Mastermind (and EE)

[littlegreenmen]

Alright got a series of Qs so bear with me.

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XXXDHXXX
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XXXUXXXX
XXSSSXXX

team a:
D=V. Dr Doom
H=R. Hydra Medic

team b:
U=E. Ultron
S=Sheild figs (any)


1) If Ultron fires useing EE and targets both Doom and Hydra (and hits) Doom takes 1 click for hit and 1 click for splash from Hydra's hit and the hydra gets the same. Doom wants to mastermind damage. Would he be able to only shunt the hit damage and not the splash damage? (mastermind says may shunt damage of which you are the target of an attack the splash came from hydra being targeted).

2) If in above example Ultron is fireing using the bonus of all three Sheilds damage increasers then Doom would take 4 for hit + 4 for splash and same with the Hydra. I know in theory damage is assesed simontaniously but there is a dilema here. If one decides to click Doom first and wants to shunt damage then Doom takes his four clicks from splash (if above is true, reguardless of how #1 is answered my question pretty much stays the same so just go with me on this) and shunts 4 clicks from hit to hydra, hydra then takes 12 clicks (4 hit, 4 doom splash, 4 doom shunt) and is dead. However if one clicks hydra first hydra takes 8 (hit and splash) and is dead. Then hydra is removed from the board and Dr. Doom has no one to shunt damage to and must take all 8 clicks. How do you determine correct order? Is it one of the players decision (and if so offense or defense) or has Wiz Kids already set a precident?

3) Lets say now instead of a hydra medic Dr Doom has V. Klaw on his team and standing next to him. Once again Ultron targets both of them using 2 shild bonuses and hits. Now if #1 is correct and Doom can shunt hit damage but not splash, how is the order of this determined. (this is simular situation as #2) If we apply splash first then Doom takes 3 and loses mastermind and has to take the 3 clicks from being hit for a total of 6. But if he shunts his hit damage to Klaw first, then claw gets 9 (hit, splash and shunted) and Doom only has to take three. What is correct?

Thank you for any input and no I did not start this thread just so I could say "SHUNT". (Though it becomes funny the more you say it).

[Tsannik]

Would he be able to only shunt the hit damage and not the splash damage?
Wow... ah... Well...
Joker would be able to Mastermind all the damage from the attack he was targeted with.

Hydra would take 1 damage for being directly targetted.
Hydra would take 1 damage from the Splash from being adjacent to Joker.
Hydra would take 1 damage from Joker's Mastermind for Joker being directly targeted.
Joker would take 1 damage from the Splash from being adjacent to Hydra.

Does that explain? or more?

Is it one of the players decision (and if so offense or defense) or has Wiz Kids already set a precident?
Well, technically... damage from an Energy Explosion attack is considered simultaneous. You'd declare what powers are being used... then calculate who gets what damage, then apply that damage.

Does that explain? or more?

This is the same for question 3.... if you need me to explain more, just ask...

[Mr. Pilkington]

Wait a minute, I thought the whole deal with EE and Splash being simultaneous (only apply Invul/Tough once, etc.) meant that the entire amount taken is "shunted" over with Mastermind. Are you saying that the splash damage still gets taken by the Mastermind figure?

My take on the whole things is that the EE attack is one big pile of damage. Mastermind just changes how it is distributed. My judgement would be that Doom (not Joker :p) would send all damage that he would have taken from the EE attack to the minion beside him, and that the minion damage is all assigned in one big chunk. So the hapless Hydra medic beside him in the example will get toasted pretty hard. In the first scenario all 4 damage goes to the Hydra figure in one chunk. In the second scenario all 16(!) damage would go to the Hydra medic in one chunk (4 for being targetted + 4 slpash for Doom being targetted + the 4 Doom would take for being targetted + the 4 splash Doom would take from the Hydra being targetted).

The question regarding splash damage possibly knocking Doom off of a Mastermind click cannot happen. All damage from a single EE attack (i.e. one die roll) against a figure is applied to the figure at once. There is no timing to look at. Mastermind redirects the damage from the attack to a lesser costed adjacent friendly figure. Since EE damage is applied at once the entire amount should go to the minion and be applied at once.

But again, this is my take on it as a judge. I have not seen anything specific from WizKids regarding a case like this.

[Tsannik]

You know... I looked for something on this.... and at first couldn't really find anything. (I looked up Mastermine Explosion)

Looking up something else (Mastermind splash)
I got something different... this is actually something that HeroComplex had asked a while ago...

Mr Pilk, you'r correct... all the damage is shunted over.

So, in the first scenario... Hydra will take all four clicks of damage.

Does that help?

[TheEnigma]

Just to try and back up Mr. P:

Mastermind does say "target" for the attack, but remember that a ranged attack with multi-targets is still just a single attack. Since Doom is one of the targets of that attack, that fulfills the targetting portion of Mastermind and allows him to SHUNT! :) all of the damage he receives as a result of that attack. Sounds good to me.

Kinda like a super-powered version of 'hot potato' with the splash damage...

[Kevbo]

So what you are saying is that if Ultron had only targeted Hydra, then Doom would have taken the 4 clicks of splash, because he could not apply Mastermind to the splash damage. But since Ultron targeted both characters, Doom can shunt :) it all off on the Hydra?

[Tsannik]

Yes... that is wholly correct.