Colossus with a 15(!) Defense!?!?

[ColossusDA!]

This is truly a terrible misrepresentation. I mean c'mon, 15!?!?!. This means Colossus is about as hard to hit as Puppet Master. Invul is nice, but Wizkids gave Colossus the shaft. His other stats are nice though :D

[grendelboy]

When is the last time you saw Colossus get out of the way of something? I love the character but he is made to soak up damage. 15 is fine for a guy who acts as a wall.

[WFUnDina]

I agree look at supes his defense is what 16? Collasuls D is not bad @ all!;)

[drhypnotic]

Yeah, but the defense value doesn't represent only the ability to dodge blows. Hulk has like a 17 or 18 for many of his Clix and he doesn't dodge either.

I'd give poor Collosus a bit higher defence myself. Lets face facts though.. this is a game first and in this game Batman can put a beating on the Juggernaught! :P

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by drhypnotic
Yeah, but the defense value doesn't represent only the ability to dodge blows. Hulk has like a 17 or 18 for many of his Clix and he doesn't dodge either.

I'd give poor Collosus a bit higher defence myself. Lets face facts though.. this is a game first and in this game Batman can put a beating on the Juggernaught! :P

Well, I think Colossus doesn't get much credit....I'd give him a sixteen for a few clix...at least one...but he isn't the monster Hulk is. Colossus is strong for the X-men, but in the Marvel U as a whole, he's not all that much...he's a lover first, then a fighter.

[Xian]

drhypnotic wrote:
Hulk has like a 17 or 18 for many of his Clix and he doesn't dodge either.

Consider it a flaw in the original set. I mean, it's not like there aren't a few mistakes in there...


Xian

[grendelboy]

If your D value doesn't rep your ability to avoid attacks then what does it do? Sorry but the reason Invisible Girl has a high D is because she's invisible and therefore hard to hit. The same with Wasp, Yellowjacket and Ant-Man small(hard to hit)=high D. Colossus has invulnerability to show that he's hard to HURT but a low D to show he's easy to HIT.

[EvilGenius]

Originally posted by grendelboy
If your D value doesn't rep your ability to avoid attacks

Well, Defense Value represents alot of things. All of the "values" in Clix are pretty abstract.

Defense means different things for different clix. For the Hulk, it probably represents that you can hit him, but that doesn't mean that you'll be able to hurt him, and in that respect, combines a bit with toughness and invulnerability. For Spiderman, it means that you probably won't even be able to land a blow, which combines with supersenses. For Invisible Girl, it means that you probably can't see her, and even if you sort of see her, you're likely to hit an invisible force field when you try to attack her or her friends.

It is perhaps inevitable that a certain amount of number inflation happens in most games. In Clix, we sort of see the reverse. IC started with really high stats, and the subsequent sets have backed off a bit.

A 15 defense is pretty darn good. that means that your average generic piece would have a difficult time hitting or hurting him. But Ultron could hit Piotr pretty much at will.

And that makes sense, doesn't it?

It also eases the pressure on prev figs (and current ones) with lower attack values. Gee rookie Iron Man only has an attack of 8 (or whatever)? Well, he still has a chance to hit ShineyBritches, doesn't he?

[Fogs]

Originally posted by WFUnDina
I agree look at supes his defense is what 16? Collasuls D is not bad @ all!;)

Supes does have Impervious though, which will allow him to dodge at least SOME of the attacks that hit him!

[lukebuchanan]

and there are bunch of reasons why the defensive number goes up. You could hypothesize that people get scared when they see Hulk coming so it screws with their attack. Or with Leap/Climb he is more difficult to hit. The fear factor is just one reason, and Colossus is a big shiny target. Then again, since it's a game based on comic books rationalize it however you want.




LUKE SMASH

[Perfectstorm]

Originally posted by grendelboy
If your D value doesn't rep your ability to avoid attacks then what does it do? Sorry but the reason Invisible Girl has a high D is because she's invisible and therefore hard to hit. The same with Wasp, Yellowjacket and Ant-Man small(hard to hit)=high D. Colossus has invulnerability to show that he's hard to HURT but a low D to show he's easy to HIT. Well, IMHO he should have gottena much high defence, like a 17 for atleast a click. His speed in addition to his strenght is the reason he is good. Unlike most big smashers (hulk, juggs, thing) Colosuss doesn't take a hit when he doesnt need to. He is VERY fast for a big guy and dodges many attacks, while Juggernaut just lets them punch him and he shakes it off. I don't see why he gets a 15 while thing gets a 17

[grendelboy]

Okay, granted but when it all boils down Defense number is compared to Attack number to see if you are hit. My only point is Colossus is mighty easy to hit because he is so tough he doesn't care about avoiding it. I think this behavior is reflected in a 15 D.

[Mongoose]

I don't know why you are complaining. His damage is overblown in my mind. Collossus only has Monstrous strength (75 tons), he also is a poor fighter all around. Yet in game dynamics he is stronger then Juggernaut, whom tosses him around like a toy. so what if he has a 15 defense, he has invulnerability for 4 clix, and he can go toe to toe w/ Abomination. That to me makes him ridiculous stats wise. Heck i'm complaining to bring his stats down, that damage is ridiculous.

[The_Spider44]

Hey Mongoose, cool reference to the best Roleplaying game ever Marvel TSR, with such diverse power ratings as Monstrous, Unearthly and Remarkable. :laugh:

[Mongoose]

Yeah that game actually looked at characters strength ratings, and they were working on collaboration with Marvel. Unfortunately no one likes the rules that much (Fighting is used to evade an attack instead of agility).

[suprsktrjustn]

IMO Collossus's defense value accurately depicts the character. He was never one to dodge hits, he just got nailed over and over again, which makes him easy to hit in heroclix. The invulnerability represents his ability to take alot of hits, his defense is low because he never relyed on dodging he almost always let things hit him, thus him having a low defense with a good amount on invulnerability.

[iceman05]

Ya I agree with every one else, his D is fine

[Greenandgold]

I have to agree with Perfectstorm. Can someone explain why Colussus has a 15 D and Thing has a 17?

When going against a 9 AV, the difference between hitting on a 6 (72%) versus an 8 (42%) is pretty huge.

[Quarantine]

Mongoose I don't know why you are complaining. His damage is overblown in my mind. Collossus only has Monstrous strength (75 tons), he also is a poor fighter all around.

I don't know which comics YOU were reading, but the Colossus I know and loved wasn't a slouch in the fighting department. He was trained in the Danger Room by Professor X, Cyclops, and Wolverine, for cryin' out loud! That accounts for something, because previous Power Ratings (trading cards from the early 90's, anyone?) cite his fighting ability to be quite high (4 out of 7 meaning that he has had extensive experience in H2H combat). I think his defense is okay because those same sources cite him as being bulletproof and immune to most temperature extremes. He's not as strong as Thing or as fighting savvy as Thing, but he could justifiably hold his own (even though Grimm would win). Thing would be more apt to dodge or block attacks, but Colossus always did have a habit of taking hits unnecessarily.
Now the Hulk... is another matter. He's stronger and more durable than Colossus or Grimm. He's the guy who can pull off standing still, taking a hit, and laugh about it. He and Thing balance out in the Defense department because Thing relies on his fighting experince as much as Hulk relies on his higher durability. It makes sense to me...
Rogue is the only one I can think of who should have higher defense with her Invulnerability. Think about it... she can fly almost as fast as a 747 and has Miss Marvel's 7th Sense on top of countless other people's fighting instincts. She easily could have justified a 17 in defense, along with Super-Strength followed by Steal Energy, Charge, Invulnerability, Toughness, and Super Senses (at the very end) along with 4 damage on her first click. Can't wait for a new version of her.

[Perfectstorm]

yeah, and dont give "it was a screw up" as an excuse. It was in clobering time. Thing somehow has one of the highest defences and yet he doesnt even move during fights. And Colossus is more resistant to damage and feels less pain, so thats ruled out.
And if my memory serves me correctly, wasnt Colosus able to shrug off a stab from wolvies claws, while Thing was damged to the point that he hid inside a mask for a while.

[Manchine]

I would of gave him a 16. THe thing is Colossus thinks he's invulnerable but he really isnt super invulnerable like Ultron, Hulk and Juggeraut. He doesnt dodge and he jsut takes the hits even if it hurts him. Still remember when riptide threw his shurikens at him. They were sticking all out of him, they were hurting him but he was so mad and finally reached him and killed him.

Mongoose also remember Colossu got a power boast becuase of Onslaught. His strength actually went up to Un (100)

Just Remember the Amazing Spider Man can beat the Incredible Hulk. :laugh: :classic: :) :p

Oh and Quarantine being trained in the danger room does not make you a good fighter. IF that was the case all the Xmen would be great fighters. Kitty would be a god. Being in the danger room just homes the skills you have. Also wolvie would be considered the Greatest Fighter if it was all about the Danger ROom.

Nope Cap still is the Greatest fighter.

[Melkoloran]

Colossus' DV is definitely low in comparison to others in the same class.

[TychesCoin]

I think they did colossus pretty well. His offensive numbers aren't half bad especially his damage (which despite what alot of people are saying I think is accurate). And in the years I read x-comics colossus (and most of the x-men) never really struck me as being real excited about combat training. They were always the class of heroes that were to a certain degree dragged into the business and in their ideal worlds would be doing something else.

[Mongoose]

Mongoose also remember Colossu got a power boast becuase of Onslaught. His strength actually went up to Un (100)
Yeah I actually read that from the site you told me about. I've heard of him getting a power boost to press 90 tons, but never 100. You have to admit though, Manchine, that they made Juggernauts damage dial to soft. He should be doing atleast as much damage as Colossus.

[The Stinger]

Originally posted by Xian
drhypnotic wrote:


Consider it a flaw in the original set. I mean, it's not like there aren't a few mistakes in there...


Xian

Savage Hulk has 17 defense for a few clicks too,and this is the newest set, so I disagree with your "Original set flaw" argument.

[Quarantine]

Sorry, Manchine, but this is another case of Beast having toughness... I am right, you are not... lol!!!

Anywho, the Danger Room DOES make you a better fighter. I don't think Kitty Pryde learned all her stuff just from Wolverine. She, like the other X-Men, had to learn to fight and then hone (not "home") those skills in the Danger Room. Cyclops is a pretty good h2h fighter, and it was tutoring in the Danger Room plus coaching from the Professor that taught him that. Colossus is no different in this respect. All the traditional go-to-school X-Men are reasonably good fighters without their powers and you can't say otherwise and be right as far as the comics themselves are concerned. True, Colossus' training experiences are nothing compared to Thing's USAF, boxing, and wrestling training, but that doesn't make him a "poor h2h combatant". I stand by my previous statement.

As for you guys' references: When did Onslaught increase Peter's strength? He was on Excalibur at the time and Onslaught's stuff manifested itself in a completely different way in England. Furthermore, when did Colossus shrug off a blow from Wolverine's claws? Somehow I am not seeing that as a possibility unless it was Wolverine's BONE claws. If that was the case, then Wolvie could've scratched Grimm's face by hooking one of his plates and ripping it off, kinda like Wrecker did in the Thing's recent limited series. Colossus never had to deal with that sort of vulnerability, his form was smooth.

[Manchine]

Actually it wasnt Onslaught it was Shadow King. That increased his strength when he inhabited him. But even in Marvel RPG and in Hero Klix. They made him a weak fighter. He really isnt that good of a fighter. SO :p :p :p :p He's decent but not great.

[Thanosied]

When you always bring it in battle you get low defense. Superman has a 15 too. He always takes it to start and Colossus is no different. He is a straight ahead fighter win or lose. The low defence represents that. I mean what did you want? The IC Wolverine(the good Wolverine) is only 16, Beast 17, Iceman 17, I am pretty sure 15 is a completely accurate representation of his defense. I hate that the X-men are almost all overpowered except maybe Storm and Iceman but to give him a higher defence wouldn't really make sence. Even Hercules is only a 15 and he is the greatest wrestler in the Universe in Marvel.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Manchine
I would of gave him a 16. THe thing is Colossus thinks he's invulnerable but he really isnt super invulnerable like Ultron, Hulk and Juggeraut. He doesnt dodge and he jsut takes the hits even if it hurts him. Still remember when riptide threw his shurikens at him. They were sticking all out of him, they were hurting him but he was so mad and finally reached him and killed him.

Just Remember the Amazing Spider Man can beat the Incredible Hulk. :laugh: :classic: :) :p

Oh and Quarantine being trained in the danger room does not make you a good fighter. IF that was the case all the Xmen would be great fighters. Kitty would be a god. Being in the danger room just homes the skills you have. Also wolvie would be considered the Greatest Fighter if it was all about the Danger ROom.

Nope Cap still is the Greatest fighter.

16 defence longer through the dial would have been great !
Juggernaut should have multiple clicks of 4 damage as everybody knows, he got screwed (just like Thing).
Let's not start that again.

OH, training in the danger room DOES make you a better fighter (even Cap trains daily).
9 attack value and 2 damage (like Vet. Sahdowcat) is the top human physical strenght someone can have in Heroclix.

Colossus is a PURE melee fighter so he should have gotten 10,11 AV (which Thing should have too) longer, there is simply no exhaustioning him when he's in metal form !

I like everything aboot Colossus (even his "power up" click) except for his low defence (which should be 16) that even goes down ! :ermm:

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Thanosied
When you always bring it in battle you get low defense. Superman has a 15 too. He always takes it to start and Colossus is no different. He is a straight ahead fighter win or lose. The low defence represents that. I mean what did you want? The IC Wolverine(the good Wolverine) is only 16, Beast 17, Iceman 17, I am pretty sure 15 is a completely accurate representation of his defense. I hate that the X-men are almost all overpowered except maybe Storm and Iceman but to give him a higher defence wouldn't really make sence. Even Hercules is only a 15 and he is the greatest wrestler in the Universe in Marvel.

Superman has Impervious (which gives him a -2 defence), If supes would've gotten Inv. his defence would go up to 17 (yes, that extra dodge costs you).

Wolverine he soakes up the damage (and regenerates) gets 16 defence and you think Colossus whom is neigh invulnerable should NOT get 16 at least ?!

Hercules gets damaged when he gets hit !
Hercules is still a great fighter (high AV's for a LONG time for a low cost) , but he's got nothing but his tough skin to protect him !!

[Quarantine]

the itsy bit quote:
16 defence longer through the dial would have been great !
Juggernaut should have multiple clicks of 4 damage as everybody knows, he got screwed (just like Thing).
Let's not start that again.

OH, training in the danger room DOES make you a better fighter (even Cap trains daily).
9 attack value and 2 damage (like Vet. Sahdowcat) is the top human physical strenght someone can have in Heroclix.

Colossus is a PURE melee fighter so he should have gotten 10,11 AV (which Thing should have too) longer, there is simply no exhaustioning him when he's in metal form !

I like everything aboot Colossus (even his "power up" click) except for his low defence (which should be 16) that even goes down !

Thanx for the support, IBS. I don't think that Manchine relaizes that most of the X-Men and New Mutants were trained how to fight in the Danger Room. Using that as an example, I don't think that Canonball or Wolfsbane were "born fighters" as Manchine claims they would hafta have been. The Marvel RPG book is a good resource, but it doesn't compare to what the comics themselves say. And yes, you are correct in your assessment of Colossus not getting tired easily in his metal form; he did not have to eat or sleep and could function perfectly for days at a time. I think he could justify a 16 in defense, and if he doesn't, he should keep his defense steady for a few clicks.

Truthfully, I think that there's a certain amount of prejudice against mutants in general and the X-Men in particular among the peeps who don't think that the X-Men can compare to the likes of the Avengers or Fantastic 4, drawing a line between the "Marvel Universe" and the "X-Men Marvel Universe". It's the same universe, people, and should have the same standards among all its characters. The X-folks are every bit as good, and in some situations, better than the other heroes (as good as they are, of course).

[_/\seis.MIC/\_]

Colossus is/was a CHUMP, plain and simple. The guy got wrecked by everybody from Juggernaut to Gladiator. 15 defense fits him perfectly, as he was NEVER a good fighter. The guy was there to throw Wolverine at somebody and then tie-up the bad guy team's "brick" for a panel or two before gettin' pimp smacked. The one good showing he has is when he killed Proteus, who luckily for Colossus, was vunerable to metal. If he hadn't have been, Colossus would've got wrecked there too.

I'm glad they made him and all; X-Men could use him to round out the team a bit, but he's still a chump.

Scratch'n'Sniff: it's what's for dinner,
_/\seis.MIC/\_

[Quarantine]

As a character, you could call Colossus a chump (I didn't like his constant angst myself... it was pretty excessive even for an X-Man), as far as a fighter goes, you cannot tell me he sucked- I got way too many comics that say different. Juggernaut and Gladiator did stomp him into the ground, but look at those two! Juggernaut has beaten the Hulk and Gladiator has taken out the FF by himself. While he's not as strong as them, Colossus has some considerable victories under his belt, if you wanna acknowledge them: Proteus (the biggest), the Marauders, Pete Wisdom, the Brood, Freedom Force (specifically the Blob), Nimrod (among a great many other Sentinels), Trevor Fitzroy, the Hellions, the Reavers, the Hellfire Club, the Four Horsemen, the Acolytes, demons out of Limbo, and he even had a one-on-one brush with Cable. He was not the BEST strong person-type out there, but Pete could hold his own.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by _/\seis.MIC/\_
Colossus is/was a CHUMP, plain and simple. The guy got wrecked by everybody from Juggernaut to Gladiator. 15 defense fits him perfectly, as he was NEVER a good fighter. The guy was there to throw Wolverine at somebody and then tie-up the bad guy team's "brick" for a panel or two before gettin' pimp smacked...

I'm glad they made him and all; X-Men could use him to round out the team a bit, but he's still a chump.

Scratch'n'Sniff: it's what's for dinner,
_/\seis.MIC/\_

yeah the Juggernaut was supposed to be stronger then Colossus !:rolleyes:
Gladiator swooped the Juggernaut into the Ocean without even breaking a swet.
IF you would like to compare bricks of thesame category I will be happy to do so too.:rolleyes:

Colossus is in thesame category as the Thing,She-hulk.
that's who I compare him to (only he has got a LOT more fighting training).
Colossus didn't dodge any attacks, because mainly he blocked the attacks for his teammates (and getting NO damage).
so saying: he always got hit is really not that convincing now is it ?!
being neigh invulnerable gets you a higher Defence Value( as well as Inv.), just look at the Juggernaut he NEVER,EVER dodged any attack 18 defence!

[IJIT]

I hate to say this but is annoying to see people complaining about how high Juggernaunt and Hulks Ds are and how low Colossus is. Right now Juggy and Hulk see limited action because of the superstrength, invuln, charge combo. She hulk, thing, and many others like Colossus have this combo. If Juggys D was any lower I would never play him, for that matter why does juggy lose super strength quickly yet many other strong guys keep it down the dial. Colossus is a good piece and a good fighter because he can get right into battle with charge and get the first hit. The x-men have the most powerful team right now with cheap perplex, cheap flyers, and cheap heavy hitters. I see no point in argueing over making them even more powerful when there are so many other that need assistance. My poor Avengers have a team that just can not work well due to many high point figures. You x-men fans have so many options with your low point figures that complaining about one defensive stat makes no sense at all.

[the itsy bit]

IJIT..

I would have gladly excepted a 100+ point Storm !:classic:

[IJIT]

I agree that they could have made her alot better for over 100 points. What is it with them thinking all X-men have to be under 100 points?

[TychesCoin]

I think the idea behind keeping the x-men cheap is that the team ability functions better when there are larger numbers of team members in the game. That and for the most part the s-men have functioned as a team (and fairly large ones), not as individuals as is the case with hulk, iron man, thor, etc.

Also most mutants only have one power which in alot of cases translates into a fairly cosistent set of colors on the dial as well as fairly sparse coloring compared to other top heroes. Which keeps the cost down fairly naturally. I think its hard to argue with alot of their choices on most of the mutants they've done. Sure a few minor tweaks could have improved things a little (cyclops with a click of leadership someplace) But as a set I think the mutants have been pretty accurate interpretations.

That said, yes Storm should have gotten more abilities and a cost that atleast tops 80 if not 100. And Magneto could have been a little tougher.

[mylo1wagner]

Colossus was a GREAT fighter. He would not only get into slug fests; but when his strongest blows didn't damage the Juggernaut he did a flip kick and bashed him into a wall. Any super strong guy who kicks you is a good fighter. The leg is three times as strong as an arm.

Colossus was also smart and relativly unemotional in a fight, not easily taunted or enraged. And when he got mad he KILLED. My favorite panel is him holding a limp Riptide in his hand (he had just broken his neck) and saying "Harpoon, make peace with your gods little man, you are NEXT!"

[DTM]

Is this 15 DV in his Veteran form? (Im still waiting for my HC case). If so, thats definately not what he deserves, THOUGH it could EASILY be said that his Damage is too high, so in the end it MIGHT even out.

I agree, Colossus should be in the same class as the Thing, and She Hulk, the problem is, CT made them BOTH too powerful when compared to the first Marvel set, so now that throws the whole powerhouse system out of whack.

Should Juggernaut have Muliple 4 Damages? After IC, maybe, maybe not, after CT, DEFINATELY. In IC you have VERY few people with 4 Damage, Hulk, Magneto, Hercules, Juggernaut, and for the most part its for a very limited time. Nice, I liked it, 4 was the SUPER HEAVY level, and 5 was HULK ONLY. Cool.

But then CT comes out, and sure Thor has multiple 4s, which is WELL warranted, but so do Thing and She Hulk?? They both are NOT in the Super Heavy Weight level, why do they have 4 Damages? Not only does this practically force similiar classed figures in the future to have 4 Damage (ala Colossus and possibly Doc Samson), but you make the previous figures with 4 Damage way less spectacular (Hercules and Juggernaut).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Does Colossus deserve more than a 15 DV in his most powerful form? In my opinion, YOU BET. Hes made of metal, and according to most marvel RPG guides, has a better armor than both Ben and Jen.....BUT, does he deserve to do 4 Damage, for mulitple clicks, My answer is surely NOT.

So maybe you could say hes evened out in the end, though like Thing and She Hulk before him, he helps make previous Heavy figures somewhat obselete.

[k0rnkid15]

alls i gotta say is..
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

[mylo1wagner]

I agree about Dmg inflation with CT!

The only rationale for Thing-V is when he was Spikey Thing and WAS the same power level as the Hulk (except the figure doesn't match; much as E-Storm lost her powers, but doesn't have a mohawk.). She Hulk-V I can't say. Maybe they wanted to make a female bruiser that was of the highest sort; which marvel didn't, except for Titania, a villian. She hulk was a great Avenger; but never THAT tough. SOLUTION? Use the R/E/V level you think most appropriate to the character.

[whiteperegrine]

prefer the old marvel rpg rules to the new "diceless" system they are running now. I have yet to see anyone play marvel since they ditched the original system. sure it was kinda hookey...but it was easy and fast and characters were well represented in the system. imo.

Colossus Debate
I too would have liked to have seen a higher defence for peter but this will never be. as such, I will have to be very careful on how I use him. his invuln is nice but with all the b/c/f and other damage enhancing attacks out there peter will not stand that long under fire...

[Capt Crunch]

Well I am looking at the e versions of Colossus and the E version of Doc Sampson. Doc Sampson costs 4 points less and is a superior figure in every way.

Doc Sampson doesn't have the annoying first click of ####, he is usefull immediately. He has perplex to help himself or his friends. he has a better defense, a 16 with invul, leap and a better AV. He does less damage at 3, and Colussus is 1 on first click...

The reality isif Colussus gets hit while in human form, he will get clicked right past his tough stats very easily. So a stinking hydra agent/shield guy with RCE that costs less than 20 points can pretty much defeat a 95 point figure...the only good thing I guess is that he will be asy to heal with a medic...

I really liked the Colossus character, and it really sucks they did such a poor job of his clix.

For those that remember Colossus was only 17/18 years old through most of his time in the Xmen, he was trained fighter and was supposedly only going to get stronger as he matured into adulthood.

Anyway, I am disappopinted with the fig to say the least...I doubt I will ever play him because he really sucks so bad and their are so many better choices, Herc, Abomination, Doc Sampson...the xmen ability seems to be way over costed

[IJIT]

There is only one reason I still play Juggernaut. He is tied with Savage Hulk for the most clixs of Invuln. With his 18 defense it makes him a very good heavy hitter. I like Juggernaut having 18 defense to represent him punching things that are thrown at him and being able to sometimes absorb even more damage than any other character. I think of a miss on juggernaut as more of a hit that did not affect him. Almost anyone who aims for Juggernaut will hit him the question is will it hurt him. I am fine with his 18 defense even though more clixs of super strength and high damage would have probably been a better option.

[Kingofkod]

My biggest complaint is not His defense value which shoulda been at least 16 cause I mean hell he's tought then Doc Samson. But man his Attack value is ridiculously low. Why in the world does his "normal click" have the highest attack value he's ever gonna get? If you hit him for 3 clicks he might be doing for damage but he will have a tough time even hitting a medic. Thank god he has 10 clicks of life or he would get dealt with real quick.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by DTM
Is this 15 DV in his Veteran form? (Im still waiting for my HC case). If so, thats definately not what he deserves, THOUGH it could EASILY be said that his Damage is too high, so in the end it MIGHT even out.

I agree, Colossus should be in the same class as the Thing, and She Hulk, the problem is, CT made them BOTH too powerful when compared to the first Marvel set, so now that throws the whole powerhouse system out of whack.

Should Juggernaut have Muliple 4 Damages? After IC, maybe, maybe not, after CT, DEFINATELY...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Does Colossus deserve more than a 15 DV in his most powerful form? In my opinion, YOU BET. Hes made of metal, and according to most marvel RPG guides, has a better armor than both Ben and Jen.....BUT, does he deserve to do 4 Damage, for mulitple clicks, My answer is surely NOT.

So maybe you could say hes evened out in the end, though like Thing and She Hulk before him, he helps make previous Heavy figures somewhat obselete.

aboot the 4 damage:
4 damage is because of gameplay purposes, the absolute minimum a bruiser with Superstrenght should have to get past multiple clicks of Invulnerability !
should Thor have gotten 5 damage ?
well maybe, but then again his combination of powers is absolutely amazing:
he can pick up an object, taxi someone AND shoot a fig for 4 damage as 1 action.
best thing is he doesn't need to use the object unless he sees fit (you can always do a ranged attack).

Oh yeah DTM the warrior/units section has had them since 03-07-2003.
Colossus Vet. has 15 defence.:surprised

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by k0rnkid15
alls i gotta say is..
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

all I want to say to you is:
get a life !

If I see one more of these posts from you, you WILL be reported.

It was really surprising to see you didn't give your age on your profile.:devious:

contribute to the discussion or take your trolling somewhere else !

[Dengar 69]

Hey just stick him next to invisible girl and in Hindering Terrain for 19 defence?

[DTM]

"aboot the 4 damage:
4 damage is because of gameplay purposes, the absolute minimum a bruiser with Superstrenght should have to get past multiple clicks of Invulnerability !"

Tell that to Solomon Grundy, Superman and Doomsday. :)

[DrGandalf]

I'm suprised that no one's mentioned his "Stealth" click down in his dial.. (When he loses his super str..).

As for his defence value, I really don't care that it's 15, considering that he has Invulerability/Toughness on every click of his dial (aside from his "unarmored starting click") he can soak massive amounts of damage, and it's easier for Jean Grey or Beast to heal him up!

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by grendelboy
When is the last time you saw Colossus get out of the way of something? I love the character but he is made to soak up damage. 15 is fine for a guy who acts as a wall.

That quote is too damm funny. I agree, higher defense represents the ability to get the heck out of the way, not tough skin.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by shin-goji
That quote is too damm funny. I agree, higher defense represents the ability to get the heck out of the way, not tough skin.

tell that to Juggernaut,Hulk

Higher defences are:
1) superrior ability to avoid damage (Spiderman,Shadowcat)

2)being (nigh) invulnerable so even if they hit you with anything AND the kitchen sink it still won't hurt you (Juggernaut,Colossus).

It's a two-edged knife it can mean both of those 2 whilst they vary for why those high defences are given.

[DTM]

Yes, I definately agree. A high Defense value should be a combination of the characters speed and agility, AND how tough and hard their skin is. Maybe alittle more on the agility, since some of the indestructible skin aspect can be also shown by body armor powers. Juggernaut Veteran has an 18 Defense, and it surely aint cause of his ability to bounce around avoiding attacks. Now if a character has both, all the better......er......again, tell that to Superman and Doomsday. :P