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ol_Dut
05/06/2011, 23:06
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=16042" align="left" style="width:200px;padding-right:5px">FEATURING
GSX #104 Archangel

Today we've got the full story on the X-Men’s own “poor little rich boy”. GSX LE Archangel is getting done-up like a Thanksgiving turkey and it’s time for lunch!

Click on Full Story for the full story.

ol_Dut
05/06/2011, 23:23
Alright clickers, here’s a quick and condensed history lesson on Angel, AKA Archangel. It’s a little odd, you’ve been warned.

Poor Warren Worthington III. He’s got pile of money, so he’s happy! Then he gets all mutanty and wingy so he’s sad. Soon he finds the X-Men and calls himself Angel so he’s happy. Then he gets his wings ripped off, so he’s sad again. Unable to cope, he makes a deal with Apocalypse to get his wings back which is stupid, but he thinks it will make him happy so that’s what he does. Hey, it’s a well known fact that you can’t buy sense with dollars. So Warren gets new metal wings from Apocalypse and he can fly again so he should be happy, but he’s been all brainwashed, so who can tell? Mostly he just seems angry. Plus, he’s blue. Then he gets freed from Apocalypse’s evil grip, so he’s happy, but all screwed up at the same time and he calls himself Archangel because now he’s also all grim and gritty. It’s not long until he accidentally cuts off the head of the Mutant Liberation Front’s leader and is sad until he gets a sweet new costume that makes him happy. Yeah! Then his metal wings get wrecked and his foofy, feathery ones grow back. And he turns back to his regular color. Sweet! Then he dates a nice girl and a hooker, so we assume he’s really, really happy. Or maybe just really tired. Later, he buys the X-Men a new place in San Francisco because the X-mansion got wrecked, so now everybody’s happy. Not for long though, because Wolfesbane rips his wings off and runs off with them. Maybe she was hungry? Now Warren is sad again, until he re-grows the metal (ok, techno-organic) wings and turns blue and runs around with the X-Men and X-Force. One assumes this makes him happy. But who can tell?

There you have it; decades of continuity reduced to one paragraph. And this is exactly where we find our figures for today. SR Archangel is an X-Man (and a Horseman), and LE Archangel is from X-Force. But enough history. Looking at the dials is what’s going to make me happy.


http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=16040
Ya put you right leg in and you shake it all about!



Here is GSX SR #049 Archangel

#049 R Archangel
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 99
Keywords: Horsemen of Apocalypse, X-factor, X-men
m-transport-winga-normald-normalg-normal1211173101016210101731010162891638916279152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO:star:The Fourth Horseman: Death Modify Archangel's combat values by +1 until the end of the turn for each opposing character KO'd this turn.



And here is GSX LE #104 Archangel

#104 V Archangel
Team: X-men
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 86
Keywords: X-Club, X-Force, X-men
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal9917399172111017310101721091629916298161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOAttack - Razor Wings: Archangel can use Blades/Claws/Fangs. Archangel can be given a close combat action as a free action instead of a close combat attack while using Hypersonic Speed.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=894&pictureid=16041
Hey kids! Team me up with hook...er, I mean Con Artists. It's Comic Book Accurate!

LE #104 Archangels Gains vs. SR #049 Archangel
For starters, LE Archangel adds the X-Club and X-Force keywords to go along with his tough-guy, grim and gritty costume change. Very comic accurate.

On his Speed track, the LE acquires three clicks of Stealth, two at the top and one at the bottom. Stealth may not be as good as it once was for safely maneuvering into position, but with some thought and care, it should still serve him will. Once the Stealth fades, Warren transitions to two clicks of Hyper Sonic Speed which gets a little extra tweak as we’ll see below.

The attack enhancements are lead off by two clicks of Quake, followed by two of the Razor Wings special power. This essentially lets the LE use Blades/Claws/Fangs in conjunction with Hyper Sonic Speed, and giving him some truly remarkable damage potential for a figure at his point cost. Once that runs dry, we’re down to the much more pedestrian Incapacitate. On the whole, though, the sweet spot for Warren is on clicks three and four.

Defensively, LE Archangel swaps out three top of dial clicks of Energy Shield/Deflection in favor of three clicks of Combat Reflexes. Numerically, he sees an improvement with two more 17’s to make him much harder to hit.

The only real “improvement” to the damage track is the addition of one click of Support. And that lonely yellow square show ups on his very last click. I’ve got an opinion or two about this, but we’ll wait for a bit before we get into that.

LE Archangel’s Losses vs. SR Archangel
Along with the costume change, and again coming at us from the land of Comic Book Accuracy, the LE does not have The Fourth Horseman: Death trait. He also sheds 13 Points, the Horsemen and X-Factor keywords, and the Transporter symbol which gives the SR the ability to Move and Attack on every click. Considering how things keep changing with this M&A power, you may care a lot or could care less.

The losses on the speed track are limited to three clicks of Charge. This may not seem like much, but with them the SR had a legitimate move and attack threat on the first five clicks, not including the newly revised M&A power. More than anything else, this feels like a pretty significant loss.

From an attack perspective, the story here is more about the numbers. The LE gives up the SR’s 11 attack and also drops one click of 10 attack. As far as powers go, the LE ditches the ever-popular Psychic Blast and the gimmicky but fun when it works Steal Energy. Three clicks of Blades/Claws/Fangs fall by the wayside, but due to the LE’s special power, the real net loss is just one click.

As mentioned above, the LE drops three clicks of ES/D in favor of Combat Reflexes. And as far as damage goes, the LE loses two clicks of Shape Change, two of Battle Fury, one click of three damage and one click of two damage. And here the bleeding stops. But is it too late?

If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Archangel vs. SR Archangel?
Let me begin by saying that while some folks totally geek-out over the whole Four Horsemen thing, I’m not one of ‘em and that’s not going to have anything do, one way or the other, with the selection. All I’m really concerned about here are the dials and their relative utility.

The Super Rare is all about aggression. With five top of dial clicks of a move and attack power (Running Shot and Charge), all he wants to do is get into the fight and make people pay. Running Shot and Psy Blast is a combination that never gets old. When he shifts to Charge, we get Steal Energy and B/C/F. Yet another great power combination. As he works his way through his dial, his utility never diminishes, and thanks to a slick layout of Regeneration and Steal Energy, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that he could get beat down, and then bounce back to his second click all game long. The beatings can just keep going and going as if secretly powered by some brutally sadistic Energizer bunny.

Then we get to the LE. He’s got Stealth at the top of his dial. The fun trick is that if you base him, he can Quake you. Except not really. Now I can just safely TK a dumpster into him from a safe distance, so his Stealth/Quake combo isn’t really making me all a quiver with anticipation. Then we get to his butter zone – clicks three and four with HSS and Razor Wings. For two clicks he can dash in, do up to six clicks of damage, and then dash off. For two clicks. Two clicks. Two. And in the middle of his dial at that. Once that little pat of butter is melted, we’re down to Running Shot and Incap. While this may be effective, it certainly is far from sexy and exciting. On his last click we get teased with Support. Will anyone ever use this? I won’t. Not when I can potentially Regen and get back to the last butter click. Will youever get there? If we have learned nothing by now it's that funny powers on the last click are just a big tease and your odds of landing on them are remote at best. Date with a supermodel remote. We're talking live people not jpegs here. And logically it makes no sense to me at all. "Gee whiz, guys, I'm about dead, but let me put a band-aid on that for ya." Who does that? They could have just shaved off those points and let the poor little bird boy Regen without some sort of option paralysis to bunge up what should be a simple decsion for him to roll a die and fix himself. But in all honesty, I like Support about as much as I like people taking staple guns to my eyes, so I’m admittedly biased.

When I started this review, I honestly had no strong opinion either way. I liked both pieces for different reasons. However, after going through this process, I have to say that when I need to play an Archangel, I will take out the Super Rare Archangel every single time. Why? Because he’s useful on every single click. Since the name of the game isn’t WussyClix, Archangel helps put the Hero bit across really well by kicking some big-time booty on those first five clicks. And every single time he takes the slightest bit of damage, he’s got the ability to get better and go kick more booty. He can do this all by himself all game long. To boil it down we get to this question at its most basic; Do I pick self-sufficient, lethal and long-lived or a figure that’s really only good on his third and fourth click? The choice is obvious. SR Archangel wins! So he’s happy. But now his LE self is sad. So sad that he’s making that black costume a little bit blacker. But I'm sure a back seat full of hookers and a trunk full of drugs will cheer him right up.

Next week, I’m going to pick on one of the ladies from the set. Come back to see which one. Will you laugh? Will she cry? Only time will tell! Thanks for reading.

goblynqueen23
05/07/2011, 00:11
Great article. I know what I'm picking next time. Thank you.

mr-coffin
05/07/2011, 00:56
13 points cheaper AND he has the x-men team ability? I think you made the wrong choice, the LE is one of the best taxi's Cyclops could ask for. Or Wolverine.

ol_Dut
05/07/2011, 01:14
13 points cheaper AND he has the x-men team ability? I think you made the wrong choice, the LE is one of the best taxi's Cyclops could ask for. Or Wolverine.

Sure, that's true. But the SR can taxi also, and lay down some hurt while he does it. The LE just flies and parks.

Darknesspwns
05/07/2011, 01:15
the Le is not as bad as you made him out to be, he plays just like the rest of the x force does and adds a bit more to the show. i only wish the x force wolverine was as nice as the new gsx one...

Owlman
05/07/2011, 01:38
Love it, fantastic article. I'm still going to play the LE on an all X-Force team, but if it's a higher point match and I don't care about breaking theme, I'll play the SR for sure.

kirbunkle
05/07/2011, 01:38
Great review. I like your thoughts, and I feel similarly about the figures.

My only reservation for using the SR is his 6 range. I just don't... like... that... 6... range...

But I guess for 99 points it's pretty fair. Plus compared to the other one it's a lot better than that insulting 4 range.

Mr. Coffin does make a good point though. X-Men TA really does make this fig a lot better since now you can control where he is on his dial, making it a lot more likely for him to get to his sweet, juicy hyper-blades.

Owlman
05/07/2011, 01:40
13 points cheaper AND he has the x-men team ability? I think you made the wrong choice, the LE is one of the best taxi's Cyclops could ask for. Or Wolverine.

If cheapness and the X-Men TA determines the better Angel, then the First Class Angel wins for being only 50 points and not modifying his speed by -2 when carrying.

WestCoastAvengers
05/07/2011, 01:57
Really funny review. I like the SR better too. Stealth is not as good as it was.

fastcat99
05/07/2011, 02:05
This article made me happy. Then, realizing I don't have these pieces made me sad. Then, reading that the LE is not that great made me happy. Then, realizing I don't have the SR made me sad. Then, I realized I don't like the paint job on the SR so that made me happy, then I realized I liked the paint job on the LE, so that made me sad. Then I realized he has BCF with his HS clicks, so that made me happy. Then I remembered I always roll a 1 or 2 on BCF so that made me sad. Then, I realized the LE had stealth and CR so I was happy, then I realized they nerfed stealth just a little, so I was sad. Then I realized he could be paired with a hooker bomb, so I was happy. Then I realized I don't have the SR or the LE, but I was still happy, because who doesn't like hookers?

iMaraud
05/07/2011, 02:43
I had the LE but I traded it away and nabbed myself the SR. I like using the SR because of his aggressiveness it fits my plsy style, plus he works well with my GSX SR Hulk! Stleath just isn't all that it's cracked up to be anymore. I will say I am a fan of both sculpts though.

The_Sound_Of_Animals
05/07/2011, 05:34
good article, will we be happy or sad with the review next week? ;)

cattmoe
05/07/2011, 10:11
I think the LE has a lot of potential... I'm planning on running him today, actually.

In the vacuum of comparing the two, yeah, the SR is probably a little more playable. But when you take into account other factors - for example, X-Force Wolverine. If I'm reading his leadership power right, he could theoretically remove two tokens (one for regular leadership and one for the special power.) If Archangel has already pushed carrying Wolverine up, he's now on his HSS clicks with no tokens ready to rock someone, plus Wolverine may be in position to hit as well. Granted, it relies heavily on that leadershp roll, but still...

DroppinSuga
05/07/2011, 10:41
Best retelling of Archangel's back story I've ever heard.

Crazy Bee
05/07/2011, 10:55
Nice review as always. Arch/Angel is maybe my favorite X-man.

The LE Archangel does indeed fall secondary to the SR for the more aggressive minded players. BUT, the LE has a few nice tricks and is more suited for moble blocking terrain with the stealth and he makes a good tie up piece with the slightly better def numbers on clix 2,4 and 8.

X-Force has many pieces that are more aggressive, the LE works well to position them where they will be most effective

What I'm getting at is while the LE is second place to the SR, they are both still great pieces in their own right.

Now how do they stack up against M&M 34 Archangel. ^_^

Geof-Force
05/07/2011, 11:45
I respectfully disagree with some of your points. The LE is 13 points cheaper, giving way to more options for building. In X-teams, that makes many points makes a lot of difference. TKing an object into him is unreliable. For one, not every team will have that option. For another, you still have to hit an 18 (17+hindering). And if somebody hits, it just puts him in the "butter" clicks, as you eloquently put it. Furthermore, the X-TA makes him much more viable in X-men/X-Force teams which will always have GSX Cyclops/WoS Wolverine (unless the player is feeling adventurous). Finally, your biased opinion on Support obviously skews your judgment of its usefulness; its called an "option". Considering the LE also has stealth to protect him in that click, a player gets a choice of taking a chance at Regen or supporting a teammate who has a better tactical position than himself at that point in the game and doesn't want to take a chance at rolling a 5-6 on the X-men TA. The LE is also not saddled with BF, which, after the changes, is still more liability than benefit.

Yes, there are losses in terms of being an easier piece to use, but the LE has better tactical options. It's a thinking man's piece rather than the being a brute attacker.

Geof-Force
05/07/2011, 11:45
double post

Clickin'nutz!
05/07/2011, 12:01
An excellent review and I completely agree. I like the Le AA but to me he is more of a fun piece to play. The SR just has more going for him, and yes he is 13 points more but as you said more move and attack, and he is a stronger attacker (especially if you ko some opponents first).

PONX
05/07/2011, 12:35
sucker for X-force and the lower points. I've played against the SR and had difficulty but outwits from a 37 point fig proved to be his down fall.

Widowmaker03
05/07/2011, 13:07
13 points cheaper AND he has the x-men team ability? I think you made the wrong choice, the LE is one of the best taxi's Cyclops could ask for. Or Wolverine.

86 points for a taxi is not what I would call a good investment... That is nearly a third of your points to carry around another third that... lets face it cyclops is not a primary anything for a team, the only thing he can do is make x-men a better healing group (really only a good thing for larger format games).

SR Archangel is much better IMO and has that wonderful plus everything for the turn that stuff gets killed. Just make sure you always attack with him last for maximum benefit.

Lastclick
05/07/2011, 14:53
I played wos deadpool,x-23,gsx wolvie,psylocke,archangel. Against the xforce wolvie and gsx le's. I beat them easily. Just sayin.

Owlman
05/07/2011, 15:17
I played wos deadpool,x-23,gsx wolvie,psylocke,archangel. Against the xforce wolvie and gsx le's. I beat them easily. Just sayin.

It's fair to note, however, you had tk and move-and-attack options to start with. Your opponent lacked those, so the game was already stacked in your favor in that regard.

spider_ham
05/07/2011, 15:31
SR Archangel wins, hands down. As long as he's not adjacent to an opposing character, the SR can use HSS on every click. The LE is very good, but is more effective on an X-Force theme.

Vampirism is the LE's only logical solution for Steal Energy, but raises his point value to 98 and doesn't increase his overall effectiveness; this isn't an option in Modern Age games.

ComicJunkie
05/07/2011, 19:02
Minor Correction: Archangel beheaded Cameron Hodge, who was leader of the R.I.G.H.T., not the MLF (which was Stryfe and later Reignfire). The decapitation was hardly effective cuz Hodge went on to rule Genosha as a cyborg before dying again, being raised as part of the phalanx, dying again, and being raised again by Bastion in the most recent X-Force's initial arc. Hodge was also the original backer for X-Factor and Warren's best friend, thus the pertinence to properly identifying who was decapitated.

I honestly like both figures and can see how many think the SR outshines the LE. I also think that flyers with Stealth are few and far between and with the changes to wildcards, even rarer. The stealth almost forces close combat (tk and triangular lof is easier to avoid than reg lof imho) forcing a swing on a 19 def that even Nightcrawler has trouble with. The TA also increases playability as you are levied some control on getting to the sweet spot if you so desire. The SR feels more accurate and can be played well with little to no skill, but the LE works better thematically, providing cover and maneuverability for weenie-tot x-men teams.

I say go with the LE when you play X-Force. Play the SR when playing X-Factor and Horsemen. When playing X-Men, hold off until the rest of your build is there and decide based on what role you need filled, evasive taxi or brick-buster.

Deathblossom
05/07/2011, 22:27
sucker for X-force and the lower points. I've played against the SR and had difficulty but outwits from a 37 point fig proved to be his down fall.

Yeah, because AA The Question makes every non-Power Cosmic piece in the game pointless. :rolleyes:

frowninresponse
05/08/2011, 00:45
Having played with both, I agree with most of the mob's sentiments. LE for an X-Force team, SR for anything else.

Lastclick
05/08/2011, 01:23
It's fair to note, however, you had tk and move-and-attack options to start with. Your opponent lacked those, so the game was already stacked in your favor in that regard.

True. It was fun to use the new rules to have my stealthed psylocke tk objects at his stealthed figs.:) Rip objects out from under them hit them with it. Then have archangel use running shot /w PPB or wolvie charge in with bcf. It was the first time playing the archangel SR and I found him to be great. That shape change rolls **if you make them** can just throw your opponents plans to ruin. Thats what makes the archangel SR the better choice IMO. The LE is great but I like the unpredictability shape change offers the SR.

Quip
05/08/2011, 01:36
The LE Archangel is banging a hot psychic ninja girl.

I think he wins.

zenubs
05/08/2011, 02:31
the le also blocks lines of attack with a 19 def once they do base, and once they do 3 or 4 dmg, he hypersonics away for bfc, the sr gets close to get killed... 6 range is not great when you have no damage reducer or willpower to get out. both are good. just depends on the situation.

Shield001
05/08/2011, 02:33
I think they both have their uses.

The LE has more limited uses.

The support is to represent his blood being able heal people I think.

It has to appear late dial cause thats when he has been beaten down and well..bleeding :laugh:


Archangel is one of my fave marvel characters and I love both of these figs so much. I have been waiting since clix started to have a GOOD metal wings Archangel and now I have 2 :cool:

frowninresponse
05/08/2011, 14:32
The LE Archangel is banging a hot psychic ninja girl.

I think he wins.

Never thought of it that way. I guess the LE is cooler than the SR.

Lucy in the sky
05/08/2011, 22:54
Keep up the good work!

cattmoe
05/08/2011, 23:07
Ok, I ran an X-force team this weekend with the LE and he was pretty good. Pairing him with Wolverine so his leadership can remove tokens is huge, plus you can push to get Archangel to his HSS clicks and heal him with Wolverine (who in turn heals.)

That sounds complicated, but it worked pretty well. I was getting lucky on my leadership rolls, though. :laugh:

redgears
05/08/2011, 23:42
THis was a great and really helpful! We need more original content like this!

GuideOn187
05/09/2011, 00:29
I think the le is great hyper is way better than move and attack and im not sure if this is a 100% accurate but when you pair him with WoS wolvie
brutal leader allows you to take 2 tokens off and click him down to hyper usually at a time when the opponent is pushed my only complaint is his attack values but for his points hes incredible.

Soferiel
05/09/2011, 00:44
I just have to add that the SR is great, when I play it he automatically earns the "first attack target title" coming from my opponents, it's kind of one of the most hated ones that I own!!!

GroovyBoy
05/09/2011, 02:54
Yes, there are losses in terms of being an easier piece to use, but the LE has better tactical options. It's a thinking man's piece rather than the being a brute attacker.

I'm not really seeing the better tactical options. I am, however, seeing less tactical options. And "a thinking man's piece" = "an inferior figure you have to work with harder to get the same amount from"...

GroovyBoy
05/09/2011, 02:55
Having played with both, I agree with most of the mob's sentiments. LE for an X-Force team, SR for anything else.

Succinct and 100% accurate. Unless, for some reason, you're down to your final decision and only have 86 points instead of 99...

clameire
05/09/2011, 07:08
13 points cheaper AND he has the x-men team ability? I think you made the wrong choice, the LE is one of the best taxi's Cyclops could ask for. Or Wolverine.

I strongly agree with this.
LE over SR anytime for me.
The LE is just the BEST WARREN we had yet
I admit both are nice, and both have their use. But i will always use the x-men TA and x-men themed teams when i can so... yeah, for me there is no doubt about which to choose.

The_Sound_Of_Animals
05/09/2011, 11:50
I like X-Force so I play the LE more than the SR. If I get the rest of the LE's from the conventions it may change.

catherine
05/09/2011, 11:53
I have generally been playing the LE over the SR, though before now I have not looked at their dials in a side-by-side comparison. Altogether, the SR does bring a nicer set of numbers and abilities. I was previously unaware of such a discrepancy. However, when it comes to choosing which to play, I only use theme teams. So the SR is the only choice when it comes to X-Factor, and the LE in regards to X-Force. The only decision applies when it comes to X-Men. Given that any X-Men team of mine is centered around Cyclops' trait and good ol' Nightcrawler, the X-Men TA having-, not needing move and attack so much-LE Archangel will remain that teams metal-winged man.

BLACKHEART25
05/09/2011, 11:58
I'm not really seeing the better tactical options. I am, however, seeing less tactical options. And "a thinking man's piece" = "an inferior figure you have to work with harder to get the same amount from"...

I'm definetly not seeing that. I've played against the SR plenty of times and found him pretty easy to defeat if you just engage him, something that doesn't work so well with the LE. I can totally see the LE engaging other characters as a great tie-up piece and if they manage to hit he can move on to Hypersonic goodness.

Bat-Phreak
05/09/2011, 13:38
Even though Stealth has been weakened with the new TK rules, as mentioned previously not all teams you face will have TK.

For 13-pts less, Stealth, and the X-Men TA, I would prefer the LE over the SR.

kujonomore
05/09/2011, 13:52
I just wish the SR also had the x-force keyword, only because I don't have the LE ...and... I like the SR dial better too.

ol_Dut
05/09/2011, 15:09
Even though Stealth has been weakened with the new TK rules, as mentioned previously not all teams you face will have TK.



Are you sure? Where do you play at? I have yet to see any constructed tourney team without TK. Or multiple PCs and Outwit for that matter. If that isn't your experience, consider yourself lucky!

GroovyBoy
05/09/2011, 18:19
I'm definetly not seeing that. I've played against the SR plenty of times and found him pretty easy to defeat if you just engage him, something that doesn't work so well with the LE. I can totally see the LE engaging other characters as a great tie-up piece and if they manage to hit he can move on to Hypersonic goodness.

So basically your one tactic with the LE is get into close combat and get hit into HSS/BCF, because you sure aren't gonna get a whole lot outta hide in Stealth and hit people from 4 range.

I'm sorry, but the SR is much more versatile than that...

BLACKHEART25
05/10/2011, 03:06
So basically your one tactic with the LE is get into close combat and get hit into HSS/BCF, because you sure aren't gonna get a whole lot outta hide in Stealth and hit people from 4 range.

I'm sorry, but the SR is much more versatile than that...

I'm not hatin' on the other Angel's versatility. Hes certainly easier to play with, but hes still free points after his initial shot if you're aggresive player. He practically has to come to you to shoot so its no big deal to get in his face and beat him like I've done many times already.

The point isn't to get hit into hypersonic. Le is a bit more versatile than that. He works as a great tie up piece (something the SR cannot do) and if he gets hit (and thats a big if depending on the attack stats) he can go into Hypersonic which is pretty good with blades. Not to mention his X-men TA can control what clicks you can or can't get. Otherwise you quake people and wittle them down while they either break away or try for a hard hit. Thats what being a team player is all about.

Also regarding the TK talk, TK is one of the latest powers that actually get in the game. The TKer is usually Tking something around their starting area then slowly come up later on in the battle. Not to mention they have to have objects strategically placed to do anything anyway. Bottom line: TK vs stealth isn't as one sided and the end of all that some seem to think it is.

GroovyBoy
05/10/2011, 18:40
I'm not hatin' on the other Angel's versatility. Hes certainly easier to play with, but hes still free points after his initial shot if you're aggresive player.

The exact same thing can be said about the LE

He practically has to come to you to shoot so its no big deal to get in his face and beat him like I've done many times already.

Because his 6 range is less than the LE's 4? Or were you referring to the move-and-attack, where he can then hide behind other characters or hindering?

The point isn't to get hit into hypersonic. Le is a bit more versatile than that. He works as a great tie up piece (something the SR cannot do) and if he gets hit (and thats a big if depending on the attack stats)

Like the SR getting hit from range with its ESD? Yeah, you keep talking about getting in the SR's face, but a competent player doesn't just set that up for you.

he can go into Hypersonic which is pretty good with blades.

Okay, so you seem to dismiss the SR's late-dial Steal Energy and BCF (not even mentioning them) because "an aggressive player" can take him out easily. Um, you think an aggressive player is just gonna attack the LE once to put him on HSS/BCF?

Not to mention his X-men TA can control what clicks you can or can't get.

If you get the time...

Otherwise you quake people and wittle them down while they either break away or try for a hard hit. Thats what being a team player is all about.

Also regarding the TK talk, TK is one of the latest powers that actually get in the game. The TKer is usually Tking something around their starting area then slowly come up later on in the battle. Not to mention they have to have objects strategically placed to do anything anyway. Bottom line: TK vs stealth isn't as one sided and the end of all that some seem to think it is.

It still trumps the LE trying to ping from Stealth at a 4 range.

Look, it's not that you're wrong. I'm just more right...

MegaLotusMan
05/10/2011, 19:04
First let me say I LOVE Archangel as a character. And if the SR was not sooo freaking amazing(and it is) i would use the LE instead... all be it less.

The SR is better than the LE by miles, at least competitively.
The fact is in heroclix, any character that requires a more than a click or in extreme cases 2 clicks of damage to be dealt to them before they are 'good'. Is a bad recipe.

When a character needs to be 'hit' to get to their good clicks, its more likely than not that they will never see them. Because your opponent knows about them to and gets to choose when and where they see those clicks. And may not be exposed to them untill they are good and ready.

Same thing with the Cable LE, any of the new Wolverines(with Regen trait), just about any Hulk. You just don't hit them until you know you can kill them. Or you know you can hit them past their prime. Or just hit them onto their good stuff, and promply outwit it before you can use it.
You have no control over it, your opponent does and you will be disappointed to see him go down without being cool, nearly every time.

He's still not bad, he's just not great. If his top click was not plagued with 9 attack(which i consider uncompetitive in any attack piece), I would have fielded him a time or too anyway even when I might've used the SR. Especially on X-Force teams.

Characters who pull off needing to be 'hit' well arn't bad though. The Cable LE may never see his HSS clicks. But he's good and dangerous even if he never does. And if he does, whoooooooooooooooooo

scarecrow826
05/11/2011, 00:06
Best retelling of Archangel's back story I've ever heard.

This. Great article, Ol_Dut! I'm sorry I doubted you before(but I doubt you even noticed).

BLACKHEART25
05/11/2011, 20:57
It still trumps the LE trying to ping from Stealth at a 4 range.

Look, it's not that you're wrong. I'm just more right...


LOL. You're groovy indeed.

To address those points that you made to me:

1. The LE is hard to hit. I'm not understanding why you think hes easy points like I said about the other one. He has defense vs. ranged and close combat attacks. He can't hit for crap, but there are plenty of ways to overcome that.

2/3. What I meant with my second point was that most people I've played that has used him, used his runningshot attack to use the psychic blast. From there even someone with low movement can get in his face, which is the SRs weakness.....why would anyone bother shooting from range when its much easier to engage him? Which negates his Hypersonic-lite. I also don't see why you think its tough to set him up. He gets about as good as an attack as the LE using Hypersonic-lite.

4. You're right I didn't mention the B/C/F and steal energy. They're both very good powers for him that the LE doesn't have. Still, late dial incapacitate isn't that bad and I like the stealth/healing combination that gets him back in the game.

LE shouldn't be shooting at anyone unless you're set up that way. I wouldn't play him to shoot characters because hes not that type of character until the end game.

LOL on that last comment. It just depends on what fig you wanna reach for as they do entirely different things......and no this doesn't mean that you're more right than me.

GroovyBoy
05/11/2011, 21:50
LOL on that last comment. It just depends on what fig you wanna reach for as they do entirely different things......and no this doesn't mean that you're more right than me.

It was the best way I could think of to say, "I am the victor!" without sounding like a complete tool...