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Arsenalroy2k
05/03/2011, 13:58
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1014&pictureid=15968FEATURING
The X-Men

Hi, folks. Welcome to another volume of Comic Accurate: Marvel Edition. Now last week I promised we were going to visit the X-Men. But which lineup do we focus on? There's plenty to choose from. The First Class? The Giant Size X-Men? The Blue & Gold Teams from the 90's? Morrison's New X-Men? Whedon's Astonishing? All viable groupings we can make based on figures that exist in Heroclix.

But we're not doing any of those. Today, we salute Chuck Austen's X-Men!

Click to read the full article! (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315996)

Arsenalroy2k
05/03/2011, 13:59
Ah, Chuck Austen. He made Nightcrawler into both The Pope *and* the son of the devil, turned Polaris crazygonuts, killed Skin, had Husk and Angel hook up in front of her mom and gave us the romantic pairing of the century with Juggernaut and She-Hulk. I'm not fond of the current direction of the main X-books as of late, but where the current runs are bad, Chuck's run was hilariously bad. It was the "Plan 9 From Outer Space" of the X-Men.

Now the first thing to address while putting together a team based around this run is the fact that Husk has not yet been made in Heroclix. And her abscence should be significant given how much of a role she played during her time in this run. But if Chuck Austen could make do without nagging details like characterization and continuity, then by God, as a tribute to the man himself, we can muddy a few details ourselves! Just say she's off picking feathers out of her teeth or something as visually disturbing. That said, here's the team:

mm039 V Havok
Team: X-Men
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 44
Keywords: X-Factor, Starjammers, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst7101646915368153581425713246131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

mm031 R Polaris
Team: X-Men
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 50
Keywords: X-Factor, X-Men
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst9815487153871437613266132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

cm042 V Archangel
Team: X-Men
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 68
Keywords: Horsemen of Apocalypse, X-Factor, X-Men
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst12101531291521081421081328713186121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

mm069 V Northstar
Team: X-Men
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 72
Keywords: Celebrity, Martial Artist, X-Men
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst129162129162118152118152107142107142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

sv016 R Jubilee
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 27
Keywords: Mutant, Teen, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst8816287161771516714187131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

gx009 V Wolverine
Team: X-Men and Avengers
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 103
Keywords: Avengers, S.H.I.E.L.D., The Hand, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst101017381017381016371116271016269152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Healing Factor: At the beginning of your turn, you may heal Wolverine of 1 damage.

gx038 E Iceman
Team: Spider-Man and X-Men
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 104
Keywords: Champions, Defenders, X-Factor, X-Men
m-transport-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst8101738917371017279162791626816168151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Ice Slide: Iceman can use Leap/Climb. After his move action resolves, you may place up to two hindering terrain markers in clear terrian in squares he moved through or occupied this turn. Remove them at the beginning of your next turn.
(Attack) Ice Cage: Iceman can use Incapacitate. When he uses it and hits, until your next turn, the hit character's speed powers are countered, it gains "boot symbol", and that character must break away for movement purposes.

gx046 E Juggernaut
Team: Brotherhood of Mutants
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 193
Keywords: Brotherhood of Mutants, Brute, Excalibur, Exiles, Mystical, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-indomitableg-starburst6111748101748111731010163101016310101538915381015289162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut: Juggernaut can use Charge and doesn't halve his speed value when using it. When he moves due to his own action along a straight hoizontal or vertical path, he ignores all terrain except elevated terrain for that action. After actions resolve, destroy each wall and square of blocking terrain crossed by his path of movement.
(Special) Mystical Helmet: At the beginning of the game, place a helmet token on this card. While that token is on this card, Juggernaut modifies his defense by +1 and can't be targeted by Incapacitate, Mind Control, and Penetrating/Psychic Blast. When Juggernaut takes 3 damage from a single attack, remove the token.
(Special) The Irresistable Force: Juggernaut ignores hindering terrian for movement purposes, and automatically breaks away.

ws047 U Nightcrawler
Team: X-Men
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 86
Keywords: Excalibur, Martial Artist, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst14101921310182129172118172108162910151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Teleportation Evacuation: Nightcrawler can use Hypersonic Speed, Stealth and the Carry Ability. When Nightcrawler uses Hypersonic Speed, a target hit by a close combat attack may be placed adjacent to Nightcrawler after the power action resolves.
(Defense) BAMF!: Nightcrawler can use Super Senses. Whenever he uses Super Senses to evade an attack, you may immediately move him up to half of his speed value.
(Special) Extra-Dimensional Teleportation: Nightcrawler ignores the effects of terrain and characters on movement.

Together, those nine characters come out to 747 points. If you want a higher build (more than we've already gotten anyways), then you can add in X-Men leaders like Professor X, Cyclops or Emma Frost. All who made appearances over the course of Austen's run in Uncanny. And if we're getting really frisky, we could also include She-Hulk. I don't care what you think, Slott. Shuggernaut happened and that kind of magic can't un-happen!

Getting back on track here, I'm sticking with our nine characters. To fill out the points with feats, I'm throwing Armor Piercing on both Northstar and Nightcrawler (yes, ugly, I know) and Fortitude & Protected on Juggernaut. The team is now 800 exactly.

But after a year and a half on Uncanny X-Men, Chuck had to move on... to the adjectiveless X-Men, taking the reins from Grant Morrison. Write your own jokes there, folks.

So while he changed titles around the time of the ReLoad, he also changed his lineup. Northstar, Jubilee, Nightcrawler and Angel all moved on (as did the MIA Husk) and in came Rogue, Gambit and technically, the new Xorn. This second Xorn never joined officially, and before he could ever be confirmed, he stabbed the X-Men in the back and joined The Brotherhood. But we'll include him anyways for that brief time when he was an ally, just because the figure is so neat. The figure is meant to be the first Xorn (I think), but if they're going to make the two twin brothers indestinguishable from one another, why shouldn't we?

ul085 U Xorn
Team: X-Men
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 94
Keywords: Brotherhood of Mutants, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst91016489153881528714277131761216613165121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

ui054 V Gambit
Team: X-Men
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 51
Keywords: Horsemen of Apocalypse, X-Men
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst891727816278151671416714156131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

gx030 E Rogue
Team: X-Men
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 128
Keywords: Brotherhood of Mutants, X-Men
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst10101739917389163810163791637916279152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Power Absorption: Once during your turn, you may give Rogue a free action and choose an adjacent character and a standard power (other than Outwit or Perplex) that they can use. Until your next turn, Rogue may use the chosen standard power. If Rogue has no action tokens or the chosen character is friendly, deal 1 unavoidable damage to the chosen character.

Dumping Archangel, Nightcrawler, Northstar, Jubilee and the feats while putting in Rogue, Gambit and Xorn, this new lineup comes out to 767 points. For feats, we put Stunning Blow on Iceman, Running Start on Gambit, Triage on Xorn and again, a Protected on Juggernaut. We're right back to 800 points on the dot. The beauty of this team is that with the ruling on Rogue's Power Absorption not dealing damage to a friendly on the first turn due to First Turn Immunity? You can start the game with three TK'ers, getting several of your characters into action a lot quicker. For added fun, play War Zone as your BFC so Xorn can heal four clicks as long as he hits, divvying it up with Triage if neccesary. Between that, Wolverine's trait and the X-Men TA, your team can heal a lot quicker when needed.

Next time, we take a break from the X-Universe and visit some other superheroes. Ones that are for hire.

WestCoastAvengers
05/03/2011, 14:09
It's nice to see Havok.

saturnflight
05/03/2011, 14:21
Xorn! The only reason I run that lineup. I'd suggest LE Polaris for crazy Lorna. And how can you not use the X-TA Juggernaut from Fantastic Forces? Great roster, despite being a terribly written series. (Bonus points for anyone who adds Nurse *Annie* to the team!)

UncannyAvenger
05/03/2011, 14:27
Um... were you by chance inspired to do this by my reply in the Excalibur thread? (Cuz I mentioned using an Austen X-Men team there)

Just wonderin- I like being an inspiration for big public things.

Wyldstaar
05/03/2011, 14:34
I had started reading X-Men again after a long stretch without doing so, until Austen came aboard. I dropped them again, and haven't been back since.

Norym
05/03/2011, 15:39
I had started reading X-Men again after a long stretch without doing so, until Austen came aboard. I dropped them again, and haven't been back since.

The best part of Austin writing the X-Men was his departure.

Shield001
05/03/2011, 15:45
The beauty of this team is that with the ruling on Rogue's Power Absorption not dealing damage to a friendly on the first turn due to First Turn

when did that happen?

Hesster56
05/03/2011, 16:18
One of the immortal lines from Twisted Toyfare Theater: "Once you go Juggernaut, it is physically impossible to go back."

Oh, the lolz.

Dragon_Rose
05/03/2011, 16:35
No ####ting.... I just made this team last week!

Rouge’s X-men 800
128 GX030 Rogue
104 GX038 Iceman
193 GX046 Juggernaut
20 MMF006 Rip It Up
8 MUF102 Protected
90 MU032 Gambit
10 AWF007 Armor Piercing
10 IOF008 Swingline
76 MM033 Polaris
3 BBF103 Not So Special
44 MM039 Havok
3 BBF103 Not So Special
94 SN090 Wolverine
12 MMF001 Automatic Regeneration
5 BBS001 Red Lantern
800

Its like kismet! Of course I never read the series., just saw the cover and had to make them:cool:

Thunderclese
05/03/2011, 16:59
Did..did Nightcrawler actually become Pope? I knew he became a priest way back, after the Twelve story arc, but seriously?

flakbait
05/03/2011, 17:15
Ugh. Austen is when I stopped reading X-books altogether. Avengers for a while, too.

Arsenalroy2k
05/03/2011, 17:29
Did..did Nightcrawler actually become Pope? I knew he became a priest way back, after the Twelve story arc, but seriously?

Well, I have to correct that. The Church or Humanity intended for Kurt to become Pope, but it never ended up working. But the fact that he *almost* became Pope is still pretty insane.

when did that happen?

It's in the rules forum.

One of the immortal lines from Twisted Toyfare Theater: "Once you go Juggernaut, it is physically impossible to go back."

Emotionally too.

Um... were you by chance inspired to do this by my reply in the Excalibur thread?

Unfortunately, that was not the case. As I write these articles in advance, this one was written well before the Excalibur one was even posted.

I'd suggest LE Polaris for crazy Lorna. And how can you not use the X-TA Juggernaut from Fantastic Forces?

I'd use LE Polaris only at a higher build total. Because you basically *have* to play her with Nova Blast. As for Juggernaut, the new one is just flat-out awesome. Sure, he doesn't have the TA but 39 points more for Indomitable, better average attack, higher defenses, the automatic breakaway and ignoring hindering terrain for movement... Well worth it.

I played the lineup (albeit with different feats) early last month (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5475154&postcount=220) and Juggy was a serious MVP. Rogue too. Her ability to just dish out a click of unavoidable damage just for having zero tokens and being next to someone is phenomenal.

The Charlatan
05/03/2011, 17:40
I actually collected all of Austen's run when it came out and liked it alright, or at least certainly didn't hate it. For the most part. Everything that happened surrounding Nightcrawler sucked horribly, and Nurse Annie and Polaris' related freak-out bugged me. The Romeo and Juliet rip-off was weak storywise but at least the art was good. The new Xorn was confusing but found him more 'meh' then 'ugh'. Angel is probably only around 8 or 9 years older than Husk but it still felt weird and having sex in the sky right in front of her mother for chistsakes!?... I did genuinely enjoy Juggernaut's character development throughout and him trying to make peace with his former enemies and step-brother. Northstar felt underused, though him having a secret gay crush on Iceman was interesting. Iceman himself acted unusually @$$holeish, due to him starting to turn completely to ice. And there was Stacy-X who thankfully disappeared fairly early on. The scene where Skin dies has already been summed up by Linkara for me- "Oh no, not Angelo!... Wait, who's Angelo?"

I didn't realize it was so hated and consider so bad until years after I'd (mostly) liked it, reading about comics on the internet. While there were plenty of things that struck me as 'off' even then, but I'd never actually thought about it as 'horribad'. Only in hindsight/internet nerd peer pressure do I see so many of he flaws. So yea, Nightcrawler was a Chew Toy and Nurse Annie was a Relationship Sue, but I still liked what was done with Juggernaut.

But then, you know, I can also watch Battlefield Earth and honestly kinda enjoy it, love old crappy 50/60 scifi movies, and liked Revenge of the Fallen better than the first Transforemrs movie (less squishy human= good, more giant robots fighting= good, plot= whatever thin reason is required for giant robots to want to fight) so...

bettytheninja
05/03/2011, 17:44
Good right up. I couldn't stand it when the x-men were this bad. Austen really knew how to bring a franchise down. It was such a shame that Alex Summers (my favorite Summers brother) had to come back into comics in such a horrible title. Should have just left him in limbo.

cattmoe
05/03/2011, 18:17
A good line-up ruined by a horrid, horrid writer. Austen is like Voldemort; I have to refer to him as he-who-shall-not-be-named because just the thought of his run (especially what he did to Nightcrawler and the disgusting Angel/Husk thing) makes me want to break things.

Although I hate to give him any credit whatsoever, I have say that Austen's King Hyperion arc in Exiles was pretty great. But everything else... I don't even like to think about, it just makes me really, really bitter.

someoneyouarenot
05/03/2011, 18:31
I think I might be the only person that liked this run of comics? lol I liked the stories, the characters, and the art. I play this themed team often with my X-Men clix and use various versions of the characters - minus poor Husk who hasn't been made yet. But all in all it makes for fun gaming!

SevenFeathers
05/03/2011, 19:31
i totally use my Night Nurse as "Nurse Annie", i am not a huge fan of this run, but i did enjoy parts of it...if i remember correctly it was during this run that the story arch with Chamber (one of my favorites...clix sux horribly) and the pop-star (brittany spears rip off)...i liked that one

does anyone know of Cypher's where-a-bouts?

Superclone
05/03/2011, 20:10
but it still felt weird and having sex in the sky right in front of her mother for chistsakes!?

Wait ... they did what? But how ... with the wings ... and the airborne ... but ... what?

Ow. My head.

TheGreatestUsername
05/03/2011, 20:17
I actually enjoyed his run for the most part (except for the "The Draco" arc.) Though I liked Peter Milligan's run much much more. Salvador Larroca's art was definitely a plus too for both runs.
I'll probably play a team based off his run.

Arsenalroy2k
05/03/2011, 20:22
.if i remember correctly it was during this run that the story arch with Chamber (one of my favorites...clix sux horribly) and the pop-star (brittany spears rip off)...i liked that one

That was "Poptopia", during Joe Casey's run.

does anyone know of Cypher's where-a-bouts?

He's alive and sucking in the current New Mutants book.

Ouchmaker
05/03/2011, 21:24
I don't care what you think, Slott. Shuggernaut happened and that kind of magic can't un-happen!

This second Xorn never joined officially, and before he could ever be confirmed, he stabbed the X-Men in the back and joined The Brotherhood.

Yeah, Slott's "it was an alternate universe She-Hulk" was just rude, the deed happened.

The second Xorn didn't do that, he opened his helmet in order to get the attacking Brotherhood off of Xavier's mansion before they (mainly the treeish Black Tom) killed everyone.

As for Austen, as much as he butchered most characters, I did like the general feel and atmosphere of the group in his books, and I did like the change in Juggernaut that we've had the pleasure of seeing ever since. Morrison stayed true to the characters but made me dislike overall feel of the book, not to mention Quitely makes everyone look fugly.

Wyldstaar
05/03/2011, 21:35
Yeah, I'd heard somewhere that the Juggy/She-Hulk hookup was being undone. That sort of thing is just pointless. Austen wasn't the first person to write characters into idiotic situations, and he won't be the last. Nobody ever bothered to try and undo the fact that Juggernaught destroyed one of the towers of the World Trade Center back in the 1990's, so why waste time with a minor footnote like banging Jennifer?

clameire
05/04/2011, 05:50
why use the worst archangel available when you can use the lastest ones which are cheaper and more effective ?

why use the new juggernaut when you can use the one with the x-men ta ?

other than that, great teams and great article, even if it's clearly not the run and the team roster i like the most in the x-men...

now if we talk x-men, astonishing or the uncanny from the dark phoenix saga seems far more appealing to me !

Arsenalroy2k
05/04/2011, 06:04
why use the worst archangel available when you can use the lastest ones which are cheaper and more effective ?

In honor of Austen; we don't have to be effective. Hell, things don't even have to make sense!

why use the new juggernaut when you can use the one with the x-men ta ?

I believe I responded to that 11 posts ago.

Nobody ever bothered to try and undo the fact that Juggernaught destroyed one of the towers of the World Trade Center back in the 1990's, so why waste time with a minor footnote like banging Jennifer?

Because a character's sexual relations will always be perceived as more controversial than any violent acts they commit while being a super hero or villain.

JOwenR2
05/04/2011, 08:13
Great Review just curious why you went with the old Vet Archangel over the new angel, I could only guess name and costume. Still awesome :) Oh and totally looking forward to your next article!

UncannyAvenger
05/04/2011, 12:20
I actually collected all of Austen's run when it came out and liked it alright, or at least certainly didn't hate it. For the most part. Everything that happened surrounding Nightcrawler sucked horribly, and Nurse Annie and Polaris' related freak-out bugged me. The Romeo and Juliet rip-off was weak storywise but at least the art was good. The new Xorn was confusing but found him more 'meh' then 'ugh'. Angel is probably only around 8 or 9 years older than Husk but it still felt weird and having sex in the sky right in front of her mother for chistsakes!?... I did genuinely enjoy Juggernaut's character development throughout and him trying to make peace with his former enemies and step-brother. Northstar felt underused, though him having a secret gay crush on Iceman was interesting. Iceman himself acted unusually @$$holeish, due to him starting to turn completely to ice. And there was Stacy-X who thankfully disappeared fairly early on. The scene where Skin dies has already been summed up by Linkara for me- "Oh no, not Angelo!... Wait, who's Angelo?"

I didn't realize it was so hated and consider so bad until years after I'd (mostly) liked it, reading about comics on the internet. While there were plenty of things that struck me as 'off' even then, but I'd never actually thought about it as 'horribad'. Only in hindsight/internet nerd peer pressure do I see so many of he flaws. So yea, Nightcrawler was a Chew Toy and Nurse Annie was a Relationship Sue, but I still liked what was done with Juggernaut.

But then, you know, I can also watch Battlefield Earth and honestly kinda enjoy it, love old crappy 50/60 scifi movies, and liked Revenge of the Fallen better than the first Transforemrs movie (less squishy human= good, more giant robots fighting= good, plot= whatever thin reason is required for giant robots to want to fight) so...

I don't know how long you'd been reading the comics before that, but here were some of the things that I (and many others) saw as contextually wrong with Austen's run on X-Men:

1) Treatment of characters' personalities with little explanation or respect to continuity. Polaris goes nuts as her connection to Magneto is truly revealed? Angel and Husk having no compunction with public sex with an almost-minor in front of her mother? Northstar is now like "one of the girls" because he's gay? He also makes inappropriate jokes about Juggernaut wanting to check on Squid-boy? Havok cowering to psycho-Polaris and rushing to get married and no other X-Men noticing the weirdness of that? Jubilee's mourning of her friend's brutal murder is overshadowed by regretting that she didn't get to sleep with him? The Brotherhood is all about death and destruction? Black Tom is a child murderer? Juggernaut trying to be a double agent for the Brotherhood*? A nationalistic Alpha Flight that must fight the X-Men again? Ugh... my head hurts... my stomach churns...

2) Treatment of characters' powers and abilities in weird/unrealistic/inconsistent ways. He seemed to take what were some easily-stereotyped potentials with the characters and run them directly into the ground with little explanation or direction. Examples? Angel now has "angelic" powers of healing? Nightcrawler's demonic appearance now has to have a "demonic" origin? Juggernaut struggling to get to Colossus-level strength? Wolverine loses a hand-to-hand fight to a werewolf that Archangel beats in a hand-to-hand fight? Really?

3) Introductions of inane, mostly one dimensional characters. Annie Ghazikhanian. Mammomax. Maximus Lobo. Azazel. Carter Ghazikhanian. Squid Boy. Any of these characters could've been substituted with logically updated established characters with personalities. Nurse Annie really got on my nerves because she was such a Mary Sue catch-all for a non-mutant in an X-book. Only Squid Boy interested me, but then Austen killed him.

*Remember, kids, that although Juggernaut has often been portrayed as an ally or member of the Brotherhood in various non-comic incarnations, Austen's run was the first time he was included as a member, even if it was just as a double agent... cuz, y'know, Juggernaut has always been about the subterfuge and keep 'em guessin stuff... :tired:

Thunderclese
05/04/2011, 12:35
While I did like the whole Juggernaut seeking some redemption angle (I'm a sucker for that sort of thing), overall the stuff I'm seeing from this run is just frighteningly bad. I only ever read the Trial of the Juggernaut storyline (wherein he and Shulkie get freaky), and man, that was enough to scare me away.

Amora's_best_friend
05/04/2011, 12:55
Northstar felt underused, though him having a secret gay crush on Iceman was interesting.

I'm not sure why it was secret, considering Iceman's pretty much asking for it, being eternally 19, skating around in nothing but translucent underwear :laugh::p

Arsenalroy2k
05/04/2011, 13:21
Mammomax.

Sir, there was nothing inane or one dimensional about Mammomax. Just pure 100% unadulterated ####ing balls-to-the-wall awesomeness.

MAMMOMAX NEVER FORGETS.

UncannyAvenger
05/04/2011, 14:12
Sir, there was nothing inane or one dimensional about Mammomax. Just pure 100% unadulterated ####ing balls-to-the-wall awesomeness.

MAMMOMAX NEVER FORGETS.

... Until he was eaten by Predator Xs :(

Moment of silence... :sleep:

Ouchmaker
05/04/2011, 20:53
... Until he was eaten by Predator Xs :(

Moment of silence... :sleep:

It's the Marvel way to kill potentially cool villains by eating them.

Blockbuster from the Marauders was eaten by the "demonic evil" during Inferno.

Cyber was eaten by insects so that Tyler, son of Cable could try and give Wolverine his Adamantium skeleton back (along with some mind control devices).

Mammomax was eaten by Predator X's.

I'm sure there's more.