Q's on EE, Stealth, Out, Perp...

[HowieTheDuck]

Outwit works on Invulnerability? I know the answer to this, but I can't remember seeing someone go "Thing, you're not made of rock anymore..." *SMACK*

Got a problem with Perplex to? How does behaving in an misleading or unpredictable fashion make you hit harder? I understand the AV and Defense boosts, Range and Movement to for that matter, but Damage?

Can the Superman Enemy Outwit be Outwitted? (and as an aside, Doomsday can get Outwit, that seems wrong)

Reading the PAC's for the Marvel and DC sets I noticed something...many of the powers aren't optional. Leadership, Shapeshift, Steal Energy, Toughness, Invulnerability, Energy Shield/Deflection and RCE aren't optional. For the most part, I don't see why you wouldn't use them, but is this just a mistake, or do I have to Steal Energy every time if its there?

Can I phase while holding another figure? If I can, can any phase-er do this, or just a flying phase-er. (I'm thinking Vision and Swamp Thing)

If I attack a Thug with EE, and the Thug has a stealthed buddy beside him, does the EE splash damage hit the stealthed guy, provided it beats the defense..., or does it miss because the attack was ranged?

If I attack a Thug with EE, and the Thug has a buddy beside him with Energy Shield, does ES come into play when adding up the Defense, because the attack was ranged, or is Splash Damage considered close combat?

Thanks for the answers, when they come.

[Angelofhate]

#1 You could poke Thing in the eye. His eye isnt rock.
#2 The name of the power "perplex" should be changed. You're not perplexing their ability to hit, more like encouraging them to aim better or throw harder.
#3 Team abilities can't be outwitted (yet)
#4 You would want to turn off something that heals you?
#5 I think so.
#6 I think not.

[HowieTheDuck]

Can't edit my own post, since when. Doesn't matter, forgot to put in, that I love the game, I know it's not fact for fact straight out of the comics, which is why Inv. can be outwitted, but I love outwitting the Thing. Wouldn't he be happy if it were just that easy. "Hey Doom, c'mere and get ridda these rocks for me, Stretcho won't let me pound on him so he can do it..." Ha. Although Perplexing damage I'm against, comics or no.

[shin-goji]

I don't know. Encourage is too close to Enhance. Perplex should be changed to Hurt More.

[Angelofhate]

Or, in the case of the Con Artists... Arousal

[HowieTheDuck]

Poke him in the eye, not that's funny.
But if the SupeEn ability grants Outwit, which is a power, Outwit should work against it, should it not?
As for turning off healing powers, nope, but if I'm pulse waving, and I've got a friendly Hulk near by on his last click of Tough before Inv., I'd rather have him bend over and take damage then just absorb it. I just think it should be optional, for that and other circumstances that aren't coming to mind, like Leadership, sometimes, I don't need the role, but it says I have to.

[Angelofhate]

and as for phasing and carrying someone, I think Shadowcat can do that, but im not sure. She's flying with phasing...

[HowieTheDuck]

Not be able to edit sucks when my spelling is going down the pooper. That was supposed to say, "NOW THAT'S FUNNY."

[PantherPriest]

I think perplex is correctly named, the only way joker can ever actually punch anybody is by freakin em out the moment before. And how spiderman/gambit/deadpool etc. keep their opponents off gaurd with their witty banter/speech patterns.

Actually howie, that very thing happened. In issue #52 of the fantastic four(volume 1 I believe) Black panther zapped thing with a de-neurolizer ray(obviously a stan lee creation) which zapped thing of his super strength and durability. Black Panther then proceeded to kick thing in the head. You actually summed up the encounter very well.

[HowieTheDuck]

I think I did read once that fliers could phase while carrying someone, and that either could phase with an object, provided the Super Strength is there, but I couldn't remember whether a non-flier could do it with a figure.

[HowieTheDuck]

I'll admit when I'm wrong, and apparently I am. So the Panther can do it, what about everyone else? Nevermind, I suppose I'll conceed on this issue, but I want my Phasing question answered, please and thank you.

And for the record, I'm still against Perping damage.

[Tsannik]

Can the Superman Enemy Outwit be Outwitted?The Superman Enemy team ability only GRANTS the Outwit power. This power is assumed to be on the dial itself. The Outwit received from the Superman Enemy team ability CAN be Outwitted. Superman Enemy team ability to GRANT Outwit cannot be Outwitted.
Can I phase while holding another figure? If I can, can any phase-er do this, or just a flying phase-er.
Only a flying figure can carry a figure. So only a flying figure with Phasing can carry a figure and phase with that figure.
If I attack a Thug with EE, and the Thug has a stealthed buddy beside him, does the EE splash damage hit the stealthed guy, provided it beats the defense..., or does it miss because the attack was ranged?the EE splash damage does hit the stealthed guy provided it beats the defense
If I attack a Thug with EE, and the Thug has a buddy beside him with Energy Shield, does ES come into play when adding up the Defense, because the attack was ranged, or is Splash Damage considered close combat?ES does come into play when adding up the Defense, because the attack was ranged

[SoRetarded]

Okay, so one question other people (besides me) have is whether you can outwit the outwit that the Superman Enemy would get by having them stand next to each other... I was wondering that too, but I have to tack on a few questions onto it that I have been wondering about.

First, IF it (the Superman Enemy Outwit) is considered a power that would then go on the dial, my guess is yes you could outwit it, but couldn't you just get the outwit back by moving apart and then coming back together. As soon as they separate, they would drop the outwit power. Anything that the two of them combined were outwitting would then be restored to the opponenet, and as soon as that happens the opponents outwitting of their outwit would be over as stated in the FAQ / PAC. Now, if they then move back together, that would create a "NEW" outwit, right? So then they would now generate a new outwit which would give them back the power that you had previously outwitted... So is that correct?

Second, (this and the third one both have mixed DC and Marvel figs which I know is not kosher in everyone's book, but anyway...) can you use the same figure more than once to generate the Outwit power? If you have an intergang agent, and three Doombots (for instance) standing in front of him, would you then get 3 outwits? Intergang agent is next to doombot 1 who is the more expensive figure and so he get's outwit. Intergang agent is also next to doombot 2 who is more expensive, so doombot 2 get's outwit, same with doombot 3. So would each doombot get the outwit power at that point by cloning the superman enemy ability? If doombot 1 then turned into an avenger to get a free movement and taxi someone accross the board would it then lose the outwit?

Third, what if the figure that is getting the "free outwit" already has a power in the Damage slot (such as leadership on a V Doombot). Do they lose their normal power and gain outwit? Do they not get outwit? Do they get both?

Fourth, the outwit goes to the higher priced (point wise) figure. What happens in a tie? Do they each get it, does only one get it and the owner of the team decides? Does neither get it since there is no higher priced figure?

Okay, that's it for the Superman Enemy team power... Now, I have additional questions about Stealth figures and when/if they get hit. If a figure has stealth, he cannot be target for a ranged attack according to the PAC. If he blocks part of the sqare for an adjacent figure, then they cannot be a target either, right? How far down the line does this go? Let's say I have 4 figures in a line, but sorta offset from my opponent like so:

_ = empty square, S = Stealth, A = figure A, B = figure B, C = figure C, E = Enemy

|E|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|S|A|B|C|
(stupid non fixed width font)

The one closest to my opponent has stealth and therefore cannot be targeted from range. Adjacent to him is figure A. To target figure A (center of his square to center of my square) my opponent has to shoot through the corner of Figure S's square and he can't because that would block the line of fire to A and he can't hit S because S is stealthed. To shoot B, he would have to go through part of A's square which is blocked by S which has stealth... same problem with C (just with more chaining of "can't target" issues in the way). Is that the correct interpretation of the stealth and LoF/LoS rules or should he be able to hit A, B, or C and why?

Last one (I swear... for now ;)) how does pulse wave effect stealth? Since pulse wave doesn't target a figure directly but IS still a ranged attack, does he not get hit by pulse wave then? Can a figure with stealth get hit by pulse wave, but just not get targeted for the pulse wave attack (i.e. he is in range so he get's hit but is not counted as a figure for determining if pulse wave can be used)?

Thanks guys...

[SoRetarded]

I realized that I kinda went on and on in that and tried to edit it down a little but I couldn't. Man... I need to be less verbose...

"I do not talk like that! The way I communicate is much different. I do not reiterate, repeat, restate the same thing over and over again. I am clear, concise, to the point!"
-Mojo Jojo

[Tsannik]

First, IF it (the Superman Enemy Outwit) is considered a power that would then go on the dial, my guess is yes you could outwit it, but couldn't you just get the outwit back by moving apart and then coming back together. Now, if they then move back together, that would create a "NEW" outwit, right? So then they would now generate a new outwit which would give them back the power that you had previously outwitted... So is that correct?
Okay... this is tricky.... Assuming that the two figures are not exactly the same cost.....
Outwit would always be assigned to the higher costed figure. In addition, this figure would only be able to use this Outwit once per turn. So, if he had used it... seperated and then became adjacent again... Outwit would return, but the power that was Outwitted would still NOT be Outwitted.... and this figure would not be able to use Outwit as he had used it before... does this make sense?
If you have an intergang agent, and three Doombots (for instance) standing in front of him, would you then get 3 outwits?
For every legal pairing, an Outwit can be assigned. So, yes there would be 3 Outwits assuming that the Intergang Agent was lower costed than any of the Doombots.
what if the figure that is getting the "free outwit" already has a power in the Damage slot (such as leadership on a V Doombot). This Outwit will co-exist with power already in the Damage slot. If the figuer already has Outwit in the Damage slot, then the Superman Enemy team ability will grant nothing.
Fourth, the outwit goes to the higher priced (point wise) figure. What happens in a tie? Do they each get it, does only one get it and the owner of the team decides? Does neither get it since there is no higher priced figure?

When it's just two figures together... you must assign which one gets Outwit. When it's more than two... then every legal pairing can be assigned an Outwit. Let me know if this needs more explaining.
then they cannot be a target either, right? How far down the line does this go? If you cannot hit the 'S' figure.... then EVERY other figure in that straight line also cannot be hit as it's impossible to draw line of Fire without having another figure's base block Line of Fire.
how does pulse wave effect stealth?
This question doesn't have a definitive answer yet...

[HowieTheDuck]

Hey, how about if they limit the amount of times that Perplex can be used on any one character each turn. I don't think this would have much affect on the point value of it, and would reduce the insane damages that can be reached, especially now with the Con Artists. It doesn't change the game much, but I think it would avoid offer use of these characters, and the power.

[SoRetarded]

Originally posted by Tsannik
Okay... this is tricky.... Assuming that the two figures are not exactly the same cost.....
Outwit would always be assigned to the higher costed figure. In addition, this figure would only be able to use this Outwit once per turn. So, if he had used it... seperated and then became adjacent again... Outwit would return, but the power that was Outwitted would still NOT be Outwitted.... and this figure would not be able to use Outwit as he had used it before... does this make sense?
Okay, I think you answered my question, but what I was going for was more of a situation like this... My opponent has some figure with Outwit (Darkseid for instance), and I have 2 ingergang agents (1 R, 1 V for argument's sake). During my turn, I Outwit something on my opponent's team (other then his Outwit). If (during his turn) he then counters by moving his figure with Outwit into range can he then Outwit my Superman Enemy "free" Outwit? IF he can, couldn't I simply get it back by separating my Intergang figures on my turn and simply moving them back together again? Since that would generate a "NEW" Outwit I could use that to get around the fact that he had Outwitted my Outwit, right?
This question doesn't have a definitive answer yet...
So does that mean that this is getting kicked around by the "official" people over at WizKids? I would think that the ruling should be that they (the Stealthed figure) can be effected by the damage, but they (the Stealthed figure) cannot be used to target and therefore determine if your opponent can use Pulse Wave. I would think that would make the most sense. The idea of stealth (as I interpret it) is that you are hiding so well I can't see you until I am right up on top of you. As a result I wouldn't be able to make a ranged attack because I can't see you, but that shouldn't stop the damage from going through the bush or trashcan, or whatever.
Originally posted by HowieTheDuck
Hey, how about if they limit the amount of times that Perplex can be used on any one character each turn. I don't think this would have much affect on the point value of it, and would reduce the insane damages that can be reached, especially now with the Con Artists. It doesn't change the game much, but I think it would avoid offer use of these characters, and the power.
I basically agree with this idea, but I think it limits Perplex too much. Without pumping the damage up more then once (or twice or 'n' times per figure), Perplex then becomes a lot less usefull, and I think there could be another way to handle it. Basically most people use perplex in one of two ways. They either bump their attack up or opponents defense down (if they want to use CCE or RCE then they effect the defense) OR they use it to bump their damage kinda like SHIELD pumping. I think there should be a distinction between the two. Bumping your AV or your opponents DV should still be free, but effecting damage should cost a move action for your team (like the SHIELD team ability does). That way you won't be able to put 4-5 con artist on a team and pump up your big gun to the point where he/she does 10 damage UNLESS you can spare all of those actions. It still leaves perplex as a VERY powerfull ability, but makes it less likely to be overused.

[Tsannik]

My opponent has some figure with Outwit (Darkseid for instance), and I have 2 ingergang agents (1 R, 1 V for argument's sake). During my turn, I Outwit something on my opponent's team (other then his Outwit). If (during his turn) he then counters by moving his figure with Outwit into range can he then Outwit my Superman Enemy "free" Outwit? IF he can, couldn't I simply get it back by separating my Intergang figures on my turn and simply moving them back together again? Since that would generate a "NEW" Outwit I could use that to get around the fact that he had Outwitted my Outwit, right?Once you get R and V Agents together only V would be assigned. You Outwit something with V Agent. End your turn. He moves Darkseid within range. He CAN Outwit you V Agent's Outwit. End his turn. You move V-Agent away. (thereby removing Outwit). You move R Agent adjacent to V Agent. V Agent would then be assigned Outwit. Since Outwit was Outwitted by Darkseid.. It is stilll Outwitted. (This is like how if you Outwit Toughness on someone's figure. You then Hit them into Invulnerability... and then hit them again into Toughness in the same turn. Their Toughness would still be Outwitted)
So does that mean that this is getting kicked around by the "official" people over at WizKids? Yes. This really doesn't have an answer yet.For now, figure's with Stealth cannot have Line of Fire drawn to them. So they cannot be affected by Pulse Wave.