Cosmic Justice - Educated Guesses...

[boneyard]

After reading the two fake lists, I think we need to stop and think about who may actually be in this assortment:

Here's what we know:
Batgirl (Cassie) is a unique. Which means there may or may not be a Batgirl R/E/V which would be Barbara Gordon. Very likely especially with the "Birds of Prey" show that recently was on tv. Another logical guess, but less likely, would be a R/E/V of Oracle. She will fill a Batman team slot.

Wonder Woman is a R/E/V. She is probably a high-end character. She also has an AE that most likely will be in this set. The most likely candidates are Cheetah, Circe or Ares. Circe and Ares are very powerful. They might be uniques. Cheetah would make more sense as a R/E/V. She would fill one JLA slot. Maybe even one JSA slot if the rookie is meant to represent Hippolyta.

Penguin is a R/E/V. He will probably be a low to mid-level character. He fills a Batman enemy slot.

Bizarro may be a unique. If not, he would be a high-level character. He fills a Superman enemy slot.

Jon Stewert is a R/E/V. He fills a Green Lantern and JLA slot. He will be a high-level character (unless the ring is grossly mis-represented) There could be another GL in this set. Hal Jordan as a unique is a possibility since Sinestro is out. However, they may be holding back on Hal to do him as a "big fig" as well... This would leave Kyle (who is shown at the site) and Alan (who would fill a JSA slot) - since Jay (Flash) was a unique, Alan may also be one.

Green Arrow is a R/E/V. He may or may not have an AE (very unlikely unless Clock King or Count Vertigo is in the set) He is probably a mid-number character. He would also fill one JLA slot.

Black Canary is a R/E/V. She would be a low level character. She would fill the JSA and JLA slots.

Martian Manhunter is a R/E/V. He would fill a high level slot. He would fill a JLA slot.

The organization of the last booster sets were:
6-7 generics
6 low level characters
6-7 mid level characters
7-9 high level characters
12 uniques

So, what do we have?

7 (or 6) R/E/Vs out of 28
No generics
1 low range
2 mid-range
3 high level
1 (or 2) uniques

We have been told the Teen Titans will be represented. Wonder Girl (Donna) seems like a lock, since her character is rumored to die later this year. Starfire, Cyborg, Raven are all characters in the new Teen Titans cartoon. Their inclusion seems to be a natural. Kid Flash could be a possibility since they would want another character with Hypersonic speed (Impulse is a possibility as well) And then there is the new Teen Titans book (which may or may not have been in development when the deal for CJ was cut) which features Superboy, Impulse, new Wonder Girl as well as the members from the cartoon. I don't know if we will get all of them, but I'd bet we'll get many of them.

Other groups that were under represented were GL, Mystics and Legion of Superheroes. I would set bet on seeing at least three LSH characters (if not more) and a couple of Mystics. However, many of the mystics are very powerful (Dr. Fate, Spectre, Demon) and could only be represented as Uniques. GL could have one or two more additions (see above)

Finally, I'm sure we'll be getting a Batman and Superman unique. Like it is with Marvel, Wiz Kids has to have the "bankable" characters repeat. Likely candidates include the Electric Blue Superman and Kingdom Come Batman.

[boneyard]

So, to continue this lengthy thread...

Legion of Superheroes has yet to be represented. Based on the DCD characters (which is always a good marker to what characters DC would want to see pushed - even tho' WK makes the lists) - Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Chameleon, Mon-El and Ultra Boy are all high contenders.

Based on the DCD notion, Dr. Fate, Spectre, Demon, Phantom Stranger and Green Lantern (Sentinal - Alan Scott) are all possibilities. I would bet on seeing at least one of these characters.

Now, while we know that WK has a habit of holding back "key" characters with Marvel (like Iron Man, Venom or Punisher) I wonder if this will be the case with DC. Rampant rumors of DC only doing 3 sets may step up the priority of more popular characters in favor of some of the more obscure ones. Even the obscure figures in Hypertime (Hawk, Dove, TO Morrow, the Key) were featured somewhat recently in DC books.

Looking at what projects were big 6 months ago or what projects were in the works 6 months ago may lead to clues about who we will see.

[grendelboy]

Where do Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow and Black Canary come from? I know Boneyard isn't in the habit of posting shady info so where did you hear about these?

[boneyard]

Foilball came back from GAMA with news confirming these three characters. You can read all about it over at the "official" list thread:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=15287

or at Foilball's own thread:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=32146&highlight=foilball+GAMA

[Deathlok23]

Nice work Boneyard! I agree that there is good chance that many of those might make the set (though old skool Batgirl or Oracle are unlikely in my opinion). Black Canary could also fill out a Batman Family on her Vet slot due to her work with Oracle and Birds of Prey. BTW Thanks for all your hard work on Whoclix!

[grendelboy]

If we go by the "current events" theory as well as the filling team slots I would expect Ra's Al Ghul. He has been a huge threat in Legion lately as well as a Batman Enemy. This would also lead me to expect a M'onel as he and Ra's are
(im)mortal enemies right now.

[boneyard]

So looking back 6 months - what was DC printing?

In Batman books - Bruce Wayne Fugitive plot line. We already have Checkmate, Bane and Huntress. Now we are getting Batgirl. Most of the key players from this have been accounted for. Only Lex Luthor, Oracle and Azrael is unmade from this storyline. (Side note: Azrael is a strong possibility since his book is being cancelled this year.)

JLA - "Search for Aquaman" storyline - featured the "new" JLA, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, Major Disaster, Faith, Atom, The Demon. Storyline also features Zatanna and Tempest. The Shaman (Raven) is also a possibility since he is now a member of the JLA.

The Green Arrow book was in full swing and getting good press. Black Canary, Connor Hawke and Speedy were all promiently featured.

A new Deadman series had been launched (which I think is already cancelled)

Impulse, Superboy and Supergirl were wrapping up, which makes them all prime candidates for figures.

The Ion storyline was going on in Green Lantern that featured many GL's - John Stewart, Kyle as GL and Ion, Fatality, Jade, Alan Scott, even Guy Gardener - all prime candidates for figures.

In the Flash books, the Rogues gallery was reassembling. Captain Cold, Mirror Master, new Trickster, Magneta the Thinker and newcomers Blaquesmith, Girder, Murmur and all are possibilities. Also Cyborg and Pied Piper were featured.

In JSA the Stealing Thunder plotline was going on. In addition to all the JSA members we haven't seen (Alan Scott, Wildcat, Mr. Terrific, Atom Smasher, Sand, Star-Spangled Girl, Jakim and Johnny Thunder, Hawkgirl) several Captain Marvel characters were featured including Cap's AE Black Adam and villain Icicle.

While the Superman books were taking a break from epic plotlines, the core members of the Crime Syndicate of Amerika (Ultraman, Superwoman and Owlman) showed up. And DCD also recently produced figures of these characters.

[grendelboy]

If that's the case I'd love to see a new Aquaman, not that Conan in the ocean we have now. Although they are being pretty vague on his new powers so not likely.

[Kaitouace]

If Parademons made the set as generics......

What kind of impact would that make on the game considering they'd most likely be the first flying generic figures?

[superfriend]

So boneyard, what do you think of my proposed list?

My list (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31243)

[sudro2]

Let's not forget that the name of the expansion is "Cosmic Justice." To me this suggests a focus on the more sci-fi oriented heroes and villains of the DCU. The Legion and the GL Corps fall into that category so I wouldn't be surprised to see LSH and GL heroes and villians dominate the set. I know that CT didn't feature a huge number of FF characters, but Xplosion is predominantly mutants. In our speculations, we may want to weigh a character's "outer-space experience" as a factor in how likely they're to be included in the set.

[capsshield]

i think they could do oracle as prob. control because when shes on your side she give much better odds in success although id rather have her as the original batgirl maybe on her motercycle

[TheFreak]

I think that Impulse is out, in the new Titans series, he is taking the name Kid Flash. I think that the other Titans will show up, Superboy, Wonder Girl. I think Superboy would be Superman team on RE (he had X Ray goggles early on), and Titan on his V. I'm just mad that their probably won't be a Slobo or Secret.

[genesis5020]

Originally posted by boneyard
So looking back 6 months - what was DC printing?
JLA - "Search for Aquaman" storyline - featured the "new" JLA, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, Major Disaster, Faith, Atom, The Demon. Storyline also features Zatanna and Tempest. The Shaman (Raven) is also a possibility since he is now a member of the JLA.

In JSA the Stealing Thunder plotline was going on. In addition to all the JSA members we haven't seen (Alan Scott, Wildcat, Mr. Terrific, Atom Smasher, Sand, Star-Spangled Girl, Jakim and Johnny Thunder, Hawkgirl) several Captain Marvel characters were featured including Cap's AE Black Adam and villain Icicle.

boneyard: you forgot to mention Firestorm as a part of the "new" JLA (i.e.: "temp-service")! I think Firestorm could be a major powerhouse with an array of powers for cheap.
Firestorm R/E/V - Flight; Phasing / Force Blast; EE / Pulse Wave / Incapacitate / Telekenesis (pick one or two); Energy Shield/Deflection / Barrier / Impervious / Toughness; RCE / Enhancement / Shape Change; Vet: 3 clix Damage to start; Speed 12+; Attack 9+; Defense 14+; Range 10+ with 2-3 Lightning Bolts!
Keep him just around (or under) 100pts & he'd be super!

And I TOTALLY agree with seeing more of the JSA!!! Preferrably keeping the "old school" guys as Uniques & putting the current lineup in as R/E/V. That would mean an updated Jay Garrick Flash as a R/E/V fig with JSA team ability (don't ask why the U didn't have it, BUT...)

My take. Next?
G5020

[esfoad]

EDIT: Sorry boneyard. It just dawned on me that I'm contributing to derailing your thread. I'll save fig stats debates for another thread and leave this one to your original intentions (which I was enjoying).


Originally posted by capsshield
i think they could do oracle as prob. control because when shes on your side she give much better odds in success although id rather have her as the original batgirl maybe on her motercycle

Nothing against Babs in either incarnation (Oracle or Batgirl) as I understand how popular she is (and I like her myself), but when her figure is made I do hope it's a Unique only. Especially with Cassy as a Unique. IF push came to shove and we are forced to have a REV of a Babs I think her Batgirl days would be more appropriate and suitable to scale over a REV.

As for Oracle, I disagree with her having Probability Control. That's usually likened to a magicial creatue and Babs wouldn't qualify (even when squeezed into her yummy Batsuit). But the concept you were getting at should definitely qualify her for Outwit across the board.

[The Superfly]

I think sudro2 is right, with the expansion possibly having 'cosmic' characters in the set, like Starman, Adam Strange, Despero, Captain Comet...

And I bet we'll see some cool non-cosmic characters like Captain Marvel, Firestorm, Atom, Captain Cold, Prometheus, Sentinel...at least I hope so! ;)

[razz10555]

as long as it has captain marvel I'll be happy

[elvisdo]

People have been asking for Hal Jordan and I think he will appear, but not as Green lantern. If DC is staying true to form, they will use his latest incarnation as The Spectre.

And if Hal does show up as a GL, my guess is that he will be a Unique in the same fashion as the latest Elektra... a highly powered Unique.

[honky]

itd fill me w/ glee if we could get an adam strange figure.
and a starman, but which one? old jsa star man, or his son jack from the most recent series?
there are numerous GL's to pick from- with stewart confirmed, the main are hal, and kyle. but what about guy? is he worth r/e/v and if not, do you make him a JLA or GL. if hes a unique, my money'd be on JLA- he wasnt the sharing a ride kind of guy and his most memorable run was in giffen dematies JLA
as for the mystics, dr fate and demon seem most likely- but what about deadman and constantine?
deadman hasnt gotten alot of press recently, but as a unique he'd make an excellent figure.
constantine actually is possible- theres been a lot of talk about a "hellblazer" movie.

[boneyard]

Just so you guys know, NO ONE has confirmed the lists going around right now. The one with the "Ghul Assassin" was made up by a member on the forum (He admits it in one of the threads) and the "Kiwi" list is not confirmed (It is highly suspect for a number of reasons) so we do not know which figures other than the officially confirmed figures are in this set.

Saying that, Honky, I hope we do get a Starman and it is Jack Knight (with a Ted as a Unique)

[Cell]

Im still hoping for a Guy Gardner figure, i dont care if hes with GL, Sinestro Ring or Warrior. I also would like a Lobo fig. Seing as how its "cosmic" and all... and Lobo did almost beat Superman.

[elvisdo]

Just a question... is M'Onel more powerful than Superman? Is so, imagine how much he would be worth.

[LoneWolf21]

This is the way I'm seeing it.

For one, the big Teen Titans relaunch is June, as is CJ, so some Titans characters will probably show up, especially the ones in the relaunch, so at the least, I'd expect Superboy, Wonder Girl (Cassie, not Donna), and Impulse/Kid Flash, with Raven, Cyborg and Starfire being possibilites as well (the other member of the relaunch team, Beast Boy/Changeling, was in the first set).

As for the Legion, at least, I'd expect the three founders, Live Wire, Saturn Girl, and Cosmic Boy, and the possibilty of other popular Legion memmbers being included (M'onel, Ultra Boy, and Apparation, and Invisible Kid, for example), and possibly some "darkhorse" Legion members to make the team more well rounded (Like XS, Umbra, Karate Kid, Inferno, and Starboy, as an example).

As for the GL's, we know we're getting John, but everything else is up in the air. Kyle is current, and Hal is well loved by older fans, so I'd expect them before Guy. Jade is a possibilty, but she's a darkhorse for this set.

Also, just because of their low number(s), I'd expect at least a few JSA members. Sentinel and Wildcat both seem to be shown a lot with Jay Garrick, so I think they might be safe bets, as well as probably Captain Marvel, and in the interest of diversifying the team, I can see Power Girl, Hawkgirl (like John, she'd be a cartoon tie-in, so she's a pretty good bet), and Star-Spangled Kid/Star-Girl being included, and _maybe_ Jakeem Thunder and his Thunderbolt, Hippolyta, and Jack Knght as a Starman as possibilites for uniques. Just a guess though.

As for Mystics, well Dr.Fate and Zatanna spring to mind (and they can also be members of the JSA and JLA, respectively), and would Hourman also be a mystic? It's possible we could also see Empress and Secret as mystics as well, if they are made.

[megamania]

Not much to add. DC is lacking "In your face" storylines currently. I was hoping for Wildstorm stuff. Currently, Jim Lee on Batman is the big thing at DC so I expect a Poison Ivory figure...maybe a Killer Croc also.

More speculation than anything else from me.

[weezer_10]

Well if we're going by logic here, let's look at the characters that are on TV, and that haven't been incorporated in to Heroclix yet...

Featured characters from the Justice League cartoon:

- Martian Manhunter
- Lex Luthor
- Wonder Woman
- Sapphire
- The Shade
- Cheetah
- CopperHead
- Metamorpho
- John Stewart
- Etrigan (Jason Blood)
- Mongul

I reckon Lex Luthor, Mongul, Metamorpho and Etrigan will be Unique characters, the others will be REVs.

Batman Beyond:

- Batman (Terry McGinnis)
- an old Bruce Wayne

Would a REV versions of Batman Beyond make sense? I mean, he's only in his late teens anyway. I reckon he'd also be a unique. He'd also be very strong with that special suit.

What does everyone else think?

[PMMJ]

Dont' forget there's a Teen Titans cartoon coming on in, um, August.

[Avendoral]

Didn't Vandal Savage appear in the JL Cartoon as well?<<I know, wistful thinking>>

[capsshield]

BONEYARD AS A LOGICAL GUESS YOU SHOULD INCLUDE FLYERS EVERY SET HAS HAD ABOUT 10-12 AND MOST OF THE SETS HAVE BEEN PRETTY EVEN VILLIANS TO HEROS

[boneyard]

Good points Capshield! (though a trife loud... :ermm: )

Let's look at the knowns and see where they'd fit:

FLYERS
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Bizarro
John Stewart

HEROES
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Batgirl
Green Arrow
Black Canary
John Stewart

VILLIANS
Bizarro
Penguin

[boneyard]

THE PAGE THREE REALITY CHECK:

HIGH PROBABILITY
Batgirl R/E/V
Wonder Girl (Cassie)
Cheetah
Another GL (Kyle, Hal, Guy)
Sentinel
Cyborg
Raven
Starfire
Kid Flash
Dr. Fate
Demon
Electric Blue Superman
Cosmic Boy
Saturn Girl
Lightning Lad (Live Wire)
Chameleon
Deadman
Superboy
Supergirl
Captain Marvel
Black Adam
Hawkgirl
Lobo
Lex Luthor
Poison Ivy
Mr. Freeze
Scarecrow

MEDIUM PROBABILITY
Tempest
Wonder Girl (Donna)
Starman
Captain Cold
Promethesus
Despero
Firestorm
Atom
Zatanna
Parademon
Jade
Fatality
Oracle
Mon-El (M'onel)
Ultra-Boy
Ra's Al Ghul
Kingdom Come Batman
Circe
Spectre
Impulse
Wildcat
Power Girl
Hourman
Vandal Savage
Star Sapphire
The Shade
Metamorpho
Mongul
Mirror Master

LOW PROBABILITY
Captain Comet
Major Damage
Faith
Shaman
Crime Syndicate members (Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman)
Sand
Star Spangled Girl
Jakim/Johnny Thunder
Mr. Terrific
Atom Smasher
Phantom Stranger
Clock King
Count Vertigo
Ares
Copperhead
Girder
Blaquesmith
Trickster
Murmur
Magenta
Apparition
Invisible Kid
XS
Umbra
Karate Kid
Inferno
Starboy
Thinker
Icicle

Weezer, Batman Beyond characters are a different license and are not a part of Wizkid's agreement.

[superfriend]

For each set so far we have gotten:

Medics
Generics realted to previous generics (Shield/Hydra)

Police Medic (PD)
Checkmate something (no affil)
Intergang something (SE)

I could also see:
Science Police
Parademons!
Lex Corp Sabatour
Manhunter Robot
Superman Robot
Impiriex Probe
Amazon
Atlantean
White Martian

[Sinister SID]

I really think they need to add more Injustice League members -- not simply in order to have decent JLA-IL battles, but because there aren't enough low-cost IL members to make the power worth while.

As it now stands most IL members are 70 points and above, so unless you plan on taking Black Manta or Weather Wizard in multiple copies you aren't going to have many excess figures no matter what the points value of the game you're playing -- and since the IL power is dependent on adjacent members and gives you action conservation (and if you're using WW or BM in hand to hand you probably have problems) the lack of cheap IL members makes the group ability almost pointless.

So, hopefully we'll see Circe and Lex Luthor and Mirror Master as IL members (even Ocean Master would be nice).

[capsshield]

Sorry i forgot to turn off my cap lock at work didnt mean to shout . boneyard we should also look at new powers coming. some powers are more important than others for balancing marvel to dc for instance prob. control, enhancement, ect..
if you look at marvels sets what figures could help balance gameplay. dr. fate=dr. strange
zantana=scarlet witch
green arrow= hawkeye
sentinal/starman = quazar

what do you think who else matches up

[DS-00-0, FSD]

Another thing to remember is male/female composition.

In Jon's sets there has been a 60/40 - male/female breakdown. If CJ keeps with expansion size of 96 figs (12 Uniques, 28 R/E/V), we should expect 15-16 female characters.

We've seen two (Batgirl and Wonder Woman), received a confirmed sighting of another (Black Canery) and can specuate heavily on a fourth (Cheetah as WW AE).

The rwmainder can easily be pulles from TT and JLA.

[ohcysp]

Though it's highly unlikely, I'd like to see a U Gen. Zod as an SE. The powers would be comprable to Supes R. :classic:

I do like the idea of Atlantean Guards and Amazonian Healers. Both of these should have toughness.

Parademons, DEO agents and Science Police would all be good genarics.

[Christo]

Page 535 of the most recent previews (the ad for Cosmic Justice):

" . . . Can the Titans stop Brother Blood's diabolical plans?"

So we can start thinking about him, as well -- maybe an acolyte or two for generics.

[BAKID]

I have heard rumors that the atom would be a LE available like the ant-man LE in Marvel, just a base with no fig (as he is too small to see). I think that might be pretty lame, but a good possibility. It just seems like the atom is a bit more powerful than ant-man, as he could easily be argued to have outwit. A bunch of JLA storylines involve Atom, Batman, and Martian Manhunter coming up with a plan to snactch victory from the jaws of defeat.