phoenix? She is the most horrendously keyworded figure in the game.

Seriously! That's the first one I checked.

Silver lining may be now the Chase Supermen will drop in price 'cause they are no longer tournament legal... but not likely :(

[cteshwayo]

However, we still have "Sinister Society"; population 1, exp Green Goblin of Fantastic Forces. :confused:

Or CD Vet Red Tornado, the only "Primal Force" character.

I do have to ask what was in these sets that made them want to drop them?
Was there a lot of broken figs? Was it to get rid of most of the Feat cards? What was the reason?

Also, relating to what I said earlier on, it keeps the Modern Age format fresh. When sets don't rotate out, the power pieces stay on top. I've heard a lot of people complain about people playing against Nightcrawler on the Realms; how would you feel if five years down the line you still had to deal with Nightcrawler, only with better support from newer pieces in recent sets? No. if you're going to have a "main" or "default" format, you have to change out the pieces, or the metagame becomes stagnant.

All that being said, Heroclix has always had a more casual feel to it than other collectible games which shall go unmentioned. It's the game where you can make that comic-accurate Outlaws team, or a martians team, or something fun and wacky with characters we all love, and have a blast even if you lose. If Heroclix were to become uber-competitive at even the local level of play, it would be a much worse game for it.

[hanzoslash]

Did anyone notice that as soon as they gave us a First Class Angel they turn around and retire the rest of the team?

jip

[SLVRSR4]

It's probably already been addressed or questioned, but is the Fantastic Four starter considered modern or golden. I know they used to retire starter sets when new ones came out, but since it's only listed as modern/golden now, I was curious. Also, Secret Invasion is still going to be legal and it is listed as being part of that set and not it's own entity. Am I just talking out my behindus?

I just remembered that they are all in classics packs, so they are not retired anyway. thanks for looking anyways! (Except Doom bots, so I guess my question is for their benefit!)

[captainamerica1987]

It's probably already been addressed or questioned, but is the Fantastic Four starter considered modern or golden. I know they used to retire starter sets when new ones came out, but since it's only listed as modern/golden now, I was curious. Also, Secret Invasion is still going to be legal and it is listed as being part of that set and not it's own entity. Am I just talking out my behindus?

I just remembered that they are all in classics packs, so they are not retired anyway. thanks for looking anyways! (Except Doom bots, so I guess my question is for their benefit!)


I would have cried if Thing was retired.

Next year is going to be a sad time for me.

[GroovyBoy]

I jested on the other thread, but I would HOPE this is just an oversight.

If they make LOTR, Street Fighter, Gears of War, and Halo, and they are not Modern Age eligible, I would quit. Period.

There is NO reason to make them compatible if they are not tournament legal.

No reason, huh? Like letting people play whatever they want at home without having to use a slide rule and a conversion chart?

And they will be tournament legal, just not Modern Age.

I home you're a man of your word instead of another empty threatener on the Intrawebs.. Thanks for the memories. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

[GroovyBoy]

Sky falling. News at 11...

[WestCoastAvengers]

The venue I go to almost always runs Modern. So retirement means not being able to use those figures most of the time since home games have been difficult to arrange. We did have a Golden Age event but additional build rules prevented any figure w/out a TA from being used.

[AngrySalad]

I enjoy that OotS Bats is the poster child for retirement.

[dairoka]

I really feel all carded sets should not be retired until some new mechanic is introduced.

I agree. I was really hoping that they would do away with retirement. There is nothing I can think of in those four sets that's any more/less broken than anything that's come out in the last year.

[Beck]

I enjoy that OotS Bats is the poster child for retirement.

I have never had to go up against OOTS, I've never seen him fielded. But I have seen soo many people griping about him; on the boards and otherwise.

He seemed like the red herring of Modern Age to me. Scarlet Witch was probably the most significant figure to get hit by retirement.

[Beck]

I agree. I was really hoping that they would do away with retirement. There is nothing I can think of in those four sets that's any more/less broken than anything that's come out in the last year.

in those 4 sets:

you have an object that can add up to a +6 on your movement.
another object ignores damage reducers
another object can heal you up to 2 clicks
a heavy object that acts as a miniature Protected
another heavy object that they had to errata (structural integrity field)

all of which cost ZERO to your team total.

And with them gone, Nightcrawler teams get nerfed, balanced modern age gameplay can now resume.

[AngrySalad]

I have never had to go up against OOTS, I've never seen him fielded. But I have seen soo many people griping about him; on the boards and otherwise.

He seemed like the red herring of Modern Age to me. Scarlet Witch was probably the most significant figure to get hit by retirement.

You don't know what your missing. Try playing against someone who has 4 OotS Bats on his team for a 300 point game. It's a lot of fun :rolleyes:

[dairoka]

in those 4 sets:

you have an object that can add up to a +6 on your movement.
another object ignores damage reducers
another object can heal you up to 2 clicks
a heavy object that acts as a miniature Protected
another heavy object that they had to errata (structural integrity field)

all of which cost ZERO to your team total.

And with them gone, Nightcrawler teams get nerfed, balanced modern age gameplay can now resume.

Well, I was referring to characters only. Point taken on the Objects. I was never a fan of any of them except for Tombstone, which was, essentially, a one shot once you got hit/hit with it. I felt dirty even thinking of using any of the others.
I thought they should get rid of ALL special objects without a point cost, assign Point Costs, then release them as Print and Play.

[fersidhe]

At least I still got my Thing and Lightspeed for another year.

Thing possibly 2 years if Classic's stay legal longer... prolly not though.

[Beck]

Well, I was referring to characters only. Point taken on the Objects. I was never a fan of any of them except for Tombstone, which was, essentially, a one shot once you got hit/hit with it. I felt dirty even thinking of using any of the others.
I thought they should get rid of ALL special objects without a point cost, assign Point Costs, then release them as Print and Play.

Figures?

Well, in that case, Scarlet Witch. Taking her out hit numerous teams

and Out Of The Shadows Batman. If he ran rampant at your locals. I never saw him once.

Karate Kid and KC Chase Superman.

That's all I can think of. Figure wise, retirement barely did anything.

[The Arachnid]

Figures I will miss:

Scarlet Witch
FCBD Iron Man
Black Panther

Nightwing
Green Arrow (both)
Zatanna
and yes, OOTS Batman

Now if I can just convince some sucker to trade my M&M Emma Frost and Storm for the new ones.... ;)

Retirement is like getting a booster shot; Yeah it sucks, but we probably needed it.

[ganthet2814]

Figures?

Well, in that case, Scarlet Witch. Taking her out hit numerous teams

and Out Of The Shadows Batman. If he ran rampant at your locals. I never saw him once.

Karate Kid and KC Chase Superman.

That's all I can think of. Figure wise, retirement barely did anything.

You also forgot about all the other KC figs. The KC GL is a beast. Still don't think that the other stuff in those sets was that bad. If they wanted the cards and pogs gone just ban them.

[vlad3theimpaler]

You also forgot about all the other KC figs. The KC GL is a beast. Still don't think that the other stuff in those sets was that bad. If they wanted the cards and pogs gone just ban them.

:confused:The other KC figures were from Unleashed/Legacy, sets that haven't been in the unrestricted tournaments for years....

[squirecam]

Hello First class X-Men Angel.

Too bad your buddies are gone....

[Firelord Hero]

See, retirement isn't the problem. I understand all that, and the reason for Modern Age.

But making BRAND new stuff, like Street Fighter or Lord of the Rings, and making it 100% compatible, and then UNDERMINING the whole thing by saying they aren't Modern Age legal???

If this is a mistake, I understand that mistakes happen, and it needs to be fixed.

If this is the intent, then there is absolutely no logic left in the execution and practice of the Heroclix game.

Why would the intellectual property owners of Street Fighter, Halo, etc., even allow that to happen?

Also, this means if they made a new Hellboy Fast Forces pack (for instance), then that would also be Modern Age ineligible, since it's not Marvel or DC? Really?

I am absolutely floored at the thought of this, if it's not a mistake.

Heroclix is NOT a superheroes/comic book game.

Heroclix is a collectable miniatures tabletop strategy game which features superheroes from comic books, and is soon to feature video game characters and movie characters (and already does so with Watchmen, Jonah Hex, and the new Green Lantern set) as well.

We'll see what happens, but as of now, I am not happy. And I know it doesn't matter all that much in the big scheme of things, but to UNDERMINE legitimate new and exciting Heroclix product seems like such a waste.... :(

Most venues (generalization) use both Modern/Golden age formats, so this shouldn't be a huge issue with everyone.

I couldn't be more pleased with this. I hope this wasn't a typo or an oversight because Halo, GoW, SF and LOTR dont belong in the Modern Age. They can be played in Golden and thats just fine with me.

Modern age just got alot sexier.

[loganspeedo]

Retirement Rocks! (when you are 65, otherwise, it's crap)

There, I fixed it for you.

[flakbait]

I'm going to ignore all future retirement purely on the basis of laziness. Does it have a card? You can play it. Done.

[Beck]

You also forgot about all the other KC figs. The KC GL is a beast. Still don't think that the other stuff in those sets was that bad. If they wanted the cards and pogs gone just ban them.

I see where you went with this.

I was referring to the current retirement, not all encompassing what has been retired.

[Hellboy]

Sad to see more figures retired from Modern but nice to see that they tightened up the ruling and errata when they did it.

With smaller sets coming out more frequently and more options for themes with the various properties now flooding the scene: I have to say I like the looks of how they are managing the game from a rules perspective. From the Designers down to Norm & his deputies there seems to be a very serious effort to keep things moving steadily towards a stable gaming environment with lots of room for growth.

I hope this is just another sign of a bright future for the game.

[Mr. Cranberry]

I didn't see it mentioned, but are both Galactus & Starro still legal? I know in the past that the Colossals like them have had a stay of execution, so to speak. This would be an interesting bit of confirmation.

[brevard321]

Most venues (generalization) use both Modern/Golden age formats, so this shouldn't be a huge issue with everyone.

I couldn't be more pleased with this. I hope this wasn't a typo or an oversight because Halo, GoW, SF and LOTR dont belong in the Modern Age. They can be played in Golden and thats just fine with me.

Modern age just got alot sexier.

By sexier, you must mean more stupid.

All the new properties DO belong in Modern Age, the same as if they made a new Hellboy or TMNT set would belong in Modern Age.

It's like, let me run a Checkmate team with all these neat Checkmate soldiers or Easy Company soldiers, but yeah, no way should you run a Halo team with all those neat soldiers that just came out.

They're the exact same thing!

Deapool (a running joke) and Nextwave (I don't know what the heck they're supposed to be) are okay, but Street Fighter isn't?!? :tired:

[Darknesspwns]

man now i cant play sinestro bats with a bunch of Oots batmen... for some smoke cloud free action shenanigans....

here is hoping the supes set has a Sweet looking super playable batman with willpower/outwit/leapclimb/stealth/decent range and possibly multiple targets and would it be too much to ask for decent dial stats?

if human electra can have so many awesome powers for her low cost cant batman have them too?

[charlesdward]

Deapool (a running joke) and Nextwave (I don't know what the heck they're supposed to be) are okay, but Street Fighter isn't?!? :tired:
The only issue I really have with Street Fighter (other than not caring one whit about the characters) is having them in a team-oriented environment. Last I heard, even with the Marvel vs Capcom, it was all about one-on-one fights. Nothing even remotely like teamups of any sort with those guys, and so the whole "flavour" of the SF environment would be nonexistent.
Although... I have heard mutterings of some sort of special scenarios with the SF rules that allow for this sort of thing, so it might actually work out surprisingly better than I first thought. I think I would enjoy that aspect immensely, if true.
After all, I do love my OMA's; easily half of the 200 point games I play involve Bizarro #1 vs everyone else. :grin:

[hanzoslash]

Last I heard, even with the Marvel vs Capcom, it was all about one-on-one fights. Nothing even remotely like teamups of any sort with those guys

Wrong. The Marvel vs Capcom series has been exclusively a team up fighter. The second and third game in the series makes you pick a team of 3 fighters to go against a team of 3 fighters. If anything, they should make the fighters add up to even 300 point totals.

[brevard321]

Well I don't know if this tag below specifically references me, but I'm sure it does! Check out the tags on this thread. Now I know I've made it! :)

brevard's swan song

But seriously, yeah, I have been outspoken on all the Modern Age vs non-Modern Age for the new properties.

I am anxious to see how it all shakes out, because I just don't want to buy Heroclix pieces that I won't be able to use in Heroclix games, or that won't be supported fully.

[tchipley]

I've been expecting this announcement for quite a while. I'm not a fan of the retirement paradigm, but it's one of the ways WizKids keeps making money, so I understand it. In any event, losing these 4 sets brings us up to where we would be if they'd maintained the original retirement schedule...

I'm glad we are on the same side. I do want to point out something.

Wizkids doesn't need retirement to keep making money. Their sets keep on getting sold out. They are printing their own money with this property.

They are more shooting themselves in the foot with this approach. I see consumers not wanting to invest in a game where the value of what they purchased is diminished by retirement. They also view it as a cost prohibition to keep up with their version of the Modern Age.

The only thing retirement sounds like to me is ye olde "industry standards" bugle that keeps getting blown.

This works for Wizards of the Coast but is unnecessary for Wizkids.

[Beck]

by rotating out figures, you are discouraging stagnation.

Before set rotation, everyone had to deal with KC Green Lantern, KC Flash, and Icons Supes for the lonest time. Retirement came along and the formats became more diverse. No longer did you have to worry about facing KC Green Lantern, no more trying to build a team to beat LAMP.

And there will be a time, if you stick around long enough, where Nightcrawler will get retired and we won't have to worry about him anymore.

I think the set rotation will do A LOT more good than harm because we're losing the pogs. I've said it before, but losing the pogs opens up the modern age format like a ripe cadaver. You'd be surprised how much the special object pogs warped the format.


But to everyone griping that 'retirement is bad, I won't support the wizkids shell-game'.

You want to complain about your investment? Go play Type II Magic: The Gathering. Get ready to take out a 2nd Mortgage just to keep competitive.

Think Wizkids is a shell-game? Play Yugioh, their company does not give a flying rats-arse about their customer base--in fact, a few of their staff members flat out insult the customer base (doesn't help that the demographic is mostly immature kids under 18).
I've voiced how bad Yugioh is on several occasions, I'll explain more if anyone wants to.
(I will also say, be grateful that Wiz/NECA decided to do away with chases in Web Of Spider-Man. That was HUGE.)

But if you're complaining about how many sets are coming out. You don't HAVE to collect every single piece that is pooped out.
If you're complaining about how much a chase figure (given, a chase figure that isn't necessary to be competitive) in Heroclix is. Try looking up the prices of some of the competitive cards for M:TG and Yugioh.
Here. Look up 'Pot Of Duality'. And you need 3 in a deck to have something competitive.

Quit uselessly griping about something that will not change (set retirement) and accept it or leave. Just stop griping about it. For the love of everything good and holy, just shut up.

[GroovyBoy]

I'm glad we are on the same side. I do want to point out something.

Wizkids doesn't need retirement to keep making money. Their sets keep on getting sold out. They are printing their own money with this property.

They are more shooting themselves in the foot with this approach. I see consumers not wanting to invest in a game where the value of what they purchased is diminished by retirement. They also view it as a cost prohibition to keep up with their version of the Modern Age.

The only thing retirement sounds like to me is ye olde "industry standards" bugle that keeps getting blown.

This works for Wizards of the Coast but is unnecessary for Wizkids.

But the huge difference between this version of retirement and the Topps/WizKids of retirement is that venues have complete discression over what kind of events to run. Yes, I understand that some people live near venues that only run Modern Age tournaments, but at least the possibility exists for that to change, as opposed to before. This is really only a restriction for games at a convention level...

[charlesdward]

Wrong. The Marvel vs Capcom series has been exclusively a team up fighter. The second and third game in the series makes you pick a team of 3 fighters to go against a team of 3 fighters. If anything, they should make the fighters add up to even 300 point totals.

I'm actually glad to be wrong about that, quite honestly. My assumption came from the old SF days, when there was a wait in the arcade just to get a turn on the game. Remember arcades? But that was never really my personal favourite, and as a result I've pretty much ignored Marvel vs Capcom since day 1. But the teamup format does make the clix version more palatable, certainly.

[GeminiAnon]

I have always thought there should be 3 formats: Golden Age, Silver Age, and Modern Age. This would not only be Comic Accurate, but could be divided in to Pre-cards (Golden), Pre-Hammer of Thor (Silver), and NECA Era (Modern).

[GroovyBoy]

I've always thought that the game's rules shouldn't revolve around my personal opinions. But maybe I'm just a jerk...

[Gentlegamer]

Wrong. The Marvel vs Capcom series has been exclusively a team up fighter. The second and third game in the series makes you pick a team of 3 fighters to go against a team of 3 fighters. If anything, they should make the fighters add up to even 300 point totals.
Yeah, exactly. There could even be a "tag" mechanic for combos!

[Firelord Hero]

By sexier, you must mean more stupid.

All the new properties DO belong in Modern Age, the same as if they made a new Hellboy or TMNT set would belong in Modern Age.

It's like, let me run a Checkmate team with all these neat Checkmate soldiers or Easy Company soldiers, but yeah, no way should you run a Halo team with all those neat soldiers that just came out.

They're the exact same thing!

Deapool (a running joke) and Nextwave (I don't know what the heck they're supposed to be) are okay, but Street Fighter isn't?!? :tired:

First off, infraction please? I cant reference stupidity in posts, yet he can? Descrimination.

No, Brevard, I meant sexier. Thats why I typed it. Attempt to read closely if you can.

I am merely pointing out that in Modern Age (which is used for cons and worlds) should be cut into comic related characters only. Its a preference of mine. Yes I know SF had comics out, but Halo and GoW are video games in which comics derived from. I don't care for that in my "official" playlist. Be grateful that its being made at all and that you can buy it. Keep it out of my coveted Modern Age plox.

Frankly, I dont care what I face on the other side of the table. The objective is to kill it. Simple. If you want to run Aragorn and some Halo Grunts by all means, do it.

[brevard321]

First off, infraction please? I cant reference stupidity in posts, yet he can? Descrimination.

No, Brevard, I meant sexier. Thats why I typed it. Attempt to read closely if you can.

I am merely pointing out that in Modern Age (which is used for cons and worlds) should be cut into comic related characters only. Its a preference of mine. Yes I know SF had comics out, but Halo and GoW are video games in which comics derived from. I don't care for that in my "official" playlist. Be grateful that its being made at all and that you can buy it. Keep it out of my coveted Modern Age plox.

Frankly, I dont care what I face on the other side of the table. The objective is to kill it. Simple. If you want to run Aragorn and some Halo Grunts by all means, do it.

Yeah, but that's the thing.

Why do YOU get to decide that?

Why is your position that the non-comic book stuff should be kept out of YOUR Modern Age so much more important than my position that the non-comic book stuff should be allowed in Modern Age.

You say that you don't care what team you face during a game, but then you say "Keep it out of my coveted Modern Age plox."

And I didn't call anyone in particular stupid. I called a (tentative) ruling about Modern Age legality for the new properties stupid. Because it is. :)

And the other thing is, I don't care at all about Street Fighter, Halo, or Gears of War. Yeah, I will buy them if they are legal to play in weekly tournaments, but I was not the one clamoring for these kinds of sets. Lord of the Rings is a different story, but I would much rather see Terminator, Aliens, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, or Sherlock Holmes before Lord of the Rings.

So I have no reason to be all "grateful just because they're making them."

The properties themselves are not super-duper attractive to me. However, I am worried about the precedence of undermining new properties once again, as was done with Horrorclix and Halo Actionclix.

And I don't want to run Aragorn with Halo and Street Fighter. I will however want to play a thematic Lord of the Rings team, or possibly run Halo soldiers with SHIELD or other thematic teams.

Listen, I'm not the bad guy here, I don't do stuff like running OOTS Batman with Bullseye and Nightcrawler. That's not me. I've never done anything like that.

I'm also not the one who says that someone should only play thematic teams. I say play what you want, that's the whole point!

But if the Modern Age ruling stands, basically Wizkids is saying to all the fans of the new properties, "Yes, play what you want. But oh yeah, you can't play this brand new wicked cool stuff you just bought. Sorry! But you can always play it at home by yourself."

I'm just speaking for the Heroclix fans who SHOULD be a little ticked off if the brand new properties are not allowed in Modern Age for no apparent reason. That's all.

[vlad3theimpaler]

Listen, I'm not the bad guy here, I don't do stuff like running OOTS Batman with Bullseye and Nightcrawler. That's not me. I've never done anything like that.


So, if I do run that team, does that mean I am the bad guy here?

[brevard321]

So, if I do run that team, does that mean I am the bad guy here?

Well, you know... :laugh:

No, I was just referring to the previous post where Firelord Hero was talking playing Aragorn with Halo grunts.

I play thematically about 99% of the time. That's how I like to play.

I know some people don't, and care nothing for theme, but just care for good old strategy board game fun.

The only time I have a real problem with the non-thematic stuff is when it's a total cheese-ball team, and the player in question ONLY plays cheese-ball teams.

If someone wants to team up Captain America and Batman because they like the characters, that's fine.

If someone wants to team up Captain America and Batman but will only use HOT Cap and OOTS Batman EVERY SINGLE TIME because they're so efficient, eh...

I'm just saying there are other versions of a lot of these characters out there. If someone ONLY plays the hyper-efficient stuff to pwn their opponents, well....

Everyone should play what they want. If that includes mixing universes and the new non-comic properties, I think that's fine.

The problem is, Wizkids (at this moment) doesn't feel the same way. :disappointed:

[tchipley]

But the huge difference between this version of retirement and the Topps/WizKids of retirement is that venues have complete discression over what kind of events to run. Yes, I understand that some people live near venues that only run Modern Age tournaments, but at least the possibility exists for that to change, as opposed to before. This is really only a restriction for games at a convention level...

Yes, thank goodness for that.

Groovyboy=voice of reason.

As opposed the some others out there to tell folks to quit griping and shut up.

Wizkids/NECA doesn't really need retirement per se but if they want to create and recognize this as part of the format at the convention/competitive level then that is fine.

I have multiple folks with access to the pieces used as examples (OOTS Bats, Nightcrawler, Prof X,) But I don't see them nearly as much as folks here on the realms make it out to me.

I do agree that the old school special objects should probably be retired (Especially since they didn't get a point cost added to them.)


P.S. I'm still fired up and happy about voting down a 20 year tax and so I am prone to argue this week more so that most. If I become a pain, Mods please PM me and let me know.

[Gentlegamer]

So, if I do run that team, does that mean I am the bad guy here?
Yes. Yes it does.

[Firelord Hero]

Yeah, but that's the thing.

Why do YOU get to decide that?

Why is your position that the non-comic book stuff should be kept out of YOUR Modern Age so much more important than my position that the non-comic book stuff should be allowed in Modern Age.

You say that you don't care what team you face during a game, but then you say "Keep it out of my coveted Modern Age plox."

And I didn't call anyone in particular stupid. I called a (tentative) ruling about Modern Age legality for the new properties stupid. Because it is. :)

And the other thing is, I don't care at all about Street Fighter, Halo, or Gears of War. Yeah, I will buy them if they are legal to play in weekly tournaments, but I was not the one clamoring for these kinds of sets. Lord of the Rings is a different story, but I would much rather see Terminator, Aliens, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, or Sherlock Holmes before Lord of the Rings.

So I have no reason to be all "grateful just because they're making them."

The properties themselves are not super-duper attractive to me. However, I am worried about the precedence of undermining new properties once again, as was done with Horrorclix and Halo Actionclix.

And I don't want to run Aragorn with Halo and Street Fighter. I will however want to play a thematic Lord of the Rings team, or possibly run Halo soldiers with SHIELD or other thematic teams.

Listen, I'm not the bad guy here, I don't do stuff like running OOTS Batman with Bullseye and Nightcrawler. That's not me. I've never done anything like that.

I'm also not the one who says that someone should only play thematic teams. I say play what you want, that's the whole point!

But if the Modern Age ruling stands, basically Wizkids is saying to all the fans of the new properties, "Yes, play what you want. But oh yeah, you can't play this brand new wicked cool stuff you just bought. Sorry! But you can always play it at home by yourself."

I'm just speaking for the Heroclix fans who SHOULD be a little ticked off if the brand new properties are not allowed in Modern Age for no apparent reason. That's all.

I understand what your saying and why that would be an issue for some people. My venue and most venues around here run a mix of Modern and Golden age so when I do buy LoTR clix (which will be the only license I buy into) I can play them in Golden Age. Yes I can't play them every week like I may want to, but ,fortunately for me, I can run them sometimes.

Yes its lame they will sell us something that we can't use all the time at weekly's or even at the con's. But I do understand why they're doing it and its fine with me. I tend to play thematic and at least keyworded teams, but I will no doubt mix LoTR with my superhero's at home and in Golden.

[incredible]

but I will no doubt mix LoTR with my superhero's at home and in Golden.

Someone has to keep all those lantern rings in line...
Might as well be Frodo..:)

[Lobozo]

Well all... I quit.

I will continue to play but how many sets do I need to buy a year? How fast are they going to be retired?

Crisis was only 3 years old and prorated over the time of it's legal usefulness, that set cost me $100.00/year. So in another year or so, we will lose AA and SI.... only to be replaced with a "very similar" but completely different (sarcasm) Thing and batman.

I have supported the game industry for many years now and on a few different platforms only to consistently feel the gouge of greed.

[elfholme]

Well all... I quit.

I will continue to play but how many sets do I need to buy a year? How fast are they going to be retired?

Crisis was only 3 years old and prorated over the time of it's legal usefulness, that set cost me $100.00/year. So in another year or so, we will lose AA and SI.... only to be replaced with a "very similar" but completely different (sarcasm) Thing and batman.

I have supported the game industry for many years now and on a few different platforms only to consistently feel the gouge of greed.

I don't understand your math.

Do you only use Modern Age figures? If not, then your math is off, since you are still getting value past the Modern Age "expiration date" ( ;) ). OTOH, if you DO only use Modern Age figures, then I have to ask why that is, since you so obviously hate the Modern Age format...?

I haven't "lost" Crisis, and won't be "losing" AA and SI in another year. I am currently using figures from all three sets, and plan to continue to do so for years to come.

[squirecam]

I don't understand your math.

Do you only use Modern Age figures? If not, then your math is off, since you are still getting value past the Modern Age "expiration date" ( ;) ). OTOH, if you DO only use Modern Age figures, then I have to ask why that is, since you so obviously hate the Modern Age format...?

I haven't "lost" Crisis, and won't be "losing" AA and SI in another year. I am currently using figures from all three sets, and plan to continue to do so for years to come.

Agreed.

Crisis released February 2008. WK closed in November 2008, and HOt released November 2009. Its now May 2011.

Crisis has been "legal" for at least 2 years of game time, same as other sets. While I did not want to see it or M&M retire, thats what occurred.

But thats only for Gecon/Origins. A local venue still can hold any event and anyone can still use those figs at Gencon. Just not in the worlds event.

[Hellboy]

My only surprise is that Batman Alpha isn't retired. Otherwise this is what I was expecting.

that does seem like an odd oversight...

[Beck]

Yes, thank goodness for that.

Groovyboy=voice of reason.

As opposed the some others out there to tell folks to quit griping and shut up.

I don't see how explaining the retirement/rarity system to people concerned about their 'investment' with kid gloves is really going to persuade them otherwise. It sounds like these are people who have bought boxes and boxes acquiring chase figures and knowing full well retirement happens. Only to turn around and go 'god hates me!' when retiremen does inevitably happen. If the cost of your investment is your problem, just buy the figures you need.

It really can be worse and the complainers do not know that, nor do they want to see it. They are only concerned with what is directly affecting their isolated microcosm that is Heroclix.

[Lobozo]

I don't see how explaining the retirement/rarity system to people concerned about their 'investment' with kid gloves is really going to persuade them otherwise. It sounds like these are people who have bought boxes and boxes acquiring chase figures and knowing full well retirement happens. Only to turn around and go 'god hates me!' when retiremen does inevitably happen. If the cost of your investment is your problem, just buy the figures you need.

It really can be worse and the complainers do not know that, nor do they want to see it. They are only concerned with what is directly affecting their isolated microcosm that is Heroclix.

Ok.. It was a reactionary post at a heated moment however I do believe there are a few out there that may share this opinion.

Your retiring Crisis for new Street fighter fig's....

How many options do i now have for Sinestro? Anyone notice a bunch of Sinestro's for sale on Ebay.... I have all the nightcrawler I can not use but no outsiders left available to play?

Sure I can acquire any single figure I want to use but now I am held hostage to themes like X-men and scientists because there are too few selections under a certain point value (i.e. Gencon)

I will admit that my post was pitiful and certainly reflected my frugal nature however I was and will remain spurned by this decision.





BTW- I love modern age, no doubt there...

[elfholme]

BTW- I love modern age, no doubt there...

Yeah, we can tell this from this post and the previous one of yours. :laugh: Honestly, I am perplexed...it seems that you may love the IDEA of Modern Age, but hate what Modern Age is REALLY about - tightly controlled number of figures with few non-figure rules to complicate the metagame. It's so obviously a high-level tournament format (and a reasonable one, IMO), that it still amazes me that there are venues out there that would adopt it as their standard format.

I actually DO love Modern Age. I love it because I like what it is attempting to do (establish an even playing field, keeping a tight "comic supers" theme). However, that love relies on being able to keep Modern Age in perspective, and personally avoid playing it at the local level for the most part.

When Modern Age was first unveiled, the judge at our venue tried to establish it as our default format. He did this because most of the players hate Feats and Battlefield Conditions (as part of your force; random BFCs are okay), so Modern Age seemed to fit the style of the playing group. It amazed me, because this group is also ardently pro comic book theme team, and Modern Age really flies in the face of that, particularly for teams that haven't had new members in awhile. What I did was talk to the judge and the other players. I had to work a little to convince them that this wasn't really the format for us, nor did WK intend for it to be.

So when I call for players to be proactive if your judge is running Modern Age exclusively and that doesn't fit your play group, I say that as someone who has had to do just that. Most judges are reasonable people, and if a majority of their players want to play a certain way and EXPRESS THAT, they'll come around.

If you like most of the Modern Age format but don't like that so many sets are retired, propose something to your group. Perhaps a "Silver Age", with Modern Age restrictions but allow any sets with character cards might be for you (this is just one example). If the majority wants to play that way, that's the way you should be playing.

[Lobozo]

I got 2 things that are driving me crazy with this Gauntlet... Does Mr. Immortal come back into play with the Gauntlet? and can you field more than one?

[theavengerthor]

I got 2 things that are driving me crazy with this Gauntlet... Does Mr. Immortal come back into play with the Gauntlet? and can you field more than one?

First off, resurrecting old threads is frowned upon. Secondly, I'm not sure why you decided to ask these questions here, but I'll be happy to answer them anyway.

1.) I believe he does.

2.) No, I don't believe you can.