View Full Version : NBA NBA Lockout: Will we have a season?
Jerry_Damage01
10/23/2011, 10:17
So, I didn't see a thread on this and figured I'd start one. This week they had some talks but they appear to be no better, if not worse off, than when they began. Games will likely be canceled until at least Christmas but I'm starting to doubt if there will be a season at all at this point. So, thoughts on there not being an NBA season this year?
ThorKnigh83
10/26/2011, 09:53
Ther is no chance we are getting a season this year. It sucks for me cause Im a Mavs fan and since our team is a bit older it probably means this would have been our last shot at another title for quite a while.
I'm extremely disappointed in the owners.
Contingency Plan
10/26/2011, 13:41
I'm to the point that I don't even care any more. Both sides are being stupid. You just had, quite possibly, one of the best seasons of all time. Follow that up with the love/hate of the Miami Heat, the Mavs finally breaking through for a title, and what seemed to be an interesting draft.
Yet the NBA decides to throw all of that momentum away. Nice.
ThorKnigh83
10/26/2011, 14:43
I actually would say the players are far far too greedy. They want greater than 50% of the revenue. The owners had to pay for the team, they take all the real risk. The players show up and practice/play. Meanwhile if they get that greater share of the revenue they are looking for its going to be me the fan that pays for it. Do you think that the owners are going to take more money out of their pocket for it? not going to happen. So it will fall back on us the fans in cost of tickets and merchandise going up. The owners have a right to make a profit and for what they pay for these franchises they derserve to make as much as they want.
These players are getting paid better than 98% of Americans to play a game for a living. Im tired of hearing how they need more.
lensnart
10/26/2011, 15:51
If missing a season is what we need to get some parity back in the league, I think it is worth it. The players are at least 95% in the wrong here, they have a higher average salary than any of the other major North American sport but play in a league that is losing money regularly. Couple this with the fact that only 4 or 5 teams can actually afford to spend the money needed to be truly competitive and you have a major problem.
The owners need to hold out for a system where salaries are based on a 50/50 profit model. But more than this they need to have a hard cap and a system whereby all 30 teams can be competitive. This is what the NFL and the NHL did in recent years and both leagues lost all or some of a season to do it, but now both leagues have a more balanced playing field than they ever have before and it makes life a lot more interesting for the fans.
If 25 out of 30 owners are going to lose money anyway, there is no motivation for them to have a season under the current system. The players need to recognize that things are not going well, that there has to be a change, and the owners need to recognize that in order for the league to work the vast majority of teams need to be competitive and every team needs to have an equal chance of being competitive. The last thing I want to see is for this to get done too quickly and for nothing to have changed in a real way.
I actually would say the players are far far too greedy. They want greater than 50% of the revenue. The owners had to pay for the team, they take all the real risk. The players show up and practice/play. Meanwhile if they get that greater share of the revenue they are looking for its going to be me the fan that pays for it. Do you think that the owners are going to take more money out of their pocket for it? not going to happen. So it will fall back on us the fans in cost of tickets and merchandise going up. The owners have a right to make a profit and for what they pay for these franchises they derserve to make as much as they want.
These players are getting paid better than 98% of Americans to play a game for a living. Im tired of hearing how they need more.
Except that's not how it works.
The greater than 50% that is being banded about is all about basketball related income (BRI). The Players, as the product, get currently 57% of BRI. Without the players, there is no BRI, jerseys don't get sold, tickets to the events don't get sold. The players are in my opinion worth at least that much. Owners have other revenue which is completely unrelated to Basketball but counts under the NBA umbrella which the players do not get any piece of. Let's call that NBRI or Non Basketball Related Income.
The owners, for years now, have been holding cities hostage in order to get new buildings made. The cities will front, probably, 90% of the money to get a new arena built. And that gets damn near handed over to the basketball team owners. Now because of the Seattle/OKC (a travesty of enormous proportions) Sacramento and cities like that can do two things. Take it and Like it. Well I guess there is a third option lose their team. The Players don't get a dime of that take (nor should they, but the NBA pie is greater than just BRI, which is my point)
The owners of an NBA team are not taking as much of a risk as has been stated. I've seen one instance of a team not being able to be sold and they were bought by the NBA because the person wanting to buy it had some issues with other investors. If owning an NBA team incurred the cost the owners are trying to state, then teams would not be able to be sold so easily.
It's not the worker's fault when the owner's spend like drunken sailors then realize they have less in pocket than they thought they did. Even the money they say they lost (300 million) was determined by, well some creative accounting. Not illegal, but creative to state more than what was actually lost.
The players have already agreed to lower their share of the BRI to 53%. If the 300 million was an actual number this would now cut that number to ~100 million. With TV Contracts, international exposure (especially after a foreign born player led a team to the championship) and the general globalization of the game, the league would break even in a year.
The system as it's set up underpays the top players so that the mid tier and low tier player can earn more. Which is why you're starting to see more top-tier players say no enough is enough. They know that if you don't draw a line in the sand, other players in the league will get F'd.
Are they making more than me? Sure. But they're also performing a job that only they can do at the level they do. College is fine as a distraction, but college kids are not anywhere near pro level in terms of talent, or the work they have to put in so that they can stay in the league. I hate when people say "they're getting paid to play a game, I could do that." No you really couldn't. I've played against a pro player once, they're on such another level it's not even funny. Similar to the whole comics are for kids. No, not for the past 20 years or so.
The average player stays in the league for 4 to 5 years. If they have no other skills, they're middle class American with no retirement over their lifetime.
Except that's not how it works.
The greater than 50% that is being banded about is all about basketball related income (BRI). The Players, as the product, get currently 57% of BRI. Without the players, there is no BRI, jerseys don't get sold, tickets to the events don't get sold. The players are in my opinion worth at least that much. Owners have other revenue which is completely unrelated to Basketball but counts under the NBA umbrella which the players do not get any piece of. Let's call that NBRI or Non Basketball Related Income.
The owners, for years now, have been holding cities hostage in order to get new buildings made. The cities will front, probably, 90% of the money to get a new arena built. And that gets damn near handed over to the basketball team owners. Now because of the Seattle/OKC (a travesty of enormous proportions) Sacramento and cities like that can do two things. Take it and Like it. Well I guess there is a third option lose their team. The Players don't get a dime of that take (nor should they, but the NBA pie is greater than just BRI, which is my point)
The owners of an NBA team are not taking as much of a risk as has been stated. I've seen one instance of a team not being able to be sold and they were bought by the NBA because the person wanting to buy it had some issues with other investors. If owning an NBA team incurred the cost the owners are trying to state, then teams would not be able to be sold so easily.
It's not the worker's fault when the owner's spend like drunken sailors then realize they have less in pocket than they thought they did. Even the money they say they lost (300 million) was determined by, well some creative accounting. Not illegal, but creative to state more than what was actually lost.
The players have already agreed to lower their share of the BRI to 53%. If the 300 million was an actual number this would now cut that number to ~100 million. With TV Contracts, international exposure (especially after a foreign born player led a team to the championship) and the general globalization of the game, the league would break even in a year.
The system as it's set up underpays the top players so that the mid tier and low tier player can earn more. Which is why you're starting to see more top-tier players say no enough is enough. They know that if you don't draw a line in the sand, other players in the league will get F'd.
Are they making more than me? Sure. But they're also performing a job that only they can do at the level they do. College is fine as a distraction, but college kids are not anywhere near pro level in terms of talent, or the work they have to put in so that they can stay in the league. I hate when people say "they're getting paid to play a game, I could do that." No you really couldn't. I've played against a pro player once, they're on such another level it's not even funny. Similar to the whole comics are for kids. No, not for the past 20 years or so.
The average player stays in the league for 4 to 5 years. If they have no other skills, they're middle class American with no retirement over their lifetime.
All of this and more. Plus keep in mind that according to what both sides said, the owners demanded the 50/50 split agreed upon before discussing any other issues, including profit sharing to make that competitiveness happen. So basically they demanded the players give up all leverage in exchange for goodwill when this process has lacked entirely.
ThorKnigh83
10/26/2011, 17:51
Say what you want but the guys with minimum contracts make more than most any of us ever will. Also its not the owner's fault that the kids that stay for 4-5 years left college early and didn't get a degree they could use to plan for after basketball. They saw a chance at a payday and took it. Its also their fault for not doing better financial planning.
The fact is that yes they are far superior to me athletically and i could not do what they do. But there are inactive bench players there every game that likely won't see any minutes the entire season and they still make 6 times what I do.
Im not saying the owners arent greedy too. Most of them got into this to make money not because they love basketball so much they just want to win. Those people can't be expected to be anything but greedy.
If missing a season is what we need to get some parity back in the league, I think it is worth it. The players are at least 95% in the wrong here, they have a higher average salary than any of the other major North American sport but play in a league that is losing money regularly. Couple this with the fact that only 4 or 5 teams can actually afford to spend the money needed to be truly competitive and you have a major problem.
The owners need to hold out for a system where salaries are based on a 50/50 profit model. But more than this they need to have a hard cap and a system whereby all 30 teams can be competitive. This is what the NFL and the NHL did in recent years and both leagues lost all or some of a season to do it, but now both leagues have a more balanced playing field than they ever have before and it makes life a lot more interesting for the fans.
If 25 out of 30 owners are going to lose money anyway, there is no motivation for them to have a season under the current system. The players need to recognize that things are not going well, that there has to be a change, and the owners need to recognize that in order for the league to work the vast majority of teams need to be competitive and every team needs to have an equal chance of being competitive. The last thing I want to see is for this to get done too quickly and for nothing to have changed in a real way.
There was never parity in the league. Never. Two teams have approximately half the available championships.
The 'league of parity', the NFL has mostly the same teams in the playoffs (New England, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis before Peyton Manning was out for the year, Green Bay, One of the New York teams) and they alter the schedule year after year to give bad teams a better shot. Which basically accounts for your other teams. That's more of a shell game than parity. They can do that because all the teams don't play each other during the year.
MLB has little parity, Yankees and Boston beat each other up to get in.
The players are not in the wrong here, they have less people than the other leagues and globally speaking, they're the second most popular American sport, after baseball, which has no cap.
The owners are looking for guaranteed profits, which will have teams acting like Donald Sterling. Sorry, but that's not going to bring championships to a team.
malakim2099
10/27/2011, 10:25
I don't think we'll have a season, because Billy Hunter and David Stern are running the show. Really, there do need to be some changes, but the owners and the players are both belligerent and arrogant enough to think that:
1. This is not negotiations, this is WAR! (Bad move)
2. If there's no season, they can pick right up in 2012.
The problem is 1. This IS a negotiation with real issues that both sides need to address, and 2. if there's no NBA... um, there's football, college hoops, and hockey... and you can just take the historically awesome season/playoffs you just had and flush it down the drain.
Pity, really.
I don't think we'll have a season, because Billy Hunter and David Stern are running the show. Really, there do need to be some changes, but the owners and the players are both belligerent and arrogant enough to think that:
1. This is not negotiations, this is WAR! (Bad move)
2. If there's no season, they can pick right up in 2012.
The problem is 1. This IS a negotiation with real issues that both sides need to address, and 2. if there's no NBA... um, there's football, college hoops, and hockey... and you can just take the historically awesome season/playoffs you just had and flush it down the drain.
Pity, really.
The problem as I see it are that the big market owners want one thing while the small market owners want something else. That and they're not trying to negotiate. From the quotes I've seen, it's become clear to me that the owners wanted to lose games to force the players to concede more.
ThorKnigh83
10/27/2011, 12:45
Also Basketball is the 3rd most popular sport in America. Football is 1, baseball is 2 and basketball is 3. The NBA can't afford a cancelled season they will feel more wrath over that than baseball did with its strike in the mid 90's. It really took the McGwire/Sosa homerun year to get them even close to back to a good set of fans again. I just don't care for the way this whole NBA lockout is being handled from either side but I would still say the players are at far more fault than the owners who are simply trying to protect their investments.
Also Basketball is the 3rd most popular sport in America. Football is 1, baseball is 2 and basketball is 3. The NBA can't afford a cancelled season they will feel more wrath over that than baseball did with its strike in the mid 90's. It really took the McGwire/Sosa homerun year to get them even close to back to a good set of fans again. I just don't care for the way this whole NBA lockout is being handled from either side but I would still say the players are at far more fault than the owners who are simply trying to protect their investments.
If the owners would act like it's an investment sure, I might agree with you more. But no, the owners are acting like they're taking a date out to the prom. They were the ones giving Rashard Lewis 110 mil. Allan Houston 100 mil when the nearest competitor wouldn't have spent more than 60 mil over the same period to either. They're the ones that paid Joe Johnson like he's elite (i.e. Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Deron Williams type money). Carlos Boozer 80 mil? And although I love Amare 100 mil might be a little too much for him (but granted he actually played like he wanted to earn that money so I give him a pass). They want to protect their investment, then they need to start spending like they understand the game.
ThorKnigh83
10/28/2011, 12:03
I ceratinly agree there.
Jerry_Damage01
10/28/2011, 12:23
If the owners would act like it's an investment sure, I might agree with you more. But no, the owners are acting like they're taking a date out to the prom. They were the ones giving Rashard Lewis 110 mil. Allan Houston 100 mil when the nearest competitor wouldn't have spent more than 60 mil over the same period to either. They're the ones that paid Joe Johnson like he's elite (i.e. Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Deron Williams type money). Carlos Boozer 80 mil? And although I love Amare 100 mil might be a little too much for him (but granted he actually played like he wanted to earn that money so I give him a pass). They want to protect their investment, then they need to start spending like they understand the game.
Definately agree here. I'm with the Owners overall, even though I think they are mostly at fault for any money that they were losing, due to the contracts mentioned above (130 Mil for Joe Johnson....really?? :confused:). But regardless of how they got there, the situation is still the situation. I personally would like to see Mark Cuban's idea come through with there being no salary cap but if you go over it you just pay a penalty based on how much you go over.
Regardless, I think the timing of it was horrible. Coming off of one of the greatest playoffs and greatest finals in NBA history and all that momentum just thrown away. Sad really.
But my one hope that comes out of all this...and it's something I've been wanting to see ever since we saw this lockout coming, is the minimum age raised to 20 from 19. It raises the college game to whole new levels (and as a college fan the thought of kids staying for 2 years excites me to no end) but it also lets kids who are better prepared for the pro level to come into the league. It's win win win.
Definately agree here. I'm with the Owners overall, even though I think they are mostly at fault for any money that they were losing, due to the contracts mentioned above (130 Mil for Joe Johnson....really?? :confused:). But regardless of how they got there, the situation is still the situation. I personally would like to see Mark Cuban's idea come through with there being no salary cap but if you go over it you just pay a penalty based on how much you go over.
Regardless, I think the timing of it was horrible. Coming off of one of the greatest playoffs and greatest finals in NBA history and all that momentum just thrown away. Sad really.
But my one hope that comes out of all this...and it's something I've been wanting to see ever since we saw this lockout coming, is the minimum age raised to 20 from 19. It raises the college game to whole new levels (and as a college fan the thought of kids staying for 2 years excites me to no end) but it also lets kids who are better prepared for the pro level to come into the league. It's win win win.
The Cuban thing won't happen because small market teams won't go for it. The small market teams are the ones pushing the hard line. Cuban, Dolan, Buss? Those guys would do it in a heartbeat. And I think that's the biggest problem with the lockout. There are essentially 2 factions within the owners group aiming for 2 very different things.
2 years of college vs one and done now? Eh, it helps the colleges. But honestly, you're telling an 18 year old that they can't get a job in the field that they are good in. Not the best message, but not unheard of.
Jerry_Damage01
10/28/2011, 12:58
2 years of college vs one and done now? Eh, it helps the colleges. But honestly, you're telling an 18 year old that they can't get a job in the field that they are good in. Not the best message, but not unheard of.
I do udnerstand that arguement and it is a valid one. However, if I were an owner and I was going to invest millions of dollars into someone, I'd much rather invest in a kid who I've seen develop over 2 years rather than someone who has only had one year. With that second year they can develop their skills more and it's another year to mature, which I think some kids definately need. There are kids like the John Walls, Lebrons, and Kobes who could come right out of high school, but overall the rule will help more kids become better pros and that's going to be better for the league overall.
adamical
10/28/2011, 13:01
I think both the owners and the players are going to lose out by canceling the season. If they got it together and came to an agreement tomorrow, they might be able to overcome the bad feelings among fans, but if they push it much further, everyone involved will lose out significantly.
It's one of those situations where both sides are willing to suffer in order to punish the other. It's really in the best interest of both sides to get it together and it's frankly astounding that they can't come to an agreement.
Jerry_Damage01
10/28/2011, 13:10
I think both the owners and the players are going to lose out by canceling the season. If they got it together and came to an agreement tomorrow, they might be able to overcome the bad feelings among fans, but if they push it much further, everyone involved will lose out significantly.
It's one of those situations where both sides are willing to suffer in order to punish the other. It's really in the best interest of both sides to get it together and it's frankly astounding that they can't come to an agreement.
Agreed. It's sad when the mediator who helped the NFL end their lockout met with them and they were FURTHER apart at the end of it all. Of course, I just blame KG, because he came into the room and messed it all up. ;)
lensnart
10/30/2011, 05:31
There was never parity in the league. Never. Two teams have approximately half the available championships.
The 'league of parity', the NFL has mostly the same teams in the playoffs (New England, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis before Peyton Manning was out for the year, Green Bay, One of the New York teams) and they alter the schedule year after year to give bad teams a better shot. Which basically accounts for your other teams. That's more of a shell game than parity. They can do that because all the teams don't play each other during the year.
MLB has little parity, Yankees and Boston beat each other up to get in.
The players are not in the wrong here, they have less people than the other leagues and globally speaking, they're the second most popular American sport, after baseball, which has no cap.
The owners are looking for guaranteed profits, which will have teams acting like Donald Sterling. Sorry, but that's not going to bring championships to a team.
The NFL has a heck of a lot more parity now than it did before the lockout. We are starting to see how good teams can quickly fall and bad teams can rise. Just ask the Colts and the Lions. And it makes for a better more exciting season.
The MLB has no parity at all and because of that it is by far the least interesting of the 4 major sports.
The NHL is the best example of how a salary cap can change a league in a positive way. Hockey is much more exciting right now than it has been in years.
I don't know if you were arguing that the NBA shouldn't strive for parity or if you just think the NFL and NHL don't have it. But I can't see how anyone that has followed any major sport would argue against it. If the league has 30 or even 20 strong teams that is going to be better than a league with the same familiar faces in the finals every year. That just seems like a no brainer.
And the only way to do that is with a hard cap. Yes some teams will still be stronger because their head office is smarter, but at least teams will have a chance instead of ending up as little more than feeder clubs for the big boys.
As to the question of salaries, it just cpmes down to tje simple fact that you can't get something fron nothing. 24 owners are not going to keep paying players the highest average salary in american sports and them turn around and lose money year after year. They are not making money on arenas being built they are losing money spending the other 20 or 40 or whatever per cent of the cost. As far as basketball is concerned teams are losing money and yeah players certainly deserve their fair share but they need to realize that salaries have gotten out of whack and in order for anyone to make money everyone needs to make money.
Jerry_Damage01
10/30/2011, 09:14
As to the question of salaries, it just cpmes down to tje simple fact that you can't get something fron nothing. 24 owners are not going to keep paying players the highest average salary in american sports and them turn around and lose money year after year. They are not making money on arenas being built they are losing money spending the other 20 or 40 or whatever per cent of the cost. As far as basketball is concerned teams are losing money and yeah players certainly deserve their fair share but they need to realize that salaries have gotten out of whack and in order for anyone to make money everyone needs to make money.
This is one of the things that makes me side with the owners. The NBA cannot continue to do business like it was. Things have to change. The players are not going to like it, none of us would if we were in their shoes either. But if tomorrow I came into work and was told I'd be paid less in order to ensure I still had a job, I'd realize that it could have been worse and we could be out of business. Hopefully it gets resolved sooner rather than later and at least they are talking now, but if those talks break down again I think the season will be lost.
If there is no season does Cuban & the team get to keep the trophy for an extra year. :laugh:
Jerry_Damage01
10/30/2011, 10:53
If there is no season does Cuban & the team get to keep the trophy for an extra year. :laugh:
Or would that fall into the same category as those rings that Rex Ryan would have gotten in San Diego and the ones he guaranteed the last 2 years?
lensnart
11/01/2011, 16:51
I had been under the impression that the Players union are the ones fighting against the hard cap, but after reading a brief interview with Grant Hill and Steve Nash I have to wonder if it isn't actually the owners who are hamstringing themselves in this process.
I knew that Dallas, New York, Los Angeles, and Miami wanted no part of revenue sharing, but I get the feeling they are also the ones fighting to be able to continue to give players outrageous contracts.
I now kind of see the point of the NBAPA saying we can't pay for all of this you guys have to take a part of it as well. While 50/50 still sounds fair to me I don't think the question should even be 52/48 or 50/50, I think it should be what will the hard cap be set at this year and what is the minimum salary. If the NBA profits go up then the player salaries go up, just like in the NHL. Changing the split of Basketball revenues isn't going to change anything in the long term, the system needs to be changed and that is going to take sacrifices on both sides.
Salaries need to come down on the players side, but a hard cap and revenue sharing also need to be implemented on the owners side. Without all three the situation is only going to get worse.
I've said from the beginning that this is more of an owner's versus owner's issues with the Players stuck in the middle.
The Player's problem is they haven't been getting that message out
To hammer that point home look @ the Warriors who sold for 450 mil in 2010. Cohen bought them for 119 mil in 1995, made the playoffs all of once in the intervening 15 years, sold at the height of the recession, and still managed to set a record for price of an NBA franchise. That sound's like a failing model to you?
Yes, the league is having trouble finding a buyer for the Hornets who will keep the franchise in New Orleans but you can’t tell me that there aren’t buyers in Seattle or god forbid Vegas, who’d snatch them up in a heartbeat. I think the issue is the owners want to guarantee that even a poorly run franchise in an unsustainable market like New Orleans can turn a profit and would rather the players bear the burden than agree to some sort of meaningful profit sharing arrangement.
An interesting post two economist over at Grantland
(http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/8300/two-economists-explain-the-nba-lockout)
This hammers home the point to me even more that the owners are absolutely willing to wreck the season in order to get what they want. Good god, I'm starting to agree with Simmons that a rogue billionaire should start up his own league. Hell may just have frozen over.
Well tomorrow will tell us if we have a season or if the player's are going to stick to their guns and start a decertification process. Damn it, I don't want NBA 2K12 to be my basketball fix for the year. :(
Jerry_Damage01
11/13/2011, 08:15
Well tomorrow will tell us if we have a season or if the player's are going to stick to their guns and start a decertification process. Damn it, I don't want NBA 2K12 to be my basketball fix for the year. :(
How is 2K12? I got 2K11 and loved it but wasn't sure how 2K12 was about picking it up.
And on topic, I'm curious how it'll turn out tomorrow. It's not the best deal in the world, but I'm not sure how much better it'll get.
Jerry_Damage01
11/13/2011, 08:16
And, even if we don't have an NBA season, we at least have a pretty good college basketball season that just started. :)
How is 2K12? I got 2K11 and loved it but wasn't sure how 2K12 was about picking it up.
And on topic, I'm curious how it'll turn out tomorrow. It's not the best deal in the world, but I'm not sure how much better it'll get.
I love it. The chance to play as Hakeem is well worth the price of admission.
But the show stopper to me is the My Player function. It is hands down, the best I've played in any sporting game genre. You get to play in a rookie showcase to help determine your likely draft spot. Then after the game, you interview with 3 teams interested in you. From there you get drafted and have to play your way into the starting lineup. (I got drafted by my Knicks, played behind Chauney for the first 7 games. Got put into the starting lineup when Fields got injured. And now is a full fledged starter now that they traded Billups away.) Granted there are bugs in the system. They traded Melo away 15 games in and now I have Kevin Durant as my running partner. Which is a bit disconcerting when as a PG you get used to getting Melo the ball where he can do a lot with it and now having to learn how and where KD likes the ball. But I figure it's pretty much like real life, a player unless he's a superstar has very little say in who comes and goes on the team.
But having control over your player's development is awesome.
And, even if we don't have an NBA season, we at least have a pretty good college basketball season that just started. :)
I know, but it feels like a consolation prize...:disappointed:
Jerry_Damage01
11/13/2011, 08:40
I love it. The chance to play as Hakeem is well worth the price of admission.
But the show stopper to me is the My Player function. It is hands down, the best I've played in any sporting game genre. You get to play in a rookie showcase to help determine your likely draft spot. Then after the game, you interview with 3 teams interested in you. From there you get drafted and have to play your way into the starting lineup. (I got drafted by my Knicks, played behind Chauney for the first 7 games. Got put into the starting lineup when Fields got injured. And now is a full fledged starter now that they traded Billups away.) Granted there are bugs in the system. They traded Melo away 15 games in and now I have Kevin Durant as my running partner. Which is a bit disconcerting when as a PG you get used to getting Melo the ball where he can do a lot with it and now having to learn how and where KD likes the ball. But I figure it's pretty much like real life, a player unless he's a superstar has very little say in who comes and goes on the team.
But having control over your player's development is awesome.
That does sound much better than some of the previous ones that we've gotten. I hated some of the last ones that we've had. I don't think it was 2K11 but maybe one of the other games. The player creation basically had you going out to the summer league and trying to show off for scouts. I scored 30 points in my first game with 10 rebounds or so and my manager gave me a D due to my defense. :tired: This sounds pretty good though and I may actually check it out.
Jerry_Damage01
11/13/2011, 08:41
I know, but it feels like a consolation prize...:disappointed:
I'm more of a college fan than an NBA fan. I think that's mostly due to not having an NBA team anywhere close and living in a state where college basketball is the big thing. If we don't have a season I won't miss it until when the All-Star break would have been and won't really miss it until the Playoffs would have began.
That does sound much better than some of the previous ones that we've gotten. I hated some of the last ones that we've had. I don't think it was 2K11 but maybe one of the other games. The player creation basically had you going out to the summer league and trying to show off for scouts. I scored 30 points in my first game with 10 rebounds or so and my manager gave me a D due to my defense. :tired: This sounds pretty good though and I may actually check it out.
Some of that is still there. You're much better of not helping unless your matchup can't shoot.
I can see why Stern is the commish. He's masterful with the media.
NBA's current proposal (http://www.nba.com/news/Memo_to_Players_111311_3.pdf).
The framing, the timing. Say what you want about Mr. Stern, but he's great at this part of the game. Something Hunter is woefully inept at. If Billy had any media savvy, he'd have had the players' offer out there long ago.
Jerry_Damage01
11/14/2011, 18:46
And it looks like the players declined the NBA's offer and are going to decertify. :tired: Looks like our season is very quickly slipping away.
So any thoughts as to why the owners won't seriously consider revenue sharing? That combined with the concessions the players already made would have every team in the black. And going into the red with that type of plan would require blunders of epic proportions.
incredible
11/23/2011, 09:42
I could care less about pro basketball.
I hope the never play again.
But college ball is great.
I live in Syracuse New York, home of the Orange.
I'm looking foward to thier season.
I could care less about pro basketball.
I hope the never play again.
But college ball is great.
I live in Syracuse New York, home of the Orange.
I'm looking foward to thier season.
That's great, and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic we're discussing.
Jerry_Damage01
11/23/2011, 15:45
So any thoughts as to why the owners won't seriously consider revenue sharing? That combined with the concessions the players already made would have every team in the black. And going into the red with that type of plan would require blunders of epic proportions.
Not really sure. I think they are trying to squeeze everything they can out of it right now. Given the route that the players took with disolving the union, I'm doubting that we'll see a season. I'd actually take a 50 game season like we had in 99 at this point.
(I LOVED that 99 season. I was in my senior year of high school and was a fan of the Knicks back at that time (Pre Isaiah Thomas). They made the playoffs as the 8th seed and went to Game 5 against the Heat and won on a last second tip in by Alan Houston. Next round they beat the Hawks. Then in the Conference Finals they have a great series against the Pacers, ending with a great 4 point play by Larry Johnson. Then of course they went onto lose pretty badly to the Spurs, but the run overall was great.)
Jerry_Damage01
11/23/2011, 15:47
I could care less about pro basketball.
I hope the never play again.
But college ball is great.
I live in Syracuse New York, home of the Orange.
I'm looking foward to thier season.
I'm a pretty big college basketball fan as well. I live in Kentucky, home of the Wildcats, so I've been looking forward to this season for a long time.
The one thing I hope to see come out of all this (once it gets resolved) is raising the age limit to 20 to make it 2 and done instead of 1 and done. I know it's something the owners agreed on and one of the things the players were likely to give them.
incredible
11/23/2011, 18:53
That's great, and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic we're discussing.
Sure it does.
It's my opinion about the NBA lockout.
Jerry; I've thought about the age limit too.
If you remember, Anthony went to the NBA the next year after winning Syracuse's first championship.
Much too young by some peoples opinions.
Jerry_Damage01
11/23/2011, 19:03
Sure it does.
It's my opinion about the NBA lockout.
Jerry; I've thought about the age limit too.
If you remember, Anthony went to the NBA the next year after winning Syracuse's first championship.
Much too young by some peoples opinions.
I know there are playes like Lebron, Melo, and John Wall who could go straight out of high school, but those are few and far between. I really think the additional year will help more players become better prepared for the NBA, which will increase the talent in the NBA and let them have better and longer careers. If I were an owner and about to invest millions of dollars in them, I'd welcome the chance for them to get another year to mature if nothing else. I know David Stern has said he'd like to get it to 21 (3 and done) but I'm not sure I see it going that far. Two and done is the more likely of the scenario. From what I had heard reported on ESPN and things though, it's definately going to increase from 19 where it's at right now.
Contingency Plan
11/24/2011, 01:09
I know there are playes like Lebron, Melo, and John Wall who could go straight out of high school, but those are few and far between. I really think the additional year will help more players become better prepared for the NBA, which will increase the talent in the NBA and let them have better and longer careers. If I were an owner and about to invest millions of dollars in them, I'd welcome the chance for them to get another year to mature if nothing else. I know David Stern has said he'd like to get it to 21 (3 and done) but I'm not sure I see it going that far. Two and done is the more likely of the scenario. From what I had heard reported on ESPN and things though, it's definately going to increase from 19 where it's at right now.
This is why I am loving Jared Sullinger here in Columbus. He could have easily jumped ship and entered the draft, but came back to the Buckeyes. The extra year is really going to develop him. Especially now that the NBA season is in such peril.
As for the NBA, the owners won't share the revenue because they know that they have the players on the ropes. Players are just now starting to miss game checks. A lot of the lower paid guys are going to start folding, then onto the middle ground guys. Sure the Kobe's and Lebron's can hold out for a while, but the 8s or 9s on the bench are in trouble.
Skeet181
11/24/2011, 11:55
F the NBA. NCAA basketball is where its at!
incredible
11/25/2011, 19:10
On a side note, the U.S attourney general gave a search warrant for Syracuse University assistant coach Bernie Fine's house.
The Syracuse police executed the warrant about two hours ago.
The way they were searching, it looks like they think he's hiding some evidence outside his home.
Jerry_Damage01
11/26/2011, 09:39
Well, just when I thought the season was lost, it looks like we've got a deal and games will be back on Christmas.
Now to find out if they raised the age limit to 20 or not...
F the NBA. NCAA basketball is where its at!
The NCAA (Not Caring About the welfare of student Athletes) is a crock of B.S. and IMO people should stop watching college sports until there is a fundamental change in how the organization treats student athletes.
lensnart
11/26/2011, 15:03
I am glad that there will be a season but I just hope the new agreement was worth it. I would rather have lost the season and gained real change in the parity situation than have them go back too early and watch the Lakers, Miami, Boston, and Dallas take turns in the finals every year.
It will be interesting in the coming days to see what this agreement looks like, and to see who really won. I hope the fans did.
incredible
11/27/2011, 07:52
Your Christmas wish has come true.
IMHO; I think greed finally overcame greed and they realized how much money they were losing.
They= both sides.
I guess the fans win,, well kinda.
Jerry_Damage01
11/27/2011, 07:54
Your Christmas wish has come true.
IMHO; I think greed finally overcame greed and they realized how much money they were losing.
They= both sides.
I guess the fans win,, well kinda.
It's currently being reported that they did raise the age limit to 20 so it's not one and done but two and through. I think that's reason for fans to be happy in and of itself.
It's currently being reported that they did raise the age limit to 20 so it's not one and done but two and through. I think that's reason for fans to be happy in and of itself.
Well, we'll see. I hope you're right.
anybody interested in joining a fantasy league for hcrealms members only let me know, i'm trying to put one together!
lensnart
11/28/2011, 19:23
Yes I would be down for a league.
Jerry_Damage01
11/28/2011, 19:36
I think I'm already signed up for it. :)
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