View Full Version : A debate for Manchine...
Spinebreaker
03/19/2003, 21:30
Hey...
You asked for what I think is wrong with X-plosion so we could have a debate... well...
I don't really have a lot of problems with PerpleXplosion...
Elektra : Asassin is slightly absurd...
Sauron could have done with Brotherhood affiliation.
Mystique with a couple of clicks of shapechange (Not taking the place of Perplex and stealth, both great choices) would have been nice...
Smoke cloud and Force Blast for Storm would have been nice...
But they're not problems really The ONE thing I'm unhappy about...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
sorry went off on one slightly...
(Please be aware this is a specific thread requested by Manchine... I asure you I'm not complaining...)
(no, really, I'm not)
shin-goji
03/19/2003, 21:36
Hmm, Sauron was never a Brotherhood member, last time I checked. I don't read Elektra: Assassin, but a lot of other people do who say that this is ana ccurate representation. Shapechange is a very useless power. It barely works for the Skrulls and they're one of my favs. Stealth works JUST fine. Storm works rather well too as is. But that's just my opinion.
Dalmatio69
03/19/2003, 21:41
I agree with most of that Spinebreaker.
But are the stats for the E Scorpion out yet? I thought one of them was unaccounted for, which might be on the SS.
Also i disagree with you on perplex, and i think the incredibly cheap con-artists will be abused far to much.
The Stinger
03/19/2003, 21:44
Force blast and smoke cloud would have been great additions for storm, if only they would incorporate all abilities between the DC and Marvel sets. Great representations of wind and fog respectively.
Definate agreement with Scorpion needing SS team ability. he's one of Spidey's enemies from waaay back. How they missed that is beyond me.....
Elektra is okay, its an accurate representation of the character in the limited series.
Sauron WAS affiliated with the brotherhood at one time I believe, so he could have used the free move team ability from them. Brotherhood needs some taxis badly as well.
shin-goji
03/19/2003, 21:45
Here's another thing. Sauron fed on the energy of mutants. Dracula doesn't work for the Hellsing organization. you don't give the Grand Dragon of the KKK a pass to the NAACP awards, and you don't let Sauron into the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.
Spinebreaker
03/19/2003, 21:45
Sauron was a Brotherhood member when it was led by Toad... I just reckon the Brotherhood need a new flier.
Stealth and Perplex IS fine for Mystique, but would it have hurt the figure to be 5 points more expensive and have 2 clicks of shapechange at the end??? Just as a last minute thing. Of COURSE I don't think she shouldn't have Stealth and perplex, but just that little shapechange at the end would be a nice Last minute effort and fits the character.
Elektra is a good representation of that particular series but not of her as she is as a part of the MArvel Universe. Boomerang Flies in most comics through Jet boots, but he doesn't fly in clicks...
A flying boomerang is a good representation from ONE comic, a non-flying on is a good representation of the character as a whole.
Storm is good, But I really expected smoke cloud (for mist) and Force Blast (for wind), the character's GOOD as she is, I just think she could have been Perfect.
All the people complaining about the Con Artists, ahve you forgotten about Nightcrawler? He is a god of destroying generic clix. Or what about Boom-Boom/Meltdown. She is cheap with EE. She is meant to take the little bastards out.
Mastermind
03/19/2003, 21:46
As a fan of the Brotherhood, I will say that Sauron was part of the Brotherhood. He was affiliated with them during the time Toad ran the group (the other members were Pyro, Blob, Phantazia, and Sauron.)
Chet
Dalmatio69
03/19/2003, 21:51
Originally posted by Agent_X
All the people complaining about the Con Artists, ahve you forgotten about Nightcrawler? He is a god of destroying generic clix. Or what about Boom-Boom/Meltdown. She is cheap with EE. She is meant to take the little bastards out.
But do you want to pay 83 points for a figure to take on a few 11-17 point figures? Plus, 2 damage would actually put the veteran (and maybe experienced) onto thier perplex clicks.
These guys are just to cheap and will be extremly powerful in numbers.
Spinebreaker
03/19/2003, 21:59
>>>These guys are just to cheap and will be extremly powerful in numbers.<<<
Go look at some posts from before Clobberin' Time came out.
Look at the HUNDREDS of posts declaring that Doombots would be incredibly cheap. and incredibly broken.
Look at the HUNDREDS of threads declaring Logan and Spiral to be broken.
Look at the HUNDREDS of threads declaring Vampire Lackeys unfair because they were cheap BCF.
In the end we discovered NONE of it was true...
I think you'll find much the same with X-Plosion, expecially the con artists... They'll be dead in one shot or your opponent will just leave 'em alone, meaning you have to push 'em, so they get KO-d even MORE easily...
Originally posted by Spinebreaker
Hey...
You asked for what I think is wrong with X-plosion so we could have a debate... well...
I don't really have a lot of problems with PerpleXplosion...
Elektra : Asassin is slightly absurd...
>>> It does fit the version of her in Elektra: Assassin
Sauron could have done with Brotherhood affiliation.
>>> I don't recall when Sauron was with the Brotherhood. Magneto wasn't really with the brotherhood when he was in the Savage Land.
Mystique with a couple of clicks of shapechange (Not taking the place of Perplex and stealth, both great choices) would have been nice...
>>> I totally agree here ...
Smoke cloud and Force Blast for Storm would have been nice...
>>> Again ... good points.
But they're not problems really The ONE thing I'm unhappy about...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
SCORPION - SINISTER SYNDICATE...
>>> I actually recall the story where he was with the Masters of Evil. I guess I'd have liked to have had the Vet be Sinister Syndicate.
sorry went off on one slightly...
(Please be aware this is a specific thread requested by Manchine... I asure you I'm not complaining...)
(no, really, I'm not)
The Stinger
03/20/2003, 01:46
Originally posted by Spinebreaker
>>>These guys are just to cheap and will be extremly powerful in numbers.<<<
Go look at some posts from before Clobberin' Time came out.
Look at the HUNDREDS of posts declaring that Doombots would be incredibly cheap. and incredibly broken.
Look at the HUNDREDS of threads declaring Logan and Spiral to be broken.
Look at the HUNDREDS of threads declaring Vampire Lackeys unfair because they were cheap BCF.
In the end we discovered NONE of it was true...
I think you'll find much the same with X-Plosion, expecially the con artists... They'll be dead in one shot or your opponent will just leave 'em alone, meaning you have to push 'em, so they get KO-d even MORE easily...
This is a great point here. There have already been cases where members have rushed to judgement on some of these figures, before even playing them in a game situation. A lot of things look really good or really bad on paper, but until you actually use them in a game, its all speculation.
Good call Spinebreaker, I think we are on the same page on this particular issue.
BennebiJones
03/20/2003, 02:47
Sauron most definatley should be in the brotherhood. They should have made him a r/e/v charecter making his e a member, cause he was in there, check X-force around issues 7 or 9.
Exp. Scorpion should be in the SS. I would have liked to see Mandarins dial more split up like Dr. Stranges to show the degree of differnt powers at his command. I also believe that rookie beast should be an Avenger, and then do a unique beast with no fur for his early x-men years.
archaon02
03/20/2003, 03:55
If Sauron were a R/E/V fig, then I think a case could be made for his E version to be on the brotherhood team. As a unique, he didn't spend nearly enough of his time with the brotherhood to warrant the team ability. If you look at the uniques that exist so far, virtually all of the ones with a team ability have spent almost all of their "careers" with that team.(I mean the truly unique characters, not the "varient" versions).
the itsy bit
03/20/2003, 07:23
Originally posted by The Stinger
This is a great point here. There have already been cases where members have rushed to judgement on some of these figures, before even playing them in a game situation. A lot of things look really good or really bad on paper, but until you actually use them in a game, its all speculation.
Good call Spinebreaker, I think we are on the same page on this particular issue.
the rookie Con Artists are being "playtested" in the Vacation on muir Island thread, so this will convince all of us that they are overpowered (or not).
Doombots are great (overpowered, no), but in the comparison with the CA you could easily fit 3 of them in and they would make ANY fig great at no expense.
I can make good "guesses" based on past play experiences (mageknight and HC) what makes a fig good/great or overpowered.
If the CA would have gotten outwit instead of perplex, everybody would have known that would have been sick.
perplex is in my opinion just as good in large numbers.
Well I don't think the Con Artist will be too abused, but it makes Skrulls pretty much #### near worthless doesn't it?
biggs
RavenProject
03/20/2003, 15:31
Originally posted by Kiften
Well I don't think the Con Artist will be too abused, but it makes Skrulls pretty much #### near worthless doesn't it?
biggs
Why do you feel this way?
I don't see how they infringe on one another's territory.
-J
The Skrulls (with the exception of the Super Skrull) are pretty much near worthless no matter what.
There isn't anything a cheap Skrull could do that a cheap Hydra or Shield member couldn't so better.
I mean you wouldn't put them on a team JUST because of shape change would you?
Manchine
12/25/2009, 20:04
You know whats funny. I never seen this thread. =)
OH and THREAD NECROMANCER!
Mandark laugh
HAHA HAHA HAHAHAHA
zero_cochrane
12/25/2009, 21:05
Speaking of things Manchine...
Awhile ago I suddenly realised that I had been misreading your sig. For ages I thought it said
If you're nude don't even bother.
... which I couldn't really argue with, but still thought was strange. :p
ThePrinted6
12/25/2009, 21:29
Well I don't think the Con Artist will be too abused...
My favorite part right here.
Repulsor rage
12/25/2009, 23:18
Goes to show it never ends lol
JackAssterson
12/25/2009, 23:33
Well I don't think the Con Artist will be too abused
:laugh:
Simpler times.
.........................
Doombots are great (overpowered, no), but in the comparison with the CA you could easily fit 3 of them in and they would make ANY fig great at no expense.
One could even make a case for Doombots being underpowered because they all think they're the real Dr. Doom. Doombots often appear just as powerful as the real Dr. Doom and its not until they fail do his enemies actually find out their dealing with a Doombot. My only real beef is with the fact they made the Doom T.A. a wildcard when was the last time Dr. Doom went to go help anyone. It sure didn't happen during World War Hulk, Civil War, Secret Invasion, or Dark Reign, and when Doom does actually help it's really only too help himself. Doom first and foremost SAVES HIMSELF above all others I ask again how is this guy a wildcard
zero_cochrane
12/26/2009, 05:48
My only real beef is with the fact they made the Doom T.A. a wildcard when was the last time Dr. Doom went to go help anyone.Super Villain Team Up!
Quebbster
12/26/2009, 07:46
Super Villain Team Up!
Or, if you want to expand the theme beyond Doom and Namor, the Cabal. :)
incredible
12/26/2009, 07:50
Wheres my shovel???
Quebbster
12/26/2009, 08:12
Wheres my shovel???
Have you checked the 'Similar threads' window?
It's a wonderful tool for threadcromancy... I think that's what manchine used.
(yeah, I should close this thread down, but everyone seems to have fun, so...)
Manchine
12/26/2009, 09:10
Have you checked the 'Similar threads' window?
It's a wonderful tool for threadcromancy... I think that's what manchine used.
(yeah, I should close this thread down, but everyone seems to have fun, so...)
Thats exactly where I saw it. =)
I love where someone complained that BoomBoom/Meltdown was too powerful!
Of course this was back when EE was pretty fearsome, but still...
Simpler times!
Quebbster
12/26/2009, 10:03
I love where someone complained that BoomBoom/Meltdown was too powerful!
Of course this was back when EE was pretty fearsome, but still...
Simpler times!
COnsidering her cost, she's fairly good even today.
Fredwood
12/26/2009, 10:19
Holy 6 year old thread Batman.
COnsidering her cost, she's fairly good even today.
I would agree if her starting clicks were constant, but even the Vet goes down to a 5 attack!
Yes, a 5!
OK, so I need a critical hit to get a crack in on your 17 defense?
And if I miss, you need a 3 to hit me and finish me off with my 11 defense and no damage reducers?
Let's go to it!
Really, she's not terrible in context of the times.
Especially teamed up with a pack of Con Artists and using the rules she was written under.
it's just in light of "inflation."
It just makes me chuckle to see the way dials went from "pretty good" to "pretty horrible" with just a few clicks!
BTW, is the legendary "point formula" only used on the first click?:laugh:
It just makes me chuckle to see the way dials went from "pretty good" to "pretty horrible" with just a few clicks!
BTW, is the legendary "point formula" only used on the first click?:laugh:
If you believe everyone who has ever worked on the game (and since most of them don't work for WK anymore why not) it's design philosophy that has changed, not the formula.
If made today a similar pointed Meltdown would probably have one less click of life, and only 2 clicks of EE. But would have a click of 3 damage, 2 targets and better stats on most of her whole dial. Maybe even a click of RS if she gave up the 3 damage.
But realistically if made today Meltdown would be 75 points....... and have her Nextwave trenchcoat.
Tarnish
SlayerOfAres
12/26/2009, 12:58
One could even make a case for Doombots being underpowered because they all think they're the real Dr. Doom. Doombots often appear just as powerful as the real Dr. Doom and its not until they fail do his enemies actually find out their dealing with a Doombot. My only real beef is with the fact they made the Doom T.A. a wildcard when was the last time Dr. Doom went to go help anyone. It sure didn't happen during World War Hulk, Civil War, Secret Invasion, or Dark Reign, and when Doom does actually help it's really only too help himself. Doom first and foremost SAVES HIMSELF above all others I ask again how is this guy a wildcard
The wildcard can also represent how versitile Doom is.. How he can adapt and evolve... Doom is a smart guy.
Shellhead's Pal
12/26/2009, 13:36
Or what about Boom-Boom/Meltdown. She is cheap with EE. She is meant to take the little bastards out.
Naw naw, dude. It's all about Tabitha Smith. To quote ABF, "Could waste." 30 points for 4 damage and an X-Men battery? Mama, I'm comin' hoooooooome!
Mike Mine XPlosion.
P.S.- TASKMASTER!!!
Quebbster
12/26/2009, 15:09
I would agree if her starting clicks were constant, but even the Vet goes down to a 5 attack!
Yes, a 5!
OK, so I need a critical hit to get a crack in on your 17 defense?
And if I miss, you need a 3 to hit me and finish me off with my 11 defense and no damage reducers?
Let's go to it!
Drawback? Yeah. Not a huge one IMO though - if she gets hit she can always use her as an X-men healing battery. Until she is hit she can provide some offense. And if your opponent goes out of his way to bring her down... so what? It's not like she's a major part of your force...
Heck, even today there are only 3 figures who have the X-men TA and cost less than 25 points: E Boom-boom, V Meltdown and R Multiple Man.
zero_cochrane
12/26/2009, 19:17
Holy 6 year old thread Batman.There's older ones out there! :cheeky:
Quebbster
12/27/2009, 07:48
There's older ones out there! :cheeky:
yeah, I seem to recall someone digging up a thread that was all about how cool it would be when Infinity Challenge was released, and how the Heroclix rules might be constructed...
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