TK an Object you are on??

[Summoner Geek]

Say Jean Gray is standing on an object token. Caan she Telekinisis the object?

Or does she have to be next to it, but cannot be on it.

Thanks.

[Canada Maestro]

From the online rulebook:
"Characters must be adjacent to or in the same square as an object to use Telekinesis on that object."

Yep, she can be in the same square.

[Summoner Geek]

Thanks for the response. That was too easy, God forbid I re-read the rulebook! Thanks again!

[savasyn]

How about a varient of that question. If an opposing character is standing on an object, can Jean Grey pick it up out from under them and smash them with it? How about if they have stealth? I assume that if she moves it, they are no longer stealthed, but can it all happen in the same action? She has to be adjacent to the object(and thus the other fig) to TK it so she can attack a stealthed fig, right?

[Allibaster]

If she where adjacent to the object the stealthed figure was on then the figures stealth power would be useless. She would not have to make a LOS check. She is adjacent. But the real question is can you TK an object that some one in an adjacent sqaure is carrying? (ie with super strength) Or would you still ave to TK the charachter? Or could you? :knockedou

[Canada Maestro]

Actually, according the rulebook (but not the PAC), using an object as a weapon requires you to use a ranged combat action. This would mean, in my mind, Jean Grey couldn't do it to a stealth character. This would be because she can't have line of sight to him/her until part way through her attack (which she can't start without a target). The rulebook states it can be done to adjacent characters though (but not stealthed ones, it's still a ranged attack).

As for TKing an object someone is carrying, no you can't. You can TK a person carrying an object and the object goes with them.

[TheEnigma]

Actually you have to assign a close combat action to TK an object. Refer to the object rules:

"Page 16 of 21 Last Modified: 3/15/2003
An opposing figure is standing in a square “on top of” an object token (not carrying the token.) Can a figure with Super Strength or Telekinesis pick up or move the object out from under the opposing character? Yes, you can Telekinesis the object away or pick it up with Super Strength. Nothing happens to the figure that was standing “in” the object."

Once the object is lifted, you then make an attack roll to hit the target with the only requirement being that you need LoS to them. Since the Stealthy figure is no longer under cover, and you are adjacent, you can see him just fine and nail him with the object.

Even though you hit them at a distance, it's not a ranged attack.

[Canada Maestro]

Actually, that is only for moving an object. If you check the rulebook under "Telekenesis super power" and specifically under "Attacking with an Object" it states:

"To use an object as a weapon, give the character a ranged combat action, even if the character’s range value is 0."

And:

"A character can use Telekinesis to make a ranged attack against an opposing character in an adjacent square."

So I still don't think you can target an adjacent stealthed character.

[HeroComplex]

Canada Maestro is correct. The attack's LoF is established before the object is actually move with TK, and so a Stealthed figure won't be an elligible target for a TK-object attack, even one using the object from underneath him.

To the other two issues---
Adjacency does not grant LoF. The fact that close combat doesn't require LoF is a completely different concept from it being automatically assured. If something requires LoF, such as Outwit or a ranged TK attack, then LoF is required even when adjacent.

When an object is being carried it is not targetable.

[MisterId]

Greatest Stealth Trick.

Batman Standing On Hotdog Cart Screaming "You Cant See Me"

Out Of No Where Hawk Comes With His Leap Climb and Superstrength And Takes That Hotdog Cart Like It Was A Table Cloth. Next Turn Everyone Smacks That Bat.

-E

[farmer]

ok, i may very well be wrong, but the way I see it, jean would announce a TK attack, and could move the object that a stealth character was on.....However, she could not use it to attck that character since she could not see him at the begining of the action.....she can use the object on someone else though, and then the stealthed character would then be without his stealth, but at least not smacked down...anyways, thats my view on it

[HeroComplex]

Only problem with it, farmer, is that while adjacent to an enemy she can't use her TK to fire at someone with whom she isn't adjacent.

[savasyn]

Originally posted by HeroComplex
Only problem with it, farmer, is that while adjacent to an enemy she can't use her TK to fire at someone with whom she isn't adjacent.

Unless the stealthed figure was also a flyer, but how often does that happen?

[Canada Maestro]

Originally posted by savasyn
Unless the stealthed figure was also a flyer, but how often does that happen?

Actually, the stealthed character adjacent to her being a flyer doesn't matter. Jean can not make a ranged combat attack against someone she's not adjacent to while adjacent to the above character. And telekinesis allows for ranged attacks against adjacent characters whether they are flyers or not.

[savasyn]

Whoops, got my rule on adjacent combat mixed up.

Thanks for the reminder.

[The Sandman]

But, could she simply move adjacent and TK the object (move) it away? You would not be attacking with it.

[TheEnigma]

Mrs. Cyclops can TK an object from under a figure, Stealthed or not, with no problems (as explicitly stated in the current FAQ), however she cannot then attack the figure with it unless they DO NOT have Stealth. I'm also inferring from HeroComplex's post that you can only attack the adjacent enemy with it. So if you're next to Black Panther on an object, your only option is to move the object away from him leaving him open for someone else to shoot him.

Hmmm. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but I always accept the "official" rulings here. Of course, that's only long enough for us to make a house rule about it. :)

[The Sandman]

I guess you could move it behind you (or underneath you and give yourself a defense bonus for next turn from ranged guys) then on your next turn TK Attack BP.

[MisterId]

Honestly, Think People Unless You Are Attacking TK Is A Close Combat Why Not Just TK Black Panther Into The Middle Of A Firing Zone....

-E

[HeroComplex]

Because TKing an opposing figure requires an attack roll, whereas TKing an object is automatic. And when next to Black Panther, oftentimes you want to take the sure way out instead of risking getting mauled.

[MisterId]

Yeah Thats What Im Going To Do. I Am Just Shaken And Desturbed At Trying To Roll Against His "High" 16 defence I Will Just Have Knuckles Deal With Him...


-E

[HeroComplex]

Well, your example was using Jean Grey, which means that your attempting to hit that 16 defense with, at best, her 7 attack. Either remove the object and let your ranged attackers finish him, or chance rolling a 9 so that essentially the same thing can happen. If you fail that 9, he needs a roll of 7, the exact average, to hurt your Jean Grey, and with BCF it can potentially be devastating.

[MisterId]

1: Not My Example. I Did Not Start This Post. My Example Was Just Using A Character Like Hawk Or Hulk Who Have Leap/Climb And Superstrength And Just Picking Up The Object And Moving To One Of The Guys Sides To And Just Sit To Hit Him With The Object.

2: Yes It Is Alot Better Of A Advantage To TK BP Rather Then The Object Cause Your Going To Be Standing Next To Him Anyways, And Sure If You TK The Object You Can Have Someone Shot Him But Im Sure There Would Be More Threats On The Table Then Just Him. Believe Me I Have Seen Plenty Of People Lose Cause They Go After Stupid Stuff Such As Taking Outwit Off The Board But Then They Wind Up Leaving Their Other Characters Open For Assualt By Something Bigger... Im Saying That If Jean Grey Was Next To BP I Would TK Him Rather Then Anything And Stick Him In A Chimney And Watch Him Stealth His Way Out Of That...

-E

[HeroComplex]

Sorry about that---in the example. (Now it's time for the universal "you") But if you've taken the effort to move Jean Grey up to Black Panther, then chances are you're already itching to get rid of him, so the argument that you have other figures to hit is shaky. You've decided that now you are going to deal with Black Panther and his Stealth.

And just one side note---the designation of the chimney escapes me at the moment, but if you mean to TK a figure onto elevated blocking terrain, then you can't do so unless they have either Leap/Climb or flight.

[MisterId]

Not If I Have Line Of Sight To The Edge Of The Building. If I Can Shot Someone There Im Sure I Can TK Someone There.

-E

[double_a]

As support for HeroComplex (who is correct, of course):
"Only flying characters and characters with the Leap/Climb power can enter these spaces."

If you don't have flight or Leap/Climb:
you cannot stop moving in this terrain,
you cannot be taxied to this terrain and
you cannot be TKed to this terrain.