Whatever happened to being mature? [Archive]

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 03:54

Why is that people can't discuss things on here in a mature fashion?

Why does every thread have to have 'X figure sucks' or 'X figure is poo' or 'X figure blows' or something similar in it?

If you don't like a figure for some reason why don't you say something along the lines of 'I don't like X figure for Y reason' or 'In my opinion, X figure isn't worth it for the points' .

Remember this are all just OPINIONS. Just because you think that X sucks, does not mean it sucks. It means that in your opinion it sucks. Your opinion is not fact.

Yes, I know I am ranting. It just gets to me at times. Reading through a lot of threads, it seems that the forum is popluated by a bunh of 13 year olds and I know it isn't.

And no, it is not EVERYONE who does it, I just get tired of seeing.

I'll stop ranting now.

To steal a line from Dennis Miller.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

farmer

03/17/2003, 04:05

I am SOOO glad to see a post like this (by the way, i posted something like this complimenting you in the LE thread). Anyways, it's just so great to see that there are some people around that can discuss things in an intellectual, yet mature fasion. I hope that this trend continues. Long live heroclix.

Ro-gan

03/17/2003, 04:09

Have to agree with you Dex.

I hate going through 4+ pages of a thread and having to read through the inane comments just to get to the serious and intelligent points for valid answers to serious questions.

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 04:09

I'll admit, I have my moments. This is especialy true when I get fustrated about seeing some things over and over again.

Especialy when it is along the lines of 'my favorite character wasn't made powerful enough'.

But I do try to moderate myself. :) I just fail at times. :)

The Stinger

03/17/2003, 07:32

CPUX

03/17/2003, 07:40

To all those who wish to complain about everything, would you like some cheese with that whine?

T_Darksoul

03/17/2003, 08:06

Dexceus you are correct and lucky so far.

I posted a thread very similar to this called The Vacuum that is HCRealms (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29277) and was blasted/attacked by the 3rd poster. But I was backed up by some people and have not heard from the person since.

Anyway I agree.:)

Draggor

03/17/2003, 08:11

Here, here. Agree 100 percent.

farmer

03/17/2003, 08:32

You know what......to tell you the truth, im goign to do my best to not respond to anyone that doesnt post on this thread (excluding azs and jonl of course) anyays, anyone that plays this game with integrity, please resond to this poll so we can seperte the a--holes from seriousls players that want to learn about the game and compete

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 08:36

Well, y'know, you are what you post.

This is the Internet, folks. All we are here -- to each other, at least -- is text on a screen.

Take Farmer, for example. I wouldn't know the guy if he bled to death on my front lawn. All I know about the guy who is Farmer is what I see here on my screen.

... and when this is all you give folks to see you by... all folks have to judge you, assess you, make decisions about you on... seems like one could pay pretty close attention to the impression one provides, no?

If only a matter of editing "dat sux, man," down to "I don't much like that figure, myself."

farmer

03/17/2003, 08:43

so doomtoy, what do you make of "farmer" just wondring, cuase im the type of guy that tries to make friends wherever i go, so since you used me in a thread just wondering what your impression of me is so far

Ian_Cormack

03/17/2003, 09:12

yean ... fun is fun

Mister X

03/17/2003, 09:19

Sadly the maturity level of a great many of the posters on ALL the Realms sites seems to be very low. I can't really tell if it's the result of age or lack of skill or taking the game too seriously or general disposition but it is a shame that so many resort to inane and insane attacks on the figures themselves or other players.

I do agree with Farmer that it might actually make the forums more interesting if people actually presented reasoned arguments about figures. If you are what you post, as Doomtoy points out, then people should fear for the HC community. Since so many posts are of the "Figure X sucks and so do you if you use him" variety, wouldn't you agree that that will at some point begin to drive people out of the game? I know that kind of attitude has definitely curtailed my playing and the time that I spend here on HC realms. I'm just sick of all the complaining that has no thought behind it. Constructive criticism is great, I'm all for it, but whining that you can't beat this combination or that figure without coming up with new ideas is just sad.

Hey, here's an idea for Typhon and Draddog for a new site:

How about WhinersRealms.com?

That way everyone who wants to complain can go do it there, and everyone who wants to have a rational discussion and to exchange gameplay ideas can do it at the other sites.

Just a thought.

EvilGenius

03/17/2003, 09:23

Amen Brother!

Unfortunately, I think that we, as a society are reaping what we have sown. We make very little effort, as a society, to elevate ourselves. We have also constructed a social pattern that is almost impossibly difficult to live in. The amount of time and effort required to make ends meet and pay all of your bills on time is more than many people (like me!) can handle.

And that means that most of us are completely OVER-stressed, psychologically speaking.

That makes it very difficult for us to be calm and rational about, well, almost anything. And comic books have ever incited passion in their fans .... :)

So I try to view all of the negativity with some forbearance. I honestly think that if you were able to talk to most of the "this sux" crowd face-to-face, calmly, it would be just fine.

But I have to admit, I usually just skip past those comments and try to see if there is anything of worth in a thread.

Oh, and this thread totally, like, sux, man! ;) I'm like, way stressed out, dude!

XocgX

03/17/2003, 09:43

CPUX,

What I love about your quote and that issue is that the 'lacky' who said it is actually Captain America....great ish!

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 09:47

But the forum IS populated by 13 year olds! Like Dr Doom said, it's a hard knock life all over :)

yogsoloth

03/17/2003, 09:56

Mister X has a good idea......why don't we start a new section called "complaints" or something like that......then none of us would ever have to read anything in it, saving our time and blood pressure.

AZS

03/17/2003, 10:01

This thread is poo.

hey, someone had to say it.

WadeDeadpool

03/17/2003, 10:14

A new section about complaints WOULD cut down on the #### I have to go through daily. Very good idea. I'm all for keeping the people who can't say three words of intelligent conversation giving out their badges of suckdom somewhere else. I don't want to sound eletist, but I usually try to place myself above that kind of talk.

Loganz

03/17/2003, 10:16

I agree, I am REALLY tired of getting on this site looking for a good discution about a game i love and reading nothing but #####ing and wineing. I don't think that half these people the start these complamt threads really think there argument throgh before they post it. And most of them don't even back up there opinons with solid arguments. At least there are threads like these that revitalize my faith in mankind;) .

XocgX

03/17/2003, 10:23

I think the reason you see so much immaturity is that some of the posters here are just big dumb poopy heads ;-)

Ok but seriously, most of us are in the 21+ range and more mature, but there are plenty of the younger crowd here, and (the funny thing is I just talked about this in my Sociology class) technically, anyone still living at home could be considered to still be an adolescent, and the level of maturity is a bit lower.

Add to that the fact that people will post things they wouldn't say in social conversation, and that in any crowd, 15% love you regardless, 15% hate you regardless and 70% need to be convinced to love you (or hate you!).

I think it's less then 15% who whine, etc, so we have a great crowd here!

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 10:28

Originally posted by azs
This thread is poo.

hey, someone had to say it.

1ST POST!

RavenProject

03/17/2003, 10:40

Well, if you have to post to this thread to be taken seriously I suppose I better do so...

As for the immaturity of certain posters... if you want some real fun, catch some of the posts that make it online for a couple hours before the Mods have their way with them. There were a couple delightful young men who decided to trash-talk one another in Neutral Ground early Saturday morning. When I came back a couple hours later the threads were gone.

After a decade (yeesh, I'm old...) of particpating in online discussion from DDials to Usenet to CompuServe forums to IRC to listservs to the Web, you learn to tune out the idiots more effectively. It becomes fairly easy to keep the signal-to-noise ratio down once you learn to identify threads as "problem areas."

-J

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 12:30

Re: Farmer's question: The fact that you stopped to post here speaks well of you, I think.

The Doomtoy family deals with a great many teenagers every day; Mrs Doomtoy and I both teach. She teaches English... and she often despairs at the kind of writing samples and essays she gets back from some of her students.

Basically, a lot of it falls into the Beavis And Butthead School Of Adjectives: A thing is cool... or it sucks. LOTS of people use that exact nomenclature, without variation, and without middle ground.

A thing is cool... or it sucks. Cool or sucks. Period.

There are gradiations, of course. Detention sucks, but it does not suck to the degree that being beaten to death with baseball bats would suck. Plainly, one sucks more than the other.

However, rather than use adjectives like, "Detention is a drag, but death by bludgeoning is downright horrific,"... many of her students would simply say, "Detention sucks, but bludgeoning would suck a lot. A whole lot. WAY lot."

It is this kind of thinking... and this kind of word use... that make "fourteen year old" and "moron" synonymous in a lot of people's minds. No, I am not saying 14 year olds are morons, but it's easy to get that picture when the only adjectives one seems to ever use are "sucks" and "cool."

Add that to the fact that writing can be a chore. We all know how to talk. Hell, we LIKE to talk. We can sit somewhere all evening, moving figures around, talking trash, and shooting the breeze...

...but in here... we have to WRITE. And writing is a chore for a lot of teeners. Ghod knows I have holy hell getting some of my students to give me a freakin' essay, much less think about what they're going to write in it. Every stinkin' time, I hear, "Well, how many words should it be?" And I answer, "As many words as you need to make your point."

...and when I do that, I get papers back where some dink wrote one extremely short sentence, with no argument to back up his point, and then wants to whine when I hand his grade back to him dripping with red ink.

So... is Dink an idiot?

Actually, no. I don't deal with many teeners that I would regard as all that stupid. MOST people really aren't THAT dumb... but MOST people simply don't pay much attention to how they come across, either. How often have you heard the phrase, "But that's not what I meant..."?

Dink's problem is that he had something to say, but he didn't really care enough about it to really make his point, to really use some wordage.

...so... in this format... on this forum... that kind of attitude comes across as "FIRELORD SUX THE BIG OEN, SMBODY AT WIZKDIS SHLOUD MAKE IT BETER."

If we're lucky, we get a new catchphrase. Like "Borken." But most of the time, the complainer -- who may not be an idiot, and who may well have a legitimate point to make -- comes across like a maroon.

The moral of our story, boys and girls, is this: If you're going to contribute something, WRITE about it! Give us some THOUGHT, some REASONING! It lets us know that you CAN and DID think and reason! Pay some attention to what you write. Take a minute to glance at it before hitting the SEND button. Hell, there's even an EDIT function here for your convenience. USE it... or come across like an immature idiot to your fellow Netizens.

It's your call.

Jean_genie

03/17/2003, 12:37

As per usual, Doomtoy laying the smackdown on bad manners and poor judgement. Sort of. I guess.

When I first read the last line of your post, I thought it was "Nietzschians", and I was thinking "Yeah, people that wear shirts with stuff like 'humans suck' on it really do tick me off." But then I read it again, and noticed how many letters off I really was. Of course, it was still a good point. Just not even remotely close to the one you were making. :D

Manchine

03/17/2003, 12:42

I love discussing things. But there is a way to discuss things and a way not to. I try not to get sucked in. BUt it does happen even to the best of us. Ask shin about our big misunderstanding that took about 4 pages to figure out. :D ;) :p

Just remember there is an ignore button (well its not a button but there is a way to ignore people) that fixes a lot of the problems.

drimdal

03/17/2003, 12:51

hmmm, I'm normally only lurking here but I think that I'd better post something here before people stop reading my posts once I do finally write something.

I have to agree. I come from the Babylon5wars forum which is very mature and well moderated.

There are no insults to speak of and almost no flame wars.

If only it could be like that everywhere.

Nevest

03/17/2003, 12:54

I just avoid any thread with the word sucks (or one of it's many variations) in the title or in the first post. The conversation just seems to degenerate from there.

I do happen to be fond of the word cool though ... so you best back off Mr. Doomtoy and recongnize the coolness of the word cool ;)

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 12:55

Yeah, but I come here from this one particular Warhammer 40K forum that's been a continuous floating flame war for about five yeras now...

("Nietzcheans?" Why the heck would I be calling us Nietzcheans?) Oh, wait... Ubermen... superheroes... Heroclix! Oh, I get it...:D ...)

And Nevest, if you wish to use the word "cool", this is your right. No rule against it. Have at 'em.

I sure hope you know more words than THAT, though, or your posts are going to get old pretty quick...

Sundancer

03/17/2003, 12:56

Doomtoy makes one of two huge points I thought of when I read the first response. The second is

The interpersonally of the Web makes it easier to flame people. If you never have to see them again, you say what you want.

I don't read too many threads here, but from what I've seen it's certainly friendlier than other sights I been too. I went to one site once and asked why people had to swear so much on that fourm. I got no less than fifteen responses basically saying "F--- You" in the most creative Photoshop'ed ways possible.:rolleyes:

This is one of the two forums I visit. I've been lucky so far picking topics I think avoid the issue discussed.

Kissoon

03/17/2003, 12:57

Feeling a bit self-righteous, eh? I've wondered for a while which is worse, being 10 years old and playing at heroclix tourneys farting and giggling like it's your job, OR being a thirty year old virgin who beats these kids' asses every week or so to sell their LE figures on e-bay.

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 13:01

There are people like that. I remember years ago, when I was hitchhiking, a guy pulled over to pick me up... and then laughed like a loon, flipped me off, and peeled out when I approached his car.

In short, he went out of his way to really, really be a major jerk, for the sheer poison glee of it.

That kind of person REALLY loves the internet... because here, you can walk up to anyone, scream filth and obscenity in their face, and what are they going to do about it? In the real world, you can bust them in the chops... but here, about all you can do is scream back. And they love it. Proves you're paying attention, and that they're bugging you. This is what we call a "troll."

...and this is why there are moderated forums. Some of us don't think permanent floating flame wars are much fun. And they sure don't give me much in the way of tips on how to beat Firelord...

GoldenAge

03/17/2003, 13:02

I agree that an intelligent approach to Clix debates/discussions is immensely preferred over the grab-a$$ garbage I often wade through to read something worth while.
However...
You know what......to tell you the truth, im goign to do my best to not respond to anyone that doesnt post on this thread (excluding azs and jonl of course) anyays, anyone that plays this game with integrity, please resond to this poll so we can seperte the a--holes from seriousls players that want to learn about the game and compete
... Starting a separatist movement like this is just silly.

Sundancer

03/17/2003, 14:48

Originally posted by Kissoon
Feeling a bit self-righteous, eh? I've wondered for a while which is worse, being 10 years old and playing at heroclix tourneys farting and giggling like it's your job, OR being a thirty year old virgin who beats these kids' asses every week or so to sell their LE figures on e-bay.

1. I'm a virgin, by choice. Sex is overrated.

2. I'll be thirty in July.

3. I sell LE's on ebay. I need money.

A less mature person might get defensive, but though I disagree with your choice of words, I understand what you're trying to say. I know I can say something ironic about this situation in this topic thread, but I don't know what....:p

AZS

03/17/2003, 15:16

This is a great thread and raises a good point.

A guy in line at the supermarket last night exemplifies a lot of people on this board.
The line was long and he must have been in a hurry. The guy was ~35 y/o average looking and was standing behind me angrily mumbling. Loud enough for me to hear, but not loud enough to be talking to anyone. And he wasn’t talking to anyone, just b*tching that the line was too long, that people were taking too long, that there weren’t enough registers (even though *all* of them were open, and all 5 self check out lanes too).

Ultimately he was just really bitter. He was a bitter angry man with no real reason other than he wanted things to move along and they weren’t going to.
He was basically 5 degrees away from being an angry bum mumbling to himself on the street. And it made me think about how some people are just inherently bitter and angry, and need to complain, regardless of the circumstance.
Those people have an outlet in the internet. Some of them find their way here.

Over the 9 months I’ve been here the board has shown me something that has migrated into my everyday life, ‘it just doesn’t pay to get upset about insignificant things.’

It has also illustrated something that is cliché but true, if you’re not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Meaning, if you don’t like that there are too many threads complaining that Ironman sucks or that Spiderman can’t bench 50 tons and doesn’t deserve to have super strength, if you’re tired of those threads, then start some positive threads. Talk about how cool it is that they’re doing a retro Shadowcat, or that even though you were expecting the regular Green Goblin, you like Ultimate Spiderman so much that you’re happy to see this fig and like the Willpower/perplex combo that’s worked so well for you with doc ock.

Anything other than complaining. And yes, even complaining about complaining still contributes to the downward spiral. Calling the board a ‘sucking pit of despair’ in order to make it better doesn’t really help. So I reach out to everyone whose posted to in agreement to this thread to take it upon ourselves that when we see things spiraling downward, start some positive threads (with an actual topic) and try to turn things around. It might seem like we’re drowning in a sea of negativity, but that’s just because the people who complain happen to be the people who speak the loudest and most often, but they don’t have to be the majority.

Sorry for the rant, generally everyone whose posted to this thread has been polite and had reasonable things to say. I'm just trying to light a fire under our collective butts to try and turn things around a little bit. Doomtoy's discussion has some very valid points, but my take on it is if a kid with access to the internet spends his days complaining about how much everything in the world sucks, he's on the fast path to being that guy in line at the supermarket. I'm not saying everyone needs to take the time to start writing reviews, that's an extreme, but just look for what you like and try to spark conversations about it. Or even good natured debates.

edit: meant to also add -- I hope I haven’t offended anyone. Thanks for reading. This thread is cool.

Manchine

03/17/2003, 15:20

Go Azs go Azs go Azs.

Nuff Said.

Fnord

03/17/2003, 15:56

The way I look at it is thus; sifting through the chaff of drek posts, makes the few nuggets of wisdom more worthwhile. At least that's what I tell myself so as to not have an aneurism. In a perfect world everyone who posts would be courteous and erudite. All we can do is work towards perfection. If every unorganized grab-asstic piece of amphibian #### post disapeared tomorrow then I would rejoice. Untill then, I shall endeavor to converse civilly and leave the whine in the kitchen with the cheese.

ShadowRaven

03/17/2003, 16:03

is there any wine in there?

I mean it's all good right?

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 16:09

quote: Golden Age
___________________________________________
I agree that an intelligent approach to Clix debates/discussions is immensely preferred over the grab-a$$ garbage I often wade through to read something worth while.
___________________________________________

True, but to have it perfect all the time would just probably never happen. Everyone hear would probably have to agree that nobody gets flamed more than I. The reason for this most of the time would be the general hatred by the Hcrealms public of my arrogance or seemingly self flattery.

quote: azs
___________________________________________
Over the 9 months I’ve been here the board has shown me something that has migrated into my everyday life, ‘it just doesn’t pay to get upset about insignificant things.’
___________________________________________

Sometimes it COULD be considered passion for something people have enjoyed for many years: COMICS.

quote: Manchine
___________________________________________
I love discussing things. But there is a way to discuss things and a way not to. I try not to get sucked in. BUt it does happen even to the best of us.
___________________________________________

Good approach, so why post to non-issues? When discussions usually reach 5 posts, the rants start appearing more often. I have been in a few great discussions (although some of you wont think so), about various topics ie/ character differences I've had with the game designers.

quote: Dexceus
___________________________________________
Remember this are all just OPINIONS. Just because you think that X sucks, does not mean it sucks. It means that in your opinion it sucks. Your opinion is not fact.
___________________________________________

Opinions are just opinions. Some cases are just so misrepresented that debates are naturally going to start about them. I have my own gripes and so do all of you. Everyone should be able to tell the difference between opinion and fact. Fact: Elektra Assassin has 8 clicks of life, super senses and perplex. Opinion: What the hell are they smoking? Fact 2: the Con-Artist is 11 points and the R/E/V Paramedics are 8-10-12 points. Opinion: Where can I get what they are smoking?

I won't make excuses for ranting, I happen to like to rant. It shows that I am passionate about both the HC game and the COMICS from which it derived from.

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 16:15

Hey Thanosied, aka M.B.M., I'll sell all my uniques to put you through English class. Seriously, come over to my house tonite and I'll see how much I can get for a rookie Cyclops.

bizzaro

03/17/2003, 16:20

Originally posted by Thanosied
quote: Golden Age
___________________________________________

quote: Deu
Remember this are all just OPINIONS. Just because you think that X sucks, does not mean it sucks. It means that in your opinion it sucks. Your opinion is not fact.

That's true, but the real point here is that if you don't like iron man because he costs a lot of points, doesn't have a high enough attack value, and you don't like the progression of powers down his dial ... then say that. Don't type "Iron Man sucks. Wizkids ripped him off" (off course 4 of 7 words would have been mispelled as well).

Personally I just ignore any OPINIONS that don't present at least present a semblance of a case to back it up.

(Btw ... I think Iron Man's dial looks pretty good. :D )

Panther Cult

03/17/2003, 16:32

Not to disagree with Azs, because I thought his points were, relevant and accurate. In general I prefer the positive threads and posts to those that are endlessly negative.

However, I think complaining is a relevant and, at times, necessary, avenue of communication. If I turn to my wife and complain about Mr. Fantastic's point value being too high to make him a very effective piece, at best she'll look at me like I'm speaking swahili. Who else will undestand this better than the folks here who share my interest in this game.

I think Dexceus' original point, one which I agree with, is not that people shouldn't complain (although the forum could probably do with a little less griping), but rather, that if you're going to complain - do so intelligently, with a well reasoned argument and, hopefully with some constructive criticism or suggestion for how to improve things.

Posts like "this piece is ####" or "Constricter sucks" are a waste of the time they took to type. They add nothing. A post saying "I've had real difficulty finding any way to use Constricter in a team format. Does anyone have any suggestions for playing this figure or is he destined to the dark corner of my toy box?" Will likely get be much better received - at least by me :)

So to reiterate - complaining isn't inherently bad - though it can become tiresome and pointless when endlessly repeated with no new insight or worthwhile commentary.

Or that's how I see it anyway.

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 16:33

Sorry about the original post. In my haste to get a good post up, I submitted when looking at the previous posts. I have since finished the original post. I read through all of the other posts fully before making my response. It didn't take long, only one post, for the flaming to start. When I'm nice, I get flamed, when I'm ranting, I get flamed. Maybe someone should just put up a "Flame Thanosied" post and take out the middle-man. I never wrote about Ironman but if I had, whats the difference between me saying that "Ironman sucks", or you saying "well then Thanosied sucks and can't spell." Really, I'd like to know.

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 16:36

But you CAN'T spell...

bizzaro

03/17/2003, 16:39

Originally posted by Thanosied
Sorry about the original post. In my haste to get a good post up, I submitted when looking at the previous posts. I read through all of them fully before making my response. It didn't take long, only one post, for the flaming to start. When I'm nice, I get flamed, when I'm ranting, I get flamed. Maybe someone should just put up a "Flame Thanosied" post and take out the middle-man. I never wrote about Ironman but if I had, whats the difference between me saying that "Ironman sucks", or you saying "well then Thanosied sucks and can't spell." Really, I'd like to know.

Thanosied, I wasn't intending my post or example to be directed at you ... it was a generic example.

I was just trying to say opinions are needed at this site ... its just good when a opinion is backed up with something. I'm not saying you don't back up your posts, etc.

Manchine

03/17/2003, 16:52

Thanosied, your biggest problem is about 3/4 of your posts are negitive. You dont discuss, you remain stubbornly to your views even in the face of massive evidenance against you. Even I change my mind if I am given proof.

darius_dax1

03/17/2003, 16:54

The complaining that I have seen in my short time as an HC Realms member has not been constructive. A player getting into it with a game designer is just a waste of time.

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 16:59

Sorry Bizarro, I guess I misunderstood, but it demonstrated my point anyway.

To:Shin-Goji
Spelling isn't my strong point usually, I'm not terribly concerned about it, it doesn't really keep me up at night. However, I would suggest that since the realms of both comics and hero clix are usually inhabited by little kids, you may want to be careful who you make fun of. Some children may be bothered and saddened by your schoolyard teasing. (I am an adult and don't care)
Do it for the children Shin-Goji.

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 17:02

If I received proof, I'd change my mind too.

Cosmic Crow

03/17/2003, 17:02

Just remember,a lot of the people that reply may be politicians or (duhhh)professional atheletes.

AZS

03/17/2003, 17:07

Originally posted by Thanosied
It didn't take long, only one post, for the flaming to start. When I'm nice, I get flamed, when I'm ranting, I get flamed. Maybe someone should just put up a "Flame Thanosied" post and take out the middle-man.If you are looking for a legitimate answer to this, look no further than your own previous post where you personally claim arrogance and self flattery.

But really it comes down to this (and in the essence of this thread, I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic at all), you are the boy who cried wolf. You've been obnoxious on so many occasions that that is all people will see. If you wonder why people won't take your serious posts seriously its because you've basically painted yourself as a bad guy and that's how people interpret you. If you feel you really do have something to legitimately and productively add to a conversation and want to be taken seriously, then you will need to take steps to erase peoples established notions of you. And that will not happen overnight. But you sometimes have some valid points, and if you focus on them (and your spelling) then we might be able to see you differently.

Panther Cult you have a very good point. To quote Doomtoy, 'that's not what I meant.'
Actually, I did mean what I said, but it could use some polishing. I see complaining as just complaining. No actual substance, ie: Ironman sucks.
But constructive criticism, or debates, or whatever the proper term is for opening up a disparaging point of view that actually has merit and the intention to be discussed is what I'm looking for. IE, I can't see Iron Man being worth his points. To me he looks like he sucks. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to use him? And, on the other hand it looks like Mandarin is really cool, I can't wait to mind control someone from 12 squares away.

And sometimes, its all in the "tone of voice."
IE: Whatever happened to being mature? is slightly better than the vacuum that is HCRealms.

But then again, this is all just my opinion!

DS-00-0, FSD

03/17/2003, 17:18

Complain: Express discontent or pain; find fault; charge formally

Discuss: Consider and talk over

Here is the main problem. The majority of people complain. It's easy to find fault and express one's discontent. No one really wants to discuss the issues.

It comes down to either having a one way complaint, or a two way discussion. Maybe it's the inherent need to feel "right". There are quite a few great discussions about certain aspects fo the game and how they can or cannot be addressed/changed/accepted/adapted. Unfortunately there are even moore posts that are created for the express purpose of finding others who agree with you. How many thimes has someone posted a thread and had their question answered, but then try to argue their position, even against the most logical of responses?

Does it really matter? Does anyone honestly think WK is going to look at the posts of a bunch of fans and say: "Hey, this Jimmy Smith guy really takes this game seriously and we want him on our team" or "This Jimmy Smith guy is right, we should never have RS and RCE on the same click. Let's fire Jon and have him make the game"?

In the long run it probably does not matter, but it propegates the unrest. Jimmy Smith can say what he wants on a board and will never fear the repurcussions for his actions. This could likely carry over to his personal life and he will start to find things wrong at his venue and will become the snide player that everyone hates to play because he will sit there and complain about every small aspect of the game. He'll become azs' bitter man mumbling about every single thing that does not fit into his world view. All because of a G-A-M-E!!!

Yeah it might be a pasion, but it is only a little game about fictitional characters.

Does it matter in the long run?? Well I believe a former board member said it best...

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 17:30

Azs: Doubtless you HAVE offended some people. On the other hand, the kind of guy who was behind you would likely have taken the color of your SOCKS personally. I don't doubt there are people like that on this board. You're going to find a few in every barrel.

And I couldn't care less if Thanosied can't spell. I am not his mother. Hey, I can't spell, either. I just spend a half hour or so with a dictionary, carefully proofreading every post before I hit the SEND button, that's all.

For that matter, I don't even mind NEGATIVITY all that much. I mean, come ON, guys. We know that WizKids takes a lot of our feedback into account every time they begin work on something. Seems like they could learn as much from our negative remarks as our positive.

All I'm saying is this:

1. Learn some new adjectives.
2. Pay attention to how you come across. The rest of us are in here, too, and we have to read your posts occasionally.
3. Have a little common courtesy for the rest of us.

That's it.

B@man

03/17/2003, 17:34

Wow! This is the most civilized and elevated thread I've ever read here! The cool (oops!) thing is, have you noticed that when the vast majority of posters take that kind of tone, it tends to elevate everyone's tone? It's a positive peer pressure! What a great experience! Guys, I'm telling you, this old English teacher's getting chills up and down his spine: maybe there is hope for the future!:cool:

Basil Elks

03/17/2003, 17:39

Immature?, Us?, Never! :D

daredevil11

03/17/2003, 17:43

Unfortunately, I think the internet is by nature a form of communication that lends itself to rudeness and misunderstanding. So let's not beat ourselves up too much, its almost inevitable I think. There's the annonimity (sp) factor for one thing - its an open invitation to say things you would never say face to face. There's also a lack of immediate context and inflection which we use quite a bit in vocal communication, which leads to many misunderstandings.

I agree, there's too much complaining, but people complain about things they care about - that's one way to look at it.

I complain less than I use to, some of my pet peeves have already been solved and I think the JonL posts have been great. Like most people, I don't expect to get what I want, I just want to know someone is listening. Also, as more and more figures and dials hit the market, there's less and less to complain about - if you don't like the way a figure is done, switch dials - what the heck.

I think there's way too many trivia people out there, who seem to just wait for an opportunity to tell someone they're wrong based on some obscure fact that concerns a micro topic that has nothing to do with the general gist of a conversation. Sometimes I feel like I'm on Jeopardy or something. I wonder if there's a prize for the amount of comic trivia corrections. In a face to face conversation, trivial corrections would be considered rude unless they had something to do with the main thrust of the conversation.

I think we have more than our fair share of people who just like to argue for arguments sake, but then a lot of boards do - its the new age past time - take out your frustrations by arguing with a stranger instead of your boss or your spouse.

Although frankly, I can take the complaining and arguing better than I can take the endless private joke posts that have nothing to do with the topic - you know, 1-3 word posts, smiley faces and no words, blank posts, Ha HA, He He, "Aren't we funny?" - No - I mean come on, take it to a chatroom or yahoo or somewhere else. When I start having to waid through that garbage I find myself praying for a complainer, atleast it will be about hero clix.

And all of this, of course, is just my useless opinion - but I thought I'd throw it in - have a great day gang.

ShadowRaven

03/17/2003, 17:53

and the spit from thy fanboy's mouth were as whine..........

ooooooh did just make a big mistake?

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 18:00

...............................Ew.

daredevil11

03/17/2003, 18:03

Originally posted by ShadowRaven
and the spit from thy fanboy's mouth were as whine..........

ooooooh did just make a big mistake?

LOL, you're probably right, but the point is, which I forgot to make . . . I ramble sorry . . . is that immaturity takes many forms on internet boards, and over correcting for no apparent reason pertinent to a discussion is one of them. Certainly it is something that would be considered rude face to face. The realms does, after all, provide separate boards for comic enthusiasts.

I actually happen to know certain periods of history very well, we all know something really well. Do I debate history with other history buffs, sure. Do I correct everyone who utters a fact that conflicts with that in casual conversation - no. Do I watch historical based movies and point out discrepencies to friends and family - no. Why not? because its rude and the only reason to do such a thing would be to basicly elevate my own self image and make someone else feel stupid. Everyone here likes games and comic characters, but not everyone is an avid comic reader enthusiast, it would be nice if that fact was recognized. If this was the Marvel or DC comic discussion web site, it would be another matter.

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 18:15

Originally posted by Thanosied
To:Shin-Goji
Spelling isn't my strong point usually, I'm not terribly concerned about it, it doesn't really keep me up at night. However, I would suggest that since the realms of both comics and hero clix are usually inhabited by little kids, you may want to be careful who you make fun of. Some children may be bothered and saddened by your schoolyard teasing. (I am an adult and don't care)
Do it for the children Shin-Goji.

Really? I remeber very specifically posts that you wrote where you spelled out expletives to bypass filters, then changed them before the mods got you. I should know. I was the one who reported you every time. If schoolkids are going to be upset by me teasing you, then they deserve to get beat up and have the lunch money, shoes, coat and hat taken. You mongolian butt monkey. You just shot yourself in the foot AGAIN!

Insaniac99

03/17/2003, 18:18

*Claps*

daredevil11

03/17/2003, 18:24

Originally posted by shin-goji
You mongolian butt monkey. You just shot yourself in the foot AGAIN!

Oh come on now, this is the second time I've run into this battle/discussion. I don't really know Thanoseid or you, but frankly I don't see how he's any worse than the ones who complain about him.

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 18:28

Originally posted by shin-goji

Really? I remeber very specifically posts that you wrote where you spelled out expletives to bypass filters, then changed them before the mods got you. I should know. I was the one who reported you every time. If schoolkids are going to be upset by me teasing you, then they deserve to get beat up and have the lunch money, shoes, coat and hat taken. You mongolian butt monkey. You just shot yourself in the foot AGAIN!

Dude, did you just say that you tattled on me? What grade are you in again? So, let me get this straight, you tattle tale on people when you don't like what they say, you call people names (albeit original ones-mongolian butt monkey), and you make fun of their intelligence by saying they can't spell....hmmm...Shin-Goji, you're like the nicest guy I know. If I ever have kids, can you babysit them? What a wonderful example you set...I want to grow up to be just like you.

Noman

03/17/2003, 18:36

Doomtoy said :-

"1. Learn some new adjectives.
2. Pay attention to how you come across. The rest of us are in here, too, and we have to read your posts occasionally.
3. Have a little common courtesy for the rest of us."

That gets my vote.

oh, and Manchine, re changing your mind - how much lube did they use ? LoL

I think that, overall, this is a very sane and reasonable site...and the only point when I sling in a complaint is when I see a post I wouldn't want my 4 children to read posted by someone with a firm grasp of Anglo-Saxon words of 4 sylabels or less. Seeing as they do read the site "under their own steam", that's merely sensible parenting.

Spelling isn't an issue - I'm dyslexic, so I can't spell - but that's why God allowed us to invent spell checkers...

...and, in general, incoherant gibbering is generaly best met with blank incomprehension...

or, to put it another way - if the kiddies want to wreak a little verbal havock in the romper room, well sometimes it's best to gently close the door and walk away...

The time to worry is when it becomes personal. There have been one or two incidents where particular people/topics/posters have been flamed into distraction by somebody having either a laugh, or a bad day. Sometimes they bring friends...

The best communities self regulate...and by and large I think this virtual community does so pretty well.

LoL

All the Best

Noman

rjh16

03/17/2003, 18:37

If you don't like what you see on HC realms then don't look!! People have a right to express the way they feel without having to worry about people like you telling them their immature because they right about a sucky figure!!

HAWKMAN SUCKS!!!!

:rolleyes:

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 18:46

Well, it would seem that I have started something with my little rant. :)

First I want to say that this was never intended to be a complaint about complaining, per say. What this was meant to be was a complaint about how people complain.

If you think that X figure is bad and want to let people know about it, I have no issue with it. Just make sure that you do it intelligently. Give the reasons that you think that. And watch using language that can be taken as flame-laden, like suck or poo or whatever. Realize that it is your opinion, and your opinion only, and that others will disagree.

Also, keep an open mind. Who knows, you might learn something.

I wrote the orginal post for two reasons. 1. To vent a little of the fustration of seeing it over and over again. 2. To maybe start a movement of trying to get people to do better by example.

So far, it is looking like this thread might be doing both. :)

As for the person who made some comment about 30 year old virgins, I am curious who the hell you are addressing that to. (For the record, I am neither 30 nor a virgin)

As for spelling, I don't worry too much about that. I am dyslexic myself and spelling is a MAJOR issue for me. I still think I get myself across better then most.

And about the idea of things being inevitable, they are only invetiable if we let them and change takes place one person at a time.

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 18:47

Originally posted by rjh16
If you don't like what you see on HC realms then don't look!! People have a right to express the way they feel without having to worry about people like you telling them their immature because they right about a sucky figure!!

HAWKMAN SUCKS!!!!

:rolleyes:

You know, I think this just proves my point for me.

Noman

03/17/2003, 18:47

Thanks Dexceus.

"People like you"

oh, gosh, I think I just became a pressure group !!!

LoL

Qoute from rjh16 "People have a right to express the way they feel without having to worry about people like you telling them their immature because they right about a sucky figure!! "

1. You have the right to express the way you feel.

2. You have the right not to worry about people like me/us.

3. I/We have the right to tell you your immature if you write about a "sucky figure" (Pause for adult members of the site to fall about laughing...)

4. Hawkman does not "suck" - by which I assume you are reffering to whether he is an adequate clix figure or not - as he is a very capable taxi. If you were reffering to anything else, the Thangarian police will be round shortly...

Ultimatly, this site is a private site and the site owners can pretty much edit or control whatever they want. Or not. I'm happy with that.

LoL

All the Best

Noman

MarkFinn

03/17/2003, 18:48

I'm all for being mature and civil. It's tough to maintain that composure, however, when the children on these boards direct their caveman-speak at your opinion, question, or (god forbid) you disagree with them.

It's a maturity issue, to be sure: the young'uns aren't as adept as the older people at editing out "You SUCK" and turning it into "I disagree." The other half of it is this: there are folks on here who are in their 20's and 30's who never HAD the social skills to begin with. It becomes a social/rudeness problem.

What do we do with them? Blow a whistle and order them out of the Geek-Pool? Ignore them? It's not like they are being antagonistic; the moderators are swift in correcting even the slightest infractions of policy. But what do you do with people like Thanosied, who routinely hijack threads with posts of how HE would have created the figure, followed by inevitable arguments over whether or not said figure would have X and Y abilities?

It seems like the best strategy, one that I've decided to put into practice, is ignoring the offenders. When the offenders repeat their odious behavior, I think gentle correction is in order. In Thanosied's case, all of his aggressors would go away if he'd just post in the Artisan's Guild and stop hijacking preview threads. That's a nice solution that doesn't offend anyone and hopefully minimize online infighting.

bizzaro

03/17/2003, 18:56

Originally posted by rjh16
HAWKMAN SUCKS!!!!

:rolleyes:

Nice. Next time add why you think he "sucks" (thanks for putting the effort in to not spell it "sux") and then it'll be a useful post.

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 19:01

You see, I don't think it is neccesarly an age thing at all, but more of a maturity level thing. I have seen some adults on here, posting like they were 12. I have seen some 12 year olds posting like they were adults.

What do about them? The first thing to do is lead by example. The second is to find some way to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior.

In communities like this, those rewards and punishments tend to be somewhat intangible. G

ood behavior is rewarded with respect and admiration. People who routinely mature and contributing to the community as a whole generaly get praise from the community and the fact that people are more likly to listen to you.

Bad behavior is punnished with basicly being ignored. Though to be truly effective, they need to know that is why they are being ignored.

My suggestion, do not answer posts that do not meet up with what you think is maturity, per say. Answer those posts only long enough to say 'I am not going to answer this post because it needs X to reach my standards' and leave it at that. You let them know it is not exceptable without feeding the trolls.

Oh, and if someone ever goes 'Okay, this is unacceptable, but I don't know why and I want to know what is', someone has to answer them. :)

daredevil11

03/17/2003, 19:10

I think Mark is right on the not responding, suggestion. Often, people end up responding in the same way - its hard to resist and I have at times, but you're not going to change someone on the net. You can cut off the response though, and be it positive or negative, that's what people are looking for when they post - some sort of response. Cut off the response, maybe the incentive to post some things diminishes . . . maybe LOL

On a side note, without giving a specific response to something above, . . . my side is still aching. Irony is so ironic sometimes.
Yall have a good night, (no I can't spell either, but Yall is really spelled this way where I'm from)

**Dexceus
Didn't ignore you're point directly above, when I was writing this, it wasn't up yet - I pretty much agree with you - nice thread, enjoyed it.

Thanosied

03/17/2003, 19:16

The idea behind this thread (from my understanding) is that people want intellectual discussions on topics. They do not want to see "so-and-so sucks", but rather "so-and-so sucks, in my opinion and here's why". Not only that, but they also want to see suggestions for fixes to the perceived problems.
So, here goes: "Iceman sucks in my opinion, because he does not represent at the Veteran level what I believe his prowess would indicate from the comics. Here's why: 1)he should have running shot because in the comics he is constantly slide-by shooting people, 2)he doesn't have very many clicks (5) of life, for someone who has perpetual armor, and 3)he can take a hit in the comics and should have toughness to represent this."
In my Iceman thread, I suggested a redesigned example (that I spent a few hours making) of how I would have made him.
This I believe, is exactly the type of posting you are all advocating. It is also incidentally, the very post that Mark Finn has decided to comment on above as an example of how not to post. I said in my opinion Iceman was bad, I explained why I thought so and then finally, I suggested changes that would have improved his Veteran version.

shin-goji

03/17/2003, 19:21

Originally posted by Thanosied
Dude, did you just say that you tattled on me? What grade are you in again? So, let me get this straight, you tattle tale on people when you don't like what they say,

Look in the lower right hand corner. There's a button that says "report this post to a moderator." It's right next to the button that you press that shoots a banana out of your toaster. Dag right I hit it! When you openly swear at people you should get a warning. I did and I deserved it. You tell me that I should watch how i insult you when you use language that I use in my cartoons. If you keep shooting yourself in the foot you'll be in real trouble because hospitals don't allow monkeys in ER.

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 19:35

Thanosied,

It is also two other things.

1. We are what we have done. People have seen you post in ways in the past that is, in thier opinion, immature. Because of that, they will look at everything you post with a more critical eye and with a slanted view point. That will continue until they see a consistant change.

2. It is all about attitude. That post had a certian 'attitude' about it that combined with your pasts posts makes it very easy to be interperted differently then a straight forward 'I think X because of Y' post. In my opinion, you still came across wrong in that post. Also, your replies to anyone that disagrees with you is always harsh.

You asked my opinion, so I told you.

Doomtoy

03/17/2003, 19:47

Maturity is not a function of age.

MarkFinn

03/17/2003, 20:14

Originally posted by Thanosied
The idea behind this thread (from my understanding) is that people want intellectual discussions on topics. They do not want to see "so-and-so sucks", but rather "so-and-so sucks, in my opinion and here's why". Not only that, but they also want to see suggestions for fixes to the perceived problems.
So, here goes: "Iceman sucks in my opinion, because he does not represent at the Veteran level what I believe his prowess would indicate from the comics. Here's why: 1)he should have running shot because in the comics he is constantly slide-by shooting people, 2)he doesn't have very many clicks (5) of life, for someone who has perpetual armor, and 3)he can take a hit in the comics and should have toughness to represent this."
In my Iceman thread, I suggested a redesigned example (that I spent a few hours making) of how I would have made him.
This I believe, is exactly the type of posting you are all advocating. It is also incidentally, the very post that Mark Finn has decided to comment on above as an example of how not to post. I said in my opinion Iceman was bad, I explained why I thought so and then finally, I suggested changes that would have improved his Veteran version.

I never said Don't Post This Way.
What I said was you constantly hijack other threads to tell people how YOU would create characters...which isn't bad, per se, but it always starts arguments. You get the satisfaction of showing off your comics knowledge and you justify your power choices. Not once have you ever stated that you feel a Clix character should be all-inclusive. You have always just replied with "But he can do it in the comics!"

And furthermore, you missed this, my last paragraph:
...In Thanosied's case, all of his aggressors would go away if he'd just post in the Artisan's Guild and stop hijacking preview threads. That's a nice solution that doesn't offend anyone and hopefully minimize online infighting.

That's where custom characters, alternate dials, and the like need to go. Not in the preview threads of characters that are unrelated to the one you're modding.

Melkoloran

03/17/2003, 20:54

That's where custom characters, alternate dials, and the like need to go. Not in the preview threads of characters that are unrelated to the one you're modding.

Yep yep. Alternate dials go well in the Artisan's Guild rather than the General Forum.

Spinebreaker

03/17/2003, 22:30

>>>Whatever happened to being mature?<<<

It got old...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

While I applaud the general idea behind this thread, where do you draw the line.

I notice lots of people complaining about complaining, but half the time if someone just raises a point in discussion for example "Spidey having superstrength seems a little off to me". Results in enormous threads where the standard response is "If you don't like the figure don't use it, quit whining."

Opinions get seen as whining.

I think "Hawkman sucks" is an easier way to get your message across than "Hawkman's a rather weak figure if you ask me"...

Everyone understands what you mean. Admittedly saying a figure sucks with no reason is a bit of a redundant point

Draggor

03/17/2003, 22:42

It's unfortunate that a thread that was supposed to be about being mature has broken out into bouts of name calling and bruised egos. I admit that I've gotten a bit heated once or twice and then gone back later embarresed about what I wrote. Maybe we should learn to take a few seconds to think before we post. I think people are right that immature rants tend to attract more immaturity. I still agree with the original motives behind this thread. I don't need to see yet another post that just says "character x sux." People post this type of thing too often without really thinking about a characters uses first. Maybe there's ways to use the character you're not seeing. Maybe it's designed to be used as a combination with other pieces. I know there were characters I never would have contemplated using till I read something here extolling their virtues and what teams they work in. We should ALL make a consciece effort to explain any posts we make intelligently and avoid simple mud slinging. We can't really know anyone else just from a few messages on a board.

One final point- DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

Dexceus

03/17/2003, 22:52

Were do we draw the line? That is an easy one. We all decide where our own personal line is. As a fall out from that, the community as a whole will determine where the line is.

My point comes down to this:

Let's try to get people to get thier opinons across intelligently instead of just saying 'X Sucks'. Let's work as a community to take it to the next level.

MarkFinn

03/17/2003, 23:31

Originally posted by Dexceus
Were do we draw the line? That is an easy one. We all decide where our own personal line is. As a fall out from that, the community as a whole will determine where the line is.

My point comes down to this:

Let's try to get people to get thier opinons across intelligently instead of just saying 'X Sucks'. Let's work as a community to take it to the next level.

Yeah, what he said. I like this a lot. We need to police our own.

That said, it would be NICE, but not imperative, if HCRealms stepped up to the plate and offered a few more forum guidelines for newcomers. Things along the lines of, "Before you post a topic, search through our archives for similar subject matter first. You might find an older thread has all of the answers you need."

I'm just saying, when I see the sign on the door that says, "Please do not eat the big white mint" I keep my hand out of the urinal.
So to speak.

Dalmatio69

03/18/2003, 02:24

Sometimes people just want to have fun. Immaturity to you can be a joke to someone else. Besides, those "your mom sucks" threads are easy to avoid, and even if they werent, theyd probally waste 30 seconds of your time reading them. Youve wasted more time posting this thread then you would have trying to avoide 'immature' threads.

Just a thought.

-Ryan

edit:

This is kinda funny. I just saw this post about firelord by Decexus (forgive me if i spellt your name wrong)

"2. If you don't want to read a Firelord thread, then don't read it. Just don't tell other people they can't talk about something because you do not like it."

Replace "Firelord" with "immature" and you said what i wanted to say.

MarkFinn

03/18/2003, 10:42

Basil Elks

03/18/2003, 11:51

*points at Dexceus* Oh great, now look what you made me do. {to know/find out what happens when I point at someone, read my "Rabid Monkey Fecal Matter" thread.}

Dexceus

03/18/2003, 12:10

Originally posted by Dalmatio69
Sometimes people just want to have fun. Immaturity to you can be a joke to someone else. Besides, those "your mom sucks" threads are easy to avoid, and even if they werent, theyd probally waste 30 seconds of your time reading them. Youve wasted more time posting this thread then you would have trying to avoide 'immature' threads.

It is not a matter of being immature to have fun. That is completely different. And they are easy to avoid if they are labled as being immature, but many of them are not. Hell, many of the problems is people coming into good discussions and ruining it.

Sue me for trying to make the community a better place. And I don't consider this thread a waste of time. It seems I have gotten through to a lot of people.

Originally posted by Dalmatio69

This is kinda funny. I just saw this post about firelord by Decexus (forgive me if i spellt your name wrong)

"2. If you don't want to read a Firelord thread, then don't read it. Just don't tell other people they can't talk about something because you do not like it."

Replace "Firelord" with "immature" and you said what i wanted to say.

Fighting fo the right for people to be immature and insulting, you must be so proud of yourself.

Jadehorde

03/18/2003, 13:25

Originally posted by Dexceus
Why is that people can't discuss things on here in a mature fashion?

Why does every thread have to have 'X figure sucks' or 'X figure is poo' or 'X figure blows' or something similar in it?

If you don't like a figure for some reason why don't you say something along the lines of 'I don't like X figure for Y reason' or 'In my opinion, X figure isn't worth it for the points' .

Remember this are all just OPINIONS. Just because you think that X sucks, does not mean it sucks. It means that in your opinion it sucks. Your opinion is not fact.

Yes, I know I am ranting. It just gets to me at times. Reading through a lot of threads, it seems that the forum is popluated by a bunh of 13 year olds and I know it isn't.

And no, it is not EVERYONE who does it, I just get tired of seeing.

I'll stop ranting now.

To steal a line from Dennis Miller.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Actually, I generally give a reason as to why I think X fig is off or not truly accurate to the source material. Some others are a bit too fervent in their desires...and it comes through in rather acerbic writing....but I just want a game that highlights the uses of every character without having to make every character capable of taking on a bruiser.

My soapbox is...there are situations where given character ISN'T useful. Batman, no matter how cool, isn't taking down Supes without some prep work. Thing is probably going down to a ranged toughguy like Ironman and Thor reigns pretty up there...each character should have a niche, but there is no need to add things to a character to establish a new niche...the functional difference between Wolverine and Sabretooth is minor...as would be Nightwing and Daredevil...or Thing and Colossus....minor differences to reflect comic appearances...like combat training...indomitable will, etc...but overall many characters are interchangeable and so they will look mostly the same stat wise...

Which is what they have in Clix for the most part...it's the exceptions that bother me. That, and I'd appreciate a rough hierarchy of characters...certainly not a B beats C, A beats B, so A beats C scenario...that's not accurate..but some characters SHOULD be limited in the choice of targets..they just don't have umph...either in damage or range...to hang with certain other characters.

Dalmatio69

03/18/2003, 19:33

Originally posted by MarkFinn

Fair enough, but what about those threads that start out on topic and then quickly turn into mush? It's like being in the middle of a conversation when a six year old walks into the room and starts interrupting. You may like six year olds just fine, but you were also having a conversation that had nothing to do with the world of six year olds...

Ignore them?

There is simply no better response to that. They are, at most, a small distraction. Im not saying its good or anything, im just saying its nothing any non-mod should be concerned with.

Dalmatio69

03/18/2003, 19:43

>>>It is not a matter of being immature to have fun. That is completely different. And they are easy to avoid if they are labled as being immature, but many of them are not. Hell, many of the problems is people coming into good discussions and ruining it.<<<

Ignore them. Try to keep discussions on track.

>>>Sue me for trying to make the community a better place.<<<

By doing what? Making a post telling people to grow up? You arent the first, and you wont be the last. You want to help? Try and volunteer to be a moderater. Send the mod's posts that you feel should be removed.

>>>And I don't consider this thread a waste of time.<<<

Well maybe many people dont consider thier posts a waste of time which you deem "immature".

>>>Fighting fo the right for people to be immature and insulting, you must be so proud of yourself.<<<

Did i say insulting? No. How ironic was this part of your post? Trying to take personal shots at me,such a childish thing to do.

As i said before, i dont say those posts are acceptable all the time, i dont endorse insulting people (though you attempt an insult at me), all i do is ignore those posts and contribute to discussions as well i can. Untill it says "moderater" under your name, its all you can really do as well.

Heroclixrules

03/18/2003, 23:54

Dalmatio, you're one of these people that we at the comic shop I go to refer to as "tunnel visioned clickers". See, its about the way people present things with us. If you had one iota of mental clarity (notice I said clarity, not intelligence. And yes there IS a difference), you would notice that we have no problem with people saying stuff like "firelord sux!!" but if they put it in a childish and derogatory manner, insulting people who feel differently, then yes it gets tiresome. I admit I have done the same a few times, but believe me it is not something I am proud of. You have just proven yourself a bigger hypocrite than anyone you think is here. How? Because you went on a thread about being mature and claimed in an IMMATURE fashion that we have no right to say what we want, yet you defend other people's rights to say what they want. Am I the only one who sees this hypocracy, everyone? Practice what you preach, man. Then maybe people will regard you as an intelligent and reasonable person. Until then, you're free as a bird to go and make hypocritical comments that make you only look like an ### and push back your cause.

Dalmatio69

03/19/2003, 01:57

>>>you would notice that we have no problem with people saying stuff like "firelord sux!!"<<<

And yet ive seen posts of people saying these threads are unacceptable and should not be posted. So, how do these people not have problems with them? If you are referring to yourself, than my comments were not directed at you, having never even seen you on these boards.

>>>but if they put it in a childish and derogatory manner, insulting people who feel differently, then yes it gets tiresome.<<<

I whole heartedly agree.

>>>You have just proven yourself a bigger hypocrite than anyone you think is here. How? Because you went on a thread about being mature and claimed in an IMMATURE fashion that we have no right to say what we want,<<<

No. I didnt. Perhaps you have a problem with reading. Perhaps you didnt fully read my posts. But i kept my posts as civil as possible and never once said "you cant post such and such". If you are going to try and insult me, dont make it based off your own imagination.

>>>yet you defend other people's rights to say what they want.<<<

Not neccesarily. Firstly, again i never told anyone they couldnt post "such and such". Secondly, i said its not really his (Dex) choice to decide who can post what, its really the Moderators.

>>>Am I the only one who sees this hypocracy, everyone?<<

Probally, being that there is none to be seen.

>>>Practice what you preach, man. Then maybe people will regard you as an intelligent and reasonable person.<<<

Who doesnt? You dont? Ouch.

>>>Until then, you're free as a bird to go and make hypocritical comments that make you only look like an ### and push back your cause.<<<

You want hypocracy? Then take yourself. I come here, i make civil posts, and im flamed. I dont post in a insulting or angry manner, yet thats how im responded to?

Are people really that blind? In a thread trying to end immaturity, they immaturily flame me, when i just told you how i fellt? What the heck is up with that?

Also, id like to thank MarkFinn, as he is apparently the only one who actually knows how to respond in an adult way.

Dexceus

03/19/2003, 03:54

Originally posted by Dalmatio69
>>>It is not a matter of being immature to have fun. That is completely different. And they are easy to avoid if they are labled as being immature, but many of them are not. Hell, many of the problems is people coming into good discussions and ruining it.<<<

Ignore them. Try to keep discussions on track.

Just ignoring them is not solving a problem. Perhaps they don't know what they are doing is disruptive. Perhaps they don't realize that it is not apprecitive. Ignoring problems do not make the problems go away.

Originally posted by Dalmatio69

>>>Sue me for trying to make the community a better place.<<<

By doing what? Making a post telling people to grow up? You arent the first, and you wont be the last. You want to help? Try and volunteer to be a moderater. Send the mod's posts that you feel should be removed.

At no point in time did I tell people to 'grow up'. I mearly made comments on what I thought was immature and unintelligent. People are free to disagree with my opinons and assement, though from the responses that this thread has gotten, I would say that I am far from the only one.

Originally posted by Dalmatio69

>>>And I don't consider this thread a waste of time.<<<

Well maybe many people dont consider thier posts a waste of time which you deem "immature".

And they are free to think that. I never said otherwise. When it all comes down to it though, it is the community as a whole that makes the final decision, not any one person.

Originally posted by Dalmatio69

>>>Fighting fo the right for people to be immature and insulting, you must be so proud of yourself.<<<

Did i say insulting? No. How ironic was this part of your post? Trying to take personal shots at me,such a childish thing to do.

Exactly how am I taking personal shots at you? I wrote it and I don't see it.

As i said before, i dont say those posts are acceptable all the time, i dont endorse insulting people (though you attempt an insult at me), all i do is ignore those posts and contribute to discussions as well i can. Untill it says "moderater" under your name, its all you can really do as well. [/B][/QUOTE]

There is a lot more people can do then just 'report things to the authorities'. It is this apathy from people that cause communities to degenerate. If you see someone on the street being harrased, do you just 'tell the authorties' or do you try to help the person? If your neighbor is playing his stereo to loud and anoying the neighborhood, do you just 'call the authorties' or do you ask him to turn it down first?

Plus there is the fact that punishment without explanation, does NO good. Sometimes people just need explained to them what is acceptable. That is the job of the entire comunity, not just the 'authorities'.

I was taught to take responsibility. Not only for my own actions, but for the betterment of the community. It is the lack of both of those responsiblites that has caused the downfall of comuinities.

Dexceus

03/19/2003, 03:56

Originally posted by Dalmatio69

You want hypocracy? Then take yourself. I come here, i make civil posts, and im flamed. I dont post in a insulting or angry manner, yet thats how im responded to?

You seem to be seeing a lot of flames where there are none, yet seem to be sending them out enough yourself.

Ro-gan

03/19/2003, 06:18

Dalmatio69:

You are a very good example of a 6 year old interrupting a thread and carrying on about nonsense.

This thread was a good idea and had even started out with intelligent and well-reasoned views/opions. Even Thanosied came across as unabrasive in his later posts to this thread.

[Sorry Thanosied, I call 'em as I see them. I do notice the tendency of your posts to be (for lack of a better word) abrasive.]

Since you started posting, Dalmatio69, the thread has taken an immature turn. You make accusations, can't take criticism and come across in a "flaming" manner. While others are trying to post insightful views they have to take a timeout to post a thread to correct you or defend themselves from your accusations and statements.

From reading your posts in this thread it seems (IMHO) that your only reason to initially post and keep on posting is to cause turmoil where none existed.

If you can't have an intelligent conversation then PLEASE do NOT be part of the problem!

rjh16

03/19/2003, 19:18

I hate all you mfer's. You're all 30-50 year old losers spending your tiny paychecks on Heroclix hoping to get some shine in your life you haven't had since the 70's. Get a life and leave HC for the younger generation!!

HAWKMAN SUCKS AND IMMATURE PEOPLE WILL RULE THE WORLD!!

don't like what I said tough ####!!
What are you gonna do report me for saying bad words, you guys are all over the legal drinking age so why don't you pussies just grow up yourself and quit #####ing about #### like immature people.

When I'm your age I'll laugh as I see you withering away in a nursing home with no control over your bowels! playing heroclix with an invisible person while I on the other hand will no be a #####y little ##### like you guys!!

shin-goji

03/19/2003, 19:26

And then, rjh16, after you've driven off everyone who might have been your friend, who will YOU play with when you are in a nursing home? I earn 26.5 K a year. How much does your dad let you have?

Super_Member

03/19/2003, 20:08

You guys need to lay off Dalmatio69. He didn't insult one person or their views here. What happened here was opposite views colliding, and one person couldn't handle it, so he flamed back. Yes, "Fighting for the right for people to be immature and insulting, you must be so proud of yourself" is an insult in my book. Basically it is saying, you have no reason to proud of yourself. Minor flame yes, but enough to complain about when you are making yourself out to be mature, and different from the kiddies. If you guys really want to be mature you will find a way to reconcile your differences instead of this bickering.

If someone responds to me in a negative manner, I'll not be back, so don't be surprised. I have come to accept that some people can not handle themselves. But I do hope that Dexceus and Dalmatio69 can work things out.

shin-goji

03/19/2003, 20:26

Dude, I gotta give you props for calling yourself "Super Member" That is a riot!

Dexceus

03/19/2003, 20:28

Well, I honestly don't see where you are getting from my words that he has 'no reason to be proud of himself' Or that I don't think he has a right to his opinion.

I honestly don't see the insult and don't really see where there is anything that needs to be worked out. We have a difference of opinion, that's it.

Picard

03/19/2003, 20:44

Rjh16 how immuture he is. *scoff* the very idea. JK . I firmly believe that HC is a game ment for 10-17 year olds. All those 30 year olds who play let me ask you this. Are you typing in your parents basement where you probobly live? If you are then you probobly never left 15. If you don't, why do you spend your money on little action figures? Listlen to this If you can't take the complain then don't play the game.

Dexceus

03/19/2003, 20:55

shin-goji

03/19/2003, 21:01

Brokensaint

03/19/2003, 21:13

Wow.
It's a forum.
forum: noun: definition b: a public meeting place for open discussion.
There are no age guidelines to join HCRealms. Immaturity is kind of a moot point. As long as no open threats or vulgarity are being thrown around, there isn't too much that can be said.
Now, having said that, I will say that there is an abundance of ridiculous and repetitive threads regarding what sucks and what doesn't. I do get fed up with all of the whining.
But my 5 year old HP PC has this super cool little button that lets me exit a page.
Too often, the topics on this forum stray away the talk of comics and Heroclix, and into the realm of "You say, I say..."
If the "immature" threads are an issue, take it up with the moderators. I think that a separate section for complaints is a great idea.

Now, let me say this...
I am 32, married with children, have collected comics for 24 years, have played all kinds of RPGs since 1979, and do not live in my parent's basement. We old ones are the consumers with the cash to indulge in a hobby for the long haul. It takes a lot of lawns to earn heroclix money.

Spinebreaker

03/19/2003, 21:14

See, here's the line...

shin-goji wrote :
>>> Dude, I gotta give you props for calling yourself "Super Member" That is a riot!<<<

Silly, Immature but fun and essentially just good conversation.

RJH16 wrote :
>>>When I'm your age I'll laugh as I see you withering away in a nursing home with no control over your bowels! playing heroclix with an invisible person while I on the other hand will no be a #####y little ##### like you guys!!<<<

Immature, pointless and unnecessary.

linus23

03/19/2003, 21:22

Originally posted by Picard
Rjh16 how immuture he is. *scoff* the very idea. JK . I firmly believe that HC is a game ment for 10-17 year olds. All those 30 year olds who play let me ask you this. Are you typing in your parents basement where you probobly live? If you are then you probobly never left 15. If you don't, why do you spend your money on little action figures? Listlen to this If you can't take the complain then don't play the game.

well -- first of all, i'd just like to say that this thread has become generally useless. however, i would like to respond to picard. i'm not 30, but i'm not in my teens either. i'm not a fanboy or any of that jazz. my daddy didn't buy me comics because he saw them as a general waste of money. i've only been playing heroclix for about half a year now. a few of my friends play the game (none for tournament) and they introduced it to me. some of them know a lot about the characters, but for the most part, we just play to have fun. we don't take it that serious. we compare the game to chess -- with superheroes. it's just fun. and turning 18 doesn't magically take the fun out of it. that's just a ridiculous notion.

at the same time, all of my fellow adults who have been getting so upset on this thread. give it a rest. for real guys. getting all up in arms because someone thinks you live in a basement surrounded by manga posters, d&d items, and a keg of cheap beer doesn't mean anyone should lose their cool. everyone has hobbies, heroclix is no different. just play the game to have fun, and stop caring about what a bunch of kids think. these kids'll be adults someday, and i think it'd better for them to have more mature examples in reacting to the comments of others.

those are my two cents... i'm outta here.

Dalmatio69

03/19/2003, 21:25

>>>Just ignoring them is not solving a problem. Perhaps they don't know what they are doing is disruptive. Perhaps they don't realize that it is not apprecitive. Ignoring problems do not make the problems go away.<<<

True. But these boards have rules clearly set by the owners of it, so these posters should allready know whats wrong and whats right.

>>>Exactly how am I taking personal shots at you? I wrote it and I don't see it.<<<

Just as Super_Member said, your statement was clearly an insult. There is no other way i can look at that than being an insult.

The reason for my postings is i dont see the point of this thread. Many people did post here agreeing with you, and i, for the post part, agree also. But i feel this still accomplishes nothing. These people allready knew this to begin with. Ill accept your difference in opinion here, id hope you all do the same for me. Super_Member put it very well, and i thank him (or possibly her) for doing so.

Dalmatio69

03/19/2003, 21:39

See, ro_gan, another example of someone just posting for no other reason then put someone down and based off absolutely nothing. Normally id ignore you, but i think it would benefit you for me to respond as you might realize the error of your ways.

>>>This thread was a good idea<<<

To which i agreed with (mostly)

>>>Since you started posting, Dalmatio69, the thread has taken an immature turn.<<<

Whos fault is this? Not mine. As Super_Member put it, some people could not agree with opinion, so resorted to immature posting. Meanwhile i did nothing of the sort.

>>>You make accusations,<<<

Which accusations? Me accusing Dexceus of insulting me? His comment clearly seemed that way to me. Me accusing Heroclixrules of being immature? Wait, he was. Calling me an ### (yes, it is censored) and hypocritical when i did nothing even close is grounds for me calling him out on it.

>>>can't take criticism<<<

What criticism? Being called hypocritical and an ###, based off nothing mind you, is no constructive criticism.

>>>and come across in a "flaming" manner.<<<

Never once did i flame anyone. I have yet to saying anything to put down anyone (except perhaps when i say "Are you people that blind?"...but it is in my defense).

>>>While others are trying to post insightful views they have to take a timeout to post a thread to correct you or defend themselves from your accusations and statements.<<<

No. My opinion conflicted with the general idea of this thread, and they attacked me. Any and every thread should be up to debate.

>>>From reading your posts in this thread it seems (IMHO) that your only reason to initially post and keep on posting is to cause turmoil where none existed. <<<

No. It was to give my opinion as to the whole meaning of this thread, and what i thought should be done instead to solve the presented problem. Yet your post, and Heroclixrules' post, was meant only to make me seem to be some sort of bad guy here.

>>>If you can't have an intelligent conversation then PLEASE do NOT be part of the problem!<<<

Id give you the same advice, but youd probally would come back with more baseless accusations of your own.

azbats

03/19/2003, 21:39

First off, I came very close to actually quitting the game. I haven't posted in many, many months, although I have checked in from time to time. I was all hyped up and looking at maybe even trying to become a judge, but I had a terrible event occur in my life, and well...the clix had to go, at least for a little while. A few weeks back, I decided that I wanted to jump back in, having weathered a difficult time in my life. I wanted to post....but all that I ever read was a lot of yelling, complaining and downright whining. Not every post, mind you, but a lot. When I came across this thread, it was nice to see that poeple can act like adults and converse without blasting each other. I really like to play this game. I can't wait for the new sets to come out, a lot of the new figs look great. But it is a breath of fresh air to hear people behaving like mature adults. For all of those who fall into that group (and you know who you are), thank you for bringing me back to a game which I really enjoy and that I look forward to playing for a long time. :D

bizzaro

03/19/2003, 21:54

bizzaro

03/19/2003, 22:01

Originally posted by rjh16
I hate all you mfer's.

don't like what I said tough ####!!
What are you gonna do report me for saying bad words, you guys are all over the legal drinking age so why don't you pussies just grow up yourself and quit #####ing about #### like immature people.

When I'm your age I'll laugh as I see you withering away in a nursing home with no control over your bowels! playing heroclix with an invisible person while I on the other hand will no be a #####y little ##### like you guys!!

Ah. Another arrogant kid who also mouthed off alot in school and got his ### handed to him frequently. I'm glad the internet has finally provided you with the type of anonymity you've been searching for to be a jack### without fear of repercussion.

Adspirit

03/19/2003, 22:48

So ok the way I see this thread is..... A bunch of guys that collect little plastic toys, read comics, mostly about superheros, sitting in front of computers connected to the internet at (what time is it), discussing maturity. But because of their lack of the subject matter the whole things busted up into an immature slinging match of which now I have now somehow been conned into makeing a token contribution.

Give me a break.

shin-goji

03/19/2003, 22:55

You're welcome Adspirit. I'm glad we could give you purpose in life. I'm glad that as a guy who collects litle plastic toys you could join our discussion on maturity ;)

Adspirit

03/19/2003, 23:05

But you won't tell anybody......right.....I mean I have a wife and a kid and an upstanding reputation in the community at stake here. If word got out that I had subscribed immaturely to this maturity thread my political career (if I had one) would be in tatters. Oh no I want my mommy.

Now Monica if you would just pass me one of those cigars there and I'll show you a magic trick I learned a few years back oooops am I still on li..

Super_Member

03/19/2003, 23:54

Dexceus, I don't know if you are serious or not. I don't know what the statement means if weren't "insulting" him. But I'll trust you because you don't seem to be that bad of a person. I would be nice if you put a "clarification" on what you meant by it though.

Dalmatio69 while I agree that you may insulted if not by Dexceus, there were others who made personal attacks against you, but there is no need to rub it in their noses. Most of us are adults here, even still we are prone to make mistakes. I think they saw you as a person who was trying to "stop or turn this thread in a flame war" or a person who was trying to "impose your opinion" which would have spoiled some of the fun they were having here. We tend to look at other's opinions slighted, I think it was just a misunderstading. It isn't like he is like rjh16 or picard.
:)

I think a bigger problem with these message boards is that, even though, some people will post "this sucks" type of messages. That those who reply to those threads respond in the exact same way.

Like *cough*shin-goji*cough. Excuse me, now I like you shin-goji, and your arguments with Thanoiseid are legendary but are also the prime examples of what shouldn't go on on these message boards. Let all of Thanoseid's messages drop to the bottom of the board that would probaly hurt him more. No doubt that he started everything and that he shouldn't be able to get away with it blah blah. His comments wouldn't look so bad if people weren't offended by them.

Increase the peace :) and Ingore the grammer;) I had to type this quick.

shin-goji

03/20/2003, 10:34

No problem. I've already decided to give up my beef with Thanosied and Brazil. There are starving Ethernopians who can use the beef a lot more than the forums can :)

Ro-gan

03/20/2003, 12:10

I will admit I was wrong in blaming just you. It does take 2 or more people to fight/disagree/not get along.

When I wrote my thread it was about 4 am and I was working a Midnight Shift at work. My mind gets kind of mushy at that time after only sleeping 4 hours between my previous midnight shift.

And, Picard and rjh16:

I am 33 with a job that pulls in over $60K/year. I have a wife that is beautiful and smart. We also now have a beautiful baby boy as of January. We live in our own home that cost us $320,000. I have been playing ALL kinds of games since i was 7. I enjoy playing games. Whether they be board games, puzzles, RPG's, CCG's or Hero Clix.

You are not going to change me because of your immature and unintelligent statements that are very stereotypical to say the least.

When you grow up then maybe you can join in the conversation. Until then please go back to sitting at the computer all day because apparently you both don't have the social skills (as apparent by your statements!) to fit into normal society.

And I do realize this is a flaming and immature statement on my part to you, but honestly, I don't think you would understand a reasoned and kind response.

So, with that in mind, I also apologize to Dexceus who started this mature thread and the other mature members who have been a part of this thread.

"I am sorry."

Cosmic Crow

03/21/2003, 21:01

I am new this web page and I am confused.I have always been facinated by miniatures of any kind of comic characters.I even have the extremely tiny ones of the JLA and TITANS that were put out umpteen years ago.I think they were made by some gaming co.I have been a comic book collecter for a long time.I quit,sadly,when they just got to expensive.When I first heard of the Heroclix release I was anxious to see what they would look like.I liked what I saw,and I started collecting them.I now have,trades pending,complete sets of both Marvels and the DC set.I have no earthly idea how to play the game...maybe one day I'll learn,I just like the figures.I have the first issue of the Fantastic Four,Amazing Fantasy 15,Avengers,Iron man,Daredevil...etc.With all that is going on in Irac and North Korea I cannot believe what I am reading about a game with little plastic pieces.Don't get me wrong,I love the Heroclix,I am waiting for X-P,Cosmic Justice,and even the new Indys......but I realise and know that this is just a game.Lets see if we can change all the hostility and insults and channel it in to something more constructive.Jeez...I sound like a politician,here,but I hope you understand what I mean.Long live Heroclix and comic books!

Cosmic Crow

03/21/2003, 21:02

Cosmic Crow

03/21/2003, 21:14

Post Script:
Comic books keep adapting to bring in the younger generation.In todays world,you have to adapt to how the younger generation talks.God bless the kids for keeping comic books going for as long as they have.Maturity is not an issue here,Survival is.Can I have an amen!:grin: :grin:

Thwap Man

03/21/2003, 21:57

I'm in the middle ground between Dex and Dalmatio. I think Dalmatio has several points that he tried to be mature and got flamed. I think Dex is right that there should be maturity on the boards. I do agree that this is a good way to do it, that it can be better to tell the people before complaining to the moderators. The "you must be proud post" was an insult unless you weren't actually sarcastic about it. But it really looks like you were dripping in a puddle of sarcasm there.
All in all, I agree with the original point of the thread. I should be able to, and in fact should say "V Hobgoblin really sucks" as long as I follow it up with something like "because he costs so many points for just incapacitate."
On the subject of maturity, if somehow I've insulted someone or misinterpreted something, let me know, I didn't mean it.

Dalmatio69

03/21/2003, 22:01

Originally posted by Super_Member
Dalmatio69 while I agree that you may insulted if not by Dexceus, there were others who made personal attacks against you, but there is no need to rub it in their noses.

I didnt mean to do that. If it seemed that way i apologize.

kraven

03/22/2003, 00:08

Originally posted by azs
This thread is poo.

hey, someone had to say it.

Amen to that azs!

The Xmen do suck, so deal with it!

and yes that is an opinon and yes i do know that there popular, but saying that just because someone gives thier opinion, there inmature HA HA:devious:

shin-goji

03/22/2003, 00:58

No, this thread is borken!!!

shin-goji

03/22/2003, 00:58

No, this thread is borken!!!

rjh16

03/22/2003, 21:07

I am 33 with a job that pulls in over $60K/year. I have a wife that is beautiful and smart. We also now have a beautiful baby boy as of January. We live in our own home that cost us $320,000. I have been playing ALL kinds of games since i was 7. I enjoy playing games. Whether they be board games, puzzles, RPG's, CCG's or Hero Clix.

Ya and I bet you owe thousands of dollars in debt to.
I am so freakin proud you have a hot wife some kids and big ### house. That still doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of 30-50 year olds calling me immature because I say a figure sucks when they themselves are playing a game meant for young children to teens.

HAWKMAN SUCKS!!

Adrian Toomes is the best taxy in HC!!

bullseye100

03/22/2003, 21:14

what--this game is meant for all ages--anyone can play--what is your problem??

Ro-gan

03/23/2003, 11:24

rjh16 said:
"Ya and I bet you owe thousands of dollars in debt to.
I am so freakin proud you have a hot wife some kids and big ### house. That still doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of 30-50 year olds calling me immature because I say a figure sucks when they themselves are playing a game meant for young children to teens."

rjh16,

On your first point, I do not owe any money and I am not in debt. A great education (so stay in school is one moral here) and wise investments (don't waste your money until you have money to waste is a second moral) allowed me to "have my cake and eat it too."

On your second point, no one is calling you immature because you say a figure sucks. Some are calling you immature because of the way you say it AND how childish you come across in your posts.

You can't just say a figure sucks without backing it up with reasonable arguments on how you reached this conclusion. Well, you can say it, but it comes across as very uneducated and immature. And if you are going to disagree, then disagree maturely. Every post you made to this thread has been VERY immature and uneducated, to say the least.

A good example is your "signature." And I quote: "HAWKMAN SUCKS!!"

Why does he suck? Or better yet, are you talking about the comic book character or the hero clix version.

If the comic book character, which one? Post or Pre-Crisis? Silver Age, Golden Age, or the updated and "fixed" Geoff Johns version?

If the Hero Clix version, which one? R? E? V? or LE?

I have the LE version of Hawkman and I think he works great in the games I play. He is a taxi and a good fighter. This is of course my own opinion.

And everyone is entitled to an opinion. But in the real world just because everyone is entitled to an opinion that does NOT mean that you can just express your opinion without facing some sort of recourse or backlash. Especially if your opinion is not backed by substantial facts.

When you (or anyone for that matter) say: "x sucks" and don't give reasons then don't complain when x people call you on your unsubstantiated statement.

And on your third point, who said this game is supposed to be played by young children to teens? I don't recall seeing this anywhere in the rules or FAQ's.

Maybe (and this is just my opinion) you are getting beat in this game by adults who treat this game like a chess game or a combat scenario. Maybe you don't like the fact that because the older people playing this game have more experience and more patience then the older people will do better in this game (or any game) than someone who has no experience and/or no patience.

I have a good personal example about the impatience of the young. My one friend's pre-teen son is playing chess now. He is actually really good and has great potential to win competitions, but I can beat him every time because he lacks patience. I just sit back and take my time (using the last second of the official time limit). He can't stand to wait for me to go and then starts to make moves he normally wouldn't have because of his impatience and frustration with me for taking my time and making him wait a long time between moves.

Maybe you just don't like older people for another reason. I don't know. Why don't you enlighten us why you feel this game is only meant for "young children to teens."

But please come across with reasoned explanations and opinions. Please don't just reply: "Older people suck!"

shin-goji

03/23/2003, 14:12

What sad is this kid is railing against us because as old fogeys we are getting in his way of playing and collecting Hero-clix, somehow. Yet he'll be our age, doing the same thing that he's threatening us with. he has a greater fascination with bowels than I do, and I write a comic strip where japanese monsters poop candy.

Adrian Toomes is BROKEN!!!!

GoldenAge

03/24/2003, 13:35

I hate all you mfer's. You're all 30-50 year old losers spending your tiny paychecks on Heroclix hoping to get some shine in your life you haven't had since the 70's. Get a life and leave HC for the younger generation!!

Careful you little twit :devious:

Some of us are pretty successful people who just happen to have a hobby centered around comic books. It doesn't mean anything else.
You should think a bit before you post such garbage. If you're enjoying comic books and HeroClix then you should thank guys our age. Do you really think a 16-year-old is out there creating these products for your consumption?
Watch yourself in public forums too. There may come a time after you put away your toys and get your GED when you attempt a career in whatever makes you happy. Then you'll have to come to guys like us and beg for a handout.
Life's funny you know, little stuff you vomit up now may come back to punish you in the future and you'll only have yourself to blame.
Much success to you.

darius_dax1

03/24/2003, 13:53

Originally posted by rjh16
I hate all you mfer's. You're all 30-50 year old losers spending your tiny paychecks on Heroclix hoping to get some shine in your life you haven't had since the 70's. Get a life and leave HC for the younger generation!!

HAWKMAN SUCKS AND IMMATURE PEOPLE WILL RULE THE WORLD!!

don't like what I said tough ####!!
What are you gonna do report me for saying bad words, you guys are all over the legal drinking age so why don't you pussies just grow up yourself and quit #####ing about #### like immature people.

When I'm your age I'll laugh as I see you withering away in a nursing home with no control over your bowels! playing heroclix with an invisible person while I on the other hand will no be a #####y little ##### like you guys!!

Wow. Point in case for this thread in the first place. Swearing constantly like the above example proves a lack of education and language usage. I mean nobody's perfect, I still let loose a few f-bombs from time to time, but I am finding it more and more unacceptable as I mature.

As far as when you are our age...You will find that as time passes certain things will change in your attitude, and if they don't...good luck because you will need it.

This game and comic books exist because people in my age group are mostly responsible for keeping the companies afloat. The comic-reading audience is getting older and older as time goes on because the younger generations are interested in other things. Things like video games, television, movies, booze, drugs, guns, etc... Also my generation has the disposable income to buy the comics and games in the quantities necessary to keep producing them, something your generation, at your current age, cannot do.

GoldenAge

03/24/2003, 15:01

I firmly believe that HC is a game ment for 10-17 year olds. All those 30 year olds who play let me ask you this. Are you typing in your parents basement where you probobly live? If you are then you probobly never left 15. If you don't, why do you spend your money on little action figures? Listlen to this If you can't take the complain then don't play the game.

Now, now Picard,
Why do I spend my money on anything? :p
I've purchased dumber things than little plastic figures... lets see, tech stock in the mid 1990's??? :cry:
Why would you deny me my hobby, would you feel better if I had a hobby like sailing? Well I don't (though I do live in a lake community and own a sea-ray ski boat - FUN) or maybe Mountain Climbing? Sorry, no to that too (though I do go to Breckenridge or Vail CO. each year for a little skiing and snow-bunny ogling).
Is comic book collecting okay? I've been doing that since 1977. How about comic book ART collecting (you know... prints, original artwork, etc.)? Doing that as well.
HeroClix is just another thread of my love of comic books.
Looks like we may have something in common. Why not band together and celebrate our similarities instead of tossing about insults?

ShadowRaven

03/24/2003, 16:01

that 16 year is a disgrace to his and my generation, I'm 16 and I feel exactly the oppisite of him. you might want to heed their words, or you'll end up nowhere.

darius_dax1

03/24/2003, 16:06

Originally posted by ShadowRaven
that 16 year is a disgrace to his and my generation, I'm 16 and I feel exactly the oppisite of him. you might want to heed their words, or you'll end up nowhere.

Well said!!!

GoldenAge

03/24/2003, 16:23

that 16 year is a disgrace to his and my generation, I'm 16 and I feel exactly the oppisite of him. you might want to heed their words, or you'll end up nowhere.

Thanks ShadowRaven.
I know you are the silent majority. I'm proud that you decided to speak up. The Comic Book industry needs new, positive fans like you. I hope you can enjoy this genre as long as I have!
Preach the good fight!

rjh16

03/24/2003, 19:09

Ya, you guys are pretty lame. Why don't you grow up? Get a life and read the rest of my threads before you make a dumb uninformed comment about the threads that you did read.

Muddge13

03/24/2003, 19:30

IM RUBBER AND UR GLUE WHAT EVERY YOU SAY WILL BOUNCE OFF OF ME AND STICK TO YOU!!!!

STICK AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONEs.... but whips and chains exite me....

NNNAH NAHH A BOO BOO STICK YOUR HEAD IN DOO DOO .

sorry had to post this kinda of stuff.:laugh:

MasterWolverin

03/24/2003, 19:31

I feel very sad about the world sit today. I am a teen and play HC in order to have fun. I'm afraid that this site is a sesspool of people who constantly bicker about things "Marvel is better than DC, Old people are better than young" It's sad to see so many ppl just contradicting one another instead of getting along. I fear that TV and war have desensitised us all that we will end up just an emotionless socity of zombies constantly bickering amoungs themselves. I feel that everyone has a right to play HC just as everyone has a right to play chess. Rjh16 please: IF YOU HAVE AN OPOION PLEASE ATTEMPT TO KEEP IT CLEAN INSTEAD OF CALLING EVERYONE A NAME!!! ur a perfect example of the bane of my existence, other teens who perfer to swear or quote movies at a situation instead of using their brains!!!

darius_dax1

03/24/2003, 20:23

Originally posted by rjh16
Ya, you guys are pretty lame. Why don't you grow up? Get a life and read the rest of my threads before you make a dumb uninformed comment about the threads that you did read.

Well see the thing is I did read your other posts, they were all pretty much the same in this thread. Immature at best, but usually bordering on moronic.

As far as uninformed comments go, take a serios, un-biased look at what you have posted here. You should give pause to your attitude.

Learn from others whether they are older or younger, it doesn't matter as long as they have something to teach. Respect is something that has to be earned but courtesy should be given freely.

Picard

03/24/2003, 21:26

Amazing how my little comment can get all you ####en geezers so mad.
Clix for the young

Picard

03/24/2003, 21:27

Amazing how my little comment can get all you ####en geezers so mad.
Clix for the young:devious:

Picard

03/24/2003, 21:27

Amazing how my little comment can get all you ####en geezers so mad.
Clix for the young:devious:

Picard

03/24/2003, 21:29

sorry for the double post

MasterWolverin

03/24/2003, 22:18

Yea like everyone was PO'd by that and not what u said. U said u liked Pokemon? Obviously ur just a fad monkey trying to keep adults from having fun because they kick ur arse every time. U know, it's teens like u that make older people mad at other teens like me and make us listen to those progams on school violence and other things like that. :angry:

Ro-gan

03/25/2003, 06:56

rjh16 said:

"Ya, you guys are pretty lame. Why don't you grow up? Get a life and read the rest of my threads before you make a dumb uninformed comment about the threads that you did read."

I will say that I have read some of your comments and posts on other threads and they still come across as childish, immature and uninformed.

darius_dax1

03/25/2003, 08:49

Originally posted by Picard
Amazing how my little comment can get all you ####en geezers so mad.
Clix for the young:devious:

Who's mad? I'm just disappointed that you whipper-snappers can't act your age or better (this doesn't apply to all teens, there have been some very mature teens posting here). You want to have a voice and be respected, yet you act like this? RESPECT IS EARNED. Why wouldn't adults dismiss what you say? Imagine a pre-teen or younger giving you the same attitude. How would you respond to them? Until you are able to communicate in a cordial and intelligent manner there is no reason to pay heed to your opinion.

And as far as clix or comiucs being for the young:
What would you have society do? Take away all of your comics, clix or other games/toys when you turn 18 ala 'Logan's Run'? Just remember, someday you will be a geezer too and be subject to the same standard you would try to impose on us.

shin-goji

03/25/2003, 10:42

Originally posted by rjh16
Ya, you guys are pretty lame. Why don't you grow up? Get a life and read the rest of my threads before you make a dumb uninformed comment about the threads that you did read.

In every generation there is a point in evolution where the cro-magnon monkey discovers the jawbone of a donkey can be used as a club. He rises above all the other ill-informed cro-magnons and clubs his way to the top of the evolutionary ladder. rjh16 is not one of those monkeys. He's fairly content to waddle in his own filth, and will happily void into his own hand to fling it at the charging rampaging sabretooth tiger. rjh16 is destined to become a piece of flotsom wedged in between the teeth of a large predator like so much Wheezy Cheeze. If he survives to old age, which is unlikely, other poo-flinging primates will harass him and steal his Pokemon collection, claiming they are "for the young and not for the fogeys."

Random

03/25/2003, 12:51

So Shin, is rjh16 your new thanosied? I have seen several posts here latley of you two taking digs at each other. wat up wit dat? ( not that I care, just curious)

don't wann make thanosied think you're cheating on him do ya?

shin-goji

03/25/2003, 14:39

Man, Thanosied and I broke up. I caught him arguing with someone else and I kicked him to the curb and threw all his clothes out onto the street.

Annihillus

03/25/2003, 16:33

Does anybody remember Hulkman523? He left the realms becaues "eveyone was mean to him." The fact was, barely anybody was mean to him, and if anybody did, it was because of his maturite, or rather lack of it. He then went around insulting everyone much like Picard has. Of course, his post were extremely hard to read, lacking any punctuation and he couldn't take the time to spell out simple words like YOU, ARE and PEOPLE. Its not that he wasn't competent, it's just he was lazy. And being lazy isn't going to get you any respect, especially here, so it was likely his fault if anybody got mad at him.

Annihillus

03/25/2003, 16:33

Picard

03/25/2003, 20:02

Originally posted by Annihillus
He then went around insulting everyone much like Picard has.
thank you that is the nicest thing any realms person ever siad about me #######.
Immiturity rules
be as immature as you want rjh16

darius_dax1

03/26/2003, 14:06

Originally posted by Picard
thank you that is the nicest thing any realms person ever siad about me #######.
Immiturity rules
be as immature as you want rjh16

Immaturity may rule in your world but it also doesn't help your spelling one iota!

GoldenAge

03/26/2003, 14:30

Immiturity rules

Bah, puny Hulk-brained child like to smash, no think!

Put on your pink rabbit slippers, eat your beans and be a good little squirt. Leave the thinking to those of who are much more adept.

darius_dax1

03/26/2003, 14:51

GA,

How could you have SIAD that to him? He likes his IMMITURITY.

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 20:06

I would like to retract just a little of what I said earlier.I stated that Heroclix was based on the younger generation,WRONG!I figured it out a day after I had sent this message.Heroclix are for folk of all generations.Anybody who has ever enjoyed reading comic books would be thrilled to actually put their favorite characters into competition with the other villains/heroes of the comic world.Instead of reading the outcome you could actually create your own outcome.I stand corrected and I apologize to all of the "not so young"comic book fans such as myself.I hope the clix goes on for everyone.

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 20:13

P.S.
A lot of people...no offense,need to take a few spelling lessons.

Basil Elks

03/26/2003, 20:33

Wat ewe meen spelleng lessuns? :cheeky:

darius_dax1

03/26/2003, 21:02

Well said!

WarXMachine

03/26/2003, 21:21

my god the testosterone runs high in this thread. whats with all the little kids insulting everyone older than them for doing the same things they do? do they have a losing complex? whats wrong with these kids?
you should always know you roots, know where this stuff came from rather than bag on someone because they have been reading comics for 30 years.... ask them some questions.... like why did namor lose his ankle wings? (since namor isn't a heroclick i doubt you even know who he is). are you the same kids that scream obscenities at the elderly for driving slow, when without the elderly you would be speaking german and killing gazelle witha freaking club? you should have more respect for people who just plain know more about life then you... i hope you look back one day and realize that your attitude not only is self-destructive... your dragging people down with you, and accomplishing nothing, your ranting and raving isn't going to get these people to stop playing clix... they just don't like you and could care less about what you have to say....
before you freak out because there is another "old person" posting on the board, i'll just tell you, i am 20 yo (thats not very old, you'll see when you get there) and i am a nurse, i am succesful and i play clix... so, mr. i am going to be so succesful... you should watch the bridges you burn go up in smoke with everyones respect for everything you say, or have ever said.

darius_dax1

03/26/2003, 21:47

Well said yet again.

I believe this thread was started by someone who was asking about maturity and saying that some were not acting their age. Why then would one respond by sayin, "Nyah nyah. I'm immature."?

Makes no sense...other than to try to get an arousal out of somebody else. Lesson to be learned, kiddies: "Don't wake a sleeping giant".

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 21:51

Life is good.

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 21:53

P.S.
If you ever plan to write a check.....spelling,or they will come after you.

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 21:54

If you ever plan to write a check....spelling may be a good thing.

Cosmic Crow

03/26/2003, 22:08

If it weren't for people like me...you would have no Heroclix.No comics,no movies about comic books,no TV shows about comic books.NO COMIC BOOKS!!
Before you flap your gums,think about where you are.You are enjoying this game solely because of people like me.Folks who loved the comics like me to keep them going as long as we have.If it weren't for us....you would probably be playing checkers.
Can I have an AMEN!

bizzaro

03/26/2003, 23:01

Amen

Beetle

03/27/2003, 01:43

The thing is once a forum gets to the level that hcrealms is at with a majority of users it gets hard to keep the boards postitive. It's up to the users...and frankly...once someone finds a place they can stir up things and cause arguments they are going to stay there as long as they get a response...which is basically what this thread is doing in the first place. The key? Ignore negativity. Don't post. They'll quit talking to. Anyway, thats my two cents....see ya i'm going home now.

bizarrome

03/27/2003, 01:59

Why is saying a figure sucks negativity?? Aftr all if a person feels a fig got robbed on his stats or the sculpt was awful and they say it sucked and why it sucked, why is it negative?? How many people feel the first REV of Daredevil got robbed by not having leap climb?? About as many that feel the new versions sculpt bites. Why is it wrong to express this?? Why is it wrong to say it stinks or bites, or sucks because they are always doing new Electras, Wolverines, Spidermans, and Hulks, and most people want more opportunities to get new figs they don't have. Okay, I know there are different versions, and some should be made. But how many Electras does a person need??

I have found that many people on this forum feel it is their duty to convence you they are right and you must come around and see it their way. Or you will not know true happiness. This is what truly sucks....

Ro-gan

03/27/2003, 03:17

bizarrome,

Nobody is saying negativity sucks.

What the majority of us in this thread are saying is that negativity should be backed up with reasons/facts/opinions.

In your post you gave articuable reasons why you think certain characters got hosed.

Unlike rjh16 who can only say x sucks! and leave it at that. This serves no purpose except to show a lack of intelligence and tact.

When a person wants to give his/her opinion then the opinion should be backed with reasons because when there is blood in the water the sharks will circle and strike relentlessly.

That was, and to a point still is, the purpose of this thread. To use maturity and reasoning in voicing your opinion(s). I might be off, but just read the very first post by Dexceus. He explains his reasons for starting this thread.

Basil Elks

03/27/2003, 11:57

I LOVE being immature!!! :laugh:

Ro-gan

03/27/2003, 19:43

Ro-gan

03/27/2003, 19:45

Don't get me wrong. I am definitely not against immaturity. My wife & friends constantly remind me that even though my age might be 33, I act like a 6 year old ALOT.

I think of it as just having fun and reminding myself that I didn't forget my childhood yet.

Immaturity has a time and place.

Good time:

You are out with friends and having a good time.

Bad Time:

You are a Defense attorney and you are trying to get your client out of a Murder charge that has a Death Penalty possible.

But in the attorney's case I guess I could act like rjh16 and just tell the jury: "This sucks! Let my guy go."

And in rjh16's world the jury will give him a standing ovation for his intelligent argument and free his client of all charges.

Ro-gan

03/27/2003, 19:47

OOPS! Having trouble with my computer. Posted twice by mistake. Sorry about that.

Basil Elks

03/27/2003, 20:08

BAD JOKE ALERT!!!!

Q: Why did the Chef those some spices out the window?
A: He wanted to see Thyme fly.

:rolleyes: :cheeky: :disappoin :laugh: :sleep: :knockedou :confused: :ermm:

Cosmic Crow

03/27/2003, 21:03

Apparently my message fell of deaf ears.Perhaps it's today's youth.I have kept comics going since the 60's.You can come at me with all of your "hip-hop,psuedo rock & roll"(just plain garbage)....but if it wasn't for people like me,you guys would be darning your socks.

Ro-gan

03/28/2003, 00:42

Cosmic Crow:

You have kept comics going sice the 60's? Well, you have me beat by a decade.

IMHO, I wish I would have skipped the late 80's-early to mid-90's. Carp, carp, carp!

darius_dax1

03/28/2003, 00:54

Yeah, he's got me beat by a decade as well. But I think we are coming from the same point of view.

Basil Elks

03/28/2003, 12:05

Zest, not only does it work on skin, but it works on clothes, too! :laugh: :grin:

Basil Elks

03/28/2003, 13:41

*FRRT* *sniff, sniff* whew, what'd I eat?

rjh16

03/28/2003, 15:20

Hey ro-gan. Go to hell!

If I feel the need to back my ideas up with facts I will, but this is a message board filled with people I will probably never meet so I don't feel that I have to be mature about everything I say. I also believe that I shouldn't have to back up my opinions because if a figure really isn't that good then it should be obvious. Another thing I never said that HC hawkman sucked I said the Comic character sucked.

HAWKMAN SUCKS AND IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT GO TO HELL!!!

darius_dax1

03/28/2003, 20:22

Originally posted by rjh16
Hey ro-gan. Go to hell!

If I feel the need to back my ideas up with facts I will, but this is a message board filled with people I will probably never meet so I don't feel that I have to be mature about everything I say. I also believe that I shouldn't have to back up my opinions because if a figure really isn't that good then it should be obvious. Another thing I never said that HC hawkman sucked I said the Comic character sucked.

HAWKMAN SUCKS AND IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT GO TO HELL!!!

This is exactly what this threadis about. Man, you really need to grow up.

drop19

03/28/2003, 20:56

Originally posted by rjh16

If I feel the need to back my ideas up with facts I will, but this is a message board filled with people I will probably never meet so I don't feel that I have to be mature about everything I say.
Yet you get mad at others because they don't respect your shennanigans. Either you want the negative attention or you expect people to think you are funny. The fact that you feel the need to express yourself in a public venue would back that up.

I also believe that I shouldn't have to back up my opinions because if a figure really isn't that good then it should be obvious.
Yet several people seem to disagree with you. If you made an intelligent statement about the situation then yes it would be obvious. Others back up their opinions with statements and evidence while you back yours up with insults. If someone is trying to present you with evidence and you don't want to hear it then why are you bothering to post in a discussion forum? It would seem you don't want to hear anyone else's opinion, just spout off about your own. If you won't put the effort into arguing a point and backing up your statements then don't expect anyone to respect them.

(And yes, I'm in my late 20s and I have been reading comics for over 2 decades, so you may feel absolutely free to discount my opinions and insult me).

Ro-gan

03/28/2003, 23:36

Once again rjh16 demonstrates completely and without a doubt that exuberance is wasted on the youth.

rjh16: you never said the comic book character of Hawkman sucked. Your "signature" used to and still does read that "...Hawkman sucks.."

Nowhere in the signature does it say you are referring to the comic book character.

So I guess we can add liar or delusional to your attrocious character traits.

I hope one day you do grow up mentally. Otherwise I feel sorry for those around you.

shin-goji

03/29/2003, 00:05

Originally posted by rjh16
Hey ro-gan. Go to hell!

If I feel the need to back my ideas up with facts I will, but this is a message board filled with people I will probably never meet so I don't feel that I have to be mature about everything I say. I also believe that I shouldn't have to back up my opinions because if a figure really isn't that good then it should be obvious. Another thing I never said that HC hawkman sucked I said the Comic character sucked.

HAWKMAN SUCKS AND IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT GO TO HELL!!!

Actually, if anyone cares to do a search on your posts, which I did, you really did say Hawkman the Hero-Clix s*cked. You went on and on about how the Vulture was better and you wouldn't use Hawkman if your Hero-Clix championship career depended on it. Good thing it doesn't.