View Full Version : surfer stats
hey guys i could use your help, i created a SS fig but wanted help in fine tuning the dial so far i have him with
14 13 12 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 7 HS first 2 then RS for next 3
15 14 14 13 13 13 12 11 10 9 8
18 17 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 12 INV first 5 Tough for 5 REG last
4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 2
also what wuld his overall point cost be?
panther_king
03/16/2003, 21:49
Over all, the values would work out great, but there is some fine tuning to do
First, too many clicks of health. as the fig stands, he would top out around 300-350. the incredibly high numbers on his stats just make him astronomically expensive. If I were going to do a surfer figure, I'd try to do him down around under 200... I could at least PLAY him then.
Second, the attack is WAAAAYY to high. I mean, he is a helard of galactus, and a celestial being and all, but those attack values are WAY to consistant, and stay too high for too long for the fig to be fair. (Yes, I know Thanos has the same, but he also doesn;t have HSS and running shot)
I would think a 14 or so movement is very fair though, and with a *little* fine tuning, it would be better, but I think you pretty much nailed it.
Defense wise, I would agree on most parts, though with his abilities, it makes him a little too much. I can see you modelled these stats after Thanos mostly (almost exactly actually, with a little reshufling) and I dont quite think it's fair. For them to be exactly the same doesn't really reflect Silver Surfers abilities or strength, just makes him a copy of Thanos, with more abilities.
In my opinion, I think the following would do him justice:
14 13 11 10 10 8 8 7 7
13 12 11 10 10 9 9 8 8
17 16 16 15 15 13 12 11 11
3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2
The last two clicks on defense being regen, and the last two in damage being support (bah, no yellow). YES, I know that regen and support are on the same clicks, but part of surfer's character was that, during the crucial end points of the battle, he would sometimes sacrifice himself to same another, or push himself on further, in hopes of saving them. So I thought making the choice would be a good representation. With those stats, I'm pretty sure he'd be more around 200 (I hope), though admittedly, there are more abilities, he'd be more in line with the game (and still with the comics). Though, I still think he's a little over-powered, even then.
Thanks for the input though i'm not sure how EE fits in or RCE, wouldnt it be better to raise his DV rather than RCE, and comic wise how strong is the SS compared to other Characters IE Hulk, Thing etc...
panther_king
03/16/2003, 22:20
I put EE in there to display his use of energy projection. RCE is there to give him that 5 possible damage click that seems to be a trand in the celestial powered characters in heroclix (Thanos, Firelord).
As for his pure strength, he may very well be strong as the thing or the hulk even, but rarely did I ever see him go flat out toe to toe as a corner stone of his fighting style. I'd like to emphasize him zipping around on his surf board, rather than running in and getting tied up (once he lost his HSS) in close combat (though I'm sure he'd do just fine).
I think his DV is in line. Like I said, I see him zipping around the field, so his INV while he has HSS makes him an unlikely target for alot of characters who could do more damage than his INV would soak up. The characters who could break that (most of the RCE figs) would possibly put him into his Energy Shield/Deflection clicks, which keep his defense for his first 6 clicks at 15 - 17. That is pretty #### good if you ask me.
I'm just trying to make a playable Surfer, not a godly one. I just didn't think your first incarnation is really fairly playable. But its not like these are real stats. Just take what I put and change them around a bit. Maybe it was just the idea of using Thanos' exact stats that kind of got to me. Just Thanos has great DV, but all he really has power wise (his fig at least) is Inv and toughness.
Surfer I felt should have abilities more representative of him running around the board are shooting people down, using his support/regen when things got hairy, and his hypersonic speed/running to head into combat, and keep mobile. Thanos is just played as a combat animal, and he really isn't as versitile as I viewed Silver Surfer to be.
does anyone know where his stats would leave him valued at? both the original and the new ones posted?
I Am The Game
03/16/2003, 23:35
SciFiGuy's spreadsheat gives these numbers...
the original posting, with one lightning bolt at range 8 gives 187 points, 198 as a Defender.
the revised posting with one lightning bolt at range 8 gives 141 points, 153 as a Defender.
Now, my opinions... only one click of hypersonic, I'd say. He usually adjusts his strategy when he gets nailed. His attack values should start above average, and plummet. How many times have we seen him rolling around on the ground after getting busted?
I'd make my own stats, but it's too much trouble! :P
where would i get this spreadsheet?
wouldnt he be better off with more Hs since he usually hits and keeps going? anyone else wanna help me out here, i'd like to represent the firure right. and im not exactly the most up to date on the character.
wouldnt he be better off with more Hs since he usually hits and keeps going? anyone else wanna help me out here, i'd like to represent the firure right. and im not exactly the most up to date on the character.
i would also drop the regen....i mean, this guy is more than powerful enough, but giving him regen is just like having a firelord out there that doesnt even need a medic. Just my opinion
Thanosied
03/17/2003, 03:39
The real deal would look a little like this:
He could have EE and SS but he doesn't really do that stuff so. Remember when he worked for Galactus he would blast planets from the atmosphere.
12 Range, 2 Targets, Flying, No Team affiliation, Unique
13 Hypersonic Speed
13
19 Defend
4 Ranged Combat Expert
12 Hypersonic Speed
12
18 Invulnerability
3 Ranged Combat expert
11 Running Shot
12
18 Invulnerability
3 Ranged Combat Expert
10 Running Shot
11
17 Invulnerability
3 Ranged Combat Expert
10 Running Shot
10
16 Invulnerability
2 Ranged Combat Expert
9
10
15 Invulnerability
2 Ranged Combat Expert
9
9
15 Toughness
3
8
8
14 Toughness
2 Support
8
8
14 Toughness
2 Support
7
7
13 Regeneration
1
I Am The Game
03/17/2003, 11:03
What's all this about regeneration? I remember him healing others, but never himself. Where did you see this happen? He soaks up cosmic radiation to power himself, but that's a slow process.
I don't like Thanoseid's stats, not because they don't sound good, but because they make him the toughest character in the Marvel Universe. Too many clicks of invulnerability. I've been in this argument before... just 'cause he can survive the rigors of space doesn't mean a good fist in the face doesn't hurt him. Attack too high... he's a pacifist, not a raging warrior like Thanos.
I also figure to see R/E/V versions of Norrin. FF 48 is a long way back.
pacifist or not his AV only represents that if he did attack how likely is he to hit somebody, (not how likely he is to attack) and why wouldnt he be the most powerful clix (regular size) in the MU?
is this a better representation
14 13 12 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 first 3 HSS next 3 RS
11 10 10 13 12 11 10 9 8 7
19 18 18 17 16 16 15 15 14 13 1st DEF Next 5 INV next 3 TOUGH
3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 First 6 RCE 8th&9th clix Spport
wait a minute, if i gave surfer a 19 with defend does that mean he could carry cyke around and he would have a 21 def becuase of DEF with ESD? cuz that wouldn't be right
Dormammu
03/18/2003, 12:35
Here's a 355 point Surfer I made up, which IS beatable and reflective of the comic. Yes, he's a lot of points, but then we play with home rules for a 1400 point Galactus using the Toybiz figure and home rules for Apoclypse, so here goes:
Range is U for unlimited. One attack per turn.
Speed: 36 on 11 clix, running shot on first 7 clix
This ridiculous speed reflects his speed within a planet's gravity.
Attack: 10 for 1st 7 clix, 9 on next 2, then step down to an 8 and 7, Energy Explosion on first 8 clix.
Defense: 17, 17, 17, 16, 16, 15, 15, 14, 14, 13, 13
Invulnerability starting on first clix of 16 and lasting to end of dial
Damage: 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1
RCE first 3 clix, Support next 3 clix, RCE Next, Support, RCE, Support, REC
17 means he can be hit 50% of time by any character with attack of 10, and after first 3 clix characters with attack of 9 come into play, etc.
I think defense of 19 with no extra abilities is ok, but it also means only characters with 12+ attack will be a serious threat, which is why I lowered him to 17, so more characters can come into play sooner, making him strong but vulnerable.
Dormammu
03/18/2003, 12:39
Hey Kdog13, with a defense of 21 you would need characters with attacks of 14 to have a 50% chance to hit him. How many of those are out there?
i kinda went in a diff direction i gave him
14 13 12 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 HSS first3 RS next 3
11 10 10 13 12 11 10 9 8 7
19 18 18 17 16 16 15 15 14 13 SUP 1st E/S next2 INV next 3 Toughness for 3 and REG on last
3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 RCE first 6 Support clix 8 and 9
I left his attack low on the first couple so people would play him more surfer like and just shoot and not use the HSS close combat attack, though unlikely with a 3DV and RCE. and then it came up when RS came into play after all he's more likely to hit a target if not moving. and i kep the damage not to high again so he'd be played the way he is portrayed. flying around shooting from his board. def im sure is self explanitory
Lonehawk
03/18/2003, 14:04
I posted up this version a few weeks ago on another thread.
Silver Surfer - range 10, 1 arrow, Unique
SPEED 16 14 13 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 (RS for4, charge for 4)
ATTACK 11 10 9 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 (EE for 6, INC for 2)
DEFENSE 18 18 17 16 16 15 15 14 14 13 (INV for 1, TOU for 7)
DAMAGE 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 (RCE for 1, ENH on 3 & 4, SUP on 6-8)
all for an approximate cost of 190 points.
Notes:
1) for game balance range was restricted to 10 and a single arrow - with running shot this gives him a range of 18 on turn 1 so he still can't hit from setup (unless you are so cheesy that you taxi or TK him)
2) No hypersonic speed - do you have any idea how much he would cost with it? Also I've always viewed him attacking at range, and RS is more fitting. Anyway - SS can't go at lightspeed in the atmosphere without doing bad things to anyone standing nearby. Just let him fly fast.
3) 1 click of RCE for 6 damage, but desn't work with running shot.
4) No super strength ( but decent damage). SS is a ranged attacker and EE seemed more appropriate.
This is just my view based on (old) memories I what I think he used to do.
no, thanks, i see what you were trying to do with him, but wasn't the surfer always on the move he just buzzed around and fired energy at enemies while forever moving, i thought HSS youd more examplify this even if it did cost more
SHERFMAN
03/18/2003, 14:28
i think guys like surfer, thanos, superman, hulk, thor, and all other mega-powers should have more then one dial. like take a flight dial and put another dial on top and that way the fig could have up to 23 clix of health. then the true powers could be displayed. also they should make a new team ability that grants willpower, like an infinity watch team power. all mega-powers should be easily 200 pts or higher.
thats not as bad idea, except changing dials would suck, couldnt regenration fix that. (whether the character has it or not)maybe a team abiltiy that doesnt subtract 2 from the roll. or just special rules like sentenial
Melkoloran
03/18/2003, 22:15
355 points is a hell of a lot of points for one fig ;)
355 i got him down to 200 with RCE HSS IMPERVIOUS TOUGNESS SUPPORT DEFEND ES/D and the last 2 clicks are 2 damge the lowest he is the whole 11 click dial
Skullfire
03/25/2003, 22:19
Hey Dormammu, if you think that a 21 defense is bad you ought to see a custom Parallex I saw. It had a 22 defense with Impervious. Now that is had to hurt.
I made a Silver Surfer Myself, and I had a hard time keeping him realistic, because he is my favorite character of all time. I didn't give him HSS because that skill is supposed to represent the ability to Attack incredibly fast from close range or distance, too. Surfer normally only attacks from range while on his board, so I only gave him running shot on movement. I didn't give him any powers on attack, because Surfer usually uses finesse with his powers as opposed to all out attack. I gave him Invulnerability for the first four clicks, toughness for the next three, ES/D for the 2 after that, and ends it with 1 click of Willpower, and nothing on his last click. He has no powers on damage except for 2 clicks of support at the end. His stats are as follows:
12, 11, 10, 9, 9, 8, 8, 7, 7, 6, 5 W/ RS on first 4 Clicks
12, 11, 10, 10, 9, 9, 8, 8, 7, 7, 6 on attack w/0 powers
17, 16, 16, 15, 16, 15, 14, 15, 14, 14, 12 on defense with Invulnerability on first 4 clicks, toughness on next 3, ES/D on following 2, and 1 click of willpower on 2nd to last click.
4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1 on damage w/ support on last 2.
I have a dial generator that is incredibly accurate with about a 5 or 6 point margin of error that says these powers and combinations would make Surfer about 215 points. I have NEARLY every comic Surfer has ever been in and have read them quite extensively, so I consider myself pretty much an expert. Everybody let me know what you think.
i gave HSS only with a lower attack value so he wouldnt use the close combat version of the power. that way he can shoot will moving on his board and keep going like in the comics
I also didn't give him HSS because it is just WAY too expensive to use, and I actually like to use my characters in a realistic game. BELIEVE me, I WANTED to give him HSS, but sacrifices sometimes have to be made.
mines got 6 clix of HSS and comes in at 200 pts
The System that I have to figure out a character's points is more accurate, I find, than most of the dial generators out there. It has been tested on every character made, and it is only off by 3 or 4 points on any character. It is dead on for the majority of the characters. My Surfer also has a 12 range attack, has invulnerability for 4 clicks, and no enhance. He also stays alive for one more click, so we are nearly on the same page, but still, Something's wrong with your dial generator, if, based on the fact that you gave him HSS for 6 clix and he's only 200 points, you shouldn't have as many other powers that you gave him.
depends on how much and where i uesed it, but according to the thre dial generators i have it came out between 189 to 218 so i called it 200 even, hell if firelords 99 my surfers gonna be 200 even if it is 18 points to low
TheEnigma
04/02/2003, 12:02
SLVRSR4:
What method do you use for calaculating costs? Any chance you'd like to share it? I've got an archive of the rest of the dial gens out there on my site, and am anxiously awaiting Retardog's new formula, but I'd love to see yours...
Here's the Surfer dial I made:
http://users.zoominternet.net/~emperordalek/stats.htm#surfer
I didn't use a formula for his point cost; I just sort of eyeballed it based on other figures, namely OWAW Supes. But if anybody wants to plug the stats I used into a formula, feel free to do so.
I thought that giving him incapacitate up front and support towards the middle was the best way to have him as powerful but merciful. And that first click with outwit just represents him knocking someone out before they know what hit 'em.
brendanbrown
04/02/2003, 15:44
my version goes like this
14 14 13 13 13 12 11 11 11 10 9 KO RS on 1st 3, FB on next 2, HSS on next 2
14 13 13 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 8 KO EE on first 4, INc on next 4, then SS on next 2
18 18 17 16 16 16 16 16 16 15 15 KO IMP on 1st 3, INV on next 2, ESD on next 2, Toughness,regen,toughness willpower
5 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 KO nothing on first 3, RCE on next 2, outwit on next 2, support on next 2.
i made it so the powers fit together pretty well.. forceblast will take care of anyone adjacent to him, then he can smack them with rce (if there are 2 adjacent he cant make a range comat attack regardless of hovering) then the hss/outwit/esd for when he gets defensive. and the regeneration can put him back to his first click of inc and last click of rce/forceblast. and lets face it, he needed willpower. i have no idea what his point cost will be, but i would play him no matter what, so someone get back to me with it please! i cant find a site that will work.
Mayberry Bat
04/02/2003, 16:19
MrPopo, I came up with 264 points using Enigma/retardog's spreadsheet and formulas.
264, eh? Guess I wasn't that far off. I didn't go over, so on The Price Is Right, I'd still be doing okay. I'd still use him at 264, but I suspect other people might not. Maybe I should ditch the outwit and just give him psychic blast on the first click, or only give him one arrow... ah, never mind, I could tweak that thing all day.
go with one arrow, and why does he have outwit. because of how many opponents he's out thought??? i dont get it
spiderboy
04/02/2003, 22:44
I see powers everywhere. Outwit,Regeneration,incapacitate... Cmon! I might not be a silver surfer fan but i think i know him well enough to know he shouldnt have those powers. He should have HS on his 1st click and Running Shot for another 2 clicks in my opinion. Invulnerability for the 1st 3 clicks and toughness for the next few. Finally, he should have support and will power on his last 2 clicks respectively and thats it. Maybe RCE for 2 clicks can be thrown in somewhere.
he should RCE the whole way becasue he uses his cosmic power in a way of firing blasts which are more damage causing than his ahnd to hand. not because he is an expert marksman but because his energy blasts cause more damage than his hand to hand. plus doesnt he move at the speed of light? doesnt that warrant more than one click of HSS. not to perform the close range attack but becasue when he battles he always keeps surfing while blasting away. though INC outwit, and REG shouldnt be there
spiderboy
04/02/2003, 22:55
Yeah, But putting too much RCE and HSS would make him very costly. I know he is the herald of Galactus and he is that powerfull but i think a weaker version of him would be nicer. Whats the point of thinking up all these high stats and so much power when in the end, you cant play him cause no one in Heroclix Lala land can bring him down? He needs to be toned down a bit.
not if you limit the inv and tough and go with more ES/D then he wont cost much, still prob between 200-225 pts but at least he's playable in the bigger games, same as thanos or Doom and thor, just make him hard to hit with range since he is always moving in the comics
Maybe I didn't say it before, but the way I see it, he would have outwit to represent him using the Power Cosmic to neutralize his opponent's defenses. It doesn't necessarily mean that he's actually using his wits, but the effect is the same. But psychic blast could probably do the same, so I may rethink it.
how bout not giving him the power and up his damage value that way toughness and inv dont affect it as much, and you keep his cost down.
brendanbrown
04/03/2003, 16:55
kdog, good explanation on the rce, i hadnt thought of that,
i dont think he should have hypersonic speed because the only thing that represents him in that is the ability to shoot and keep moving. he doesnt hit people consecutively in one action, and he shouldnt be able to move in and out of b2b freely i dont think. therefore just give him more running shot. give him a high speed value, not HSS. and i dont know about incapacitate, except in the issue when he was fighting the rhino on earth, he kept doing things so the rhino couldnt get at him, (thats one of the only real battle issue i have that isnt thanos or the eternals or some cosmic force). so ditch the inc, and as we've all seen from boom boom, EE is a fairly inexpensive power, so give him that for a good portion of his dial, paired with some Super strength, even though he's not the kind of fighter to pick something up and hit someone with it, so only one or 2 clix of that.
so it should be something like this
14 14 13 13 13 12 11 11 11 10 9 KO RS on 1st 5, FB on next 3,
14 13 13 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 8 KO EE on first 7, then SS on next 2
18 18 17 16 16 16 16 16 16 15 15 KO IMP on 1st 3, INV on next 2, ESD on next 2, Toughness,regen,toughness willpower
5 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 KO nothing on first 2, RCE on next 3, outwit on next 2, support on next 2.
if you keep his attack value lower, though we all no it should be one of, if not the highest, but keep it constant like start at 10 and 8 or 7 the lowest or 11 the highest , whatever. and play him with HSS no ones gonna play him to do consecutive shots with HSS because the attack value wont get enough when you could do a 5 or 4 damage with RCE.
Very interesting that I havent been on this site and there is another k-dog.:)
Just figured id post
Brian
thanks for posting?????????huh?
the surfer is powered by cosmic rays much like superman is powered by sunlight. If you check out the legendary silver surfer 48-50 and infinity gauntlet #1 you will see that the surfer and thanos had one hell of a battle. after he was fell to earth unconscious on doc strange's house, the good doc put him in sunlight and a couple of minutes later he was ok.
just because a power isn't used much doesn't mean it is not there. he deserves regeneration.
someone who falls the distance of the moon to the earth wouldn't just wake up and brush it off as he did. the hulk was unconscious for the remainder of the mini-series when he fell to counter-earth in the infinity crusade.
just some food for thought
The power cosmic would allow him to effectively nullify powers just as outwit would. He just rarely uses it because he outclasses most anybody else in a fight without having to cheapshot people. Galactus wasn't messing around when he turned norrin radd into the surfer.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.